View Full Version : Is Bipolar common in ADHD?


PinkRoxy
10-21-11, 10:05 PM
I dont actually know if I have it but I do notice with my moods even when I am not PMSing I am fine and happy and then I can feel upset and cry over something. My moods are a little rollercoasterish if you know what I mean.

I dont know if I have it or not and am a bit worried to find out if I do but do you think its a common thing to have with ADHD?

I just thought I would ask because last year and earlier my moods were stable as lately they have been highish and lowish and sometimes stable. I dont really know what caused it though.

Abi
10-21-11, 10:13 PM
Wiki has said that the comorbidity could be anywhere between 3% and 40.

Its difficult because of HUGE overlap of symptoms.

IN my humble opinion, there is not much o. Just comorbiity lot of misdiagnosed dual dignoses.

I am Bipolar and suspected having ADHD (with or without bipolar) for the longest time, but I'm now conviced I DONT have it.

My 2 cents

selita
10-21-11, 11:29 PM
Seems so but maybe it's just symptoms overlap.

I gotta say, aspects of Bipolar II and Cyclothymia both sound very familiar to me. But I don't think my moods swing at random, nor do I think I'm ever all that extreme. Usually there's something pushing me in one direction or the other.

Redrightnow
10-22-11, 12:37 AM
Abi-- what do you mean-- you think you don't have bipolar or adhd?

Pink-- I don't know if it's really common but certainly would be one of the things co-morbid with adhd.

I have at times (and one pdoc wanted to treat me for "mood disorder") thought I have bipolar and/or ocd but I mostly think my emotional disregulation and obsessiveness are just parts of the long-untreated, undiagnosed adhd.

Abi
10-22-11, 04:36 AM
I'm rewriting my above post because it cam eout nonsensical the first time round:

Wiki has said that the comorbidity could be anywhere between 3% and 40.

Its difficult to evaluate because of HUGE overlap of symptoms between the 2 diagnoses.

IN my humble opinion, there is not much comorbidity, Just a lot oincorrect dual dignoses.

I am Bipolar and suspected having ADHD (with or without bipolar) for the longest time, but I'm now conviced I DONT have it.

My 2 cents

Yes RRN, I don't have a formal dx of ADHD and I don't think I have it either.

PinkRoxy
10-22-11, 07:46 PM
yeah I think my moods have a reason to them too, its just they they can change so quickly sometimes.

mctavish23
10-22-11, 07:56 PM
There's a well documented "One Way Comorbidity" between Bipolar Disorder

and ADHD :

Specifically, over 90+ % of children/adolescents with (authentic) Early Onset

(Pediatric) Bipolar Disorder, also have ADHD, while very few people with ADHD

have Bipolar Disorder;unless of course it also runs in the family.

The upcoming (2013) DSM-V will likely have a listing for Bipolar III,which is said

to be for (Meth)Amphetamine or Other Substance Abuse induced factors.

My references for the above "One Way Comorbidity" include Barbara Gellerman,MD,

and James Chandler, MD.

Excellent question.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Impetus
10-23-11, 12:22 AM
If memory serves correctly, the differences are mania and delusions of granduer.

You've always struck me as pretty forthright about yourself. Someone with delusions of granduer would say they danced with the New York Ballet or Climbed Mt Everest....

Mania?? Nope. I don't think you have bad days any worse than the rest of us....

ADHD can make us *seem* moody to other just because we can't conceal or emotions well. Annnd, it could somehow be related to the ping pong balls bouncing around in our heads like a Powerball Machine. :p

Abi
10-23-11, 12:33 AM
Impetus there is such a thing as hypomania where delusions are absent or not as grandiose.

People forget BIPOLAR is primarily a MOOD DISORDER -NOT- a thought disorder/ psychotic disorder, although SOME sufferers experience this.

I am Bipolar 2 (the milder variant). I dont suffer grandiose delusions or psychosis. I suffer "mild" delusions in my hypomanic phases, usually paranoid delusions about people hating me, which goes back to my other diagnosis -- Generalised Anxiety Disorder, and a general lack of self-confidence.

I have a history of executive dysfunction and mild impulse control dating back to age 5, but zero hyperactity, making me not a stereotypical (authentic as mctavish says, case)

As I stated above I have no ADHD diagnosis and believe this to be correct.

