View Full Version : Diary - Zero salt, sugar, starch diet


SB_UK
07-01-11, 01:36 PM
from
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1124207&postcount=315

Day 1 - 1st July 2011

Starting at midday

Lunch
1 - 1 apple + 1 orange
1 - 1 tin of sardines in olive oil (drained) - for omega-3

Dinner
2 - channa dal + a carton of tomatoes + onions + garlic + black pepper (~ 3 tbsp)
2 - non-starchy vegetables fried in some (not much) olive oil + black pepper (~ 3 tbsp)

+ tabasco sauce (drops)

vegetables - chinese cabbage + standard cabbage + mixed vegetables (pre-packed) + bean sprouts + mange tout

-*-

Since beginning dietary change (this midday!) - have no pain.

Generally - hands and feet are the sites of inflammatory reaction.

Note - removing all salt makes food relatively difficult to eat.

-*-

Now to try repeating preparation 2 for breakfast, lunch and dinner for the next week (and forever after - if it works) - with only preparation 1 allowed in between.

Note - will supplement with 1 spoon of crushed flax seed from tomorrow (Barliman).

-*-

Would adore a sauce if such a thing exists, which fits the criteria ?

Lunacie
07-01-11, 01:46 PM
I'm glad to hear this is helping, but I wonder which part of this new diet is most effective. We do need some salt after all. There are other seasonings that can be used in place of salt, but it takes some getting used to missing that salt on our taste buds. One of my favorite alternative seasonings fresh ground black pepper.

ginniebean
07-01-11, 02:01 PM
For me it is the elimination of suger that most helps. High protein diet 80% protein 20% carb for two weeks eliminates joint pain.

I haven't been so radical as to eliminate all salt but my intake is very reduced.

Lunacie
07-01-11, 02:08 PM
Does it make a difference what the cause of the joint pain is? I've had very little joint or trigger pain since I began taking Omega 3 and eliminated the major cause of stress in my life (my ex).

ginniebean
07-01-11, 02:10 PM
I don't know, I know that omega 3 did nothing for me.

SB_UK
07-02-11, 03:36 AM
Day 1 pm

No joint pain (background fizzing)
Sneezing fit at night.

Day 2 am

water + 3 tsp of preparation 2 with paprika and not tabasco.
No joint pain (a little background fizzing).
Allergy, perhaps a bit worse than usual.

-*-

Interesting that I appear to be trying to mount an aversion reaction to food.

Can't work out whether it's a drastically reduced food intake and/or altered diet which is having an effect.

Exactly like Ginnie - am absolutely positive (because of the joint pain (inflammatory reaction) immediately after eating the smallest amount of sugar) that complete elimination of sugar was the single most significant change, required.

The 3 most notable osmolar solutes (stress) are salt + sugar + glucose [hyperglycaemic agent].

Hmmm... ... + urea

http://www.acpmedicine.com/acp/chapters/ch1001.htm
P<sub>osm</sub>@ 2 × plasma [Na<sup>+</sup>] + [glucose]/18 + BUN/2.8

BUN - blood urea nitrogen
(protein metabolism).

-*-

I think that we need to reduce drastically sugar, hyperglycaemic agent, salt and protein -
- to eliminate the osmotic pressure/stress on our internal milieu.

-*-

Too funny - the secret to health, to be found taught to children at age 14 or so, in school.

SB_UK
07-02-11, 04:36 AM
Maths teacher (Mr Dawson) to a seemingly sleeping student (of age 13 or so) - using his maths book as a pillow.
What are you doing boy ! Resting your head on top of the book and hoping that the information'll find its way in, by osmosis.A winning line.

Kunga Dorji
07-02-11, 07:56 AM
Hi SB- you might find this guy's work interesting:
http://raypeat.com/articles/
I'm not entirely sure that you are on the right track re salt.
He does have some very interesting comments re osmolality and efficiency of cellular function.
It is very dense though- and requires quite some ploughing through.

SB_UK
07-02-11, 11:23 AM
Skimming - first scan

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/calcium.shtml
1. Increase calcium, magnesium, sodium
(milk+leafy veg - good)
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cholesterol-longevity.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsuitablefats.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml
2. Cholesterol good not bad, PUFAs eg w-3 oxidize with cooking - bad
http://www.natural-cancer-cures.com/healthy-cooking-oils.html
3. Saturated fat advocated for cooking
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml
4.Caloric restriction and gelatin good; tryptopan and cysteine bad !!
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml
5.Starch - very bad; fructose good
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml
6.Milk,cheese - good; stress,gluten - bad
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/salt.shtml
7.Salt - good

-*-

Changing diet to use butter for cooking, to include salt, to eliminate olive oil for cooking, to include plain yoghourt.

-*-

Cooking with saturated fat (small amount), to flavour with salt, to eliminate unsaturated fatty acids - particularly from cooking and to include milk protein.

SB_UK
07-02-11, 11:29 AM
Left with the feel from skimming those articles - that optimising mitochondrial function (particularly uncoupling) is good and that stress is bad.

SB_UK
07-02-11, 02:37 PM
Day 2 pm
water
apple juice diluted 1:5 with water
apples + kiwi fruit + mango
decaffeinated green tea
preparation 2 with soy sauce (containing salt) + tabasco.
plain yoghourt
cheese (contains salt)

So - now eliminating gluten, grains, sucrose, starch.
Permitting - low levels of salt, plain yoghourt, cheese, low level of olive oil

To attempt to prepare stir fry with ghee (saturated fat) - and see how it tastes.
To add paneer (cheese) to channa dal.
To permit egg (ref. Peat's advice on cholesterol).

The fruit, vegetable, chicken and cow -
- a more than workable scheme for all people to enjoy.

(ref. qinkin,polyface farm).

All inflammatory foods listed here (http://theconsciouslife.com/top-10-inflammatory-foods-to-avoid.htm) removed from diet.

-*-

So far ... ... ...

Results - inflammation reduced to close to zero, G.I.T. function restored, no allergy tonight.

Thoughts - itsa' definitely food ... ... ... that sucrose, hyperglycaemic agent and the UFA which share the blame; like Ginnie - not convinced by the w-3 story.

Notes
[1] Exercise - 3 hours per day - maintained without a problem.
[2] Before adding soy sauce into the diet - dizzy when standing up.
[3] Eating food without any salt added - initially resulted in 'gagging'
- salt, by far and away, the hardest of all of these foodstuffs to eliminate completely - food tastes 'repulsive'.

Kunga Dorji
07-02-11, 07:10 PM
Left with the feel from skimming those articles - that optimising mitochondrial function (particularly uncoupling) is good and that stress is bad.
That seems to be the key point.
One article interestingly links IQ with metabolic rate- again linking into the mitochondrial thing.
In that context he associates speed of the pupillary reflex as the best gauge of IQ,

Interesting that he runs against the current conventional wisdom on fructose.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 03:36 AM
Day 3 am
preparation 2 (with soy sauce)

Results so far - joint pain, allergic response (asthma) definitely reduced (but not to zero - yet).

Notes.

1.Inflammatory pain appears worse at night than in the morning

2.Joint inflammatory pain reduced - peculiarly though - appears to be cycling between allergic pain and joint inflammatory pain -
over the course of a few minutes the pain will switch from wheezing/runny nose/eyes (fizzing) to knee, hand, foot, pelvis joint fizzing.
Far from hurting - simply fizzing.

3. Plain yoghourt triggered an inflammatory episode at night - lactic acid ?
Eliminating yoghourt and switching to cheese/paneer.

4. Reducing all oil use to virtually zero - will boil stir fry vegetables and fem mls water (and will use a small amount of salt in preparation).

5. Forgot to mention - last week - a seeming increased sensitivity to salt.

6. To alternate between 1 egg and a tin of sardines (drained though sold in olive oil) as key sources of protein - do not like either egg or fish.
Oh well!

7. Repeating the same vegetable dish 3 times a day isn't as hard as it sounds.

8. Wondering whether consuming foods which neither appeal nor repel (at least with salt) is the solution we've been searching for - food was never meant to be a pastime; cannot discount the possibility that not particularly liking the food which I'm eating - is resulting in reduced food intake (well known correlation between food restriction and health).

9. Desire to exercise (aerobically - forcing mitochondrial activity ?) (dissociation of mind ? - who wants to think about the mess the species has addictively drawn itself into ?) - constantly

So - that is't not exclusively the altered profile of nutrients within the food - but the reduced attraction, and so reduced food intake - which is having an effect.

Still ... ... ... to test whether the background inflammatory fizzing can be reduced to zero.

anonymouslyadd
07-03-11, 03:53 AM
For me it is the elimination of suger that most helps. High protein diet 80% protein 20% carb for two weeks eliminates joint pain.

I've had random pain in my fingers my entire life. I'm going to try this one day.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 03:59 AM
That seems to be the key point.
One article interestingly links IQ with metabolic rate- again linking into the mitochondrial thing.
In that context he associates speed of the pupillary reflex as the best gauge of IQ,

Interesting that he runs against the current conventional wisdom on fructose.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml
Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose ... ... (prevents obesity) ... ...versus
eg (http://www.medconnect.com.au/tabid/84/ct1/c334275/Fructose-Is-Metabolized-Like-Fat-Leads-to-Obesity-Expert-Says/Default.aspx)
Fructose Is Metabolized Like Fat; Leads to ObesityOh! I see... ... ...

fructose is on the side of fat
glucose is on the side of glycogen

Our role is to sway human metabolism towards fructose/fat (using predominantly fruit/vegetables) -<- mitochondrial function
- being very careful to drastically minimize (to close to zero) dietary glucose (the hyperglycaemic agent) -

- however not to the extent of a diet containing too much fructose/fat eg hfcs and use of oil (definitely not UFA - mabe some saturated fat - ghee)

leaving protein (not much though) - egg + cheese (0% glucose and 100% saturated fat) -
- salt and cholesterol are permissible (from above).

Eat a protein source which the individual neither likes nor hates - to reduce intake to bodily need.

-*-

Nearly there ... ... ...

Of course - the UFA - especially considering its close alliance with the inflammatory mediators of ... ... ...

Oh my!!! - of course ... ... ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eicosanoid
Eicosanoids derive from either omega-3 (ω-3) or omega-6 (ω-6) EFAs. ... ... sooo simple.

anonymouslyadd
07-03-11, 04:05 AM
Exactly like Ginnie - am absolutely positive (because of the joint pain (inflammatory reaction) immediately after eating the smallest amount of sugar) that complete elimination of sugar was the single most significant change, required.

I'm so ready to be done with sugar. Here's my challenge: it's fast! So many foods that are quick are sugary. I've been at it my whole life with sugar too.

However, I don't drink anymore nor smoke. If I get rid of sugar, I will have nothing left.:rolleyes::D I'll go grab mints (sugar-free) and chew them all the time.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 04:16 AM
The unsaturated fatty acid in our diet is definitely the problem - all of those oils gotta' go - absolute removal.

Followed by the presence of any glycaemic agent - the starch and sugar gotta' go - absolute removal.

Followed by excess fructose intake - hfcs (for instance).

-*-

Vegetables first
Fruit second
Low levels of Salt, Saturated fat and Cholesterol acceptable (ghee, butter, egg, cheese)

Complete elimination of starch (glucose) and polyunsaturated fatty acid
- > - highly inflammatory.

-*-

So ... ... ... the vegetable and beautiful symmetry of the chicken/cow (both living optimal lives) from polyface farm -
is our recipe for a happy life

- Definitely.

Fat (the instantiation of the female archetype) beats glucose (the instantiation of the male archetype) - yet again -
- just as we require, and as evolution mandates.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 04:47 AM
StressCan't eliminate stress until we offer survival as a birthright.

Communal working on a sustainable farm (for food) + use of a sustainably built (zero energy) home (2 layers built down into the ground - for when it's unbearably warm or cold).

And that'd be it.

(with a solar, wireless teminal being a nice additional extra)

-*-

The fundamental stress to man (highest emergent structure - mind) is irrational (from a perspective of all of species betterment).

That's all.

All people born into Bethlehem (food- home-); that's really all.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 06:02 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/8612135/Is-the-UK-following-Japan-into-a-lost-decade.html#comment-240985652

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8612775/Greek-debt-a-threat-to-Irish-recovery.html

Greece leading the Western world away from the failed model of democracy into the globally workable model of anarchy.

-*-

Money is set to lose its value.

A matter of days ??

SB_UK
07-03-11, 12:56 PM
Greece leading the Western world away from the failed model of democracy into the globally workable model of anarchy*.

* libertarian socialism (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/03/noam-chomsky-hugo-chavez-democracy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RxD8unAxhU

Requirements
1-A sustainable model for food- tick
2-A sustainable model for housing- tick
3-The 'cloud'- tick

ALL Requirements met

-*-

We no longer have any need for law, economics (money), government, nations ... ... ...
Moreso - it is irrational to maintain law, economics, money, government, nations -
- all

(simply)

divisive.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 01:19 PM
ALL Requirements metAn end to need
... ... and to the politics of greed.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbvxALFWvHs&feature=related
It's all there.

SB_UK
07-03-11, 01:35 PM
Day 3 midday
preparation 2 (with soy sauce) + paneer

1 boiled egg + cheese + 1 apple + 1:5 dilution of apple juice + water

Day 3 pm
preparation 2 (with soy sauce) + paneer


Results
Joint pain reduced and asthma reduced - both still though present.
Hayfever - present (at a lower level than irritating)

SB_UK
07-04-11, 02:10 AM
Day 4 am
Preparation 2 + decaffeinated green tea.
Notes
1.Particularly bad allergy - day 4 am (yesterday - re-introduced protein/milk+egg protein)
2.No joint pain (though this could because I've noticed that if one of these three predominates - allergy, joint pain and infections (colds) - then the other two disapear.
3.Hmmm...
Carbohydrate - hyperglycaemia (high nutrient availability) -> infectious organism growth
Fat - PUFA (eicosanoid) -> inflammation (auto-immune type reaction)
Protein - histidine - Histamine -> inflammation (allergic type response)
4.Essential amin acids - Tyr (stimulant), Trp (narcotic), His (essential for histamine)
5.Time to eliminate protein

Diet change from Day 4 pm
A diet of only non-starchy vegetables and whole fruit -
- to boil the stir fry components (without any added oil) for just a few minutes in tinned tomatoes.
To eliminate the pulse (channa dal - too high in protein)
To permit salt.
Eliminating soy sauce. (http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=246)
To eat only this one preparation with fruit allowed.

Diet therefore changes to zero starch, zero sucrose, hypoglycaemic, zero protein (both essential and non-essential), zero fat (both PUFA and saturated).

Thoughts
Maybe white fish/meat and saturated fat (ghee) are allowed in addition.
Though - it makes more sense (I think) to suggest that white fish/meat and saturated fat (ghee) are permitted only for children (whilst they're still in the growth phase).
Would be nice (I guess) to have the freedom to use butter or ghee - just to liven up the vegetables; according to the Internet - ghee does wonders for spices (herbs and spices - all of which are permitted - haven't found any logical reason for their exclusion).

An efficient aerobic incubator would not require much food to power it; where man is addicted to consumption/consumerism -
- rapidly proving our downfall.
Saturated fat would certainly be welcome in an aerobic vessel - the reason why I've been keeping vegetable oil alongside vegetables for this long.

Referencing
1. (http://www.gnolls.org/1502/food-allergies-and-food-intolerances-reveal-the-true-human-diet/) Hypo allergenic - root veg, veg, fruit, meat
2. (http://www.achooallergy.com/foods-aggravate-fight-allergies.asp) Low protein diet - reduced allergies
Low milk protein diet - reduced allergies

-*-

Pretty sure that this diet will now work - it makes sense.

Sole issue - is whether NEITHER,AND,OR pulse, fish (high protein) and ghee (saturated fat) are permitted in growth (the first 30 years of life) and adulthood (upon development of mind).

Definitely excluded from the diet (of young and old) - the complex carb, sucrose, polyunsaturated fat.:mad::mad:

Unmanagable
07-04-11, 02:22 AM
So ... ... ... the vegetable and beautiful symmetry of the chicken/cow (both living optimal lives) from polyface farm -
is our recipe for a happy life


A big thumbs up for polyface farm! Quality indeed. :) Also, I'd like to mention that Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" book totally changed how I shopped and my nutritional intake prior to my adhd diagnosis.

I definitely feel positive changes when I make myself adhere to what I know I need to do for my body to function at full capacity. Unfortunately, I haven't reached the point of accepting nothing less than the best from myself for myself yet.

I appreciate your posts - especially between you and barliman. You both bring perspectives to the forum that greatly interest me. Thank you.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 02:56 AM
Wondering whether tomatoes [the nightshade family is often mentioned as problematic], cooking food [destruction of nutrients ?], pre-preparing food and storing it in the fridge (every 3 three days) [background decomposition] are OK ?

I guess the perfect experiment would to start from a liquidized organic raw non-starchy vegetable and whole low sugar fruit diet ?

Hopefully ! won't need to worry about the factors mentioned in this post.

ginniebean
07-04-11, 03:04 AM
definitely go with low casseine

SB_UK
07-04-11, 06:19 AM
definitely go with low casseine
Thanks

milk - mucous
yoghourt - joint pain
cheese/paneer - allergy/runny nose/wheezing

Perhaps with the exception of ghee (to be tested at some point in the distant future) - I'm leaving the cow's role to fertilize fields for later vegetable growth.

stef
07-04-11, 06:33 AM
this is really impressive - are you doing this "just" related to ADD or do you have some specific food allergies? (sorry if you mentioned this earlier, I haven't seen the whole thread)

just wondering & good luck!

Abi
07-04-11, 07:18 AM
Okay, wait, you're on Atkins/Scarsdale? Or some variant of those?

Kunga Dorji
07-04-11, 07:46 AM
Wondering whether tomatoes [the nightshade family is often mentioned as problematic], cooking food [destruction of nutrients ?], pre-preparing food and storing it in the fridge (every 3 three days) [background decomposition] are OK ?

I guess the perfect experiment would to start from a liquidized organic raw non-starchy vegetable and whole low sugar fruit diet ?

Hopefully ! won't need to worry about the factors mentioned in this post.


I may be able to help you on the tomato thing- I am currently seeing a chiro who specialises in neuro rehabilitation- looking at correcting some of the residual reflex problems around my atlas injury.

He is wondering if I have some subtle calcium metabolism problem that might be associated with an inflammatory disorder, and has specifically mentioned "nightshades". I will ask him on Wednesday.

It would really stink if tomatoes were off limits.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 10:32 AM
this is really impressive - are you doing this "just" related to ADD or do you have some specific food allergies? (sorry if you mentioned this earlier, I haven't seen the whole thread)

just wondering & good luck!
:)

I've a tendency to autoimmune, allergic and infectious diseases.
Absolutely all of them.

Have had food allergies to many types of foods - including watermelons, cucumbers, raw tomatoes - mouth swelling.

Standard allergies (show up on a skin prick test) to all allergens (excluding cat and dog) including dust, grass, fungae.

So - I have a hypersensitive immune system.

And of course - there's a connection to ADHD - which as Barliman describes - is a broad-spectrum sensitivity.

I'm absolutely positive we'll find the connection in food.

Reducing as well as altering profile of fat, carbohydrate, protein eaten should do it.

Very interested to watch :rolleyes: how the body attempts an allergic reaction if I delete protein (histidine) from my diet
- it kinda' makes sense to me that the immune system can be starved into inactivity.

Out exercising today - have lost the advantage which glucose brings - not travelling anywhere near as fast - however, managed 3 - 4 hours of aerobic exercise.

Am noting that when hungry - food tastes OK - regardless (my vegetables are barely cut - inflammation in the small joints of the hand make it difficult to use a knife :( with any precision).

SB_UK
07-04-11, 10:36 AM
Okay, wait, you're on Atkins/Scarsdale? Or some variant of those?

The diet is just non starchy vegetables cooked for 10 minutes in tomatoes - eaten 3 times a day
- I don't think it's a diet which anybody has introduced - I'm guessing that it'd be deeply unappealing to most.

Am noting that acidic (oranges) / tart fruits (including fruits which have not yet ripened (kiwi fruit and apples) (though which are sold as ready for consumption) - results in a sneezing fit)
- thinking that maybe fruit need be left out also (didn't have a reaction to ripe mangoes or grapes though!).

-*-

Searching for something positive to say about this - it takes about 15 minutes to prepare, including only 5 minutes of gas - for 3 days food -
- and of course it costs next to nothing.

None of that particularly matters here though ... ... ... well accepted benefits in pursuit of near starvation.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 10:44 AM
I may be able to help you on the tomato thing- I am currently seeing a chiro who specialises in neuro rehabilitation- looking at correcting some of the residual reflex problems around my atlas injury.

He is wondering if I have some subtle calcium metabolism problem that might be associated with an inflammatory disorder, and has specifically mentioned "nightshades". I will ask him on Wednesday.

It would really stink if tomatoes were off limits.
It certainly would.

Tomatoes are now the one food which I'm reliant on.

Maybe it's because the vegetables are bought from a supermarket - but none of them have any taste - all of the taste in that dish comes from the tinned tomatoes + salt.

I'm allergic to raw tomatoes - and so ... ... am prepared to drop them - though that'll make life much more difficult.

Abi
07-04-11, 10:47 AM
Have you discussed these allergies with your doc and been actually tested?

SB_UK
07-04-11, 10:54 AM
Have you discussed these allergies with your doc and been actually tested?

No - the last time that I went to an allergy specialist - I found the exercise pointless.

Currently trying to find out (on the internet) whether an ostensibly protein/histidine-free diet has been tested as a cure for atopy.

The histamine has gotta' come from somewhere.

post-edit
Apparently, muscle breakdown is a possibility.

Abi
07-04-11, 10:58 AM
:-| <-- my not surprised face.

Aaah SB, SB. lolz.

May I ask, what's your med combo? Dexedrine, yes? And? For the depression/moods? I'm just curious.

FYI mine is Lexapro(escitalopram) 15mg; Wellbutrin SR 150mg(mornings); Fluanxol 1mg(mornings); Depakote(valproic acid) 300mg x2; Klonopin(clonazepam) 1mg x3.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 11:10 AM
:-| <-- my not surprised face.

Aaah SB, SB. lolz.

May I ask, what's your med combo? Dexedrine, yes? And? For the depression/moods? I'm just curious.

FYI mine is Lexapro(escitalopram) 15mg; Wellbutrin SR 150mg(mornings); Fluanxol 1mg(mornings); Depakote(valproic acid) 300mg x2; Klonopin(clonazepam) 1mg x3.


Nothing any more.

Dexedrine was lovely whilst it lasted - but I came off it years ago now; the 'crash' began to intensify - and each time it did, I cut the drug down a little - until I was off it.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 11:59 AM
Surely the body's inappropriately overactive immune system will be switched off in a near starvation state.
It's just that the body will have other things on its mind - other things - other than wasting effort 'tilting at windmills'.

Anyway - hit 1 on starvation and inflammation

(looking good)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6421521
Previous studies from this laboratory indicated that mice starved for 48 or 72 hr were resistant to the intracellular pathogen, Listeria monocytogenes.
Confirming previous studies, the numbers of L. monocytogenes in livers and spleens of starved mice were 2-3 logs lower than those of fed mice 72 hr after inoculation of bacteria.

-*-

A new take on 'austerity measures'.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 12:26 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3259207
These data indicate that starved mice have a marked reduction in T-cell cellularity, possibly related to corticosteroid production during the stress of starvation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorticoid
GCs are part of the feedback mechanism in the immune system that turns immune activity (inflammation) down.

Proper starvation (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/starvation-returns-to-the-horn-of-africa-2306001.html) is a bad thing of course; the diseases of too little and the diseases of too much.

Surely - a very low plasma glucose will result - as we aerobically exercise (the more the better) -
in a need for glucose (glucose mobilization)
->- driving glucocorticoid production -

- downregulating the immune system (inflammatory response).

Doesn't that make sense ?

And the problem - that we're 'addicted' to stimulation (high blood glucose - the 'sugar rush')
- we're required to lose the addiction to raising blood glucose (external stimulation) -
- before we're ready to move onto (comfortably) - a hypoglycaemic diet.

+ exercise

->-

driving glucocorticoid production.

-*-

That's all (the contents of this post) obvious isn't it ?

Can't see any errors in that line of logic.

SB_UK
07-04-11, 03:57 PM
+ of course

saturated fat, ghee, leptin, instantiations of the female archetype.

[fat beats glucose into submission]

mortar board
..............|
..............v
http://scoutmastercg.com/wp-content/uploads/typimg/big_gay_al2_1.gif

" Hey ho! "

SB_UK
07-04-11, 04:03 PM
mangoes - joint pain.

higher GI than bread !

SB_UK
07-05-11, 02:25 AM
A big thumbs up for polyface farm! Quality indeed. :) Also, I'd like to mention that Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" book totally changed how I shopped and my nutritional intake prior to my adhd diagnosis.Michael Pollan is a Professor of journalism, isn't he ?
The journalist knows the importance of communication - and that's an all important skill which scientists need to learn.

Systematizing (building systems) without Empathizing (communicating effectively to all people) -
- can lead the species into all manner of problems.

SB_UK
07-05-11, 02:33 AM
Day 4
Results - mangoes lead to joint pain.

Day 5 am
Preparation 3 = A diet of only non-starchy vegetables boiled for a few minutes in a tin of tomatoes.
Salt to taste allowed.
Butter (in advance of working out how to handle ghee) allowed.
Notes
1. Addition of small amount of salt + 2 knobs of butter make the dish much more satisfying.
2. Immediate positive effects on G.I.T. and joints.

At last - have the diet worked out; now to 'cycle'.

(may re-introduce the boiled egg (bleughh!) in the future)

So far today - background fizzing in joints, no wheezing.

SB_UK
07-05-11, 04:15 AM
(may re-introduce the boiled egg (bleughh!) in the future)



Re-introducing 1 egg + a tin of either sardines/mackerel or tuna to get protein intake to ~40g daily.

(and that's it :o (honest !))

SB_UK
07-05-11, 07:37 AM
Hate fish + eggs - so hoping that the RDA protein for adults is out.

Would be nice if a couple of eggs or 100g quorn (Low in His and Trp (http://www.mycoprotein.org/assets/ALFT_V2_2.pdf)) might be enough.

10 - 15 g protein.

200g of quorn daily (even) wouldn't be so bad.

Much more ethical - no nervous system need die so that we might live.

