View Full Version : "Quit smoking pot and we'll get back to you in four months."


mrgreyshadow
08-12-11, 06:41 PM
So...


For the last week or two I've been in a hypomanic episode.

It had the same trigger mood-wise as the last one when I was on Paxil four months ago: I got super depressed, stressed out, and couldn't work, then had brief thoughts of suicide and an epiphany that I shouldn't care about anything because suicide wasn't going to change my life for the better. Then I felt fantastic, I was openly hostile and aggressive rather than passive and quiet, and I felt really happy. I got five or so hours of sleep every night and it lasted until a week after I stopped the paxil (I had only been on paxil for 12 days).

This time it started the same way, but I've only been taking 5-htp and my normal dose of dexedrine. I've been using this combo for four months or so.

Since it lasted more than four days, so I decided it was more than coincidence and that I was having an episode. So I decided to call up my clinic (the only ones in town that take medicaid) and tell them about it. That Friday I saw a psych nurse, then she referred me to a psychiatrist today.

My normal psychiatrist is out of town and she and I agreed we should watch out for any kind of adverse moods. Apparently, though, she put on my file that there was "no evidence of mood disorder."

So I tell the psychiatrist guy all that I see here. He asks about my mood history, my drug use, and that kind of thing. I was shooting for him to give me Lamotrigine, because it works as a mood stabilizer (and I want to be stable) and it was tested by GlaxoSmithKline for adult AD/HD with insignificant and inconclusive cognitive results other than in serial 7s. I figure it'll do nothing or it'll stabilize my mood and make me functional. I don't have time to lose because my grades are terrible and I need to be functional.

I was willing to try it for a few months in lieu of my normal stimulants, even.

Now, after I told him this, he decided I had addictive behaviors toward marijuana and that they are "muddying the waters" of my other diagnoses. He said that all of my diagnoses are "on hold" until I quit pot for "three to four months" because "that's how long it takes for neurotransmitters to return to normal."



I asked him if he had bipolar I patients who smoked pot and if he still treated them he. He said he did.

I asked him if he had treated AD/HD patients who smoked pot. He said he did, and he thought there was "nothing ethically wrong with using marijuana." But he said that he's "treating my cannabis abuse and dependence" until we can reassess my symptoms.

I asked him if he understood that I'm only doing this because my GPA is about 1.5, I'm going into my senior year in college, and that I don't want my hypomanic symptoms to get worse. I am out of the little bipolar closet here, I just want to get better. He said he understood that, but that he "doesn't know what" he's treating until then.


First of all, I haven't seen a doctor in months because they take Medicaid at my clinic and I have to wait three ****ing months to because of Medicaid funding in Arizona. Now there's this. I use pot maybe ever other to every three days, and I spend maybe $50 on it a month. I don't abuse pot. I'm not dependent on it. Maybe 20% of the time I use it I'm bored, and the 80% of the time it's to have some kind of stress relief or escape that allows me to sleep. Hell, a lot of that 80% it's because I can't sleep on the stimulants they give me -- which, by the way, do great things for my ability to do homework that I never did before I started getting stimulant treatment.



I didn't have manic episodes on stimulant treatment alone. I didn't have them on prozac two years ago after I broke up with a girlfriend and got depressed. The prozac didn't work well and friends introduced me to pot, which was a far more effective antidepressant.



I told him all this and now he's decided I don't have AD/HD until four months down the road when he forgets who I am because he's an *******. In fact, he forgot he's the one who prescribed me the Paxil four months ago and the Adderall five months ago. Because he's a stupid *******.


So that's where I am now. I'm someone who doesn't have AD/HD, effectively, until I quit smoking pot for four months. I wouldn't mind that, even, if those four months weren't practically all of my fall semester.

I'm just ****ed now. Why would you refuse a mood stabilizer -- a drug impossible to abuse -- to someone showing manic symptoms? Why would you insist on the patient quitting every drug they're using even though bipolar patients are prone to abuse substances? Why would substance abuse (not what I do) negate an AD/HD diagnosis or a bipolar diagnosis?



Basically. WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH THIS SON OF A *****?!


I mean. I'm going to play his stupid ****ing game. I will quit every psychotropic. I'm not happy to, sure. I don't care if he insists on me not having marijuana. That's easy to quit. Ecstasy, shrooms, designer drugs, whatever-the-hell-else... I don't care. Those are easy to quit. Hell, I didn't even get withdrawals when I stopped dexedrine in June when I forgot to fill my script and didn't have enough for the copay (two and a half weeks without). That's easy to quit. Alcohol? Walk in the park. Melatonin. Sure. 5-htp. Why not? Fish oil. Less acne? Okay. I think the only issue I'll have is quitting caffeine. But it can be done.


