View Full Version : The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal


tambourine-man
11-23-11, 05:57 PM
Well, I just took my first dose. I'm starting low because I'm inexperienced with Desoxyn. My GP gave me the script because I couldn't get in to see my p-doc. He knew what it was and had no problem prescribing it to me. It probably helped that I brought in information and am very knowledgable.

This stuff comes in a sealed bottle. The pharmacist wrote "METH" on the lid with a sharpie. Too funny!

I will let you guys know what I think. I'm a bit irritated because the Dexedrine was working well, but hopefully this will be satisfactory.

The pharmacy actually had it in stock! It seems the shortages have resulted in numerous patients exploring other options. If this truly is all that and a bag of chips, I will stick with it. However, it is far more expensive than the Dexedrine, so I will be switching back at soonest available opportunity if I'm not terribly impressed.

I had the doctor prescribe 100 tablets, enough for 25mg a day (15 less than my daily Dexedrine dosage) but the doctor said I could play with the dose if it wasn't strong enough. I will be taking 15mg in the morning and 10mg in the evening. I am hoping the longer duration will mean I will only have to dose twice a day.

I will post an update shortly.

tambourine-man
11-23-11, 06:59 PM
Well, I think it has taken full effect. I'm not sure. It is very subtle and smooth. Also, it is extremely relaxing. I feel like I've just finished a marathon night in the sack.

It is not very physically energizing, but really does seem to be without PNS stimulation. I'm sitting here watching a movie and have no desire to get up and find something to do. Adderall is impossible to relax on. Dexedrine is easier, but still a bit forceful. On this Desoxyn (btw, I took 10mg) I feel... normal. Anyway, I think this is what normal feels like. I certainly don't feel medicated.

I still think Adderall is more recreational, but I guess I imagine an amphetamine high to be a very physical experience. Desoxyn seems entirely mental.

It is too early to tell for sure, but I think I like it pretty well. It certainly has an greater axiolytic effect. My anxiety has increased recently. I'm autistic and have bad meltdowns. This forced switch to Desoxyn may be just what I needed.

tambourine-man
11-23-11, 09:13 PM
Ok, the effects are still at their peak. I will not know how I feel about Desoxyn until I have had several days to get adjusted to it.

However, I will go ahead and say that the extreme stigma is, well, very silly. This is by far the most subtle stimulant I have ever taken. It lacks every quality typically associated with "speed." It almost feels like I took a dose of Valium with my Dexedrine.

I'm not complaining. I've come to dislike feeling medicated. If I was inclined to get high, my first choice would be Barr Adderall IR. When I think of an amphetamine high, I think of intense euphoria, energy, waves of physical pleasure (those Adderall adrenalin tingles), and an uncomfortable rebound, characterized by depression, anxiety, paranoia, fatigue, and painful muscle tension.

Desoxyn does not only seem to be less peripherally stimulating, it does not appear to stimulate the PNS at all. My body is very relaxed, and I now realize that I was experiencing considerable jitters and muscle tension on Dexedrine, though not nearly as much as I was on Adderall.

I'm not saying Desoxyn is less potent than Dexedrine, but rather that it is a different kind of potent. If you like that first, electric wave of Adderall, a comparative dose of Desoxyn will leave you hanging. I did not feel my dose "come on" at all. Neither have I noticed any significant points of decline.

Desoxyn is what Vyvanse claims to be - subtle and consistent.

Those who enjoy the kick-start of Adderall or Dexedrine, be warned; Desoxyn is not your drug.

Motivation is not my primary issue. I struggle with depression, anxiety, disastrously impaired executive function, and poor follow through. I have no lack of natural energy, but I do lack the confidence, sustained attention, and executive functioning to channel my energy into successful ventures and responsible choices. This is where amphetamines help me. The less PNS stimulation they bring the better.

So... at first dose, Desoxyn is quite satisfactory. Is is worth the extra cash? Only time will tell...

Chace90
11-23-11, 09:42 PM
Ok, the effects are still at their peak. I will not know how I feel about Desoxyn until I have had several days to get adjusted to it.

However, I will go ahead and say that the extreme stigma is, well, very silly. This is by far the most subtle stimulant I have ever taken. It lacks every quality typically associated with "speed." It almost feels like I took a dose of Valium with my Dexedrine.

I'm not complaining. I've come to dislike feeling medicated. If I was inclined to get high, my first choice would be Barr Adderall IR. When I think of an amphetamine high, I think of intense euphoria, energy, waves of physical pleasure (those Adderall adrenalin tingles), and an uncomfortable rebound, characterized by depression, anxiety, paranoia, fatigue, and painful muscle tension.

Desoxyn does not only seem to be less peripherally stimulating, it does not appear to stimulate the PNS at all. My body is very relaxed, and I now realize that I was experiencing considerable jitters and muscle tension on Dexedrine, though not nearly as much as I was on Adderall.

I'm not saying Desoxyn is less potent than Dexedrine, but rather that it is a different kind of potent. If you like that first, electric wave of Adderall, a comparative dose of Desoxyn will leave you hanging. I did not feel my dose "come on" at all. Neither have I noticed any significant points of decline.

Desoxyn is what Vyvanse claims to be - subtle and consistent.

Those who enjoy the kick-start of Adderall or Dexedrine, be warned; Desoxyn is not your drug.

Motivation is not my primary issue. I struggle with depression, anxiety, disastrously impaired executive function, and poor follow through. I have no lack of natural energy, but I do lack the confidence, sustained attention, and executive functioning to channel my energy into successful ventures and responsible choices. This is where amphetamines help me. The less PNS stimulation they bring the better.

So... at first dose, Desoxyn is quite satisfactory. Is is worth the extra cash? Only time will tell...
I think the stigma is because of the lack of side effects and how "smooth" Desoxyn is as well as how well it works. You could probably take a lot of it with minimal side effects compared to other stimulants. I don't really have any real proof of this but it is the only reason I could think of besides it being methamphetamine hydrochloride.

tambourine-man
11-23-11, 09:47 PM
@Chase90, I think you are correct to a degree. Also, methamphetamine is more easily produced here in the states, and the word "meth" has taken hold of the public consciousness. Adderall is "that college drug." Ritalin is "that drug for kids who can't sit still." Methamphetamine is "that drug that destroyed uncle Joe-bob who lives in the trailer outside of town."

tambourine-man
11-23-11, 10:11 PM
Desoxyn will need to prove itself worth the extra $170 I spent on it. I'm not sure if it is THAT much better. It too early to say whether or not it is better than Dexedrine at all. I can't form an opinion based on one dose. I can say that I am certainly not disappointed at this point.

tambourine-man
11-23-11, 10:44 PM
If I do stick with Desoxyn, it will be because it has two primary advantages. The first is it's potency. While far less physically stimulating than Adderall or Dexedrine, the 10mg dose I took today more than did the trick. This medication's subtlety is deceptive. It eliminates my symptoms, without that little physical reminder that it is doing so. Also, this first dose appeared to maintain peak effectiveness for twice as long as Dexedrine. While Dexedrine remains effective for four hours, it is really only between the 1.5 and 2.5 hour mark that it shows it's true potential.

This means that I may, indeed, be able to get by on two doses of Desoxyn, whereas I would require three daily doses of Dexedrine. Also, I may not even need 25mg per day. Much of the reason I took 40mg of Dexedrine in three doses was to extend the duration. Two 10mg doses of Desoxyn may carry me the whole day.

Once again, too early to tell (but don't I love recording my observations?!). Sorry guys, psychopharmaceuticals are an Aspie obsession of mine, and there is very little available information about Desoxyn.

relax21
11-24-11, 01:26 AM
Desoxyn is what Vyvanse claims to be - subtle and consistent.

I completely agree. If only Desoxyn Graduments were still available.

Bouncingoffwall
11-24-11, 03:53 AM
I'm guessing you didn't get much of a "body boost" out of the desoxyn, compared to dexedrine based on your observations... was your appetite significantly affected?

BTW, I found it to be very relaxing and calming.

tambourine-man
11-24-11, 10:14 AM
I'm guessing you didn't get much of a "body boost" out of the desoxyn, compared to dexedrine based on your observations... was your appetite significantly affected?

BTW, I found it to be very relaxing and calming.

Nope, not much of a body boost. I didn't notice any greater appetite suppression than usual.

Very calming... stimulating but not forcefully.

Basically, 5mg of Desoxyn has the therapeutic benefit of about 10mg of Dexedrine, with only 5mg worth of side-effects. Does that make sense?

Bouncingoffwall
11-24-11, 01:18 PM
Nope, not much of a body boost. I didn't notice any greater appetite suppression than usual.

Very calming... stimulating but not forcefully.

Basically, 5mg of Desoxyn has the therapeutic benefit of about 10mg of Dexedrine, with only 5mg worth of side-effects. Does that make sense?

Yes... less side effects per mg of Desoxyn vs. Adderall/Dexedrine.

tambourine-man
11-25-11, 03:47 PM
Well, the jury is still out, but my family votes Desoxyn. I'm much, much less tense than I was on Adderall or Dexedrine. Desoxyn is so smooth that I almost can't tell I've taken it. Like most people, I associate certain physical sensations with the medication's effectiveness. I think Desoxyn is actually MORE effective, but it is taking some getting used to. I find it ironic that since switching to methamphetamine, I've been hungrier and sleepier than I've been in months. My family thinks I will adjust and eventually feel less sedated. I believe they are correct.

If you like the "Kick in the pants" of Adderall, you will NOT care for Desoxyn. This is by far the least speedy amphetamine I have ever taken. In many ways it hardly feels like an amphetamine at all, yet the benefits are still there.

The serotonin stimulation, unique to Desoxyn, is very evident. It has pronounced anxiolytic effects.

In many ways, I think Desoxyn would make a better first line treatment option. Why not start on the medication with the least side-effects?

However, I think many patients would be disappointed with Desoxyn. This notoriously potent stimulant is not potent in the way that Adderall and Dexedrine are. It is smooth as butter. Some people like to feel their medication kicking in and wearing off. Desoxyn is hardly noticeable, which I find both refreshing and confusing. As I said, I still need to adjust, but the increasing PNS stimulation of Dexedrine and Adderall was exacerbating my anxiety.

I believe Desoxyn will prove to be a breath of fresh air... once I wake up. I'm going to continue taking 15mg in the morning, and 10mg in the afternoon. Hopefully my body will respond well to this dose as it adjusts. If not, I may increase to two doses of 15mg. I will keep updating my progress here.

tambourine-man
11-25-11, 05:00 PM
Does anyone know if Celexa will have a negative effect on Desoxyn? Are these two OK to combine?

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 12:08 AM
I've been taking Desoxyn for three days now. I hope no one thinks my frequent updates are over the top. I find that it is very beneficial to record my progress and response, and I hope that others can benefit from my observations.

I must say, Desoxyn is not the drug people think it is! I have tried nearly every stimulant on the market. Desoxyn is without doubt the most benign stimulant I have ever taken.

I mean it when I say that many people will be disappointed by it. Personally, I'm finding it to be a breath of fresh air, but only because it is so gentle. Wait, meth is the gentle drug? Yep! To say that Desoxyn is more potent than other stimulants is not saying much, because comparisons fail to illustrate what a completely different drug this is. If potency is measured by symptom relief, then yes Desoxyn is the most potent. If potency is measured by the intensity of that initial buzzy, motivating lift... Desoxyn is WEAK.

I think I expected it to be comparable to Dexedrine, but a bit smoother, and longer lasting. After Adderall, I was thrilled with Dexedrine's lack of PNS stimulation, but it is an edgy roller coaster compared to Desoxyn.

Every time I try a new medication, I find something different and refreshing. I decide I've found the best of the best. What I've learned is that none of these medications are superior - they are all vastly different, and have different applications.

None have been as surprising as Desoxyn. I cannot fathom why this medication has such an enormous stigma attached to it.

So why do I think most people will be disappointed? Well, there isn't exactly a short answer.

Let's face it guys, improved concentration is not the only reason most of us take stimulants. These drugs don't just treat our attention problems. They give us pep, boost our self-esteem, relieve our depression, and motivate us to be successful. They get us up in the morning and get us through the day. This is our dirty little secret. In a world where taking a pill to feel better is frowned upon, we have to pretend that our medications don't make us feel "good."

Guess what? My meds make me feel good! I like taking them! Is that a sin? Must I pretend that I hate taking a pill that improves my life and makes me happy? A pill that has, quite literally, saved me?

I think most people are attracted to Desoxyn because it is the big, bad, ever elusive "pharmaceutical meth." Guess what? If you gave a frat boy both Adderall and Desoxyn and didn't tell him what they were, he would probably prefer the Adderall. Adderall is the med that will allow him to cram all day, party all night, and score chicks with his newfound confidence. He isn't looking for gentle, subtle ADHD relief!

A lot of people just don't want subtle stimulants - that's ok! If you benefit from the kick of Adderall, more power to you. I must warn you though, Desoxyn doesn't provide a bigger, better kick in similiar doses. At therapeutic doses it does not provide a kick at all!

In a world without crooked social politics, Desoxyn would be a first line med, and everyone would be seeking the buzzy, energetic, holy grail of stimulants... known today as plain old Adderall.

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 11:07 AM
As I become more adjusted to Desoxyn I will start tinkering with my dosage schedule to find what works best.

I really hope I can find a way to make 25mg a day work, but am worried that duration will be a problem at this dose. I need this medicine to work all day. I have been taking 15mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon but this only takes me to about 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening (admittedly far longer than I've gotten out two doses of past IR meds).

I'm wondering if 10, 10, 5 would be a better dosing schedule. 15, 15? 10, 10, 10?

Any suggestions? This is the most crucial time in determining the effectiveness of a new med. The dose and schedule must be just right, or the med will not show it's true potential.

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 11:34 AM
Since relevant information on this medication is so rare, I thought I would post links to some of the helpful information that I brought to my doctor's attention.

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/436337

There is little evidence to suggest clinical use of dextromethamphetamine possesses greater liability of abuse, addiction or tolerance than other amphetamines. However, when the drug is abused (where it is traditionally used in dramatically higher doses than those employed clinically), methamphetamine is considered to be highly addictive. [Munzar P, et al. (1999). Effects of dopamine and serotonin-releasing agents on meth-amphetamine discrimination and self-administration in rats. Psychopharmacology 141: 287–296.]


http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Desoxyn

Further, because the secondary effects of dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride are least among the amphetamine-class stimulants or methylphenidate but the highest degree of primary effectiveness (i.e., most effective at enhancing concentration and decreasing distractibility, with the least occurrence of side effects), Desoxyn can be useful for patients who find other medications ineffective or for whom the side effects of such other medications are too severe.

The greater primary effectiveness of Desoxyn is believed to be caused by the extra methyl group of dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride which is lacking in basic amphetamine, which may increase the solubility of dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride in lipids (and therefore be more deeply and thoroughly absorbed into the fatty tissue of the brain).

http://www.anxietyzone.com/drugs/desoxyn.html

As a pharmaceutical-grade form of methamphetamine, which has gained a reputation for abuse, Desoxyn has retained a degree of controversy because of concerns it may be abused. However, the tablet form of Desoxyn cannot effectively be smoked, snorted or injected, and many patients treated with Desoxyn report the benefits to exceed that of related treatments such as Ritalin/methylphenidate or Adderall/amphetamine. Further, research has indicated that ADD/ADHD patients treated with stimulants are in fact less likely to abuse substances than patients who are not treated with these drugs, and there is little evidence that prescription stimulant use under a medical program administered by a doctor leads to abuse.

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/drugs-treatments/desoxyn

A detailed study which contains information on the chemical reasons for Desoxyn's potency, yet relative lack of side-effects...

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/15/2/1308.full.pdf

Jason954
11-26-11, 12:41 PM
I really hope I can find a way to make 25mg a day work, but am worried that duration will be a problem at this dose. I need this medicine to work all day. I have been taking 15mg in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon but this only takes me to about 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening (admittedly far longer than I've gotten out two doses of past IR meds).That's a make-or-break issue for me, too. I have to get up at 7, be sentient and functional by 7:30 (work phone calls with team in Singapore), not crash in the middle of the afternoon, and have at least a couple of good, productive hours after 8pm to work on my own stuff before going to bed at night.

The main thing is that if you do 10+10+5, the ideal dose interval might not quite be what you'd predict from half-life alone. The problem is that when you take dose #3, you have to take the metabolization curves of TWO previous doses into account. Otherwise, you can end up with what I've been seeing from Vyvanse + dexIR... a very short-lived bump back up to productive levels, followed by an even harder crash an hour or so later.

You might want to google for articles about the pharmacokinetics of Concerta (maybe even Sandoz' patent itself). Even though methylphenidate's half-life is ridiculously short compared to desoxyn's, I suspect lots of the same concepts apply. From what I remember, the most revolutionary aspect of Concerta was its acknowledgment that the minimum therapeutic concentration *itself* rises slowly throughout the day due to microtolerance that builds all day, then resets and goes away overnight.

I think the biggest single difference between methylphenidate and amphetamine pharmacokinetics is the need for sleep and the rate at which things go downhill when you don't get enough. Amphetamines stimulate neurotransmitter production, but methylphenidate just stimulates the release of reserves that have already been generated (and only get replenished during quality sleep). I think the microtolerance from both goes away at roughly the same rate, but in the case of methylphenidate you can be hit with a double-whammy if you don't get enough sleep -- microtolerance PLUS progressive depletion of reserves, leading to increased substitution of DA for NE to compensate (causing irritability, then anxiety & paranoia, eventually becoming outright hallucination & panic). I think in the case of amphetamines, the NE depletion and DA-NE substitution takes longer to start happening, but takes longer to fully recover from and heal when it does.

