View Full Version : Desoxyn + Zoloft (or any ssri)?


FocusPocus10
08-23-11, 07:21 PM
I'm currently taking 40mg IR Dexedrine + 100mg Zoloft ED. My focus has been OK, however, I think desoxyn may be more effective for treating my ADHD. My logic is that people have been saying they can "focus when they choose to on desoxyn", which is exactly what I want. I don't like how dexedrine makes me "locked" into whatever im doing, if that makes sense.

But some have noted that desoxyn can effect serotonin, so can it not be mixed with zoloft? Also am I naive for thinking it'll give me better results than dex with less sides?

sarahsweets
08-23-11, 07:56 PM
Good luck getting desoxyn. Its almost methamphetamine and a last resort med. If you walk into a doctors office and ask for that I would be surprised if any doctor would offer you that.

FocusPocus10
08-23-11, 09:21 PM
I have a great relationship with my doctor and he trusts me. and while dexedrine "works", I feel that deosxyn might be better with less side effects. pretty confident my doctor would allow it, but I was wondering if it would go along well with an SSRI? Also, don't be fooled by the word "meth", it just means methylated amphetamine. essentially the same thing when it reaches the brain, just more effective for some people, as I understand it.

relax21
08-24-11, 09:14 AM
Good luck getting desoxyn. Its almost methamphetamine...

It's not almost methamphetamine... It IS methamphetamine.

But some have noted that desoxyn can effect serotonin, so can it not be mixed with zoloft? Also am I naive for thinking it'll give me better results than dex with less sides?

Yes, Desoxyn does play a bigger role on serotonin. Desoxyn (like Dexedrine) is an anti-depressant in itself. I don't think it would be a problem to mix Zoloft with it because you're taking Dexedrine and Zoloft together with no problem.

Desoxyn is rapidly absorbed and hits the brain a lot faster than other stimulants. Also, because of the methyl group Desoxyn is able to easily break the blood brain barrier making it more potent and longer lasting. (Think of it like you're being punched in the arm.. The harder the punch the longer you feel the sting afterwards) It acts much more on the central nervous system and much less on the peripheral nervous system compared to other stimulants which is why some find it more effective and more tolerable than other medications.

FocusPocus10
08-24-11, 10:23 PM
It's not almost methamphetamine... It IS methamphetamine.



Yes, Desoxyn does play a bigger role on serotonin. Desoxyn (like Dexedrine) is an anti-depressant in itself. I don't think it would be a problem to mix Zoloft with it because you're taking Dexedrine and Zoloft together with no problem.

Desoxyn is rapidly absorbed and hits the brain a lot faster than other stimulants. Also, because of the methyl group Desoxyn is able to easily break the blood brain barrier making it more potent and longer lasting. (Think of it like you're being punched in the arm.. The harder the punch the longer you feel the sting afterwards) It acts much more on the central nervous system and much less on the peripheral nervous system compared to other stimulants which is why some find it more effective and more tolerable than other medications.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm looking forward to trying it. Just curious, are you on desoxyn yourself/do you like it?

sarahsweets
08-25-11, 06:11 AM
If dexedrine is working at least a little why try out the most addicting stimulant?

FocusPocus10
08-25-11, 06:45 AM
If dexedrine is working at least a little why try out the most addicting stimulant?

1. It is not the most addicting stimulant. Show me a study to back that up, because from what I've read adderall, dex, and even ritalin are just as "addictive" and "abusable". Supposedly adderall is better for getting "high" than desoxyn.

2. Dexedrine is working a little, but not nearly to a satisfactory degree where ADHD isn't negatively affecting my lifestyle. I want to be as effective as possible.

sarahsweets
08-25-11, 07:33 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
http://www.ehow.com/about_5116442_desoxyn.html

Ok I'm terrible at digging up perfect medical journals that devote their studies to desoxyn. I also know that wiki and ehow are hardly the gold standard for sources. These are just 2 small bits I could find. Yes adderall is huge now when it comes to abuse but I would bet the farm that if more doctors wrote more scripts for desoxyn it would be the drug of choice for college kids. If people were prescribed it more, they would be able to sell it more. I'm just saying that its for extreme cases. Other stimulants, ssri's,snri's etc are tried first. I wouldn't go into a doctors office asking for adderall and I defiantly walk in asking for desoxyn.

