View Full Version : Viability of desoxyn


MrDerp
06-23-11, 10:37 PM
Hey. I was wondering about the viability of desoxyn vs other meds. I was started on adderall, it was good, helped me focus. Gave me horribly dry mouth w/ minor insomnia though. Next tried Focalin. Never again. The focalin gave me personally, more side effects than the adderall, and in worse volume too. I've heard great things about d-amph and d-meth, so I was wondering about the viability of those compared to say adderall, with the stigma behind them.

trishcan
06-23-11, 11:01 PM
If your biggest side effects on Adderall were dry mouth and slight insomnia, I think it would make more sense to return to Adderall than it would to make the leap to Desoxyn. I don't know much about how Desoxyn compares to other stimulants, but I imagine it would likely increase your side effects and provide similar therapeutic effects if I had to guess.

BR549
06-23-11, 11:07 PM
Well, you've only tried two stimulants? Desoxyn is in most cases a last resort attempt when all other stimulants fail. Getting a doctor to prescribe it and finding a pharmacy that carries it might prove difficult.

A lot of people who tolerate amphetamines don't tolerate methylphenidate and the other way round. Some people do fine with both. I'd try Dexedrine or Vyvanse next. Adderall can cause insomnia, but that usually goes away, making sure you take it early enough helps too. Dry mouth is bad, but will be bad on any amphetamine. I would imagine Desoxyn would be worse.

MrDerp
06-23-11, 11:18 PM
Yeah. Vyvanse has actually been the next thing I was going to check with my doctor about. I'm just trying to research as much as I can about the different avenues of treatment. So far the only meds that I absolutely cannot stand are the methylphenidate family. Ugh, just never again. I'm thinking if vyvanse and adderall prove ineffective in the long term, I will check on desoxyn or dex. It sounds like they are basically more effective versions of similar chemicals (dex being the d-isomer, and desoxyn being methylamphetamine)

relax21
06-23-11, 11:22 PM
I was started on adderall, it was good, helped me focus. Gave me horribly dry mouth w/ minor insomnia though.

As trishcan stated you should probably stick with Adderall because dry mouth and insomnia are both "common side effects" of Adderall and as with any psychostimulant for that matter, Desoxyn included. Desoxyn is highly effective for treating the symptoms of ADHD, just as Adderall, Dexedrine and Ritalin are. However, Desoxyn is rarely prescribed because it holds a high abuse, dependence, and addiction potential slightly greater than amphetamine. Also, amphetamine (Adderall or Dexedrine) is just as effective, if not more, for treating ADHD.

No stimulant medication has been proven to be better or more viable than another stimulant medication with all things considered.

There is no evidence that Desoxyns action differs from that of amphetamine (Adderall or Dexedrine) in any way except that the action on the cardiovascular system is somewhat less intense and the action on the central nervous system is somewhat more intense. This drug is probably abused more than any other of the group.

I have nothing against Desoxyn for the treatment of ADHD, but you should be more open to other treatments first. There is no magic pill for ADHD, unfortunately.

twinch42085
06-26-11, 04:06 PM
In my experience being prescribed stimulants I can compare the amphetamine class but have no experience with methylphenidates.

Adderall tends to be prescribed more amongst the three different amphetamine stimulants. It creates an elevated mood unlike that of d-amp and d-meth. This is due to the small percentage of l-amp that makes up Adderall.

I agree that Adderall does cause dry mouth and insomnia. I usually chew on bubble gum or a piece of hard candy so that I can keep my saliva glands in action.

d-amp (Dexedrine) is what I take and it provides a smoother ride throughout the day with less side effects. I don't experience any elevation of mood like that of Adderall, which in my opinion I like better because I feel that I am not in control of "ME" when taking Adderall.

d-meth (Desoxyn) a.k.a. "Dextro-Methamphetamine" did not help my ADHD to any extent. I was prescribed 20mg daily. Yes, there were far less side effects than that of Adderall/Dexedrine but it was if I had taken nothing but a sugar pill.

Desoxyn actually made me sleepy. The medicine itself is more viable due to it's benefits at lower milligrams and it's duration of effect.

