I remember as a kid thinking that I never want to do drugs. I felt that It might effect my intelligence. In about 7th grade everyone else was getting drunk, smoking pot, whatever. At that time I wasn't making any friends and at the same time, I wasn't doing that well in school even though I knew that I was intelligent. So I guess I caved into peer pressure and at the same time I thought what difference does it make I'm not getting good grades anyway. I have been self medicating ever since. How much do medications for ADHD effect your desire to do drugs or drink? When and why did any of you guys start self medicating?

I started around age 11 after considerable family turmoil. I'm 40 now and have self medicated since then almost constantly. Frankly, being prescribed drugs has increased my interest in the whole thing as I was never very interested in stimulants but am more curious than ever about trying new drugs though I prettty much limited myself to pot & alcohol before. The typical ADHD meds did not do anything magic for me and I really wonder if that's 'cause I'm spoiled with all the self medication. I never gave a crap about damaging my intellect; peace of mind has always been much more critical. I've gone dry for months over the years and as I recall it's never been satisfying; always a nagging spaciness & lack of drive for life. At the same time I'm not pretending that self medicating has been a panacea but it's better than the alternative and also I'm certainly an addict at some level so it's not easy to go without. I will point out that I've not experienced any sort of serious withdrawal symptoms, just the same old nagging dissatisfaction and general weakness of will to even try life without. Having poor luck with prescribing doctors (I tend not to trust doctors anyways) I've gone on my own & self prescribed some meds & I'm happy they are not particularly rewarding at excessive doses so I've been relatively reasonable with the dosage. I'm stubborn & always insist on doing things my way so probably this is my only option & I will decide to do what I feel is best in my own good time & not listen to anyone's warnings or scoldings.

I agree with much of what Paul said until the point where I actully was prescribed and tried ADD medication in the correct amount for my paticular flavor of ADD.

I now have no desire to do anything , self prescribed or doctor prescribed.

This is because in my opinion of coarse, after I tasted the reality of "Linear Thinking",for a sustained period of time, and then I went back to being the way I was , a true ADDer without medication, I came to relize that in being ADD and enjoying it for what it is , I feel I am on a continual HIGH in life, without the use of any forign substance to make me feel good about myself.

Silly as it seems I know that if life starts to get me down all I have to do is fill myself with the proper medication again to once again feel the "Clarity of Thought" , that I am assuming that a poor "Linear Thinker" has to deal with every day of there life, to gain once again a true prespective of how "Lucky ", I am to be ADD and get to enjoy each day in a state of mind that many people in life never get to trully experence.

This is because in my opinion of coarse, after I tasted the reality of "Linear Thinking",for a sustained period of time, and then I went back to being the way I was , a true ADDer without medication, I came to relize that in being ADD and enjoying it for what it is , I feel I am on a continual HIGH in life, without the use of any forign substance to make me feel good about myself.

Silly as it seems I know that if life starts to get me down all I have to do is fill myself with the proper medication again to once again feel the "Clarity of Thought" , that I am assuming that a poor "Linear Thinker" has to deal with every day of there life, to gain once again a true prespective of how "Lucky ", I am to be ADD and get to enjoy each day in a state of mind that many people in life never get to trully experence.
I'm not sure what you are saying here exactly. The world consists of many personality types. You have probably heard of Myers-Briggs testing, no doubt. As a professionally tested INTP, I think in all directions. Linear thinking is not my specialty, anymore than say, lateral, spacial, abstract, ect....... abstract is probably more my 'thing':D

I fail to see where you are getting the idea that medication takes away your abilities to think in other ways other than linear. Depending on your personality, you can think in many ways. Meds or no meds. ADD or no ADD :)

~Viktoria
Oh, PS, Einstein is purported as an INTP. :)

I've never drank or used drugs......

this many sound weird but I use sugar and Carbs.