At least, that's what I saw when I'd get sleep-deprived on Concerta. Staying up for 36 hours and doing an all-nighter once a week was no big deal at all, as long as I could go to bed and sleep like a rock for the next 12 hours without interruptions when it was all done. In fact, it was one of my most productive days of the week for getting work done, because nobody bothered me late at night, and my aspie obsessions seemed to be easier to put on hold as well. HOWEVER... if someone or something forced me to stay awake the following day instead of sleeping it off, things went straight to hell by mid-afternoon -- I was basically just sleepwalking, I couldn't have two consecutive thoughts, and just about anything would send me into frustrated-rage aspie meltdown (and not my usual "run to the bathroom and do it discreetly in private" ones, either).

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 12:55 PM
That's a make-or-break issue for me, too. I have to get up at 7, be sentient and functional by 7:30 (work phone calls with team in Singapore), not crash in the middle of the afternoon, and have at least a couple of good, productive hours after 8pm to work on my own stuff before going to bed at night.

The main thing is that if you do 10+10+5, the ideal dose interval might not quite be what you'd predict from half-life alone. The problem is that when you take dose #3, you have to take the metabolization curves of TWO previous doses into account. Otherwise, you can end up with what I've been seeing from Vyvanse + dexIR... a very short-lived bump back up to productive levels, followed by an even harder crash an hour or so later.

You might want to google for articles about the pharmacokinetics of Concerta (maybe even Sandoz' patent itself). Even though methylphenidate's half-life is ridiculously short compared to desoxyn's, I suspect lots of the same concepts apply. From what I remember, the most revolutionary aspect of Concerta was its acknowledgment that the minimum therapeutic concentration *itself* rises slowly throughout the day due to microtolerance that builds all day, then resets and goes away overnight (but only if you're getting enough sleep; however, this might be more methylphenidate-dependent since amphetamines stimulate production, while methylphenidate just stimulates the release of reserves that will eventually start to deplete unless you sleep enough to regenerate them).

I'm familiar with Concerta's system and how it takes the issue of tachyphylaxis (escalating tolerance throughout the day) into account.

However, I've found that this issue is not so simple. I have found that my first and last doses (if I'm taking three) are always far less strong than my second dose.

This is very tricky and I have found that each med requires a different strategy, and even the same med must be switched up and adjusted as time goes on.

15mg of Desoxyn in the morning is perfect. 10mg in the afternoon works very well but I need it to last a couple more hours. I'm thinking two divided doses of 15mg may give me both the strength and duration that I need, but I REALLY want to try and make this work with as little medication as possible.

SnareDrumzZz
11-26-11, 02:34 PM
I've been taking Desoxyn for three days now. I hope no one thinks my frequent updates are over the top. I find that it is very beneficial to record my progress and response, and I hope that others can benefit from my observations.

I must say, Desoxyn is not the drug people think it is! I have tried nearly every stimulant on the market. Desoxyn is without doubt the most benign stimulant I have ever taken.

I mean it when I say that many people will be disappointed by it. Personally, I'm finding it to be a breath of fresh air, but only because it is so gentle. Wait, meth is the gentle drug? Yep! To say that Desoxyn is more potent than other stimulants is not saying much, because comparisons fail to illustrate what a completely different drug this is. If potency is measured by symptom relief, then yes Desoxyn is the most potent. If potency is measured by the intensity of that initial buzzy, motivating lift... Desoxyn is WEAK.

I think I expected it to be comparable to Dexedrine, but a bit smoother, and longer lasting. After Adderall, I was thrilled with Dexedrine's lack of PNS stimulation, but it is an edgy roller coaster compared to Desoxyn.

Every time I try a new medication, I find something different and refreshing. I decide I've found the best of the best. What I've learned is that none of these medications are superior - they are all vastly different, and have different applications.

None have been as surprising as Desoxyn. I cannot fathom why this medication has such an enormous stigma attached to it.

So why do I think most people will be disappointed? Well, there isn't exactly a short answer.

Let's face it guys, improved concentration is not the only reason most of us take stimulants. These drugs don't just treat our attention problems. They give us pep, boost our self-esteem, relieve our depression, and motivate us to be successful. They get us up in the morning and get us through the day. This is our dirty little secret. In a world where taking a pill to feel better is frowned upon, we have to pretend that our medications don't make us feel "good."

Guess what? My meds make me feel good! I like taking them! Is that a sin? Must I pretend that I hate taking a pill that improves my life and makes me happy? A pill that has, quite literally, saved me?

I think most people are attracted to Desoxyn because it is the big, bad, ever elusive "pharmaceutical meth." Guess what? If you gave a frat boy both Adderall and Desoxyn and didn't tell him what they were, he would probably prefer the Adderall. Adderall is the med that will allow him to cram all day, party all night, and score chicks with his newfound confidence. He isn't looking for gentle, subtle ADHD relief!

A lot of people just don't want subtle stimulants - that's ok! If you benefit from the kick of Adderall, more power to you. I must warn you though, Desoxyn doesn't provide a bigger, better kick in similiar doses. At therapeutic doses it does not provide a kick at all!

In a world without crooked social politics, Desoxyn would be a first line med, and everyone would be seeking the buzzy, energetic, holy grail of stimulants... known today as plain old Adderall. Why do you post stuff like this mate? You blame Aspie for everything.

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 02:49 PM
Why do you post stuff like this mate? You blame Aspie for everything.

Um... what? I'm sorry but I'll need you to clarify? Who is Aspie and what blame am I casting?

Are you saying that I blame my Asperger Syndrome for everything? Maybe you aren't familiar with my work. I blame Asperger Syndrome for many things, my success and abilities first and foremost. I don't expect you to read any of my writing, but you can watch this video about my life with AS if you'd like...

http://thautcast.com/drupal5/content/inside-out-my-life-aspergers-syndrome

I post stuff like you quoted because I enjoy recording my progress and hope my observations may benefit others.

Perhaps I've misinterpreted you. I don't see how the quoted post has anything to do with AS. Once again, please clarify.

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 04:14 PM
Interesting issue...

The doctor prescribed me 25mg a day, but wrote the script for 100 tablets. I initially assumed this was a mistake, but then I got to thinking about it, and my prescription came in a factory sealed bottle of 100 tablets. Apparently this is how it is sold.

Does this mean I can't purchase 125 at a time? Will I have to get my prescription filled every three weeks?

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 07:35 PM
I noticed there weren't any pictures of Mylan's Generic available online, so I took one myself...

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g445/Tambourine-Man/Desoxyn.jpg

tambourine-man
11-26-11, 11:44 PM
Well, I've come to the end of day four on Desoxyn.

I'm quickly coming to regard Desoxyn as ADHD's best kept secret... but the transition is proving to be bittersweet. Desoxyn is a better choice for me, yet a part of me is mourning the loss of Dexedrine and Adderall (though I still have about 80 Dexedrine tablets stowed away).

Dexedrine and Adderall seem to do all the work for me... at a price. I take one and everything seems to come so much easier. Desoxyn is not like this. It gives me the ability to motivate myself, but I definitely have a choice in the matter. This is both refreshing and frustrating for a number of reasons. It is nice to have control again, but there it is a bit unsettling to take the reigns after such a long time of letting the meds steer for me.

I won't be missing that edgy feeling though. I'm reconnecting with a part of myself that was missing on the other meds and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Desoxyn is forcing me to stop and smell the roses, but all that time on Dexedrine and Adderall makes me feel like I should be doing something more productive.

I still have to find the best dosing schedule to get me through the day.

Desoxyn is a very ironic medication. This notorious and "dangerous" medication is, surprisingly, so much easier on the brain and body. I really do think most of the members here would be disappointed by it, but only because most of us have been on more motivating meds.

Downix
11-26-11, 11:50 PM
You do realize that there is an irony in this, the "zomg, it's METH" drug is less of a kick than the other meds.

CheekyMonkey
11-27-11, 12:14 AM
Well, I've come to the end of day four on Desoxyn.

I'm quickly coming to regard Desoxyn as ADHD's best kept secret... but the transition is proving to be bittersweet. Desoxyn is a better choice for me, yet a part of me is mourning the loss of Dexedrine and Adderall (though I still have about 80 Dexedrine tablets stowed away).

Dexedrine and Adderall seem to do all the work for me... at a price. I take one and everything seems to come so much easier. Desoxyn is not like this. It gives me the ability to motivate myself, but I definitely have a choice in the matter. This is both refreshing and frustrating for a number of reasons. It is nice to have control again, but there it is a bit unsettling to take the reigns after such a long time of letting the meds steer for me.

I won't be missing that edgy feeling though. I'm reconnecting with a part of myself that was missing on the other meds and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Desoxyn is forcing me to stop and smell the roses, but all that time on Dexedrine and Adderall makes me feel like I should be doing something more productive.

I still have to find the best dosing schedule to get me through the day.

Desoxyn is a very ironic medication. This notorious and "dangerous" medication is, surprisingly, so much easier on the brain and body. I really do think most of the members here would be disappointed by it, but only because most of us have been on more motivating meds.


Med transitions are always bumpy. Give it a bit more time. Since you now have some more control over things, you will just need to polish up on the skills that you haven't been using for a while. You'll figure it all out in time!

babidi
11-27-11, 02:05 PM
Hey man, what's the Dexedrine IR to Desoxyn dose?

I think you should be on Desoxyn 20 mg Three times a day, 60 mg total a day. Hahaha!

Are you sticking to Desoxyn or going back to Dexedrine?

Is your Dexedrine the IR version?

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 02:10 PM
Hey man, what's the Dexedrine IR to Desoxyn dose?

I think you should be on Desoxyn 20 mg Three times a day, 60 mg total a day. Hahaha!

Are you sticking to Desoxyn or going back to Dexedrine?

Is your Dexedrine the IR version?

This is a tricky question. Desoxyn feels about half as potent as Dexedrine (yes, I was taking IR) but is probably twice as effective.

I think I'm going to need three doses a day though. I plan on sticking with Desoxyn because I believe it is healthier, but I will likely bump my dose to 30mg in three divided doses.

Jason954
11-27-11, 02:36 PM
How much did you pay for the bottle of 100? If you have insurance, how much does the receipt say you allegedly saved? I tried to find out at Walgreens yesterday, but was told (politely, but firmly) that they won't discuss availability or price on schedule II drugs unless you have a valid prescription in hand ready to be filled. grrrrrrrr.

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 02:43 PM
How much did you pay for the bottle of 100? If you have insurance, how much does the receipt say you allegedly saved? I tried to find out at Walgreens yesterday, but was told (politely, but firmly) that they won't discuss availability or price on schedule II drugs unless you have a valid prescription in hand ready to be filled. grrrrrrrr.

That's BS. Call a different pharmacy. They can discuss prices. Be assertive.

To answer your question, Desoxyn, even generic, is very expensive. Around here 500mg (100 tablets) is about $300 without insurance... unless you buy it off the street. 500mg of street meth is about $50. Ha ha. ; ) Sad but true.

This medication needs to be more widely prescribed and affordable. Many people would benefit from it. There is no reason why it should remain so taboo.

I once had a p-doc tell me, "I don't prescribe Desoxyn. That is meth! They are cooking it up in bathtubs!"

I replied, "Really?! The FDA allows companies like Lundbeck to manufacture their medications in bathtubs?!" Ha Ha!

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 03:03 PM
My doctor gave me permission to play with my dose but I don't quite feel comfortable going over 25mg until I see him. I do think I need to raise it though, not because it is ineffective at the current dose, but because I'm not getting the duration I need out of two doses.

Jason954
11-27-11, 03:21 PM
Ouch. As luck would have it, it turns out that Caremark has a division that sells mail-order prescription drugs to people who don't actually have insurance coverage (rxsavingsplus.com). It turns out, their price is exactly what you were charged -- almost exactly $3/pill.

This is criminal. This is a drug that was invented before our GREAT GRANDPARENTS were born, and was officially and legally available as a generic drug in the US before our parents were zygotes.

It's things like this that make me want to take the DEA's official claims (that anyone with proper controls in place can register and purchase the supplies) at face value and try to start a nonprofit pharmaceutical cooperative whose shareholders are people with ADD, and whose official business mission is to manufacture and sell generic ADD drugs whose patents expired years ago. Of course, if we started one, companies like Shire would be working overtime to whip up hysteria and get those non-patented "abusable" forms banned outright.

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 03:40 PM
Ouch. As luck would have it, it turns out that Caremark has a division that sells mail-order prescription drugs to people who don't actually have insurance coverage (rxsavingsplus.com). It turns out, their price is exactly what you were charged -- almost exactly $3/pill.

This is criminal. This is a drug that was invented before our GREAT GRANDPARENTS were born, and was officially and legally available as a generic drug in the US before our parents were zygotes.

It's things like this that make me want to take the DEA's official claims (that anyone with proper controls in place can register and purchase the supplies) at face value and try to start a nonprofit pharmaceutical cooperative whose shareholders are people with ADD, and whose official business mission is to manufacture and sell generic ADD drugs whose patents expired years ago. Of course, if we started one, companies like Shire would be working overtime to whip up hysteria and get those non-patented "abusable" forms banned outright.

Let's work together to look around and find the cheapest available options. Maybe there are some kind of discounts available somewhere. If you are thinking of switching, please feel free to utilize all the information I have provided here to educate your doctor. Tell him a fellow Aspie recommends it!

Really though, we need to find a way to get this stuff at a discount.

babidi
11-27-11, 03:43 PM
This is a tricky question. Desoxyn feels about half as potent as Dexedrine (yes, I was taking IR) but is probably twice as effective.

I think I'm going to need three doses a day though. I plan on sticking with Desoxyn because I believe it is healthier, but I will likely bump my dose to 30mg in three divided doses.

So 5 mg Desoxyn = 10 mg Dexedrine IR and Desoxyn last twice as long as Dexedrine IR?

What's the difference in terms of motivation (mentally) and concentration/focus?

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 03:50 PM
So 5 mg Desoxyn = 10 mg Dexedrine IR and Desoxyn last twice as long as Dexedrine IR?

What's the difference in terms of motivation (mentally) and concentration/focus?

Better and more fluid concentration, significantly less motivation, no side-effects. No side-effects whatsoever. That is what sets Desoxyn apart.

Desoxyn actually does not last more than an hour longer than Dexedrine, but the peak period of effectiveness is stretched over the course of the entire dose to an extent I have not even found with XR meds. There is no sharp peak or decline.

If you want motivation in a pill, look elsewhere.

babidi
11-27-11, 05:00 PM
Better and more fluid concentration, significantly less motivation, no side-effects. No side-effects whatsoever. That is what sets Desoxyn apart.

Desoxyn actually does not last more than an hour longer than Dexedrine, but the peak period of effectiveness is stretched over the course of the entire dose to an extent I have not even found with XR meds. There is no sharp peak or decline.

If you want motivation in a pill, look elsewhere.

So Desoxyn has better concentration/focus than Dexedrine IR?

However, Dexedrine IR has better motivation than Desoxyn?

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 05:05 PM
So Desoxyn has better concentration/focus than Dexedrine IR?

However, Dexedrine IR has better motivation than Desoxyn?

Desoxyn has more fluid concentration. Desoxyn is like a shot of clarity to the brain. Dexedrine is a huge dose of selective motivation and concentration.

Dexedrine = Energy, tunnel vision, and some side-effects.

Desoxyn = Nothing more or less than symptom control. Gentle and effective relief.

It's a bit like switching from laxatives to a better diet with plenty of fiber. It takes awhile for your body to adjust, but it is a healthier choice.

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 06:14 PM
So is Desoxyn the holy grail?

That depends on your definition of holy grail. Is is the most powerful, addictive, dangerous, and euphoric of all stimulants? Um... no. Not in my experience and certainly not at therapeutic doses. Is it a very effective med with the fewest possible side-effects that happens to be unjustly stigmatized and rarely prescribed? Absolutely.

In all honesty, I like Dexedrine better, but my body and mind greatly prefer Desoxyn.

Desoxyn is the most easily abused stimulant for the same reasons that it should be prescribed more often - it is without the physical and mental side-effects of other stimulants. If you're going to abuse large doses of a stimulant, you want to go with the one that your body and mind will least regret. Why should we have to put up with unnecessary side-effects just because the junkies don't want to? Desoxyn proves that many of the common side-effects complained about on these boards are nothing less than a deterrent to those who would take doses far larger than those prescribed in order to get high.

I just can't get over the unbelievable irony of prescription methamphetamine, the most gentle, subtle, and physically forgiving of all stimulants I have taken.

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 06:39 PM
Ouch. As luck would have it, it turns out that Caremark has a division that sells mail-order prescription drugs to people who don't actually have insurance coverage (rxsavingsplus.com). It turns out, their price is exactly what you were charged -- almost exactly $3/pill.

This is criminal. This is a drug that was invented before our GREAT GRANDPARENTS were born, and was officially and legally available as a generic drug in the US before our parents were zygotes.