FocusPocus10
08-25-11, 12:24 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
http://www.ehow.com/about_5116442_desoxyn.html

Ok I'm terrible at digging up perfect medical journals that devote their studies to desoxyn. I also know that wiki and ehow are hardly the gold standard for sources. These are just 2 small bits I could find. Yes adderall is huge now when it comes to abuse but I would bet the farm that if more doctors wrote more scripts for desoxyn it would be the drug of choice for college kids. If people were prescribed it more, they would be able to sell it more. I'm just saying that its for extreme cases. Other stimulants, ssri's,snri's etc are tried first. I wouldn't go into a doctors office asking for adderall and I defiantly walk in asking for desoxyn.

I'm not trying to fight with you, however, I really think you need to reconsider your harsh view of this medication. Many people see methamphetamine and overreact. I am in fact using this as a last resort med (I listed my other meds in the other thread), but frankly I wish I had tried it right after dexedrine! It should be tried with all people who like dex but get bad side effects IMO. I also understand that everyone has different standards for treatment. I take my condition very seriously, and cannot bear to live without covering my symptoms at least 95% at all times. I realize some people enjoy being hyperactive or whatever some of the time or partially, but that's just not possible for me in my lifestyle and line of work.

Honeybadger
08-28-11, 04:47 AM
To answer your question directly, all amphetamine-based ADD meds are safe to combine with an SSRI, PROVIDED your ADD is being treated properly by your ADD meds.

If you're thinking of changing your ADD med AND starting an SSRI simultaneously, don't. Bad juju can happen and the SSRI can just make your life hell. Same goes for changing your med and keeping an existing SSRI. Don't do that either. Unless there will be serious problems with going off your SSRI, you need to start the ADD med, see if it works at all, and then get the dosage right BEFORE complicating things with something like an SSRI (where dosages have to actually be high enough to create side effects, in order to switch on the hormones responsible for repairing the hippocampus)

SSRI's and untreated/improperly treated ADD are an awful combination. They drop your norepenephrine levels bigtime if your body isn't at a homeostatic level.

Second, you can't just say "desoxyn works for some people, it'll work for me." Desoxyn works best for about 2-3% of ADD patients.

What other meds have you tried? Have you tried tweaking your dextro? Tried adderall? Vyvanse? All of these are dextro variants/combinations that could net you a better result. Simply jumping from square three to square ten is just silly. Have you even tried ritalin?

The science that's going on isn't just "X is more powerful than Y is more powerful than Z" You need to understand that your brain has abnormal dopamine/norepenephrine in a very specific part of your prefrontal cortex, and that the ADD meds are all targeting different areas. Hence, ritalin works for some, but not for others.

Focus, you've called her out in another thread already. And the science backs her up.

It is methamphetamine. Not almost. Not similar to. It's meth. Plain and simple. It's the same meth that people are trying to make in their basements.

Desoxyn isn't addictive when used properly, in patients with ADD. But the problem is that in patients without ADD, or with patients taking too much/misusing it, it's easily the most addictive ADD medication on the shelves.

I'm on desoxyn right now, but am not getting the results I am looking for with it. So while I can't say it's a good/bad medication for me, I can say that getting this stuff is hard. VERY hard. Most insurances (I have double insurance, both extraordinarily good coverage) will make you drop off the scrip, have the pharmacy call the doctor and request authorization, have the doctor call insurance, argue with what the insurance considers a "standard dose (usually 10mg daily max, which is far too low)" and then, will authorize it. And then, your pharmacy will have to order the med. And then, the insurance will charge you arms, legs, and testicles to actually buy it (Thankfully my insurance made it a flat copay of $40, but the receipt says the market value was over $450. not as bad as provigil, but still crazy.)