I do believe I have SOME not-otherwise-specified Exec Func Disorder besides Bipolar and GAD. I could have SCT without the ADHD (This is possible since SCT is to be classsified most likely as a separate condition from ADHD).

My bipolar onset was in early adulthood. No childhood history of mania or clinical dpression.

selita
10-23-11, 12:41 AM
I sometimes suffer from delusions of talent. Not sure what to make of that.

There's a well documented "One Way Comorbidity" between Bipolar Disorder and ADHD :

Specifically, over 90+ % of children/adolescents with (authentic) Early Onset (Pediatric) Bipolar Disorder, also have ADHD, while very few people with ADHD have Bipolar Disorder;unless of course it also runs in the family.

I almost said, "I think ADHD is common with Bipolar instead," but I couldn't remember the details. Thanks :)

PinkRoxy
10-23-11, 01:50 AM
thanks. Yeah I know I am not delusional at all its just a little mood rollercoaster and it gets worse come time to my menses but not so bad on other days.

I will chat to my psychologist about it when I go and them on Wednesday.

Old School MBD
10-23-11, 09:53 AM
My family doc explained that adhd and bi polar are "cousins" so I was recently re tested by a nero pycologist prior to going back on meds to be sure bi polar had not "popped up".

Main concern was that my mom was full blown bi polar.

mctavish23
10-23-11, 01:41 PM
There are five empirically supported characteristics which have

been found to distinguish between the two groups:

1) Elevated & expansive moods (the length of which determines the

type + with and w/o subsequent depression);

2) Racing thoughts/flight of ideas;

3)Grandiosity- for little kids that equates to extremely "bossy;"

4) A decreased need for sleep -getting by on just a few hrs and

and still waking up energized and;

5) hypersexual behavior- ranges from excessive touching/self-stimulation,

to blurting out shocking statements in public,etc.

The latter two have to most support in the literature.

I use the above symptoms for the diagnosis of 296.90 Mood Disorder NOS,

whenever I 'm not sure yet about Bipolar, or can't confirm it runs in the

family.

In the DSM V, it looks like it will be listed as something along the lines of

Dysregulation Disorder of Mood and Behavior.

There was just an article about the subject in the latest ADHD REPORT,but

I left it at the office.

However, several members here also get that, so if that's not the right name,

then I'm sure someone can provide the correct one.

Either way, it's still looking at what I refer to as Mood Disorder NOS for now.

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

zumba_chick
10-23-11, 02:06 PM
My moods are a little rollercoasterish if you know what I mean.

I dont know if I have it or not and am a bit worried to find out if I do but do you think its a common thing to have with ADHD?

I really don't know if it's common with ADHD or not. I ran across this video the other day and he explains the difference with respect to mood between ADD and bi-polar (about half way through). It cleared some things up for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cw8jHUkHiA

(Is this dude highly regarded as an ADHD researcher? I've been wanting to buy some books...)

Anyway, my Mom is bi-polar II. It is such a hard-core disorder, it was very difficult growing up, and there are still some pretty hard times. Right now I'm being evaluated, not diagnosed. I suffered anxiety (what I thought) for years, over the summer I was put on adderall and it was like a miracle. There has been a lot of discussion with my therapist about bi-polar. The main difference (for me) is that I haven't experienced depression. I've only experienced what could be manic, although I don't think of it as that extreme. Then again, I use my Mom as an example.

We have no other cases (that we know of) of ADHD or bi-polar in the family. Sometimes I wonder if I inherited part of her bi-polar and it manifested itself as what could be ADHD for me. -which I don't think makes much sense.:rolleyes: We do have one VERY similar characteristic - impulsiveness!

blgw99
10-23-11, 03:32 PM
One can have both. If you and/or a doctor thinks there are some mood issues, you could try some of the mood tracking sites available online. It does give good insight - if there is a definite and largely non-reactive pattern to the moods, then bipolar could be likely. However, there is also rapid cycling BP and the whole NOS thing. It is probably hard to pinpoint what is a reactive mood and what is just a trigger, but tracking can help with that also.

mctavish23
10-23-11, 04:08 PM
Yes, that "dude" is one of the best there is.