It's things like this that make me want to take the DEA's official claims (that anyone with proper controls in place can register and purchase the supplies) at face value and try to start a nonprofit pharmaceutical cooperative whose shareholders are people with ADD, and whose official business mission is to manufacture and sell generic ADD drugs whose patents expired years ago. Of course, if we started one, companies like Shire would be working overtime to whip up hysteria and get those non-patented "abusable" forms banned outright.

I tracked this down on Lundbecks website...

All Other Lundbeck Products
Lundbeck offers comprehensive reimbursement and patient support programs for our other products as well. To learn more, please call 1-866-209-7604.

I will call them when they open tomorrow. Maybe we could get free brand name Desoxyn!

CheekyMonkey
11-27-11, 06:43 PM
That's BS. Call a different pharmacy. They can discuss prices. Be assertive.

To answer your question, Desoxyn, even generic, is very expensive. Around here 500mg (100 tablets) is about $300 without insurance... unless you buy it off the street. 500mg of street meth is about $50. Ha ha. ; ) Sad but true.

This medication needs to be more widely prescribed and affordable. Many people would benefit from it. There is no reason why it should remain so taboo.

I once had a p-doc tell me, "I don't prescribe Desoxyn. That is meth! They are cooking it up in bathtubs!"

I replied, "Really?! The FDA allows companies like Lundbeck to manufacture their medications in bathtubs?!" Ha Ha!

hahaha...hilarious! Unfortunately many Pdocs suck. They couldn't hack it in any other specialization and end up in psychiatry. This makes finding a good one very difficult!

TygerSan
11-27-11, 06:55 PM
Hmm . . . this whole discussion is very interesting to me.

I've been on Concerta and Adderall while I was writing up my thesis. Concerta made me zombie-like and made my concentration *worse*. . . I had some dissociative issues and once, at 56 mg, euphoria. Very strange.

Adderall was better, but OMG the hyperfocus. . . I could sit and do *anything* for hours, including playing a stupid puzzle computer game for 6 hours while "taking a break from writing". . .

Never did go to Dex, but it sounds like in your experience, that Desoxyn actually *doesn't* give you as much of the laser focus? That's really interesting, because that, the anxiety and bruxism are the three major reasons I am not taking anything right now.

I once had a very similar "yes, d-methamphetamine is still a schedule 2 drug that is prescribable for ADHD and narcolepsy" with a drug-addiction researcher. . . people are generally quite ignorant about the stimulants, especially Desoxyn.

tambourine-man
11-27-11, 07:19 PM
Hmm . . . this whole discussion is very interesting to me.

I've been on Concerta and Adderall while I was writing up my thesis. Concerta made me zombie-like and made my concentration *worse*. . . I had some dissociative issues and once, at 56 mg, euphoria. Very strange.

Adderall was better, but OMG the hyperfocus. . . I could sit and do *anything* for hours, including playing a stupid puzzle computer game for 6 hours while "taking a break from writing". . .

Never did go to Dex, but it sounds like in your experience, that Desoxyn actually *doesn't* give you as much of the laser focus? That's really interesting, because that, the anxiety and bruxism are the three major reasons I am not taking anything right now.

I once had a very similar "yes, d-methamphetamine is still a schedule 2 drug that is prescribable for ADHD and narcolepsy" with a drug-addiction researcher. . . people are generally quite ignorant about the stimulants, especially Desoxyn.

So much fuss and misunderstanding over a name. They should just market it by it's alternative name, desoxyephedrine. Those that are uninformed enough to think Desoxyn is comparable to street meth would be uninformed enough to think it was an entirely new medication.

SnareDrumzZz
11-27-11, 10:26 PM
Um... what? I'm sorry but I'll need you to clarify? Who is Aspie and what blame am I casting?

Are you saying that I blame my Asperger Syndrome for everything? Maybe you aren't familiar with my work. I blame Asperger Syndrome for many things, my success and abilities first and foremost. I don't expect you to read any of my writing, but you can watch this video about my life with AS if you'd like...

http://thautcast.com/drupal5/content/inside-out-my-life-aspergers-syndrome

I post stuff like you quoted because I enjoy recording my progress and hope my observations may benefit others.

Perhaps I've misinterpreted you. I don't see how the quoted post has anything to do with AS. Once again, please clarify.
Im not going to watch that video because I know you post in other forums. I havent seen Any Dexedrine shortages either. . .

Chace90
11-27-11, 11:09 PM
Alright, first of all you are supposed to try to get the most euphoric stimulant, your meds are not supposed to make you feel like crap. Amphetamines are used in treatment resistant cases of depression.

Jason954
11-27-11, 11:55 PM
I havent seen Any Dexedrine shortages either. . .

You obviously haven't tried filling a prescription for Adderall (IR or XR, brand or generic) or Dexedrine (spansules or IR, brand or generic) anywhere in America within the past month or two. If you even bothered to look at the Adderall and Dexedrine forums, you'd hear the wails and screams that began weeks ago. I personally spent almost TWO WEEKS trying to fill a prescription for 60 10mg IR dexedrine tablets, before finally hitting the jackpot and finding a pharmacy in the middle of a retirement community that happened to still have some in stock. They made a point of telling me that it was almost inconceivable that I'd be able to fill another prescription for 60 during the last week of December (or early January, for that matter).

I'm thrilled by Tambourine-Man's posts. As far as I'm concerned, the more details he wants to post, the better. I'm an Aspie with overlaid ADD too, so I find his postings to be directly relevant to my own issues.

cattail
11-28-11, 02:24 AM
I find it really interesting how much individual variation there is to different meds. I take Adderall ir and don't feel any "kick" to it. At first I did but after a month or so I don't notice a difference between on and off meds, unless I am doing something that requires a lot of focus. The only time I am aware is if I start the day with 20 instead of 10 mg. I don't like it at all! I like it to ease in and out without notice. Dex makes me a twitchy miserable mess! I m glad you are finding success with a new med nd thanks for sharing. I'm interested to know how your response compares to others.

I am a bit confused though. Adderall is also methamphetamines. How are they different?

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 03:00 AM
I find it really interesting how much individual variation there is to different meds. I take Adderall ir and don't feel any "kick" to it. At first I did but after a month or so I don't notice a difference between on and off meds, unless I am doing something that requires a lot of focus. The only time I am aware is if I start the day with 20 instead of 10 mg. I don't like it at all! I like it to ease in and out without notice. Dex makes me a twitchy miserable mess! I m glad you are finding success with a new med nd thanks for sharing. I'm interested to know how your response compares to others.

I am a bit confused though. Adderall is also methamphetamines. How are they different?

Adderall is a mix of four amphetamine salts, and is roughly 3/4 Dextroamphetamine and 1/4 Levoamphetamine.

L-amp stimulates primarily the PNS, with slight CNS stimulation.
D-amp stimulates primarily the CNS, with slight PNS stimulation.

PNS stimulation causes anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edginess.
CNS stimulation improves concentration, organizes racing thoughts, and gives you a feeling of calmness and clarity

Unlike Adderall, Dexedrine is pure d-amp.

Desoxyn is dextromethamphetamine. No levomethamphetamine. An added methyl group attached d-amp results in d-meth, which passes through the blood brain barrier more quickly and efficiently. This results in high amounts of CNS stimulation, with barely discernible PNS stimulation at therapeutic doses.

Basically, d-meth causes CNS stimulation... period.

Therefore...
Desoxyn (d-meth) is the least likely stimulant to cause anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edigness.

It is also the most likely to dramatically improve concentration, organize racing thoughts, and give you a feeling of calmness and clarity.

Does that sound like a "last resort" kind of med to you?

Jason954
11-28-11, 09:03 AM
Some confusion over Adderall's composition comes from the fact that its formulation DID change at some point between 1970 (when it was marketed as Obetrol) and 1995 (when the name was changed to Adderall).

Originally, the -saccharate and -aspartate salts were methamphetamine saccharate and methamphetamine hydrochloride.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reformulation occurred sometime during the 1980s, and occurred independently of its name change and official approval for ADD.

babidi
11-28-11, 09:38 AM
Desoxyn has more fluid concentration. Desoxyn is like a shot of clarity to the brain. Dexedrine is a huge dose of selective motivation and concentration.

Dexedrine = Energy, tunnel vision, and some side-effects.

Desoxyn = Nothing more or less than symptom control. Gentle and effective relief.

It's a bit like switching from laxatives to a better diet with plenty of fiber. It takes awhile for your body to adjust, but it is a healthier choice.

Could you explain "fluid concentration" more? More examples about "fluid concentration"?

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 11:48 AM
Some confusion over Adderall's composition comes from the fact that its formulation DID change at some point between 1970 (when it was marketed as Obetrol) and 1995 (when the name was changed to Adderall).

Originally, the -saccharate and -aspartate salts were methamphetamine saccharate and methamphetamine hydrochloride.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reformulation occurred sometime during the 1980s, and occurred independently of its name change and official approval for ADD.

Correct. They changed it in the 80s because meth was gaining a stigma. It was being clandestinely manufactured and IV methedrine use wreaked havoc on the hippie scene.

rivered314
11-28-11, 02:02 PM
Thank you so much for all of the information that you've put out here. I've been reading up on this drug, and I think it may be worth trying.

One thing I'm a bit confused with is the pricing, because you have discussed how expensive it is. I went on my insurance account and looked up desoxyn 5mg. I input a month supply of 5 pills per day (just because you say you're taking 25 mg, so I assume 5 pills) and they said with coverage it's $45 dollars. The generic methamphetamine hydrochloride is $10. Is this possible?

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 02:18 PM
Thank you so much for all of the information that you've put out here. I've been reading up on this drug, and I think it may be worth trying.

One thing I'm a bit confused with is the pricing, because you have discussed how expensive it is. I went on my insurance account and looked up desoxyn 5mg. I input a month supply of 5 pills per day (just because you say you're taking 25 mg, so I assume 5 pills) and they said with coverage it's $45 dollars. The generic methamphetamine hydrochloride is $10. Is this possible?

I do not have insurance. I just called Lundbeck and found out that they don't offer assistance for their controlled substances. : (

Any advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 03:03 PM
Could you explain "fluid concentration" more? More examples about "fluid concentration"?

It doesn't force your focus onto one thing like Adderall does. It doesn't exacerbate hyper focus. You have the choice to focus on this or that, and switch tasks as needed.

PositivelyPositive
11-28-11, 03:04 PM
Well, I've come to the end of day four on Desoxyn.

I'm quickly coming to regard Desoxyn as ADHD's best kept secret... but the transition is proving to be bittersweet. Desoxyn is a better choice for me, yet a part of me is mourning the loss of Dexedrine and Adderall (though I still have about 80 Dexedrine tablets stowed away).

Dexedrine and Adderall seem to do all the work for me... at a price. I take one and everything seems to come so much easier. Desoxyn is not like this. It gives me the ability to motivate myself, but I definitely have a choice in the matter. This is both refreshing and frustrating for a number of reasons. It is nice to have control again, but there it is a bit unsettling to take the reigns after such a long time of letting the meds steer for me.

I won't be missing that edgy feeling though. I'm reconnecting with a part of myself that was missing on the other meds and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Desoxyn is forcing me to stop and smell the roses, but all that time on Dexedrine and Adderall makes me feel like I should be doing something more productive.

I still have to find the best dosing schedule to get me through the day.

Desoxyn is a very ironic medication. This notorious and "dangerous" medication is, surprisingly, so much easier on the brain and body. I really do think most of the members here would be disappointed by it, but only because most of us have been on more motivating meds.

Thanks for your honesty in this journey/journal of yours! I'm sure this will help many.

peripatetic
11-28-11, 03:25 PM
moderator note:

this thread needs to get back on topic and stay on topic. if members have problems with one another there are four options:

1. put the other person on "ignore" (go to user control panel and edit ignore list);

2. take it off this thread and settle your quarrels through private messaging;

3. get over it/remove self from thread if you can't bicker about/attack others;

4. violate the etiquette guidelines by bickering and/or attacking/flaming other members (ok to disagree with others' positions, not ok to insult or attack other *persons*) and receive an infraction for it.

here is a link to the etiquette guidelines: http://www.addforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=75&a=90

here is the original post and topic of this thread:

Well, I just took my first dose. I'm starting low because I'm inexperienced with Desoxyn. My GP gave me the script because I couldn't get in to see my p-doc. He knew what it was and had no problem prescribing it to me. It probably helped that I brought in information and am very knowledgable.
This stuff comes in a sealed bottle. The pharmacist wrote "METH" on the lid with a sharpie. Too funny!

I will let you guys know what I think. I'm a bit irritated because the Dexedrine was working well, but hopefully this will be satisfactory.

The pharmacy actually had it in stock! It seems the shortages have resulted in numerous patients exploring other options. If this truly is all that and a bag of chips, I will stick with it. However, it is far more expensive than the Dexedrine, so I will be switching back at soonest available opportunity if I'm not terribly impressed.

I had the doctor prescribe 100 tablets, enough for 25mg a day (15 less than my daily Dexedrine dosage) but the doctor said I could play with the dose if it wasn't strong enough. I will be taking 15mg in the morning and 10mg in the evening. I am hoping the longer duration will mean I will only have to dose twice a day.

I will post an update shortly.

SnareDrumzZz
11-28-11, 04:16 PM
Alright, you are supposed to try to get the most euphoric stimulant, your meds are not supposed to make you feel like crap. Amphetamines are used in treatment resistant cases of depression.
I dont know about anyone else but if I take Amphetamines on a depressing day it only makes the depression more blown out of proportion. Anyone whos got the slightest bit of Real knowledge on meth use pharmacutical grade or bathtub will tell you it will make your issues worse. I have been on ADD meds longer than this topic starter. If you Really think Desoxyn is for depression for those who are resistant to other meds you Are way off. Have you heard of depletion of sert. Or dopm. ?!

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 06:44 PM
Thank you peripatetic!

I've had much better luck today with a three dose schedule. I think I will be taking 10mg 3x per day.

I have a feeling I will come to be grateful for Dexedrine shortages.

Ah, unanswered prayers. Thank God for em.

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 11:11 PM
I dont know about anyone else but if I take Amphetamines on a depressing day it only makes the depression more blown out of proportion. Anyone whos got the slightest bit of Real knowledge on meth use pharmacutical grade or bathtub will tell you it will make your issues worse. I have been on ADD meds longer than this topic starter. If you Really think Desoxyn is for depression for those who are resistant to other meds you Are way off. Have you heard of depletion of sert. Or dopm. ?!

Have you heard of magnesium? Memantadine? B vitamins? 5-HTP? L-Tyrosine? Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors? Healthy dietary choices? Exercise?

I don't recall ever saying that I was so depressed that I needed a more potent stimulant to escape my problems by getting high.

It is vital that stimulant users are well informed, self-aware, and responsible. This forum provides ample evidence of individuals taking an active role in their treatment, and gathering helpful knowledge. We discuss our experiences, offer credible support for our ideas, and learn from one another. That is why these forums were created.

If your medication is making things worse for you, you might want to reach out to some of the people on these forums and utilize their knowledge and experiences.

I switched to Desoxyn because the widely publicized Dexedrine and Adderall shortages left me no other choice. I am glad I made the switch. My body is thanking me.

Perhaps you have not been impacted by the shortages. If that is the case, I sincerely hope you will not be. Those of us who have are reaching out to one another on these forums to find alternatives. I hope that my experiences will prove helpful to those in similarly problematic situations.

I have provided a great deal of evidence to support my assertions on this thread. If you feel that I have overlooked evidence that suggests Desoxyn is a universally harmful substance, without redeeming benefits, please make such evidence available here. Black and white statements are rarely credible. Desoxyn is neither good nor bad. It can be a very helpful tool, or a dangerous weapon of self-destruction. Sometimes it just isn't much of a fit either way. It is up to the individual user to make the best of their medication.

I wish you the best of luck in your ongoing treatment, and I hope you will extend the same encouragement to those here who are less experienced than yourself. : )

tambourine-man
11-28-11, 11:56 PM
Adderall is a mix of four amphetamine salts, and is roughly 3/4 Dextroamphetamine and 1/4 Levoamphetamine.

L-amp stimulates primarily the PNS, with slight CNS stimulation.
D-amp stimulates primarily the CNS, with slight PNS stimulation.

PNS stimulation causes anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edginess.
CNS stimulation improves concentration, organizes racing thoughts, and gives you a feeling of calmness and clarity

Unlike Adderall, Dexedrine is pure d-amp.

Desoxyn is dextromethamphetamine. No levomethamphetamine. An added methyl group attached d-amp results in d-meth, which passes through the blood brain barrier more quickly and efficiently. This results in high amounts of CNS stimulation, with barely discernible PNS stimulation at therapeutic doses.

Basically, d-meth causes CNS stimulation... period.

Therefore...
Desoxyn (d-meth) is the least likely stimulant to cause anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edigness.

It is also the most likely to dramatically improve concentration, organize racing thoughts, and give you a feeling of calmness and clarity.

Does that sound like a "last resort" kind of med to you?

I would add that Desoxyn also releases higher amounts of Serotonin than d-amp alone, which can be good or bad depending on your natural chemistry.

It seems that the majority of people find that Desoxyn is a remarkably smooth medication. It does it's job with little fuss. This is because Desoxyn is highly dopaminergic, slightly serotogenic, yet relatively indifferent to norepinephrine.

If attention problems are linked primarily to dopamine, it seems that the most dopamine specific medication, free of unwanted PNS stimulation, would be the most widely beneficial and tolerable treatment for ADHD.

So why is it not? Why should we let a few bad apples ruin bunch?

