I just left a 5 day psychology conference in New Mexico, with very demanding schedules. I managed to be on time to almost everything. I was on time in social and professional meetings, and juggled the schedule a bit to be in two places at once in some instances. No one would have suspected I had an ADD problem. My room-mate, who knows I have ADD, commented all week-end that I am incredibly organized, dispelling my own perception of disorganization being a major feature of my personality. And he was right. I was very very very organized and on time the whole way. In fact, by the end of the weekend he started calling me the fair-haired golden boy of the conference (my hair is quite dark brown), because I garnered quite a bit of positive response from the professional community. So that is the good news, that medication has pretty much put my ADD symptoms at a point where I can manage them quite well. I highly recommend people experiment with their doctors to find the right medications.

But that will not be the end I dare say. Then we have to grow up! Too! That takes time. And it take the courage to go into our emotional depths. the places we fear, with the help of a professional, to heal the dysfunctional beliefs and feelings we have obtained from birth to now.

I went through some very intense and revealing seminars while there. These were not didactic lectures, but active action oriented emotional challenges for psychodramatists and therapists. I'm not a therapist yet, but since it is my intent to become both, these are part of my training. I emphasize MY training, because few therapists take the additional 700 plus hours needed to be trained in the techniques of sociodrama and psychodrama.

In these sessions, I discovered there are in most people, me included, many hidden reasons for disorganization, forgetfulness, symptoms of depression, inability to get one's act together, sexual disfunction, and so on. Many people have a rough time negotiating the many factors of life while at an unconscious level one or more issues are sabotaging the possibilities of success. I went for many years believing ADD was 100% responsible for my symptoms and behaviors, it's own condition.

A little voice always asked if it could be that ADD was an amalgamation of symptoms as a response to a variety of other factors or stressors in one's life? Why not? Some people respond to stress with heart disease, others respond to stress with high blood pressure, others with insomnia, others with stomach aches, others with back pain, others with head aches, so the question is to ask why couldn't some respond to stress with ADD? ADD could be the achilles heal.

If this is true, then the question is "how much is me, and my underlying issues, and how much is my ADD?" If my diagnosis is headaches, stress related, is it the headache at fault for the stress, or the stress at fault for the headache?

I don't believe that ADD is imaginary, no more so than high blood pressure. I do believe that ADD is far from hopeless, and is a blessing in many ways, and that ADDer's can vastly improve our lives. Medication is the first step for me but only the beginning. Once stablized, then I am able to explore growth possibilities, OTHER reasons for my negative self destructive behaviors, and go beyond ADD as an explaination. Without going beyond the ADD, the ADD becomes a road block and a convenient excuse, yes, that dreaded thing that "others" accuse of us. No, I don't use ADD as an excuse intentionally. I think I use ADD as an excuse as part of the way I have referenced ADD as an unbeatable illness responsible for all my human flaws, for all the bruises I received. It has been a wonderful catch all for everything. However, it has been counter productive, though comforting, to use it this way.

ADD is a symptom, not an explaination. If we treat it as a symptom , then we can take the view that the symptom is in response to some negative distasteful stressful situation, past or present. If we assume that ADD is worse when life is getting too difficult and stressful, or when we hae unresolved stress from the past, then we can assume that locating and reducing the source of stress can have a significant healing affect on the ADD, but not without a change in beliefs. As long as I believe that ADD can only be treated with the right medicine and thats all that can be done, and ADD can be held responsible for everything wrong in my life, then my beliefs become my own roadblock to recovery and my own blanket of comfort, where no progress can take place. Beliefs must change after medicine begins to work.

One with ADD must truly become a master of oneself, and learn to make peace with the underlying issues that affect development, self perception and self-esteem.

This is no easy challenge, but a worthwhile one. No one said anything good about life was ever easy and this is one example to prove it. I didn't see a sign anywhere that said easy was the answer. I believe many people would benefit and ultimately put some of their ADD symptoms to rest, by doing 2 things, medication for stablization, and deep therapy at the level of psychodrama for resolving past pains and addressing the self perception issues. When those are both in place, progress is inevitable.

