View Full Version : Who Actually Takes this?


whatlifeforme
09-28-11, 05:01 PM
Doctors are very resilient to prescribe even vyvanse. Who in the word actually receives the equivalent of methamphetamine (a street drug?)

This medication was probably created by the pharmaceutical companies to be abused by people under the radar (those who work for the companies, created the product, doctors themselves).

I don't think they ever actually give it out. I don't see why. Who's concern is it if someone wants to take a substance to change their feelings, emotions, motivations? This makes no sense.

peripatetic
09-28-11, 05:24 PM
street drugs contain impurities and it's inaccurate to suggest that desoxyn is the exact same thing as street meth.

the intentions for creating medications are probably not to give people something to abuse under the radar:rolleyes: note that this isn't the debates section and keep it apolitical to avoid skirting restricted topics, regardless of your suspicions;)

you are also inaccurate about ...well...i don't think they ever "give it out" either...but some doctors do prescribe it. in past years mine has suggested it as...well...less as a "would you like to try this treatment" and more of a "there aren't many options left...so stick with your presciptions and stop skipping pills here and there and take your damn spansules concurrently because your last stop is the desoxyn station."

i have no idea what you mean about the changing feelings emotions motivations...do you think desoxyn is somehow not a stimulant that, like others could sadly be abused, but isn't solely abused? if you abuse other prescriptioins, they will mess with you...just check out our substance abuse section andsee posts/threads on amphetamine/methylphenidate-induced psychosis. however, LIKE other stimulants, desoxyn would only do that if you were either medication sensitive or abused it.

mctavish23
09-28-11, 06:13 PM
Get A GRIP!!

I take 140mg of Vyvanse daily.

I just turned 61yo on 9/12/11.

I'm a recovering addict,with one day at a time sobriety since 3/25/88.

All of my docs know I'm in recovery.

I only tried stimulants after Straterra almost killed me in 2005.

Prior to that, I took either Wellbutrin or Effexor.

Right now I'm taking Effexor with the Vyvanse.

For whatever reason, stimulants, of which I've been on several,

all make me tired & sleepy.

Vyvanse is the first pro drug; meaning it doesn't become a stimulant

until it metabolizes in your stomach,thus reducing the risk of abuse.

It doesn't say that it "can't" be abused, it's simply an attempt to reduce

the risk.

Most, if not all, insurance companies do not cover Vyvanse unless you've

been on at least two other ADHD related stimulants.

For me, it's the BEST medication I've ever been on.

Period.

I get all the "bells and whistles" of ADDERALL, without the side effects

of "feeling" it wear off, and the incredible mental fatigue.

Bottom line, is that this is a legitimate ADHD medication,which also

allows me to do my job everyday.

Without it, I couldn't continue to work.

Oh, and btw, I'm a Licensed Psychologist (with an MA) in MN.,with

a 27+ yr specialty outpatient practice in ADHD.

Along the way, and certainly with the help of the FORUM, I've managed

to develop some measure of expertise on the subject;none of which

helps me get the work done without my meds.

I wish you luck on your own issues, but the validity of Vyvanse as a

treatment for ADHD, is not some type of scam.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

ADHD0905
09-28-11, 08:53 PM
Doctors are very resilient to prescribe even vyvanse. Who in the word actually receives the equivalent of methamphetamine (a street drug?)

This medication was probably created by the pharmaceutical companies to be abused by people under the radar (those who work for the companies, created the product, doctors themselves).

I don't think they ever actually give it out. I don't see why. Who's concern is it if someone wants to take a substance to change their feelings, emotions, motivations? This makes no sense.



I'm somewhat confused by your post. At first glance it looked like you were bashing Vyvanse.

Then at the end it seems as though you are upset and frustrated with the physicians for not giving it out b/c they shouldn't be concerned if someone wants to take it.

Just wondering what you were trying to get across in this post before I answer

ADHD0905
09-28-11, 08:53 PM
Get A GRIP!!

I take 140mg of Vyvanse daily.

I just turned 61yo on 9/12/11.

I'm a recovering addict,with one day at a time sobriety since 3/25/88.

All of my docs know I'm in recovery.

I only tried stimulants after Straterra almost killed me in 2005.

Prior to that, I took either Wellbutrin or Effexor.

Right now I'm taking Effexor with the Vyvanse.

For whatever reason, stimulants, of which I've been on several,

all make me tired & sleepy.

Vyvanse is the first pro drug; meaning it doesn't become a stimulant

until it metabolizes in your stomach,thus reducing the risk of abuse.

It doesn't say that it "can't" be abused, it's simply an attempt to reduce

the risk.

Most, if not all, insurance companies do not cover Vyvanse unless you've

been on at least two other ADHD related stimulants.

For me, it's the BEST medication I've ever been on.

Period.

I get all the "bells and whistles" of ADDERALL, without the side effects

of "feeling" it wear off, and the incredible mental fatigue.

Bottom line, is that this is a legitimate ADHD medication,which also

allows me to do my job everyday.