Do my expiences with Desoxyn surprise anyone? Has anyone had a different response? I'm interested in seeing how common my experience is.

Danni926
11-29-11, 01:19 AM
Hey Scotty, I can't wait to be caught up enough with work & life stuff so that i can fully read your posts since u started your journey with deso...please confirm, u started Wed., 11/23, correct?

desoxyn is one of the first adhd meds i was told about in great length by an older coworker/friend who took this medication 15-20 years ago, but for reasons unknown to me, no longer takes it...i do not understand why i have not read anything about this drug much, if at all, on this or other sites, when i heard such good things about it?

so a few days later i was diagnosed and started my first course of adhd meds ever, the adderall ir...i was told to expect this in the event of add/adhd diagnosis.

***insight welcome, please***....i have been about at the end of my rope in general the last week or so.

Keeping in mind i am only 3 months in, (8/29/11 first dose date), i have been on a roller coaster with dose and meds, the dose part was to be expected, the med part, NOT expected, due to the shortage and the havoc it's wreaked on me as well as many many others.

My prescribing psych nurse has brought up vyvanse on occasion, and the research i have done has me extremely wary, speaking for me of course, and i don't think i can commit to that type of medication. In fact i actually do not prefer to be on an XR in general. I feel a lack of control and "say" that I am not comfortable with.

I have been taking adderall consistently, that much is solid; IR, XR, and all 3 of the generics....i am now for the first time taking Barr 20 mg IR as my afternoon booster. I take 40 mg Adderall XR name brand...i took the barr Dex 5 mg IR for a month when adderall IR was not an option.

Today was day 4 of the Barr IR, and i am experiencing side effects that I am not happy with. I am taking 20 mg in the afternoon, no more or less. Maybe tomorrow i will split a 20 and just take 10, though i don't know how sensible that is when the focus is there, the productivity i need is there, but the side effects are as well. Reduce dosage, reduce desired results.

I can't win with adderall!!! Or at least this is how i feel today, 4 minutes from my 90 day Adderall-anniversary...I was struggling with some anxiety and a bluesy feeling yesterday and this morning that thankfully was short lived....i have nothing to attribute it to other than the new adderall...I take my anti-d (Celexa, 40 mg) as i have since June 2009.

I am a pretty intense girl naturally, high energy, high metabolism, mild neurotic tendencies, noticing more OCD type tendencies the longer i am taking adderall? Coincedence?

Is it possible adderall just isn't for me? I am so confused right now i don't know if i am coming or going with adderall. I do know that i want to continue, i just do not know how to best determine the way for me to do that...the XR is my main course, but it's proven to be inconsistent in the almost 2 months i am on it, and certainly falls short in coverage since i have needed an IR booster most afternoons.

i need to make changes. I have not been happy with my prescribing psych nurse or therapist, and after careful consideration, i have appt with my new psy doc/med manager on 12/5. i was referred to him by a trusted source and was impressed with his profile, seasoned, over 25 years in the biz....

Sorry this is so long. I have to get it out now or i will feel unsettled before i go to bed, and since I have been a bit more obsessive/compulsive lately, what i don't say here will have to be journaled in my notebook, and i am just too tired to hand write : (

I know i can't say too much to my new doc, i will only tell him where i was, where i am now, and where i hope to be in the near future....i hope i like him, can anyone offer any suggestions as to how i might want to get off to a good and assertive/positive/productive start with my new seasoned male Psych doc? help help help....

thank u if u read this far...though i fear nobody will....lost.

tambourine-man
11-29-11, 02:12 AM
Danni926,

I think Adderall is a wonderful medication for those who can tolerate it long term. I could not. I would still be on that Sandoz IR if it weren't for increasing anxiety and muscle pain.

You should really think about cutting out the l-amp. Look into Dexedrine. I realize that this is a Desoxyn thread, but I'm not going to recommend that you ask a brand new doctor about Desoxyn.

Just explain to him that you are experiencing unwanted PNS stimulation and that your research indicates that the l-amp in Adderall may be responsible. If he wants you to try Vyvanse, and is insistent, I would give it a try. I know, Shire is criminal. However, you may respond to Vyvanse, and if you do not you will have earned the right to request Dexedrine.

Regardless, if you bring in quality information you will be successful. A decent doctor won't argue with facts.

PositivelyPositive
11-29-11, 04:54 AM
Hello. I am diagnosed with ADHD and Narcolepsy. tambourine-man, I can't help but think that you know what narcolepsy is. I not only need the stimulant to calm me down and slow my thoughts, allowing me to focus (adhd). I also have to deal with the narcoleptic part, which is just an all day sleepiness. So without getting to much into detail, I need a stimulant that is not just helping me focus, but that has the boost to keep me alert, all day. Right now, I am taking dexedrine IR. I tried adderall and it just makes me too anxious. The reason I chimed in here is to see what your opinion is on what I have wrote and if I could maybe benefit from Desoxyn. The main question is, does Desoxyn in your opinion give you much of a wakefulness? See even when I sleep 8 hours, I still feel like I've had about 3-4 as far as wakefulness. From what you have written so far it seems like maybe Desoxyn wouldn't have enough strength to keep me awake and focused. What do you say?

tambourine-man
11-29-11, 10:05 AM
Hello. I am diagnosed with ADHD and Narcolepsy. tambourine-man, I can't help but think that you know what narcolepsy is. I not only need the stimulant to calm me down and slow my thoughts, allowing me to focus (adhd). I also have to deal with the narcoleptic part, which is just an all day sleepiness. So without getting to much into detail, I need a stimulant that is not just helping me focus, but that has the boost to keep me alert, all day. Right now, I am taking dexedrine IR. I tried adderall and it just makes me too anxious. The reason I chimed in here is to see what your opinion is on what I have wrote and if I could maybe benefit from Desoxyn. The main question is, does Desoxyn in your opinion give you much of a wakefulness? See even when I sleep 8 hours, I still feel like I've had about 3-4 as far as wakefulness. From what you have written so far it seems like maybe Desoxyn wouldn't have enough strength to keep me awake and focused. What do you say?

This is the strange part. 10mg of Desoxyn is far more sedating than 10mg Dexedrine. However, boost the dose up to 15mg or more and it becomes significantly more energizing than the same dose of Dexedrine.

Desoxyn would be worth the switch, but only if you are prescribed enough. Dexedrine/Desoxyn equivalency is not easily measured, and most doctors will prescribe significantly less Desoxyn than Dexedrine.

tambourine-man
11-29-11, 11:45 AM
I'm enjoying Desoxyn's consistency. It seems to be much less variable than other IR medications. It is comparable to Sandoz Adderall in this respect. Dexedrine was very consistent... about 70 percent of the time. The remaining 30 percent of those Barr tablets are all over the place.

tambourine-man
11-29-11, 01:36 PM
I did get permission from the doctor to take 10mg three times per day. Well, he had already given me permission to play with the dose, but I just wanted to make sure it was documented. I don't think you can be too careful with this particular medication.

CheekyMonkey
11-29-11, 10:44 PM
I did get permission from the doctor to take 10mg three times per day. Well, he had already given me permission to play with the dose, but I just wanted to make sure it was documented. I don't think you can be too careful with this particular medication.

Any luck with discounts?

tambourine-man
11-30-11, 02:37 AM
Any luck with discounts?

No luck so far. : (

Which is way too bad, because I've had a lot of luck with Desoxyn. 10mg 3x a day is absolutely perfect. Now that I've adjusted a bit more I'm able to experience this medication's full potential.

It seems I've climbed the stimulant ladder to the very top, and I've been more and more impressed with each new medication.

At this point I would rank them in this order...

1. Desoxyn
2. Dexedrine IR
3. Sandoz Adderall IR
4. Barr Adderall IR
5. Vyvanse
6. Corepharma Adderall IR

All methylphenidate products are equally awful for me. I haven't tried Focalin though. The above list is ordered based on greatest therapeutic benefit and least side-effects. It would be different if I was judging their motivating effects. Adderall is by far the most motivating.

Massari
11-30-11, 02:55 AM
Man, as soon as desoxyn is approved in Canada, I'm gona get a permit, open a company, build a 10,000 gallon CSTR reactor and make Meth for all Canadian ADDers, and God there are many!

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9784/transport4.jpg

amu_d
11-30-11, 04:17 AM
Man, as soon as desoxyn is approved in Canada, I'm gona get a permit, open a company, build a 10,000 gallon CSTR reactor and make Meth for all Canadian ADDers, and God there are many!

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9784/transport4.jpg

Great idea, man, and as a Canadian citizen I will run back to Canada then! :D

tambourine-man
11-30-11, 01:29 PM
Great idea, man, and as a Canadian citizen I will run back to Canada then! :D

Why isn't Desoxyn available in other countries? "Meth Madness" never really gained such widespread media coverage in other countries, so you would think the stigma would be even greater here.

Most everyone else just offers Dexedrine and Ritalin.

tambourine-man
11-30-11, 02:10 PM
I was interested in seeing how recreational stimulant users with faux ADHD respond to Desoxyn so I did a google search. Well, it is obvious that Desoxyn is the most coveted stimulant for recreational purposes, but only by those who have not taken it. I found a lot of reports of users named "SWIM" (huh?) who were on Dexedrine and finally talked their "croaker" to switching them to "prescription meth." Their opinion?

"Desoxyn sucks! I want my Dexedrine back. This stuff is nothing like crystal. It puts me to sleep."

"I think they forgot to put the meth in this stuff. Adderall is way tweakier."

"Do they water this stuff down so people don't take it? Did my doc give me a placebo? Desoxyn blows fer real."

"Better than Ritalin, not as good as Vyvanse. Vyvanse give my monkey a better buzz."

"I never had any success with desoxyn. I remember getting so psyched bc it is supposedly pharmaceutical speed; however, even with no amphetamine tolerance, I felt nothing from it. I would IV and sniff and eat a whole bunch and be very disappointed and felt like a 20mg Adderall or 10 mg dextrostat would have been more satisfying."

"I've procured the elusive Desoxyn script... and what an utter disappointment."

Compare these to user reviews from those genuinely seeking therapeutic treatment...

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/drugs-treatments/rating/desoxyn

Jason954
11-30-11, 02:23 PM
"SWIM" == "Someone Who Isn't Me" :cool:

They use it to avoid self-incrimination ;-)

relax21
11-30-11, 04:25 PM
I'm wondering if 10, 10, 5 would be a better dosing schedule. 15, 15? 10, 10, 10?

Try 15 mg AM & 15 mg PM about 5-6 hours apart. See how that works for coverage.

Of course, I'm sure you know by now that the duration of the drug could also be effected by what you eat or if you take the medication with or without food.

Best advice I can give you is to be patient and consistent with your dosing regiments. Sometimes it just takes time to adjust to a new medication.

tambourine-man
11-30-11, 05:45 PM
Try 15 mg AM & 15 mg PM about 5-6 hours apart. See how that works for coverage.

Of course, I'm sure you know by now that the duration of the drug could also be effected by what you eat or if you take the medication with or without food.

Best advice I can give you is to be patient and consistent with your dosing regiments. Sometimes it just takes time to adjust to a new medication.

I am thrilled to report that I have adjusted well. I am taking 10mg three times daily, but may try 15mg two times daily if I run into trouble.

I really want to thank you for all your advice, both privately and publicly. Desoxyn is rarely prescribed, so there are few people to turn to with questions and this really is a different animal.

I was nervous about it at first. I was getting a lot of unwanted PNS stimulation, even from Dexedrine, which was really exacerbating my anxiety. I didn't want to admit to myself that I was having problems, because these meds have saved my life. I often say that, and I'm sure people think I'm exaggerating, but I'm truly not. No one will ever quite understand how dangerous my mindset used to be. I felt worthless, hopelessly depressed. I spent a lot of time in mental hospitals and emergency rooms. I attempted suicide many times.

I owe my life to stimulant therapy, and I'm honestly terrified that these meds will lose their effectiveness, or result in increasingly intolerable side-effects.

The Dexedrine shortages really frightened me, and I was terrified that Desoxyn would be ineffective. At the same time, I was very excited to try this ever elusive medication.

Desoxyn baffled me initially. It was not what I had expected. It has taken a bit of time to adjust but I feel wonderful. I feel like myself again, not some productive robot.

Anyone who switches to Desoxyn must be prepared to face challenges and rise above, as they would with any other medication. Desoxyn is the best treatment I have ever found. It has surpassed all my expectations, but I have put a lot of work into understanding how I respond to it and how I can best benefit from it.

Now I'm scared that it will be removed from the market, or I won't be able to afford it. It is tragic how drug companies callously toy with people's lives and health for a profit.

Desoxyn is my medication now. I hope it will be for as long as I need it.

CheekyMonkey
11-30-11, 11:24 PM
No luck so far. : (

Which is way too bad, because I've had a lot of luck with Desoxyn. 10mg 3x a day is absolutely perfect. Now that I've adjusted a bit more I'm able to experience this medication's full potential.

It seems I've climbed the stimulant ladder to the very top, and I've been more and more impressed with each new medication.

At this point I would rank them in this order...

1. Desoxyn
2. Dexedrine IR
3. Sandoz Adderall IR
4. Barr Adderall IR
5. Vyvanse
6. Corepharma Adderall IR

All methylphenidate products are equally awful for me. I haven't tried Focalin though. The above list is ordered based on greatest therapeutic benefit and least side-effects. It would be different if I was judging their motivating effects. Adderall is by far the most motivating.

I'm guessing everyone reacts differently. I will consider your list whenever I figure myself out!

tambourine-man
12-01-11, 02:19 AM
Basically Adderall is one heck of a fling but I wouldn't want to settle down with it. Dexedrine is a very tempting mistress, who is always available, but not quite stable enough for an exclusive commitment. Desoxyn makes an excellent wife - you still have to put a lot of work into the relationship, but things are very smooth and reliable as long as you are respectful and appreciative.

namazu
12-01-11, 02:26 AM
Basically Adderall is one heck of a fling but I wouldn't want to settle down with it. Dexedrine is a very tempting mistress, who is always available, but not quite stable enough for an exclusive commitment. Desoxyn makes an excellent wife - you still have to put a lot of work into the relationship, but things are very smooth and reliable as long as you are respectful and appreciative.
I love how you're taking the long-term perspective -- after being "married" for a whole week! ;)

(j/k)

Glad you're doing so well on it, and may you continue to have nothing but the desirable effects, without unpleasant side effects. :)

tambourine-man
12-01-11, 03:35 AM
I love how you're taking the long-term perspective -- after being "married" for a whole week! ;)

(j/k)

Glad you're doing so well on it, and may you continue to have nothing but the desirable effects, without unpleasant side effects. :)

It wasn't exactly love at first sight, but side-effects and shortages have left me no alternatives and I'm not crazy about the single life. Ha ha.

My "commitment" is not because Desoxyn is any more effective than Dexedrine or Adderall (in a lot of ways it is less effective) but because it gets the job done with the absolute minimum amount of side-effects, and because the shortages have really frightened me and I'm not worried about Desoxyn shortages as it is so rarely prescribed. I am, however, worried about discontinuation, at which point I would return to Dexedrine, which is an excellent medication.

I'm mostly just really ready to settle down. Sandoz Adderall became unavailable, so I switched to Dexedrine, which then became unavailable. I was pretty satisfied with both of those while I was on them, though side-effects increased over time.

I'm tired of playing musical meds. I don't like having to switch the medication that I rely on because it is suddenly unavailable.

tambourine-man
12-01-11, 11:52 AM
I would like to emphasize that I am in no one trying to downplay the overwhelmingly dangerous potential of Desoxyn or any other amphetamine when abused. No one should risk their mental or physical health by abusing these medications. Not even once. A single high dose of amphetamine or methamphetamine has an unparalleled ability to highjack a person's natural reward system and begin a devastating cycle of abuse. These drugs really do destroy lives. Responsible use and careful titration is vitally important. You must teach yourself to use these substances as tools, or they will use you!

tambourine-man
12-02-11, 01:22 AM
I tried two doses of 15mg today, which actually seemed to last just as long as three 10mg doses. Dosing schedules are funny. Every medication is different.

Desoxyn feels much closer to an XR med. It takes effect relatively rapidly, but builds and declines very, very slowly. In a way, it is like Vyvanse but you don't have to wait around for two hours.

Also, higher doses seem to last much longer than lower doses. I would be very pleased if I could get away with a twice daily dosing schedule!

tambourine-man
12-04-11, 06:00 PM
Thanks to relax21 for providing this link, which he referred to as "the Bible of methamphetamine hydrochloride information." Good stuff!

http://www.biblioteca.cij.gob.mx/Archivos/Materiales_de_consulta/Drogas_de_Abuso/Metanfetaminas/Articulos/methamphetamine.pdf

tambourine-man
12-06-11, 03:09 PM
My anxiety has decreased so significantly since switching to Desoxyn, that I am considering tapering off Celexa. I'm not sure it is neccessary at this point.

Does anyone know of any reason to stay on the Celexa/Desoxyn combo? Does Celexa in any way combat possible serotonin depletion from Desoxyn, or is depletion unlikely at my dose?

