View Full Version : Strattera + Wellbutrin SR combo


Memofunk
09-30-11, 12:25 PM
Hi there!

I've been on Strattera for a couple of months, presently at 80mg once a day. Male 155 lbs (175 before Strattera). I'd say 80 mg is my cruising speed, so I intended to stay there.

Problems: my concentration is still pretty good, (ability to turn on the "tunnel" between a book and my eyes) but I find that for the past few weeks i've been incredibly depressed. Not the "I suck and am unhappy" kind of depressed, but more like lack of motivation, melancholy, I want to sit for an entire day kind of vegetativeness...

In the beginning, Strat made me do list of stuff to do, made me feel nervous, good kind of nervous. Now although I still get the "cuts the noise" part of the drug, regulates your sleep part, makes your focus/learning/executive abilities part better... I cannot get out of the house in less than 3 hours in the morning because I drag my feet around and just don't want to do anything.

Since Strat makes coke-trained monkeys not get as much enjoyment from coke, i'm thinking that it has the same effect on our ability to enjoy good things in life, like success. I'm thinking my body wants dopamine not only in the profrontal cortex but also in my reward center. Strattera doesn't provide that, but it does make me more "executively conscious".

SO: How about adding Wellbutrin? :) Wellbutrin inhibits CYP2D6 (what metabolizes Strattera) so Strattera would stay around longer (although when CYP2D6 is not available, another pathway is chosen). I would probably need to drop STrat to 60 or even 40 mg /day to be safe.

Wellbutrin at 2x150 mg SR per day... What do you think? What's your experience? Wellbutrin 2x150mg SR + 40/60 mg Strat?

Memofunk
09-30-11, 02:17 PM
no experience? ;p

Memofunk
10-07-11, 09:23 AM
So... talked to ze Docteur about it.

Lowering 80 mg of Strattera to 60 mg.
Putting me on 2 x 150 mg Wellbutrin per day (will start at 1x to see how it goes).
Will keep you posted.

425runner
10-09-11, 08:13 PM
I've never liked Strattera. Doesn't do anything for me other then making me lethargic. Why can't you take stimulants? Wellbutrin XL or SR 150 mg twice a day helps but not as powerfull as Adderall.

Memofunk
10-10-11, 09:48 AM
Well the doctor doesn't like amphetamines it seems. And in my case (ADD-PI) it seems that Strattera is doing a very good job. Ritalin wasn't. But Strattera makes me a bit depressed with time and lethargic, like you said. Bupropion is somewhat stimulant and has more of an "around the clock" approach vs stims which go in, then go out and you're back to square one.

Memofunk
10-10-11, 09:02 PM
Hmm... So first day on 60mg Strat and 150 mg SR wellbutrin... Felt slightly wired throughout the day. Hot as well (was already with just 80 mg of Strat). I got the same kind of headache ritalin gave me, so the dopamine inhibition seems to be there (guess). Felt like I got sucked into my work a lot more. I seem to be a little more forgetful...

As with every anti-d, I have to wait a few weeks, but even Strattera gave me effects on day 1 so...

Will keep you posted.

Memofunk
10-24-11, 04:51 PM
2 weeks later!

After due consideration, the whole Strattera + Wellbutrin thing = your liver will die seems to be unwarranted. As I stated before, Strattera is metabolized through another pathway when CYP3D6 is inhibited by Wellbutrin (which is metabolized by CYP3B6). Studies are contradictory to the extent of the inhibition (i've seen bot strong and weak inhibition so...)

I notice that not as much chemicals get out of my body because of ze pale (vs darker yellow before )color in the toilet every morning.

I notice as well that if I take my 150 mg Wellbutrin SR first, then Strattera (60mg), then Wellbutrin 150 mg 6-7-8 hours later, it works best. Strattera is cleared out of my body slower (that's what I feel anyway) and so it was a good idea to reduce the dose.

I know I mentionned sweating before, but seriously I feel hot, but when I touch myself i'm not. I don't sweat (cancels the Strattera on that part I guess, coolios:) ).

Wellbutrin gives me drive, motivation, whereas Strattera is really the one I need to "open up the brain-juice valves". Sexual side effects (bad blood circulation cuz of noradrenaline...) have also gone down, mainly because of the 80 mg to 60 mg drop. Wellbutrin does seem to boost my libido, but for a guy that's usually not really the problem. Women, noradrenaline helps you go ;) try it!

There were a few days where I skipped the 2nd dose of the day. So I don't think i'm at "steady state" yet, and definitely not at the 6 week "hurray" period. But i'm getting there.