Just my opinion, sharing with you, after a wonderful 5 day experience with some of the leading professionals in the fields of psychology and psychodrama.

Jonathan

Thank you healthwiz, very insightful. How long have you been on medication? Curious.

I have wondered that about ADD too. They say in order to be diagnosed with the 'syndrome' you have to have had symptoms before age 7, but maybe life events can alter your brain and perceptions in the same way that biology can at birth. The brain is not static and who is to say that two different paths cannot ultimately lead to the same destination...and even look the same by the time they arrive?

Since 1996 I have been on various medicines, which included Welbutrin, Ritlin, Adderal, the long term versions of each of those, and now straterra. I now have a combination of straterra and welbutrin which seems to be a pretty good balance for me. However, the Welbutrin and Adderal were also very good choices. I like the Straterra best because I can hardly notice I have taken it, yet my performance is significantly improved.

Exactly, I agree misclee; who is to say there is not more than one way to arrive at the symptoms of ADD? Dr Amens www.brainplace.com lists 6 or 7 different variations of ADD.

PS Kansas is not so bad. I met a very nice psychologist at the conference, from Kansas. :)

Jon

I was actually taking Wellbutrin for quite sometime for PMS, not knowing I even had ADHD. I quit taking it several months ago because my other symtoms are finally better, but now ADD is running rampant....I definitely need something or I may just lose my mind! So, why the combination? Do you know which symptoms are helped with Wellbutrin and which with Straterra?

Misclee -- Wellbutrin is a medication (they don't which class -- actually in a class of its own -- NOT an SSRI -- NOT a seratonin reuptake inhibitor) that has been shown to decrease depression for MANY and it has been used as a treatment for ADD as well. The Strattera, which came out not too long ago, is a non stimulant drug used to treat ADD in adults mainly....all the other add drugs are stimulants which is why this one has been given so much hype....So in general depression/ADD for wellbutrin and ADD for strattera. I was on both for awhile.....and still on Wellbutrin and probably always will be...it helps amazingly with depression and pretty well with ADD...the Strattera has had different results for different people.....as far as resulotion of add symtoms goes and side effects.....For me the side effects were just too great.....(see the strattera thread)....my focussing was better but side effects just too great....Many people will do the combination...wellbutrin with something....psychitrists will trial and error with combos until one is foudn that words...wellbutrin and an add med...such as adderal or concerta or something else...

Originally posted by misclee

They say in order to be diagnosed with the 'syndrome' you have to have had symptoms before age 7, but maybe life events can alter your brain and perceptions in the same way that biology can at birth. The

Actually many AD/HD researchers are trying to change the criteria especially in females from age 7 to the onset of puberty.

Hi Jon,

It is definitely ADD if you have enough of the common symptons. I can sure see when getting together with the other ADD adults that we all had it so many of our symptoms nad habits are similar in many ways. Yet, ADD can come in variety of levels and forms and we can take on a varietly of the common traits. But all in all beng tested is important to help you really know and many people without ADD can have some of these symptoms. I guess it is tough to really know unless we get tested.

achang

My room-mate, who knows I have ADD, commented all week-end that I am incredibly organized, dispelling my own perception of disorganization being a major feature of my personality. And he was right. I was very very very organized and on time the whole way. Jonathan
Surprise! We are excellent long term planners especially when we are interested in what we are doing-like attending a conference.

the cause is the effect is the cause is the effect is the cause is the effect is the cause is the....on and on and on and on...ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Is it a disease, or is it just me? Symptoms? Or me just "choosing" to screw around?

Youth is never on your side with this, because you have no way of knowing whether you will just grow out of your scattered mostly avoidance and confusion mode in life.

At age 53 I figured it was time to quit second guessing it ten paragraphs at a time like the person who agonizingly started this thread. I have a high IQ with a history of never finishing anything and a general feeling of missing out on life, and yet there is no particularly traumatic single defining event that I can point to and say, "There, see? Told you I have ADD."

All I have are years and years and years of hesitating, not following through, blowing off people I should have hooked up with, etc. etc.