Advice?

foggedup
12-06-11, 03:25 PM
K I can't find the wikipedia article that says "methamphetamine is neurotoxic, but xyz is not." I thought it was dex, but looking it up said that dex is neurotoxic at pharmaceutical levels too. So I guess in the long run by taking these meds, we're damaging ourselves. :(

tambourine-man
12-06-11, 05:12 PM
K I can't find the wikipedia article that says "methamphetamine is neurotoxic, but xyz is not." I thought it was dex, but looking it up said that dex is neurotoxic at pharmaceutical levels too. So I guess in the long run by taking these meds, we're damaging ourselves. :(

It is a bit of a stretch to say these meds are "neurotoxic" at therapeutic doses. There are so many variables that come into play. Also, there are a variety of effective ways to prevent any potential neurotoxicity.

Recreational doses are certainly damaging, and some evidence suggests that the damage is irreparable.

Relax21, I think you could offer some insight here!

relax21
12-06-11, 06:07 PM
From what I understand, both dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine can cause neurotoxicity. Foggedup is right that even therapeutic doses may be neurotoxic, but as you said, tambourine-man, there are many variables.

The FDA's maximum dose of Adderall, Desoxyn, and Dexedrine (generally 60 mg MAX) are safety limits. Doses over 60 mg daily of amphetamines increase the chances of neurotoxicity, and are avoided for that reason.

It also depends largely on frequency of use. So, the longer you take amphetamines the more risk you face. However, taking amphetamines or methlyphenidates for 2 years is generally regarded as safe. Drug holidays are important, as well as maintaining a consistent dose.

Basically, the extent and severity of neurotoxicity depends on dosage, frequency of use, and route of administration (e.g., oral, intravenous, intranasal). At low oral doses of amphetamines there is little concern about neurotoxicity. If neurotoxicity does develop at therapeutic doses it is reversible, as the brain will heal itself with abstinence from the drug. But, if someone is injecting, smoking, or snorting amphetamines neurotoxicity may be irreversible.

Overall, amphetamines (including methamphetamine) are generally regarded as safe and effective drugs when used as they are intended. As long as you're taking your medication as your doctor has prescribed you shouldn't be worried about neurotoxicity.

tambourine-man
12-06-11, 07:04 PM
I think this thread should be a sticky. It is very difficult to find quality information on Desoxyn and a great deal has been shared here. The shortages are resulting in a lot of desperate patients, yet most doctors are still ignorant about Desoxyn and extremely hesitant to prescribe it.

There is a large body of educational information in this thread which could be used to enlighten doctors.

LanCo Rider
12-06-11, 07:11 PM
On the subject of Neurotoxicity... I am on a max of 35mg per day of Dex.

There are 1000mgs in one gram which is nothing for the street (meth) user.

The doses we are taking are so small that I really cannot see how they are harmful.

A meth user can use whats' called an eight ball (3.5 grams) in one "good" night or so. So that is like taking 350 10mg pills. I don't think our doses are too harmful, honestly.

CheekyMonkey
12-07-11, 12:36 AM
My anxiety has decreased so significantly since switching to Desoxyn, that I am considering tapering off Celexa. I'm not sure it is neccessary at this point.

Does anyone know of any reason to stay on the Celexa/Desoxyn combo? Does Celexa in any way combat possible serotonin depletion from Desoxyn, or is depletion unlikely at my dose?

Advice?

That is awesome!! I would ask your pdoc, maybe you can just taper and keep a close eye on things?

Do you use moodtracker.com? That is a great site to really watch changes and such. You can also share the info online with your pdoc if you want to.

tambourine-man
12-07-11, 04:49 PM
Thanks to relax21 for providing this link, which he referred to as "the Bible of methamphetamine hydrochloride information." Good stuff!

http://www.biblioteca.cij.gob.mx/Archivos/Materiales_de_consulta/Drogas_de_Abuso/Metanfetaminas/Articulos/methamphetamine.pdf

This literature claims that a single hit of smoked street methamphetamine typically contains roughly 22mg! That is over two thirds of my daily dose! It is not uncommon for addicts to sit around taking hit after hit for hours!

The devil is truly in the dose. A small glass of wine with dinner has been found to healthy, yet we all know that chronic, high dose ingestion of alcohol is disastrous to one's physical and mental health. Methamphetamine use is likely somewhat similiar.

tambourine-man
12-08-11, 04:39 PM
I picked up a month's supply of Desoxyn today (180 pills). It cost $450 for the generic!!!!

There has to be some kind of assistance available. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

cillianred
12-08-11, 05:36 PM
Let's face it guys, improved concentration is not the only reason most of us take stimulants. These drugs don't just treat our attention problems. They give us pep, boost our self-esteem, relieve our depression, and motivate us to be successful. They get us up in the morning and get us through the day. This is our dirty little secret. In a world where taking a pill to feel better is frowned upon, we have to pretend that our medications don't make us feel "good."

Guess what? My meds make me feel good! I like taking them! Is that a sin? Must I pretend that I hate taking a pill that improves my life and makes me happy? A pill that has, quite literally, saved me?


Yeah, you're right. Although, a lot of us might not know better at first. When I first switched to Vyvanse in 2010, I assumed the effects would be a smoother, long-lasting Adderall XR. Obviously that's not the case.

My experience from Adderall -> Vyv. has been exactly like your Dex.-> Desoxyn transition. More eating, sleeping, etc. Unfortunately I've taken Adderall for so long my brain is saying "this is different, but that means it's not working."

I sometimes wish my childhood pdoc had just kept me on Ritalin.

tambourine-man
12-08-11, 09:02 PM
I decided to do a little Pepsi challenge today. I took a dose of Dexedrine in place of my second Desoxyn dose.

My impression has not changed. Dexedrine is a very intense and edgy experience compared with Desoxyn, but still considerably smoother than Adderall. Both Dexedrine and Adderall feel significantly stronger than Desoxyn, in my experience. Desoxyn is more effective dose per dose, but Dexedrine and Adderall are far more stimulating.

Desoxyn is definitely the Rolls Royce of pharmaceutical stimulants. Dexedrine is probably a BMW. Adderall is something fast, fierce and sporty that would appear on a poster in a high school boy's room.

Hope that makes sense.

Bouncingoffwall
12-08-11, 09:12 PM
Desoxyn is definitely the Rolls Royce of pharmaceutical stimulants. Dexedrine is probably a BMW. Adderall is something fast, fierce and sporty that would appear on a poster in a high school boy's room.

Hope that makes sense.

LOL, a funny comparison but a pretty accurate one.

"Fast Times at Adderall High."

Kimmy1
12-08-11, 09:18 PM
You guys crack me up!
I consider myself lucky to get Ritalin 20 mg bid right now.

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20111208/NEWS01/112080366/-1/NLETTER01/Families-struggling-with-ADHD-medication-shortage?source=nletter-news
(http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113344&page=2)

Kimmy1
12-08-11, 09:41 PM
This literature claims that a single hit of smoked street methamphetamine typically contains roughly 22mg! That is over two thirds of my daily dose! It is not uncommon for addicts to sit around taking hit after hit for hours!

The devil is truly in the dose. A small glass of wine with dinner has been found to healthy, yet we all know that chronic, high dose ingestion of alcohol is disastrous to one's physical and mental health. Methamphetamine use is likely somewhat similiar.
Great points!
Just about anything can be abused.

Kimmy1
12-08-11, 09:51 PM
I decided to do a little Pepsi challenge today. I took a dose of Dexedrine in place of my second Desoxyn dose.

My impression has not changed. Dexedrine is a very intense and edgy experience compared with Desoxyn, but still considerably smoother than Adderall. Both Dexedrine and Adderall feel significantly stronger than Desoxyn, in my experience. Desoxyn is more effective dose per dose, but Dexedrine and Adderall are far more stimulating.

Desoxyn is definitely the Rolls Royce of pharmaceutical stimulants. Dexedrine is probably a BMW. Adderall is something fast, fierce and sporty that would appear on a poster in a high school boy's room.

Hope that makes sense.
I read some descriptions comparing the various amphetamines. I have no idea what happened to the book where I read this. It wasn't Facts and Comparisons though.
Methamphetamine was described as "longer lasting" and "stronger. "
You see to conform that it lasts longer.
I'm not sure about the issue of strength though.

tambourine-man
12-08-11, 09:59 PM
I read some descriptions comparing the various amphetamines. I have no idea what happened to the book where I read this. It wasn't Facts and Comparisons though.
Methamphetamine was described as "longer lasting" and "stronger. "
You see to conform that it lasts longer.
I'm not sure about the issue of strength though.

It isn't stronger or weaker. Desoxyn does not feel like a stronger version of Dexedrine. Not at all. It isn't that simple.

Desoxyn improves focus and elevates mood at lower doses than Dexedrine, but 5mg of Dexedrine will have you more motivated, awake, and "wired" than 10mg of Desoxyn.

Basically, Desoxyn is stronger in all the areas it should be stronger, and none of the areas it shouldn't.

Kimmy1
12-08-11, 10:27 PM
LOL! You stole the words right out of my mouth!
I have never tried Desoxyn.
Perhaps this so-called "shortage" on the other meds may prove to be in our favor!??

befitnessnow
12-09-11, 05:39 AM
Hey tambourine-man,

Thank you for posting this journal, I really appreciate it. Haha other than our differences on Sandoz/Barr Adderall, most of everything you write on these forums I can either understand or relate to in some way. Hell, I even referenced a few of your posts to my Doc the other day.

Stimulants are one of two medications that help with my symptoms in one pill; Anxiety, bouts of Depression and of course ADD/PI. I can never focus, I have extreme racing thoughts, if not intrusive at times, it's impossible for me to organize, etc. The other med which eradicates these issues is irrelevant since it is not a stimulant. Anyways, I was getting so sick of Adderall not being in stock or taking weeks to get some that after I read this journal on Monday, I went to my weekly appointment with my doc on Wed and asked if I could try Desoxyn. Until this thread, I was under the impression is was (nearly) pure PNS stimulation, so I never bothered to educate myself about it and little information is available anyways. My doc was perfectly fine with it, granted, we have a great doctor/patient relationship and he trusts me.

I do have to start on 5mg 2x a day though, whereas with Adderall I was taking 10mg 4x daily. It may seem like a lot but I process the stuff very quickly and if timed correctly, there isn't much of a high/low during the day. I strongly dislike XR, as well. My doc has no problem increasing to whatever dose is needed (of Dexosyn), if it does in fact work out but since it's a new med, he still wants to play it safe, as do I.

I do react very different to stimulants in one way though, which makes trying Desoxyn very interesting. Dexedrine puts me to sleep. I was only on it for a week but I was so tired, I switched back to Adderall. Even Adderall can make me quite tired and since Insomnia and tiredness are already an issue (these were issues long before I ever tried stimulants), it is Adderal's biggest side-effect for me, next to elevated BP. It makes me tired but raises my BP... :rolleyes:

So according to your journal, lol Desoxyn might in fact prove to be a sleep-aid for me. If I get the relief of effects that I am hoping for, as described earlier, I can live without a "kick" from the Dexoxyn though. In theory, since it lacks less (if any) PNS stimulation, it should also help keep my BP down too, which would be great. Amazing actually.

I'm starting tomorrow but only on 5mg 2x daily, so it may take awhile to figure out how well this medication works for me and I won't turn your journal into mine during the process! Haha. I just wanted to thank you, as I wouldn't of considered Desoxyn without this thread, and to give some background information in case I come back at some point to let you know how it goes for me!

I'm glad that Dexosyn is working out so well for you and hope that it continues to. Best of luck and I look forward to continue reading your journal.

EDIT: I wanted to add that the generic I received is by Mylan, is the company (I can't recall the name) you mentioned your Desoxyn's were made by owned by Mylan or vise versa?

tambourine-man
12-09-11, 11:21 AM
@befitnessnow,

Please let me know how you respond. I will warn you though, your initial dose will most likely be far too low after the dose of Adderall you were taking. You will probably feel very sleepy and unmedicated. Don't judge Desoxyn at this dose. Give yourself plenty of time to adjust and titrate up. You will likely notice benefits at 10mg, but I can't guarantee it.

Be patient. Good things come to those who wait.

P.S. I am, indeed, taking Mylan brand. I have never tried name brand but Mylan is quite satisfactory.

tambourine-man
12-11-11, 04:11 PM
@Befitnessnow: Can you give us an update yet?

Galactica75
12-12-11, 02:32 AM
K I can't find the wikipedia article that says "methamphetamine is neurotoxic, but xyz is not." I thought it was dex, but looking it up said that dex is neurotoxic at pharmaceutical levels too. So I guess in the long run by taking these meds, we're damaging ourselves. :(

All aphematamines can be neurotoxic, but once again it depends on the dossing as relax21 pointed out. If your concerned about neurodegeneration then Ritalin is probably your only option.
Ultimately it comes down to the question; are the risks worth the benefits? Most people with debilitating conditions would probably say Yes. While people with very mild conditions would probably say no if they understood the all risks they might exposing themselves to.

Excerpt from adderall xr guide: http://www.shirecanada.com/en/shire-canada/AXR_M_090930_En.pdf

http://i.imgur.com/0PDie.png

tambourine-man
12-12-11, 06:56 PM
Another helpful Desoxyn link...

http://everything.explained.at/Desoxyn/


I'm torn between wanting to help educate the public and reduce the hysteria associated with this particular medication, and wanting to make sure everyone keeps their hands off it so it isn't impacted by shortages.

SnareDrumzZz
12-15-11, 05:19 PM
What are you talking about? People will get any medication by any means if they want it. Your information is not going to help people get scripts. If you really think you have a key to give everyone that will help them get Desoxyn you are in psychosis. Badly.

Desoxyn is the better mellow less side effect shock stimulant doctors are afraid to prescribe.

Dexedrine isn't the easiest getting either and is a calmer version of Adderall for most.

Adderall is just for those who Need a push to focus.


All of these medications are the holy grail.

tambourine-man
12-15-11, 09:09 PM
What are you talking about? People will get any medication by any means if they want it. Your information is not going to help people get scripts. If you really think you have a key to give everyone that will help them get Desoxyn you are in psychosis. Badly.

Desoxyn is the better mellow less side effect shock stimulant doctors are afraid to prescribe.

Dexedrine isn't the easiest getting either and is a calmer version of Adderall for most.

Adderall is just for those who Need a push to focus.


All of these medications are the holy grail.

I agree with you. I've said, essentially, the same thing throughout this thread. Perhaps you failed to thoroughly read the thread.

Refer to this post all the way back on page three...


So is Desoxyn the holy grail?

That depends on your definition of holy grail. Is is the most powerful, addictive, dangerous, and euphoric of all stimulants? Um... no. Not in my experience and certainly not at therapeutic doses. Is it a very effective med with the fewest possible side-effects that happens to be unjustly stigmatized and rarely prescribed? Absolutely.

In all honesty, I like Dexedrine better, but my body and mind greatly prefer Desoxyn.

Desoxyn is the most easily abused stimulant for the same reasons that it should be prescribed more often - it is without the physical and mental side-effects of other stimulants. If you're going to abuse large doses of a stimulant, you want to go with the one that your body and mind will least regret. Why should we have to put up with unnecessary side-effects just because the junkies don't want to? Desoxyn proves that many of the common side-effects complained about on these boards are nothing less than a deterrent to those who would take doses far larger than those prescribed in order to get high.

I just can't get over the unbelievable irony of prescription methamphetamine, the most gentle, subtle, and physically forgiving of all stimulants I have taken.

Or this one on page seven...

I decided to do a little Pepsi challenge today. I took a dose of Dexedrine in place of my second Desoxyn dose.

My impression has not changed. Dexedrine is a very intense and edgy experience compared with Desoxyn, but still considerably smoother than Adderall. Both Dexedrine and Adderall feel significantly stronger than Desoxyn, in my experience. Desoxyn is more effective dose per dose, but Dexedrine and Adderall are far more stimulating.

Desoxyn is definitely the Rolls Royce of pharmaceutical stimulants. Dexedrine is probably a BMW. Adderall is something fast, fierce and sporty that would appear on a poster in a high school boy's room.

Hope that makes sense.

Ameliese
12-16-11, 02:52 AM
I decided to do a little Pepsi challenge today. I took a dose of Dexedrine in place of my second Desoxyn dose.

My impression has not changed. Dexedrine is a very intense and edgy experience compared with Desoxyn, but still considerably smoother than Adderall. Both Dexedrine and Adderall feel significantly stronger than Desoxyn, in my experience. Desoxyn is more effective dose per dose, but Dexedrine and Adderall are far more stimulating.

Desoxyn is definitely the Rolls Royce of pharmaceutical stimulants. Dexedrine is probably a BMW. Adderall is something fast, fierce and sporty that would appear on a poster in a high school boy's room.

Hope that makes sense.

tambourine-man,

Your face looks familiar, are you on Wrongplanet as well?

I can't believe you got prescribed Desoxyn (methamphetamine) for your AS, unless you also have ADHD.

From what I've read, pharmaceutical methamphetamine has even more CNS stimulation and less PNS stimulation compared to dexamphetamine, but because of widespread abuse of the illicitly synthesized kind in numerous Western countries (including America), access to Desoxyn is extremely restricted and only reserved for the most hardcore cases of ADHD and narcolepsy... :eek:

tambourine-man
12-16-11, 12:19 PM
tambourine-man,

Your face looks familiar, are you on Wrongplanet as well?

I can't believe you got prescribed Desoxyn (methamphetamine) for your AS, unless you also have ADHD.