I'm just mad he's going to take away my dexedrine -- something I've never abused or over-used and the only drug they've given me without bad side effects or high. This is despite my diagnosis, my differential diagnosis, a lifetime of symptoms and poor grades (despite them measuring my IQ at 135). I'm feel invalidated. I'm trying to be honest and admit that yeah, I probably have a bipolar spectrum illness, but he refuses to treat that too.




But I want to know -- do you any of you guys use pot along with your stimulants? Does it make them less effective? Have any of you quit using pot for a long time and had better AD/HD symptoms with or without a stimulant? Do any of you bipolars use pot? Does it make your symptoms worse or more unpredictable? Have they ever gone away when you quit using pot?

sarahsweets
08-12-11, 08:35 PM
I'm not sure I support your doctor refusing you lamictal or Dexedrine but if your using pot then just stop. You said yourself its no big deal. It is possible that it is affecting your mood and if you hage a low GPA then a relaxing downer sort of thing may not be whats best for you. Still I would go over his head somehow and try to explain things to another doctor because yanking you off an effective med doesn't seem right either.

mrgreyshadow
08-12-11, 09:22 PM
I'm not sure I support your doctor refusing you lamictal or Dexedrine but if your using pot then just stop. You said yourself its no big deal. It is possible that it is affecting your mood and if you hage a low GPA then a relaxing downer sort of thing may not be whats best for you. Still I would go over his head somehow and try to explain things to another doctor because yanking you off an effective med doesn't seem right either.


Apparently every other doctor is on vacation at the clinic, but my normal doctor (who's had me stable on dexedrine for the last four months) probably wouldn't refuse me my normal prescription.

I just feel irritated. Is there some kind of science that indicates marijuana causes manic depression and retroactively caused all of my AD/HD symptoms before I went to this clinic?

Medicatedme
08-12-11, 09:24 PM
Just an opinion here...but I think it is somewhat common to self medicated when u have either bp or add. So maybe those meds are not working for you.

Personally I found it very hard to stop toking until I found the right meds. After i was put on the right combination of meds i quit the pot and never looked back. In retrospect I think I smoked to slow down my mind and sooth the anxiety.

I can not understand the reasoning behind cutting out all you prescribed meds. Why not try to find a mood stabilizer that works and build off that.

pechemignonne
08-12-11, 10:09 PM
They shouldn't withhold your ADHD meds in order to get you to quit smoking pot.

Sounds like the doc doesn't know you and is trying to cover his a## in case you're taking ADHD drugs because you're a drug addict.

Which makes me mad. ---> :mad:

anonuser999
08-25-11, 07:10 PM
So...


For the last week or two I've been in a hypomanic episode.

It had the same trigger mood-wise as the last one when I was on Paxil four months ago: I got super depressed, stressed out, and couldn't work, then had brief thoughts of suicide and an epiphany that I shouldn't care about anything because suicide wasn't going to change my life for the better. Then I felt fantastic, I was openly hostile and aggressive rather than passive and quiet, and I felt really happy. I got five or so hours of sleep every night and it lasted until a week after I stopped the paxil (I had only been on paxil for 12 days).

This time it started the same way, but I've only been taking 5-htp and my normal dose of dexedrine. I've been using this combo for four months or so.

Since it lasted more than four days, so I decided it was more than coincidence and that I was having an episode. So I decided to call up my clinic (the only ones in town that take medicaid) and tell them about it. That Friday I saw a psych nurse, then she referred me to a psychiatrist today.

My normal psychiatrist is out of town and she and I agreed we should watch out for any kind of adverse moods. Apparently, though, she put on my file that there was "no evidence of mood disorder."

So I tell the psychiatrist guy all that I see here. He asks about my mood history, my drug use, and that kind of thing. I was shooting for him to give me Lamotrigine, because it works as a mood stabilizer (and I want to be stable) and it was tested by GlaxoSmithKline for adult AD/HD with insignificant and inconclusive cognitive results other than in serial 7s. I figure it'll do nothing or it'll stabilize my mood and make me functional. I don't have time to lose because my grades are terrible and I need to be functional.

I was willing to try it for a few months in lieu of my normal stimulants, even.