So until you've tried everything else, and haven't gotten results, don't try to get your hands on desoxyn. It's more trouble than it's worth.

P.S. if you take your condition so seriously, I suggest you read up on what's actually happening in your head. You will learn a lot about how meds work and potentially understand why jumping into desoxyn blindly is a silly idea

http://www.adultaddfacts.com/

P.P.S. If you have tried ALL the other meds outside of potentially provigil, I'd say go right ahead and try desoxyn. As long as you're careful and slow with your dosages, and are taking it ALONE, establishing the correct dose for you before adding the SSRI back in, you should be fine. Just be careful, because this drug is much less tolerant of misuse, and you can easily wind up addicted.

alexroth
12-29-11, 04:20 PM
Focus is right on the money.

It's always funny when I see people pushing the dangers of ADHD drugs when cigarettes, alcohol and caffeine (3 psychotropic agents which are far more deadly, neurotoxic, and physically toxic to ones health...yes caffeine wreaks havoc on your CNS) can all be picked up at your corner liquor store.

Ideally, one should try to avoid all drugs but the world isn't ideal. So if you're going to do them...stick to pharmaceutical grade substance abuse. Can't remember the last time Desoxyn left me with a 2 week hang over, permanent memory loss, puking up vomit and wishing I was never born. Not to mention a DUI and 10Gs down the drain. Do you understand how bad alcohol is for you? It's pure poison. Desoxyn dangerous? Please. Treat it with respect and you'll never have any issues with it.

Desoxyn is sold in generic. It's not difficult to get anymore. It used to be but ever since it went generic, doctors somehow feel like it's ok to prescribe. Naturally, a pill doesn't become generic unless there is high demand and money to be made. This is capitalism. No money...no drug. An unfortunate truth. There is no altruism in capitalism.

Anyways, anyone can pick up methamphetamine HCL for 10 bucks a pop.

Desoxyn is by far the most popular ADHD drug in my community: the Silicon Valley brat packers. It's regularly prescribed by Palo Alto docs @ doses of 20mg/day. I know a kid that takes 50mg/day with no problems. He has an IQ of 188. That's a point higher than Bobby Fisher.

Theoretically Desoxyn may be the strongest ADHD med but, for most, it feels fairly weak. 20mg of meth feels roughly like 10mg of Dexedrine or 5 mg of Adderall. Except it lacks the peripheral side effects (tremor, anxiety, shortness of breath, heart palpitations, paranoia, sweating, sexual dysfunction, chronic dry mouth and as result:bad breath) typically associated with Adderall and occasionally with Dexedrine.

Adderall, from what I've witnessed first hand, makes people weird and socially withdrawn. It's very easy to spot someone on Adderall. They're just weird, wired, jumpy.

Ever meet a kid that grew up popping magic smurf pills(the blue Adderalls) because mommy and daddy didn't have the time to teach him/her proper coping mechanisms and life skills? These kids are socially awkward...something is just missing. Hard to pin point. Perhaps they had some form of Aspergers to begin with? Who knows? But I wouldn't touch stimulants until well past the age of brain solidification: age 21+. Otherwise you're just stifling your brain with irreversible doodoo damage. Ironically, stimulants are prescribed to children and frowned upon when used by the only group of individuals that should be granted access: responsible adults.

Adderall should be illegal. Regardless of whether or not it works for you, the stuff is just bad news. I mean, if Desoxyn were 100% pure cocaine then Adderall would be really cheap street crack. The only reason Adderall is popular is because it's cheap to manufacture. Why? it's enationmerically impure: a mixture of amphetamine salts. Contains both L- and D- amphetamine isomers.

It's much more expensive for Big Pharma companies to produce an enantiomerically pure drug by isolating the D- isomer. This is the only reason (Dexedrine= d-amphetamine) has grown out of fashion. It's expensive to make. Same goes with Desoxyn. Expensive to make because it is enantiomerically pure dextro-methamphetamine. On top of that, Meth has a horrible stigma associated with it. Why? Because it can be made relatively cheaply on the streets and so naturally we have meth heads and meth labs and entire TV shows like Breaking Bad and Mother's Against Methamphetamine dedicated to perpetuating the myth of Meth. But if one could make Amphetamine in one's basement with products purchased from the local supermarket then the same stigma would exist for Amphetamine(Adderall and Dex). Most doctors are clueless about all this. So are most people.