I'm sure jealous Garry. I tried Ritalin & Adderall without any magic lightbulb moment. I'm taking something similar now but frankly it's more for the mood brightening & motivation effect than increased focusing. Maybe there is some decrease of distraction... I'm trying to sort it all out & being more observant about my mood & habits. I've been keeping a detailed journal for months now trying to figure out what's going on in my head. It is interesting studying my mind again after some years of letting it slip.

I'm not sure what you are saying here exactly. The world consists of many personality types. You have probably heard of Myers-Briggs testing, no doubt. As a professionally tested INTP, I think in all directions. Linear thinking is not my specialty, anymore than say, lateral, spacial, abstract, ect....... abstract is probably more my 'thing':D

I fail to see where you are getting the idea that medication takes away your abilities to think in other ways other than linear. Depending on your personality, you can think in many ways. Meds or no meds. ADD or no ADD :)

~Viktoria
Oh, PS, Einstein is purported as an INTP. :)

First and formost RhapsodyInBlue, if I have offended you , or if you have taken offence to my referal to " Linear Thinkers" then I sincerly appologise as I mean no offence to anyone or any other personality type.

The phrase "Linear Thinker" is my pet name for the vast majority of the people I have known in my life , who live their life by the almighty clock.

The time piece controls the world as we all know, time is money.

So many production piece per hour

so many garbage pickups in a 10 hour run

so many miles in an hour as your paid by the mile

and so on

In My Opinion, Society in a whole (not everyone mind you ) is considered to be the norm or normal and anyone who falls outside of the box that has been created to justify normalisy, is labeled as something else.

Be it Blind or Deaf or schitsofrenic or having ADD.

You see
In My Opinion (for what it is worth)

I do not have a disease
I do not have ADD

I AM ADD

I am

ADDaptable
Directed
Determined

I fail to see where you are getting the idea that medication takes away your abilities to think in other ways other than linear. Depending on your personality, you can think in many ways. Meds or no meds. ADD or no ADD
Silly as it seems I know that if life starts to get me down all I have to do is fill myself with the proper medication again to once again feel the "Clarity of Thought" , that I am assuming that a poor "Linear Thinker" has to deal with every day of there life, to gain once again a true prespective of how "Lucky ", I am to be ADD and get to enjoy each day in a state of mind that many people in life never get to trully experence.

I don't believe I stated that it takes away my abillity to think in other ways ...

I said that proper medication gives me "Clarity of Thought" and the point I am trying to make is that I truly enjoy the "Randomness of Thought ", that not taking medication allows me to experence freely.

I am not making a personal attack on anybody else's "Right to Enjoy their own way of Thinking", but rather I am stating that after many years of self medicating and a little over a year of prescribed medication , that I have come to a plateau in life where I can say to myself , that I an very comfortable with myself and with my own version of normalisy or as Stabile so aptly put it, "I am very comfortable with my own reality", and that I no longer need drugs or stimulkats to achive it.


I hope this clarify's the post and I appoligize for my inabillity to use words in a manner that is easy for all to unbderstand.

Garry, did you give up your ADD meds completely or just saying you only take them as needed to survive in normalworld?

Viktoria, what makes you so certain you are neurotypical and not ADHD? I'm asking sincerely, I'm curious what you see that makes the distinction.

Not completly Paul

I still have my prescription and I carry them with me at all times.

I only take them if and when I

Feel the foggy brain settling in ...

And if what I am doing or going to be doing in the next 5 -6 hours warrents having Clarity of Thought.....

Being a garbage truck driver and not having to work to a "Hectic Time Scheduale" takes away a lot of stress in my life so it makes it a lot eaiser to do

First and formost RhapsodyInBlue, if I have offended you , or if you have taken offence to my referal to " Linear Thinkers" then I sincerly appologise as I mean no offence to anyone or any other personality type.

The phrase "Linear Thinker" is my pet name for the vast majority of the people I have known in my life , who live their life by the almighty clock.

The time piece controls the world as we all know, time is money.