No hives/skin reaction. The crazy dreams are back though, and they don't seem to be temporary. Very nice :)

Ciao!

Memofunk
10-28-11, 11:00 AM
I decided that because exams have just passed I could stop Strattera cold turkey, to see if Wellbutrin alone (been on it since the 10th Oct , on it alone since the 26th...) has any effect and if it does what the exact effect is. Since like the rest of anti-Depressants it should take 4-6 weeks, if I feel like S*** it could be a) Wellbutrin is not yet at it's peak effect b) my brain was used to A LOT of noradrenaline c) i'm back to my pre-strattera self in 3 days.

I have to say, i'm not too sure what comes from wellbutrin, what comes from my brain freaking out because there isn't as much noradrenaline in my brain anymore.

I'm REALLY easily annoyed, a little whining from my girlfriend makes me ARGGGhhh.

Insomnia. What the hell. Noradrenaline makes me sleep. I'm soooo ADD, now it's a certainty. Absolute. Strat + Wellb = best sleep i've ever had.

Getting up is absolute hell again. Strattera alone wasn't making me wake up in the morning anymore, neither does Wellbutrin. When you put the 2 together it prolonges Strattera's half life I guess cuz I get all the side effects of noradrenaline + the ability to wake up in 5 secs no matter what time it is.

Absolutely no executive functions and/or working memory. I can't stop myself from being unproductive or from being lazy. I forget why I came in a certain room, why I opened my computer.

What I know wellbutrin does:

no matter how tired I am, I can still do stuff.

I'm also more zoned-in into whatever i'm doing, Ritalin-like-feeling-of-Tunnel-vision.

I can now drink coffee (who would've thought), Strattera killed the punch of cafeine, Wellbutrin doesn't. Can't drink as much as before though...

I now experience no profuse sweating. I now have a sex life (that lasts more than 15 seconds). I now can exercise.


Will eventually try Strattera alone, at 60 mg instead of my previous attempt at 80mg. Half life is pretty short, so I should reach stable state in no time. I'll get a close to immediate answer as to what does what In my brain.

Memofunk
11-05-11, 09:53 PM
Hey there! After my little trial of Wellbutrin alone I re-added Strattera (60mg to 300 of Wellbutrin) because I was tired of not being there brain-wise. After three days i got a little panick attack ... A special one... A huge one.

I felt like gravity was bringing me forward. I was sitting at my desk, focused as hell, and It felt like my chair was tilted forward although it was straight as hell. Also, focusing on letters on a piece of paper made me feel suuuuper epic sick, computer screen same thing. I felt panicky as if I was about to have a seizure when sitting in front of my ps3. Went to bed, couldn't stand the freakyness. Slowed on the Wellbutrin for a day, never happened again...

Felt emotionnally screwed up since I upped the Wellbutrin to 300 mg. I felt like crying as soon as an argument started. Strattera's half life was significantly prolonged, so I got the side-effects x 2.

I also felt awkward socially. Drinking more than one glass of wine was a no no.

So like I planned, I stopped Wellbutrin monday one-shot cold turkey style (yusss I didn't give a s*** about all yer good advice ;p ). Didn't have any withdrawal symptoms because I found a good way to supplement my brain in brain chemicals.

Went running every day for 30 minutes before I took any Strat. Took 2 cups of Coffee every day before my jogging. Didn't get any headaches, o rangryness. I've been really ineffective, but that could be Straterra's whole "wait for me 4-6 weeks plz" thing starting all over again.


Sooo... Breakdown:

Strattera
If you're a girl, go for it, easier orgasms (good). If you're a guy, ish, easier orgasms (not good you selfish prick) and you pee pee is mellow until it leaves your body.
Memory is better
Control over what you really want to do/say/think but should'nt is significantly increased
You feel Stressed to do stuff (agressive feeling), although you aren't motivated (fun feeling) to do it.
It can replace coffee for intellectual wake-upping, (your body is tired but you're head is open for business) without adding the jitteriness that coffee causes. It's a little like green tea on that level.
If you can get yourself to do something productive, you might actually find that you are good at it, which is nice.