Now, after I told him this, he decided I had addictive behaviors toward marijuana and that they are "muddying the waters" of my other diagnoses. He said that all of my diagnoses are "on hold" until I quit pot for "three to four months" because "that's how long it takes for neurotransmitters to return to normal."



I asked him if he had bipolar I patients who smoked pot and if he still treated them he. He said he did.

I asked him if he had treated AD/HD patients who smoked pot. He said he did, and he thought there was "nothing ethically wrong with using marijuana." But he said that he's "treating my cannabis abuse and dependence" until we can reassess my symptoms.

I asked him if he understood that I'm only doing this because my GPA is about 1.5, I'm going into my senior year in college, and that I don't want my hypomanic symptoms to get worse. I am out of the little bipolar closet here, I just want to get better. He said he understood that, but that he "doesn't know what" he's treating until then.


First of all, I haven't seen a doctor in months because they take Medicaid at my clinic and I have to wait three ****ing months to because of Medicaid funding in Arizona. Now there's this. I use pot maybe ever other to every three days, and I spend maybe $50 on it a month. I don't abuse pot. I'm not dependent on it. Maybe 20% of the time I use it I'm bored, and the 80% of the time it's to have some kind of stress relief or escape that allows me to sleep. Hell, a lot of that 80% it's because I can't sleep on the stimulants they give me -- which, by the way, do great things for my ability to do homework that I never did before I started getting stimulant treatment.



I didn't have manic episodes on stimulant treatment alone. I didn't have them on prozac two years ago after I broke up with a girlfriend and got depressed. The prozac didn't work well and friends introduced me to pot, which was a far more effective antidepressant.



I told him all this and now he's decided I don't have AD/HD until four months down the road when he forgets who I am because he's an *******. In fact, he forgot he's the one who prescribed me the Paxil four months ago and the Adderall five months ago. Because he's a stupid *******.


So that's where I am now. I'm someone who doesn't have AD/HD, effectively, until I quit smoking pot for four months. I wouldn't mind that, even, if those four months weren't practically all of my fall semester.

I'm just ****ed now. Why would you refuse a mood stabilizer -- a drug impossible to abuse -- to someone showing manic symptoms? Why would you insist on the patient quitting every drug they're using even though bipolar patients are prone to abuse substances? Why would substance abuse (not what I do) negate an AD/HD diagnosis or a bipolar diagnosis?



Basically. WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH THIS SON OF A *****?!


I mean. I'm going to play his stupid ****ing game. I will quit every psychotropic. I'm not happy to, sure. I don't care if he insists on me not having marijuana. That's easy to quit. Ecstasy, shrooms, designer drugs, whatever-the-hell-else... I don't care. Those are easy to quit. Hell, I didn't even get withdrawals when I stopped dexedrine in June when I forgot to fill my script and didn't have enough for the copay (two and a half weeks without). That's easy to quit. Alcohol? Walk in the park. Melatonin. Sure. 5-htp. Why not? Fish oil. Less acne? Okay. I think the only issue I'll have is quitting caffeine. But it can be done.


I'm just mad he's going to take away my dexedrine -- something I've never abused or over-used and the only drug they've given me without bad side effects or high. This is despite my diagnosis, my differential diagnosis, a lifetime of symptoms and poor grades (despite them measuring my IQ at 135). I'm feel invalidated. I'm trying to be honest and admit that yeah, I probably have a bipolar spectrum illness, but he refuses to treat that too.




But I want to know -- do you any of you guys use pot along with your stimulants? Does it make them less effective? Have any of you quit using pot for a long time and had better AD/HD symptoms with or without a stimulant? Do any of you bipolars use pot? Does it make your symptoms worse or more unpredictable? Have they ever gone away when you quit using pot?

I know that you're frustrated, but I think you have a misunderstanding about Bipolar, ADHD and some of the approaches commonly used in medicating, diagnosing, etc. You seem to be trying to do too much of your own mental health research and diagnosing - Regardless of your opinion of your doctors, of any of our opinions of our doctors, they are roughly 20,000 times more qualified to identify these issues than we are. I also think that you have severely underestimated the impact marijuana has had on your life, and it would appear that you're looking for input that supports you either going back to or continuing to smoke pot.

Let's take a look at your ADHD situation first. If dexedrine helped you in the past and didn't cause any sort of issues, I would suggest that you go the route of trying to get back on that or another stimulant medication. Stimulants act as mood stabilizers in many ADHD cases, both typical and atypical, so you may gain enough relief from finding an ADHD medication that works for you.