(better tasting than yucky egg and fish too - it tastes like chicken)

Kunga Dorji
07-05-11, 08:36 AM
:-| <-- my not surprised face.

Aaah SB, SB. lolz.

May I ask, what's your med combo? Dexedrine, yes? And? For the depression/moods? I'm just curious.

FYI mine is Lexapro(escitalopram) 15mg; Wellbutrin SR 150mg(mornings); Fluanxol 1mg(mornings); Depakote(valproic acid) 300mg x2; Klonopin(clonazepam) 1mg x3.


Curious-- what difference did you notice when you went on the Depakote. It made me a lot more even tempered- and when I cut it down- my wife told me very smartly to go back on it.
Then I took up the mindfulness- and it too became redundant- without wifely protests.

A good thing too- mindfulness is utimately cheaper.

SB_UK
07-05-11, 03:11 PM
I may be able to help you on the tomato thing- I am currently seeing a chiro who specialises in neuro rehabilitation- looking at correcting some of the residual reflex problems around my atlas injury.

He is wondering if I have some subtle calcium metabolism problem that might be associated with an inflammatory disorder, and has specifically mentioned "nightshades". I will ask him on Wednesday.

It would really stink if tomatoes were off limits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolanineMechanism of Action One study suggests that the toxic mechanism of solanine is caused by the chemical's interaction with mitochondrial membranes. Experiments show that solanine exposure opens the potassium channels of mitochondria, decreasing their membrane potential. This in turn leads to Ca2+ being transported from the mitochondria into the cytoplasm, and it is this increased concentration of Ca2+ in the cytoplasm that triggers cell damage and apoptosis.[2]Hmmm ... ... ...

Time to delete tomatoes, green pepper, tabasco and paprika !!!

:(

Starting from tomorrow.

Preparation 4 = preparation 3 minus tomatoes + salt + (ghee or butter).

1 tin of fish for protein.
Allowed - 1 apple.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=62
Potatoes, tomatoes, sweet and hot peppers, eggplant, tomatillos, tamarios, pepinos, pimentos, paprika, cayenne, and Tabasco sauce are classified as nightshade foods.

SB_UK
07-06-11, 03:27 AM
Day 5 (5th July) pm
Preparation 3 - meal 2 and meal 3
1 tin sardines
1 1/2 tin tuna + mustard (only containing mustard dissolved in white wine)1 apple (+ salt)1 miso drink (no calories)

Observations
1.Tried a zero calorie fruit squash containing aspartame - activated joint pain immediately.
2.Mornings appear to be better than Evenings - where am much more susceptible to pain - ? body's cortisol production (anti-inflammatory) is higher in the morning.
3.Very significant joint pain after Preparation 3 - day 5 pm (the reason for the loss of the nightshade today) - which was cured (remarkably) by a couple of pieces of high animal fat/protein (salami) - no idea why I tried that experiment ?
Also noticed an immediate effect of this protein intake on reducing satiety.
4.Day 6 am - the best morning I've had so far - woke early without any pain.

Really hoping that ghee + mycoprotein will be enough - really don't want to take the route of consumption of any read meat ... ... ...
Anyway ... ...

-*-

Certainly makes sense that an evolutionary aerobic vessel would require white muscle in order to function - requiring a certain level of protein intake.
The saturated fat is the most obvious chemical structure for feeding to the mitochondrion.
Absolutely positive that lifting aerobic exercise + a massive reduction in glucose (to drive corticosteroid production) and an elimination of UFAs (as precursor to the eicosanoid) will promote immune system function.
Lifting aerobic exercise to 5 hours per day.
Positive also, that eating as little (as possible) will be health protective.

So ... ... ... to eliminate the 'nightshade' and to hope that a relative small amount of mycoprotein/ghee is enough to feed daily white muscle natural wastage.

Unmanagable
07-06-11, 03:36 AM
Five hours aerobic exercise daily? Wow. I'm struggling to do a consistent five minutes daily. lol

SB_UK
07-06-11, 03:44 AM
Also noticed an immediate effect of this protein intake on reducing satiety.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15466943
There is convincing evidence that a higher protein intake increases thermogenesis and satiety compared to diets of lower protein content.

And of course - the role of mitochondrial uncoupling proteins in thermogenesis.

(referencing back to Barliman,Peat - from earlier in the thread).

-*-

Itsa' tale about the mitochondrion.

from wikiP 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine#cite_note-pmid16733852-1),2 (http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/12/3359.asp)
Effect of solanine on the membrane potential of mitochondria in HepG<sub>2</sub> cells and [Ca<sup>2+</sup>]<sub>i</sub> in the cells

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/calcium.shtml
The mitochondria can bind a certain amount of calcium during stress, but accumulating calcium can reach a point at which it inactivates the mitochondria ... ...

SB_UK
07-06-11, 03:47 AM
Five hours aerobic exercise daily? Wow. I'm struggling to do a consistent five minutes daily. lol

Just enough to drive sweating - it's not particularly heavy duty - an elimination of carbs from the diet has that effect though -
reduces the 'oomph' ... ... ...

Hoping that driving the mitochondria to work whilst eliminating glucose levels (through diet) will drive up corticosteroid production.

Anyway :)

SB_UK
07-06-11, 12:05 PM
fish - no pain or allergy
2 satsumas + apple - immediate pain
preparation 4 (without tomatoes) - no joint pain (so far)

fructose ??

http://catholicphoenix.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Adam-and-Eve-Garden.jpg

SB_UK
07-06-11, 12:39 PM
Hmmm ... ... ...

fat's stamping it's authority by banning all sugars ??

It's true isn't it ?

http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/1/19/Rasyslami.jpg





simply straight up:) (nothing kinky)

In Ayurveda, ghee (clarified butter) is believed to be the best for human consumption.

Just (really simple) chemistry.

Sandy4957
07-06-11, 12:59 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but SB, have you read any of Barry Sears's books or articles?

The best I've ever felt was when I was zoning, but it's tough to maintain.

I tried to reduce salt. I don't eat a lot of processed foods, but I do make, say, spaghetti sauce with salted canned tomatoes. I tried making it with no-salt tomatoes and no added salt and it's darned near inedible. So I add my own salt, but it's less than what I'd get with the salted canned tomatoes.

Good luck with this program. I find diet effects to be VERY interesting.

SB_UK
07-06-11, 04:39 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but SB, have you read any of Barry Sears's books or articles?

The best I've ever felt was when I was zoning, but it's tough to maintain.

I tried to reduce salt. I don't eat a lot of processed foods, but I do make, say, spaghetti sauce with salted canned tomatoes. I tried making it with no-salt tomatoes and no added salt and it's darned near inedible. So I add my own salt, but it's less than what I'd get with the salted canned tomatoes.

Good luck with this program. I find diet effects to be VERY interesting.

No - never heard of him.

I believe that I may be advocating a fried slime mould in saturated animal fat diet

:-)

(actually - I am ;))

It tastes wonderful - ghee (first time I've ever tried it explicitly tonight) oozes out of every pore - it's like a skin moisturiser from within.

No omega-3, no fish oil, no carbohydrates (complex or not).

SB_UK
07-07-11, 08:01 AM
Weight loss on this diet.

TNFa the reason why it's so simple.

Not being hungry when sick - same mechanism.

Ref 1 (http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/260/5/R906.abstract) and Ref 2 (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/295/6/E1502.full)

Furthermore, TNF-α and IL-1β administration also decreased mRNA levels of lipin-1 in adipose tissue in mice.
Together, our results demonstrate that expression of lipin-1, one of the essential triglyceride synthetic enzymes, was suppressed by LP.+TNF-induced anorexiaBetween you and me, it's a setup :):D:eek:.

(you know what I mean)

Losing 1lb per day currently.

And not in the slightest bit hungry.

SB_UK
07-07-11, 08:07 AM
Day 7

Joint pain reduced to barely perceptible.
Added zero cal. tonic water into the regime.
Maybe slight wheezing still.
Woke up (not voluntarily) at 2am - started exercising at 5am (nothing much else to do at 5 am) today.

Diet
am - 1 slice low GI bread + tea from an old tea bag
midday - preparation 4 + 1 tin fish
pm - preparation 4

-*-

Not in the slightest bit hungry, bit tired though
- exact same feeling as when sick - there is no hunger.

SB_UK
07-07-11, 12:46 PM
austerity
->-
mitochondria
->-
autophagy (qinkin)
{jump}
suppressor T cells
->-
tolerance to intrinsic (auto-immunity) and extrinsic (atopic) allergens

-*-

Who recycles in a world of rampant plenty ?

Nobody.

-*-

As man eats his species out of planetary home
- his cells
(in their desire to emulate)
and similarly
fail to housekeep.

Th1,2 -> <- Ts (the regulatory T cell)

The instantiation of the male archetype needs to be controlled.

-*-

Trigger happy cells of war.

The basis to the cure for auto-immune, atopic, cancer and infectious diseases (prevention through austerity).

-*-

To instate {discrimination,quality}.

-*-

{Materialism,Capitalism} is dead; the information age is upon us.

Hello (virtual) world :o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_tTaxI1UDU

SB_UK
07-07-11, 01:29 PM
IL-1/TNFa vs TGFb/IL-10
TGF-beta acts as an antiproliferative factor ... ...
TGF-β induces apoptosis in numerous cell types.

MOBILIZE versus STAND DOWN

The instantiation of the female archetype protects her male counterpart from his intrinsically destructive nature.

Kill others versus Kill oneself (autophagy - qinkin)

~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12431778)~ TGF-beta1 inhibits multiple caspases induced by TNF-alpha ... ...

Mitochondria -> caspases (http://www.rndsystems.com/DAM_public/5218.jpg)

1. Glycolysis
versus
2. Mitochondrial aerobic respiration
3. Mitochondrial uncoupling

~s (http://www.rndsystems.com/mini_review_detail_objectname_MR00_ApoptosisI.aspx )~Necrosis normally results from a severe cellular insult. Both internal organelle and plasma membrane integrity are lost, resulting in spilling of cytosolic and organellar contents into the surrounding environment. Immune cells are attracted to the area and begin producing cytokines that generate an inflammatory response. Thus, cell death in the absence of an inflammatory response may be the best way to distinguish apoptosis from necrosis.
necrosis versus apoptosis
~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15334664)~ Uncoupling protein-3 sensitizes cells to mitochondrial-dependent stimulus of apoptosis.

Glucose depletion.
+Saturated fat -> Aerobic respiration.
+ Protein -> Uncoupling

~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15466943)~ There is convincing evidence that a higher protein intake increases thermogenesis ... ...

SB_UK
07-07-11, 04:46 PM
~s (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081209221742.htm)~The process is not so simple with fructose, he noted. "In order for fructose to be metabolized, the body has to create both fasted and fed conditions. fructose / \ glucose
fructose / \ glucose / \ fat

meaning

fructose becomes a poison
glucose levels need to be pared back to a minimum

-*-

http://www.bu.edu/aldolase/HFI/treatment/diet4.html

edible - leafy green veg

non-edible - onions

-*-

prep 5 - try cabbage/broccoli + quorn +ghee

SB_UK
07-07-11, 11:33 PM
Hmmm ... ... ...

very similar effects to dexedrine occurring.

:-)

... ... the body has to create both fasted and fed conditions.
~s (http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-topic/26891)~Block DHT, TGF Beta and TNF alpha by taking these three internals.fruct-ose:eek::p:confused:

Pair-bonding
DHT has three times greater affinity for androgen receptors than testosterone and has 15-30 times greater affinity than adrenal androgens.... ... is a sign of propensity towards not virility (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9zJSBtKhdao/SpJ5jsUDuNI/AAAAAAAABQA/sFWmmmdvP1o/s400/muscle_man1.jpg) but pair-bondability (http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfoKS-qxkvtDNvSkFhzF2lpVXwNr6DE-uEuSSsw8rt9-pBNqmaVA).

Thrash -> prostate gland -> DHT -> pair-bonding formation -> prostate cancer / benign prostatic hyperplasia (bph) -> DHT
Note - incidence of prostatic cancer on Mount Athos (higher incidence of this particular form of cancer relative to the others) - absence of pair bond completion.

acne, hair, bph Solution - carb. intake, food intake, food profile.

Diet
Moving towards - a leafy green vegetable drink (collard greens, kale, chard ... ... next post) = minerals + vitamins
- Heat labile (must be grown)

ghee = saturated fat (really not much required - it's overpowering)
- Not heat labile (simple to generate and store)

protein = vegan mycoprotein or pea protein isolate perhaps (to be tried later)
- mechanism of protein-induced thermogenesis ? (next post)
- Not heat labile (can be generated in a biotech company - protecting animals)

AB (as above - the triumviracy), TJH (IL-10) and RS

A setup.

-*-

Fructose conflates fed and fasted states.

Fasted [hypoglycaemic] - caffeine (good) - mobilization of a little glucose, activation of aerobic respiration, helps cortisol (am)

Fed [normal - hyperglycaemic] - caffeine (bad) - mobilization of glucose above and beyond normal-high levels -
hyper-hyper glycaemia -> tooth pain.

Onset of wheat (starch) consumption (hyperglycaemic) (fossil record) ->- origin of dental decay.

SB_UK
07-07-11, 11:59 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_adipose_tissue
... ... brown adipocytes contain numerous smaller droplets and a much higher number of mitochondria, which contain iron and make it brown.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Enerback2009_1-0">[2]</sup> Brown fat also contains more capillaries than white fat, since it has a greater need for oxygen than most tissues.aerobic

Hibernation
->-
Theta EEG state

[1,2,3] - mindfulness - social conscience (higher) thought, the seated and walking meditations (ADHD and ADD-Inattentive)

In between wake and sleep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4JA1p8_GM
:)
"somewhere in a dream between sleep and waking up"Awakening into the dream & 'I woke up in a dream today'

SB_UK
07-08-11, 04:10 AM
fructose:mad::mad::mad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycation
It appears that fructose and galactose have approximately ten times the glycation activity of glucose, the primary body fuel.<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference"></sup><sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-5">
</sup>Alzheimer's disease (amyloid proteins are side-products of the reactions progressing to AGEs),
cancer (acrylamide and other side-products are released),
peripheral neuropathy (the myelin is attacked),
and other sensory losses such as deafness (due to demyelination). http://www.iovs.org/content/36/5/969.short
Production of fructose and fructose-3-phosphate in maturing rat lenses.
Cataracts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycation
All blood sugars are reducing molecules. -*-

--- Genetic Selection ---
evolutionary selection due to resistance to plasmodium falciparum

Vogel and Vogel - 'Human genetics'
(paraphrase)
Resistance to infectious disease as the most important (evolutionarily) positive selection pressure on fixing mutations.Survival (protective) in poverty - absolutely not though in an environment of plenty.

Eating ourselves to death.

SB_UK
07-08-11, 04:24 AM
1. Blood sugar crash (very unpleasant) on drinking 1/2 a cup of coffee (needed a slice of bread), tooth pain.
Need to drink it in thimble amounts - if at all.
Time to effect on blood sugar (improvement) on eating bread - Immediate to 5 seconds.

2.protein kinase A (cAMP) versus protein kinase C (fat - DAG)
TNFa (cAMP -> fos)(PKA) versus TGFb (PKC) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11168928)

3.Matrix metallo-proteases (MMP) - collagenase
TNFa (break down) versus TGFb (lay down)
dexamethasone (GC) -<- repression of the system (of MMP synthesis)

4. Fibrosis (liver - using HFCS)
Thrashing TNFa + TGFb (catabolism and anabolism simultaneously)
very bad

-<- fructose -<- :mad::mad::mad:
(from above - mimics both the 'fed and fasted' state

- the body doesn't know whether it's coming or going.

High sugar -> downregulated glucocorticoid production (no sugar mobilization required) -> resulting in diminished glucocorticoid mediated gene repression via the glucocorticoid responsive element (GRE).

-*-

male - catabolism
female - anabolism

Need neither - when growth finished - need Steroid/Glucocorticoid repression of the entire system -
otherwise simultaneous catabolism/anabolism - lose structural interity -
FIBROSIS of the MATRIX (http://www.wellcome-matrix.org/research-groups.html).

SB_UK
07-08-11, 05:16 AM
3.Matrix metallo-proteases (MMP) - collagenase
TNFa (break down) versus TGFb (lay down)
dexamethasone (GC) -<- repression of the system (of MMP synthesis)
http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/85/1/22.full
This review also explores the different available MMP inhibitors, natural or synthetic, and suggests that MMP inhibition by several inhibitors, particularly by natural substances, could provide a potential therapeutic pathway to limit caries progression ...Tooth decay

-*-

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/hba1c
HbA1c (Glycated haemoglobin) and fructosamineDiabetes

SB_UK
07-08-11, 03:27 PM
Day 8

Day 2 of only 4 hours sleep - it's just like 50mg (Daily) dexedrine without the dexedrine.

1-morning 1/2 cup of coffee + 1 slice of low GI bread - incredible energy - couldn't stop exercising.
Tooth pain (hyperglycaemia)
A particularly severe crash - cured with another slice of low GI bread.

Exercising for hours x 3 cured the tooth pain - restored glucose levels.

midday - tin of mackerel (first time - surprisingly nice) - no pain

pm - ghee/quorn/garlic/collard greens (lots and lots)/mushroom/red wine (experiment)
Not completely free from pain (by far and away the least so far though - only the central digits affected - weakly and not for long)
- am going to need to test foods - 1 at a time, from now.

Will start with chicken, then chicken + ghee and then ghee+ .... ... ... testing all of the various other different products (one at a time, in bulk, this time)
... ... may take a while.

The proper scientific way.

Red wine tastes nice for the first time in my life !
It has a taste.

Don't appear to need tabasco - I can taste food now.

Definitely fructose though - and it makes sense.

Currently - absolutely no fructose, absolutely no casein, glucose/starch allowed at very low levels, gluten allowed at low levels ? (1 slice of the low GI bread seems OK), caffeine at very low levels.

AM - seems more forgiving than - PM.

Asthma down almost completely - tried to push exercising to wheeze - couldn't ... ... ... (between meal 1 and meal 2).

-*-

Protein seems fine; Animal saturated fat seems fine.

SB_UK
07-08-11, 11:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose_malabsorption
Diet

Foods that should be avoided by people with fructose malabsorption include:


wheat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat)-containing products



It's not casein or gluten - it's lactose, fructose and glucose which're problematic.

-*-

fructose - joint pain (auto-immune) - Th1
glucose (tried a small pack of crisps last night to check) - asthma (allergic) - Th2

-*-

We're becoming sugar reactive

-*-

Think that I can feel cortisol production (as it occurs).

-*-

3rd day - 2am awake (4 hours sleep)
Not tired.
Not hungry.

-*-

Day 9
[meal 1] - 1 low GI slice of bread (+ a small amount of unsalted butter) + tea (teabag brewed for 5 seconds to limit caffeine level)
[meal 2] - 1 tin of fish + mustard (made up in white wine)
[meal 3] - to attempt red wine alone and then 30 minutes later roast chicken + skin

(and then chicken + ghee alone , ghee + garlic alone, ghee + mushrooms alone, ghee + green leaf vegetables (collard greens first, then chard) alone, ghee + broccoli alone, ghee + quorn alone, ghee + onions alone ... ... ... and to see what happens

SB_UK
07-09-11, 03:14 PM
Very important

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid

-*-

- (glucose) -> electron,physics

- + (amino acid) -> proton,chemistry (the amino acid changes its charge with pH- pKa)

neutral (fat) -> hydrogen,biology (aerobic respiration)

-*-

electron

electron / \ proton <- duality formation

electronneutral
electron / |
electron / | \ proton

Pair bond completion.

1. Male archetype - erase - glucose
2. Female archetype - retained and fixed - a fixed pH
A small change in brain chemistry

-*-

More simply -
- maintain physiological pH rigidly (pH 7.4)

Eliminate sugar and acid/alkali-causing foods from diet -<- homeostatic stress

Eat protein + saturated fat (just a bit).

Glucogenic_amino_acids power the brain (set in theta EEG (ADDers live here) - with little blood glucose requirement, noting that the ADHD brain is smaller (more efficient,connected).

Problem - the primitive reward system -
it *needs* carbohydrate.

With completion of mind (wisdom) - we're freed from this reward system and are no longer controlled by cravings.

The cravings of carbohydrate become tiredness upon blood glucose depletion (see below).

We can (upon transition) easily control our food intake -
leaving the question open of how we should eat ?

protein + saturated fat

We can watch ourselves and eat as little protein as we can get away with - without feeling tired.

-*-

1 - meal 1 - 1 slice of toast
2 - meal 2 - protein intake reduced

Very tired.

3- Attempted to eat sucrose - no pain (maybe a little tooth pain) - immediately woke up.

4- Insufficient protein intake results in tiredness - will try the experiment again tomorrow - with the same food intake pattern - and will try and wake up with extra protein.

-*-

How to lose weight ?

Protein and exercise aerobically for hours and hours.

Noting - that this diet isn't a method of losing fat - it's a diet for life.

Noting - that it'll only work happily (a diet for a healthy lifestyle) after the transition from the primitive to the modern reward system.
The primitive reward system is fundamentally wired into a model for human behaviour (motivation) which requires bloog glucose elevation.

The sugar rush.

We need to lose the addictive propensity in order to live; become properly social in the process.

-*-

The diet above is the cure for all of the various diseases whicht the Western world are plagued by - the diseases of Western living.

-*-

It's a big deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol#Factors_generally_increasing_cortisol_lev els
Cortisol's primary functions in the body are:

increasing blood sugar through gluconeogenesis
suppressing the immune system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GluconeogenesisGluconeogenesis (abbreviated GNG) is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.
It's a big deal.but I suspect :rolleyes: you know that.

SB_UK
07-10-11, 04:14 PM
preparation 6 (from above) - ghee/quorn/garlic/collard greens (lots and lots)/mushroom

meal 1 - 1 slice of bread - absolutely fine
meal 2 - sardines/1/2 tin tuna - absolutely fine

Some roast chicken basted in ghee
- allergic reaction !
Wasn't expecting that.
Sneezing etc ... ...

Cambridge water (2 cups)
- allergic reaction !
Was not expecting that either.
Not as severe as above - dry mouth, sore throat.

meal 3 - preparation 6 + 1 small samosa containing potato/cauliflower/peas
Also nuts
Also (small amount) cheese + wine.
Also 3 cups of water, each with a small amount of wine.

Converting bread and water to fish and wine is the thought which springs to mind.

Exercised for 7 hours today.

Confused ??

Think that casein is being complexed by tannin (red wine) - preventing the casein in cheese from hurting.
Think that tannin in red wine is chelating out the metal ions from our water also - rendering it drinkable.

Confused after today's results.

Beginning to wonder whether it's carbohydrate (auto-immune response) versus fat (allergic response).

It seems though to be dependent on how much food is eaten and how much exercise is performed.

Today - nuts did not cause pain.
Cheese did not cause pain.
Preparation 6 did not cause pain.
The glucose and gluten in potatoes and wheat in the samosa did not cause pain.

-*-

Next - to try chicken prepared without any fat.

-*-

Experiment is considerably more complicated if the exact state - whether fed or fasted or partly - and the amount and type of the foodstuff - interact.

We're meant to live on the starvation side and eat a small amount only when we absolutely must ?
That small amount preferentially drawn from protein ?

-*-

Today - the general thrust has been that we only need to eat protein.
However - that exercising more increases our resistance to a little more glucose ? fat ? (ghee) in the diet.

-*-

Messy.

SB_UK
07-11-11, 04:11 AM
More simply -
- maintain physiological pH rigidly (pH 7.4)

Eliminate sugar and acid/alkali-causing foods from diet -<- homeostatic stress.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8412764 and wikiP
Both glutathione peroxidase (GPO) and glutathione reductase activities decreased as a function of a decrease in pH from 7.4 to 4.

Oxidative stress (remodelling) - brain/mind (reason we discarded endogenous Vit. C prodution)
-<- growth (brain/mind)

Upon completion of growth of brain/mind - enforced pH maintenance at pH 7.4 - to ensure a dampening blanket of the reducing agent GSH is optimally present to neutralize the remodelling, destructive - oxidizing agent (free radicals, superoxides).

Kunga Dorji
07-11-11, 05:45 AM
Hi SB- have a look at introducing a supplement of N- acetyl- cysteine.
This acts as an intracellular anti-oxidant. It is the only agent we have which does this so far.
However it is cheap, readily available (iherb.com- Now foods brand) and easy to take.
The smarter shrinks in my town are recommending it to all their patients- and it is one of the top priorities in my list of supplements (the other biggie here is vitamin D- but that is way too complex and controversial to discuss here and now).

SB_UK
07-11-11, 03:34 PM
Complete control over food intake - there is no hunger any more.
Still - become tired if the very low level of food intake which is required?? is undercut.
A little mental confusion coming out of the theta EEG state - when forced to talk using the mouth - unpleasant.

Extremely rapid fat loss.
http://www.gghjournal.com/volume18/18-2/articles/diamond/diamond.htm
... ... was associated with cachexia-inducing states-*-

The spirit (rum for instance) - post-eating sloshed around the mouth and not swallowed - feels as though it alleviates hand and foot pain after eating.

I think it disinfects the mouth.

The alcohol is vapourized in the mouth and used as we'd use toothpaste, and not swallowed.

Volume used only 1 ml or so.

To be attempted again tomorrow.

-*-

Increasing flexibility.

-*-

Is much of the inflammation due to adipocyte fat mobilization ?

Ordinarily (if obese - visceral obesity) :

http://endo.endojournals.org/content/144/9/3765.full
In addition to local increases in TNFα, a systemic increase in inflammatory markers has been shown to be associated with obesity. C-reactive protein (CRP) is an unspecific acute phase reactant that serves as an excellent indicator of systemic inflammation.when mobilizing fat:
TNFa induces lipolysis ...Waiting - losing 1lb a day (+ 4-5 hours exercise daily) ... ... ...

Perhaps better to attempt to define an appropriate diet after fat loss stops.

http://www.bodyfatguide.com/PoundADay.htm
Since there are 3500 calories in 1 lb. of body fathttp://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/logout/calorie_intake.htm
UK Department of Health Estimated Average Requirements (EAR) are a daily calorie intake of 1940 calories per day for women and 2550 for men.In this state - there is no hunger - there is no willpower required to abstain from food.

-*-

In man, TNFa concentrations decline with weight loss ... -<-

A biggy!