Wellbutrin
No sexual side effects whatsoever
Memory is shot, especially at 300mg/day, with a shotgun.
I didn't feel that "executive control" over what my automatic pilot wanted to do. Even Strattera was inactivated by wellbutrin on that level.
The agressive feeling kind of stayed, although Wellbutrin made me more happy about it I feel. Perhaps more motivated is the word. Not happy but fully aware that something was to be done about a task. Boring or not: didn't matter.
Replaces coffee for physical wake-upping. Strat + Well wakes me up like no other combo.
Makes me jittery. With coffee it was hell. 300 mg sometimes made me hyperactive (physically), which I normally don't have as a symptom.
Don't know if it was me, but felt I was stupid while on Wellbutrin alone. Strattera with it didn't seem to help as much.
Felt a Ritalin-like rush, which is mostly drive/energy, not so much brain ressources enhancement.
No matter if you're productive or not, you'll like what you're doing. That is the problem. Time doesn't matter. I don't blame myself for sucking at schoolwork on Wellbutrin.

Got off of it , now testing 60 mg of Strat. For now, side effects are SIGNIFICANTLY less intense then on 80 mg. As not-pronounced as with Wellbutrin+Strat. On the other hand, concentration sucks. Been on Strat alone since the 31 st.

ADD-PI, as always. 10% hyper only i'd say.

Memofunk
11-21-11, 11:21 AM
So yeah, tired of having no short term memory, and having started to feel too jittery to focus, even at 150 mg of WB I went back to Strattera only. I have focusing abilities, sure, but I'm really not into using them.

So far i've tried Strattera, ritalin, Strattera + wellbutrin, Wellbutrin alone,

I have an appointment with the doctor today, i'm going to ask for provigil / modafinil. I've read 2 studies, 1 that shows it to be as effective for adhd-c as amphetamines. The other study showed charts where you could clearly see a trend: inattentives and combined had significant improvements (50-60% of them) vs strictly hyper who were barely above placebo effect. I tried to find it again to post a link on here but it seems I can't...

Price for altertec (generic modafinil) in Montréal is 82$/60 pills @ 100 mg. I'm going to ask the doctor for 400 mg/day, start at 200 and adjust accordingly.

Unfortunately there is no modafinil forum here it seems...

Idyllic
12-03-11, 05:28 PM
I followed this thread with great interest. I really like your writing style and I appreciate the independent research you have done. At one time I was on Wellbutrin 150 mg twice a day. I went off it when I no longer needed it. Fast forward several months and I realized (or rather admitted) I had profound inattentive ADD.

I started the Strattera titration pack 6 days ago and I too am feeling the "lack of motivation, melancholy, I want to sit for an entire day kind of vegetativeness..." you mentioned in your first post.

I decided to take a Wellbutrin `150 mg and see how it goes. I have a doctor's appointment on Monday and plan to discuss all this with him. I have yet to see any benefit of the Strattera. I read it takes time and I really want to give it a chance to work despite the side effects.

Impetus
12-03-11, 10:55 PM
Presently I take adderall and wellbutrin for my ADHD-C. For some reason, the wellbutrin drastically improved how the adderall worked. So much so, it cut how much adderall I need by 2/3's.

I have a lot of anxiety, some natural and some from the adderall. That's managed with buspar. And I take zoloft for depression. Since strattera has some anti depressant qualities, maybe it could knock out the need for the zoloft and adderall. Reduce the need for buspar. Maybe I could ditch some of the blood pressure meds too....

Now I feel like I need to summarize:

Wellbutrin and adderall are for the ADHD.
Lisinopril is for the high blood pressure from the adderall, not all but some of it.
Buspar is for anxiety that's always there. (adderall lets me reel myself in about 60% of the time)
Zoloft for depression.

My intention isn't to hijack your thread, but this seemed like a good place for these thoughts.... (you know how it is, need to get them out of your head before you can decide if it makes any sense....)

From your understanding, do you think this is even plausible?

Memofunk
12-04-11, 02:13 PM
Back in the shack!

Glad to see there has been some participation here ;p

Thanks Idyllic for the compliments. The melancholy, which i'd describe as "being aware of how you feel about something, but feeling it as if it was someone else's feeling + not being empathetic with that person (not caring)", is the effect I get from 8 weeks of Stable Strattera.

So basically there is the noradrenergic effect I get right away: agression, wake up, serious seriousness, executive (planning) abilities.

Then there's the other part where your body adapts to the medication over 2 months, which is the reasons antidepressants take 6-8 weeks to work their magic.

That, to me, is emotional flatening to the max, no emotions, total apathy, melancholy, not sadness, just really not caring (not in a John Wayne kind of way, more like in a homeless-who-lost-everything-and-has-nothing-to-lose kind of way.). I can see how someone who does not make a difference between what is ME and what is the pill could feel suicidal on this medication.