Bipolar Disorder isn't a few nights of reduced sleep, some mood flucuations and the random occurence of a few grandious thoughts. If you were Bipolar 1, you would basically have a neon flashing sign over your head that would start blinking as soon as most any psychiatrist looked at you. A bipolar 1 mood shift isn't something minor - You become an entirely different person and often times have no memory of what happened while you were manic. Even hypomania, which is more prevalent in Bipolar 2, is characterized by noticably acute behavioral changes and mood alterations that spin waaaaay outside of the normal flucuations.

ADHD and Bipolar 2 are virtually identical in symptomology. Mood swings are as common in ADD/ADHD as they are in BP2 (if not more common) and the 'upswing' for ADHDers can sometimes feel like hypomania, especialy when you have other substances involved.

The type of Bipolar that requires a mood stabilizer is the kind that results in you walking into a bar and assaulting a complete stranger, breaking down in the middle of a public place in hysterical tears, going on ridiculous and destructive impulse 'missions' where you spend all of your money or engage in risky, self-destructive behavior while in your manic / hypomanic phase. Mood stabilizers aren't fun medications, especially for men, and I would say that a good amount of people who are on them would saw off one of their legs to be able to be off of them. You absolutely do not sound like you need a mood stabilizer, and I don't think you really want one, either.

The advice your doctor is giving you is accurate. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but virtually any doctor is going to tell you the same thing. Marijuana, as he said and I believe and many others here and in the medical community believe, is not ethically wrong and can be helpful, positive and wonderful for a large amount of people. Unfortunately, it is a wild card when it comes to mental health, and the variance in types, potency and dosage make it impossible to really pinpoint what sort of effect it is having on you.

More than anything, pot makes it impossible to evaluate your medication correctly. It also makes establishing a core diagnosis impossible. It can cause mood shifts that resemble hypomania, mania and depression. Prolonged use can make depression worse, even if it made it better when use began. It can exacerbate or improve ADHD symptoms depending on the person and it can cause any number of bizarre interactions with stimulants / SSRIs and triglyceride antidepressants. Regardless of your perception of marijuana and the positive or negative impact it has had on your life, you need to stop using it if you really want answers to your questions. If you choose not to, you will likely stay on this medication merry-go-round and continue to experience variance and instability.

Your experience with Paxil does not necessarily mean that you are Bipolar, and I would say that what you experienced is fairly standard to what many people experience when starting an antidepressant. The 'begining' stages can be extremely up and down mood-wise, with all sorts of different emotional highs and lows. Stopping after twelve days without the emergence of a pronounced manic state was likely an incomplete evaluation of the medication. It could very well have been your depression lifting, and the negative symptoms you described could have gone away over time.

Dexedrine and 5 wouldn't trigger a manic episode in Charlie Sheen, much less anyone with a understated version of Bipolar. While mood shifts don't require an outside chemical to trigger, it sounds like there could be a number of different integers causing the emotional changes.

For instance, if you have attempted to cut back or have stopped smoking pot for a while, you can experience a significant number of withdrawal symptoms. If the strength of the marijuana you're getting has reduced or another drug change has impacted your dopamine / melatonin levels, you can experience these same symptoms. Euphoria and grandiosity is often felt as marijuana users detox or change THC amounts, and this is usually accompanied by mood swings, angry outbursts, bouts of depression and elation and various physical issues as well. Marijuana withdrawal or a change in the amount used looks a loooot like Bipolar. A -lot- like it.

Now that I've been contrary, I'll try to be helpful.

I have used pretty much every drug known to man in abundance at one point or another, marijuana included. I have an extremely high opinion of it, used it daily for over two years at one point and typically had access to the same basically radioactive stuff that Ray Allen of the Boston Celtics smokes. I loved pot. My psych basically had to punch me in the face to get me to understand that a lot of the variance I was experiencing in medication trials and in my emotional spectrum was due to my marijuana use - Either directly from the marijuana, or from it exacerbating whatever my core diagnosis was. You know, the one we could never figure out because I was constantly flooding my brain with pot. Literally *everyone* in my family is Bipolar, so when I went in after what I thought was a manic episode from Adderall and Wellbutrin (and daily pot use) I was 100% sure my Bipness had finally emerged - This was not the case, however.

I finally listened after about five months and tapered my use off. This was -brutal-. Since ADD is widely believed to be a dopamine-related issue, removing a dopamine-enchancing chemical from your system is going to be harder on an ADDer than others. Go into the Substance Abuse forum and check it out, a lot of us have had a hell of a time quitting. When I was clean, I started on Wellbutrin, Zoloft and continued use of Adderall - Within two or three months, my moods stabilized, I was able to identify what the medications were and weren't doing and had my diagnosis, peace of mind and most of my life back. He's right about the long period of time to get your neurotransmitters back to 'normal' - I was a fruitcake for at least three months after I quit, but it's worth it.