I wouldn't go to Desoxyn unless absolutely needed to after exhausting all other means of success.

relax21
06-27-11, 12:51 PM
Desoxyn did not help my ADHD to any extent. I was prescribed 20mg daily. Yes, there were far less side effects than that of Adderall/Dexedrine but it was if I had taken nothing but a sugar pill.

I'm curious to why you didn't try higher doses of Desoxyn? 20 mg daily is a moderate dose. You stated in earlier posts that you are prescribed 40 mg daily of Dexedrine (that's the maximum dose for ADHD). If you're taking that much Dexedrine you would probably get a more beneficial response to 30-40 mg daily, in two divided doses, of Desoxyn.

For ADHD treatment, Desoxyn usually runs dose per dose roughly the same as Dexedrine; 5mg - 40mg daily. For treatment of Narcolepsy, dosages of Desoxyn and Dexedrine are similar too; 5mg - 60mg daily.

Desoxyn actually made me sleepy. The medicine itself is more viable due to it's benefits at lower milligrams and it's duration of effect.

In my experience, the sleepy-effect of Desoxyn went away after about a month, (took me about 2 weeks to titrate to the correct dose). The main beneficial effects took time to take full effect and it took time and patience to gauge what I was benefitting from by using Desoxyn.

After a couple weeks, after finding the correct dose, respectively, I found that I was much less hyperactive, much less distractible, much more able to follow through on tasks, more able to listen to others rather than interrupting, much less impulsive, and more focused in general.

In regards to side effects, compared to other stimulants, I realized that I was experiencing far fewer side effects. Desoxyn does carry side effects (all drugs do) but the side effects tend to be less pronounced to a degree. It's one of the most tolerable medications used for ADHD.

twinch42085
06-28-11, 03:39 AM
I'm curious to why you didn't try higher doses of Desoxyn? 20 mg daily is a moderate dose. You stated in earlier posts that you are prescribed 40 mg daily of Dexedrine (that's the maximum dose for ADHD). If you're taking that much Dexedrine you would probably get a more beneficial response to 30-40 mg daily, in two divided doses, of Desoxyn.

For ADHD treatment, Desoxyn usually runs dose per dose roughly the same as Dexedrine; 5mg - 40mg daily. For treatment of Narcolepsy, dosages of Desoxyn and Dexedrine are similar too; 5mg - 60mg daily.



In my experience, the sleepy-effect of Desoxyn went away after about a month, (took me about 2 weeks to titrate to the correct dose). The main beneficial effects took time to take full effect and it took time and patience to gauge what I was benefitting from by using Desoxyn.

After a couple weeks, after finding the correct dose, respectively, I found that I was much less hyperactive, much less distractible, much more able to follow through on tasks, more able to listen to others rather than interrupting, much less impulsive, and more focused in general.

In regards to side effects, compared to other stimulants, I realized that I was experiencing far fewer side effects. Desoxyn does carry side effects (all drugs do) but the side effects tend to be less pronounced to a degree. It's one of the most tolerable medications used for ADHD.
20mg was too much for me. The two common side effects that would not go away was the insomnia and loss of appetite. When compared with the 40mg of Dexedrine I will say that personally I have the least side effects with Dexedrine when comparing to Adderall/Desoxyn.

Desoxyn just isn't for me.

Rise Against
07-02-11, 08:53 PM
Hey. I was wondering about the viability of desoxyn vs other meds. I was started on adderall, it was good, helped me focus. Gave me horribly dry mouth w/ minor insomnia though. Next tried Focalin. Never again. The focalin gave me personally, more side effects than the adderall, and in worse volume too. I've heard great things about d-amph and d-meth, so I was wondering about the viability of those compared to say adderall, with the stigma behind them.

From what I've heard, it seems highly unlikely that you'll ever get a Desoxyn prescription unless the other stimulants you've tried have proven ineffective or had too many side effects. Of course, it also depends on your doctor's mentality.