So many production piece per hour

so many garbage pickups in a 10 hour run

so many miles in an hour as your paid by the mile

and so on

In My Opinion, Society in a whole (not everyone mind you ) is considered to be the norm or normal and anyone who falls outside of the box that has been created to justify normalisy, is labeled as something else.

Be it Blind or Deaf or schitsofrenic or having ADD.

You see
In My Opinion (for what it is worth)

I do not have a disease
I do not have ADD

I AM ADD

I am

ADDaptable
Directed
Determined


I don't believe I stated that it takes away my abillity to think in other ways ...

I said that proper medication gives me "Clarity of Thought" and the point I am trying to make is that I truly enjoy the "Randomness of Thought ", that not taking medication allows me to experence freely.

I am not making a personal attack on anybody else's "Right to Enjoy their own way of Thinking", but rather I am stating that after many years of self medicating and a little over a year of prescribed medication , that I have come to a plateau in life where I can say to myself , that I an very comfortable with myself and with my own version of normalisy or as Stabile so aptly put it, "I am very comfortable with my own reality", and that I no longer need drugs or stimulkats to achive it.


I hope this clarify's the post and I appoligize for my inabillity to use words in a manner that is easy for all to unbderstand.
Garry, no, you didn't offend me in the least. I have just read it many times on the forum about non add people being linear thinkers. The way you describe linear thinking is not how I thought. In fact, I can relate to much of what you say.:)

To be comfortable in your own reality is a brilliant way of describing a life achievement for all of us. If that is where you are, then you are probably way ahead of many others.

I find people that live by the clock to be dull, boring, uninteresting, and usually I don't bother with them other than to be mere polite. That doesn't sound particularly nice; it's just honest.

There are times I need to go by the clock; I'm not always good at it, but I 'can' do it if I have to, as I am sure you can too.
As for randomness in thought, I can relate to your liking this method of thinking. It is far more open, and leads to greater exploration of things; including our own thought processes. To me, this is more abstract type thinking. :)

I want to thank you for this post. It clarified a lot that I have read around here, and I hope I didn't offend you. No offense intended. I suppose I am curious....often gets me in trouble;)

Thank You :)
~Viktoria

Viktoria, what makes you so certain you are neurotypical and not ADHD? I'm asking sincerely, I'm curious what you see that makes the distinction.
UhOh:eek: ! Seriously, Paul? Nothing, Nada. I am not certain I am so neurotypical at all. I will always question this. Andrei's Doctor tends to think that I DID have ADD and had to learn to deal with it at an extremely young age which enabled me to develop skills for mere survival, which I later put to use in an extreme hyperfocused manner. Much like cognitive behavior therapy. I am diagnosed with PTSD, but no diagnosis was ever made on ADHD. I would never be the "H" type....far too dreamy.

Am I convinced I do not have ADD? No :-) I am highly organized, highly motivated [most of the time], but no where near perfectionist standard. I do not expect perfection of anyone, but tend to within myself. I never succeed<G>

If I look back I see a pattern of skills learnt and dropped....psychology, journalism, ......these were dropped for music; something I hyperfocused on for many years and still do. Interests are fine arts, writing, painting, soft pastels, drawing, oil painting, and now graphic design...Photoshop/Illustrator. Oh, lots more I get up to on the PC as well. :D

So, looking at that, I would have to be nuts not to see a pattern consistent with ADD temporal type. That's what an online test keeps telling me:D

I can procrastinate as well as Andrei:D But I can also put my head down and do tasteless chores; hating every minute of it, and yet with a determination that I truly believe anyone can utilize.

If I were to be a Doctor in Psych, I would diagnose me as ADD.

The clock watchers would never be ADD.