Systemic inflammation cured by elimination of visceral fat (http://www.elements4health.com/images/stories/weightloss/belly-fat.jpg).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etanercept
This therapeutic potential is based on the fact that TNF-alpha is the "master regulator" of the inflammatory response in many organ systems.

SB_UK
07-11-11, 03:43 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UxhYRGY7bZ4/Td1v4GOpSWI/AAAAAAAAAlw/wMh_n77-sRg/s1600/caterpillar.jpg

The hunger has a point.

http://enchantingkerala.org/digital-photography-school/icons/plain-tiger-butterfly.jpg

SB_UK
07-11-11, 04:02 PM
tannin Love oxalate (spinach).

Divalent metal ion chelators.

Eighteen wild under-utilized crop-seeds were investigated for their tannin, phytin and oxalate contents.
The antinutritional effects of these components ... ... ...Spinach (oxalate) - growth/proliferation inhibitor.

Love nuts (phytin).

Love red wine (as of recently) (tannin).

-*-

Natural chelators -> anti-proliferative.

-*-

Impressive stuff !!

eg (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18754866) Divalent cations modulate the integrin-mediated malignant phenotype .. ...

*not* if they're chelated out of the equation.

SB_UK
07-11-11, 04:08 PM
unsaturated/saturated fat
fructose and glucose
protein
hard water
casein (milk protein) / gluten
tannin (wine), phytin (nuts) and oxalate (spinach)
spirit (alcohol)Food is (bio)chemistry.

SB_UK
07-12-11, 03:35 PM
July 12th (day 12)

meal 1 - 1 slice bread
meal 2 - tin sardines/tin tuna
meal 3 - preparation 6 (1/2 plate)

water - with a few drops of wine.

Small amount of coffee in the morning -> tooth pain.
Why ?
acidic ??

Compared mouth wash versus 1ml whisky -
the whisky works (to clean teeth and erase pain) - the mouth wash doesn't!!

- better able to concentrate (on diet)
- still no desire for food - could easily skip food for day after day - the desire has gone
- aspects of life are less stressful - not as easily overloaded by information overload - reduced info overload -> stress reaction in evidence
- able to drive a car
- waking up at sunrise (melatonin related) - light triggered
- need only 4 or so hours of sleep

Next - to accompany Barliman - atlas profilax correction - to get an orthotic to balance my feet -
'top and tail'.

main protein
bread on side
cheese + wine
coffee
spirit (40%)

The gourmet menu - there's a reason for everything :-)

-*-
N-acetyl cysteine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine
homocysteine + B6 ->- cysteine
B6,B9,B12 mentioned

http://www.advance-health.com/nacetylcysteine.html
Cysteine also helps synthesize glutathione ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine
Homocysteine -> Cysteine conversion blocked - BAD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Food_sources
Pyridoxal phosphate-dependent enzymes play a role in the biosynthesis of four important neurotransmitters: serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine and gamma-aminobutyric acid.

-*-

http://nro.sagepub.com/content/6/3/147.abstract
Stiff-man syndrome (SMS) is a rare disease of progressive muscle stiffness, most common in middle age, often associated with autoimmunity to glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD) and responsive to treatment with GABA agonists. glutamate (male) -> <- GABA (female)


Increasing flexibility.

SB_UK
07-12-11, 04:31 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_decarboxylase
diabetes
bipolar/schizophrenia

It'a a battle of the sexes between glutamate and GABA - where GABA will win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Aminobutyric_acid
[Drugs that] increase the available amount of GABA typically have relaxing, anti-anxiety, and anti-convulsive effects.... ... and when you wake up in the morning, you'll have no ... ...

Many of the substances below are known to cause anterograde amnesia and retrograde amnesia.

-*-

ADD -> glucose sensitive
ADD -> stress sensitive - due to glucose sensitivity - hypersensitive
ADD -> information (optical) -> stimulation -> glucose mobilization -> stressful -> unpleasantly overloaded
ADD -> increased information upload in situations
ADD -> reduced need for glucose (related to our brain structure - the ADDer's smaller, more efficient, more connected brain)

glucose (glutamate) (SNS) vs GABA (PNS)

-*-

Diabetes, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder - all related to blood glucose.

-*-

Just one enzyme which shifts the major stimulatory into the major inhibitory neurotransmitter.

-*-

stopping here ... ... ...

SB_UK
07-14-11, 12:43 PM
white -> brown adipose tissue
brown adipose tissue (hibernation)
Theta EEG (ADDers live here) - similar to hibernation.
A low energy (efficient) state -<- need 1 of 2 of man
Heat production -<- need 2 of 2 of man (heat)

Nearly every food I try causes teeth pain and joint buzzing.

Currently -

meal 1 - 1 slice of bread
meal 2 - 1 tin (90g) mackerel
meal 3 - spinach

300 - 500 calories daily.

Not hungry.

+ up to 5 hours exercise daily.

Not particularly tired.

-*-

activation of PPARg (breakdown products of chlorophyll)

peroxisome + mitochondria -
synergistic micro-organisms turned the backbone of human metabolism.

chlorophyll ->-> phytanic acid ->[activated]-> PPARg ->[drives]-> peroxisome proliferation ->[which as it works, feeds]-> mitochondrial proliferation (mitochondrial biogenesis)

The peroxisome and mitochondrion are synergistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory

white fat -> brown fat

1. Require green leaves (spinach)
+
2. Exposure to cold.

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/misc_topics/brownfat.html
[B]Exposure to cold leads to sympathetic stimulation of brown adipocyte via norepinephrine binding to beta- adrenergic receptors. As in white fat, sympathetic stimulation promotes hydrolysis of triglyceride, with release of fatty acids and glycerol. However, within brown adipocytes, most fatty acids are immediately oxidized in mitochondria and, because of the uncoupling protein, a large amount of heat is produced. This process is part of what is called non-shivering thermogenesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_biogenesis
The master regulators of mitochondrial biogenesis appear to be the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PGC) family of transcriptional coactivators ... ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxisome
Peroxisomes (also called microbodies) are organelles found in virtually all eukaryotic cells. They are involved in the catabolism of very long chain fatty acids, branched chain faty acids ... http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n9/full/0802068a.htmlThe chlorophyll-derived metabolite phytanic acid induces white adipocyte differentiationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytanic_acid
Phytanic acid ... is a branched chain fatty acid ... ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20154154Phytanic acid, all-trans retinoic acid, and 9-cis retinoic acid were the best activators of PPARgamma expression, and the combination of 9-cis and all-trans retinoic acid was the best activator of PGC-1alpha expression (P < 0.05). phytanic acid + pristanic acid + retinoic acid from

ghee + brightly coloured vegetables

-*-

Eliminate carb + lower protein -

- very low levels of brightly coloured organic green leaf vegetables lightly cooked in ghee.
The occasional fish, also ... ... ?

Zero carb, low protein, high in complex lipids, essential minerals and vitamins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_nutrient
- very low levels of brightly coloured organic green leaf vegetables lightly cooked in ghee.
The occasional fish, also ... ... ?aa, fa, vitamins and minerals - all covered.

-*-

Alternatively this (predominantly) and ghee fried fish (every so often).

Cooking time required - seconds :p

Way too much effort required in the kitchen.

Bonus (http://www.livingpure.co.uk/vitamix-total-nutrition-centre-tnc-p-318.html)!
The Vita-Mix TNC can be cleaned in 30 seconds.

No effort *all* round.

SB_UK
07-15-11, 12:09 AM
Losss of sound quality listening to music when moving (previously) - no longer; quality retained from still to motion.

Day 14
pm - water boiled chicken -> tooth pain
1g 85% chocolate - joint fizzing (bitter tastes have become much sweeter than I remember, previously)
175g spinach cooked for 1 minute in a small amount of ghee - no pain
7ml whisky - no pain (lovely sensation in mouth)
10ml chianti - no pain
100g fish (sardines,mackerel) - no pain

:rolleyes:
~s (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/europeans-evolved-to-drink-more-2313665.html)~Westerners may be genetically programmed to eat more fatty foods and drink more alcohol ... ...
~s (http://evolvingwellness.com/posts/673/how-does-our-body-metabolize-alcohol-and-what-are-the-effects/)~Well mainly put alcohol is metabolized in our body like fat. Yes, you heard it. The body treats alcohol like fat. Using an enzyme known as alcohol dehydrogenase, the liver converts the metabolic by-products of alcohol into fatty acids.

Not Westerners - the human species; a transition to aerobic respiration/fat and away from the carbohydrate :mad::mad:.
Not too much fat, mind ... ... ...

-*-

Day 15 - final version of diet

meal 1 - 1/2 cup coffee + 7ml whisky (disinfectant) - 0 calories
(coffee without 1 slice low GI bread produces no pain)
meal 2 - 100 calories fish
meal 3 - 50 calories of kale or spinach (prepared for 1 minute in a small amount of ghee)

4-5 hours exercise.
Calories burnt (http://www.caloriecounter.co.uk/calories-burnt-by-exercise/) = 3 x 200 (walking) + 1 x 400 (cycling) = 1000

Daily calories required = 2000 (+ 1000) = 3000 calories
- 150 calories =
~ 1 lb loss of fat daily.

Hopefully - at a low level of visceral fat - systemic inflammation will be reduced to negligible.

Need to lose the addictive propensity to make this transition painless though.

There is [U]no desire for food in this state; it's quite peculiar.

SB_UK
07-15-11, 12:30 AM
~s (http://www.wikigenes.org/e/gene/e/51083.html)~ Galanin stimulates corticosterone production ... ... ...From medial hypothalamus (anorexigenic) (male archetype) (SNS)
to
lateral hypothalamus (orexigenic) (female archetype) (PNS)
at balance.
Co-existence of Acetylcholine and Galanin ...

Kunga Dorji
07-15-11, 01:59 AM
"Stiff-man syndrome (SMS) is a rare disease of progressive muscle stiffness, most common in middle age"

Many would say that becomes uncommon in middle age to the frustration of said middle aged man's partner!

N- acetyl cysteine helps drive conversion of glutamate to glutamine- and thus boosts glutathione.

SB_UK
07-16-11, 04:15 PM
day 16

1.Meal 1 - decaffeinated/caffeinated green tea
2.Meal 2 - 150g fish (from a can)
3.Meal 3 - 200g spinach or kale (cooked in a small amount of ghee)

2 slices of bread if extreme tiredness/dizziness on postural hypotension (was pretty bad yesterday - reason for no update) set in.

-*-

Feeling as though we're meant to be living close to starvation.

Yesterday - tried a series of foods which I have not been able to take previously - upon tiredness/dizziness - and didn't experience any pain.

We're meant to live as close as possible to the starvation state ?
Such that bodily housekeeping (autophagy - qinkin) is ensured ?

SB_UK
07-17-11, 03:30 AM
glutathione.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8412764
Impairments of the glutathione redox cycle in cultured endothelial cells under acidic pH conditions were measured. Glutathione-dependent H2O2-degrading activities decreased by 20% (P < .01) at pH 6 and by 51% (P < .01) at pH 4 compared with activities at pH 7.4 1 hour after a change with fresh medium. Intracellular reduced glutathione (GSH) content increased by 85% (P < .01) following the change with pH 7.4 medium. Such increases in GSH content were impaired after exposure to acidic medium.

Diet, nutrition, exercise, education ... ... ... properly social living

- for health.

anonymouslyadd
07-17-11, 04:37 AM
Feeling as though we're meant to be living close to starvation.

Why? I'm curious...

LaVieEnRose
07-17-11, 06:18 PM
.The 3 most notable osmolar solutes (stress){...}

Hmmm... ... + urea

http://www.acpmedicine.com/acp/chapters/ch1001.htm
P<sub>osm</sub>@ 2 × plasma [Na<sup>+</sup>] + [glucose]/18 + BUN/2.8

BUN - blood urea nitrogen
(protein metabolism).

The BUN component has peaked my curiosity as well. I've recently started taking digestive enzymes, including protease, and wondering if this will help.

Feeling as though we're meant to be living close to starvation.

We're meant to live as close as possible to the starvation state ?I can relate to the "extremes" you're willing to go to with your diet to keep your allergies and auto-immunity at bay. I totally get where you're coming from with this statement. and question, as shocking as it sounds.

Having been on extreme low-calorie diet regimens myself, I know first hand about the "energy" and only "needing" 4 hours of sleep a night.

On the flip side, a diet too low in calories, good fats, vitamins and minerals can lead to a host of diseases including auto-immunity and damage to myelin.

Starvation does put the body into a state of high alert, increasing the production of corticosteroids.. which I know, and understand why you're aiming for.. as does lack of sleep. But lack of sleep absolutely causes inflammation.. resulting in the increased production of these hormones. In addition, your body isn't getting the time to repair itself.. to do proper "bodily housekeeping," not that it can without proper nutrition.

2 slices of bread if extreme tiredness/dizziness on postural hypotension (was pretty bad yesterday - reason for no update) set in.

If nothing else that's an indicator that your body isn't producing enough GCs, despite (and possibly due to) these changes to promote them.


Two questions:

1. How do you find your cognitive abilities? Improved? Decreased? About the same?

2. Are you supplementing your diet with vitamins?



I can't say I have the answer; but I'm working on it myself. I eat a very strict diet of zero (added) salt, sugar, and starch. I also eat only organic meat, vegetables, fruits, and even nuts. I'll eat fish from select markets that I know aren't possibly farm-raised, and nothing processed. But I eat enough to be able to sustain a "good" night's sleep of at least 7 hours, as well as prevent extreme/moderate hypotension.

I'd love to find a multivitamin that I'm not allergic to. ;) But that would probably be too convenient. I've got to suss out what specific vitamin might be triggering activity, but for me it can even come down to fillers, or what the clear capsule is made of. :eek: :rolleyes: <- that eye roll emoticon doesn't cut it.

*sigh* It isn't fun, and it hasn't solved it, but there's been progress both with my allergies and auto-immune issues, as well as my cognition.. on condition that I eat enough.


Good luck SB, and keep us posted.

SB_UK
07-18-11, 10:03 AM
Why? I'm curious...

I think that if we eat at a level close to starvation - that our body autophages (cleans itself up) - and that failure to 'fast' results in an increased likelihood of retention of damaged (dysfunctional cells).

Attempt at googling (autophagy,diet (http://www.addforums.com/forums/autophagy%20diet)) this idea -

- appears to generate a series of pages which agree with this idea.

- first hit clicked
http://www.lowcarbforhealth.com/2010/01/autophagy-self-eating.html

Will stop there.

A lovely connection to the Athos (the healthiest place on the planet) diet !

fasting.

SB_UK
07-18-11, 10:14 AM
1. How do you find your cognitive abilities? Improved? Decreased? About the same?

Not great at the moment.
Best when exercising.
Feling rather cold much of the time.

The ideal diet, I think - is described here -
Life on Athos has changed little over the past 1,043 years. Breakfast is hard bread and tea. Much of the day is taken up with chores – cleaning, cooking, tending to crops – followed by a supper, typically of lentils, fruit and salad, and evening prayers.

So far managing

meal 1. decaffeinated green tea
meal 2. 150g fish (tinned)
meal 3. 200g green vegetable
- with 2 slices of low GI bread when desperate.

Not ideal though - sometimes feel very lethargic.
Brain drifts into a meditative/daydream state when on low calories.

The allergy and auto-immune problems are certainly on the wane
- almost vanished.

Tooth problems with peanuts today - and so that's yet another foodstuff wiped off the list.


-*-

Looking for the magic ingredient which'll wake me up

- could fall asleep now.

SB_UK
07-18-11, 10:26 AM
~s (http://www.inathos.gr/athos/en/Monk.html)~

Monasticism is one of the ways by which a man can reach God.

This is accomplished by:

[added in brackets]

solitude, [life alone with wife]
prayer, [daydream]
exercise, [pure aerobic exercise]
obedience to the Spiritual Father service [theta EEG]
fasting [subject of this thread]

I'm experiencing the attraction towards exactly this profile of behaviour.

I believe that it's the direction we're meant to take (at mental maturity).

The problem -
this state (of mind) is not compatible with the frenetic workplaces we have of present.

Luckily though - there isn't a single workplace activity which is required.

The workplace simply generates downstream problems.

A lifestyle close to Athos (to sustainability) is where we're supposed to be heading, I believe.

At mental maturity to fall into a very peaceful state of mind.

Must admit - don't much care for words when in this state.

anonymouslyadd
07-18-11, 10:29 AM
I think that if we eat at a level close to starvation - that our body autophages (cleans itself up) - and that failure to 'fast' results in an increased likelihood of retention of damaged (dysfunctional cells).

Attempt at googling (autophagy,diet (http://www.addforums.com/forums/autophagy%20diet)) this idea -

- appears to generate a series of pages which agree with this idea.

- first hit clicked
http://www.lowcarbforhealth.com/2010/01/autophagy-self-eating.html

Will stop there.

A lovely connection to the Athos (the healthiest place on the planet) diet !

fasting.

I've read about the act of fasting before and its benefits. It's really a difficult thing when society says "eat more." I find the generation that lived through the depression to be most difficult. They grew up when there literally wasn't enough food.

I think fasting on a regular basis might be healthy. We can live a long time without food...

SB_UK
07-18-11, 10:35 AM
Have the strongest feeling that we (ADDers) become stressed when we leave theta EEG (the daydream state).

SB_UK
07-18-11, 10:57 AM
I've read about the act of fasting before and its benefits. It's really a difficult thing when society says "eat more." I find the generation that lived through the depression to be most difficult. They grew up when there literally wasn't enough food.

I think fasting on a regular basis might be healthy. We can live a long time without food...

Exactly -
- trying to find the level.

Absolutely fine until I need to talk or think about something I'm not interested in -
- at which point stress/confusion.

Beginning to have the feeling that at completion of mind - that the mind doesn't work in the manner which it had -
- and switches into an 'in the now' state in which it's loathe to think about the pointless considerations which we now see, we have, up until now, concerned our lives with.

This state does not appear to want anything other than to be left alone.

Any life essential factors - house, food (for instance) - {built,farmed} for oneself.

Presumably skills required learnt some time within the first 40 years of life, a couple of months worth of training which replaces all of those many, many, many years of education which we receive in the West -

- thoroughly pointless education which goes in one ear and out the other -
because the information is of no practical use, cannot be put to practical usage.

The Athos monks, presumably, need little more than the ability to read and write.

Clearer minds, I guess, their way.

LaVieEnRose
07-18-11, 03:51 PM
Surely the body's inappropriately overactive immune system will be switched off in a near starvation state.
It's just that the body will have other things on its mind - other things - other than wasting effort 'tilting at windmills'.

I would argue otherwise. In a near starvation state your immune system will definitely be taxed, but I think it'd be working harder than ever. Putting your body under this kind of stress.. yes, it'll produce GCs but not for the purpose you're wanting them for.. just to aid the additional problems you're adding. I think you're putting yourself at risk for more problems.

Food isn't the enemy, nor is your immune system the enemy. I believe there is a way to "switch off" the auto-immune response, or at least get it in control. And I think that food, and the way you treat your body is *crucial* in this process.

Lack of nutrients, lack of sleep, over exercise.. Your body can't maintain this. I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for burn out.. and possibly disaster.

Surely - a very low plasma glucose will result - as we aerobically exercise (the more the better) -
in a need for glucose (glucose mobilization)
->- driving glucocorticoid production -

- downregulating the immune system (inflammatory response).

Doesn't that make sense ?

It does.. you're on the right track.. but a "very low" plasma glucose is not good. I'm on the same page with you as far as a *low* glycemic diet, but making yourself hypoglycemic by not eating enough isn't healthy. They're two very different things.

I get that you're wanting to stimulate your GC production, but you're stimulating it because of other factors. It's not working on the problem you're wanting it to.. it's just trying to keep you alive.. it's trying desperately to maintain some sort of homeostasis.

But no, I don't think it downregulates the immune system at all.. this kind of extremity. I think you're creating the opposite of what you're shooting for.

And the problem - that we're 'addicted' to stimulation (high blood glucose - the 'sugar rush')
- we're required to lose the addiction to raising blood glucose (external stimulation) -
- before we're ready to move onto (comfortably) - a hypoglycaemic diet.

+ exercise

->-

driving glucocorticoid production.

-*-

That's all (the contents of this post) obvious isn't it ?

Can't see any errors in that line of logic.Yes, I know the addiction to high blood glucose well. I agree that we have to "lose" that.. but for me it was gradual because I wanted to change my lifestyle completely. I slowly took bad things out of my diet and replaced them with good. It's definitely a shift! But if you're really serious about it, going from eating the high sugar/high salt/high fat content foods to eating dry spinach isn't a way to quit. It just isn't. I mean I guess some people could potentially stick with that but the shock your body would go through.. aside from the shock to your taste buds.. would be enough to discourage someone from making this lifestyle change.

Having said that, even slowly changing things.. this healthy eating is an acquired taste for those of us that have been raised, and eaten, and even indulged in the "western" diet. But I'd say the "western" diet is also an acquired taste.. and when you have calmed down your taste buds.. it's *incredible* to actually taste this food, isn't it?? Like the other day I had a mind-blowing green apple that was so yum.. and intense.. it reminded me of Sprite actually! :D hahaha

But even *smelling* Doritos (which I used to lurrrrrve) whoa! It just smells like chemicals at this point! Whoa! It's SO strong! I wouldn't be able to put that in my mouth. It would literally be painful! Am I making sense? Anyway, I'm getting carried away.

- before we're ready to move onto (comfortably) - a hypoglycaemic diet.

+ exercise

->-

driving glucocorticoid production.

-*-

That's all (the contents of this post) obvious isn't it ?

Can't see any errors in that line of logic.Yes, a "hypoglycemic diet" (food that ranks low on the glycemic index, and also eating lighter and more frequently to maintain a steady blood sugar) is something I agree with, but not one that makes YOU hypoglycemic.. meaning you're not giving your body enough fuel.

Not giving your body enough of the right fuel + exercise would indeed cause GC production, but again, not in the way you're desiring it to.

Not great at the moment. [In regards to cognition]
Best when exercising.
Feling rather cold much of the time.

Feeling cold.. is a sign your working your thyroid too hard. I'm not sure what auto-immune disease(s) you're dealing with, but I've had Hashimoto's, and have a friend of a friend who just got diagnosed with Graves'. I'm afraid, if you don't have a pre-existing thyroid condition that you know of, that you've either created one, or are creating one.

One of your posts here says you're losing muscle mass, which makes sense. When you go into starvation your body will consume your muscles before fat. It'll also consume bone to get the calcium it *needs* to maintain homeostasis. But losing that muscle is going to slow down your metabolism, even if you're working out all day long.

I just want to reiterate what I said above: Your immune system and food is not the enemy. "Let food be your medicine, and medicine be your food." -Hippocrates

SB, I'm not at all trying to derail your thread here. I feel like we're on the same page in a lot of ways.. I even believe and see the wisdom in fasting for "short" periods of time. But I don't think what you're doing makes sense, and I think it's dangerous.

Of course it's your choice, and I look forward to your updates.


Also--are you supplementing with vitamins?

SB_UK
07-19-11, 02:47 AM
I would argue otherwise. In a near starvation state your immune system will definitely be taxed, but I think it'd be working harder than ever. Putting your body under this kind of stress.. yes, it'll produce GCs but not for the purpose you're wanting them for.. just to aid the additional problems you're adding. I think you're putting yourself at risk for more problems.

Food isn't the enemy, nor is your immune system the enemy. I believe there is a way to "switch off" the auto-immune response, or at least get it in control. And I think that food, and the way you treat your body is *crucial* in this process.

Lack of nutrients, lack of sleep, over exercise.. Your body can't maintain this. I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for burn out.. and possibly disaster.



It does.. you're on the right track.. but a "very low" plasma glucose is not good. I'm on the same page with you as far as a *low* glycemic diet, but making yourself hypoglycemic by not eating enough isn't healthy. They're two very different things.

I get that you're wanting to stimulate your GC production, but you're stimulating it because of other factors. It's not working on the problem you're wanting it to.. it's just trying to keep you alive.. it's trying desperately to maintain some sort of homeostasis.

But no, I don't think it downregulates the immune system at all.. this kind of extremity. I think you're creating the opposite of what you're shooting for.

Yes, I know the addiction to high blood glucose well. I agree that we have to "lose" that.. but for me it was gradual because I wanted to change my lifestyle completely. I slowly took bad things out of my diet and replaced them with good. It's definitely a shift! But if you're really serious about it, going from eating the high sugar/high salt/high fat content foods to eating dry spinach isn't a way to quit. It just isn't. I mean I guess some people could potentially stick with that but the shock your body would go through.. aside from the shock to your taste buds.. would be enough to discourage someone from making this lifestyle change.

Having said that, even slowly changing things.. this healthy eating is an acquired taste for those of us that have been raised, and eaten, and even indulged in the "western" diet. But I'd say the "western" diet is also an acquired taste.. and when you have calmed down your taste buds.. it's *incredible* to actually taste this food, isn't it?? Like the other day I had a mind-blowing green apple that was so yum.. and intense.. it reminded me of Sprite actually! :D hahaha

But even *smelling* Doritos (which I used to lurrrrrve) whoa! It just smells like chemicals at this point! Whoa! It's SO strong! I wouldn't be able to put that in my mouth. It would literally be painful! Am I making sense? Anyway, I'm getting carried away.

Yes, a "hypoglycemic diet" (food that ranks low on the glycemic index, and also eating lighter and more frequently to maintain a steady blood sugar) is something I agree with, but not one that makes YOU hypoglycemic.. meaning you're not giving your body enough fuel.

Not giving your body enough of the right fuel + exercise would indeed cause GC production, but again, not in the way you're desiring it to.



Feeling cold.. is a sign your working your thyroid too hard. I'm not sure what auto-immune disease(s) you're dealing with, but I've had Hashimoto's, and have a friend of a friend who just got diagnosed with Graves'. I'm afraid, if you don't have a pre-existing thyroid condition that you know of, that you've either created one, or are creating one.

One of your posts here says you're losing muscle mass, which makes sense. When you go into starvation your body will consume your muscles before fat. It'll also consume bone to get the calcium it *needs* to maintain homeostasis. But losing that muscle is going to slow down your metabolism, even if you're working out all day long.

I just want to reiterate what I said above: Your immune system and food is not the enemy. "Let food be your medicine, and medicine be your food." -Hippocrates

SB, I'm not at all trying to derail your thread here. I feel like we're on the same page in a lot of ways.. I even believe and see the wisdom in fasting for "short" periods of time. But I don't think what you're doing makes sense, and I think it's dangerous.