Without it, I couldn't continue to work.

Oh, and btw, I'm a Licensed Psychologist (with an MA) in MN.,with

a 27+ yr specialty outpatient practice in ADHD.

Along the way, and certainly with the help of the FORUM, I've managed

to develop some measure of expertise on the subject;none of which

helps me get the work done without my meds.

I wish you luck on your own issues, but the validity of Vyvanse as a

treatment for ADHD, is not some type of scam.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)


Congrats on your Sobriety!!!!

Dopamine
09-29-11, 04:29 AM
I take it...made the switch from Adderall a few months ago. The Adderall was working, although it felt edgy at times and seemed to cause some over-focusing. I read on this forum that Desoxyn was a bit smoother with fewer side effects. I mentioned it to my doctor, he had no problem with me giving it a trial. It turned out to be great...cleaner and smoother than Adderall, in fact, I didn't actually "feel" anything when taking it, although I was finally able to focus with more discretion. I'm actually a bit puzzled by all the strange hype this medication gets on this forum, commonly referred to a "last resort" or some obscure "end of the line" treatment that doctors run and hide from. Although he understands how all these stimulants differ slightly in their mechanism of action, my Dr. doesn't seem to place much emphasis on distinguishing them from one another except to underscore the fact that patients respond differently to medication (what works for some doesn't always work for others) and the objective is to find the best treatment for each individual.

I was previously taking Adderall IR 90mg/day. I now take Desoxyn 40mg/day. Works great, no side effects. In fact, I was actually surprised at how mild this medication is after all the fear mongering I read in some posts. I assume most of the folks you refer to who abuse "meth" are involved in the street varieties and not representative of members of this forum who carry a script for 5mg methamphetamine HCL tabs for ADHD.

sarahsweets
09-29-11, 06:46 AM
I think that because desoxyn is straight methamphetamine is why its viewed as a last resort. If you were to search in some of those drug forums you will see that "tweakers " will often seek out this drug to get high.

KronarTheBlack
09-29-11, 07:13 AM
I don't understand why anyone would try and get a prescription for ADHD drugs to get high. Firstly I can almost anywhere in the world get any drug I want in one day. It is so easy to get drugs these days because so many people are doing them! Why would I wasted the time and money to buy 1 gram of say Vynase for 200 bucks when I could buy 1 gram of speed for 20 bucks? I had to laugh the other month when my Pdoc said she thinks I could have an addictive personality. The question was unexpected so I didn't have a chance to think of a good answer at the time but I have one ready for next time.

whatlifeforme
09-30-11, 02:50 PM
@mcta: your post seems irrelevant.


my point is vyvanse is great; it's not abusable. my doctor took me off it. yet, there exists medication on the market that is equivalent of methamphetamine. it doesn't seem logically anyone would actually be able to receive this considering my experiences. that is my point. period. understand.

@adhd: i just answered your question.

Oxycodone
10-01-11, 11:30 AM
Doctors are very resilient to prescribe even vyvanse. Who in the word actually receives the equivalent of methamphetamine (a street drug?)

This medication was probably created by the pharmaceutical companies to be abused by people under the radar (those who work for the companies, created the product, doctors themselves).

I don't think they ever actually give it out. I don't see why. Who's concern is it if someone wants to take a substance to change their feelings, emotions, motivations? This makes no sense.

Anyone receiving ADD treatment. All ADD drugs have that effect, not only methamphetamine. You can't assume that everyone else would abuse the product just because you would. There's actually serious people who are not interested in recreational effects of drugs so even if they took heroin to treat pain, they would take it responsibly, as prescribed.

whatlifeforme
10-01-11, 12:50 PM
I am not interested in the recreation effects. The recreational effects of add medications are actually horrible.

I, as well, would like to improve my functioning. That is why, actually, I started back with strattera last year rather than requesting adderall. I felt it was a more stable - address the issue, rather than "chase a high," medication.

I wanted something to allow me to sit down on the weekend and to enjoy reading a good book without my mind wandering, lack of interest, other worries / thoughts on my mind. Adderall just seems to keep one from being lazy.

However my life has changed. No longer do I have the privilege to just lounge around and learn. It is survival time for me, and medication that makes getting up and going out on a cool crisp day invigorating should in no way be looked down on.

mctavish23
10-02-11, 11:45 PM
Okay,

Points well taken.

If I misread your remarks,then I apologize.

(I also like the fact that you're as blunt as I am,so kudos on that as well).

I can only hope this works out for you.

I had to make a chart for my doc highlighting the 39 days between appointments

as either "good" or "bad," by dividing the work days into mornings & afternoons be-

-fore he'd agree to increase my Adderall, by adding regular Adderall to the XR I was

taking.

It took him "seeing" the data before he realized that 22 "bad" days out of 39,with

6 of 6 randomly inserted paperwork impairments all falling on those same days,was

sufficient documentation to support the change.

If there's a way to do that in your case, then I hope you can do so;if possible.