From what I've read, pharmaceutical methamphetamine has even more CNS stimulation and less PNS stimulation compared to dexamphetamine, but because of widespread abuse of the illicitly synthesized kind in numerous Western countries (including America), access to Desoxyn is extremely restricted and only reserved for the most hardcore cases of ADHD and narcolepsy... :eek:

Yep, I'm a columnist on Wrong Planet. I have ADHD as well, though it is hard to tell where one diagnosis ends and the other begins.

I just asked for Desoxyn. I didn't beg or manipulate my way to script. I just asked for one.

tambourine-man
12-16-11, 11:48 PM
I will note that I am currently taking 15mg twice daily. Three doses would seem to be ideal in theory, but it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

I don't want to go over 30mg a day. Doses under 10mg are very sedating. This may be due to Serotonin release.

15mg is spot on, but I don't think a third 15mg dose would prove beneficial. I'm not quite certain why, but Desoxyn just seems to be more effective when dosed twice daily.

Relax21, can you offer an explanation for this phenomenon?

PositivelyPositive
12-17-11, 01:27 AM
First off thanks for sharing your experience! I have a question for you and anyone following or reading this thread or post. I have adhd, but also have narcolepsy. The narcolepsy adds a lot of sleepiness on top of adhd. I am sure my p-doc would prescribe me Desoxyn, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure it would take care of the narcolepsy. The smoothness you talk about tambourine-man sounds very nice. The focus while also being calm, awesome. Honestly, I have to have something with a great deal of "hold my eyes open" strength. I'm wondering if anyone reading this has narcolepsy and experience with Desoxyn. I'm curious about what your opinion(s) and anyone else's also. I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm just sure many read this and it is hard to find out first hand experience about Desoxyn....and especially in use for narcolepsy. Thanks again t-man! I'm glad things are going good for you.

tambourine-man
12-17-11, 01:51 AM
First off thanks for sharing your experience! I have a question for you and anyone following or reading this thread or post. I have adhd, but also have narcolepsy. The narcolepsy adds a lot of sleepiness on top of adhd. I am sure my p-doc would prescribe me Desoxyn, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure it would take care of the narcolepsy. The smoothness you talk about tambourine-man sounds very nice. The focus while also being calm, awesome. Honestly, I have to have something with a great deal of "hold my eyes open" strength. I'm wondering if anyone reading this has narcolepsy and experience with Desoxyn. I'm curious about what your opinion(s) and anyone else's also. I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm just sure many read this and it is hard to find out first hand experience about Desoxyn....and especially in use for narcolepsy. Thanks again t-man! I'm glad things are going good for you.


I don't have narcolepsy so someone else will have to chime in here, but I'm inclined to say that Desoxyn is, unfortunately, not your best bet. If you are looking for a energizing effect, Adderall is more up your alley.

Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.

LanCo Rider
12-17-11, 03:19 PM
Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.

Glad I'm not using Adderall then! I just took my morning dose of Dex (20 mg) and damn this has me all amped up. ugh

PositivelyPositive
12-17-11, 04:46 PM
I don't have narcolepsy so someone else will have to chime in here, but I'm inclined to say that Desoxyn is, unfortunately, not your best bet. If you are looking for a energizing effect, Adderall is more up your alley.

Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.

Adderall is what I'm prescribed right now. It was dexedrine, until the shortage. The dexedrine didn't make me as anxious, however the pns stimulation of adderall helps keep my eyes open, literally. Thanks for your outlook to my question. By the way, I was thinking if Desoxyn did work it would take considerably more because of my narcolepsy and I called about the prices. EXPENSIVE!

relax21
12-17-11, 09:54 PM
By the way, I was thinking if Desoxyn did work it would take considerably more because of my narcolepsy and I called about the prices. EXPENSIVE!

To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.

tambourine-man
12-17-11, 11:44 PM
To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.

Thanks! Excellent answer! Desoxyn is a tricky medication. I've never taken more than 15mg at a time, but I've noticed a substantial difference between a 10mg dose and a 15mg dose.

At 10mg I find Desoxyn very sedating. At 15mg it becomes much more stimulating. I would assume it would become far more stimulating than a comparable dose of Dexedrine at doses over those commonly prescribed. However, like relax21 said, such high doses just aren't feasible.

befitnessnow
12-18-11, 12:00 AM
@Befitnessnow: Can you give us an update yet?

Sorry for the delay brother. I had an issue last week which prevented me from feeling comfortable starting the Dexosyn until my next appointment which was on Wednesday, so I have only had 3 days on 5mg 2x daily as of today.

Reading my previous post makes it sound as if I just straight up switched from Adderall to Desoxyn but it was actually like 2 months ago that I stopped taking Adderall due to frustration of not being able to get my scripts filled and was using another medication to help me out. Knowing Adderall is still in "shortage" and wanting to get back on stimulants is what made me make the decision to use Dexosyn (well, and this journal of course) and like you tambourine-man, I just simply asked my doctor. He doesn't care about stigma, he just cares about finding what works best.

That said, having a few months break made it a little bit easier to feel the subtle effects of Desoxyn even at this small dose. The best way I can compare it right now is with my first Adderall experience and now my first Desoxyn experience...

The first time I tried Adderall, it was only 5mg too and definitely had a euphoric rush. Yeah, the high that comes with starting an amphetamine for the first few days. But, it also hit me hard and left me even harder. About 3 1/2 hours after taking it, I just got hit with a fierce tiredness and by 4 hours later, my head was pounding. After a few weeks, those side effects lessened but with Adderall there is always a noticeable "kick in" and an abrupt stop of it's effects unless I time my 4x daily doses perfectly. This is only a comparison but it's like Xanax to anxiety, hits you hard and makes things much better but leaves even harder, making things worse if you aren't on the exactly correct dose for yourself. I do like Adderall though, don't get me wrong, it's just a fickle medication.

Now, first dose of 5mg Desoxyn...

Around 15 minutes I felt like maybe there was a very subtle "kick in" but couldn't really tell, I just kept checking the time every 10 or 15 minutes until about an hour later when I noticed that my head was just... Clear. As in, my racing thoughts were gone. I'm not really sure when this happened but it did. Total anxiety relief too, it was actually the best side effect of that first dose since I had no real tasks at hand to accomplish but a lot of my anxiety is caused by racing (sometimes intrusive) thoughts, inability to focus & other ADD related issues. I just felt... Good. I know that word can be subjective but it's the only way I can describe it. The best part was I had a very solid relief of anxiety and ability to focus on one thought at a time for about 4 hours and I didn't even really feel it leaving, it just kind of slowly did it on it's own. It was not abrupt by any means. Zero jitters or any other physical stimulation too.

Unfortunately though, even two days later, I would say the anxiety relief has went down to about 3 hours per dose and I am not having much relief with the inability to focus/clear my thoughts unless I truly force myself but even then, it's maybe 2 hours that I notice a little extra help from the Dexosyn.

This is what I expected though, a great first dose and then very mediocre doses after that because of how low the dosage is. I am completely comfortable going from 5mg 2x daily to either 10mg 3x daily or 15mg 2x daily because of how extremely subtle the 5mg is. Also worth noting, even on 5mg doses of Adderall, my BP raises a bit. I have to use a Beta Blocker sometimes on my Adderall dose because of this and the fact that I'm 26 years old and need a BP medication to counteract the effects of a medication that helps me so much really bothers me but doesn't quite warrant not using it, in my opinion. So far on Dexosyn, my BP has been unaffected at all and I'm only using a natural BP supplement called PeptACE.

My overall feelings:

If I find the right dose, I think I will stick with this medication. Although I like having a physical boost/kick-start, I primarily need the CNS stimulation because that is the part that helps my anxiety and my ADD. If my anxiety is lowered enough, it helps my insomnia and sleep patterns which in turns helps my natural energy. So if those things start getting better, I won't really care about the a physical boost from my medication. Even on this low dose, I can feel/notice the (nearly) pure CNS stimulation and lack of any PNS stimulation. I can't quite tell yet but I feel like the CNS stimulation is stronger than Dexedrine too.

So if I can get the CNS stimulation that I had the first day or close to it and find a dose that is consistent, I will without a doubt stick with Desoxyn. Better stimulation where I need it and from what I can tell so far, no side effects. I honestly couldn't ask for more.

When I up the dose that is when I will really know where Desoxyn stands but I have a really good feeling about it. This might seem like a long review for such a small dose but I want to be a thorough as possible so I can really compare how things are going after the dose bump.

PositivelyPositive
12-18-11, 12:22 AM
To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.

If it didn't cost so much, I would at least try. Even at a higher dose. It would be nice to not have any side effects such as amphetamines do. tambourine-man and others comments about the smoothness sounds nice. I have to take a high daily dose of adderall (120mg). It causes anxiety through the day and the end of the day, when I stop taking it is RUFF! Thanks relax21 for the info you added!

tambourine-man
12-18-11, 02:23 AM
If I find the right dose, I think I will stick with this medication. Although I like having a physical boost/kick-start, I primarily need the CNS stimulation because that is the part that helps my anxiety and my ADD. If my anxiety is lowered enough, it helps my insomnia and sleep patterns which in turns helps my natural energy. So if those things start getting better, I won't really care about the a physical boost from my medication. Even on this low dose, I can feel/notice the (nearly) pure CNS stimulation and lack of any PNS stimulation. I can't quite tell yet but I feel like the CNS stimulation is stronger than Dexedrine too.

So if I can get the CNS stimulation that I had the first day or close to it and find a dose that is consistent, I will without a doubt stick with Desoxyn. Better stimulation where I need it and from what I can tell so far, no side effects. I honestly couldn't ask for more.

When I up the dose that is when I will really know where Desoxyn stands but I have a really good feeling about it. This might seem like a long review for such a small dose but I want to be a thorough as possible so I can really compare how things are going after the dose bump.

This is tricky part with any stimulant, but I must say that I find it particularly tricky with Desoxyn. I still need three doses of Desoxyn to get me through the day, but it is very difficult to find the proper dose and schedule.

Like I said, Desoxyn is very sedating at 10mg or less. 15mg twice daily works perfectly while it is working, but I find I'm left feeling very restless, scatterbrained, and, well, ADHD for the last third of the day.

10mg three times per day is odd. 10mg is quite effective in the morning, a bit too sedating in the afternoon, and comparatively jittery in the evening (still not nearly as jittery as Dexedrine or Adderall).

Any suggestions folks?

I'm pretty much determined not to go above 30mg. I'm convinced that I can find a way to make this work without raising the dose.
At the correct dose, Desoxyn is THE superior stimulant. Now I just have to get my schedule all worked out.

befitnessnow
12-18-11, 10:20 PM
This is tricky part with any stimulant, but I must say that I find it particularly tricky with Desoxyn. I still need three doses of Desoxyn to get me through the day, but it is very difficult to find the proper dose and schedule.

Like I said, Desoxyn is very sedating at 10mg or less. 15mg twice daily works perfectly while it is working, but I find I'm left feeling very restless, scatterbrained, and, well, ADHD for the last third of the day.

10mg three times per day is odd. 10mg is quite effective in the morning, a bit too sedating in the afternoon, and comparatively jittery in the evening (still not nearly as jittery as Dexedrine or Adderall).

Any suggestions folks?

I'm pretty much determined not to go above 30mg. I'm convinced that I can find a way to make this work without raising the dose.
At the correct dose, Desoxyn is THE superior stimulant. Now I just have to get my schedule all worked out.

I couldn't agree more, Adderall took me a few months to find the right dose and after everything I read here, I was so happy it only took that long. Adderall was/is odd for though because almost any instant release med (or herb or any other drug) I've ever used, I have used it 3x daily, so that fourth one feels somewhat out of place even though I needed it for full relief from the time I got up until about 5 hours before bed.

It's hard to tell but I definitely think Dexosyn will last longer than Adderall, especially when I up the dose. I'm hoping that 10mg is the correct dose for me and I could see myself dosing 3x daily but obviously I have a lot of trial and error to do. Because my BP has not raised at all (it's actually better than ever) and after my appointment on Monday I won't be able to see my Doc for almost two weeks, I think I will ask him if I can experiment with 10mg 3x daily. I'm sure he would be ok with me trying 15mg twice daily though too or however I wanted to play with the dosing, as long as my BP stays within a healthy range.

I am comfortable with a 3x daily dosing schedule but do agree that twice would be ideal. I guess it just depends on the effects of 10mg versus 15mg. If I get much more relief using 15mg but only use it twice, I would be fine with that since it has a very gradual way of leaving my system but if the effects aren't greatly better than 10mg 3x daily, I would probably just stick with that. I'm getting a head of myself though :rolleyes:

Is your reason for not wanting to go over 30mg/daily a personal choice or something your Doc wouldn't really want to do? I'm just curious because it sounds like 15mg is your spot but that you really do not want to go over 30mg. I definitely understand having personal limitations with medications.

Have you noticed, even in the slightest, any physical effects at all so far?

Cocobee
12-18-11, 11:17 PM
No luck so far. : (

Which is way too bad, because I've had a lot of luck with Desoxyn. 10mg 3x a day is absolutely perfect. Now that I've adjusted a bit more I'm able to experience this medication's full potential.

It seems I've climbed the stimulant ladder to the very top, and I've been more and more impressed with each new medication.

At this point I would rank them in this order...

1. Desoxyn
2. Dexedrine IR
3. Sandoz Adderall IR
4. Barr Adderall IR
5. Vyvanse
6. Corepharma Adderall IR

All methylphenidate products are equally awful for me. I haven't tried Focalin though. The above list is ordered based on greatest therapeutic benefit and least side-effects. It would be different if I was judging their motivating effects. Adderall is by far the most motivating.

Just curious T-man why do you have vyvanse ranked toward the bottom when it metabolizes into dextroamphetamine which is toward the top of your list? Thanks in advance.

tambourine-man
12-19-11, 12:36 AM
Just curious T-man why do you have vyvanse ranked toward the bottom when it metabolizes into dextroamphetamine which is toward the top of your list? Thanks in advance.

Vyvanse was truly wonderful... for about a month. Vyvanse became incredibly inconsistent for me. Then it wasn't working at all and I became exhausted and depressed.

I have yet to find an XR medication that my body metabolizes properly.

tambourine-man
12-19-11, 12:46 AM
I couldn't agree more, Adderall took me a few months to find the right dose and after everything I read here, I was so happy it only took that long. Adderall was/is odd for though because almost any instant release med (or herb or any other drug) I've ever used, I have used it 3x daily, so that fourth one feels somewhat out of place even though I needed it for full relief from the time I got up until about 5 hours before bed.

It's hard to tell but I definitely think Dexosyn will last longer than Adderall, especially when I up the dose. I'm hoping that 10mg is the correct dose for me and I could see myself dosing 3x daily but obviously I have a lot of trial and error to do. Because my BP has not raised at all (it's actually better than ever) and after my appointment on Monday I won't be able to see my Doc for almost two weeks, I think I will ask him if I can experiment with 10mg 3x daily. I'm sure he would be ok with me trying 15mg twice daily though too or however I wanted to play with the dosing, as long as my BP stays within a healthy range.

I am comfortable with a 3x daily dosing schedule but do agree that twice would be ideal. I guess it just depends on the effects of 10mg versus 15mg. If I get much more relief using 15mg but only use it twice, I would be fine with that since it has a very gradual way of leaving my system but if the effects aren't greatly better than 10mg 3x daily, I would probably just stick with that. I'm getting a head of myself though :rolleyes:

Is your reason for not wanting to go over 30mg/daily a personal choice or something your Doc wouldn't really want to do? I'm just curious because it sounds like 15mg is your spot but that you really do not want to go over 30mg. I definitely understand having personal limitations with medications.

Have you noticed, even in the slightest, any physical effects at all so far?

I don't want to increase the dose because Desoxyn is EXPENSIVE.

As much as I love this medication, it really isn't worth the cost at the dose I need. A month's supply of my current dose costs $500!

Desoxyn is remarkably smooth, gentle, and effective, but I will likely switch back to Adderall or Dexedrine if I can't find some way to make it more affordable.

I was paying $60 a month for Adderall or Dexedrine. Yes, Desoxyn is better, but is it that much better?

I will be sad if I have to switch back, but I have to be realistic. As much as I would love to see this medication become more available and affordable, the unfortunate truth is that... well, it just isn't.

This is precisely the reason that Desoxyn is the caviar of stimulants - it is rare, classy, and ridiculously overpriced. Sadly, it is also the most effective option. I was doing quite well on both Adderall and Dexedrine for a fraction of cost.

But... I want to keep my Desoxyn. : (

Mister Marcinko
12-19-11, 02:16 AM
I have two questions for you kind sir regarding desoxyn. (btw I'm currently on d-amp 10-30 ir a day).

1)I have had some difficulty with sleep on d-amp but have had the blessing
To be rx restoril ( a benzodiazepine) to aid me to crash a lil softer in the evening and ease the come down which has been moderately difficult. The restoril has aided me to atleast sleep and induce peacefulness but on to how this is relevant to my question. How is sleep even feasible on desoxyn?

2) Being on Dexedrine in know I have put my dopamine and norepinephrine transmitters at risk for down regulation and possible damage as well as the inevitable harsh recovery of the balance of these mechanisms if i chose not to continue w/ meds; I have atleast seratonin to rely on as d-amp has negligible impact on this transmitter. This is not the case with desoxyn as it has more involvement with seratonin. How do you deal with the come down of desoxyn I can only imagine how bad it might be granted it appears to be a more gradual decline than d-amp?