Of course it's your choice, and I look forward to your updates.


Also--are you supplementing with vitamins?

Thanks - the problem I'm having is that only decaffeinated tea, spinach (kale,chinese cabbage) (cooked in ghee), red wine and fish - don't produce pain.

So - meat, frut, tomatoes, dairy products, onions, any caffeinated drink, nuts, sugar (even a small amount), starch -
- all cause pain.

Either joint pain, tooth pain, asthma, blocked nose or allergy.

-*-

Wondering whether close to complete elimination of body fat -
down to ~5% body fat will stop this tendency to inflammation.

So - lose visceral fat - and then resumption of a slightly higher calorie diet - with some carbs.

It would be wonderful to have a breakdown of the quantities of food (and calories) which're consumed on Athos.

We know which foods they eat - though don't know the quantities
- would be wondeful to know exactly how many calories they're eating and how they incorporate fasting into their regime.

I believe that they alternate between 2 meals and 1 meal a day.

Would be lovely to see their daily calorific intake quantified.

-*-

Beginning to believe that a low calorie diet filled with ample green leaves is the healthy option.

Would know for definite if we could get our hands on a quantified daily food/exercise record of the monks.

1000 years of maintaining their diet - and recognized as the healthiest community in the world.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 02:54 AM
http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?8332-Mt.-Athos-diet-and-good-health
... ... simple diet (no meat, occasional fish, home-grown vegetables and fruit) may, however, also protect them from more worldly troubles.

It just seems to me that they're eating a predominantly vegetable diet - with little protein and few (? 500 calories a day) calories.

Would love a breakdown of their food intake, alongside some measure of the (apparently significant) levels of aerobic physical exercise they engage in each day.

-*-

I'm finding that a low calorie diet puts my mind into theta EEG.

A sort of 'screensaver' mode.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 03:18 AM
http://kitchenmadonna.blogspot.com/2009/12/go-monastic-try-cistercian-diet.html
Hundreds of years ago, monastic communities thrived on one hearty, main meal a day centered on high protein rustic bread. Vegetables, legumes, and fruits and smaller portions of dairy and eggs rounded out the main meal.It should be easy to nail the ideal human diet.

We've thousands of years of history to draw on.

-*-

Absolutely positive that if we were to look at the quantified diet and exercise levels in all ancient monastery communities - that we'd find the same basic pattern - and that this pattern 'd be what we should aspire to.

That kinda' research could be completed in a week or so - at close to no expense.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 03:27 AM
http://dharmicjourney.blogspot.com/2006/05/eating-buddhist-for-healthier-way-of.html

Eating Buddhist for a Healthier Way of Being

low salt
low calories
no animal products - meat/fish
no onions/garlic
light eating
food as medicine

SB_UK
07-19-11, 03:31 AM
The pattern from the three sources above
- appears to be -

some bread + plenty green vegetables
some oil + spice
low calorie + fasting periods

Most notable - the low protein intake in all three diets.

-*-

Could be completely wrong though.

Scandalous that so much money is spent on healthcare - when a small study costing next to nothing (a detailed analysis of the diet/exercise performed in the monasteries of the world) is all we need.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 12:42 PM
~s (http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/nutrition/11867/Prostate-cancer-protection-by-stress-free-existence-away-from)~
Many of the monastic communities on Mount Athos eat twice a day, and
have bread and tea for breakfast and a supper of lentils, salad and
fruit, except during the rigorous fasting periods of the Orthodox
Church, when some will eat only at midday.
There's something very, very wrong with the guidelines for daily food consumption in the West.

The average Western diet is much, much, much to heavy in calories, protein, carbs, fat ~etc~

and the quickest way to discover what we need - would be to follow a few monks from various orders - and record their intake and level of physical activity.

We've thousands of years of history to fall back on - all we need is the data.

I believe that the rigorous fasting days on Athos number ~100 days.
And that they're only able to eat a little olive oil and wine on 3 days of the week.

-*-

? 500 calories per day consumed ? (on average)

Really need to know.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 12:57 PM
... ... only "needing" 4 hours of sleep a night.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Mount_Athos
A morning service, known as "Matins" or Orthros, which begins at 4 AM ... ...
There's a pattern forming.


We need to eat next to nothing to be healthy.
That pattern of eating puts us into theta EEG (a low energy requiring state of mind) which is set to {daydream, prayer, meditation}.
The Western world is set to alpha EEG and higher - requiring more food to keep us in this state - more food which kills us.


We (thereby) have a very, very significant problem.
We somehow need to make the Western world tolerant of the stress-free, reflective state of mind (theta EEG) which the monk enjoys.

-*-

It's impossible to live in theta EEG in a Western world build on hate (capitalism, materialism, money, ownership, division, class hierarchy, workplace bullying).

People, generally, are not aware of how unpleasant their words betray their minds to be.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 01:17 PM
From which understanding we arrive at ADD.

Predisposed to monastery style.

Predisposed to that low (nutrition) requiring state of mind.

The ADD-Inattentive daydream.

-*-

Eat too much - and watch as our physical health implodes.

SB_UK
07-19-11, 01:19 PM
Thanks - the problem I'm having is that only decaffeinated tea, spinach (kale,chinese cabbage) (cooked in ghee), red wine and fish - don't produce pain.

Bombay mix appears fine too. :p

Day 19
Now - simply striving towards an elimination of all visceral fat - in the hope that its close to absence will calm systemic inflammation.

TNFa - the cytokine which is everywhere.

(S.S.)

SB_UK
07-19-11, 01:24 PM
Metabolic Syndrome

Low birth weight
Fast catch up growth (through eating too much)
Metabolic syndrome (in middle age) - from having eaten too much from birth into middle age -> diseases of Western living

Very simply - we're (ADDers particularly) eating much too much food.

Post-WWII (the trigger) emergence in a new species - ADDers - predisposed to properly social living (structure of our minds)
- set to low nutritional needs -
having to live in a world where our favoured state of mind is not allowed.

Absolutely definitely correct - the mind's desire (my mind's desire) for as long as I can remember - has been for it to find itself in theta (idling) mode.

No irritating speech, no pointless spoken discussion - all of that's the stuff of primitive minds - stuck within the delusion.

Living life in this current world is as frustrating to the ADDer, as a very sleepy person being repeatedly woken up on the absolute verge of falling asleep.
A form of torture - I believe, one might describe it as (the ADDer living within this current nonADD primitive world).

-*-

The monastery food diary is all we require to determine what we need for optimal health.

qinkin
07-19-11, 01:56 PM
Fluoride?

Higher levels found in --
Grapes (raisins, wine), Tea (green esp), SeaFood, Water?

SB_UK
07-19-11, 02:33 PM
Fluoride?

Higher levels found in --
Grapes (raisins, wine), Tea (green esp), SeaFood, Water?

Amazing connection.

That's it - grapes, red wine, green tea (decaffeinated), seafood.

The exact set of foods which do not produce pain.

Jinxed
07-19-11, 03:26 PM
SB UK,

Very intersting post. I am glad you have stumbled up what the amazing effects of a good diet can do for you.

I'm even more impressed that you have discovered that their are different cultures around the world from ages past that have had remarkable health. Let me tell you about a few more..

The Waoroni Indians, a group of hunter-gatherers from the Amazon were discovered to have no instances of heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes, obesity or even the COMMON COLD. They eat a diet of meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts , seeds

The Maasai tribe in Africa. A group of pastoralists who in their traditional diet ONLY ate substances from a cow. They ate the beef and made yogurt. That's about it. No veggies or fruits. No heart disease, perfectly healthy ..etc..

The Inuit (eskimos) living up near the artic they went without and fruits or veggies for looong stretches of time..months and months went by and they would only eat seal blubber. Once again, very healthy.

The Kitavan Islanders..only eat fruits, veggies, coconut and fish. No acne, no heart disease, no obesity, no memory loss in old age....


These different societies ate widely different diets yet they all showed remarkable health..why? Well it is probably less important what you do eat, then what you don't eat.

and what not to eat... Processed sugar, processed grains, processed vegetable oils...when these tribal societies have been introduced to these foods their health plummets.

That is why Michael Pollen is his best selling book "In Defense of Food" recommends eating FOOD. That is stuff a caveman could eat. Stuff closest to its natural state as possible.

I have done a lot of research into nutrition over the last few years and I currently do a paleolithic diet. It's a diet that consists of meat, fish, shellfish, vegetables, fruits, and nuts.

I don't eat grains. I do cheat and eat dairy..although many think I shouldn't. I do. I love cheese and yogurt. The literature on dairy is debatable.

My blood tests show I'm to quote my doctor "the picture of health".. I used to have terrible allergies, which I don't get any more. moods swings, stress, low energy..all of these have diminished while eating a paleo diet. .I'm happier now, it's helped my ADHD a bit, I rarely get sick. Only once in the last two years..and that is when I cheated on my diet, and barely slept for two weeks while partying on vacation.

Here are some good websites for you to check out

Whole health source

Marks daily apple.

qinkin
07-19-11, 07:11 PM
I've actually been attempting to remove the main sources of flouride from my diet.. I'm drinking only purified water (that I bought from the store, or filling up gallons of drinking water containers at my mother's house cuzz she's got a good filtration system) that has undergone at least reverse osmosis.

No flouride toothpaste. No tea. No grapes. I don't eat that much fish anyway. Been feeling a bit clearer.. Fluorine suppresses the function of the thyroid (among many other things). Fluorine is not really used for anything necessarily in humans. Iodine is necessary. Fluoride is not, F usually causes problems over time

http://www.fluoridealert.org/pesticides/epa-sf/table.4.iq.behav.pdf

http://fluoridationqueensland.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/F.IQ-Children-China-.pdf

http://www.nofluoride.com/presentations/Fluoride_content_food_%26_beverages.pdf

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/toxicchemicalsan/a/flouride.htm

F flourine

I don't know everything but hey, maybe it helps some people? I don't see how flourine could be desirable for health, though.

SB_UK
07-20-11, 03:15 AM
So - the solution is just a little of 'proper' food.

From the Buddhist, Cistercian, Mount Athos monasteries, and the Waoroni, Inuit and Kitavans - all foods appear to be acceptable.

So the key is natural (unprocessed) + low calorie (? 500 calories daily) for optimal health.

Would love a figure on the daily calorific intake of a healthy community, alongside a value for their energy expenditure.

SB_UK
07-20-11, 03:23 AM
I don't know everything but hey, maybe it helps some people? I don't see how flourine could be desirable for health, though.

Something to do with Calcium ?

At mental maturity - if our pH range tightens about 7.4
- then (not making much sense (here) - just an idea) -
will we (through pursuit of the acidifying diet) degrade our own calcium store (the bone) and re-distribute into soft tissue ?
Where fluoride somehow helps by forming a complex with calcium ?

Don't know ... ... ...

Fluoride calcium sequestration from the blood stream, mobilized from bone, through eating the wrong (acidifying diet) ?

High circulating calcium - problems ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorticoid
GC suppresses calcium absorption.

-*-

As simple as - we're degrading (through acifidication) ourselves from the inside - leading to higher than physiologically acceptable circulating calcium levels - which activate (are associated with) - inflammation

eg (http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/2/201.full)

Inflammation, CRP, calcium overload and a high calcium–phosphate product: a ‘liaison dangereuse’

Calcium intake - too high
Acid (the wrong diet) based food intake - too high (degrading our bone - leading to calcification of our soft tissues).

Acid seas kill off coral reefs (http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/water/80_percent_of_coral_caribbean_reefs_destroyed.htm)

THE world’s coral reefs could disappear within a few decades along with hundreds of species of plankton and shellfish, according to new studies into man’s impact on the oceans.

SB_UK
07-20-11, 03:46 AM
Day 20 - shifting to

1 1 slice bread + decaffeinated green tea
2 1 slice of bread + 150 g fish + green vegetables
3 green vegetables

supplement with bread if weak.

(continue to try and maintain 4-5 hours exercise daily)

Really can feel the shift in mind from reducing calories - it's not bad - though isn't the type of mind which can exist in our current Western world.

This type of mind is more {measured/tortoise} than {frenetically pointless, attention-seeking hare}.

-*-

ADD represents the emergence of a new species which operates optimally when in application of our social mind (entering theta EEG throughout our waking lives - like the monk) - and with reduced requirement for food intake (accordingly); the reduced food intake (dramatically so) is the commonality between the healthy communities.

Simply to eat little - but what we eat, required to be 'real'.

The alpha (children, people who speak) versus theta EEG (properly adult, people who reflect) problem is an issue.

Can't sport a theta EEG mind in an alpha EEG world.

A monk would not be able to survive in the 'noisy', messy, aggressive enviroment which primitive nature (materialism) has constructed.

Jinxed
07-20-11, 10:15 AM
So - the solution is just a little of 'proper' food.

From the Buddhist, Cistercian, Mount Athos monasteries, and the Waoroni, Inuit and Kitavans - all foods appear to be acceptable.

So the key is natural (unprocessed) + low calorie (? 500 calories daily) for optimal health.

Would love a figure on the daily calorific intake of a healthy community, alongside a value for their energy expenditure.

Here is the average caloric intake for the Kitavan Islanders.

2,198 calories a day. They happen to be very short people, so this is probably on the low end of what you would need. But as you can see they are very muscular, despite never going to the gym!

ttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_er_Nmxnv4TM/TCJCFj3GVGI/AAAAAAAAAhk/Us5HkpP85JY/s1600/kitava01.jpg

The Maasai tribe are of normal height, perhaps even tall and eat over 3,000 calories per day.

http://www.africhoice.com/wildlife_photos/maasai_moran_photo.jpg


I think that monks can exist on so few calories because they spend most of their time in near motionless prayer and expend far less energy.

Emerging scientific data, will tell you not to count calories, instead eat until you are about 80% full, as is a famous saying in many traditional communities.

Jinxed
07-20-11, 01:57 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_er_Nmxnv4TM/TCJCFj3GVGI/AAAAAAAAAhk/Us5HkpP85JY/s1600/kitava01.jpg

Kitavan Islander

anonymouslyadd
08-05-11, 03:08 AM
I thought this article was interesting.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-and-nutrition-pictures/6-food-cures-that-can-change-your-life.aspx?xid=aol_eh-diet_5-_20110801&aolcat=DFT&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl7%7Csec1_lnk2%7C83609#/slide-8

SB_UK
11-02-11, 08:14 AM
just ideas ... ... ...

- have been thinking about the thyroid hormone for days and days now ... ... ...

The connection between hypothyroid/hyperthyroid and ADD-I/ADHD is never far from mind - there're just too many connections.
My wife noticed that I had 'poppy outty' eyes on dexedrine ... ... a giveaway connection to thyroid function.

However - we're going to need to separate off thyroid function in nonADDers and ADDers - to the tune of increased sensitivity.
Continuing on from the Barliman 'reward theory' thread in science subforum
- I think that the ADDer and nonADDer have different optimal insulin, leptin, thyroid hormone and different optimal circulating glucose, fat and protein levels.
I think that the ADDer is more sensitive to nutritional load - needs a lower level of circulating energetic molecules and a lower level of their associated hormones.

That the ADDer has a more efficient metabolic profile - which translates through to a more sensitive biochemistry - great for survival in times of low nutritional availability -
terrible for existence in this current Western world of excess.

An idea brewing (taking its time!!!) - not sure where it's going to go - that ADDers are biochemically optimized as low level (and close to nothing else) protein eaters.

Insulin resistance leads to leptin resistance leads to thyroid resistance (as leptin drives hypothamic TRH expression).

There's a lovely protein, carb and fat ménage à trois :-)
- but who's the boss ?

Carbs are the joker in the pack which disrupt biochemistry.
Fat - the middle wo:-)'man'
and
Protein - the 'alpha and omega' ... ... ... since protein can generate both fat and carbs
... ... not aware though of a mechanism for fat or carbs to generate amino acids - they're (surely) at least 1 nitrogen short ... ...

Wondering whether ADHD is simply a more efficient biochemistry rendering us more sensitive to nutritional load -
- that because it's sensitivity - that we can't look at circulating (absolute) levels of fat/glucose/protein or leptin/insulin/thyroid hormone

- that the absolute levels won't mean anything ... ... ...

... ... but if we're more sensitive to fluctuations in circulating carbs/fat -
- how do we know how much to eat ?

Switch to slowly metabolized (vegetable protein isolate) protein (the dominant part of the Athos and Buddhist diet) and let the body choose how much fat and carbohydrate it wants
- from the synthetic pathways of gluconeogenesis and fatty acid synthesis.

Now - testing out this theory - just ordered and am trying 100% whey isolate.
Metabolized very quickly - it's accompanied by a surge in blood sugar (I feel pain on drinking 20g at once, it's the same pain as experienced on eating carbohydrate)
... ... ... it feels as though the amino acid surge is being fed directly through to a blood sugar surge by gluconeogenesis.

It feels a little like we're dinosaurs (as this happens) out in the wild - grabbing a bite out of the backside of some other dinosaur - and getting a surge in energy (blood glucose) which helps us (gives us the energy) to go in for the kill.
It turns out that beef is the fastest of metabolized protein sources (faster even than whey protein isolate)
http://skinnybulkup.com/wp-content/uploads/protein-absorption.jpg
- which means that the amino acids translate more quickly into a surge in blood glucose levels ... ... ... (I think)
- easily tested (this idea) in the laboratory.

So - the idea is - is that (and in line with the very low birth weight and then very fast catch up in size and then development of Metabolic Syndrome X in middle-age)
- that the ADDer is a more efficient metabolic creature - but that measuring levels of circulating energetic components/hormones - won't help to identify our issue
... ... that we need fat, carbs and protein
- though, are slightly different in that we need less - certainly less than we get in the average Western diet
- suffer resistance (and MUCH more easily because of our sensitivity) first to insulin, then leptin, then (consequently) thyroid hormone -
suffer hypothalamic thermostat insensitivity to factors which then trigger disease.

Worse still - suffer hypothalaic insensitivity and hence perceived need of much more (for satiety) ... ... of much higher levels than we need.

We exhibit insulin, leptin and thyroid sensitivity through 'design' and fall easier victims to insulin, leptin and thyroid resistance
- consequently.

Designed for slowly metabolized (exactly as you suggest - eggs give the sensation of satiety for the whole day) - high quality pure plant protein only diet.

Proteins differ from carbs and fat - in that there are only 20 or so versions - of which less than a half are 'essential' ... ... ... evolution would be doing a wonderful job, if it's operating to make us *less* dependent on external factors for survival ... ...
stipulation of only a handful of amino acids requried post-metamorphosis would be a significant step towards making us 'physical' world independent.

Thinking David Bowie 'take your protein pills and put your helmet on'.

http://www.her-motorcycle.com/images/IMG_2985.jpg

Perhaps a 10g pure slowly metabolized vegetable protein 'hit' every 3 or 4 hours ... ... ...
- easily determined in the lab with a buncha' wise ADDerats :-).

The problem I'm having with this idea - is that - it feels harsh to eliminate carb and fat intake completely
- no - that's not it - it's the artificial nature of the idea ... ...
- no - that's not it either - because we're built on top of a carnivorous (pure protein only diet) ... ...

The problem I'm having with this idea - is that ... ... ... it involves a totally different optimal metabolic profile between ADDers and noADDers
- no - that's not it - that's to be expected from evolution ... ... ...

Hmmm... ...

The problem I'm having with this idea is that it would require a technologically modified diet (removing casein from whey, growing quorn in large biofermenters etc)
- no - that's not it - technologically modified only for the vegan/vegetarian
... ... ... where it's difficult to find pure protein alone ... ...

- so ... ... ideally I'd like to take a small step back from advocating a pure protein diet
([I]or would I ? - it's a very attractive option through the eyes of efficiency (and laziness - I HATE :-) COOKING) ... .... ...

Cold turkey.

Cold turkey and Cold turkey alone (as a pure protein and as a placeholder for pure vegetable protein) alongside exercise would allow insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone sensitivity to be returned
... ... and the period of hypothyroidy which occurs as fat levels (therefore leptin) drops and as leptin resistance is dispelled to leptin sensitivity ... ... as leptin returns us to sensitive TRH expression and normal (appropriate) levels of thyroid hormone production return -

- like having a thermostat which activates our central heating system only when we're well beyond uncomfortably cold

Cold takes on new meaning during cold turkey !

Experiencing it currently.

Carbohydrate and the class of illicit drug operate through the exact same mechanism.

Both induce tolerance/resistance - different words bearing absolutely no difference in meaning.

Close to convinced
- ADDers (post-metamorphosis (mind)) are destined to becom pretty much pure protein eaters - the more slower metabolized the better (see graph above)
- the faster metabolized - the smaller the amount consumed, the more regularly.

Presumably - judging by the Mount Athos 2 meals a day alongside exercise/intermittent fasting
- a veggie protein diet can be reduced to a couple of sessions per day.

But then again - it's very warm in Greece ... ... ...

All of these thoughts and many more (including the idea of disorganization in the cell cycle and its relationship to disorganization in the logical structure of mind)
- driven by Barliman's mention of thyroid hormone -

where I've just discovered that it's well known that metamorphosis (classical - in the animal realm)
- the formation of novel complexity (emergence) in structure via unstructure (exactly as we see in the cell cycle
or mind)
- occurs by virtue of drive of Thyroid Hormone.

Thyroid hormone - drives carb + fat based metabolism - as though we require carb + fat elevation in league with thyroid hormone to drive metamorphosis
(formation of mind -> wisdom (the human metamorphosis cycle))

- though where afterwards, we ?? require ?? neither (exogenous fat/carb intake) -
... ... are left with (in our case and because of the excesses of fat/carb intake prior to the transition in the particularly sensitive (at risk) ADDer)

... ... are left with a system which needs to be re-equilibrated down to basal levels of fat/carb intake.

Cold turkey - the restoration of Insulin/Leptin and Thyroid sensitivity by altered food intake pattern, reduced food intake pattern, increased aerobic exercise pattern, increased muscle deposition, intermittent fasting ... ...
The triumviracy of Big Gay Al, The Chef and Butters ... ... ...

A pure protein diet ?

~ So ~ Summarising a hectic post (thinking out loud)

In ADDers alone (in nonADDers - the same pattern applies without the sensitivity to carb/fat/protein - though without the increased likelihood of making the transition).
ADDers are gifted with a simpler route to wisdom, bear a more efficient neural structure which makes falling victim to 'belief system' (rather than a global logical structure) less likely); we don't believe the hype, because our mind won't allow us to.



Too much carb/fat intake prior to metamorphosis (transition to wisdom) isn't a good thing - imagine Mr. Creosote the caterpillar exploding before his time to turn into a butterfly (mid-30's at the earliest) arises.
Toleration of carb/fat intake prior to metamorphosis.
Switch to pure protein afterwards (though too much).
ADDer disorder prior to transition - inappropriate diet, education and after transition to wisdom - the after-effects of an inappropriate diet, continued eating of an inappropriate diet and also attempting to live life (stressful) in a world which makes LESS sense than our own minds will allow.


ADDers - born into nutritional efficiency ?
Low levels of fat/carbs (the levels found in real food) permitted prior to transition.
Post-completion of mind (thyroid hormone driven metamorphosis in which male-female duality/pair-bonding formation occurs at level of mind
- to be vizualized in exactly the same manner that 2 cells form from 1, during cell division ... ...

Post-completion of mind
... ... low level of protein only required - any more (especially carb, including fat, though also protein (observations on whey protein isolate above)) results in excess energy which is forced to be used
- leading to diseases of excess.

The ADDers great advantage (that we don't need to eat much prior to, and especially after the transition to wisdom) - becomes our very great downfall in this world of excess, which breaks our internal, neural regulatory circuit (the hypothalamus).

Where the higher levels of fat/carbs eaten prior to metamorphosis than needed by the already more sensitive ADDers in transition - leads to a decoupling of mind (hypothalamic satiety) from bodily needs - which requires urgent solution

- a period of cold turkey to intense aerobic exercise, muscle building, intermittent fasting and most importantly a radical change of diet towards pure slowly (or fast if one must) protein ?

That kinda' idea ... ... ... still thinking though ... ... because ... ... there still feels as if there may be something missing from the story ... ... ...

Where're the holes ?

Next post - trying to break / work out the holes in this idea.

The basic idea then is that the classical disease of hyperthyroid/hypothroid is rediscovered in the ADDer - though that because of our sensitivity - we're not able to make any conclusions from recording absolute levels of circulating energetic molecules/hormones of metabolism.

2 different species.

Homo sapiens sapiens.
Homo neosapiens sapienses.

Definitely.

[Though the new species aren't exactly as the old species'd envisage - we need to look through the eyes of evolution first, prior to the eyes of the individual to make sense of the transition which we're witnessing
- in the emergence of ADD.]

Abi
11-02-11, 08:19 AM
SB,

As it is you suffer from depression. At least be hedonistic and eat drink and be merry.

By the way complexy carbs have a feel good factor that eliminates some of one's depressed feelings. Salt provides essential sodium.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 09:04 AM
In particular, recent discoveries suggest that the adoption of agriculture, supposedly our most decisive step toward a better life, was in many ways a catastrophe from which we have never recovered.
--- Jared Diamond

We've picked the foods (for agriculture) which gave us 'pleasure'
- not those which ensure proper trundling of our mortal jalopy.

ADDers are simply gifted (relative to nonADDers) with an easier path to wisdom.

Yes, sadly it's true that the clinician in metabolic medicine and endocrinology (and epidemiology thereof) (and as they well know!!) may consider themselves vindicated in booting all of their colleagues offa' High Table (in the annual Christmas party for medical specialties)
- and instead of singing 'Rudolph the red nosed reindeer' - breaking into a spontaneous chant of 'We are the champions of the world !'.

And now look at what's happening ?

The Irish contingency appear to have had a little too much port and are celebrating a little too vigorously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghpE4Ig-pA

Oh dear, the entire room'll have a Sor head tomorrow :-)

SB_UK
11-02-11, 09:10 AM
...

... the clinician in metabolic medicine and endocrinology (and epidemiology thereof) ...

The Irish contingency appear to have had a little too much port and are celebrating a little too vigorously.