In regards to abuse potential, sure, desoxyn and dexedrine have more abuse potential than Adderall ... but only because they're more tolerable.

SO should we give patients cheap and flawed drugs because they are less likely to abuse them?? Caffeine is the cheapest stimulant of them all and that poisonous toxin is pushed on every street corner across America. Almost everyone will agree that caffeine makes one feel anxious. Desoxyn is far better for you. Top docs in Palo Alto agree. Desoxyn or 6 shots of espresso in a soup of high fructose corn syrup every day? Desoxyn wins hands down as the healthier of the two poisons.

Don't you understand what abuse is? You only abuse a drug if it works? It's addictive because it feels good and it feels good because it works. If Zoloft did as it was supposed to do and really relieved depression, everyone would be popping it. Instead it's riddled with side effects and is only moderately beneficial in terms of alleviating depression. Big Pharma could care less about abuse potential. Big Pharma is a corporation in a sickly capitalistic environement. It has one goal: survival of the fittest which is determined by one thing: money. Big Pharma's only concern is money, not the patient. Remember that. The only person that cares about you is you. Don't be ignorant to the bliss. Try to see the bigger picture of what's going on. Everyone on these posts is all call up in the insignificant details of this drug or that drug and they really don't know what they're going on about; just trying to feel momentarily self important and lost in egoic thought patterns. There are far more important things to worry about HoneyBadger.

Hands down, Desoxyn is KING of the ADHD drugs. Why? Because it produces the desired effect with minimal side effects. Neurotoxicity is a non-issue at prescribed doses. A double Whopper washed back with a Vanilla milkshake from Burger King is more toxic to your mind than a tablespoon of speed every now and then.

Word.
AR

To answer your question directly, all amphetamine-based ADD meds are safe to combine with an SSRI, PROVIDED your ADD is being treated properly by your ADD meds.

If you're thinking of changing your ADD med AND starting an SSRI simultaneously, don't. Bad juju can happen and the SSRI can just make your life hell. Same goes for changing your med and keeping an existing SSRI. Don't do that either. Unless there will be serious problems with going off your SSRI, you need to start the ADD med, see if it works at all, and then get the dosage right BEFORE complicating things with something like an SSRI (where dosages have to actually be high enough to create side effects, in order to switch on the hormones responsible for repairing the hippocampus)

SSRI's and untreated/improperly treated ADD are an awful combination. They drop your norepenephrine levels bigtime if your body isn't at a homeostatic level.

Second, you can't just say "desoxyn works for some people, it'll work for me." Desoxyn works best for about 2-3% of ADD patients.

What other meds have you tried? Have you tried tweaking your dextro? Tried adderall? Vyvanse? All of these are dextro variants/combinations that could net you a better result. Simply jumping from square three to square ten is just silly. Have you even tried ritalin?

The science that's going on isn't just "X is more powerful than Y is more powerful than Z" You need to understand that your brain has abnormal dopamine/norepenephrine in a very specific part of your prefrontal cortex, and that the ADD meds are all targeting different areas. Hence, ritalin works for some, but not for others.

Focus, you've called her out in another thread already. And the science backs her up.

It is methamphetamine. Not almost. Not similar to. It's meth. Plain and simple. It's the same meth that people are trying to make in their basements.

Desoxyn isn't addictive when used properly, in patients with ADD. But the problem is that in patients without ADD, or with patients taking too much/misusing it, it's easily the most addictive ADD medication on the shelves.