Please tell me if I sound ADD or non ADD to you? Andrei thinks I am, so do I. Thank you for asking! ;)
~Viktoria

OK, that's fair. I'd say officially you don't have ADD if you are able to cope and do tasteless chores and are highly organized without being obsessive. Being motivated is not un-ADD, it's being unable to put that motivation to work that makes it ADD. Part of the official criteria is that it be so severe as to interfere with normal functioning. Coping skills can be developed which effectively cure the condition and that's particularly common for women who don't have it as easy as men in life and are not allowed to be lazy. The pattern for ADD women is to cope by working extremely hard and come out exhausted & end up with a diagnosis of depression initially.

I ask because you sound a lot like me & I'm still troubled by whether I meet the criteria. The main thing that makes me uncertain is I don't really have trouble concentrating, I just prefer to wander in my thoughts. As you say, I'm curious & that gets me into trouble. I just can't do things the expected way I'm driven to find another way & that interferes with my life a lot. It means I have an awfully tough time holding a regular job, though I've done it for as long as 5 years I eventually got fired. So I'm trying to make my own career that suits my curiosity. It seems you have succeeded in finding a life that is interesting enough that the curiosity doesn't mess up your life so you can function. That's what I want to do then I'll be cured.

Paul, you sound just like me, or I sound just like you!!! Although I can do the tasteless chores, Andrei's Doc still says it was a matter of survival for me. It's in the PTSD section if you read it. I don't want to repeat it here ....not pleasant reading material. If I hadn't learnt these skills by my own form of therapy, I could possibly have been a street kid and homeless.

I wander in my thoughts, and as for my work ;) I can get out of that, and have done on many an ocassion without a blink of an eye. So yes, it has affected my work. I did what you are trying to do now......make your own career that suits your curiosity, then it cannot interfer with your life too much.

I still think I may be ADD. I seem to relate too much to others here in some way, and in others I don't. Then again, there are degrees of ADD......so I have been told.

It's the hyperfocus that is my major symptom! It's bad!

I don't think if I had ADD I would say 'cured', more like 'I'm in control'.....well, most of the time!!!

If I have it, I have it, if I don't, I don't. Either way, I have learned to cope; albeit the hard way.

As for my motivation......only when it's something I really want to do.

I can see where you question your diagnosis, and I question my non diagnosis. We sound very similar.:)
~Viktoria

I have always had the feeling that I want an escape from boredom. That is part of the reason I self medicate. I also want to be able to fit in. My style of conversation as many of you may experience, sometimes makes a non-adder feel uncomfortable. This feeling that I am making others feel uncomfortable is another thing I feel I want to escape from.
I tried Adderall from a friend and it made my head feel clearer than ever. I actually felt a feeling of motivation and focus that I cannot remember ever having.It was if a cloud was lifted. This is why I think that once I get prescribed the add medicine I need , I will no longer look to drugs or alcohol to escape. I will be able to enjoy life for what it is. Any comments or advice?

Lets discuss the Akronym ADD

ADD stands for ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER in the "Linear World"

It is a label that is given to something that is different from what society considers to be the norm

We here are a very diverse group of people who all seem to fall into the area that "THEY" (They meaning society) would like like to Label as we are all different than the Norm.

Id would be willing to bet that there aren't 2 of us here who have the exact same symptoms

Id be willing to bet that some of us aren't nearly as affected by what society classes as ADD as others that are here.

So to get to the point

What is ADD

Are we a group of people who think a little different than the norm of society and are now through the advent of the Internet now staring to stand together as a community and saying that we are creating our own Normalisy.

(I will finish this later -- my wife just called me to do the dishes -

yes dear I am coming right now master

just let me finish this posssssssssssss..................

Im Back

dishes are done

Were was I

Are any of us any more ADD than the rest of the world except in the fact that we have shortcomings in many places where we try to fit into the Linear Society.....

What if I could put the Linear society into one of my Brain Storming Episodes.......

Would they be able to keep up to me or would they be running to find support somewhere because the couldn't cope with my irational thinking............