(And Yes again....you can have both).

Comorbid simply means co-occurring (or occurs simultaneously).

That's why,if I find out someone has Bipolar in their family/extended

families on either or both sides, then I know there's also a good

chance of ADHD as well.

In almost all cases, docs will treat the Bipolar as the primary problem,

which is the most common sense approach.

One of the obvious dangers is a stimulant (or an SSRI anti-depressant),

setting off manic or hypomanic episodes,which could prove lethal.

Hope that helps some more.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

zumba_chick
11-05-11, 10:39 PM
Yes, that "dude" is one of the best there is.

Hi! I just finished 1 Barkley book - the statistics got it me. :( The next book I am excited to read, is how to "take charge"..

That's why,if I find out someone has Bipolar in their family/extended

families on either or both sides, then I know there's also a good

chance of ADHD as well.

One of the obvious dangers is a stimulant (or an SSRI anti-depressant),

setting off manic or hypomanic episodes,which could prove lethal.

I have a question regarding this issue. I have been on anti-depressants for my entire adult life - for anxiety symptoms. I did obtain some relief from prozac, more so than other types of SSRIs (also tried Wellburtrin - didn't do much). I was always on very low doses of prozac (10 - 20mg). When I began taking the medication the dose was increased to around 40 or 50mg, - way too much, I would say it made me hyper. I did some reading and knew this was related to bi-polar.

I have been taking adderall since mid-summer. It has been such a relief, the biggest being with controlling impulses. I knew it was an issue, but never correlated it with an "impulse" problem. I thought I like to over indulge, have an addictive personality or something..

What do you think of this mctavish? :confused: Any ideas or thoughts? - much MUCH appreciated. Thank you! I have been in therapy since starting adderall and I have my first psychiatrist appt. in Dec.

billa138
11-05-11, 11:46 PM
I dont actually know if I have it but I do notice with my moods even when I am not PMSing I am fine and happy and then I can feel upset and cry over something. My moods are a little rollercoasterish if you know what I mean.

I dont know if I have it or not and am a bit worried to find out if I do but do you think its a common thing to have with ADHD?

I just thought I would ask because last year and earlier my moods were stable as lately they have been highish and lowish and sometimes stable. I dont really know what caused it though.


good question,

I was diagnosed with adhd when I was young. Ive had mood swings all my life but never anything to extreme. I know for sure that I suffer from depression. Ive been somewhat diagnpsed with bipolar about 10 yrs ago and they put me on lamictal which seems to help with depression. I always ask myself this question though. My adhd habits(forgetting things,bumping my arm/head on something etc) makes me very frustrated and puts me in a bad/angry mood which can put me into a depression. Im not sure if its bipolar or just being frustrated from my adhd tendencies? What triggers your mood swings?

VelvetTiger
11-06-11, 03:29 AM
I dont actually know if I have it but I do notice with my moods even when I am not PMSing I am fine and happy and then I can feel upset and cry over something. My moods are a little rollercoasterish if you know what I mean.

I dont know if I have it or not and am a bit worried to find out if I do but do you think its a common thing to have with ADHD?

I just thought I would ask because last year and earlier my moods were stable as lately they have been highish and lowish and sometimes stable. I dont really know what caused it though.

Standard disclaimer: I am not a doctor.

WebMD lists mood swings (http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/adhd-adults) as a very common symptom of ADHD in adults. And, ADDitude Magazine's profile on ADHD in women (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/740-2.html) shows what a mood swing might look like in a woman who has a lot of demands or deadlines to juggle (I've edited it so as not to violate copyright law):

Rachael Hall, a 26-year-old mother of three from Sandy, Utah, spent years struggling with anxiety and depression—and never knew why. Whenever anything went wrong in her life, she overreacted.

...One little thing would just blow out of proportion. And then I would start to feel guilty afterward, and the more guilt I felt, the more depressed I got."

...After the birth of her daughter, Hall began experiencing frequent outbursts of anger. "One second I would be fine, and the next second I'd be a raging banshee," she recalls.