:rolleyes: ... ... the clinician/scientist in {diabetes, metabolic medicine and endocrinology} (and epidemiology thereof) ... ...

zannie
11-02-11, 09:12 AM
Cold turkey and Cold turkey alone (as a pure protein and as a placeholder for pure vegetable protein) alongside exercise would allow insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone sensitivity to be returned
... ... and the period of hypothyroidy which occurs as fat levels (therefore leptin) drops and as leptin resistance is dispelled to leptin sensitivity ... ... as leptin returns us to sensitive TRH expression and normal (appropriate) levels of thyroid hormone production return -


Why cold turkey - does the meat protein source matter? Or a vegtable protien source?

SB_UK
11-02-11, 09:39 AM
SB,

As it is you suffer from depression. At least be hedonistic and eat drink and be merry.

By the way complexy carbs have a feel good factor that eliminates some of one's depressed feelings. Salt provides essential sodium.

Aye! salt and complex carbs are bad boys.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110711151451.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/

With highs :eek: come l.o.w.s :mad:.

Balance is the key.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_way
"... he ... realized the meaning of the Middle Way when he sat by a river and heard a lute player in a passing boat and understood that the lute string must be tuned neither too tight nor too loose to produce a harmonious sound."

SB_UK
11-02-11, 09:50 AM
Cold turkey and Cold turkey alone (as a pure protein and as a placeholder for pure vegetable protein) alongside exercise would allow insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone sensitivity to be returned


Why cold turkey - does the meat protein source matter? Or a vegtable protien source?

Pretty sure that the source doesn't matter since essential amino acids are essential amino acids.

The only difference between protein sources (which needs to be considered) - is the speed at which they're metabolized.

Similar in principle to the difference between equivalent carbohydrate loadings - one from a high and the other from a low glycaemic index food.

Give the same person the high rather than the low glycaemic index food - and he'll do worse (in the long run); it's generally accepted that particularly high levels of consumption of high glycaemic foods (white potatoes, flour) is bad
- just pushing the idea of hyper/hypo-glycaemia into the world of proteins.

'Fast and Slow' proteins are a relatively new idea to me.

~s (http://www.wholefoodsmagazineonline.com/product-profiles/product-profiles/benefits-whey-and-casein-under-one-roof)~
Q. Why is whey—particularly whey isolate—considered a fast-acting protein?
A. The concept of “fast” and “slow” acting proteins was first described in the literature by Boirie et al. in 1997. Whey, a protein derived from milk, is considered fast-acting because unlike casein, its impact on postprandial (i.e., after eating) protein metabolism is fast, high (i.e., a lot of amino acids are available immediately) and transient.

I've observed a similar reaction to 20g whey protein isolate and white flour product consumption - in the teeth.

Thinking the arrival of caries to the species only upon switching to a carb-based (agricultural cereal) diet.

Increased sensitivity in the ADDer to bacterial growth in the mouth - the very same bacteria which'll - if they continue to be encouraged - lead to caries ?
Low level pain and a very definite and unpleasant smell accompanying their growth.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 10:02 AM
General feeling then - that upon completion of mind, that we need less nutrition - across the board - perhaps just a small amount of protein.
That ADDers on the way to completion of mind can handle more carbs/fat than they can upon completion of mind.
That nonADDers on way to completion of mind can handle more carbs/fat than ADDers on way to completion of mind.

That ADDers and nonADDers upon completion of mind have the same basic vastly reduced need for nutrition - predominantly just the handful of amino acids which're listed as essential.

That restoration (from resistance) of sensitivity to insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone sets in place a functional thermostat which allows the completed mind of ADD/nonADD to eat as wisdom requires (not much).

The pull to carbs, fat, salt (primitive reward mechanism) is defused upon completion in mind.

Sorry for the repetition - just typing out loud in order to work out whether this idea makes sense.

It'd be nice, upon recovering usage of our satiety machinery - if we might recover a mechanism which'd allow us to eat all of protein, carbs, fat
- just appropriately.

That recovery of metabolic hormone sensitivity 'd occur with that period of cold turkey (a period of eating only protein) -

But but but - why are you trying to re-introduce fat/carbs back into the diet ?

I don't know; it'd be much neater to have 10g 9 essential amino acid pills which we pop when we feel the need ... ... ... Ground control to Major Tom "what do you think ?":)

A changing relationship to food - from quantity to quality.

The general pattern which we appear to be observing if we take a surreptitious look through the window of one of them there fancy schmancy French restaurants.

From

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzMYUnh_9CFy0a6wFJ6vtlyuGrf8Jhi DECYMgODTXrbsj-OQinsQ

to

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqfpPj-WS4tvl26ZZFnU0Sg-PcWU0mPllSDL8HMVjZuK3A4WH2CA

-*-

A speciation event from which a quantity desiring switch to a quality loving (particularly in moving interactive sound and image) community.

Quality loving at whichever level (neural) quality, as a term, may be served; the more the domains in which quality may express itself - the better for the quality loving community.

Just less of the material world quantity already
- the world is dying

- and what matters to us is the virtual reality of external reality projected (hence virtualized) internally.

We don't actually know the outside world - we know a copy - where we don't need to confuse ourselves over what is real, when considering this idea
- simply need to realize that a virtual projection loving species may be served through virtual sensory stimuli
:-)
(particularly high definition interactive moving images and high fidelity music) ... ... ...

I don't care what it tastes like - only that it leads to optimal health (first), is easy (second) and third - does not lead to uncontrollable vomiting (counter-productive).

[ooops - and combats hunger]

:-)

zannie
11-02-11, 10:08 AM
Aye! salt and complex carbs are bad boys.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/)/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/)

Thanks for the protien clarification SB.

I want to point out a discrepancy from the post above. It is my understanding that complex carbs (vegtables, whole grains etc.) have a lower glycemic index than simple carbs (sugar, white flour, white potatoes etc.)

This link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/

is about simple carbohydrates which defo play havoc on our entire systems. But which, unfortunately, are so difficult to quit:(:(:(:(:o
I totally agree that they are addictive!

SB_UK
11-02-11, 10:53 AM
So - the pursuit of quality at every level which quality may be used as a term, in.

http://i.digiguide.tv/up/0906/702824-NinaandT-12457863230.jpg

Nina and the Neurones (taste, touch, sight, sound and smell) provide us with an introduction into this idea - though quality far extends beyond these 5 basic senses.

I see quality incorporating elegance, efficiency, architectural design, sustainability, scalability ... ...

- incorporating an individual's own comfort in his/her own body (strength,flexibility,superficial physical integrity).

- incorporating the ease of transition into the meditative state of mind (a biggy!) when it comes to quality of life.

So what is quality of life ?

Living a life in line with the prime directive of performing tasks which're logically in the best interests of current and future generations - which opens up not only an end to anti-social behaviour
- but also positive action towards generating systems which'll give future generations pleasure, without costing them the earth.

We're in the middle of a debt based global economic system which with every passing day 'kicks the can' a little further down the road - strangles future generation's prospects for life by making the fundamentals (of food, house, education and transport) unaffordable.
And the dawning emergence of our capacity for optimal fulfillment close to divorced from the 'real' world.

A cross-roads for the species where we're due (any moment now) for the materialist (primitive) motivation to leave the building.

Earth version II (The Hitchiker's guide to the galaxy) occurs upon the end of the world (as we know it)
- a change in perception of reality, through a collective evolutionary leap (emergent event) in abstraction of view of our own perspective of our relationship in context of phenomenological (and elsewhere) reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIrI80og8c

SB_UK
11-02-11, 11:18 AM
/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/)

Thanks for the protien clarification SB.

I want to point out a discrepancy from the post above. It is my understanding that complex carbs (vegtables, whole grains etc.) have a lower glycemic index than simple carbs (sugar, white flour, white potatoes etc.)

This link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/

is about simple carbohydrates which defo play havoc on our entire systems. But which, unfortunately, are so difficult to quit:(:(:(:(:o
I totally agree that they are addictive!

I think I think that any carbohydrate bar those listed with no glycaemic index (the non-starchy vegetables) are off the menu.

Was working under that assumption - until I discovered that most of the vegetables remaining (the cruciferous non-starchy set and soya products) - are off the menu for reasons of thyroid health.

Slowly but surely almost every foodstuff we eat is crossed off the list.

I'm left with a shopping list bearing just 1 item - oily fish.

Any food bearing a glycaemic index (eg wheat,lentils), any dairy (casein) food, cruciferous vegetables, soy derivatives, red meat (fast metabolized protein), alcohol (unpleasant narcotic effects), acidifying foods ... ... ... the list goes on.

Just oily fish remains on the list.

I'm not yet convinced - haven't that certainty feeling on this idea - yet.

Tending towards protein pills to get us through life (basal survival) and keeping quality alive (not wiping out that entire sensory system) by switching our motivation to eat away from necessity and onto enjoyment (quality)
- eating for the development of the internal neural system which is required to come alive to discriminate between subtleties in taste ... ...

... ... and not by unrelenting dictat of Evil Emperor Drongo of Bongo - ruler of the near distant inner Primitive Reward Sytem in space, a place where the imminent citizens of Earth Mk. II have been battling for the longest of times.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 11:43 AM
No idea where this idea just came from - purines.
~s (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=51)~ Choi's work has demonstrated that purines from meat and fish clearly increase our risk of gout, while purines from vegetables fail to change our risk. Back around to Perhaps a 10g pure slowly metabolized vegetable protein 'hit' every 3 or 4 hours ... ... ...Apologies for the fast switching between ideas - just not 'there' yet... ... ...
the idea doesn't feel right.

If we were to have a perfectly tuned metabolic hormone sensitivity - what'd we (then) eat ?
Keeping the door open to a very small amount of everything (for pleasure / quality) - what'd a sensible evolutionary system require us to eat upon completion of the task of mind ?

It'd make sense - since the mind offers us so much potential - for the state post-completion of mind to place as little absolute requirement on the body for external nutrition ... ... ... to place required stimulation under the individual's control (through use of their mind)
- and to separate us away from the absolute need for factors beyond our control (crop survival, animal survival ~etc~) to define whether we live.

You're not answering the question - what'd be sensible for us to require to survive post-completion of mind ?
As little as possible.

Where should that 'as little as possible' come from ?
Wherever.

What'd stop us from overating ?
A functional satiety mechanism with Insulin/Leptin and Thyroid hormone sensitivity restored.


What'd it be sensible for us to require to survive post-completion of mind ?
Darn - changing again ... ... ...
As little (not as much) as our brain/mind wants of *real* food (living green things first and foremost) - as long as the primitive reward system (addiction) is overcome and the brain's nutrition thermostat is restored
- to eat as little (not as much) as one's own mind/brain (thereafter) deems.

And so the answer to the question is ?
Not particularly much of a predominantly real (plant) protein enriched diet.

But what of the fat and carbs which'll accompany the protein ?
No worries.

OK - so you've managed to re-introduce vitamins, minerals ~etc~ in this diet - but it's not quite as simple as protein pills ... ... ...
Which one do you want ?

~*~

Just a sec... ... there's a war going on in my head with oily fish, vegetables, vegetable protein isolate, monounsaturated and saturated fat all making a convincing case for retention.

And there's another voice suggesting that there can be no resolution between all of these 'proper' foods - that one's can take it upon one's own body to indicate when it's full, as long as the primitive reward system is dispelled
- and proper metabolic hormone sensitivity has been restored.

Love the idea of popping protein pills.

Cooking requires washing up.

And whilst it's true that I don't actually (apparently I am not gifted in rinsing) do any washing up, even the principle doesn't seem in keeping with the principle of 'quality'.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 12:18 PM
Sorry - missed the 30 minute deadline.

No idea where this idea just came from - purines.
~s (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=51)~ Choi's work has demonstrated that purines from meat and fish clearly increase our risk of gout, while purines from vegetables fail to change our risk. Back around to Perhaps a 10g pure slowly metabolized vegetable protein 'hit' every 3 or 4 hours ... ... ...Apologies for the fast switching between ideas - just not 'there' yet... ... ...
the idea doesn't feel right.

If we were to have a perfectly tuned metabolic hormone sensitivity - what'd we (then) eat ?
Keeping the door open to a very small amount of everything (for pleasure / quality) - what'd a sensible evolutionary system require us to eat upon completion of the task of mind ?

It'd make sense - since the mind offers us so much potential - for the state post-completion of mind to place as little absolute requirement on the body for external nutrition ... ... ... to place required stimulation under the individual's control (through use of their mind)
- and to separate us away from the absolute need for factors beyond our control (crop survival, animal survival ~etc~) to define whether we live.

You're not answering the question - what'd be sensible for us to require to survive post-completion of mind ?
As little as possible.

Where should that 'as little as possible' come from ?
Wherever.

Aaarghhh - the idea's changing again ?
And - do you think I don't know.

What'd (though) stop us from overeating if the answer's whatever from wherever ?
A functional satiety mechanism with Insulin/Leptin and Thyroid hormone sensitivity restored (and a choice of food restricted to 'real' (derived from life)- not artificial).

What'd it be sensible for us to require to survive post-completion of mind ?
Darn - changing again ... ... ...
As little (not as much) as our brain/mind wants of *real* food (living green things first and foremost) - as long as the primitive reward system (addiction) is overcome and the brain's nutrition thermostat is restored
- to eat as little (not as much, because without the primitive reward system and with sensitivity to metabolic hormones - less will be required) as one's own mind/brain (thereafter) deems.

And so the answer to the question is ?
Not particularly much of a predominantly real (plant) protein enriched diet.

But what of the fat and carbs which'll accompany the protein ?
Don't worry about it.

OK - so you've managed to re-introduce vitamins, minerals ~etc~ in this diet - but it's not quite as simple as protein pills ... ... ...
Which one do you want ?
... ... ...

~*~

Just a sec... ... there's a war going on in my head with oily fish, vegetables, vegetable protein isolate, monounsaturated and saturated fat all making a convincing case for retention.

And there's another voice suggesting that there can be no resolution between all of these 'proper' (real, once living) foods
- that we can take it upon our own body to indicate when it's full, as long as the primitive reward system is dispelled
- and proper metabolic hormone sensitivity has been restored.

Love the idea of popping protein pills though; it's easy.

Cooking requires washing up.

And whilst it's true that I don't actually (apparently I am not gifted in rinsing) do any washing up, even the principle doesn't seem in keeping with the principle of 'quality'.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 12:49 PM
And there's another voice suggesting that there can be no resolution between all of these 'proper' (real, once living) foods
- that we can take it upon our own body to indicate when it's full, as long as the primitive reward system is dispelled
- and proper metabolic hormone sensitivity has been restored.

So - is that the right idea ?

Real (once living - organic, fresh vegetable protein rich) predominantly, eaten as the restored function of the hypothalamus dictates.

But cereals - wheat ~etc~ (hyperglycaemic agents) were once alive ?
Yes - but I can't eat them - at least I can't eat processed sugar and flour products without feeling pain.

So - you're suggesting that you eat all of the foods which match your criteria (in orange - above) and which (in addition) you can eat ?
Good point - wholly unsatisfactory solution.

You've suggested that the switch to agriculture has been a disaster for man.
You've suggested that eating animals/fish is both wrong and unsustainable ?
You realise that you're running out of options ?
Yes - unless the problem is quantity.
If the problem is quantity, then there is a solution.

You are suggesting that with a loss of the primitive reward system and metabolic hormone sensitivity restoration that reduced levels of food intake are to be expected ?
That's right - thanks for the breather.

So - anything else to add ?
Still thinking ... ... ... the change in perspective over the last few posts has occurred dizzying quickly.

You're not satisfied with delegating responsibility to your hypothalamus are you ?
No - but then again, the body seems to do a pretty good job more generally - and I wouldn't want to take conscious control of things like heart and respiratory rates ... ... ... I'd just end up forgetting ... ...

Come on - what's the problem ?
You're not going to be satisfied until we can exist without the need for food - are you ?
That would be it.

I can understand that.
Yup - me too.

Still thinking ... ... ...

qinkin
11-02-11, 02:26 PM
http://www.filmsforaction.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmsforaction.org%2FWatch%2 FForks_Over_Knives_trailer%2F&feature=player_embedded
the Torrent was easy to find .

How Can Eating Excess Protein Raise Blood Glucose? (http://lowcarb4u.blogspot.com/2009/07/how-can-eating-excess-protein-raise.html)

First, when branched-chain amino acids enter a muscle cell, they promote protein synthesis

Second, if there is an excess of amino acids in the muscle cells, the surplus branched-chain amino acids enter the pathway of energy production

The glucose-alanine cycle explains why it is possible to have an elevated blood glucose while eating essentially only meat and fat.

If this pathway is correct, it shows that excess amino acids not only provide the raw materials for glucose synthesis in the liver, but they also require additional glucose synthesis in the liver in order to allow branched-chain amino acids to be converted into energy.

SB_UK
11-02-11, 02:40 PM
Changing the story a little more ... ... ...

The hypothalamus should not be considered to be behaving poorly, as I think it might be assumed from reading the posts above.

The endocrine system oversees metamorphosis.

Well understood in the animal kingdom - thyroid hormone is known to trigger metamorphosis.

The life cycle of an organism which undergoes metamorphosis is heavily tied into the endocrine system (the sex hormones, Thyroid hormone and steroid hormones -eg- ecdysone).

In an organism undergoing metamorphosis (human beings INCLUDED) - it's impossible to hard-wire a biological system - it needs to have the flexibility to encode change.

The disorganization to unstructure - reorganization to complexity occurs in the logical structure of the mind; from developmental (incomplete mind) to wisdom (global logical consistency).

Presumably elevated circulating fat, carbohydrate and protein are required for development to proceed and for the transition to be seen; a transition in man which involves thyroid hormone, exactly as thyroid hormone is the trigger in metamorphosis in the animal kingdom.

The primitive reward system (to eat too much) needs be kept alive until we've made the transition; with the transition comes freedom from the primitive reward system - we are not driven to eat.

So ... ... after this post - rapid departure from the model of 'broken hypothalamus needs retraining' - to necessarily flexible hypothalamic food intake regulatory mechanism which sorts itself out (re-calibrates) post-transition to wisdom and no sooner.

What's nice about this latest twist to the story ?

There's a delightful lack of need to rely on the pretty darn unreliable human mind for anything.

A transition (to wisdom) in which the human mind is (albeit required to house sufficient information as understanding)
- the human mind as confused spectator of the show -
looking somewhere else entirely as the transition occurs (is applied) to the structure which 'knows' (does our knowing - reflects the perspective which we confuse as 'ourselves' when we use the term I in 'I think' ...) ... ... ...
I* think that it's ... ... ...The transition to wisdom relates to a change in the structure of the logical structure which I* actually represents - which speaks the word I* meaning itself
- from incomplete to complete
- where local logical global illogical consistency takes on global consistency upon transition, and where the parochial belief system (I* prior to transition) is lost to a mind which sees that all of the belief systems which people believe are real (local realities - the collection of I* pre-transition to wisdom) can be forced together - with the occasional parts lost, those parts lost if illogical for the whole (species) to retain ... ... ...

- the most important aspect of social infrastructure which we must combat is money.

I think that people (generally) know why.

From yesterday's newspaper:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/8863298/The-Occupy-London-Stock-Exchange-protest-camp-outside-St-Pauls-Cathedral.html?image=7

From the financial pages - we're currently watching on as the descendants of The Holy Roman Empire and Greek Empire
- the historical agents for money being introduced in its current form in society - fight amongst themselves to reverse the damage caused -
- from the drachma of classical times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_drachma) to the Medici (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici).

SB_UK
11-02-11, 03:07 PM
http://www.filmsforaction.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmsforaction.org%2FWatch%2 FForks_Over_Knives_trailer%2F&feature=player_embedded
the Torrent was easy to find .

How Can Eating Excess Protein Raise Blood Glucose? (http://lowcarb4u.blogspot.com/2009/07/how-can-eating-excess-protein-raise.html)

:-)

Nothing to add to any of that information - absolutely to all of it (the ideas on filmsforaction, message of the Youtube video and personal experience of blood glucose surges on 'fast-acting' (whey) pure protein (20g) isolate intake).

SB_UK
11-02-11, 04:46 PM
double post

SB_UK
11-02-11, 04:56 PM
30 minutes ago (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2011/nov/02/greek-pm-referendum-debt-crisis#block-41)
If, as feared, the IMF does withhold the €8bn aid package then Greece could run out of money by the end of next week.
Between November 5th and 11-11-11.

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An end to corrupt government, money and war.

SB_UK
11-03-11, 08:06 AM
~s (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?8332-Mt.-Athos-diet-and-good-health)~Their low-stress existence and simple diet (no meat, occasional fish, home-grown vegetables and fruit) may, however, also protect them from more worldly troubles.
Stress.

The answer isn't to be found in what we're supposed to be eating - it's to be found in the nature of stress which drives us to eat.

The hyperglycaemic highs of the stress reaction followed by (as night follows day) cavernous lows.

The cavernous lows drive the desire to get 'high' - the hyperglycaemic food entices irresistibly.

Hyperglycaemic foods re-inforce the need for more hyperglycaemic foods to tolerance (insulin resistance).

The problem though begins with stress.

Fix the (unsupportable) stress and metabolism will fall into line.

~s (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?8332-Mt.-Athos-diet-and-good-health)~Their low-stress existence and simple diet (no meat, occasional fish, home-grown vegetables and fruit) may, however, also protect them from more worldly troubles. Problem - relationship between stress/remodelling/inflammation; these terms may be used synonymously - in the journey to build mind some stress/remodelling/inflammation is necessary.

It'd be nice though if the stress/remodelling/inflammation might be self-inflicted (the uncontrollable desire to build mind - particularly evident in the ADDer - 'you've known all your life that something is wrong') and not controlled by people/factors beyond one's control -
the price of land, property, food and education.

-*-

Freedom required from the material world, but only the material world which human beings have a habit of driving a flag into and then charging 'entry'.

No problem with continued dependence on external world factors which no individual can drive a stake into - we're (after all) sun, oxygen, water dependent creatures
- and there is no internal desire (that I can find) to overcome our reliance on these things.

The problem we have - is dependence on anything which some other human being can control - because primitive human beings under the control of the primitive reward system generally find a way to develop some iniquitous system (generally - the world around - called the [contract] law) ... ... which allows them to use their lawyer friends to use their law enforcement buddies with guns and uniforms, to hurt people who disobey their rentier capitalist ways.

What's the connection between this idea and what we should eat ?
The desire not to eat isn't fuelled by the desire to be external world independent, it's fuelled by the desire to be human being independent
- or rather free of the controlling desires of the primitive reward system (the primitive human being who 'is' tantamount to that primitive reward system (since reward drives behaviour))
- that primitive human being (aka primitive reward system) so (completely) defined by materialism, that it's difficult (impossible) to open his eyes.

An emergent leap is required for 'vision' to be gained.

-*-

So what're we supposed to eat ?

How about the Athos diet minus the list of foods which the T2Diabetic can't eat (thereby eliminating blood sugar fluctuations) - with the important part being IN A STRESS FREE world.

Where STRESS FREE is defined as only the stress which comes from having to pay for the small handful of 'things' which are a requirement to survive.

The stress (remodelling) associated with development of mind and metamorphosis are absolutely retained.

All that's lost - is the stress from worrying about whether food, heat, shelter, information and transport can be obtained
- all (in the next world :-) (Earth mk. II)) guaranteed co-operatively by people working together and doing for ourselves.

-*-

So ... ... ... the cure to the diabesity (and associated (the diseases of Western living) disorders) epidemic which is sweeping the planet and which leads to untold harm representing the removal of money (and a system introduced such as the one described above)
- and back to the question of

And so what're we supposed to eat ?
How about the Buddhist/ Mount Athos community diet minus the list of foods which the T2Diabetic can't eat (thereby eliminating blood sugar fluctuations) - with the important part being IN A STRESS (defined as above) FREE world.

And do you believe this solution ?
Eating nothing (upon wisdom) fast followed by protein pills still appeals.

Why ?
Because of the effort required in generating all of this food.

Would you be happy if we could show that death from starvation could be averted for an indefinite time on a diet of next to no whey protein swilled down with ghee ?
http://notsoperfectpw.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/sacredcow.gif

Why?
Because it doesn't take any fossil-fuel based pesticides, insecticides and fertilizer to grow grass.

Is it likely that evolution would generate a species which could power without requirement for food ?
A solar powered existence has been demonstrated elsewhere.

Maybe in the future ?
... ... maybe

- if you've a spy in the House of Brain - I'd be able to answer the question of optimal nutrition at wisdom with more conviction if you could obtain some data on what Stephen Hawking eats.
And whilst we're at it, it'd be nice to collate data on the outside temperature, physical activity and exact diet in communities of humans the world over.
Wondering whether as the external temperature diverges from our ideal range - whether saturated fat is required to step up to the mark.

How about:
- the Buddhist/ Mount Athos community diet minus the list of foods which the T2Diabetic can't eat (thereby eliminating blood sugar fluctuations) - with the important part being IN A STRESS (defined as above) FREE world.
Saturated fat intake increase dependent on extent of aerobic activity and outside temperature ?

The dietary requirements of

nonADDer in development
ADDer in development
nonADDer/ADDer at wisdom

- left to the the letter of their own saiety mechanisms - with only 'safe' foods (those listed above) available to eat and without the stress which warps our central hypothalamic nutritionstat 'out of whack' to tolerance/resistance to insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone ?

SB_UK
11-03-11, 08:26 AM
... without the stress which warps our central hypothalamic nutritionstat ...
The solution to what we should eat simplifies all the way back to 'go develop a properly social society at a species/planetary/global level' and the level and type of food which you'll require will simply 'fall out' of the new system.

Life under unmanageable stress (even if we don't realise we're under it) won't permit us to trust our own mind/brains in matters of food intake regulation for optimal health.

How can people remain unscathed by news story after news story describing avoidable human suffering occurring throughout the world ?

Attempting to suppress awareness of one's own internal level of stress does not mean that the individual is not stressed - more means that the stress reaction is freed to wreak havoc on our internal biochemistry.

-*-

So stress-free leading to lower attraction to hyperglycaemic agents of our destruction.
Elevated levels of carbohydrates and fat in circulation from the Athos minus T2D diet driving thyroid hormone triggered metamorphosis.
Reduced levels of circulating carbs and fats following transition to wisdom.

No need to consider differences between ADDer, nonADDer in development or post-development in a low stress/altered profile of food availability in the supermarket
- we can trust the individual's appetite regulatory mechanism to do as it will.

Essential requirement - availability of simple information to allow construction of mind (holistic)
- absolute need for academia to learn how to use natural language.