Because i'm a freak, because my body is a clinical study, because I want to tweak to understand everything, I went off Strattera.

AGAIN?

yes, again. It wasn't doing anything anymore, or at least, not enough to justify sexual abstinence for 2-3 weeks without caring about it (male, pervert, 24...).

I went up to 120 mg a day, meh. Went to 140mg (Oh... ok, it's there). Went to 160 mg, THEN I noticed something.

It also took 3 days for it to stop influencing my body, and for my genitalia to triple in size (no joke).

I've given Wellbutrin another try. Started at 300 mg/day, will try 450 mg/ day for the heck of it. Am already on my second day at 450

I now need sex on a daily basis, like I used to unmedicated.

Somehow the memory loss is not as bad as before... My body reacted by creating more acetylcholine receptors maybe?

I'm still happy about sucking at school, why is definitely not Ritalinish or Stratterish... I really get the antidepressant effect now. I've been several weeks on it so no surprise.

Basically, Wellbutrin gives me emotions. I've never been extremely emotional. I've always felt that I was able to control my emotions perfectly. With Wellbutrin I'll go on bouts of Euphoria, where I laugh WAAAY too much, or kidd around way too much. I really feel immature. But at the same time, i'm fun to be around says the girlfriend.

On the other hand, a normal argument with the girlfriend brings up tears when i'm not even sad. WTF. The emotional lability seems to have diminished lately.

I'm annoyed, but i've always been annoyed. Now i'm annoyed + happy about it. The girlfriend has yet to write me a report on that.

Like Ritalin, Wellbutrin seems to enable me to STICK to something IF, and only IF, i'm able

1) to remember that I have to do it
2) to get motivated to do it
3) to not be too disturbed by noises and stuff

The way I rationnalise that (rationalize? I'm le french) is that Wellb is not a mood-bases antidepressant (SSRI) but a reward/willingness/euphoria type of Anti-D (Noradrenaline + dopamine).

So if I can get myself to start working, the antidepressant effect will keep me from feeling down/bored while i'm doing it. It will also enhance the pride I feel when I'm done with something or when I start a new project. Enthusiasm is significantly enhanced, and failure doesn't seem bad enough to stop me from trying.

For this pill to work, somewhat, you at least need to be able to remember that although you have a smile on your face, and playing Skyrim feels awesomer than ever before, you've still got stuff to do. Doing it will not make you unhappy, so might as well.

This is my "journal" for now. I'm seeing a psychiatrist soon, I'll get a recommandation. My doc #2 seems to hate amphetamines and doesn't no squat about modafinil. Asked him to look it up. Doc #1 wants a referal from a psychiatrist cuz he has no history in treating me for ADHD.

Will keep you posted.

Ciao !

Memofunk
12-04-11, 02:32 PM
I have a lot of anxiety, some natural and some from the adderall. That's managed with buspar. And I take zoloft for depression. Since strattera has some anti depressant qualities, maybe it could knock out the need for the zoloft and adderall. Reduce the need for buspar. Maybe I could ditch some of the blood pressure meds too....


My intention isn't to hijack your thread, but this seemed like a good place for these thoughts.... (you know how it is, need to get them out of your head before you can decide if it makes any sense....)

From your understanding, do you think this is even plausible?

Hmmm... I'm going to be frank. Adderall is a wonderful medication that comes in, deals with the problem of procrastination and attention, then leaves your body. If my doc was ok with giving it to me, I think that I could stop looking around for alternatives. He's got a "préjugé" against amphetamines, but Ritalin IR is fine... go figure!

Dexedrine would have less of a motivating kick in the a**, be less expensive. It doesn't seem to increase anxiety whatsoever. You could do the switch, start from scratch, see if you're depression is dealt with with just stimulants?

The other alternative (which I'd go for, with great regards for your opinion and your health) is that instead of taking an angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor, which basically kills "the messenger" that tells your veins to squeeze harder, i'd go for something that kills the signal coming from your brain, signal that has waaay broader implications.

Why is this of any importance for you? Something like guanfacine is cheap as hell (Tenex, don't get screwed by intuniv), and instead of working on an enzyme, I works by giving your brain the impression that on a constant basis you have enough noradrenaline (stimulation of alpha-2 receptors), and so your body slows down the release.