Good Luck.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

tambourine-man
10-04-11, 04:04 PM
The stigma is ridiculous. Desoxyn is the only ADHD stimulant I have not tried.

In my personal experience, Adderall has the strongest recreational potential. Dexedrine has a far greater stigma attached to it, but the body buzz is minimal compared to Adderall.

If Desoxyn is, indeed, smoother than Dexedrine, the buzz would be nearly unnoticeable.

twinch42085
10-08-11, 10:30 PM
In my personal experience, Adderall has the strongest recreational potential.

I agree with you. Adderall is far more widely known when it is mentioned. Dexedrine far less, and Desoxyn; well, let me just say that my previous psychiatrist did not know what it was.

tambourine-man
10-09-11, 12:36 AM
I think that because desoxyn is straight methamphetamine is why its viewed as a last resort. If you were to search in some of those drug forums you will see that "tweakers " will often seek out this drug to get high.

I've actually never met a tweaker who knew what Desoxyn was. They wouldn't like it much if they did. Desoxyn just can't quite provide the high actual tweakers seek by injecting or inhaling crystal meth.

Most real tweakers wouldn't know a Desoxyn from a cup of coffee. They like Adderall ok, but wil eat many hundreds of milligrams at a time.

Desoxyn? Too obscure. Most recreational drug users wouldn't even know it was an amphetamine, let alone methamphetamine.

There's nothing especially frightening about Desoxyn - it's just another amphetamine.

relax21
10-09-11, 02:52 PM
Tambourine-man:
Don't understate Desoxyn's potential to be highly addictive, habitual, and abusable. It is methamphetamine no matter which way you cut it. Yes, if somebody more experienced wanted a much grander high from methamphetamine they would buy crystal meth off the streets and have a much easier time getting high and addicted on crystal meth. But Desoxyn, nonetheless, is extremely habit forming and can be easily abused to a limit. Just the same as Adderall IR or Dexedrine IR can be abused. However, with Desoxyn if someone were to abuse it they would get a much more potent, cleaner/smoother and longer-lasting high than if they were to abuse Adderall or Dexedrine.

Desoxyn should not be taken lightly, nor should any other amphetamine product marketed for ADHD for that matter. Desoxyn is used in rare circumstances because if prescribed to an (unknown) drug abuser it could be very damaging to that individual and the people around him/her. It could also lead an individual who's abusing or addicted to Desoxyn to seek out crystal methamphetamine and get deeper in a meth addiction.

Not to say it's not useful for people suffering with ADHD, but understand that methamphetamine in any form is highly addictive and abusable.

salleh
10-09-11, 05:58 PM
so, it meth, the prescription kind, more addictive than amphetamine?

relax21
10-10-11, 01:06 AM
so, is meth, the prescription kind, more addictive than amphetamine?

If abused, both amphetamine & methamphetamine are highly addictive molecules. But to answer your question, yes, methamphetamine (desoxyn) is widely considered more addictive than dextroamphetamine (dexedrine).

Methamphetamine (desoxyn) enters the brain much more rapidly than dextroamphetamine (dexedrine), methamphetamine also stays active in the brain longer than dextroamphetamine. When desoxyn or dexedrine are taken orally at low doses addiction is rarely a concern. However, if desoxyn or dexedrine are abused, either taken in higher doses or administered in any other form other than orally (ie. intranasal, intravenous, intramuscular, etc.) they both have high probabilities that the abuser will become addicted. However, due to desoxyn's rapid onset, potency and longer duration of effect, it is considered to be more addictive than amphetamine when abused in the same manners.

To add, I think it's safe to conclude that desoxyn is most likely more habit forming than dexedrine due to its high potential for abuse and its addictive qualities. Desoxyn is rarely prescribed (or known about) for a good reason, however, Desoxyn is a great medicine when used appropriately.

twinch42085
10-11-11, 03:04 PM
Methamphetamine (desoxyn) enters the brain much more rapidly than dextroamphetamine (dexedrine), methamphetamine also stays active in the brain longer than dextroamphetamine.

Does desoxyn have a greater neuro-toxic effect on the brain then other amphetamines?

Does it deplete the receptor sites of producing normal amounts of dopamine, serotonin etc.; over a long duration of time?

If so, can this effect occur at some point in the use of desoxyn, where the patient has not abused or become addicted to desoxyn, but has taken the desoxyn everyday as prescribed for a long duration of time ie. 10+ years?

Thank You

relax21
10-12-11, 12:18 AM
1.)"Does desoxyn have a greater neuro-toxic effect on the brain than other amphetamines?"

Yes, methamphetamine is more neurotoxic than amphetamine. Methamphetamine is 2-3 times more potent on the CNS than amphetamine is.

2.)"Does it deplete the receptor sites of producing normal amounts of dopamine, serotonin etc.; over a long duration of time?"