I suggest you try to quit pot and work with your psych after you've been able to go the four months without it. No amount of frustration, anger or obstinance is going to change his mind, and you'll have a hard time finding a shrink who is willing to perscribe stimulants to someone who is actively using a narcotic.

I would *strongly* suggest you try Wellbutrin. Ask for it now, as it helps people go through detox from anything dopamine related - Marijuana, cocaine, you name it. It treats ADHD and depression and for me, was the single greatest thing I ever did in terms of ending my love affair with substance abuse. It has a huge impact on mood, is perscribed to Bipolar patients on the regular without occurences of mania and has next to no negative side effects for most people. It sounds like it could really help you and your four-headed mystery diagnosis, it definitely did mine.

alkalineashes
08-25-11, 08:18 PM
I believe if one can go straight to pot and avoid ssris, they should be ok..(has been shown to cause neurogenesis, just like ssris). My troubles didn't start till mixing the two. Did nothin for my motivation and raised anxiety..marijuana is also all different. Stoney indicas will relax and relieve pain with soaring sativa provide energy and confidence but possibly hypomania and panic. As for me, I would love to be able to have a combo of adderall and weed but im still getting over some weed anxiety issues.keep in mind im in california where I have a medical marijuana license for depression, and other mental problems.

mrgreyshadow
09-21-11, 03:18 PM
I know that you're frustrated, but I think you have a misunderstanding about Bipolar, ADHD and some of the approaches commonly used in medicating, diagnosing, etc. You seem to be trying to do too much of your own mental health research and diagnosing - Regardless of your opinion of your doctors, of any of our opinions of our doctors, they are roughly 20,000 times more qualified to identify these issues than we are. I also think that you have severely underestimated the impact marijuana has had on your life, and it would appear that you're looking for input that supports you either going back to or continuing to smoke pot.

I'm not looking for validation that supports me using pot. I understand that it can cause mood swings that make this situation worse. Right now I'm a month and six days without. It's been ****ty, but I'm also a month and six days without dexedrine and a month in my senior year. I am on academic probation. I am going to be forced to drop out of college if I fail this semester. I have no bootstraps to pull myself up from. I am stressed to no end. I have frequent suicidal thoughts. I don't think I can handle college and I'm already one very nice sports car in debt paying for it. I am the first person in my family to go to a university. I work 30 hours a week.

I still have no motivation to do classwork.

Dexedrine helped me with that.

What I don't understand is why he didn't prescribe anything and why he didn't simply say, "I'm going to keep you on stimulants and you need to quit smoking pot."

He could have also said, "I'm going to put you on Wellbutrin and you need to quit smoking pot." I've been on Wellbutrin before -- it didn't make my inattention go away, but it certainly made my depression go away.

Because of the inattention, I was put on ritalin, then on concerta, then on adderall, and most recently on dexedrine. All of the stimulants worked, but I wanted to find the one with the least adverse side effects. That was dexedrine for me. I don't understand the logic of the one-off single-appointment doctor who has decided I don't have AD/HD because I smoked marijuana at the time of the appointment with him. My differential diagnosis was after three weeks of abstinence and Wellbutrin use. All of my life before then I've had symptoms.

I am ****ed off because it matters now more than ever that I get treated for AD/HD but this doctor is being an ******* and does not understand that I've never done homework before the second it was due until I took the ritalin they prescribed.


Let's take a look at your ADHD situation first. If dexedrine helped you in the past and didn't cause any sort of issues, I would suggest that you go the route of trying to get back on that or another stimulant medication. Stimulants act as mood stabilizers in many ADHD cases, both typical and atypical, so you may gain enough relief from finding an ADHD medication that works for you.


Yeah, it did work. I never wanted them to stop that medication unless I am bipolar and that's making things worse.



Bipolar Disorder isn't a few nights of reduced sleep, some mood flucuations and the random occurence of a few grandious thoughts. If you were Bipolar 1, you would basically have a neon flashing sign over your head that would start blinking as soon as most any psychiatrist looked at you. A bipolar 1 mood shift isn't something minor - You become an entirely different person and often times have no memory of what happened while you were manic. Even hypomania, which is more prevalent in Bipolar 2, is characterized by noticably acute behavioral changes and mood alterations that spin waaaaay outside of the normal flucuations.