Since Adderall promotes release of NA, you'be using an anti-hypertensive drug to

1. deal with your high blood pressure

2. diminish the anxiety creating effects of NA on your body (same result as Strattera, different mechanism, BTW)

3. bring your Adderall somewhat closer to Dexedrine without switching all your meds, if it doesn't work (can switch back yourself, at home)

4: get rid of Buspar, because guanfacine is used often to deal with the anxiety-jittery creating effects of racemic (or almost) stimulants like Ritalin or Adderall. You'd be lowering your blood pressure and anxiety. One less medication! :D

5: people say that Tenex slows them down. Relaxe. Almost sedative. With Adderall though, you won't fall asleep that's for sure :P

6: depending on what kind of depression you have, I'd even suggests dropping Zoloft, slowly. 2 anti depressants that are fundamentally different + stimulants +anti anxiety + anti hypertensive... That's a lot!

In the end, you'd have 3 meds

Wellbutrin for depression
Adderall for ADHD, drive, energy
Tenex to get rid of high blood pressure, anxiety, jitteryness and hyperactivity.

If you're still depressed, up the Wellbutrin to 300 / 450, see what happens.
I don't like multiple targets / multiples drugs. If you've got brain-cooties, most of your problems have a pretty precise cause. Playing with every chemical in your head is ok, but all at the same time? Not so sure.

Hope I helped :) have a good one

aarondev
12-05-11, 03:13 AM
Firstly, thanks to the OP for chronicling your experiences. It was insightful and interesting. As well as spurring these other two people to post.


To answer the original inquiry: I take Aplenzin 174mg (Wellbutrin XL 150mg alternate) and Strattera - currently on 80. This is my 4th time with the latter and second time with the former. But I cannot relate on the emotionality experienced by the OP when increased to 300mg of the Wellbutrin. Personally, I found it dulling. As for Strattera - you increasing it a. so fast and b. so high (to 120/140/160) is useless and unheard of. There's maybe 3/500 posts I've read on here that say it impacts them in sustained way from the get-go. Every dose change returns side-effects and lowers positive effects. I've really noted this for myself at 80mg and am considering going back to 60. (23-year-old male).

But what I have to say is that going cold turkey on either of those medications isn't just bad from an 'immediate symptom' standpoint. Its also bad because as much as your research may suggest, you're not actually getting to see directly what is/isn't being effected in your brain. Simply put, that the medications effect you differently post cold-turkey drops is completely and totally unsurprising to me.

Secondly, please remember that across all medication types, the one consistent thing you'll find of people's experiences is that they vary with both the generic and the brand. And even between generic manufacturers. Personally, I couldn't handle Wellbutrin XL when I was on a certain generic because it caused massive anxiety. When I was on the brand, I was fine.

Thirdly, Caffeine + Strattera is well discussed on here to impact the Strattera's effects. Its not just about taking away its 'punch'; it can also worsen the side-effects of Strattera or even take away from Strattera's positive effects.

In addition, what are you saying about getting 'ripped off' by Intuniv? I assume you mean price wise? From my own experience with that drug, the other poster may want to talk to their doctor about the difference in therapeutic doses between Guanfacine and Intuniv. I've found Intuniv to be very similar in its effects to Strattera but it impacted within a week as oppose to a month. It helped a bit with focus and with socializing. Plus short-term memory. But it lacked the 'immediate awake' I get from Strattera.

Finally, what bothers me most about Memoryfunk's post is this underlying conceit that you know what you're doing. The drug manufacturers and best doctor's in the world on this stuff concede that they don't know. Psych drugs are truly in their infancy. The best way I've had it put to me is that you at most see the shadows cast on the wall by a flame; you don't see the flame itself. You cannot measure these chemicals in your brain so easily. So to talk about receptors or neurotransmitters are fine, but remember that that part is all HYPOTHETICAL. The part that is consistent for you is the symptom part. The part that you figure out through food intake and exercise, etc.

Overall, I've done the whole 'I know better than my doctor thing' and I don't think that anyone who isn't you can tell you what's best. But on the other hand - and maybe its just the way the OP wrote it out - but it sounds more like uneducated leaps instead of studied steps (e.g. how many times you go 'cold turkey).

Impetus
12-05-11, 07:12 AM
Hmmm... I'm going to be frank. Adderall is a wonderful medication that comes in, deals with the problem of procrastination and attention, then leaves your body. If my doc was ok with giving it to me, I think that I could stop looking around for alternatives. He's got a "préjugé" against amphetamines, but Ritalin IR is fine... go figure!

Dexedrine would have less of a motivating kick in the a**, be less expensive. It doesn't seem to increase anxiety whatsoever. You could do the switch, start from scratch, see if you're depression is dealt with with just stimulants?