Though I can't find the exact source, I know I've read multiple times that women's ADHD symptoms also worsen just prior to menstruation. Some women up their stims at that time, and others have a certain anti-depressant or even something like Midol that they take instead. Of course, you should only adjust medication under a doctor's care, but be aware that PMS-related symptoms are really, really common. I had PMS last week, and the literature is totally true. I couldn't focus at all, and my moods were all over the place. I actually spent a lot of last week alternating between getting upset and outraged at how my professional life had turned out, and sitting around, staring into space because I was too sad to get motivated. My cycle started Thursday night, and it was instant relief, no joke. In fact, it wasn't too different from taking a Ritalin for me.

Run all of this by your doctor, of course. But if you don't check out against the common symptoms of hypomania, it's quite likely that you don't have bipolar disorder – you're just experiencing some of the common symptoms of ADHD in women, which, owing to our fluctuating hormones, present differently than they do in men. ADHD is commonly misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder, though, especially in younger people. ADHD is also under-diagnosed or diagnosed late pretty frequently in women, especially women who have primarily hyperactive or combined types like me. My fiancee, I, and a younger friend of mine have all been misdiagnosed as bipolar when we were actually ADD or ADHD. And just as it's a horrible experience to be put on a stimulant or SSRI when you're really bipolar, it's an equally horrible experience to be on mood stabilizers when you really need a stimulant. I lost a lot of college to a bipolar 2 misdiagnosis and the wrong medication.

Mood charts are great, too. Maybe you'd want to work through one with your doctor? My current p-doc had me use one. It showed her pretty clearly that I don't have mood swings that are marked enough to warrant a mania or hypomania diagnosis. I instead have spikes and dips in anxiety that correlate pretty strongly with work-related stressors, and that anxiety manifests as a fluctuating mood. I express anxiety by getting frustrated or mad, or even crying sometimes. My mood chart was what led her to the panic disorder and eventually, ADHD diagnoses.

billa138
11-06-11, 01:49 PM
i got into an argument this morn over walking the dogs and it wasnt even a big deal. I was angry over something stupid. That might be bipolar. Getting angry and bent out of shape over something small.

gerwin
11-06-11, 02:02 PM
i have bipolar issues, yes

DarkShadow
11-07-11, 12:24 PM
My doctor diagnosed me as Bipolar II when I went in to talk to him about Anxiety and Depression. He said a number of ADHDers are Bipolar as well. I didn't like the idea of being Bipolar, and still haven't completely accepted the idea yet.

I'm about to start Abilify. That is supposed to stabilize my moods and make them less rollercoaster like. I'm not a woman, so I can't blame my swings on PMS. I used to believe they were symptoms of ADHD and years of low self confidence, self-loathing, and non-diagnosed ADHD. However, I can't deny the fact that I am a mooody person. I'm not manic like is typically thought with Bipolar disorder, but I do seem to fit hypomania.

though, to me hypomania sounds a whole lot like just having a good day.

Abi
11-14-11, 09:04 AM
Dark Shadow,

Euphoric hypomania is DANGEROUS.

Not to mention there is the dysphoric variant of hypomania which many of us bipolae-2's suffer from, and which your ignorant comments are triggering in me right now.

emploding
11-14-11, 06:19 PM
Not to mention there is the dysphoric variant of hypomania which many of us bipolae-2's suffer from, and which your ignorant comments are triggering in me right now.

My hypomania is horrible. Give me suicidal depression anyday, because hypomania makes me feel like I need to claw my eyes out due to sheer anxiety and hyper-vigilance and horriblness :o

entrepreneurKid
11-14-11, 06:54 PM
Check this out-

I'm like the opposite of a Depressed kinda guy.
One of my best friends is a pretty naturally depressed guy, since like 6th grade he's been that way. If you compare us- we're like Black & White.

He's all downer style.
And I"m more- Come one! Lets do this! Good mood type of guy right?

Well, after like 3.5 years of struggling with my ADD.
Cause I've been a business owner for 3.5 years, and that's when my ADD started to matter to me. Before I didn't care haha.

But yeah after like 3.5 years, I started to get these like sudden Bipolar'ish moments.

Like- I'll just suddenly realize, What the heck am I doing?
And just for a brief moment, feel like a quit doubtful thought. Or a quick sad thought. But I'll try & quickly overcome that.

And here- I think this had a lot to do with it!