The realization that the transition to wisdom occurs with pair-bonding
- a kinda' crystallization event in minds from the individual to species

... ... ... just a sec. :eek: the story's changing from the acquisition of wisdom on an individual level to species-wide enlightenment ... ... ...

It certainly is true - absolutely no way to disagree that once a complete model of reality is agreed upon by at least a couple of people (is communicated)
- that by the rules of science and hence by mind (and hence by the very real phenomenological logical structure of mind)
- that all other logical models expressing incomplete scope will (by virtue of the globally explanatory model when exchanged (expressed, communicated) ... ...

- that a globally internally consistent logical model expressed should invalidate all lesser belief systems ... ... or rather should force rationalization of all belief systems (logical structure underlying locally logical globally illogical belief systems) ... ... ...

What are you trying to say ? :rolleyes:
That no parochial belief system (which encodes any level of harm to any member of the species as a whole (and future generations)) can continue its existence post-development of a globally logical perspective.

The rule in science is that the simplest most explanatory model of reality wins.
The rule in science is a statement of how the logical structure which represents us (our own perspective) works.

What are you trying to suggest, using the film 'The Highlander' ?
There can be only one :rolleyes:.
We become human upon acquisition (on a species level) of the global model of reality (bearing complete logical consistency) -
built over a definition of God (unknowable) -
an absolute requirement for we 'phenomenal' structures
- though without any means to know.

Just a fleeting encounter during the unstructure of the transition (metamorphosis) -
resonance post-transition and return into the frame of incoherence of God to phenomenal reality upon physical death.

So both Heaven on Earth and Heaven when we die - conditional on completing the pattern of metamorphosis from caterpillar to :-) butterfly.

Nearly there ... ... ...

zannie
11-03-11, 08:31 AM
Is it likely that evolution would generate a species which could power without requirement for food ?
A solar powered existence has been demonstrated elsewhere.


SB - This reminds me of a fruitarian philosophy on diet. Still, I think food would always be required in all possible scenarios. Where is it demonstrated - solar powered existence?

zannie
11-03-11, 08:34 AM
Attempting to suppress awareness of one's own internal level of stress does not mean that the individual is not stressed - more means that the stress reaction is freed to wreak havoc on our internal biochemistry.


So are you saying that stress only wreaks havoc on our biochemistry when it is suppressed? Or that: stress causes more harm to our biochemistry if the awareness of it is suppressed.

I see you are drinking de-caffinated green tea. Maybe high water content fruits and vegetables? Low energy expenditure in preparation especially for fruit. But protien? <!-- / message -->

~boots~
11-03-11, 08:34 AM
I am allergic to carbs...
They make me fat ;-)

SB_UK
11-03-11, 09:02 AM
.
SB - This reminds me of a fruitarian philosophy on diet. Still, I think food would always be required in all possible scenarios. Where is it demonstrated - solar powered existence?

~s (http://www.bamboogarden.com/care.htm)~Bamboo if planted in a suitable site (full sun for most, partial shade for some) and given ample water can grow and eventually thrive. However ... ... ...But if you want a healthy attractive vigorous plant, you must fertilize. Not sure - looking for a convincing argument which kills off any prospect of human beings become potentially ostensibly only sun/water requiring organisms (for survival - like bamboo (food maybe an added extra)).

The mind (up until completion) is a bit of an irritation (the arrogant know-it-all selfish belief systm) - hoping that upon completion (wisdom) it has better in store.

The human species hit 7 billion people, a day or so ago.

Apparently we're already well beyond the carrying capacity of the planet - I think E-boy's comment related to planetary food production capacity.

Excellent post
Actually I was suggesting a diet a little older than recorded history which starts around six thousand years ago or so. As far as the modern mind being different... Modern minds haven't changed that much. Modern hunter gatherers, of which there are a few left, still eat this diet and they are every bit as modern and you or I physiologically.

As far as protein intake from flesh being a problem goes I can't argue that a vegetarian diet is a more efficient use of limited resources. Having said that there are options available to us even at ten billion people. Ocean fisheries, properly managed (and no they are not properly managed now), have been estimated to be capable of sustainably feeding ten billion people.

I'm bit on sustainability. The wake up call for me was realizing that we are already exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet in several ways with our current economy. That being the case, a collapse isn't an if it's a when. It's not just about carbon or pollutants. It comes done to including ecological costs in doing business. Something we don't do at present. We, as a species, have yet to successfully produce a self sustaining artifical ecology. We've tried a few times and failed. The Biosphere Two project being the last major attempt. It left it's occupants with nerve damage and collapsed. The upshot of this is that we are destroying the only working biosphere we have and can't duplicate the services it provides. Species diversity isn't valuable just because it's pretty. It's valuable because it provides services we cannot duplicate. Insects alone provide about 70 Billion dollars worth of economic services a year in north america just through pollinating crops and other agricultural services. As yet we have no substitute for them. In short failure to manage our existing ecology in a way that preserves services like these cannot continue indefinitely. It's a game of diminishing returns. What's more it is no longer a worry for our grandkids as the scale of the effects we are now producing is global and is already having major negative impacts we can feel. Agriculture production is actually decreasing for the first time in decades since the green revolution. Due largely to what modern agricultural methods do to soil. I think the average topsoil loss in the bread basket of the united states is nine feet so far. Soil we aren't replacing. Water usage also comes into play. The U.S. for example is largely dependent on "fossil water" for agricultural production these days. The big aquifer we water most of the bread basket with is a finite resource and does not replentish at any significant rate (percolation rates are measured in thousands to tens of thousands of years which is far slower than the rate it is being used at). It bears mentioning that modern agriculture is also utterly dependent on petrochemical fertilizer which requires oil to make. Oil, of course, is not a renewable resource and about a fifth of the oil the US uses is for agriculture.

So yeah, lots of stuff needs to change. To me the really messed up part is that most of these changes needn't be horrible unpleasant providing we start making them in a reasonable amount of time. People don't have to starve themselves. Population control can and should be exercised. Economies can and should include the cost of ecological remediation. It will make food more expensive, and fuel too, but it will also drive innovation in directions that support sustainability and those costs will stablize.

I sound lilke a total greenie weenie. It would be more accurate to call me a science buff. I'm not the sort to chain myself to a tree, but I'm just the sort to look at the evidence and decide that it's time to take measures to preserve a high quality standard of living for all. I don't pretend that the changes that need to be made will be kind to all life styles or industries. The good news is they will likely create as much in the way of work and industry as they diminish.

What does this have to do with ADD? Not much really. Except maybe that folks like us could come in real handy for the big picture divergent thinking that needs to be done.

SB_UK
11-03-11, 09:31 AM
I am allergic to carbs...
They make me fat ;-)

Insulin is the great God of fat (but not for much longer); it deposits it, spares its use and is the source of much unhappiness to pink ladies.

Of all the confusing things for the body to do - to lay down fat but not upon eating fat -

- upon eating fat's evil relative - Carbo'hydrate.


http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CC&Date=20100203&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=2030330&Ref=AR&maxH=230&maxW=370&border=0&Q=80&cb=20100203004500

That's him up there.

Carbo'hydrate is sneaky and nestles out of sight behind Fat's voluminous presence
- poking fun.

Fat needs to be given a heavy handled metal wok and urged to turn around and violently and repeatedly slap Carbo'hydrate soundly about the head -
- and to repeat this basic procedure for a couple of months, in which time, Fat's frown will turn to a smile to beaming through her multiple size reduced completely new and perfectly fitting pink and fluffy haute couture.

Fat Name change imminent

... ... and all of this could be yours - just remember to slap Carb'o'dude over the head ... ... ... actually whenever it takes your fancy.

He must pay for what he has done to you, pink ladies of the world around but not for much longer.

http://www.livsstil.co.uk/images/uploads/hancock%20london%20wok.jpg

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CC&Date=20100203&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=2030330&Ref=AR&maxH=230&maxW=370&border=0&Q=80&cb=20100203004500

SB_UK
11-03-11, 02:50 PM
Low energy expenditure in preparation especially for fruit. But protien? <!-- / message -->
~s (http://www.butterflyzone.org/butterfly-articles/butterfly-food.shtml)~The composition of nectar has been studied extensively. It has been found that the nectar varies from one plant species to another plant species. It is a balanced food containing carbohydrates, proteins, lipids (fats), minerals, vitamins and water. The carbohydrates are the major content of nectar.

Everything in moderation.

(You have no idea how much that idea dissatisfies)

Everything 'real' in moderation (to the tune of a functioning hypothalamic satiety mechanism).

Ideally, the answer should be 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 12, 13, 24 or 42.
kitavan
~s (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/08/kitavans-wisdom-from-pacific-islands.html)~ Our niche happens to be a particularly broad one, ranging from near-complete carnivory to plant-rich omnivory. But it does not include large amounts of industrial foods.

SB_UK
11-03-11, 03:53 PM
~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15324369)~ Low birth weight in combination with catch-up growth predicts the occurrence of the metabolic syndrome in men at late middle age~s (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/7/26)~ Numerous studies have reported increased rates of ADHD diagnosis and symptoms in case control studies of low or very low birth weight children.

The Lilliputian of the same information content as the Brobdingnagian
- 'cept much more efficiently.

Evolution likes crystallizing efficient data structures out from the space/time matrix; hates 'dinosaurs'.

Completion of mind (generation of a globally logically consistent model of reality)
as a crystal structure incorporating all of our minds
- incorporating all of us
- since when the mind uses the term 'us' it is referencing the logical structure which encodes it.

When the mind (we) use the term 'I' - it's nothing to do with the physical object that the logical structure thinks, when it's a child (immature mind) it represents
- when it looks in the mirror -
and is best thought of as the ghost (logical structure, software) in the machine (physical body, hardware).

Software to Hardware; an abstraction layer separation.

Fast catch up growth when exposed to the same level of potential nutrition -
- increased metabolic efficiency (ADDer).

Increased sensitivity to circulating nutritional factors and hormones (ADDer).

Increased sensitivity to resistance (Syndrome X in middle age) (ADDer).

-*-

Insight gained on metamorphosis.

What is insight ?
Simply - deconvolution of reality into an understanding of the individual's abstraction layer (separation) composition.
Separation of conflation of the individual's own understanding of self into an abstraction layer separated (though, of course sequentially connected) body and mind.

A leap in abstraction - in understanding of the self.

A separation of the conflated (mixed-up) self away from materialism (the belief that the self is a physical construct) into freedom from material attachment
freedom from material attachment = the understanding/knowledge of the abstraction layer basis to phenomenological reality (in its entirety) and of the interconnectedness of all abstraction layer constructs in phenomenological reality into continuity, linked together by a sacred (the geometry of unknowable) thread.

Reward Systems

We shift from motivation 1 (reward system 1)
to
motivation 2 (reward system 2)

Reward system 1 appears to motivate us towards metamorphosis (transition)
Reward system 2 motivates us afterwards

Reward system 1 is alive until wisdom is attained.

Reward system 1 consists of pretty much all of the behaviours which're listed in the '7 deadly sins'.

An expression of original sin.

We're meant to overcome reward system 1 with pair-bonding and mind.

Food intake is meant to entice (primitive reward system - activation of the dopaminergic system through blood glucose elevation) until we undergo metamorphosis.

We're drawn to caterpillar like eating (primitive reward system activation) excesses until the reward system is deactivated.

Reward system deactivation occurs with the experiential perspective of no longer wanting blood sugar elevation (fluctuation) -

... ... and so now you're suggesting that the individual simply adopts the correct path (generally) (pair-bonding and a personal exploration of reality (natural sciences)) and allows their own appetite regulatory mechanism to re-calibrate with transition ?
That's a similar solution to previously.
Yes.

Problems ?
Transition isn't guaranteed, the primitive reward system is relentless
- to alter the profile of foods available in the supermarket - to eliminate processed, industrial foods
- to limit the amount of harm we can do ourselves whilst we're primitive reward system victims to 'imprisoned will'.

Recipe for disaster - ADDers with increased sensitivity to circulating nutritional levels of fat, carbs and protein (leptin, insulin and thyroid hormone)
- in an industrialized food environment in which food is engineered to reward (elevate) circulating levels well beyond physiologically acceptable bounds.

Hormonal resistance decouples physiological need from satiety - we program our own premature demise.

We've (in effect) engineered food, like illicit drugs, to favour a stronger 'hit'.

Weak hit with low GI 'soya and linseed' bread versus immediate hit with the white loaf of bread.

-*-

So what're we supposed to eat ?

Lots before (of 'real' foods) and Little after (of 'real' foods).

But cereals are 'real' foods ?

Lots before (of 'real' foods) and Little after (of 'real' foods) which a T2Diabetic can eat without exacerbating (and in the process improving symptoms).
Our niche happens to be a particularly broad one, ranging from near-complete carnivory to plant-rich omnivory. But it does not include large amounts of industrial foods.Everything 'real' in moderation (to the tune of a functioning hypothalamic satiety mechanism).

qinkin
11-03-11, 04:55 PM
Interesting, E-Boy's post. Man, I missed that one.

nO salt- uncheck
no sugar- uncheck
no starch- uncheck

;) - check

Grandma passed 11/1/11, age 97

. she set the bar pretty high. . she seemed involved w/being healthy, her heart seemed to have wore out

Why the heart doesn't wear out w/age or exercise. (http://www.medhelp.org/general/hrt-wear.htm)

Your heart, for all practical purposes, doesn't wear out. It's estimated that the theoretical age limit for human beings -- the age beyond which the body ceases to be able to repair itself effectively -- is about 115 years. There's no reason to think the heart wouldn't still be beating strongly at that age, barring disease or injury.

Some patients have asked me why aerobic exercise -- walking, jogging, swimming, etc. -- doesn't shorten the lives of those who undertake them by increasing the heartbeat significantly. That assumes your heart is good for only so many contractions before wearing out. On the contrary, such exercise actually strengthens the heart, raises its pumping efficiency and slows the accumulation of atherosclerotic plaque. No, it was being unable to afford to have her knees replaced. I think that caused her death, to happen earlier. She wasn't able to walk for about the last 10 years of her life. She wasn't obese either, no dementia either it seemed. But she kept physically active until these things prevented her from remaining so.

Jacque Fresco (http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy)- about 95-96.. She reminds me of him, somewhat. Will have long conversations, even at that age.

http://orlandoweekly.com/news/the-view-from-venus-1.1217175

Though Jacque Fresco has been alive for nearly a century, he walks the 22-acre campus of his property in Venus daily

SB_UK
11-04-11, 04:59 AM
Thanks to LynnC.

The story's changing again.

~s (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/11/does-high-circulating-insulin-drive.html#more)~ This suggests that insulin resistance in the liver can lead to whole-body insulin resistance, which is interesting.These studies suggest that insulin sensitivity in the liver is important for whole-body insulin function, and that low-grade inflammation can impair insulin signaling in the liver, just as it does in other organs. Alongside ... ... ...

~eg (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12351432)~ Removal of visceral fat prevents insulin resistanceVisceral fat, the abominal cavity with its embryologically developmental impossible to learn greater and lesser omental sacs ~aka~

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/the-very-hungry-caterpillar400x300.jpg <- the abominal problem (stress, inflammation, remodelling)
- different words reflecting the same physical transition occurring in parallel with the formation (completion) of mind.
The caterpilalr to butterfly requires remodelling on a massive scale - complete loss of structure, disorganization and then re-organization at higher complexity
- the pattern we observe in the human *mind*.

From second brain (gut) to first brain (duh!!).

And so now what're you suggesting ?
That the transition in what we eat occurs naturally based on transition in mind from developmental to completion (wisdom).

Again - not a million miles away from previous suggestions ?
Almost no emphasis now being placed on what we should eat - the suggestion that pushing for the transition (and completion) will sort that aspect of behaviour out.
It's not as if the butterfly fights suffers the pain of the desire to eat (and eating) like a caterpillar
- just not considered.

-*-

The story then changes to visceral fat loss in the centre with completion of mind leading to metabolic hormone sensitivity which alters our food intake.
Thanks to LynnC for the reference

SB_UK
11-04-11, 05:37 AM
This is it ... ... ...
stress

Stress -> cortisol -> visceral fat deposition -> inflammation (drive to remodel) -> remodel brain/mind to alleviate stress -> completion of mind -> remove
Stress

no more stress (a new societal infrastructure, one which does not require money)

An actual emergent event driven in the logical structure of mind
- from incomplete to replete (sated).

- a state in which we realise that 'love (a blissful resonance) is all you need'.

Physical body inflammation driven by Incompletion of mind -> completion of mind resulting in properly human society -> elimination of stress -> elimination of
Physical body inflamm... ...

SB_UK
11-04-11, 12:14 PM
So are you saying that stress only wreaks havoc on our biochemistry when it is suppressed? Or that: stress causes more harm to our biochemistry if the awareness of it is suppressed.<!-- / message -->

I see :); cortisol resistance (sitting above insulin, leptin and thyroid hormone resistance).

Cortisol resistance in the particularly stress sensitive (ADDer).

Cortisol/glucocorticoids sit at the head of the high table of shame.

Stress is there to be overcome; we can overcome stress with construction of mind -

with construction of mind, we can identify and eliminate all sources of stress which we feel
- by identifying, understanding and taking steps to escape an environment in which these stresses continue to apply.

Ther should be no such thing as dental disease (caries) - eliminating a whole buncha' processed / unprocessed carbohydrates from the table.

It's not right - considering all of the lengths which we're going to (to eliminate stress) - for us to continue with animal farming methods which cause animals discomfort ... ... ...

Education should be easy to understand and free.

There should be no such thing as money.

We should live sustainably.

Sharing should become the norm. in a raw material limiting environment.

-*-

Stress (remodelling, inflammation) - in man - an underlying chemical impetus to develop mind (and remove stress).

Cortisol -> visceral fat (central adiposity) -> inflammation (remodelling)

Cortsol (stress from living illogically from the perspective of all of species wellbeing)
-> visceral fat (central adiposity)
-> inflammation (remodelling)
-> remodel brain (mind) to eliminate stress
-> reshape society to eliminate persistence of stressor
-> No
Cortsol (stress from living illogically ... ... ...

The vicious cycle discontinues.

Completion of mind.
--- Ved -anta

SB_UK
11-04-11, 06:15 PM
~s (http://www.comforteating.com/stress.html)~ The Priory Clinic carried out a survey that suggests that over 40% of adults in the UK admit to Comfort Eating when they feel anxious, lonely, sad or stressed.
"We tend to choose foods such as chocolate and biscuits when we're feeling low ... reward ..."Comfort eating (need for reward) when stressed.

With mind, we're under constant stress when we see the things which people do in the world outside; activation of CRH.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfKyxM1d2YlUR1Bp9Ai17VWcUl3aQKK THe4mphLa_n-kh4qIdh4Q

Chronic cortisol activation (from stress) and attempted negative feedback de-activation of itself (which fails) because of the higher level (mental) stress which is feeding down.

There can be no functional negative feedback whilst the mind is switched on - presumably the system works whilst the mind, though, is asleep.

Presumably the system can work when the mind is bypassed.

How ? (http://stress.about.com/od/stresshealth/a/cortisol.htm)

Guided Imagery
Exercise
Yoga
Listening to Music
Breathing Exercises
Meditation

All variations, in one way or the other, of transcending linear conscious mind - of switching off the voice.

What does the voice want ?
The voice which is reading these words will disappear at will, as soon as the mind is balanced; can be recalled at will if so desired.

Why are vows of silence so popular in monasteries ?

Our role in life (at birth, first mind) is to rid ourself of the belief system logical structure we're born into - by generating a globally logical system of belief from our parochial belief system.

The voice of the belief system is a close relative of this deeply irritating chap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txp19ZNtFn8

A true believer in his own very subjective opinions.

What happens to the irritating voice at wisdom (global logical consistency) ?
It can offer no (because it has no) opinion, at least no opinion which is worth offering to another person - for what use is the expression of a subjective opinion to another person ?

Communication restricted to globally applicable facts which're required for the species to survive and prosper - no further interest in the labes which people use to discriminate between themselves - during the 'ego' (pair bond partner location and then :-) adhesion) I'm stuck on you.phase of the human life cycle.

-*-

Stress ('pain')
-> POMC ->
a-MSH (comfort eating)
b-endorphin (pain relief)
ACTH (glucose mobilization into the bloodstream)
b-lipotropin (fat mobilization into the bloodstream)

Sweetness (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_sucrose_the_sweetest_sugar)
Lactose is less sweet than glucose is less sweet than sucrose is less sweet than fructose

~s (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000698)~ Intense Sweetness Surpasses Cocaine Reward

-*-

So imbalance in our system (from mind) resulting in stress (pain) requiring pain relief.

pain, stress imbalance -> requiring counter-balance from <- excess (to ordinarily required) sweet, stimulant, dopamine

We'd like to be balanced - for the standard hypothalamic negative feedback loops to work their physiological homeostatic mechanisms.

They can't though - as long as mind is on and is incomplete on an individual and social infrastructural level; the individual need sport a balanced mind though within a moral social framework - it's not possible for wisdom to be stress-free in a world of money.

-*-

What are we supposed to eat ?
A bit of everything 'real' available to the T2Diabetic in a stress-free environment isn't enough.

This diet however includes animal.
Includes casein.
Includes wheat.
Includes sugar.
None of which seems right.

-*-

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zULJExxrW54/TKjTvYFVGzI/AAAAAAAAAsQ/pVO3OmTXyhI/S1600-R/Header+2.jpg

Fructose

Fructose (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081209221742.htm) drives "increases in glycogen (stored glucose) and triglycerides in the liver."

-*-

Pain (stress from an illogical life) leads to balance by reaching for sweet food (fructose at the top of the list).

Pain -> stress -> ACTH (glucose mobilization) + b-lipotropin (fat mobilization) AND (after eating sugar) glycogen and triglyceride synthesis.

That's enzymes for breakdown and synthesis of glycogen and triglyceride simultaneously.

What researchers are finding from these major centenarian studies is that there is hardly anything in common among these people. They have high cholesterol and low cholesterol, some exercise and some don‘t, some smoke, some don‘t. Some are nasty as can be, some nice and calm and some are ornery.
But, they all have relatively low sugar for their age, and they all have low triglycerides for their age. And, they all have relatively low insulin.

+ mind in current Western society (~that is~ under chronic stress) eating the standard (fructose rich) foods of fruit, fruit juice, sucrose added produce, hfcs ... ... ... we've enzymes for breakdown and synthesis of glycogen and triglyceride simultaneously in constant operation where
healthy cetenarians exhibit low sugar and low triglycerides.

-*-

The confluence of incomplete mind + broken (immoral) society + inappropriate diet.

So can you provide a list of foods which we really shouldn't consider fit for human consumption ?
(foods which we can't guarantee we won't abuse)
We shouldn't eat anything processed, because processed food appears to be made attractive by addition of vast amounts of simple carbs, starch and salt - all of which are addictive; all of which are collaborators (we're attracted to) with metabolic dysregulation through stress (mental) from life in 'immoral' world
- and which (particularly because of fructose) result in the body fielding ... ...

that's it - the futile cycle :mad: of trigs and glucose being mobilized and stored simultaneously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futile_cycle

So - our list of acceptable foods reliant on quality (whole foods unprocessed) rather than quantity (albeit many of the same components as found in whole foods - though in vastly increased amounts)
- in a mind working towards completion in a stress-free world.

SB_UK
11-04-11, 07:20 PM
The confluence of incomplete mind + broken (immoral) society + inappropriate diet.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v8Wden1LFs&feature=related

All solved in the autonomous monastic community ~aka~ global villageft.High priests of technology

Global logicality communicated ... ... 'chop wood, carry water'.

Summary
All 4 one & one 4 all
--- globally.

Unmanagable
11-04-11, 09:23 PM
I haven't had time to read everything yet, but I just want to say thank you for sharing all of this valuable information. During my quest to figure out what is going on with me, one of the things I discovered that I'd never thought of before was that I only weighed 5 lbs. at birth.

High protein intake makes a noticable difference in my functioning ability. I have drastically cut carbs, salt, and sugar. I notice when I choose to eat them in excess during the week of my hormonal insantiy each month, I feel pain where I used to experience inflammation from excess sodium and my energy is totally drained.

So anyway..........a huge thanks to you!! :D

SB_UK
11-05-11, 11:42 AM
I haven't had time to read everything yet, but I just want to say thank you for sharing all of this valuable information. During my quest to figure out what is going on with me, one of the things I discovered that I'd never thought of before was that I only weighed 5 lbs. at birth.

High protein intake makes a noticable difference in my functioning ability. I have drastically cut carbs, salt, and sugar. I notice when I choose to eat them in excess during the week of my hormonal insantiy each month, I feel pain where I used to experience inflammation from excess sodium and my energy is totally drained.

So anyway..........a huge thanks to you!! :D

ADD non-linear obsessive compulsive disorder :p - going over and over and over the same idea until the mind pings agreement; the ADD mind knows when the idea makes sense.

(It's our anxiety-driving :( gift :o !)

~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064518)~ The results suggest the involvement of CRF in the accomplishment of metamorphosis.http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDuzrxtiGnuk6UXTKD1lufIkoZebvI9 2LOylkrxZtopZtDtr40

Primitive reward mechanism

sweet (monosaccharide/disaccharide) -> blood sugar elevation (mono-/di-/poly-saccharide)

bread (polysaccharide) -> fish (protein)

Primitive reward mechanism -> Modern reward mechanism
Reduced attraction to sweet foods/foods which elevate blood sugar.
nO salt- uncheck
no sugar- uncheck
no starch- uncheck

We can still eat these foods (after completion of mind) - just are no longer attracted (addictively) towards them - no longer are enslaved by the dopaminergic hit from sweetness/blood monsoaccharide elevation.

Stress
Two basic levels - mental (illogicality) and physical (not enough food).
The stress mechanism evolved to help us struggle on in an environment of physical stress; mental stress, however, fed into the same mechanism (exaptative re-use since physical stress shouldn't apply in a world of mind (there's no excuse for physical stress in a world of completed mind)).

However - in the process of the physical stress mechanism no longer being required and mental stress dominating as the key stress-inducing function of the human mind (towards completion) -
- we've ended up driving a system which results in stress (glucose and fatty acid mobilization) driving us to eat too much food (FURTHER increases in circulating glucose and fatty acid levels to profile of processed food intake) alongside increased glucogen and triglyceride synthesis in the liver ... ...
three levels to the futile cycle (catabolic -> -> <- anabolic) - each contributing their part to disrupting physiological homeostasis -

- fundamental causative agent in this reaction = the species not having communicated a simple model of reality (which sufficient others have understood) to shape our lives.