Is it ADD? Or just me being lazy and stupid and good for nothing?

I take my dexedrine and work at not thinking about it any more. Things are better, believe it or not. But that's me. What do I know.

Healthwiz what part of New Mexico were you in? Did you get to eat real Mexican Food?
By chance would you know of any behavioral modifications that would work with children ages 6-10 who have add/adhd? Thanks!

I have a question. I am looking to change my life, starting with career, but the problem is that I have been spinning my wheels for years with no movement at all. And without a better income, I can't change anything else either, most of which is bad. And because of this, I wind up holding on to the few relationships that I have left in life, because I need the support, but wonder if I would be with them if I was whole. My life is like a car stuck in the mud, and you know what happens when the driver presses on the gas pedal in an effort to get out. That is me.

Is it really possible to move forward and make real and lasting changes? I am so sad.

Is ADD an illness or an excuse? I don't feel sick, but I get extremely frustrated at some of my behavior.....particularly when I try my hardest to correct it. I know I have a responsibility to keep things in check...and I have referred to some of the things I do as symptoms also. I also take medication to help me with focus.

But for the most part, I realize that ADD is just part of me. And with it come not only some frustrations, but also some pretty amazing things. Do illnesses bring amazingly positive things? Enhanced creativity, extreme depths of caring, high energy levels, intuitiveness......only a few of the good things I associate directly with ADD.

The devil made me do it? I'm still trying to iron all of this out for myself because there are contradictions in how I personally view ADD. Rather than think of it as an excuse I tend to think of it as a reason for understanding myself. I need to be a little more gentle with myself. I still own my responsibility for goofs. I don't believe I am a victim of ADD.

~gourmet~

But for the most part, I realize that ADD is just part of me. ...

Rather than think of it as an excuse I tend to think of it as a reason for understanding myself. ...

I don't believe I am a victim of ADD.
I love these sentences. Well put, if only everyone could be so accepting of themselves.:)

Hi Sujill. Welcome newbie. :)
I know you feel sad, but I believe you can make lasting changes.
I have been in very negative places before also...spinning wheels like you said.
You can move forward and I believe you will as more understanding comes to you
about your ADD. I only found out about my ADD a few months ago and already I learned so much and feel so much better in attitude and spirit. I have used this forum as a guide and resource because you gain views from all angles of ADD.
I hope you keep reading and writing here and you will begin to heal. I feel like good things are going to begin happening for you now the more you learn.

hugs,

~gourmet~

[QUOTE=Tara]Actually many AD/HD researchers are trying to change the criteria especially in females from age 7 to the onset of puberty.[/QUOTE

I am so curious about this, my symptoms were/are so clear cut.
I was finally diagnosed at 41 years old.
I was a perfect child up until about 4th grade and then it all fell apart. Everyone blamed it on my parents divorce and “rebellion” I thought I was I was losing my mind, one day I was in accelerated classes next thing I knew I could not understand a word the teacher was saying, by the time I was 12 I could barely function in a classroom.
My brother was diagnosed at 6 or 7 but since I was already labeled the “smart one” I simply became the one who just did not apply myself and frustrated the heck out of my parents.
To get to the point, I have always wondered (even though it is so obvious) if I really have Add because of those showing symptoms by age 7 rule…
Do you have any more info on this research?


]

I take my dexedrine and work at not thinking about it any more. .yes that's me quoting myself...how vain can you get...but only to admit how silly and impossible that statement is...really now, taking dexedrine and "not thinking about it any more" is like putting a fire out with gasoline or putting a car in reverse determined to go forward...

May you live in interesting times went a Chinese proverb, many centuries ago...let's all give a hand to living in interesting times because that is what we are doing, those of us who are being diagnosed and dosed and patted on the backs instead of kicked in the butt and yelled at and failed and fired and judged and rejected and forgotten...all in less than fifteen years by my reckoning...

Where behavior begins or ends, is totally your responsibility or not your responsibility at all, is a mere "trait" or a "symptom," is a working paradigm of free will or a disease construct of predictable neurological pathways that, having fired together are now "wired" together, causes social behavior that works against your happiness and self-worth in a profound if private or invisible way, is judged severly and understood not at all, or viewed too compassionately and not as the mirror of immorality that it clearly is....these are questions that will always be debated, and never be resolved....