Thanks for any input t-dog

befitnessnow
12-19-11, 04:33 AM
I don't want to increase the dose because Desoxyn is EXPENSIVE.

As much as I love this medication, it really isn't worth the cost at the dose I need. A month's supply of my current dose costs $500!

Wow, that is absolutely absurd!!! I can't believe a generic medication costs that much! That honestly blows my mind.

I'm lucky to have insurance, so it was $5 for 14 pills but now that I look at the pamphlet it would have been $55.99 without insurance, which if I was using 30mg a day without insurance, a month supply would cost roughly $655 :eek:

I don't blame you, there's a point where cost isn't worth effects but it's disgusting to me that if you found your (closest thing to a) perfect medication, you would have to stop because of Pharma greed! That seriously disgusts me :mad:

So even if it wasn't this elusive, barely ever prescribed medication, it would still be out of grasp for most people due to it's insane cost. No wonder it's not heard of much.

tambourine-man
12-19-11, 10:53 AM
I have two questions for you kind sir regarding desoxyn. (btw I'm currently on d-amp 10-30 ir a day).

1)I have had some difficulty with sleep on d-amp but have had the blessing
To be rx restoril ( a benzodiazepine) to aid me to crash a lil softer in the evening and ease the come down which has been moderately difficult. The restoril has aided me to atleast sleep and induce peacefulness but on to how this is relevant to my question. How is sleep even feasible on desoxyn?

2) Being on Dexedrine in know I have put my dopamine and norepinephrine transmitters at risk for down regulation and possible damage as well as the inevitable harsh recovery of the balance of these mechanisms if i chose not to continue w/ meds; I have atleast seratonin to rely on as d-amp has negligible impact on this transmitter. This is not the case with desoxyn as it has more involvement with seratonin. How do you deal with the come down of desoxyn I can only imagine how bad it might be granted it appears to be a more gradual decline than d-amp?

Thanks for any input t-dog

I must be weird. I can take 15mg of Desoxyn and lay down for a nice nap. I could do the same thing on Dexedrine. I don't experience crashes.

I will say Desoxyn would probably be less likely to make you crash and easier to get to sleep on.

Cocobee
12-19-11, 02:01 PM
@ tambourine-man, Would you say that desoxyn is smoother than vyvanse? I'm currently taking vyvanse and would say that it is alot smoother than the concerta I was taking, almost to the point it may be too smooth if that makes any sense. I would really like to try desoxyn but just don't know if it would last as long a vyvanse. Could you give some comparisons between vyvanse and desoxyn from your experience?

tambourine-man
12-19-11, 04:03 PM
@ tambourine-man, Would you say that desoxyn is smoother than vyvanse? I'm currently taking vyvanse and would say that it is alot smoother than the concerta I was taking, almost to the point it may be too smooth if that makes any sense. I would really like to try desoxyn but just don't know if it would last as long a vyvanse. Could you give some comparisons between vyvanse and desoxyn from your experience?

Desoxyn is smoother than Vyvanse. It is undoubtedly smoother than any other stimulant I've tried. Is this a good thing?

Well, that all depends. Adderall made me a productive robot... but sometimes I miss that state of mind. Yes, my personality is a bit diminished, but life is certainly easier.

Desoxyn feels closer to Vyvanse than Dexedrine, but is easier to control.

My issues with Desoxyn have nothing to do with the medication itself, but the difficulty of paying for it.

Like any other medication, the dose of Desoxyn has to be just right. I need three doses a day, but am currently taking two because anything less than 15mg is too sedating to get anything done. 15-20mg is absolutely perfect, but I can't seem to split my prescribed amount into three effective doses.

As I mentioned, Desoxyn is just far too expensive to increase my dose. I'm considering taking Dexedrine or Adderall in the morning and afternoon, but keeping Desoxyn for the evening when I am more inclined to relax. I don't know if my doctor would go for this, but it would certainly be more affordable and I wouldn't have to give up on the Desoxyn completely.

Cocobee
12-19-11, 04:24 PM
I understand that it would be a challange if you didn't have insurance which I see you currently don't. I just don't like the idea of having to take several pills throughout the course of the day. That's just me. I think I may just stick to what I'm currently taking now because I see no point in fixing something that isn't broke. In your case you're having to change different meds because of the shortages that we're all aware of. Thanks for keeping your journal and this thread going as I learn something new everyday from it.

tambourine-man
12-19-11, 11:55 PM
I collect vintage psychiatric pharmaceutical ads (yes, I know, I have odd fixations). I thought you guys might find this interesting...

Here is a photo of some of the stimulant ads in my collection. To the right, you will see an ad for Desoxyn (you may also notice ads for Dexedrine, Dexamyl, and a vintage Benzedrine inhaler)...

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g445/Tambourine-Man/Amphetamines-1.jpg



Among the information in the ad is this paragraph...

SMALLER DOSAGE, LONGER EFFECT - It is generally agreed that d-desoxyephedrine, milligram for milligram, is somewhat more potent than amphetamine, so the stimulation desired is achieved with a smaller dose, the onset of effect is more rapid, and the duration longer.

Hmmm... Not much has changed.

tambourine-man
12-24-11, 02:32 PM
I posted this as a separate thread for maximum exposure, because I'm very interested in seeing what people think.


A great deal of research has led me to conclude that Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine) is, indeed, more likely to cause neurotoxicity at prescribed doses than other amphetamines.

Technically, Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) is the amphetamine with the lowest risk of neurotoxicity. Why? Because it induces less Norepinephrine agonism than Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine mixed salts) and less Serotonin agonism than Desoxyn. Dopamine agonism does not seem to be nearly as harmful. Our brains are more likely to repair dimished dopamine than serotonin.

Methylphenidate is strictly a reuptake inhibitor, which has actually been found to be neuroprotective. I have read that taking a dose of Methylphenidate after your amphetamine will help to prevent potential amphetamine induced neurotoxicity.

Desoxyn's higher potential for neurotoxicity seems to be directly related to it's Serotonin agonism. Taking methylphenidate (a DNRI) after Desoxyn will help to prevent the depletion of dopamine. So...

I'm wondering if taking an SSRI (like Celexa, which I take currently) helps to prevent any potential neurotoxicity caused by Desoxyn's serotonin agonism. Will an SSRI have neuroprotective effects similar to those which methylphenidate has, only with serotonin?

Anyone know?

tambourine-man
12-24-11, 03:02 PM
Oops, I meant antagonist in all the places I used agonist. Also, I've seen no evidence that therapeutic doses of Desoxyn are significantly neurotoxic, but that the possibility of neurotoxicity is much higher than with other amphetamines.

tambourine-man
12-25-11, 12:41 PM
I've been asked to provide more detailed information on the abuse potential of Desoxyn.

Due to it's uniquely high affinity for dopamine and serotonin, and comparatively low affinity for norepinephrine, methamphetamine is remarkably tolerable in euphoric doses, making it a far more desirable drug of abuse than amphetamine or dextroamphetamine. However, one must remember than Desoxyn is only available in 5mg doses. The average user of illegally manufactured methamphetamine will typically ingest 500mg or more in single sitting, even in a single dose when administered intravenously.

The same uniquely gentle effects which make methamphetamine more tolerable in euphoria inducing doses also make it far less stimulating than amphetamine or dextroamphetamine in therapeutic doses. Desoxyn is very subtle.

10mg of Adderall or Dexedrine will provide greater subjective stimulation than 10mg of Desoxyn. At therapeutic doses, Desoxyn has a uniquely sedating effect. However, as the dose increases, Desoxyn's recreational value rapidly outshines that of any other prescription stimulant. 60 mg of Adderall or Dexedrine will likely prove more uncomfortable than euphoric for a non-tolerant user. 60mg of Desoxyn will be outrageously euphoric for nearly any user, with significantly less unwanted PNS stimulation to ruin the experience.

Desoxyn, however, is rarely prescribed, very expensive, and available only in 5mg dose. A seasoned speed freak would likely require 100 or more Desoxyn tablets daily. Contrary to popular belief, Desoxyn is likely less pure than much street methamphetamine, though it is doubtlessly cleaner. Desoxyn tablets are largely composed of binders and fillers. When crushed, Desoxyn yields a large pile of powder, very little of which is actually methamphetamine. By comparison, a piece of crystal methamphetamine no larger than a match head may contain several times the amount of methamphetamine found in a single Desoxyn tablet.

Naturally, this makes Desoxyn extremely difficult to abuse via insufflation, inhalation, or injection. Very few veteran methamphetamine addicts consume the drug orally. At roughly $300 per 100 generic tablets, prescription methamphetamine costs approximately six times more than illegally produced product. If you were an addict, would you pay six times more money for a far less recreational version of the same drug?

That said, if Desoxyn was widely available and produced in doses up to 30mg as Adderall is, it would doubtlessly be the most widely abused stimulant available by prescription.

Chemist1957
12-26-11, 02:02 AM
By adding the extra methyl group to the amphetamine molecule. The new molecule of methamphetamine develops a chiral center. This causes the molecule to become fixed in it atomic positioning. The molecule can now more easly fit into the binding site more tightly in the brain. Increasing it's biological activity.
This moecule was enginered during the second world war to have a stronger amphetamine effect for use in the military.

jdgeek
12-26-11, 03:47 PM
Thanks for this thread Tambourine-man. It fills an information void about desoxyn that I too find perplexing. After following it daily for about 3 weeks, I've setup an appt w/ my doc tomorrow to ask for the switch to desoxyn. I'm on adderall IR 15mg (once in the morning) and the side effects (anxiety, irritability, headaches) have just gotten too much. I really dread taking the stuff. I've also gained a considerable amount of weight on it (40 pounds) as I find myself constantly eating. Food seems to be the only thing that "smooths out" the come down, especially at nights. I really could care less about my weight (although I suppose I should keep an eye on it), but I am concerned that desoxyn might cut my appetite too much. I don't want to shrivel away. What has your experience been w/ appetite suppression? I am assuming when you first started desoxyn the effect was more dramitic (as was mine on adderall). However, I am hoping the appetite suppression effects normalize after a week or so. I'm very interested in your thoughts. Thanks again.

Keep0nkeepn0n
12-27-11, 05:29 AM
Thanks so much T-Man. This has been a wonderful read chalk full of useful information. In my years of treating ADD-PI, I have moved from Concerta -> Concerta + Ritalin -> Adderall IR + XR -> Focalin IR + XR -> Adderall -> Vyvanse -> With multi year break -> until about a month ago landing on Dexedrine IR 10 x3 daily (I had missed one too many doctors appointments and meetings and decided it was time to do something).

What a wonderful medication this is, finally something that gives me hope ADD medication isn't the work of the devil. Prior to dex all the other garbage caused huge anxiety, introversion, major mood swings, sweating, tinnitus, hard core crashes, insomnia, anger, and aggression and the desire to drink, a lot as they wore off.

Thankfully I no longer drink and this all seems so different with Dex, although not consistently. Occasionally the Dex will feel like Adderall with all the unpleasant baggage that made it unbearable. I suppose I should chalk it up to Barr and their manufacturing process.

You sound similar to myself. In your needs and benefits desired from stimulant therapy. Currently I'm on Klonopin for anxiety and the Dexedrine. That said with this shortage I'm terribly worried. Today took 5 hours and 8 pharmacies to find 82 of my 90 pill Rx.

I've read about Desoxyn for years and always had a desire to try it out if for no other reason than to put another notch on the belt. Are you still content with the medicine ? I desire, focus, working memory improvement, mild pro energetic effects, some drive but without the laser hyper focus that can lead me down all sorts of unproductive paths (I write and work in the field of Social Media) and most importantly I desire a medicine that doesn't inhibit my social abilities.

Even with the Dex at work I occasionally hear my old familiar Adderall voice, soft, hindered, apprehensive, and just plain lacking confidence.

With all that said, purely guessing, do you think this medicine might be of benefit to me ? I'm social, can speak fluently (when I can think), but mainly struggle with higher cognitive functions. I.e appointments, organization, memory retention in the short term, and accurately adjusting my behavior to the REAL amount of time I have to accomplish something, if you know what I mean.

Anyway you've inspired me and I think I would like to speak with my (very open) Dr. next visit about Desoxyn. When I'm clear headed, confident, and together I can move mountains, when I'm sweating, anxious, overwhelmed, and unorganized it's a mess. ;) Thanks for any and all input.

Oh ! And last but not least. Does the pharmacy have to order the medication specially for you ? I'm assuming yes but curious nonetheless. Also just for the sake of humor, what sort of looks do you receive when you roll up to the pharmacy with a Desoxyn script in hand ? Anything worth noting ? Thanks again !

tambourine-man
12-27-11, 04:12 PM
Thanks for all the kind words! I'm really glad this thread is turning into a one stop destination for Desoxyn information. I spent hours scrounging up the information included in this thread. It isn't easy to find...

Ok, lots of questions! Let me just break this down a bit.

Onset: Desoxyn has a very rapid onset. My first dose typically takes effect within five minutes. However, the onset is very subtle and gradual. You have to be very self-aware to notice much effect before the hour mark. Adderall and Dexedrine wake you up in the morning, which brings faster clarity. Desoxyn is the king of clarity, BUT you still have to fight through the early morning fog.

Duration: Desoxyn lasts about an hour longer than Dexedrine. The duration is comparable to Adderall. However, it is effective for the full five hours, without the peaks and valleys of other IR stimulants.

Appetite: My first daily dose of Desoxyn has a mildly anorectic effect. After that I have no problem eating.

Insominia: I must first state that I can sleep in the middle of the day on any stimulant. I have no trouble getting to sleep at night... if I want to. On Adderall I never wanted to sleep. If I was not constantly engaged in a productive activity I was very irritable. Desoxyn has the least impact on my sleep schedule.

Cons: Desoxyn is very rarely prescribed and extremely expensive. If you don't have an open minded physician and good insurance, it probably isn't worth the trouble. Also, Desoxyn can be difficult to dose because it only comes in 5mg tablets. Also, the slightly sedating effect will be undesirable to some. However, this effect also makes it ideal for those with co-morbid anxiety or OCD. Desoxyn is quite anxyolitic.

tambourine-man
01-05-12, 10:07 PM
Little Update:


I decided to keep 10mg of Desoxyn for the evenings, but take Adderall during the day to save money. I just don't think $500 for generic Desoxyn is at all cool... But I love my Desoxyn.

CheekyMonkey
01-05-12, 11:07 PM
Little Update:


I decided to keep 10mg of Desoxyn for the evenings, but take Adderall during the day to save money. I just don't think $500 for generic Desoxyn is at all cool... But I love my Desoxyn.

How's that working out so far? I hope you will be successful enough to be able to afford it soon!! :)

Yellow
01-06-12, 05:23 AM
interesting journal. i missed one thing, does anyone take abilify with desoxyn? cuz my dex doesnt work half as well as it used to since abilify and i wanted to know if it would be the same for desxn since they are amphetamine family?

Yellow
01-06-12, 05:26 AM
I'm wondering if taking an SSRI (like Celexa, which I take currently) helps to prevent any potential neurotoxicity caused by Desoxyn's serotonin agonism. Will an SSRI have neuroprotective effects similar to those which methylphenidate has, only with serotonin?

Anyone know?
yes or no, theoretically speaking from a pharmacological standpoint, it can either be neuroprotective for ur se synapses or it can cause serotonin syndrome....

the only way to determine is by monitoring doses and effect, scary but better safe than sorry

tambourine-man
01-07-12, 08:48 PM
How's that working out so far? I hope you will be successful enough to be able to afford it soon!! :)

It seems to be working well. Much easier to dose and $300 less expensive. I just couldn't give up the Desoxyn, but this is actually a very nice compromise. The Adderall has certain benefits that the Desoxyn does not (Adderall is much better for writing) but is overall inferior to Desoxyn. But I still have a 10mg dose of Desoxyn to work with each day.

15mg of Adderall in the morning.

15mg of Adderall in the afternoon.

10mg of Desoxyn in the evening.

An unusual combination, but quite effective so far.

tambourine-man
01-10-12, 03:45 AM
When I have proper medical insurance, I will drop the Adderall and go with an all Desoxyn schedule. Until then, I consider myself quite lucky to have reached this effective and affordable compromise.

redrose
01-13-12, 01:37 AM
Interesting thread. I have taken Desoxyn together with Dexedrine IR for many years. My opinion is that they are nothing alike, but are extremely complimentary; two halves of a whole. I describe it as left brain/right brain. Dexedrine focuses to get the task done. Desoxyn allows you to not only "notice the flowers" but to stop and smell them on the way to the task. I find it allows awareness and socialization without distraction. It allows thinking without losing track. To concentrate and tackle the mundane however, it doesn't get the job done. That's Dexedrine's job. I don't know why doctors don't get that where one side of the brain is impaired, it''s compatible function on the opposite side is lacking as well. ADD needs both meds to feel normal.
And as for Barr 5 vs 10's- they are both a crap shoot batch to batch. Some batches are Strattera mis-colored, and a month of hell. The worst quality control of any medication I have ever taken. My hope is that Mikart practices strict quality control. That's all I ask. Dosing is just a tweak with consistancy.

tambourine-man
01-13-12, 01:23 PM
Interesting thread. I have taken Desoxyn together with Dexedrine IR for many years. My opinion is that they are nothing alike, but are extremely complimentary; two halves of a whole. I describe it as left brain/right brain. Dexedrine focuses to get the task done. Desoxyn allows you to not only "notice the flowers" but to stop and smell them on the way to the task. I find it allows awareness and socialization without distraction. It allows thinking without losing track. To concentrate and tackle the mundane however, it doesn't get the job done. That's Dexedrine's job. I don't know why doctors don't get that where one side of the brain is impaired, it''s compatible function on the opposite side is lacking as well. ADD needs both meds to feel normal.
And as for Barr 5 vs 10's- they are both a crap shoot batch to batch. Some batches are Strattera mis-colored, and a month of hell. The worst quality control of any medication I have ever taken. My hope is that Mikart practices strict quality control. That's all I ask. Dosing is just a tweak with consistancy.