The neon sign you're talking about is the one the psychiatric nurse noticed in the follow-up appointment about two weeks after Paxil. I was completely in denial about it and I was really angry with the nurse. I filed a complaint against her.


ADHD and Bipolar 2 are virtually identical in symptomology. Mood swings are as common in ADD/ADHD as they are in BP2 (if not more common) and the 'upswing' for ADHDers can sometimes feel like hypomania, especialy when you have other substances involved.

The type of Bipolar that requires a mood stabilizer is the kind that results in you walking into a bar and assaulting a complete stranger, breaking down in the middle of a public place in hysterical tears, going on ridiculous and destructive impulse 'missions' where you spend all of your money or engage in risky, self-destructive behavior while in your manic / hypomanic phase. Mood stabilizers aren't fun medications, especially for men, and I would say that a good amount of people who are on them would saw off one of their legs to be able to be off of them. You absolutely do not sound like you need a mood stabilizer, and I don't think you really want one, either.


I broke down and cried in front of my bosses when they had a meeting with me about me showing up late. I'm a 21-year-old male. I cried at work when Gabby Giffords was shot. I have gone on really obsessive, angry letter-writing campaigns to all the members of my university's administration when I got fired from the newspaper for yelling at my editor for cutting a piece I wrote. I told a creative writing instructor she was a ***** and she made me feel like I was drowning when she didn't let me continue showing up to class because I missed too many of them. I didn't show up to class because I was anxious and paranoid about what my peers thought of me. I didn't want to leave the house because I kept ruminating over one very subtly negative comment one of the other students made on day 2.

I'm not your ideal picture of stability here. While I was smoking pot during these episodes, I wasn't in freshman year when I first got hired on the newspaper. I wrote this nasty comment about an editor's writing. I nearly got fired, but they said they liked my writing too much and it was very odd behavior for me.


Before that, I thought these cupcakes at an editorial board meeting made me feel really high because they were drugged. The next day, people who ate more cupcakes than me said they weren't drugged. I felt high for no reason.

There are a bunch of other episodes feeling totally euphoric, insomniac and self-assured for no reason scattered throughout my life, but they were nothing compared to Paxil. They were just feeling good for a year straight and feeling like absolute **** for the year after that.


So... I'm pretty sure I'm bipolar to some degree. I've accepted it now. While antidepressants and other fun chemicals exacerbate the problem, I think I had it before I ever touched a psychotropic.



The advice your doctor is giving you is accurate. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but virtually any doctor is going to tell you the same thing. Marijuana, as he said and I believe and many others here and in the medical community believe, is not ethically wrong and can be helpful, positive and wonderful for a large amount of people. Unfortunately, it is a wild card when it comes to mental health, and the variance in types, potency and dosage make it impossible to really pinpoint what sort of effect it is having on you.

More than anything, pot makes it impossible to evaluate your medication correctly. It also makes establishing a core diagnosis impossible. It can cause mood shifts that resemble hypomania, mania and depression. Prolonged use can make depression worse, even if it made it better when use began. It can exacerbate or improve ADHD symptoms depending on the person and it can cause any number of bizarre interactions with stimulants / SSRIs and triglyceride antidepressants. Regardless of your perception of marijuana and the positive or negative impact it has had on your life, you need to stop using it if you really want answers to your questions. If you choose not to, you will likely stay on this medication merry-go-round and continue to experience variance and instability.


Your experience with Paxil does not necessarily mean that you are Bipolar, and I would say that what you experienced is fairly standard to what many people experience when starting an antidepressant. The 'begining' stages can be extremely up and down mood-wise, with all sorts of different emotional highs and lows. Stopping after twelve days without the emergence of a pronounced manic state was likely an incomplete evaluation of the medication. It could very well have been your depression lifting, and the negative symptoms you described could have gone away over time.


It was a clinically identified manic state when I was on Paxil. I know that I don't genuinely feel or act that way ever. I was hallucinating.


Dexedrine and 5 wouldn't trigger a manic episode in Charlie Sheen, much less anyone with a understated version of Bipolar. While mood shifts don't require an outside chemical to trigger, it sounds like there could be a number of different integers causing the emotional changes.

For instance, if you have attempted to cut back or have stopped smoking pot for a while, you can experience a significant number of withdrawal symptoms. If the strength of the marijuana you're getting has reduced or another drug change has impacted your dopamine / melatonin levels, you can experience these same symptoms. Euphoria and grandiosity is often felt as marijuana users detox or change THC amounts, and this is usually accompanied by mood swings, angry outbursts, bouts of depression and elation and various physical issues as well. Marijuana withdrawal or a change in the amount used looks a loooot like Bipolar. A -lot- like it.