Behavior, in extreme disease mode, has never historically been recognized as such. We don't "treat" such people. We imprison most of them. Criminal behavior is convicted on the basis of "he knew right from wrong." But did he?

Epileptics used to be put to death for satanic possession.

The more anti-social the mental illness, the heavier the penalty.

We now live in a time, despite Republicans being in such alarming numbers where the votes count, where "gray areas" are being recognized for what they are...namely, gray areas.

It's possible now for me to consider the possibility that I did not "choose" my personality traits, that "free will" is largely a delusional myth propagated by those that believe they "freely" became successful and powerful and those of us who didn't just "gave the finger" to society, that I have a chemically ingrained personality "base" that works against my pursuit of happiness, and that therapy and certain drugs now available may help me.

Nobody knows. That's what I keep telling myself. Nobody knows.

These are interesting times, because twenty years ago, you'd have nothing but some Tony Robbins style seminar giving you a glow for a week after blowing a few grand on it, only to return to your same old neurologically wired ruts, and blaming yourself for failing to do Tony's "system."

I love the gray area. It's my new home. Because nobody knows anything. Nobody knows why we are what we are. Only you know when the unhappiness and the feeling of helplessness crosses the line and it's time to quit beating yourself up and letting go of other people's ignorant opinions and just giving something a try....

Oooh, I like this thread!!

I do not know if it is my late diagnosis or what.
After wallowing in my diagnosis for about a year now, I am in the midst of a mini-crises because I can’t keep up the energy to continue making a big deal of it. The meds aren’t magic; if I want to keep moving forward guess what? Just like prediagnosis it is all up to me.
I am fortunate, my brain may melt down a bit if it is not kept heated up, but all in all it is a good one.
I am on “the list” to start some counseling with a Dr.. who specializes in women w/ ADD. And I am really looking forward to getting started to the “work”
It is interesting to ponder what strengths I’ve developed because of finding out so late in life.

This is a very interesting thread, like how much is really me, I have suffered with allergies, mold-grass, pollen, and severe asthma-and have always had a low self esteem thing, trying to earn affection, etc...but my mother says I was the most outgoing, kind of a brat kid until I started Kindergarten, something must have scared me to death, there, because now, and ever since I have been withdrawn, shy, very different than before that-and my school life was horrible-which is why I homeschooled, so this is all very interesting to me as well about the 7 years old thing. I was told because of my asthma and allergies and all the medicine was maybe why I was so lethargic and low energy, etc....but I just wonder, and like you too, I do not want to use ADD as an excuse, quite the contrary I want to use it as a stepping stone to get ON with it, and go beyond where I never could before-now that I know, knowledge is power, and allows you to go the next step. It is a journey we are on, little by little we will get to be where we are supposed to be. Much luck to you all on the path................LORI

Hey, what I said back there, man, was I slingin it or what? I don't know which end of me is up. Gotta get off this Samuel Taylor Coleridge "Kubla Khan" kick with the posts...talk normal again...

Mr. Brooker,
When you're on, you're on. Seize the moment.

Right on homey, I feel you dog, my hand is in the air to slap some high fivin skin baby...hey, this m$#$%%$kin caucasian is a conversatin fool, owwwkay? Word. I'm okay, you're okay. I am the walrus, you are the walrus, koookookachew....

Huh? No I'm not talking to myself, I'm on the phone...what? Yeah I always have my cell phone with me, even when I'm here in the bathroom....