The extent of neurological damage depends on the route of administration, frequency of use, dosage, and duration of use. At low oral doses of therapeutic amphetamines or methamphetamine, depletion of neurotransmitters such as dopamine is highly unlikely. However, long term use of amphetamines is not recommended because amphetamines can be very habit forming and could cause neurological and behavioral issues depending on the individual, dose, and duration of use.

Be extremely vigilant if you use amphetamines or methamphetamine for many years. You are in uncharted territory and may want to rethink medication therapy if you need to increase your dose further. Long-term use of amphetamines or methamphetamine is not very well documented. But some studies have found that even at therapeutic doses of amphetamine, neurotoxicity poses concern.

3.)"If so, can this effect occur at some point in the use of desoxyn, where the patient has not abused or become addicted to desoxyn, but has taken the desoxyn everyday as prescribed for a long duration of time ie. 10+ years?"

Unfortunately, I cannot answer this question. There is not enough information on the subject of long term exposure to therapeutic methamphetamine or amphetamine. I've heard reports that children using stimulants everyday can use them effectively for 2 years. On the other hand, adults with ADHD tend to require slightly smaller doses of amphetamine or methylphenidate than children but are subject to tolerance issues more so than children.

However, if used for a long period of time, a patient may develop tolerance to desoxyn or dexedrine thus requiring the dose to be increased in order to maintain therapeutic levels they once experienced prior to tolerance. Tolerance after chronic amphetamine use is believed to be the result of decreases in postsynaptic receptor sensitivity, which leads to the decreased effectiveness of amphetamine.

In all, amphetamine neurotoxicity is typically a result of drug abuse and addiction, although, amphetamine neurotoxicity can possibly occur at therapeutic doses as well, but no where near as severe as a drug abuser.

Amphetamine neurotoxicity should not concern those treating ADHD with amphetamines. Amphetamines and methamphetamine have been deemed safe and effect first line treatments for ADHD. It's debatable whether there is any benefit from long term use of therapeutic doses of amphetamines.

tambourine-man
10-19-11, 03:22 AM
Tambourine-man:
Don't understate Desoxyn's potential to be highly addictive, habitual, and abusable. It is methamphetamine no matter which way you cut it. Yes, if somebody more experienced wanted a much grander high from methamphetamine they would buy crystal meth off the streets and have a much easier time getting high and addicted on crystal meth. But Desoxyn, nonetheless, is extremely habit forming and can be easily abused to a limit. Just the same as Adderall IR or Dexedrine IR can be abused. However, with Desoxyn if someone were to abuse it they would get a much more potent, cleaner/smoother and longer-lasting high than if they were to abuse Adderall or Dexedrine.

Desoxyn should not be taken lightly, nor should any other amphetamine product marketed for ADHD for that matter. Desoxyn is used in rare circumstances because if prescribed to an (unknown) drug abuser it could be very damaging to that individual and the people around him/her. It could also lead an individual who's abusing or addicted to Desoxyn to seek out crystal methamphetamine and get deeper in a meth addiction.

Not to say it's not useful for people suffering with ADHD, but understand that methamphetamine in any form is highly addictive and abusable.

I suspect that if you are inclined to abuse stimulants... you will. Dexedrine, Desoxyn, Adderall - they are ALL easily abused if you choose to do so and VERY addicting if you do.

I have not tried (pharmaceutical) methamphetamine but I suspect there is little about it which would make it more likely to be abused by someone who would not, otherwise, abuse Dexedrine.

I mean to say that I doubt someone who is using Dexedrine responsibly would switch to Desoxyn and suddenly become a raving speed freak.

I think it is sad that Desoxyn is not more readily available to those of us who have proven to be responsible users of stimulants. I'm very with satisfied with Dexedrine, though it would be nice if I could get by with dosing twice a day, instead of three times. I have heard Desoxyn has longer therapeutic action. That would be nice.

relax21
10-19-11, 10:37 PM
Nah, you won't become a "speed freak" if you use Desoxyn responsibly for ADHD. Addiction is rare, however Desoxyn and Dexedrine can be very habit-forming.

D-Methamphetamine HCl and D-Amphetamine Sulfate have always been in competition with each other since the 50's. It's like a Coca-Cola vs. Pepsi debate, some people prefer Coke while others prefer Pepsi. Desoxyn was advertised as more potent, longer lasting, and had less excitement when compared to other amphetamines, mainly Dexedrine and Benzedrine.

But, Dexedrine and Benzedrine were always far more popular pharmaceutical amphetamines. D-Methamphetamine was popular, don't get me wrong, but D,L-Amphetamine and D-Amphetamine had a much greater control of the stimulant market. Methedrine (Methamphetamine HCl ampoules) used medically for injections was really where Meth got a bad rap because people were injecting very high doses of Methedrine.

Is one amphetamine better than another?
That's up to the patient to decide, it varies.

Is methamphetamine a more potent CNS stimulant than dextroamphetamine?
Yes.

Is methamphetamine or dextroamphetamine better for ADHD?
That is an individual preference. But in general, dextroamphetamine is considered the best treatment for ADHD, at least in children.