Fair enough.


Now that I've been contrary, I'll try to be helpful.

I have used pretty much every drug known to man in abundance at one point or another, marijuana included. I have an extremely high opinion of it, used it daily for over two years at one point and typically had access to the same basically radioactive stuff that Ray Allen of the Boston Celtics smokes. I loved pot. My psych basically had to punch me in the face to get me to understand that a lot of the variance I was experiencing in medication trials and in my emotional spectrum was due to my marijuana use - Either directly from the marijuana, or from it exacerbating whatever my core diagnosis was. You know, the one we could never figure out because I was constantly flooding my brain with pot. Literally *everyone* in my family is Bipolar, so when I went in after what I thought was a manic episode from Adderall and Wellbutrin (and daily pot use) I was 100% sure my Bipness had finally emerged - This was not the case, however.

I finally listened after about five months and tapered my use off. This was -brutal-. Since ADD is widely believed to be a dopamine-related issue, removing a dopamine-enchancing chemical from your system is going to be harder on an ADDer than others. Go into the Substance Abuse forum and check it out, a lot of us have had a hell of a time quitting. When I was clean, I started on Wellbutrin, Zoloft and continued use of Adderall - Within two or three months, my moods stabilized, I was able to identify what the medications were and weren't doing and had my diagnosis, peace of mind and most of my life back. He's right about the long period of time to get your neurotransmitters back to 'normal' - I was a fruitcake for at least three months after I quit, but it's worth it.


That's encouraging. Thanks.


I suggest you try to quit pot and work with your psych after you've been able to go the four months without it. No amount of frustration, anger or obstinance is going to change his mind, and you'll have a hard time finding a shrink who is willing to perscribe stimulants to someone who is actively using a narcotic.


I'm not using a narcotic, but yeah, I'm not against quitting smoking pot. I just don't like that my stimulants are being used as collateral for this little diagnostic adventure the one-time doctor is putting me on while I'm on academic probation and freaking the **** out.


I would *strongly* suggest you try Wellbutrin. Ask for it now, as it helps people go through detox from anything dopamine related - Marijuana, cocaine, you name it. It treats ADHD and depression and for me, was the single greatest thing I ever did in terms of ending my love affair with substance abuse. It has a huge impact on mood, is perscribed to Bipolar patients on the regular without occurences of mania and has next to no negative side effects for most people. It sounds like it could really help you and your four-headed mystery diagnosis, it definitely did mine.

They're not being that flexible. I have another half-hour appointment scheduled in October. In the meantime, despite a differential diagnosis and initial diagnosis during which I'd been completely honest about the entirety of my drug use, this particular doctor noted on my file, "DAILY CANNABIS USE DURING DIAGNOSIS/ DO NOT PRESCRIBE STIMULANTS." I was on wellbutrin during the diagnosis and was not using cannabis daily. I had abstained for three weeks because I wanted to see if wellbutrin would work alone. Before then I was sporadically using pot (maybe once a week) because I was unemployed and couldn't afford it, so friends would smoke me out.

On wellbutrin I didn't use caffeine and I didn't use alcohol, because they would make the effects of wellbutrin a lot more uncomfortable.

So... Yeah... I've considered you've said, and I'd saw off my leg to go on a mood stabilizer if it made me stable and able to pay attention. I've never been on one so I don't know what it'll do. I think it would have been a lot more pragmatic, given the situation I'm in, to put me on a mood stabilizer or at least let me continue taking stimulants, or at the very least, let me take Wellbutrin. I got none of that from them and I now, on paper, do not have the thing that's causing me to fail my classes.

CrushCrush
09-21-11, 03:44 PM
I'm not sure I support your doctor refusing you lamictal or Dexedrine but if your using pot then just stop. You said yourself its no big deal. It is possible that it is affecting your mood and if you hage a low GPA then a relaxing downer sort of thing may not be whats best for you. Still I would go over his head somehow and try to explain things to another doctor because yanking you off an effective med doesn't seem right either.

Pot and stimulants supposedly don't mix.

Pot is always a big deal and hard to quit. Similar to quitting smoking as it becomes a smoking habit.

Do you think Klonopin would be a good crutch for quitting weed? I'm just curious..

SweetCode
09-21-11, 03:55 PM
Pot and stimulants supposedly don't mix.