It all boils down to money........

we all need it so we have to do something to get it and MOST of the somethings are controled by The Linear Thinking Society

But as we grow stonger and more united

and it shall be a long and weary road

and many of us,` if not all of us, shall not see the end of the tunnel

But our children shall.........................

For they shall learn from our pain, our sorrow and our mistakes ........


Remember not that many years ago the racisum towards people, becuse they are black

Granted it is still out there but look at how many Black people are now in positions of Respect and or Power

I am obviously on a roll and rambling so maybee I'd better go for a cigarette and mellow


AS MY DARLING DAUGHTER TELLS ME oh so often

Gear Down, Big Rig

I have always had the feeling that I want an escape from boredom. That is part of the reason I self medicate. I also want to be able to fit in. My style of conversation as many of you may experience, sometimes makes a non-adder feel uncomfortable. This feeling that I am making others feel uncomfortable is another thing I feel I want to escape from.
I tried Adderall from a friend and it made my head feel clearer than ever. I actually felt a feeling of motivation and focus that I cannot remember ever having.It was if a cloud was lifted. This is why I think that once I get prescribed the add medicine I need , I will no longer look to drugs or alcohol to escape. I will be able to enjoy life for what it is. Any comments or advice?

I have had 3 non medicated ADD friends, unknown to me of coarse, sneak into my Dexadrine Stash and use it in a terrable manner for the use of recreation , and when they were done with their recreation all three couldn't believe how clear there thinking process had been even though they had done there very best to cloud it out with large quanitys if smoke.

I've never drank or used drugs......

this many sound weird but I use sugar and Carbs.
after i quit the drugs & found help for my drinking-stopped drinking
my sugar & carb intake increased a BUNCH!!!
nope, its not wierd cause im told that alcohol turns into sugar in our bodies.
sugar & carbs (ice cream, cookies, chips, etc) doesnt create an escape per se
for me but its more a "fidgit" thing. something to occupy my time, hands, the committe.
according to all the empty containers around here i got a lot of time to kill :D :o. oh.

I've used caffeine since hmm... I guess college was when I started drinking large quantities.

This issue of where being neurologically different ends and ADD begins is important. Paul says "you don't have ADD if you are able to cope and do tasteless chores and are highly organized without being obsessive." This presents an interesting ADD construct. I don't know if this is a DSM-IV factor or simply ADD wisdom. It seems accurate regardless.

Would it then be fair to say that a ADDer who can "control" her symptoms with an evolved survival instinct or other such mechanism is therefore not clinically ADD? If so, then ADD is a condition whose diagnosis relies on a person's inability to handle to symptoms. Under this construct, two people with "identical" neurological symptoms (lets say twins) could be diagnosed differently. The one who overcomes it is neurologically different or just "normal," while the other is the proud owner of the ADD label.

I now contemplate how many people who "overcome" ADD without any of the usual treatments or support have actually suffered more for not having the dx. Paul, you make a compelling point that the "pattern for ADD women is to cope by working extremely hard and come out exhausted & end up with a diagnosis of depression initially." No doubt this happens to men as well.
GirlDriver

Yes I based that comment on my understanding of the DSM & interpretations I've read. If you can manage life without major impairments, you don't qualify for an ADHD diagnosis. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't benefit from medication or treatment but it's not good enough to get prescribed controlled narcotics (grin). In my mind it's a continuum and lots of people have some degree of ADHD, at least half the population has it a little bit.

For the person who has managed to cope, it may come at a price. That could be severe stress & having to forego a social life in order to keep their job or it may blow out in an episode of depression or panick attacks. The breaking point in my case resembles a mid-life crisis. By this I mean it's an awakening to the fact that trying to lead a normal life is just not acceptable for me. I could do it theoritically, and I did for 40 years (sort of) but I'm not able any more. It's been sort of a slow motion nervous breakdown over the past several years. And, here I am laying helpless like a baby again trying to learn how to live my life. It feels more right though than the first time around.

Excess caffeine, like Exeter said. I still do it. It works.