The other alternative (which I'd go for, with great regards for your opinion and your health) is that instead of taking an angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor, which basically kills "the messenger" that tells your veins to squeeze harder, i'd go for something that kills the signal coming from your brain, signal that has waaay broader implications.

Why is this of any importance for you? Something like guanfacine is cheap as hell (Tenex, don't get screwed by intuniv), and instead of working on an enzyme, I works by giving your brain the impression that on a constant basis you have enough noradrenaline (stimulation of alpha-2 receptors), and so your body slows down the release.

Since Adderall promotes release of NA, you'be using an anti-hypertensive drug to

1. deal with your high blood pressure

2. diminish the anxiety creating effects of NA on your body (same result as Strattera, different mechanism, BTW)

3. bring your Adderall somewhat closer to Dexedrine without switching all your meds, if it doesn't work (can switch back yourself, at home)

4: get rid of Buspar, because guanfacine is used often to deal with the anxiety-jittery creating effects of racemic (or almost) stimulants like Ritalin or Adderall. You'd be lowering your blood pressure and anxiety. One less medication! :D

5: people say that Tenex slows them down. Relaxe. Almost sedative. With Adderall though, you won't fall asleep that's for sure :P

6: depending on what kind of depression you have, I'd even suggests dropping Zoloft, slowly. 2 anti depressants that are fundamentally different + stimulants +anti anxiety + anti hypertensive... That's a lot!

In the end, you'd have 3 meds

Wellbutrin for depression
Adderall for ADHD, drive, energy
Tenex to get rid of high blood pressure, anxiety, jitteryness and hyperactivity.

If you're still depressed, up the Wellbutrin to 300 / 450, see what happens.
I don't like multiple targets / multiples drugs. If you've got brain-cooties, most of your problems have a pretty precise cause. Playing with every chemical in your head is ok, but all at the same time? Not so sure.

Hope I helped :) have a good one

Thanks for your thoughts. Tenex is a great idea, I never even thought of it!

Memofunk
12-06-11, 09:01 AM
@Impetus: take everything I say with a grain of salt, as aarondev has emphasized (insisté?) we're all playing a guessing game, us and the knowing M.D. He mentionned Tenex being similar to Strattera "in feeling". I like the idea of a medication working like Strattera & not restricting blood flow in certain parts of my body...

@aarondev

hého! Thanks for the criticism ;p

120 is not unheard of at all. Many many many on this site take this high of a dose. If I construed a timeline of all my trials and errors, you'd see that 80 not working anymore happened after Wellb +Strat were combined, i.e: after my brain was soaked in Strattera 24/7 because Wellb inhibited CYP3D6. (My guess)

I take brand Strattera (haha, surprise) and brand WellB as well. Read so many posts about crapy bupropion that i never considered the generic. The pharmacist suggested CorePharma's Bupropion... if ever someone has something to say i'd be happy to hear it.

For Strattera + Caffeine, totally there with you: it's a nono. I like café though, taste wise. I also have always had huuuuuge problems getting up in the morning (girlfriend has to make an intervention every morning), so with no surprise am I going to say that 1 cup in the morning is an almost non-negociable minimum.

To address my concern (and yours) that it cancels out the effect, and that this may be (part) why i'm not getting the effects, I switched to Earl Grey Tea which I never tried. Loved it! My logic was that was seems to bother me with Strattera + coffee is the coffee jitters + coffee mini-anxiety + coffee mini racing thoughts... Probably because of additional norad release, why Strattera alone slows down. Tea has less caffeine, + GABA (slow down) intervening L-theanine.

I was at least partially right. It doesn't seem to kill the effect, and enhances the zen effect of Stratty.

For ripped off: i'm one of those guys that hate long-acting drugs for the principle that they're repackaging then switching everyone to the 400$/month medication. I'd rather be on dexedrine then Vyvanse, for example, and I requested Ritalin IR (4,75$/month, hahahahaha) instead of Concerta. That way, I don't pay much, and I control the "extended release" by cutting up my pills and going gradual.

I understand that Tenex doesn't wake you up: it's only (ahem, pertinent, not claiming anything) mechanism is stimulation of alpha2, so "enough norad here buddy" signal. Strattera works one step before, by actually "putting enough norad there" . Makes sense that you'd get a sleepy/no difference effect compared to a Stratty related insomniac effect.

And finally, thanks for the warning. I should've put it myself but you did it for me. Everything here is indeed hypothetical. The way I see it, ADHD is hypothetical, in fact. They can call it "Uppsala" in honor of la Suède, change the symptoms, it wouldn't matter.