Pot is always a big deal and hard to quit. Similar to quitting smoking as it becomes a smoking habit.

Do you think Klonopin would be a good crutch for quitting weed? I'm just curious..

Sorry but based in what do you compare cannabis with tobacco?

Maybe you want to see that study http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?DOI=000317249&typ=pdf before comparing cannabis to such a hard drug as tobacco.

mrgreyshadow
09-21-11, 04:23 PM
Pot and stimulants supposedly don't mix.

Pot is always a big deal and hard to quit. Similar to quitting smoking as it becomes a smoking habit.

Do you think Klonopin would be a good crutch for quitting weed? I'm just curious..

I never took klonopin, so I don't know.

Pot was really easy for me to quit... Unless all this stress is residual effects of it. Cigarettes were waaaaaaaaaaay harder, but I figured out it was a stupid idea pretty early in (after about a month). I learned tobacco has radioactive polonium in it and it's impossible to remove. Weirdly enough, I have had more cigarette cravings in the last month than pot cravings.

sarahsweets
09-21-11, 04:28 PM
Lets cut through the bs.if your not addicted to pot then STOP. There's your easiets solution. ****. The doc and do what he says. According y
To you its no prob stopping so do itw,don't complain and kiss ***. You'll get your dex soo enough.

mrgreyshadow
09-21-11, 04:32 PM
Lets cut through the bs.if your not addicted to pot then STOP. There's your easiets solution. ****. The doc and do what he says. According y
To you its no prob stopping so do itw,don't complain and kiss ***. You'll get your dex soo enough.

I have stopped since I made that post. I have to wait another month before I see a doctor, though.

QED420
11-11-11, 04:42 PM
I never took klonopin, so I don't know.

Pot was really easy for me to quit... Unless all this stress is residual effects of it. Cigarettes were waaaaaaaaaaay harder, but I figured out it was a stupid idea pretty early in (after about a month). I learned tobacco has radioactive polonium in it and it's impossible to remove. Weirdly enough, I have had more cigarette cravings in the last month than pot cravings.

It's the same for me, ive smoked anywhere from 1-5 packs a year forlike the last 5 or so years casue cigarette cravings are the worst and seem to linger forever. I do smoke pot (legally in california) and have quit before (during college I would take semesters off at times to make sure it wasnt affecting my grades, they actually went down when i was off pot, prob casue i was self medicating ad/hd and didnt know it, couldn't sit through a whole lecture sober so i didnt go to class a lot) and it is hard becasue you are bored for a few days, sometimes irritable, but never for longer than a week or two.

Also it doesn't look Like OP's problem is quitting pot, his problem is that the Dr. is blaming all his problems on pot and refusing to treat him, even though he had agreed to quit pot. In my experience you get one of two kidns of Doc when it comes to weed. one that may want you to quit but has a reasonable perspective of its effects, and ones that assume anyone who has smoked pot is a major druggy which is why their life is falling apart. Has this Doctor investigated the "core " cause of your smoking? I feel like pot is more often an effect than a cause.

Sickle
06-05-15, 09:37 PM
The thing about the marijuana is research.

karbouris
09-20-15, 12:28 PM
Pot and stimulants supposedly don't mix.

Pot is always a big deal and hard to quit. Similar to quitting smoking as it becomes a smoking habit.

Do you think Klonopin would be a good crutch for quitting weed? I'm just curious..

I think pot addiction is variant on the person. I was able to start and stop with no problems. However I tried pot and adderall (not recreationally but as prescribed) once. It was the most emotionally traumatic thing I have ever experienced. I just felt dead. So yeah it is a bad idea lol.

karbouris
09-20-15, 12:46 PM
Apparently every other doctor is on vacation at the clinic, but my normal doctor (who's had me stable on dexedrine for the last four months) probably wouldn't refuse me my normal prescription.

I just feel irritated. Is there some kind of science that indicates marijuana causes manic depression and retroactively caused all of my AD/HD symptoms before I went to this clinic?

Ok, I'm just throwing this out here. I don't mean this to sound rude but You're lucky they are willing to prescribe it to you after you stop smoking, sometimes they won't prescribe Anything after you confess to substance abuse. Mine doesn't. However they don't know I smoked in the past. However, if you like the way pot makes you feel, have you ever thought about trying Celexa? I think it works on the same serotonin receptors. I take 10mgs before I go to sleep, I lost complete and utter interest in weed.

Greyhound1
09-20-15, 02:32 PM
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