1. Struggling with ADD for 3.5 years now
2. Lack of Omega 3's! Cause now I take them, and I feel happy all day! haha
3. Diet, sometimes if I don't eat- like skip breakfast. I'll definately feel that way! And/or if I eat crap, or don't eat right, or sleep right. I'll feel that way.

Best way to be is- Sleep 9 hours, eat good all day- that means Breakfast too! (Especially Breakfast.) Take Omega 3's. And I think a lot of time, lack of that- will lead to some depression sometimes.

emploding
11-14-11, 07:19 PM
But yeah after like 3.5 years, I started to get these like sudden Bipolar'ish moments.

Like- I'll just suddenly realize, What the heck am I doing?
And just for a brief moment, feel like a quit doubtful thought. Or a quick sad thought. But I'll try & quickly overcome that.


A sad thought does not consistute bipolar. That would be like someone saying "eep I had a racing thought, I must have ADD".

I'm glad eating right and taking vitamins has helped you though :)

nctcook
12-30-11, 08:15 PM
My psychiatrist (who is fairly prominent and very smart--which is to say, I find him reliable on these matters) tells me there is a high correlation between bipolar and ADD, although not the reverse. In other words, find someone who is bipolar and chances are they are also ADD; but having ADD doesn't predict the presences of mood disorders.

nctcook
12-30-11, 08:18 PM
This might be the wrong thread, but has anyone else noticed that we use the word "depressed" today to mean "unhappy"? Sometimes you are really unhappy because you are depressed; sometimes you are depressed; sometimes, though, you are unhappy but not actually depressed in a clinical sense. I think we should not be careless in the way we discuss these things. "Being depressed" suggests to me, "I have no control, better take a pill or just ride it out." Being unhappy comes with the burden of having to take action.

Now of course thinking about that burden depresses me... ;)

The wise Stoics of ancient Rome taught that some things are up to other and other things are not up to us. About those things not up to us we should try not to be too upset--there is no shame in being genuinely, cosmically powerless in certain situation. But of those things that are up to us, we can and should exert ourselves to steer them toward the decent goals we wish to achieve.

If we misidentify things in either category we are less likely to be happy. How bitter is it to realize you might have acted differently and made a better choice? What cold comfort in saying, well, I couldn't help it and didn't want it anyway (those grapes are sour!) unless it is the truth. Impossible things are impossible. I cannot decide to fly like Superman (although it is kinda cool as a thought) so I don't worry about it too much--that would be crazy. But doing just a little better at work, at home, despite my...challenges? That might not be impossible--just damned hard. Some days it is too hard, I understand. But it has been my experience that if you don't care even people who love you will stop caring. And they need evidence of my caring. My promises aren't enough. So...

Personally I try to pick one little domain and see what can be done there. ADD/Bipolar/Nuts/Lazy...Some of each, I suppose. I have a hard time figuring out what is up to me and what isn't, so I try to do what I can and forgive myself for (each new) f-up. But am I the only one who just wishes they could be living their life rather than worrying about what needs to happen before I get to live it? I am now middle aged...this is not a dress rehearsal.

Blueranne
12-30-11, 08:30 PM
This might be the wrong thread, but has anyone else noticed that we use the word "depressed" today to mean "unhappy"? Sometimes you are really unhappy because you are depressed; sometimes you are depressed; sometimes, though, you are unhappy but not actually depressed in a clinical sense. I think we shoudn't be too careless in the way we discuss these things. "Being depressed" suggests to me, "I have no control, better take a pill or just ride it out." Being unhappy comes with the burden of having to take action.

Now of course thinking about that burden depresses me... ;)
I don't know how anyone can make this assertion since we cant judge another persons emotions and their impact, unless you are a psychologist.

Rebelyell
12-30-11, 08:36 PM
I love hypomania beats being depressed,makes me feel like I can reach out an touch the sky untouchable and invincible,no sleep cant sit still talk a mile a minute its great.:)

Maverick420
12-30-11, 09:26 PM
I heard on scientific conferences that about 20% of all ADHD people have some form of bipolar disorder. Please notice that there are not only two forms accepted in the medical form and that there milder forms.

I think mood disorders should treated when needed. I do have Bipolar I disorder with manic episodes who can turn into psychosis.