When is methamphetamine typically used to treat patients with ADHD?
Because of methamphetamine's abuse potential it is usually prescribed when all other forms of treatment have been found ineffective.

tambourine-man
10-19-11, 11:39 PM
Relax21, do you think Desoxyn has received it's reputation as the holy grail of stimulants simply because it is so difficult to obtain?

If Dexedrine and Desoxyn were both obtained with equal ease, which do you think would prove to be the more popular treatment?

I would love to try Desoxyn, but I suspect I'm drawn by it's forbidden fruit appeal, rather than any genuine therapeutic superiority.

Most people are lucky to be scripted Dexedrine - I intend to leave well enough alone.

relax21
10-20-11, 06:03 PM
Do you think Desoxyn has received it's reputation as the holy grail of stimulants simply because it is so difficult to obtain?

That's a good question. In my opinion I would say yes, many people see Desoxyn as a forbidden fruit so they go out of their way to try to obtain it. Then when people finally get their hands on a prescription they tend to either over amplify how great the product is or they have such high expectations for Desoxyn that it disappoints. I think it works wonders for some people, but I wouldn't say it's the best ADHD treatment for everyone.

If Dexedrine and Desoxyn were both obtained with equal ease, which do you think would prove to be the more popular treatment?

That's hard to say, (I assume we're not equating how popular a drug would be based on how addictive or habit forming it is) they're both great treatment options for ADHD and everyones individual brain chemistry is different and unique. But I would say Dexedrine would most likely edge out Desoxyn as the more popular treatment option.

I think Dexedrine is better suited to treat a good amount of ADHD symptoms without many terrible side effects for the most part. It's hard to compare blow for blow because everyone reacts differently and they effect different parts of the brain and create slightly different yet similar therapeutic effects. (Even when comparing Adderall to Dexedrine to Ritalin there isn't one drug that is considered superior than the others for ADHD treatment). In my experience, I found Dexedrine to be more therapeutic than Desoxyn, but the side effects of Dexedrine were too much for me to handle.

Also, Dexedrine IR allows patients to be more flexible with their dosing (2-4 doses daily) while Desoxyn IR has less flexibility with dosing (1-2 doses daily). This is because Desoxyn stays active in the brain longer and thus causes insomnia or trouble sleeping in a lot of patients.

All stimulants will give a patient with ADHD similar therapeutic effects, but where the drugs mainly differentiate between each other are side effects, duration, and how an individual responds to the drug. A lot of it depends on how well a patient tolerates certain stimulants. If a patient has a lot of physical side effects on Ritalin, Adderall and Dexedrine and also isn't gaining any therapeutic value from these drugs then the next step would be Desoxyn. Desoxyn has less physical side effects when compared to Adderall or Dexedrine, but Desoxyn is not without side effects and can still have harsh side effects, none the less. Keep in mind, that Desoxyn is the only amphetamine that is still intended for short-term treatment of Obesity, and this is because it is a more potent appetite suppressant.

Unfortunately, Desoxyn isn't going to be welcomed as a main stream ADHD medication anytime soon and it's safe to bet it never will. It has always been considered and known to have more abuse potential and more addicting qualities than regular amphetamine due to Desoxyn's potency, longer duration of effect, and minimal side effects. Desoxyn doesn't have a good past reputation and it won't have a bright future, it's unfortunate for those of us that use our medications responsibly.

I think you might be interested in a new study that found that low oral doses of Methamphetamine HCl made users feel almost as cuddly as MDMA (Ecstasy). The study found that Methamphetamine HCl increased sociability and playfulness. Those effects were mainly dose related with low oral doses creating those effects. Desoxyn is not all bad, but it can be bad if it falls in the wrong hands. Desoxyn is a safe alternative for people with ADHD who use their medications responsibly and have found other stimulants ineffective or intolerable.

tambourine-man
10-21-11, 01:13 AM
I keep hearing that Desoxyn is smoother than Dexedrine. This does not appeal to me.

Adderall is too edgy. Vyvanse is too smooth. Dexedrine is just right.

I find that when a stimulant is too smooth it loses the motivating effect. Adderall was too motivating. I could never relax on it, which was great, but got annoying over time.

I don't think I would like something smoother than Dexedrine. I think I would fall asleep. Stimulants, when working properly, make me feel calm yet capable. Too much or too little makes me nervous or puts me to sleep.

relax21
10-21-11, 08:54 AM
Yeah, Desoxyn is much smoother than Dexedrine. It's sometimes too smooth and subtle that it's hardly noticeable. With Desoxyn I have to be self motivated to get anything accomplished, there's a hint of motivation but it's not anywhere near the motivation one might get from Adderall or even Dexedrine. Desoxyn I would say is like if you took Dexedrine and smeared its effects over a longer period of time and enhance the euphoric effect.

However, from what I've read, Dexedrine is one of the better if not best drugs used to treat ADHD with. I know Desoxyn is appealing because it's rarely ever prescribed and it's medicinal methamphetamine, but I would recommend that if Dexedrine is working well don't try to push your luck and attempt to obtain Desoxyn. Dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine are very potent CNS stimulants.