The real name should be the cause: "chronic deficiency in transmission of the bla bla transmitter in the miaw miaw region of the brain". They don't, they hypothesize that because rats who have a chopped of brain part behave a certain way, and because they are normalized with Ritalin, that humans somehow have a "chopped off" brain part naturally and infer that Ritalin is good.

Not putting into question ADHD (everyone questions my belief here with the standard responses you all get). But let's say to me ADHD-PI, Depression, Asperger, Functional Autism, Anxiety related disorders, OCD, Panic attacks... They are all technically the same disease: neurotransmitters not being balanced, creating a human being that should go out there and die in the wild to be swept off the face of the earth by evolution (!).

What matters in the end is that I don't want to be that guy. And so far doctors have been serving my the standard "I'm a doctor, trust me I know" along with the "Ritalin doesn't satisfy you? Try Biphentin or Concerta. It's a totally different med. Oh wait, it's methylphenidate as well? Ah damn. " So yeah, in the guessing game, I do feel i'm the best.

I definitely think it's the way I write things :P I have communication problems. I am misunderstood when I talk, when I write. Think I should get an Aspie screening lol. (Almost non-lol actually...)

I also forgot to mention that my trial and error goes back almost a year. So the steps i've taken, the on and off hasn't been for 2 days then "awww, I want to complain about my medication". I've been on Strattera for 10/12 months of that year, so i've given it a fair shot. Bottom line is i'm slowly joining the "it's not worth it after weighing in the side effects compared to the benefits".

No Café, no sex life, no happyness, no drive, minimal impulse control? Meh.

Danke Schön for das reply

Impetus
12-06-11, 08:05 PM
I take everything with a grain of salt. Your explanation sorta helped get my own brain going in the right direction as far as understanding what does what.

Merci! (hey I remember some French)

keyanykey
11-05-13, 11:00 AM
This will be my first day on Wellbutrin 300 Xl and 40 mg Strattera combo
Wellbutrin at 8am Strattera at 10am, Cant wait to see if get more focused and stop the brain drifting more to come soon

The Binary Son
12-05-13, 06:36 PM
This thread is totally for me - thanks so much for starting this discussion.

To make my history short, I use to take ritalin for the last 5-6 years for my add-inattentive, but starting around 3 years (ish) in, I began overusing ritalin to help cope with what I now know to be a general anxiety disorder I also have had, in hindsight probably forever, and for the last few years went through that horrible cycle and not knowing what to do. After a, shall we say, ROUGH summer, I started seeing a psychiatrist and therapist in july and started taking strattera, then bupropion.

I've been on 80mgs of strattera and 300mgs bupropion (150 twice daily) for a few months now (I started off on half those amounts then moved up). Over the whole last 5-6 months, but certainly the last couple months as my burn-out from my job finally subsided and my motivation to move forward increased, while my anxiety is less and I'm able to do certain things without freaking out or thinking they were too hard, my progress seems to have stalled and I TOTALLY get the vegetative state thing, which has been VERY hard to get out of at all. I'm still doing it, and I'm getting fed up.

I tried 160mg strattera here and there over about a month, and stuff has improved. I tried it last week for a few days straight and this past tuesday I felt mentally "able" and "awake" for the first time since I got off ritalin but without the anxiety or the feeling that I needed to take the whole bottle of either medication over the course of the day. I don't want to get into bad habits again but whereas before I needed help with anxiety but the adhd was fine, now the anxiety is fine (or at least better) but the adhd sucks. My psychiatrist seems to think my inattentiveness may also be "mind-racing" from the anxiety disorder more so than the adhd, but either way I need to be able to organize my thoughts like I did on tuesday, and so I'm going to demand an increase finally in strattera.

I'm glad to see that others take more than 100mgs of strattera - while 160 may admittedly be too much for me, and I'll be patient if I know it's leading somewhere, going from 80 to 100 may not be enough.

Anyway, that's my story - I'm going to stop secretly messing with my dosages but be confident in asking for an increase in dose - I was afraid to outright say it before. I'm also going to knock off the caffeine - I did NOT know caffeine worsened strattera, and while I'm trying to drink less caffeine for my anxiety, I'm going to try harder knowing it may also be messing with my strattera abilities.

Speaking of which, are there other dietary tips (how long to wait after taking strattera/bupropion before eating, should I wait at all, what to eat to help absorption, etc?)? I asked my psychiatrist but she had nothing besides just eat well.

Thanks anyone/everyone for any advice and tips!