I finally got up the courage to ask my psychiatrist to give Desoxyn a try. She hadn't heard of it, but looked it up and wrote me a prescription without hesitation. On my next appointment, I expressed my surprise at her willingness to prescribe this medication, even asking her, "Do you know that Desoxyn is dex-methamphetamine?" Her reply was, "So? You have ADHD." Clearly my psychiatrist believes that methamphetamine can have therapeutic value. But many doctors don't share the same views, as I have read many posts claiming that getting a Desoxyn prescription is next to impossible. :(

Another major factor in getting the prescription is whether or not your doctor trusts you. My psychiatrist was aware that I've abused drugs in the past (back in high school), although I strictly avoided methamphetamine, but saw that I legitimately just wanted to find an effective medication.

I have also read that Desoxyn is usually a last resort. And I've been through most of the ADHD stimulants like Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, and Focalin. They all proved ineffective, or at least not effective enough. So being through a number of stimulants previously will definitely strengthen your argument to try Desoxyn.

If your current doctor is open-minded and you're not liking your current prescription, you should definitely consider asking to give Desoxyn a try. I couldn't recommend it enough! :)

This is only my 4th week on Desoxyn, but there are a few notable and surprising differences between d-methamphetamine (Desoxyn) and the other amphetamine-based stimulants, such as Adderall.

First of all, it isn't as stimulating as Adderall, Dexedrine, etc. So if you're looking for the motivational "kick in the pants" effect of Adderall, you likely won't find it with Desoxyn. But there are positives to the lesser degree of stimulation. I find it much easier to get to sleep than with the other stimulants. Also, (and this is a big positive for me), I don't feel like I'm on a drug! :D It does not feel like a drug is forcing me to do anything. Desoxyn provides me with pure focus so that I can choose what to do and what to work on. Desoxyn's relative lack of stimulation also results in little, if any, PNS effects. No rapid heartbeat, no increased anxiety, and I don't feel jittery. I just feel calm and in "the zone." :cool: Studying for my college classes and staying on-task when it comes to chores has never been easier!

And secondly, Desoxyn lasts a long time! I first started taking 5mg at 8am, and when I'd take my second 5mg at 2:30pm, the first pill was clearly still in effect. I am now taking 5mg 3x a day and plan to slowly increase the dose to achieve the maximum benefit.

I can honestly say that Desoxyn is the first ADHD medication that I have no complaints about. If you get the chance, it's definitely worth a try! :D

salleh
07-03-11, 01:07 AM
BY the way, someone just said that 40 mg is the maximum dose of dex.......this is so NOT TRUE ......in the first place, the maximum dosage for CHILDREN is 60mg, according to the federal gov't and it is not, I repeat, not unusual for adults to need more than that due to the fact .....


they're adults, for one and they have a lot longer day that the school day of a child, just to name 2 of the valid reasons that adults can often be taking more than 40 or 60 mg a day .........


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there is NO specific recommended dose for adults with ADD/ADHD....none ........nada, zero, zip, zilch, nothing, not no how, not no where...( ok that is a little over the top, it is the US that I am speaking of, I cannot say for other countries.....got a little carried away)



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and I have spoken to my pdoc, and the pharmasists in at least 5 stores about it .......

please do not tell people that 40 mg is the max , it is not, and what's more someone might read that and think ....oh gosh I take 60 mg a day .....what's wrong with me ?



it is up to the doctor to prescribe how much is nessessary for each individual patient......as each person has their own particular reaction to meds like Dextroamphetamine .......and you are in grave error by stating 40 mg as a maximum dose per day .....



where on earth did you get such erroneous information ??????.....

relax21
07-04-11, 12:28 PM
DEXTROAMPHETAMINE SULFATE

WARNING
AMPHETAMINES HAVE A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE. ADMINISTRATION OF AMPHETAMINES FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME MAY LEAD TO DRUG DEPENDENCE AND MUST BE AVOIDED. PARTICULAR ATTENTION SHOULD BE PAID TO THE POSSIBILITY OF SUBJECTS OBTAINING AMPHETAMINES FOR NON-THERAPEUTIC USE OR DISTRIBUTION TO OTHERS, AND THE DRUGS SHOULD BE PRESCRIBED OR DISPENSED SPARINGLY.

"...start with 5 mg once or twice daily; daily dosage may be raised in increments of 5 mg at weekly intervals until optimal response is obtained. Only in rare cases will it be necessary to exceed a total of 40 mg per day.
Give first does on awakening: additional doses (1 or 2) at intervals of 4 to 6 hours.
Where possible, drug administration should be interrupted occasionally to determine if there is a recurrence of behavioral symptoms sufficient to require continued therapy."