Due to it's potency, smooth effect, and lessened side effects Desoxyn is very habit forming (I would argue more so than Dexedrine), you don't want to risk becoming dependent on the strongest stimulant.

relax21
10-21-11, 01:05 PM
Tambourine-man:
Sorry, I didn't mean to portray Desoxyn as this scary "habit-forming", "forbidden" drug. Desoxyn is not scary, it's most likely not going make someone a habitual user or an addict, although I feel like I need to emphasize that the potential is definitely there, more so than other stimulants. And that's all I wanted to clarify on that matter. Just be careful when taking any of these stimulants for a very long period of time.

I don't think I would like something smoother than Dexedrine. I think I would fall asleep. Stimulants, when working properly, make me feel calm yet capable. Too much or too little makes me nervous or puts me to sleep.

This is true with me too. But with me decreasing my dose too much stimulates and awakens me and increasing my dose too much makes me tired. When I'm on the right dose it makes me calm and focused.

tambourine-man
10-21-11, 05:06 PM
I'm a rapid metabolizer, so the extra duration actually appeals to me a lot. Also, I like to be motivated but I don't like to feel medicated, hence the switch to Dexedrine.

I am scared of asking for Desoxyn though, and Dexedrine is working perfectly well.

relax21
10-21-11, 10:16 PM
The motivation that Adderall and Dexedrine provide is nice but I'm motivated on my own without the aid of drugs. One thing that bugged me about Adderall and Dexedrine is that I would love to get distracted listening to music, surfing the web, or playing video games on those drugs. But while on Desoxyn, I'd rather be reading, socializing, or improving myself. Desoxyn is smooth which allows me to focus on what I want to focus on, but it doesn't provide me with any boost of motivation.

My dosing schedule is: 1st dose at 7 AM, 2nd dose at 1 PM. The effects begin to wear off around 11 PM. I get about 16+ hours of coverage from 2 doses. A single dose lasts me 8-10 hours.

tambourine-man
10-22-11, 01:26 AM
The motivation that Adderall and Dexedrine provide is nice but I'm motivated on my own without the aid of drugs. One thing that bugged me about Adderall and Dexedrine is that I would love to get distracted listening to music, surfing the web, or playing video games on those drugs. But while on Desoxyn, I'd rather be reading, socializing, or improving myself. Desoxyn is smooth which allows me to focus on what I want to focus on, but it doesn't provide me with any boost of motivation.

My dosing schedule is: 1st dose at 7 AM, 2nd dose at 1 PM. The effects begin to wear off around 11 PM. I get about 16+ hours of coverage from 2 doses. A single dose lasts me 8-10 hours.

Are you kidding me?! I need three doses of Dexedrine to last me until eight!

Do you metabolize slowly?

Cheshire Cat
10-30-11, 12:31 AM
I take this. Works better than anything else I've tried so far. As for the addictive properties—I wouldn't know as I'm a-euphoric; my brain is incapable of processing such an affect or the sensations that lead up to it.

Kimmy1
10-30-11, 12:44 AM
Relax21, do you think Desoxyn has received it's reputation as the holy grail of stimulants simply because it is so difficult to obtain?

If Dexedrine and Desoxyn were both obtained with equal ease, which do you think would prove to be the more popular treatment?

I would love to try Desoxyn, but I suspect I'm drawn by it's forbidden fruit appeal, rather than any genuine therapeutic superiority.

Most people are lucky to be scripted Dexedrine - I intend to leave well enough alone.
Some here. I didn't even know one could get Desoxyn anymore. Sure, I'd love to try it but consider myself lucky as well to get any of the stimulant meds, especially with these annoying shortages.

tambourine-man
10-30-11, 10:03 PM
I take this. Works better than anything else I've tried so far. As for the addictive properties—I wouldn't know as I'm a-euphoric; my brain is incapable of processing such an affect or the sensations that lead up to it.

Wait, what?! You mean no matter how much Desoxyn you take you cannot reach euphoric effects? I don't understand this. Desoxyn causes euphoria by releasing dopamine, NE, and serotonin. That is ALSO how it achieves therapeutic effects at lower doses. How can you receive therapeutic benefits, yet be incapable of experiencing euphoria?

I'm not saying it is impossible, I just don't get it.

relax21
10-30-11, 10:50 PM
Euphoria is a side effect of many of these stimulants, more so with amphetamines, and even more so with methamphetamine. On the other hand, dysphoria is also a side effect as well. Either may occur.

Typically, a therapeutic dose is accompanied by a little bit of euphoria or a mood lift. But it's not always the case, and may occur less frequently or not at all in some individuals.

At the end of the day, euphoria is just another side-effect of amphetamines as is dry mouth, insomnia, headache, dizziness, decreased appetite, etc. etc. etc. So, euphoria shouldn't be considered the main therapeutic benefit of amphetamines and should not be chased by increasing the dose or abusing the drug. Although, euphoria isn't all bad and if you feel a hint of euphoria with your prescribed dose of amphetamines it can be therapeutic for ADHD.