I ride a bike. I swear I'm growing up backwards. My job is clerical. I am the only man in an office of women. Three women. My boss, Susan, is mid-50s but hot for her age. Socorro is originally from Mexico City, maybe around 60. Laura fills out the ranks as bookkeeper, early 60s. At age 53 I am the baby in the group. Everyone thinks it's cute I ride a bike to work. I only live two miles away. I'm fit. I feel good. Susan owns the the company. Socorro has been there 17 years and makes the same money I do. I've been there 7 months. Laura has been there two years and makes more than Socorro and I. Susan just gives Laura bills and says, "Pay these." She doesn't really "make" money. She simply presents bills to Laura and they go away. It's a burglar alarm company that was started by Susan's father 50 years ago. My number one activity in this office is canceling accounts. Our customers generally come to hate us, sooner or later. I've been taking Dexedrine all the while and this is a job that would discombobulate anyone, I don't care if you have the attention span of a Hindi contortionist. I keep multiple screens of oddball internet searches running all the time, neatly tucked behind Excel or Outlook. And I can minimize a screen in a millisecond with the blankest poker face you ever saw.

Now you may be asking yourself, what does this have to do with this thread? I'm asking myself the same thing. To be honest, I am just now pulling it together. I feel relevance out there, just below the horizon, about edge into view and burn across the plain of my befuddled brain like the cold fire of a perfect sunrise.

Did I choose this job? Or did I "end up" here as a result of the non-hyperactive ADD decision making style I have perfected over the years? Decision making that is more similar to the age-old process of elimination. Whereby the list you make has the appearance of a "To Do" list, but in practice, as the hours elapse and the day is suddenly, mercifully, coming to an uneventful close, turns out in reality to be a "Don't Do" list, or "Didn't Want to" list, or something along those lines.

Today my bike figured into the work day in surprisingly funny ways. Everybody else there has a car. Yet increasingly, my bike has become the centerpiece of my value to the company. Susan, as the lunch hour approached, discussed where she and the other two might order something. They were sick of Subway and mexican food. Suddenly Laura produced a sheet with coupons for a pizza place down the road. There was a special on lasagna. I was left out of this discussion, until the order was place. Susan said, "Doug, hey, how about riding the bike down and picking it up...parking is such a hassle...." I didn't feel like lasagna, but my bike predetermined the course of events.

Or did I choose to pick up the lasagna? I took a half a dexedrine, and thought about it.

Later, under the flimsy pretext that Socorro had a birthday in the middle of a two week vacation she just came back from, and some sort of celebration was overdue, Susan called a Gourmet Cheesecake place and ordered us all expensive pieces of cheesecake. Again, I'm looking up from a file, or furtively reading a post on this forum, in any case not exactly connected...and Susan said, "Doug, how about going to pick this up? Oh and drop this mail off while you're out there..." Then turned to Laura, and said, "So yeah, I told him, the twerp, 'Don't you dare say that to me again. I will not tolerate the mention of Love Handles in this house in reference to my body. I don't have them, in the first place, and if I did, which I don't, I wouldn't give them a name. ...Then he smiles and actually thinks he's going to get back in bed and pick up where he left off...' Laura said, "Twerp? Moron is more like it..."

I rode the bike to the cheesecake place. Everything weird I was paying attention to, nothing of importance, nothing that was going to evolve into "accomplishment" passed through the fabled blood/brain barrier. Inside this cheesecake place, where I had never been before, a magic markered sign said, "Excuse the remodeling." The guy at the counter was involved in a long discussion on the phone. It was hot in here, the drywall wasn't painted, there was one wrought iron table and a couple of uncomfortable looking chairs. I sat down and stared at the bare walls. A glass display case had a few cheesecakes on racks with slices gone.

He was still on the phone when a pretty girl walked in. I never know what to do when a pretty girl is in front of me. A feeling of "checkmate" closes over me, like, don't notice her, don't acknowledge her, her prettiness, her attractiveness, her she-ness, or that it has meaning to you, because that's all over, has always been over, from the beginning, even though it never got started, yes it's over, ended as it began, at age twenty, and begins its end again, at age 53, my ADD hesitancy and clammy indecision rendering stillborn the ability to act on any semblance of that instinct that wants to create more life, that messy business, no, don't look at her....

He was still on the phone when she decided to sit at the table with me. The only table in this hot room! She went to open her cell phone and it fell clattering to the floor. She recovered quickly and picking it up, looked at me and said, "Oh don't worry I've dropped this fifty times, more than fifty times." She was putting it her face and smiling at me. I just looked at her.