(Children and Adults respond to the same ADHD dosing regulations.)

Adults
Sudden deaths, stroke, and myocardial infarction have been reported in adults taking stimulant drugs at usual doses for ADHD. Although the role of stimulants in these adult cases is also unknown, adults have a greater likelihood than children of having serious structural cardiac abnormalities, cardiomyophathy, serious heart rhythm abnormalities, coronary artery disease, and other serious cardiac problems.

Salleh, you are right that some people require higher doses than 40 mg a day but the majority do not. Now, it also depends on how many times a person redoses the drug. but the FDAs 40 mg daily maximum recommended dose is basically two divided 20 mg doses, so technically you could take a third or a fourth 20 mg dose and still be in the maximum recommended ADHD dosing limit at 80 mg daily. Also, some patients need higher doses than others, but it's very rare.

Basically to avoid being drug dependent you should stay at the lowest possible effective dose and should only dose twice, at most in one day. Also, stay at the same dose and dose at similar times every day. Drug holidays should be taken once and awhile with your doctors knowledge. Tolerance shouldn't be an issue at therapeutic doses, unless a patient begins to become dependent on the drug after using it for a long period of time or at high doses.

salleh
07-05-11, 12:43 AM
http://adultadd.info/treatment/stimulant-medications/broad-issues/dosing/


60 mg a day never really worked for me ......and then I found this site, and saw my pdoc ......no problem .....now I have the dosage I need, but according to their research, 23 % of the patients needed more than 60 mg........

the ones who needed 140 mg and up to 210mg were all over 200 pounds though....


but the important thing is that dosage is something that is between the doctor and you, since according to Dr. Schwartz, there really aren't any limits mandated by the gov't ......


and yes of course you want to take the smallest amount nessessary, but if that amount is 90mg. then it's 90mg .....and no one should be looking down on you for doing so ......

relax21
07-05-11, 05:39 PM
...and you are in grave error by stating 40 mg as a maximum dose per day .....
where on earth did you get such erroneous information ??????.....

Just to clarify to you and others, the 40 mg daily maximum recommended dose is what the FDA approves for ADHD, 60 mg daily maximum recommended dose is what the FDA approves for Narcolepsy when using dextroamphetamine sulfate.

The FDA's maximum recommended dosage is more of a guideline than anything else. If you read between the lines, it says very clearly that "only in rare cases will it be necessary to exceed a total of 40 mg per day".

Also, salleh, if you're not aware, dextroamphetamine sulfate and methamphetamine hydrochloride are not approved ADHD medications for adults.

Approved stimulant medications to treat ADHD symptoms in adults include:
Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse)
Methylphenidate ER (Concerta)
Dexmethylphenidate ER (Focalin XR)
Mixed amphetamine salts ER (Adderall XR)

and yes of course you want to take the smallest amount nessessary, but if that amount is 90mg. then it's 90mg .....and no one should be looking down on you for doing so ......

It seems like, salleh, that you are only really stating your own opinion with using off-label doses of Dexedrine and you are unnecessarily defensive. Nobody is looking down on you for taking a high dose of Dexedrine, like you said that is between you and your doctor to decide. In rare cases, it may be found beneficial to use off-label doses and drugs to treat ADHD, but there may be risks in doing so.

Salleh, everything I've stated is in the prescribing information approved by the FDA (it is not my opinion), I suggest you take the time to look through it.

GBK
07-13-11, 10:09 PM
Well, you've only tried two stimulants?

Other than Desoxyn, there are only two stimulants available - methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine (both in various forms, XR, IR, Vyvanse, Adderall, Concerta, Methylin, etc) but it's all the same two slightly modified and renamed. I've been struggling for years to cope with my issue with developing tolerance to both methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine, and may now have to switch to Desoxyn as a last resort. The fact that we only have 2 practical AD/HD medications in the US is truly sad, and a real problem for people like myself who develop tolerance quickly to central nervous system stimulants. Any suggestions? Believe me I'd love to hear them!