Scarring - classically fibrosis - from anabolic and catabolic reactions occurring simultaneously (futile cycle) eg TNFa and TGFb effects on connective tissue degradation and deposition via promoting/repressing gene expression of ~eg~ collagenase via AP-1 (http://ajplung.physiology.org/content/300/3/L479.abstract) and TIE (http://www.springerlink.com/content/v507424683365781/)s (respectively).
- a model for liver scarring with hfcs - anabolic/catabolic futile cycle being driven relentlessly ??

- fundamental causative agent in this reaction = the species not having communicated a simple model of reality (which sufficient others have understood) to shape our lives.


Understand our susceptibility under incomplete mind to sweet foods/blood monosaccharide elevation
(historical image above).
Re-define profile of foods available for people.



Understand a model for reality which explains our development from day 1 to here ... ...
(evolution by abstraction layer involving male/female duality formation)
(the metaphor of the famous couple who appear alongside the historical image above).
Re-define education to offer the big picture, first.



Eliminate stress
(from the two measures above)
([a] Appropriate nutrition supplied, Proper development of mind ensured, [c] Only moral behaviours {supported,motivated,rewarded} by societal infrastructure (loss of anti-social reward systems - money)).

The ego - whilst it makes the journey to lose itself (wisdom)
- restricted to excellence in behaviours which won't result in community damage as the ego strives to knock itself out impressing his chosen prospective dual
- duality in the making.

-*-

Loss of mental control to the primitive reward system shed
- as the individual loses his/her attraction to sugar/blood sugar elevation.
Free will is the goal.

Free will through duality (pair bond formation).

The mind which pair bonds - if filled - will need to express humility.

Humility acquired by shifting away from one's molecular expertise (especially if particularly gifted in that area) - and trying something new
- perhaps even some other area of enquiry in which the individual is below average.

Previously - intellectuals were marked by their interest in many, many fields of enquiry.

Modern day intellectuals tend to be highly specialised.

High specialization can lead to the highly specialized mind believing that it's special (the God delusion); the mind which expresses the God delusion (stubborn ego) will be a mind which respects few others - is unlikely to be predisposed to give itself up in pair-bonding.
[B]
And so now you're suggesting ?
Suggestion that a global, connected education which imparts the big picture - which prevents people from specializing early and becoming islands of highly esoteric expertise -
- will lead to ego constructs which're pair-bonding (and hence wisdom) ready.

That - amount of knowledge acquired by the mind may be a very bad thing
- that the goal is understanding -
complete 'understanding' - a mind without much need to store data.

And so now you're suggesting ?
(with respect to what we should eat)
Wisdom from the pair-bonded mind; particular form of education required to keep the mind open to pair-bonding (the mind expressing the God delusion over some molecularly small aspect of reality isn't open to loss of self).
Goal of life - pair-bonding which confers rational insight into how we should organize society in order to help all others (immature minds making the journey) to escape the repression of first mind (original sin) and gain wisdom (free will).

TRY AGAIN!:mad: And so now you're suggesting ?
(with respect to what we should eat)
Start with learning (gaining) humility (our realization that our ability to understand reality does not mean that we should take the credit for the mechanism we uncover)
... ... and the model for social organization (eventually) follows upon successful pair-bonding
- a model for social organization which removes certain foods and which prevent the urges which are satisfied by reaching for the 'wrong' foods
- the foods which break our physical body.

And so which food products should be removed ?
Processed salty/sweet/blood sugar elevating and pain-killing (exorphin - casein,gluten).

Can these foods be re-introduced when the mind is complete ?
Why bother ? - the attraction (drive,motivation,addiction) for these foods is gone - the individual (after completion of mind) - no longer misses them.
Ask the teetotaller whether they're concerned about an end to the sale of alcohol and it's unlikely that they'll be particularly concerned.

So - a complete ban on these products ?
After the addiction is gone - it'd be nice if in the case of any of these (no longer addictively attractive) substances, which might be found in quality (haute cuisine) preparations
- might be retained.We can still eat these foods (after completion of mind) - just are no longer attracted (addictively) towards them - no longer are enslaved by the dopaminergic hit from sweetness/blood monsoaccharide elevation.hormonal insantiy each monthSo ... ... in the question of what should we eat -
the solution of a

-> particular form of education rolled out to the species - which facilitates humility
-> pair-bonding
-> wisdom
-> a change in social infrastructure
-> reduced stress to the lil' ones
-> particular form of education rolled out to the species - which facilitates humility

- primitive reward system vanquished as early as can be (pair-bond formation no earlier than our mid-30's (hormonal reaction)), without being allowed to wreak lasting damage to the maturing developmental mind (to obesity, diabetes, caries ~etc~) in the interim period.

But what of all the structured knowledge which is to be found within the global wise mind ?
To be applied - to introduce systems which are fun - sustainable and scalable systems which help to make people glad to be alive.
To human beings with mind - life (survival of the species) will be determined not by food availability but by fun availability
- survival of the species will therefore best be ensured by encouraging a social infrastructure which is compatible with maximizing the fun available (at a species level)

- where high quality interactive sound and image transfer (today's newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/04/technology-nintendo)) is likely to feature prominently.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/9/2/1314991259478/MW3_4.gif

To be able to use this mind of ours to drop us into alternate realities
- some of which (hopefully) not involving our heads being blown off at alarmingly short intervals :eek:.

qinkin
11-05-11, 02:08 PM
We can still eat these foods (after completion of mind) - just are no longer attracted (addictively) towards them - no longer are enslaved by the dopaminergic hit from sweetness/blood monsoaccharide elevation.Yes, that was my impression. No longer psychologically delusional concerning their true use.

Extreme sweetness surpasses cocaine reward, :) that is interesting. Is this a reason to eat fruit? Which is benignly alkaline forming (prevents acidosis) in the body and provides some potent vitamins when eaten in their whole form, and energy as well (?) Functions of the reward system for, not against survival of the species.

--- Unnatural fructose manipulation (HFCS), causes headache instead of motivation/reward (?). Some fruits aren't supposed to be that sweet, like cranberry. Apples are naturally quite sweet compared to cranberry, but not all varieties are. Nearly certain there is a difference between naturally sweet whole food, and artificially sweet products.

Kinda' seeing the correlation to stimulants w/o healthy food. Anxiety, disease forming, and headache.

(((())))
PloS.org (http://www.plos.org/)---nice choice, for that article (Public Library of Science). I recently have come to realize that this is among the only sites where all the scientific research published to it has unrestricted access to the public.

We are a nonprofit publisher and advocacy organization. Our mission is to accelerate progress in science and medicine by leading a transformation in research communication. Everything that we publish is open-access - freely available online for anyone to use. Sharing research encourages progress, from protecting the biodiversity of our planet to finding more effective treatments for diseases such as cancer.non-delusional mental habits :)

"Deep in the night,
far off the right,
missing my headache.
Visions of light,
sweeter delight,
kissing my loveache.
How come I must know,
where obsession needs to go?
How come I must know
where the passion hides its feelings?
How come I must know
where obsession needs to go?
How come I must know
the direction of relieving?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFCK6zIRVp4

SB_UK
11-06-11, 07:38 AM
... meaning that eat/drink man/woman is about all we need to take away from this idea - where mind must not be allowed (by preventing loss of self to another) - to get in the way.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa077wDxH_RKTExcFy8rR0XlauttXl6 jrlpfRuH335fFZKVuRg

eat/drink [lots] -> man/woman -> eat/drink [little]

2 stages to the life cycle of man with respect to mind -
- developmental (from first word uttered) and complete (no further words *required*).

What's the problem with discussions revolving around God ?
They become meaningful only when they're no longer required.

And politics ?
As described in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_%28Plato%29#The_dialectical_forms_of_ government), politics is fundamentally flawed.

So - no real point in discussions about religion, politics and for the same reason as politics - law and money.

What's worth discussing ?
The metamorphosis cycle compared and contrasted between the animal kingdom and man.

The cycle (in man) encodes nothing more than the path to completion of mind (wisdom).

Food intake (particularly blood sugar elevating products) support the remodelling process which is requried in brain (relating to mind) -
- a constant remodelling process which allows us to fast-switch our concept of reality with available data
- constant remodelling (driven on the physical abstraction layer - neurone) by the stress reaction) -
from (in effect) mind of selfishness to mind of social (wisdom) ... ... ...

So what're we supposed to eat ?
Enough to allow the life cycle to progress - where enough (paradoxically) relates more to simple information availability
- relates to ease of access to information which our mind (us) requires (to fill holes which it intuits in itself)
- towards completion.

The switch to a hyperglycaemic/opioid diet (which is killing people at an unprecedented rate) - as a kinda' foot on the acceleration pedal to species-wide enlightenment.

The most fundamental of questions - yes we appear to be able to hold it down, but what are we supposed to eat ? opens up a line of enquiry which extends into mind, completed mind, returns back to the body -
where we find our appetite regulatory mechanism has changed (fundamentally) by virtue of its always on nature (the primitive reward system) having been switched (upon completion of mind) -
- for something better.

This transition occurs with the individual switching from pleasure felt on ultra-highs in circulating blood glucose ... down.

A reducing threshold from ultra-high to barely raised in blood glucose levels equating to satiety (having our fill) -
- preventing (actually at the neural level) - any further intake than our body actually requires.

So - we're programmed to eat (even if eating - blood sugar elevation is bad for our physical body) until the primitive reward system is overcome; we're programmed to kill ourselves (by over-eating) if we're not careful.
If we over-eat (more the profile of foods) up until transition to wisdom, do not educate ourselves holistically and with appropriate humility and then do not pair-bond successfully ... ... ... then we'll pop (the primitive reward system is not your friend - and is an unsatiable desire to devour any & everything).

So what're we supposed to eat - which foods are we required to eliminate ?
Industrial, processed foods which lead to blood monosaccharide elevation and opioid-containing foods.

So - a loss of potatoes in their skin, brown rice and caseinful cheese - seems a bit harsh ?
Where's the threshold between foods containing (artificially) too much of blood sugar elevating components and opioids and foods which contain (naturally too much of blood sugar elevating components and opioids.

Maybe the answer's to be found in the level of stress which the individual is under?
So - you mean that naturally blood sugar elevating and opioid-filled foods in an environment of low stress - can be retained ?
- that it's the mental level stress (in the average Western society) which could tranpose a naturally blood sugar elevating and opioid-filled food from physiological into pathological ?
Do you believe that this new ! idea is true ?

Yes
When exactly did we switch roles ?

Dunno'
Are we done now ?

Nearly ... ... ...

Natural foods (even if containing blood sugar elevating components / opioids) in an intelligent low stress environment
- not an elimination of stress - because the construction of mind is stressful
- more an elimination of unmanageable stresses - needing to acquire an immoral construct (money) for the survival essentials of food + shelter + education.

- meaning - straighten out the mind in sufficient numbers to change societal infrastructure and the desire for and availability of comfort (industrial non-physiological hyper-blood sugar elevation) foods will both drop ... ... diabetes epidemic solved - and all through a little (and not a lottle) bit of knowledge which permits the human metamorphosis cycle to progress from beginning to end, at full speed ... ... mid-30's at the earliest meaning
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIxSVyTvBCuMS7QbAd_C0xNzQpMURUf iL92euCrMBClxb2flBauA

... ... give or take a ~couple ... ... and only if we let it.

We're not ~there~ until the cycle completes - and we're free from the cursed primitive reward system (cf. the evil one) 's reign from *within*.

SB_UK
11-06-11, 12:54 PM
How come I must know,
where obsession needs to go? http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ69LmQwtutELTBjABTISSyVt3tsLDGv 3LQgHqmyF-xBWvDgCF7AA
~s (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/10/diabetes-the-epidemic)~Diabetes is nearly four times as common as all types of cancer combined. How come I must know
the direction of relieving? "Diabetes," says Young flatly, "is becoming a crisis. The crisis. It's big, it's scary, it's growing and it's very, very expensive. It's clearly an epidemic, and it could bring the health service to its knees. Something really does need to happen."The solution is ~only~ logical ... ...

(global logical consistency at the individual and societal level
- removing the desire* for unmanageable stress and inappropriate foods alongside
removing unmanageable stress and inappropriate foods)

- removing the desire* for money alongside
removing money ... ...

Unmanageable stress, inappropriate foods and money disappear without 'desire' keeping them in place.

* to ensure it diminishes from first mind to complete elimination at wisdom; the self (ego) can't be formally lost until it's given away (pair-bond / duality completion)
- occurring no earlier than our mid-30's (hormonally mediated - related to the changes occurring upon menopause).

SB_UK
11-07-11, 08:06 AM
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N-S N-S
N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S
N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S N-S
... and so it continues ...

pair~bonding

~we~ make sense

What does it take to be a Secret Angel?
~s (http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/article/TMG8872623/Victorias-Secret-show-What-does-it-take-to-be-a-Victorias-Secret-Angel.html)~For nine days before the show Adriana Lima will drink only protein shakes - "no solids".

LynneC
11-08-11, 02:59 PM
Some thoughts about diet…

You have to get your calories from somewhere, and your only choices are carbohydrate, fat or protein. (the 3 macronutrients)
So, what should the percentage be for optimal health? Here’s an interactive map that shows macronutrient breakdown by country in 2010 ( and look at the kcal per capita for the UK!) Roll the mouse over the country to see the breakdown...
http://chartsbin.com/view/1160

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p< p>

<O:p< p>For my own situation, I target a rough breakdown of 30/40/30 (carbs, protein, fat)

<O:p< p O:p<>My carb consumption is well below the typical Western diet, as you can see. A benefit of eating less carbs and more fat and protein is that most people will lose weight simply because they eat less because they are not hungry. I’ve lost about 20 lbs over the past 2 years but I have not been on a diet, per se, and I was not ‘heavy’ to begin with. I now weigh about what I weighed in my early 20’s (I just turned 50 this year) Once I reduced my carb intake, I found that I lost the urge to be constantly munching on ‘snacks’. My reasons for changing my diet are related to heart health as opposed to weight loss.

<O:p< p O:p<>For you, it gets a little trickier if you are not eating animal protein or fat. Here are some suggestions to get your fat and protein content up and your carbs down. I’m assuming that the main motivator in your dietary change is related to inflammation issues.

<O:p< p O:p<>Bad fats: anything industrially produced/processed, which includes all seed oils that you can buy in the grocery store. (high omega 6 oils=inflammation) Eliminate or reduce significantly…

<O:p< p O:p<>Good fats: saturated fat (you are limited here, if you won’t consume animal products). Coconut oil is good, and butter also, if you can forget that it comes from a cow…:p
Monounsaturated fats, like olive oil, are good, but you have to be careful when cooking with them to keep the temp low. Olive oil is great when consumed uncooked, as a dressing, etc.

<O:p< p O:p<>Seeds are good sources of fat (tree seeds, especially), but many are high in omega 6 oils, so I eat them in moderation. I eat natural peanut butter also, in moderation.

<O:p< p O:p<>Avocados, if you can get them, are wonderful…

<O:p< p O:p<>Eggs? I’m not sure where you are drawing the line re animal protein/fat…

<O:p< p O:p<>
<O:p< p O:p<>Have you eliminated wheat from your diet? Are you working on improving your gut health by eating foods that are rich in probiotics, and/or by supplementing with a good quality probiotic?

<O:p< p O:p<>Another good blog is Dr Art Ayers’ blog, called Cooling Inflammation. (google it) Look under ‘labels’ on the right column and you will find many posts on gut health and autoimmune issues.

<O:p< p O:p<>Do you supplement with vitamin ‘D’? I’m not a big supplement taker, but ‘d’ is one that I take daily (d-3, cholcalciferol). It’s a fat-soluble vitamin (actually a hormone precursor) and should be taken with a fat source. You can google ‘vitamin ‘d’ council’ to see the latest research on vit ‘d’. Whole Health Source has a good post on vit ‘d’ also…

<O:p< p O:p<>
<O:p< p O:p<>Anyway, I hope you don’t mind me posting on your diary thread, and please keep posting your dietary musings… :)<O:p< p O:p<></O:p<>
</O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<>

~boots~
11-12-11, 05:58 AM
LOL Sausages...I just found this post ;-)
I will endeavour to take your sound advice!!

Bad bad carbs...

Insulin is the great God of fat (but not for much longer); it deposits it, spares its use and is the source of much unhappiness to pink ladies.

Of all the confusing things for the body to do - to lay down fat but not upon eating fat -

- upon eating fat's evil relative - Carbo'hydrate.


http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CC&Date=20100203&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=2030330&Ref=AR&maxH=230&maxW=370&border=0&Q=80&cb=20100203004500

That's him up there.

Carbo'hydrate is sneaky and nestles out of sight behind Fat's voluminous presence
- poking fun.

Fat needs to be given a heavy handled metal wok and urged to turn around and violently and repeatedly slap Carbo'hydrate soundly about the head -
- and to repeat this basic procedure for a couple of months, in which time, Fat's frown will turn to a smile to beaming through her multiple size reduced completely new and perfectly fitting pink and fluffy haute couture.

Fat Name change imminent

... ... and all of this could be yours - just remember to slap Carb'o'dude over the head ... ... ... actually whenever it takes your fancy.

He must pay for what he has done to you, pink ladies of the world around but not for much longer.

http://www.livsstil.co.uk/images/uploads/hancock%20london%20wok.jpg

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CC&Date=20100203&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=2030330&Ref=AR&maxH=230&maxW=370&border=0&Q=80&cb=20100203004500

~boots~
11-12-11, 06:00 AM
ps..back on topic..
If I eat 20-30 grams carbs per day...and eat as much fat as I possibly can,
I lose weight ... My body can't absorb fat without carbs...it's brill..
Shame I love beer and bread ;-))

SB_UK
11-12-11, 04:17 PM
<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:pinflammation issues.</o</o</o</o

I'm a walking inflammatory reaction.

Food (most) trigger reactions - but I think we need to go a step back.

There's this nagging feeling that nature wouldn't have made it this hard for us to locate food.

[1] Fructose is sweet.
[2] HFCS leads to visceral fat being laid down.
[3] Visceral fat forces TNFa into our system.
[4] TNFa and Inflammation lie in the background of so really many! Western diseases
[5] Inflammation, stress-response and re-modelling have many shared ... ...

Ahhh!!!

How about metamorphosis and 'programmed cell death' (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=programmed+cell+death+metamorphosis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a) ... ...
TNFa, programmed cell death, metamorphosis, apoptosis.

So ... ... the human life-cycle

The Fall of wo/man - apple (fructose) (sweet) = material desire
[1] Caterpillar - Sugar-rush (primitive reward system) -> well-fed
Drive to eat.
Ego (little self in place) - location of pair-bonding partner.

[2] Pupa - Visceral fat -> Peripheral Insulin resistance (time to transform).

The resurrection of wo/man - happiness without material desire
[3] Butterfly - Reduced attraction to sugar (blood glucose highs no longer appeal) (modern reward system) -> eating no longer important
Freed from drive to eat.
Pair-bonded with partner - duality formation (from duals)

-*-

The inflammation (I think) is a necessary part of the transition of mind from first to complete; the metamorphosis (change in structure of mind to a type which cannot accept war - competition between people which generates sore losers) - represents the transition (disorganization/reorganization) which occurs (rises to a maximum) between developing and completed mind (in the human pupal stage).

The reorganization generates a fully connected logical structure which gives the owner of any such mind - the natural attribute of 'enforced moral consistency'
- because that structure which has re-organized is what we consider to be 'us'.

We (what we consider to be 'us' when we use the word 'I') represents that developing logical structure before the transition and the developed (fully connected) logical structure afterwards.

The transition represents the transition to wisdom.

The inflammation is simply a necessary part of metamorphosis.

~boots~
11-13-11, 05:38 AM
Sausages..how many carbs are in wine?? ;-)

~boots~
11-13-11, 05:50 AM
~S~...I was just reading back, and I so wonder what Maori-Boy would say ;-) And Matt..Geez..I miss those days !!! We'd probably interrupt with ridiculous stories of pies ;-))

SB_UK
11-13-11, 06:14 AM
~s (http://www.skepdic.com/cognitivedissonance.html)~ If a person is made psychologically uncomfortable by contradictory cognitions, shouldn't there be some way to measure this discomfort, such as a rise in the level of cortisol or other stress hormones? Has anyone defending cognitive dissonance ever measured stress hormones being aroused by dissonant beliefs or relieved by rationalization? Continuing the general idea above - we're (since speciation of mind) under a constant state of stress (inflammation/re-modelling) until cognitive dissonance is overcome.

In this world of incredible information (thanks to the Internet) availability - a good amount of which is relatively easy (an absolute pre-requisite) for the non-expert to understand (the information needs to be absorbed into the mind in such a way that the individual can use the information)
- our/their mind becomes filled with understanding which can (potentially) clash.

To man (with mind) - making sense is of particular importance; when ideas do not make sense, the feeling is of destabilization in our sense of reality.

Aspiration - to a model of mind which makes sense of reality and which then (the mind) dissipates.
I know that I know nothing.

Overcoming the stressful clashes (cognitive dissonance) should result in overcoming the stress reaction/inflammation/re-modelling processes (neural/mental) which we're enforcedly subjected to under the headline of 'completion of mind'.

From the speciation event of man (Homo sapiens sapiens) - there has only been one task on the agenda - the completion of a mind (collective) which harbours the simplest, wholly interconnected scientific model as its (our) perspective.

From disconnected to connected mind.
From Molecular to Systems perspective.

The physical discomfort will not be great in minds which barely venture 'out' or in minds which restrict themselves to a very small (molecular) section of reality.

Perhaps a good question to stimulate formation of one's own mind might be
- why do people hurt other people (wars -etc-), instead of explaining their perspective with both sides shortly therafter reaching an understanding ?
Surely people realise that all that fighting accomplishes is polarization of opinion ?
Perhaps if warring parties were able to train the light of analytical thought on their own perspective - they'd see that both partes were either fighting for a highly subjective opinion (religious wars) or for the maintenance of inequality (wars in oil-rich lands) ... ... ...

Surely we should and do feel stress (even if we don't consciously register the stress) when we see armies (around us as we speak) fighting for opinion (which is certainly not worth fighting for) and for the maintenance of repression (which we're in fact programmed to fight against).

- Cognitive dissonance and stress -
Wars in the name of opinion and repression ?
Popular (music, models, actors -etc-) culture which rewards plastic, manufactured performers ?
Healthcare only to the rich ?
People striving to be more rich and powerful than others - when these 'aspects' are obviously immoral ?
Killing/Attacking/Hating for love (the name of religion) ?
Hundreds of millions dying from eating too much as hundreds of millions die from starvation ?
Animal abuse by people and in the laboratory (in the name of alleviation of suffering) ?
Ownership and squirreling away rather than sharing ?
Pride in owner$hip rather than physical, mental and spiritual health ?
Political leaders from many countries (as the norm) becoming dictators ?
Divergence between proper justice and the terrible human legal systems we're forced to endure (which enforce materialism) ?
Widespread admiration of professionals who propel a ball (which prevents amateur participation) ?
One Union fighting for more money for its members without considering whether others might be more deserving ?
Teachers caring little for education ?

It's possible to draw up a list of hundreds of problems without breaking a sweat - each of which (let alone just the few (above) taken together) should be enough to push the average collection of connected logical models (the average mind) into madness; about the only solution to madness (I believe) is to understand why people are able to accept and take part in such illogical (immoral) schemes.

The pattern from the randomly selected list above appears to be of the battle (which occurs within each of our heads/minds (between
evil
and
good))

between
the primitive reward system (the exclusively selfish drive for money, power, fame)
and
the modern reward system (happy current and future generation survival of the species)

Is it possible to be human and not be stressed (even if we are able to suppress the conscious awareness (but obviously not the effects)) by entertaining those types of thoughts ?
Surely not.

We are enforcedly (and more so as we develop a holistic mind) 'broken' by illogical (immoral) behaviour on an individual/social level; from this form of stress to immune cell dysfunction (TNFa,IL-6,cortisol disruption)
~s (http://ezinearticles.com/?Stress-and-Inflammation&id=4318548)~ Increased cortisol also contributes to swelling by increasing levels of interleukin-6 (IL-6), which causes inflammatory reactions and also decreases the part of the immune system responsible for protection from viral and bacterial infections. More than time, increased levels of cortisol and IL-6 cause a decrease in a really important hormone called DHEA.DHEA, thought of as the immune and antiaging hormone, controls age-related disorders, helps repair and maintain tissues, reduces atherosclerosis, raises insulin sensitivity, controls allergic reactions, and balances the activity of the immune program.and from this form of stress (the other side of the coin) - brain and mind remodelling to work out the source of cognitive dissonance

- resulting in our own (the individual's own) mind making the transition to wisdom

A transition which places the knowledge contained within the mind secondary to the structure of mind (freed from material attachment) which is attained.

-*-

So ... ... the stress/inflammation/remodelling is simply a part of progress towards completion of mind ???

But at this level of discomfort ?
Being a walking inflammatory reaction is no fun at all.

Seems unlikely - but then again ... ...
Back around to the idea of food type exacerbating our problems.

Identifying foods which don't trigger pain is proving to be rather the challenge.

Non-starchy fresh vegetables (minimally prepared) alone ?

Even vegetables (albeit including tomatoes) in a soup appeared to drive pain.

Occasional problems with the two foodstuffs which haven't been that problematic until now - with fish and non-starchy vegetables ... ... ....

SB_UK
11-13-11, 06:27 AM
Sausages..how many carbs are in wine?? ;-)

I tried some recently (really not much) and it had the an immediate unpleasant effect - felt 'slowed' but not in the relaxed sense
- more unpleasantly anaesthetized.
It felt as though it drove the need to eat sweet foods.

Narcotic (alcohol) demanding Stimulant (sugar) for balance ?

I've more or less waved goodbye to anything with alcohol in it.

SB_UK
11-13-11, 06:40 AM
~S~...I was just reading back, and I so wonder what Maori-Boy would say ;-) And Matt..Geez..I miss those days !!! We'd probably interrupt with ridiculous stories of pies ;-))

Ahhh! pies and the narcissist Matt's :-) I-spies.

SB_UK
11-13-11, 07:13 AM
ADD/ADHD then as the escape route from mind.