Now there were two of them on the phone, and I sat there, waiting. The pretty girl said, "Oh Karla, hey it's me, yeah, hey listen, like go in the other room...yeah the messy...yeah...yeah in the corner where that dead plant is in the big pot? By the window that won't shut? ...Yeah I have a this little make-up thingy, like a little purse?....Yeah well I hid a bunch of money in there and....Yeah from that guy who was, well you know I mean why go into detail....Anyway, I don't want you know who to find it....Oh put it in my big brown bag, in this zipper thing on the side, and....oh is that your phone? I thought it was me....Okay no biggie....Nah jus piggin out....cool, later."

She folded the phone and put it in a little holster. I let her go ahead of me. Eventually I made it back with the cheesecake. That was over 8 hours ago. I'm still thinking about that phone conversation. I can't think of anything else. I wonder why??

I run into this thought a lot especially when talking to other ADDers on forums or in chatrooms. While I do see a lot of similarity I also so very big differences between myself and everyone else. I read some of the problems people are having and think I prob shouldn't respond because I have no idea what they are talking about, why they feel the way they do, and why the issue is such a problem. Emotions in general are amazingly hard for me to understand so I tend to steer clear of relationship or insecurity conversations because it makes no sense to me. Might as well be talking in another language :D.

Anyway during those conversations I always think well I don't understand this stuff or agree with what their saying so I guess that part of my personality isn't ADHD. Then the question becomes is it a result of one of my other disorders or is it just me.

This article is very helpful. I live in a country where ADD is almost unheard of, so bye bye for taking medication. I guess I have to somehow make full use of knowledge that I gained in this forum to improve myself. I have decided not to get married for fear of hurting my wife and subsequently my children. It has been a week since the last time i did some work. Can get with it due to pass performance when the work is stimulating and now the same work is dread.

[QUOTE=Tara]Actually many AD/HD researchers are trying to change the criteria especially in females from age 7 to the onset of puberty.[/QUOTE

I am so curious about this, my symptoms were/are so clear cut.
I was finally diagnosed at 41 years old.
I was a perfect child up until about 4th grade and then it all fell apart. Everyone blamed it on my parents divorce and “rebellion” I thought I was I was losing my mind, one day I was in accelerated classes next thing I knew I could not understand a word the teacher was saying, by the time I was 12 I could barely function in a classroom.
My brother was diagnosed at 6 or 7 but since I was already labeled the “smart one” I simply became the one who just did not apply myself and frustrated the heck out of my parents.
To get to the point, I have always wondered (even though it is so obvious) if I really have Add because of those showing symptoms by age 7 rule…
Do you have any more info on this research?


]


I also had a brother who was diagnosed with having ADD. He was seven I was six. My parents always pointed to me and said "look at how your little sister is doing things and maybe she can teach you,". Everyone thought I was the smart one until I got to fifth grade and life threw a bunch of distractions at me. By the time I got to high school my grades were falling apart and I barely got into the college I wanted.
Meanwhile my parents, were rewarding my brother and giving him extra attention since his doctor said he needed the support. My mom said that i cared too much about my social life and my Dad started calling me an idiot. In reality I had a 10 oclock curfew and only had 2 friends that I hung out with. WHen I got to college and moved out on my own I turned to drugs to self medicate myself. This made things worse and cause me to harm many of the people around me with my words and the drugs actually magnified my forgetfulness.

Today I have been drug free for a year but was only recently diagnosed with ADD. When I read about ADD and I think about my past I wish only that my parents had considered me for a candidate as well. My boyfriend also has ADD and being diagnosed myself has made me understand his behavior so much more. I wish that there was more information readily available to the public about ADD. My whole life has gone in a direction that I can't honestly say that I approve. It's difficult to let go of the past and to start from the present. It's also hard not to resent my brother who now is super successful and happily married and still a favorite of my parents. He's in a band with my other brother and I dont speak to either of them.

With or without medications, I am ALWAYS early for my appointments. In fact, it is quite annoying. I am a half hour early sometimes. So, it is possible with ADHD/ADD.