Dysphoria that is persistent should be discussed with your doctor immediately. If euphoria is too intense or non-therapeutic try lowering the dose and discussing this side effect with your doctor.

tambourine-man
10-31-11, 12:43 AM
I always receive a mood boost from my meds. I consider the very slight euphoria to be one of the therapeutic benefits. It has never gone away. Maybe it is the magnesium chelate, but my meds feel just as strong as the day I started.

kayoss
11-01-11, 01:36 AM
I've been on Desoxyn for three years now, and it is undoubtedly the best ADD drug I have ever been on. It works and you don't know it's working. There's no crazy heart pounding buzz, no crash, no jitters. It just makes you normal and constant. It's a huge shame it's not tried out with more people. I'm very greatful to have a perscription.

Cheshire Cat
11-04-11, 01:22 AM
Wait, what?! You mean no matter how much Desoxyn you take you cannot reach euphoric effects? I don't understand this. Desoxyn causes euphoria by releasing dopamine, NE, and serotonin. That is ALSO how it achieves therapeutic effects at lower doses. How can you receive therapeutic benefits, yet be incapable of experiencing euphoria?

I'm not saying it is impossible, I just don't get it.

I don't understand why this is the case for me either; but it is. Be it alcohol, Desoxyn, hydrocodone--you name it. Not even in the so-called non-artificial, occasional inducers like sex, love, and athletic activities (e.g., runners high) have I ever experienced that affect. It sucks; but then, there are worse handicaps in the world.

karbouris
11-09-11, 01:35 AM
Does desoxyn make you apathtic?

tambourine-man
11-10-11, 12:37 AM
Does desoxyn make you apathtic?

I wish I had the balls to ask for it. I suspect I could get by on ten less mgs, and only two doses a day, instead of three. That sounds nice.

I hate the stupid stigmas.

jennyjay
11-15-11, 04:27 PM
Relax21, do you think Desoxyn has received it's reputation as the holy grail of stimulants simply because it is so difficult to obtain?

If Dexedrine and Desoxyn were both obtained with equal ease, which do you think would prove to be the more popular treatment?

I would love to try Desoxyn, but I suspect I'm drawn by it's forbidden fruit appeal, rather than any genuine therapeutic superiority.

Most people are lucky to be scripted Dexedrine - I intend to leave well enough alone.


Hmmm, that sounds odd to me. I asked my pdoc to switch from Adderall to Dexedrine Spansules and Dexedrine IR and he said no problem. I don't understand why it would be hard to obtain vs Adderall.

jennyjay
11-15-11, 04:30 PM
I wish I had the balls to ask for it. I suspect I could get by on ten less mgs, and only two doses a day, instead of three. That sounds nice.

I hate the stupid stigmas.


Desoxyn is an elusive drug. I have asked my pdoc about it a few times and while he has not out right said he would never RX it to me, he seems very hesitent to RX it...period. I am getting to a point where I think we might have to give it a go....Dex, Adderall....they just don't do much for me anymore.

tambourine-man
11-15-11, 07:22 PM
I'm curious about Desoxyn both for it's duration and the supposed comparative lack of PNS stimulation.

It seems that even Dexedrine, over time, becomes a little more edgy. I noticed this with Adderall and chose to make the switch to Dexedrine, which is much better.

Has anyone else noticed this subtle shift, when something about the med just changes and side-effects become more pronounced. Does this happen with Desoxyn as well, or is it as smooth as people say?

I'm very satisfied with Dexedrine, but am noticing a certain "sharpness" if that makes sense. It isn't enough to really bother me, but it wasn't there before.

relax21
11-15-11, 08:05 PM
Has anyone else noticed this subtle shift, when something about the med just changes and side-effects become more pronounced. Does this happen with Desoxyn as well, or is it as smooth as people say?

Same thing happens on Desoxyn. PNS side effects can sometimes begin to get stronger after awhile. I've noticed that Desoxyn's PNS effects feel more pronounced than Adderall or Dexedrine ever were. It all depends on the dose.

tambourine-man
11-15-11, 09:49 PM
Same thing happens on Desoxyn. PNS side effects can sometimes begin to get stronger after awhile. I've noticed that Desoxyn's PNS effects feel more pronounced than Adderall or Dexedrine ever were. It all depends on the dose.

Ooh, never mind on the Desoxyn then. Is there any way to reverse this "shift?"

relax21
11-15-11, 11:54 PM
Ooh, never mind on the Desoxyn then. Is there any way to reverse this "shift?"

I think the best options are to either lower the dose slightly or take a drug holiday. I've not tried raising my dose when this happens but I would assume it would make these effects worse.

tambourine-man
11-16-11, 02:03 AM
I think the best options are to either lower the dose slightly or take a drug holiday. I've not tried raising my dose when this happens but I would assume it would make these effects worse.