I'm on desoxyn right now, but am not getting the results I am looking for with it. So while I can't say it's a good/bad medication for me, I can say that getting this stuff is hard. VERY hard. Most insurances (I have double insurance, both extraordinarily good coverage) will make you drop off the scrip, have the pharmacy call the doctor and request authorization, have the doctor call insurance, argue with what the insurance considers a "standard dose (usually 10mg daily max, which is far too low)" and then, will authorize it. And then, your pharmacy will have to order the med. And then, the insurance will charge you arms, legs, and testicles to actually buy it (Thankfully my insurance made it a flat copay of $40, but the receipt says the market value was over $450. not as bad as provigil, but still crazy.)

So until you've tried everything else, and haven't gotten results, don't try to get your hands on desoxyn. It's more trouble than it's worth.

P.S. if you take your condition so seriously, I suggest you read up on what's actually happening in your head. You will learn a lot about how meds work and potentially understand why jumping into desoxyn blindly is a silly idea

http://www.adultaddfacts.com/

P.P.S. If you have tried ALL the other meds outside of potentially provigil, I'd say go right ahead and try desoxyn. As long as you're careful and slow with your dosages, and are taking it ALONE, establishing the correct dose for you before adding the SSRI back in, you should be fine. Just be careful, because this drug is much less tolerant of misuse, and you can easily wind up addicted.

pechemignonne
12-29-11, 06:19 PM
Ever meet a kid that grew up popping magic smurf pills(the blue Adderalls) because mommy and daddy didn't have the time to teach him/her proper coping mechanisms and life skills? These kids are socially awkward...something is just missing. Hard to pin point. Perhaps they had some form of Aspergers to begin with? Who knows? But I wouldn't touch stimulants until well past the age of brain solidification: age 21+. Otherwise you're just stifling your brain with irreversible doodoo damage. Ironically, stimulants are prescribed to children and frowned upon when used by the only group of individuals that should be granted access: responsible adults.
Everything about this paragraph is wrong, and this is clear to who knows anything about ADHD and children with ADHD who take stimulant medications.

I would argue point by point, but I suspect it would be a waste of time.

tambourine-man
12-30-11, 02:55 AM
@alexroth

Adderall is not especially cheap or easy to manufacture in comparison with other amphetamines. Adderall contains four amphetamine salts, two of which are enantiomerically pure, the other two are racemic. Therefore, Adderall, is in theory at least twice as difficult to produce as Dexedrine.

Desoxyn is certainly a viable treatment option. I don't think it should be the first choice, nor do I think it should be the last. I take Desoxyn and hope to continue taking it despite it's outrageous cost.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Desoxyn is NOT some particularly recreational or addicting medication. It isn't a panacea either. It has it's pros and cons like any other drug.

At therapeutic doses, Adderall or Dexedrine have stronger subjective effects. Anyway, that's my experience. If I was going to abuse speed, you'd bet I'd be using meth... street meth. If I was going to abuse pills I'd go with Adderall.

Also, taking blue smurf Adderall makes you have Asperger's? Um... what? I've heard a lot of crazy theories for why I'm autistic, but Adderall? Really?!

befitnessnow
01-01-12, 09:52 PM
Second, you can't just say "desoxyn works for some people, it'll work for me." Desoxyn works best for about 2-3% of ADD patients.

Can you link me to literature or studies which prove this? I feel as if that statement is just some percentage you made up in your head :confused:

I would love to be proven wrong but I highly doubt that Desoxyn factually works best for "2-3% of ADD patients".

For the record, I went from Adderall to Dexedrine to Desoxyn and do not remotely feel that I should have tried every single other stimulant first. Obviously this is just a subjective opinion, as is yours but I think Desoxyn should be utulized more often than Adderall.

Yellow
01-06-12, 05:36 AM
good pts here like in the other thread i posted...
i answered in ur journal but people are generally right. main factor = dosages. a small amt of of an ssri with a normal amt of d-meth could prevent neurotoxicity, whereas a normal/high dose of an ssri with just one mg over the line of d-meth = serotonin syndrome. i wouldnt combine if i didnt have to, and since d-meth is really an anti depressant and seems to lessen ur anxiety, maybe try to go as low or not at all on the ssri