Indigo17
07-12-16, 04:56 PM
I am taking 300mg Wellbutrin in the mornings. (I havent tried 150mg twice daily.) I was prescribed Strattera 60mg in the past. I did notice subtle improvements in "executive function" but it did nothing for my depression/lack of motivation. Wellbutrin helps with motivation as well as depression. I prefer Wellbutrin over Strattera.

FocusPocus10
07-28-16, 11:24 PM
I found this thread amusing because most people say strattera does absolutely nothing for their focus, concentration, motivation, or anything at all. I have never tried it but I am pretty sure I would fall into the camp of getting nothing from it. @Memofunk you should try adderall if its legal in Canada. I think you will find it's in a different league in terms of the positives you claim to get from strattera and the whole 'not being able to sleep' is not a thing for people who take their ADD meds daily (everyone on this forum and most people in USA prescribed stimulants). Not sure why you guys think adderall is the devil but for those of you who have trouble with taking too many ritalins it could be because the half life is short, the crash comes in 1-3 hours (in my experience) causing you to want more so you can continue being productive, try vyvanse or adderall xr (controlled delivery mechanisms). If adderall and dex are illegal in Canada try metadate cr or focalin xr I think that will be better than trying to take extreme doses of NRI's trying to emulate the basic benefits of stimulants. Then again I am laughing out loud reading the magical effects NRI's seem to give some people so carry on experimenting and reporting if you want to take the hard road.

MrJohnSF
07-28-16, 11:30 PM
Well the doctor doesn't like amphetamines it seems. And in my case (ADD-PI) it seems that Strattera is doing a very good job. Ritalin wasn't. But Strattera makes me a bit depressed with time and lethargic, like you said. Bupropion is somewhat stimulant and has more of an "around the clock" approach vs stims which go in, then go out and you're back to square one.

You need to get a new doctor, he either doesn't understand ad/hd as the DSM V describes it or he thinks you have a mild version or not at all. Do your self a BIG favor and get properly diagnosed, ask him for it, if not then get a doctor who can. Then go from their.

I waited for 16+ years before forcing my doctors to give me a definitive diagnoses only then did they take the time to do the actual background and work required to diagnose AD/HD otherwise as a doctor it's scary to put people on stimulants.

nicholasjh1
08-26-16, 01:07 PM
Hi there!

I've been on Strattera for a couple of months, presently at 80mg once a day. Male 155 lbs (175 before Strattera). I'd say 80 mg is my cruising speed, so I intended to stay there.

Problems: my concentration is still pretty good, (ability to turn on the "tunnel" between a book and my eyes) but I find that for the past few weeks i've been incredibly depressed. Not the "I suck and am unhappy" kind of depressed, but more like lack of motivation, melancholy, I want to sit for an entire day kind of vegetativeness...

In the beginning, Strat made me do list of stuff to do, made me feel nervous, good kind of nervous. Now although I still get the "cuts the noise" part of the drug, regulates your sleep part, makes your focus/learning/executive abilities part better... I cannot get out of the house in less than 3 hours in the morning because I drag my feet around and just don't want to do anything.

Since Strat makes coke-trained monkeys not get as much enjoyment from coke, i'm thinking that it has the same effect on our ability to enjoy good things in life, like success. I'm thinking my body wants dopamine not only in the profrontal cortex but also in my reward center. Strattera doesn't provide that, but it does make me more "executively conscious".

SO: How about adding Wellbutrin? :) Wellbutrin inhibits CYP2D6 (what metabolizes Strattera) so Strattera would stay around longer (although when CYP2D6 is not available, another pathway is chosen). I would probably need to drop STrat to 60 or even 40 mg /day to be safe.

Wellbutrin at 2x150 mg SR per day... What do you think? What's your experience? Wellbutrin 2x150mg SR + 40/60 mg Strat?

Stattera was horrible for me... It ruined my sleep and as you describe I took me forever to get up in the morning... I'm sure it works for someone, but it was an absolute disaster for me... After I stopped taking it it actually took me several YEARS to start sleeping normally again... I know that sounds wild, but it's true.It seems that it semi-permently altered something about my brain chemistry.

nicholasjh1
08-26-16, 01:11 PM
"Thirdly, Caffeine + Strattera is well discussed on here to impact the Strattera's effects. Its not just about taking away its 'punch'; it can also worsen the side-effects of Strattera or even take away from Strattera's positive effects." Interesting! Maybe that's why it never did anything for me (other than ruining my sleep). Good to hear.