At fall of man - we lost the capacity to be rewarded sufficiently from simple existence
- required ascent of the Tree of Knowledge so that the stress of fielding an incomplete (logically inconsistent model of reality) would leave us alone.

The difficult aspect to this idea is in explanation of the line between the mind which is full of knowledge and the mind which is wise.

The mind which is wise need not (probably will not) contain as much information as the minds which're filled with knowledge

- it's just that the pursuit of knowledge has a point to its search - and that point wasn't anything (really) to do with the knowledge per se
- the point of accumulating knowledge within the individual and group mind (and intentionally exaggerating) was to make the mind 'go away'.

Make the nasty mind go away.

Just a task we were required to undertake in order to permit our return 'back to the garden' (Stabile).

Suggesting that the mind's of no use ?

No - suggesting that it can only be put to use when built ('calibrated' (Stabile)).

Up until completion of mind, application of ideas (since not globally consistent) results in errors being introduced into global society.

SB_UK
11-13-11, 07:29 AM
So what are we supposed to eat ?
Is state of mind dependent.

The inflammation appears to get worse before it gets better.

The epiphany (transition to wisdom) (resurrection, enlightenment, awakening)
- the pupal stage where we (we = immature logical structure since we = the perspective through that logical structure) die and go to heaven (the rise after the fall of man) -
involves rather the frenetic inflammation/stress/remodelling of complete disorganization / re-organization of logical structure in mind.

SB_UK
11-13-11, 03:02 PM
Coconut
Avocados<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p
Great post ... ... a couple of weeks ago I bought some coconuts and avocados - 3 of the 4 avocados and 1 of the 2 coconuts were rotten on the inside - the avocados were brown with a white growth - and the coconut was an unnatural white (as opposed to a natural white) colour on the inside ... ...

- as a thoroughly lazy individual who believes that food shouldn't be as difficult (as I, for sure am making it) ... ... ...

~well~ - you see what I mean; too much effort required to perform a task which I don't find of any interest - would happily elect for the satiety pill which we're (doubtless) on the verge of finding ... ...

That week, had to throw a bottle of olives away also (just mentioning them because those three (high fat low carb) foods were ever so close to becoming my diet) - the olives were so incredibly salty that despite having washed them several times over - they were inedible.

There has to be an easier way of locating nutrition which doesn't set us on fire.</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o

SB_UK
11-13-11, 03:17 PM
Do you supplement with vitamin ‘D’? I’m not a big supplement taker, but ‘d’ is one that I take daily (d-3, cholcalciferol). It’s a fat-soluble vitamin (actually a hormone precursor) and should be taken with a fat source. You can google ‘vitamin ‘d’ council’ to see the latest research on vit ‘d’. Whole Health Source has a good post on vit ‘d’ also...<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p
Recently read something along the lines that we're (Western science) massively 'out' and have underestimated quite considerably our Vitamin D need.
That the quantities in supplements aren't sufficient.

And also that the Vitamin D yield which we generate for ourselves out in the sun. more than covers it.

Remember wondering to myself, quite recently, how the relatively recent and rapid migration of dark-skinned individuals from year round sun to the far Northern hemisphere (where the sun is only to be found in TV :rolleyes:) will treat 'em.

Dark skinned barriers to U.V. in an environment of low U.V. in a modern world of work of even lower U.V. which insists upon us remaining inside (and working! towards (pointless) publications) for the whole of the day.
~s (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/in-search-of-the-lean-gene-2241798.html?origin=internalSearch)~How, then, can the obesity explosion in the past 50 years be explained? It is too short a period to be accounted for by genetic selection, which takes place over thousands, or millions, of years. White skin was selected in northern populations, for example, as they moved away from the Equator. With less sunlight it was advantageous to make extra vitamin D from what sun was available, and thus pale skin became the norm.As LynnC writes - Vitamin D must be of some importance to drive selection for lighter skin with distance from the equator.

A selection which is flouted by modern migration patterns.</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o

LynneC
11-13-11, 03:39 PM
SB, I urge you to read Dr Ayers' blog, Cooling Inflammation. Scroll down for the labels...
http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/ Gut health (proper flora in the gut) is the first step to reducing inflammation, of any type, IMO...

You are not covering all your nutritional needs with a purely vegetarian diet. You need fats for a variety of reasons, and if you can't tolerate animal fats, buy some coconut oil (virgin, if possible); try a Caribbean or Indian market if you have one near you. Coconut oil also has anti inflammatory properties, at least anecdotally...

~boots~
11-13-11, 05:33 PM
Did you take them back???
<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p<o:p
Great post ... ... a couple of weeks ago I bought some coconuts and avocados - 3 of the 4 avocados and 1 of the 2 coconuts were rotten on the inside - the avocados were brown with a white growth - and the coconut was an unnatural white (as opposed to a natural white) colour on the inside ... ...

- as a thoroughly lazy individual who believes that food shouldn't be as difficult (as I, for sure am making it) ... ... ...

~well~ - you see what I mean; too much effort required to perform a task which I don't find of any interest - would happily elect for the satiety pill which we're (doubtless) on the verge of finding ... ...

That week, had to throw a bottle of olives away also (just mentioning them because those three (high fat low carb) foods were ever so close to becoming my diet) - the olives were so incredibly salty that despite having washed them several times over - they were inedible.

There has to be an easier way of locating nutrition which doesn't set us on fire.</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o</o

SB_UK
11-14-11, 04:28 AM
Did you take them back???

They were a bit too mushy to retain for a week :-).

namazu
11-14-11, 04:34 AM
our return 'back to the garden' (Stabile).

Now I'm going to have this in my head all night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sH0uR2u7Hs

:cool:

SB_UK
11-14-11, 05:11 AM
SB, I urge you to read Dr Ayers' blog, Cooling Inflammation. Scroll down for the labels...
http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/ Gut health (proper flora in the gut) is the first step to reducing inflammation, of any type, IMO...

You are not covering all your nutritional needs with a purely vegetarian diet. You need fats for a variety of reasons, and if you can't tolerate animal fats, buy some coconut oil (virgin, if possible); try a Caribbean or Indian market if you have one near you. Coconut oil also has anti inflammatory properties, at least anecdotally...

Good site.

Here's the diet he recommends (http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/search/label/anti-inflammatory%20diet).

So - yes to (I happen to follow) pretty much everything he says with the following provisos ... ... ...

1] Try to eliminate meat (not fish, at least not yet)
2] Yes to prebiotics more so than probiotics (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/healthy/prebiotics.shtml) (a cost thing)
3] Saturated fat from ghee (just easier)
4] *Cooked* (rather than raw) non-starchy vegetables (this may be a problem)
5] No dietary supplements (cost)
6] Coffee minimized - find its acidity or glucose mobilizing effects are too strong if over consumed (> 1/2 cup)

So - down to whey protein isolate/ghee/olive oil/oily and other fish/eggs/almonds/90% chocolate/non-starchy vegetables prepared in Indian anti-inflammatory spices.

... ... but (sadly) all of the above is not enough.

SB_UK
11-14-11, 05:23 AM
Now I'm going to have this in my head all night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sH0uR2u7Hs

:cool:

Love that song.

Kinda' hoping that the hippies 'll re-emerge from out of their :-) retirement to help finish what they started.

The orc$ have us pinned down.

SB_UK
11-14-11, 10:15 AM
Kinda' hoping that the hippies 'll re-emerge from out of their :-) retirement to help finish what they started.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuPYXb2WOIgc5juk0zxl_aN0oFLPZkl 4SvIemEPAL4yeU5NoE5http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4TefTrTdPOnAsXHvh_-ZShD3tUJPky9dj8FymQBRFmyYhCevdyQ

The madness of consumerism


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aOGnVKWbwc

LynneC
11-14-11, 10:44 AM
SB, 2 great sources of probiotics (cheap) are:
Fermented foods; cabbage (sauerkraut) is a good one and easy to do on your own. You just need cabbage, salt , water and a glass jar, pretty much. Here's the method:
http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html

Another is homemade Kefir. You do need the kefir grains to start out with, but you may be able to find them for free on the internet. Making Kefir is much easier than making yoghurt, because it ferments at room temperature...(no heating at all)
Also, you do not need to culture in milk... (you can use soy or almond milk, etc)
http://www.traditional-foods.com/kefir-grains/

SB_UK
11-14-11, 01:10 PM
SB, 2 great sources of probiotics (cheap) are:
Fermented foods; cabbage (sauerkraut) is a good one and easy to do on your own. You just need cabbage, salt , water and a glass jar, pretty much. Here's the method:
http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_06/sauerkraut.html

Another is homemade Kefir. You do need the kefir grains to start out with, but you may be able to find them for free on the internet. Making Kefir is much easier than making yoghurt, because it ferments at room temperature...(no heating at all)
Also, you do not need to culture in milk... (you can use soy or almond milk, etc)
http://www.traditional-foods.com/kefir-grains/

Oooops! Forgot to mention kimchi :-) we buy it by the tonne.:)

So (checks the shopping list!) - down to tofu/kimchi/whey protein isolate/ghee/olive oil/herbs(basil,oregano,parsley)/olives/oily and other fish/eggs/almonds/90% chocolate/non-starchy vegetables prepared in Indian anti-inflammatory spices (turmeric,dried chilli,ginger,garlic).

qinkin
11-14-11, 02:52 PM
whey protein isolateNot trying to be nit-pickin'in , but I heard "isolate" should be avoided if possible.

Thinking something along these lines (http://www.paleotrition.com/Grassfed_Sugar_Free_Chocolate_Whey_Protein_p/wcc900.htm). Perhaps not so expensive though. (just ignore the fake "sale" price) . I'm not a connoisseur of this stuff, but recently heard there's a significant difference, at least when "whey" becomes a regular part of one's diet.

- Contain no sugar, gluten or artificial ingredients
- Come from 100% GRASS-FED cows (click here to learn more about why this matters)
- Our processed using a proprietary LOW TEMPERATURE pasteurization process to keep the goodness of raw milk
- Taste great

Our Whey Protein Shake uses the proprietary non-denatured grassfed whey protein concentrate used in our Meal Replacement Shakes and is produced to maintain the full range of the fragile immune boosting and regenerative components naturally present in fresh raw milk. Our Whey Protein Shake contains no sugar or artificial sweeteners. Our Whey Protein Shake is produced using proprietary filtration and drying which involves minimal processing. This unique production method ensures that the whey is not subjected to temperatures that would destroy the original components. We do not use cross-flow filtration, microfiltration, ultrafiltration, hydrolyzation or ion exchange methods which denature the original proteins.As for probiotics, I get this yogurt (http://www.cascadefresh.com/)b/c it contains live cultures (I think about 8 different strains) and is pretty much a natural food . Pretty sure those strains are alive b/c I can culture my own yogurt from a sample of this stuff.

SB_UK
11-14-11, 03:26 PM
Not trying to be nit-pickin'in , but I heard "isolate" should be avoided if possible.

Thinking something along these lines (http://www.paleotrition.com/Grassfed_Sugar_Free_Chocolate_Whey_Protein_p/wcc900.htm). Perhaps not so expensive though. (just ignore the fake "sale" price) . I'm not a connoisseur of this stuff, but recently heard there's a significant difference, at least when "whey" becomes a regular part of one's diet.
As for probiotics, I get this yogurt (http://www.cascadefresh.com/)b/c it contains live cultures (I think about 8 different strains) and is pretty much a natural food . Pretty sure those strains are alive b/c I can culture my own yogurt from a sample of this stuff.

Darn! I heard that "concentrate" should be avoided because of the higher levels of casein within.

The isolate that I use doesn't have the same awful effects that I experience with milk - kinda' pushing me towards the casein is 'bad' camp ... ... ...


... ... don't know ... ...

This wasn't the source (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/whey-isolate-concentrate-hydrolysate/) - but it'll do... ... mildly sensitive to dairy, then isolate is your best choice.

SB_UK
11-14-11, 03:34 PM
As for probiotics, I get this yogurt (http://www.cascadefresh.com/)b/c it contains live cultures (I think about 8 different strains) and is pretty much a natural food . Pretty sure those strains are alive b/c I can culture my own yogurt from a sample of this stuff.

Worried about casein.

Have been meaning to try and work out caseomorphin and gluten exorphin
- to work out how the opiates might affect us
- particularly after LynnC's po~s (http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/)~t earlier today.
Naltrexone can be used to block opioids and provide the basis for treatment for drug abuse, but in low doses (LDN) it provides a paradoxical increase in natural endorphins that reverses inflammation and provides an effective treatment for autoimmune diseases, e.g. MS.If opioid blocking can help with inflammation ... ... then, I guess, gluten exorphin and caseomorphin might ... ...

Aha!

Remodelling - Development - Growth and the Opiate connection; milk for the little baby animal to grow/remodel/develop/inflame:mad: and gluten for the baby shoot to grow/remodel/develop/inflame:mad:.

Time to think ... ... ... :eek:

The opiates have to go.

post~edit

Not sure about this idea yet - the 'paradoxical increase' part of the quotation.
Confused because the exogenous opiates appear to lead to inflammation, whereas the endogenous opiates appear to reduce inflammation.

I develop airways inflammation on drinking milk eg (http://www.naturalnews.com/002684.html).

:-) 'milk the deadly poison' to add to 'wheat belly'

What on earth are we doing to ourselves ??

SB_UK
11-14-11, 05:41 PM
... ... coming together ... ...


stimulant - dopamine - speed - go - male archetype
sweet - blood sugar elevation - carbohydrate

seeks balance with

narcotic - opioid - slow - stop - female archetype
~s (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8840904)~However, fat and protein intakes [not carb] were significantly less following naltrexone.At balance - the story shifts to - reduced food intake for carbs/fat/protein.

Not so much what we eat, more the quantity comes into focus.

Our mind/brain becomes re-trained on eating next to nothing ?

SB_UK
11-14-11, 05:59 PM
So

carb -> dopaminergic activation
fat/protein -> opioid activation

Two components to primitive reward system.

As sensitivity to sugar is sensed, since balance is sought - sensitivity to fat/protein must occur.

Increased sensitivity - reduced intake.

Primitive reward system dissolving with mind and pair bond completion in formation.

Connection to pair-bond thread in private section - debates.

pair-bonded voles - 'love is the drug'

~s (http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v9/n1/full/nn0106-7.html)~The prairie vole Microtus ochrogaster forms such enduring bonds after a single initial mating encounter, but why are these prairie-dwelling critters 'addicted to love' ... ...Nearly!

Pair bond formation results in a loss of the primitive reward system for the modern reward system; the effects through the eyes of the pair-bonders in process of bonding is a dramatically reduced attraction and need for food (carbs, protein and fat).
The inflammation is a measure of the remodelling occurring during pair bond formation completion.

The entire process of duals forming into duality involves inflammatory processes (remodelling events) occurring within the bodies of duals.

SB_UK
11-14-11, 06:13 PM
I want to be with you
Where being with you is the same
the same, the same, the same
the same as being ... ... youhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYWlIRxVrX4

~ADD~
A love story

SB_UK
11-15-11, 03:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPBZjXroEzk
'The devil will find work for idle hands to do'Imbalance (construction)
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeFw4wTRKFhFEcmzwWUJqkSv6bPXm9_ h1C9PiCwg2tW2hNAxYf

anabolism -> remodelling <- catabolism
Driving futile cycles.

Energy requiring.

Balance

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTetIq6sO8oDY8xvif3uwMQ0QSs_N2J--RUDZI81LRFN5H86DqOKA

Requiring less energy.

-*-

Suggestion
At balance (completion of mind and duality formation) energetic requirement decreases dramatically
- because the remodelling (the need to keep futile cycles open for operation) faculty may be shut down ??

Point of this suggestion
To explain away why we might find ourself (at wisdom,duality) with greatly reduced energetic requirement - most notably in futile cycles which underlie remodelling (inflammation)
inflammation
- which (in turn) underlies ever so many (all ?) of the disorders of Western living.

Mind/Pair-bonding deactivates Inflammatory propensity ?
Construction and the construction worker leave the building site when the house is complete.

Summarising
- that with mind and pair-bond completion that we naturally shift in our profile of and quantities required of protein/carbs/fat
- well known (eg ref in #178) that neurochemical circuitry (dopaminergic/opioid systems) determine food preference and that it looks as though these core addictive circuits are involved with completion of mind/duality formation

- that a reduced food intake (vastly) is a major part of this switch (exactly as seen in the caterpillar to butterfly transiton)
- that the profile of foods which we can eat (when massively reduced) isn't of importance in considering -
- more importance in dampening the addictive circuits down, from which 'new mind' - food intake resolves itself naturally

- that the transition (to wisdom/the pair-bonded state) deactivates the remodelling catabolic/anabolic process (required for development) (since no further development is required on completion of mind (on its lower (abstraction layer) neural level))

- that deactivation of the remodelling catabolic/anabolic process results in a deactivation of inflammation (for that's where the excess inflammatory property gains its muse)
- resulting in the removal of the single most important aspect

(propensity to inflammation)

which underlies the diseases of Western living.

Suggesting, that the diseases of Western living result from the convergence of excess food intake in the presence of information; the rational pair-bonded mind naturally (through a shift in the individual's food preference list and quantity required) experiences complete extinguishment in the inflammatory reaction.

-*-

The important point, then, that there's an actual mechanism to energetic requirement reduction on construction of mind/pair-bonding
- which
(through modification of the core addictivity circuits and their effects on food intake)
result in us eating less of a less damaging type of food
- occurring in parallel with
(since the body is no longer a construction site (site of inflammatory rearrangement))
- results in
healthy aging.

SB_UK
11-15-11, 03:24 PM
So ... ... human beings from first mind http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaUOZL5YUikY7jQ5FXN7_GCfv0SoU6e R_biOqxRwTR64gW7IvT to wisdom/pair-bonding http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M2CHtQkHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg re-model (are inflamed), the re-modelling (gestation in mind, similar to gestation of body) completes when the pair bond is in place (no earlier than our mid-30's (Stabile)).

Pure existence in the pair-bonded state is more than sufficiently rewarding (the modern reward system); the primitive reward system is lost in the process.

We can monitor our progress along this path by examining our relationship to sweet :-) (temptation); the blood sugar highs become progressively more unpleasant as we make progress along - resulting in a natural (gradual) decrease in desire/actual intake.

Thereafter we're concurrently freed from food intake preference and amount, achieve free will, achieve freedom of spirit ... ... ...

or more generally -

are free.

~*~

Pure existence in the pair-bonded state is more than sufficiently rewarding (the modern reward system).

The promised land
accessed from *within*.

The meaning of life
42

:-) (realised @ ~42 yrs of age)

An experiential perspective; impossible to convey - if necessay to convey, then the meaning of life as no longer caring/needing to know the meaning of life, whilst simultaneously knowing (at a sufficiently meaningful level to mind) the meaning
- feeling as though we belong - the individual framed in interconnected context of phenomenological reality suspended within the greater space/time matrix (God) beyond.

SB_UK
11-15-11, 04:03 PM
So - love'd be the interconnection

man - woman -> love definition 1 (modern mating strategy)
man -|----------> love definition 2 cf. Jesus (neighbour)
man - woman
man -|
man -^
man -|
man God-------> love definition 3 (God)

A species level structure built from love (God).

Jumping (the transition) to the realization that we're built up from a fundamental unknowable matrix ... ...

Unknowable interconnected strings (string theory) like invisible puppet strings upon which all of structured phenomenological reality (air molecules, Earth chemicals, enzymes ~etc~) are anchored.

Phenomenological reality forms from
male (fundamental) - female (higher) dualities
forming

- the assembly of structure from two God constructs (duals) into one (duality)

- 'when two galaxies collide'

- a shared phenomenological basis to evolution
- a blossoming crystallizing ('collapsing') reality.

SB_UK
11-15-11, 05:50 PM
Exercise (moving meditation - aerobic) -> endorphin -> opiate -> narcotic -> slow, slower, slowing -> delta EEG (0-4 Hz)

0 Hz - we transcend the mind.

delta EEG -> bliss, the empathic bridge out (http://controlmind.info/brainwave/delta-brainwave)

Because the brain is functioning at the slowest possible brainwave pattern, the central nervous system uses up virtually zero energy.screensaver butterflies.

LynneC
11-16-11, 11:28 AM
So (checks the shopping list!) - down to tofu/kimchi/whey protein isolate/ghee/olive oil/herbs(basil,oregano,parsley)/olives/oily and other fish/eggs/almonds/90% chocolate/non-starchy vegetables prepared in Indian anti-inflammatory spices (turmeric,dried chilli,ginger,garlic).

Looks good. Better than my diet looks, I'd have to say...

Tree nuts and small amounts of dark berry fruits would add some antioxidants/anti inflammatories, I think...

SB_UK
11-16-11, 03:03 PM
Looks good. Better than my diet looks, I'd have to say...

Tree nuts and small amounts of dark berry fruits would add some antioxidants/anti inflammatories, I think...

:-)

#1 (8 years old) favourite foods are dark berries and hazelnuts (particularly hazelnut oil).
Tried it a few months ago (the oil) - it's rather the treat.

Just found this - they're streaming her new album in its entirety (not yet available for sale):
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/13/142133269/first-listen-kate-bush-50-words-for-snow?ps=cprs

'snowflake' song 1 is wonderful.

Music increases the production of endorphins in the brain. A certain type of music :-) at least.By judiciously choosing the types (and pieces) of music we most enjoy, we can enhance endorphin production in our everyday lives.

SB_UK
11-16-11, 03:40 PM
With the shift from primitive reward system to modern reward system

- with the opening of the doors of perception

- neural stimulation (informational quality) feels as though it drives endogenous opiate production.

Sensory streams (informational quality) (music, vision (particularly pretty game graphics), touch (massage), taste, neuromuscular activation in aerobic exercise, seated meditation) captivate.

And the wonderful part is that that irritating (linear) mind vanishes off when the streams are flowing.

Upon opening the Doors to Perception
- our sensory/perceptual streams floating our boat whilst our (linear) mind floats away.

The thinking mind is an irritation - and it chatters away as long as its structure is logically inconsistent.It feels as though as the mind reaches internal consistency - that it realises 'its' work is done - and the 'commentary' diminishes
- no longer needed when the individual reaches a state of mind which at least in broad outline
makes
sense.

Fielding a logical model which makes sense of reality, is all that that voice needs to allow it to depart and allow us (without its unrelenting pestering) to immerse ourselves (that place we left (forced departure from the garden) at first mind)
in
the
moment.

wikiP/The Doors of Perception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors_of_Perception)By 12:30 pm, a vase of flowers becomes the "miracle, moment by moment, of naked existence". The experience, he asserts, is neither agreeable nor disagreeable, but simply "is". He likens it to Meister Eckhart’s ‘istigheit’ or ‘is-ness’, and Plato’s ‘Being’ but not separated from ‘Becoming’. He feels he understands the Hindu concept of Satchitananda, as well as the Zen koan that ‘the dharma body of the Buddha is in the hedge’ and Buddhist suchness.

SB_UK
11-16-11, 04:33 PM
in
the
moment that feeling
- of being one with the Universe.

Of melting into the background.
We become panoramic.

... ... ... of belonging.

That feeling of serenity,bliss.

Without stress; peculiar neural fireworks blossom around the body.

So many attempts by people who we follow, through history, to describe the serenity of transcending that irritating 'know-it-all' mind.

~boots~
11-19-11, 02:28 AM
They were a bit too mushy to retain for a week :-).
I have done that before...but when I have to wait long, I simply freeze them, and return them when I can ;-)

SB_UK
11-21-11, 02:19 PM
I have done that before...but when I have to wait long, I simply freeze them, and return them when I can ;-)

Great idea :)

~boots~
11-27-11, 04:37 AM
Great idea :)

I am full of good ideas ;-))

~boots~
11-27-11, 04:55 AM
ps..do sausages contain salt, sugar & starch ? ;-)

~boots~
11-30-11, 03:24 PM
SB....Sausages..where are you???
;-))

~boots~
12-10-11, 06:58 AM
I feel a song is in need here ;-)
Let me recycle one of my old faves!

SB_UK
12-10-11, 08:03 AM
SB....Sausages..where are you???
;-))
Watching America, UK, Europe, China battle it out for first country to bankruptcy

was thinking America, then Greece, then Italy, then Spain, then France -

- but as of the last couple of days - the UK has leapt to the fore.

It really is a race to the bottom.

SB_UK
12-10-11, 08:32 AM
Wondering whether we become more sensitive to acidity (coffee,sugar breakdown products in the mouth) on full moon ?

It's a full moon tonight.

Have always quite liked the idea of fine, medium, gross cycles of pH on fine, medium and gross time-frames underlying evolution.

With the fine, medium and gross cycles (up and down) of pH representing the effects of 3 (fine, medium and gross astronomical cycles) to which we're subject; that the point in each of the astronomical cycles which we're at - representing an angular velocity of our environment - which is transduced into pH - whereby - the 'quicker' point we're at in these 3 cycles
- the more acid our (internal) environment (the greater the growth rate).

Acidity associated with growth and alkalinity with the opposite (selection for efficiency).

This kinda' scheme would result in a constant evolutionary selective pressure alternating growth with efficiency - driving evolution forwards; the tendency to complexity.

When growth in a structure becomes unwieldy, the structure collapses into more efficient form to handle the then reduced (decreasing acidity) energetic availability; so - evolutionary selection from a mixture of growth making the structure unwieldy (unstable) and reduced energy necessitating reduced energetic requirement of the structure (structural collapse into more efficient form).

There's a connection to the mind here - where we appear to have grown a large number of incompatible belief systems - which appear (at least as far as I can see)
- to have collapsed down into just 1 belief system.

I can't see any contradiction between, for instance, the various schools of religion.

As far as I can see - we're left with only 1 belief system - to set in place a societal structure which permits the best for the species currently - and for future generations.

The new (social) reward system (described in the pair bonding thread).

neewsmonth
12-13-11, 06:59 PM
Sorry guys for taking you back on earth, have you come to any conclusion ?

This thread is far beyond my brain's capacity, anyone cares to sum it ?

Besides, one more thing :

It's a common indication to try gluten-free diet for adhd/autism. If that happens to work, is it always attributed to the celiac disease, ot it is possible that you have NO celiac, yet gluten-free diet relieves the symptoms ?

The question is important : How can we advocate for such a strict diet (gluten free is really hard to implement), if the effectiveness vs placebo is impossible to tell ?