Yeah, I'm sure it would. Honestly, I was really only attracted to Desoxyn because I thought it would be completely smooth yet potent. Dexedrine is pretty dang smooth and effective, but shows a little edge every now and then. This seems to happen with all stimulants over time. Adderall started controlling me. Dexedrine has yet to do that, but it is a bit more jagged than it was at the start. Actually, I think the edginess has something to do with the 5mg Barr tablets. The 10mg ones seem quite a bit smoother.

If Desoxyn shows MORE PNS stimulation over time than others, I see no need to try it.

relax21
11-16-11, 04:35 PM
I was really only attracted to Desoxyn because I thought it would be completely smooth yet potent.

It is both smooth and potent. But it's far from perfect as are any of the other stimulant ADHD medication.

I just recently lowered my dose because the PNS effects were getting a bit much. Especially after my second dose. But for the most part Desoxyn does not effect the PNS as strongly as Dexedrine or Adderall would. Occasionally, I've found Desoxyn gives me high blood pressure and a racing heart, no different from any other amphetamine, just much more pronounced.

I feel like I'm the spokesperson for Desoxyn lol... I don't see many people that take Desoxyn writing much on this forum. I wonder why that is..

tambourine-man
11-16-11, 08:36 PM
It is both smooth and potent. But it's far from perfect as are any of the other stimulant ADHD medication.

I just recently lowered my dose because the PNS effects were getting a bit much. Especially after my second dose. But for the most part Desoxyn does not effect the PNS as strongly as Dexedrine or Adderall would. Occasionally, I've found Desoxyn gives me high blood pressure and a racing heart, no different from any other amphetamine, just much more pronounced.

I feel like I'm the spokesperson for Desoxyn lol... I don't see many people that take Desoxyn writing much on this forum. I wonder why that is..

Wait, so is it least edgy or not? If I like Dexedrine better than Adderall, will I like Desoxyn better than Dexedrine?

I'm looking for smooth and potent, yet subtle, with as little PNS as possible. Dexedrine comes the closest, but it is still too edgy at random times.

Also, I'd like to dose less often in lower amounts.

relax21
11-16-11, 11:36 PM
Wait, so is it least edgy or not? If I like Dexedrine better than Adderall, will I like Desoxyn better than Dexedrine?

I'm looking for smooth and potent, yet subtle, with as little PNS as possible. Dexedrine comes the closest, but it is still too edgy at random times.

Also, I'd like to dose less often in lower amounts.

Sorry... I made that sound confusing... Desoxyn is smoother and has far less PNS stimulation. You won't be disappointed in that aspect.

Just in my experience. I take my meds everyday and it got to a point where Desoxyn got too potent (both CNS stimulation and PNS stimulation) and I had to reduce my dose to get a beneficial effect. I was at 30 mg a day (for 6 months) and now I'm at 10 mg a day. I prefer 10 mg a day by far. Very potent drug.

tambourine-man
11-17-11, 12:39 AM
Sorry... I made that sound confusing... Desoxyn is smoother and has far less PNS stimulation. You won't be disappointed in that aspect.

Just in my experience. I take my meds everyday and it got to a point where Desoxyn got too potent (both CNS stimulation and PNS stimulation) and I had to reduce my dose to get a beneficial effect. I was at 30 mg a day (for 6 months) and now I'm at 10 mg a day. I prefer 10 mg a day by far. Very potent drug.

That's very interesting. I've noticed this phenomenon myself. Most everyone complains that the meds become weaker. I find that sometimes, for just a few days, they become quite strong, increasing my anxiety. They always level off, but it is strange.

Perhaps I could just lower the Dexedrine a bit when this happens. As fascinated as I am by Desoxyn, I think it might be more trouble than it is worth. I'm certain it would have to be special ordered and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable asking for it.

Also, the stigma is annoying. I wouldn't want to tell anyone that I take it, as I would likely have people both criticizing me and begging me for it.

Why, exactly, do you prefer it to Dexedrine? You seem very balanced and don't sing it's praises like many who have been lucky enough to get it. Is it worth the trouble? In all honesty?

relax21
11-20-11, 10:44 PM
Why, exactly, do you prefer it to Dexedrine? You seem very balanced and don't sing it's praises like many who have been lucky enough to get it. Is it worth the trouble? In all honesty?

Honestly, I don't prefer methamphetamine to dextroamphetamine, however I don't prefer dextroamphetamine to methamphetamine either. Both drugs work well, and are very similar to each other. They're both smooth and lack much of the PNS stimulation one might get from Ritalin or Adderall.

In my opinion, it's not worth the trouble to try to get a script of methamphetamine, especially if you're already prescribed dextroamphetamine. Unless, you have a seriously bad physical stimulating (ie. heart palps, high blood pressure, etc.) reaction to dextroamphetamine, I don't see the benefit in going through all the hoops to convince your doctor to prescribe such a rare medication.

Yes, methamphetamine is stronger than any other stimulant available but that type of strength isn't necessary for the majority of ADDers.