I agree with everything you say here. Desoxyn is NOT the best medication for those severely effected by motivational deficits. That would be Adderall. Desoxyn doesn't do much for motivation, BUT it is by far the most tolerable stimulant I've ever taken.

redrose
01-14-12, 05:00 PM
Tolerable it is. Almost perfect. Just like GSK dex was. Together they make life so manageable! Barr Adderal makes my heart race tho, and I can't even walk up a flight of stairs on it. My body does what it should when only my brain is properly medicated.
Someday hopefully, they will leave the chemical intact and make the whole medication. I understand that pilots only needed to get to their destination, and only that piece was required. We however, need to multi-task.
Good luck with your journey, and thanks for your hard work!

GammaPaladin
01-27-12, 03:25 AM
I've found this thread an enlightening read.

I was initially prescribed concerta, starting at 18mg, and then going to 36 after the first week. After the first month trial, my doctor and I decided to go to 54 mg to try and deal with the fact that it wore off far too early in the day.

Despite the dosage increase, it remained far too short-lived for me. So we switched to Adderall XR, 10mg a day for a week and then a bump to 20mg. At first it seemed wonderful because it lasted longer and had milder anxiety/tension/appetite suppression effects (Adderall makes me less hungry, concerta gives me anorexia... I literally can't[i] eat while it's in effect).

However, after a more protracted period of use I've come to the realization that while it provides a longer term concentration and working memory boost, it fails utterly to provide the ability to multitask, awareness of situation and time, and so on. It provides me a hyperfocus on one single thing, and I tend to just kind of do one thing and then do the next and the next without thinking, but that results in me neglecting a lot of responsibilities, missing appointments, and spending a lot of time doing pointless things without realizing it.

The concerta provided significant improvements to my ability to split focus and deal with annoyances, as well as awareness of time and surroundings.

I had been thinking that a switch to dexodrine would be pointless if the problem was over-focus, as I had read that it was very like adderall but with less body effects. But reading your posts here I'm actually wondering if it might be worth exploring dexadrine or desoxyn since you say that the hyperfocus is part of the side effects which adderall has and these don't.

Your opinions of adderall seem to match up with mine, although unlike you I actually did have good results on methylphenidate, just not [i]as good as I'd hoped, with too early a crash and fairly annoying side effects.

Would you recommend looking into dexadrine/desoxyn for someone with my experience? My psychiatrist is actually very good about taking my research and feelings into account, so I could probably get either if I make a good case for it, and there seems to be a good argument for it from what I've read here.

GammaPaladin
01-27-12, 03:29 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention (Sorry to double post, but I'm still being moderated as a new user so I can't see the post in order to make an edit), I actually do have serious motivation/procrastination issues, which the concerta helped with, but adderall [i]doesn't[i], despite its reputation for it.

tambourine-man
01-27-12, 05:25 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention (Sorry to double post, but I'm still being moderated as a new user so I can't see the post in order to make an edit), I actually do have serious motivation/procrastination issues, which the concerta helped with, but adderall [i]doesn't[i], despite its reputation for it.

I'd recommend you try Focalin (dexmethylphenidate). It is a cleaner version of Concerta/Ritalin (methylphenidate).

However, Dexedrine and Desoxyn are wonderful options as well. Desoxyn is NOT motivating in the way that that Adderall or Dexedrine are. For this reason, you may want to try Focalin or Dexedrine first.

Desoxyn is a superior stimulant. Dexedrine is actually equally effective, but not nearly as smooth.

Dexedrine is like Adderall without the hyperfocus. Desoxyn is really an entirely different animal. It's very smooth, gentle... almost relaxing, but with a whopping dose of mental clarity.

GammaPaladin
01-27-12, 05:52 PM
Interesting, thank you for the feedback. I would want to try Dexedrine first in any case as, while I do have a good relationship with my psychiatrist so far, I'd prefer not to go straight to "Hey can you prescribe me some meth?"

I will see what he has to say about Focalin and Dexedrine both at my next appointment, and thank you once again :)

sun7199
02-02-12, 11:38 PM
I got on desoxyn after a year and a half of adderall and it's turned my life around. I'm a more responsible, mature, and overall better person. I advise anyone that really has the impulsive type ADHD to try this med out- it's definitely worth it. email me if you have any questions.

tambourine-man
02-09-12, 02:50 AM
Wow! I was reading through this journal again and I'm quite proud of it! It is so difficult to find decent information on this under prescribed stimulant.

I still prefer Desoxyn to any other stimulant I have taken. However, I find Adderall and Dexedrine have their uses as well. For both financial and therapeutic flexibility, I typically take Dexedrine/Dexoxyn or Adderall/Desoxyn.

Adderall will always be my go-to pill when I have writing to do. I can meet any dealine with the help of Adderall. BUT I can't take Adderall unless I am able to immediately throw myself into a project. It makes me hyperfocus like mad!

Desoxyn is wonderfully smooth and subtle. Dexedrine is smack dab in the middle between Adderall and Desoxyn. All three are wonderful medications, but if forced to choose only one, I would not hesitate to pick Desoxyn.

StoicNate
02-09-12, 01:03 PM
I will see if my Psychiatrist will be understanding enough to let me try Desoxyn next time I see him this month.
On a tiny dose of Dexedrine I have had severe chest pains at times (my whole chest area) and chest/heart tightness at random times.

I went to my heart doctor and will be put on a holter-type monitor soon. But the EKG said I have a normal heart beat (off Dexedrine). My blood pressure was too low though.

LanCo Rider
02-09-12, 01:18 PM
On a tiny dose of Dexedrine I have had severe chest pains at times (my whole chest area) and chest/heart tightness at random times.

DO you think that it was directly related to the Dex? I see you have a panic disorder as well; do you think that could have played any part? Have you been on stimulants before? Did they have the same or similar effect?

StoicNate
02-09-12, 06:47 PM
DO you think that it was directly related to the Dex? I see you have a panic disorder as well; do you think that could have played any part? Have you been on stimulants before? Did they have the same or similar effect?

I think it was related to the Dex. I have been about 2 weeks off Dex and really haven't had a problem with chest tightness or anything.
I haven't had a panic attack for about a week.

I wonder how Desoxyn differs from Dexedrine when it comes to heart effects for people that are sensitive to stimulants.
Does it kick up the heart beat?

tambourine-man
02-09-12, 07:24 PM
I think it was related to the Dex. I have been about 2 weeks off Dex and really haven't had a problem with chest tightness or anything.
I haven't had a panic attack for about a week.

I wonder how Desoxyn differs from Dexedrine when it comes to heart effects for people that are sensitive to stimulants.
Does it kick up the heart beat?

Nope. This is why I prefer Desoxyn. Dexedrine, and especially Adderall, can increase my anxiety and have far more noticeable PNS effects.

StoicNate
02-09-12, 08:19 PM
Nope. This is why I prefer Desoxyn. Dexedrine, and especially Adderall, can increase my anxiety and have far more noticeable PNS effects.

Good to know. I will mention this to my doctor. Thanks.

jdgeek
03-11-12, 03:05 AM
T-man, haven't seen you lost for a while. Just wondering how the adderral/desoxyn combo continues to work for you. Have you noticed yourself building up any tolerances? I'm still trying go to convince my GP to let me try it but he unfortunately shares many of the bias discussed In this thread.

tambourine-man
03-11-12, 04:43 PM
T-man, haven't seen you lost for a while. Just wondering how the adderral/desoxyn combo continues to work for you. Have you noticed yourself building up any tolerances? I'm still trying go to convince my GP to let me try it but he unfortunately shares many of the bias discussed In this thread.

The Adderall was only temporary. It got the job done but I get cranky and robotic when I take it daily.

I'm now taking Desoxyn and Dexedrine Spansules. I take a 15mg Spansule with 5mg of Desoxyn in the morning. Then I do the same at two. This creates a very smooth, rapid, and sustained effect. I'm
very pleased. I take the Barr Dex ER capsules which are a bit dirty but the Desoxyn seems to clean them right up.

jdgeek
03-12-12, 11:57 PM
Cranky and robotic. Very good way of putting it. Do you recommend going to a P-dock to see if they will be more open to the idea? Is ther an online list od adhd docs? I just despise adderral and Dexedrine just didn't provide the clarity for me. I don't have motivation issues so I won't miss the "kick in the pants". I miss being able to multi-task. Adderral gives me tunnel vision.

tambourine-man
03-14-12, 02:23 AM
Cranky and robotic. Very good way of putting it. Do you recommend going to a P-dock to see if they will be more open to the idea? Is ther an online list od adhd docs? I just despise adderral and Dexedrine just didn't provide the clarity for me. I don't have motivation issues so I won't miss the "kick in the pants". I miss being able to multi-task. Adderral gives me tunnel vision.

Desoxyn is pretty terrific... BUT it's SO expensive and difficult to dose. I still take it but not on it's own. Right now I'm taking it with Dexedrine Spansules and I'm thrilled with the combo. Desoxyn is my personal favorite but the price, extremely limited dose range and unscored tablets make it tricky.

It does relatively little for motivation when compared with Adderall or even Dexedrine. Honestly, I find Dexedrine the most useful IR stimulant on its own when you consider the price and dosing difficulty of Desoxyn.

jdgeek
03-21-12, 01:23 AM
So today my doc agreed to script desoxyn after dexedrine didn't work out. I caught another lucky break and found a pharmacy that had the mylan generic in stock. With my insurance, 60 tabs (5mg) were only $10 (third lucky break, I know).

I had already taken my morning dosage of 15mg Adderall IR and instead of taking my afternoon dosage I took 5mg of Desoxyn instead. Before taking it I was feeling a bit jittery/anxious as is typical w/ my Adderall (the speedy feeling I've come to despise). Within about 40 mins I noticed a very subtle sedation. No rush or euphoria like when I began taking Adderall and I actually yawned at mid-day, which I haven't done in a long time. Anyways, I want to think it was the Desoxyn taking effect. Focus was pretty decent (not robotic tunnel vision like Adderall) and I was quite pleased with the overall effect. Didn't have the headaches or irritability in the afternoon either which is a big plus.

I realize today wasn't a great day to gauge the effectiveness because of the Adderall mixed in. But so far it seems hopeful though. Tomorrow I may try 10mg in the morning (no Adderall, which I'm eager to leave behind) and see where it takes me.

T-man- if insurance/cost were not an issue, what would your ideal dosage be like? I've been taking between 15-20 mg adderall in the mornings for several months and about 10 mgs in the mornings before that for several years. I too do not have motivation issues, so I won't miss the "kick in the pants". I'm actually looking forward to "smelling the roses" once again. Also, if anyone has supplements/vitamin recommendations I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll try to post back tomorrow for an update. Thanks again for everyone who has posted to this thread. I'm hoping this will be a turning point in my life-long struggles with ADHD.

Mister Marcinko
03-21-12, 12:54 PM
I had a dream/nightmare that I took a desoxyn pill and felt a mild sedation mixed with a wave of depression cycling in. Maybe this is a warning from my unconscious informing me to stay far away from this particular med.

tambourine-man
03-23-12, 04:42 AM
So today my doc agreed to script desoxyn after dexedrine didn't work out. I caught another lucky break and found a pharmacy that had the mylan generic in stock. With my insurance, 60 tabs (5mg) were only $10 (third lucky break, I know).

I had already taken my morning dosage of 15mg Adderall IR and instead of taking my afternoon dosage I took 5mg of Desoxyn instead. Before taking it I was feeling a bit jittery/anxious as is typical w/ my Adderall (the speedy feeling I've come to despise). Within about 40 mins I noticed a very subtle sedation. No rush or euphoria like when I began taking Adderall and I actually yawned at mid-day, which I haven't done in a long time. Anyways, I want to think it was the Desoxyn taking effect. Focus was pretty decent (not robotic tunnel vision like Adderall) and I was quite pleased with the overall effect. Didn't have the headaches or irritability in the afternoon either which is a big plus.

I realize today wasn't a great day to gauge the effectiveness because of the Adderall mixed in. But so far it seems hopeful though. Tomorrow I may try 10mg in the morning (no Adderall, which I'm eager to leave behind) and see where it takes me.

T-man- if insurance/cost were not an issue, what would your ideal dosage be like? I've been taking between 15-20 mg adderall in the mornings for several months and about 10 mgs in the mornings before that for several years. I too do not have motivation issues, so I won't miss the "kick in the pants". I'm actually looking forward to "smelling the roses" once again. Also, if anyone has supplements/vitamin recommendations I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll try to post back tomorrow for an update. Thanks again for everyone who has posted to this thread. I'm hoping this will be a turning point in my life-long struggles with ADHD.

This is a tough question to answer. I find 15mg to my ideal dose. However, I need three doses for all day coverage and 45mg is too much. I suppose 15, 15, 10 would work out nicely. On that note, I don't believe 40mg is healthy dose. So... perfect as Desoxyn may be, I cannot rely on it alone. This is very frustrating.

Dexedrine and Desoxyn seem to work well together but I can't tolerate the side-effects of Barr Dex. 60 GSK Dexedrine Spansules costs just under $500. 60 Desoxyn cost over $200. What am I to do?

jdgeek
03-25-12, 05:56 PM
So it's been several days now on Desoxyn and I can confirm what others have posted previosly. Desoxyn is in fact the most subtle med I have tried to treat my ADHD. No jitters, very low anxiety, and excellent focus. I too concur that those with motivation issues WILL NOT like desoxyn. It only marginally gives you the urge to get up and do something. For me it works great because I've never had motivation issues, just terrible focus and follow through. For me there is absolutely no desire to "splurge" on the med and I highly doubt that others who have been properly diagnosed with ADHD would have problems with abusing it. I echo what others have said in that Adderral would provide more "bang" for those seeking to use it recreationally. I'm sure that with a high enough dosage of Desoxyn you would achieve an adderral type kick as well, but I just don't see that as likely behavior for someone switching to desoxyn after years of dealing with the disorder with other stimulant medications. At this point I wouldn't characterize it as life changing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction, at least for me. I've come to despise my stimulant meds over the years but have accepted them as a reality of life with ADHD. I'm tinkering with the dosage still w/ 5mg in the morning and 5mg at mid-day. It does last about 1 hour longer than adderall so I'm reluctant to dose too late into the afternoon for fear of a rough night's rest.

In sum, it's quite unfortunate that recreational "meth" use has exiled desoxyn to the back of the ADHD medicine cabinet. When used properly, it really has the potential to be a superior medication with fewer side effects.

tambourine-man
03-26-12, 09:06 PM
So it's been several days now on Desoxyn and I can confirm what others have posted previosly. Desoxyn is in fact the most subtle med I have tried to treat my ADHD. No jitters, very low anxiety, and excellent focus. I too concur that those with motivation issues WILL NOT like desoxyn. It only marginally gives you the urge to get up and do something. For me it works great because I've never had motivation issues, just terrible focus and follow through. For me there is absolutely no desire to "splurge" on the med and I highly doubt that others who have been properly diagnosed with ADHD would have problems with abusing it. I echo what others have said in that Adderral would provide more "bang" for those seeking to use it recreationally. I'm sure that with a high enough dosage of Desoxyn you would achieve an adderral type kick as well, but I just don't see that as likely behavior for someone switching to desoxyn after years of dealing with the disorder with other stimulant medications. At this point I wouldn't characterize it as life changing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction, at least for me. I've come to despise my stimulant meds over the years but have accepted them as a reality of life with ADHD. I'm tinkering with the dosage still w/ 5mg in the morning and 5mg at mid-day. It does last about 1 hour longer than adderall so I'm reluctant to dose too late into the afternoon for fear of a rough night's rest.

In sum, it's quite unfortunate that recreational "meth" use has exiled desoxyn to the back of the ADHD medicine cabinet. When used properly, it really has the potential to be a superior medication with fewer side effects.

Thank you for this! That's what I like to hear! I can no longer afford to take Desoxyn. There are too many hoops to jump through, it's absurdly expensive, and terribly difficult to dose. BUT, I've said if multiple times and I will say it again... Desoxyn is king!

It may be egotistical of me, but I'd like to think that all the effort I've put into this public journal may result in Desoxyn becoming more readily prescribed, less expensive, and available in multiple dosage strengths. I will rejoice the day the Desoxyn Gradumet is returned to the market!

bradd
03-30-12, 01:36 AM
Why isn't Desoxyn available in other countries? "Meth Madness" never really gained such widespread media coverage in other countries, so you would think the stigma would be even greater here.

Most everyone else just offers Dexedrine and Ritalin.





Hi. I'm a Canadian with serious AD/HD-PI that though treated, whose quality of life :( continues to suffer greatly because the only available effective treatments come at a very burdensome price: a punishing anxiety/irritability side effect. [This occurs for me with *all two* of the essential choices available here: d-amphetamine and methylphenidate.] As such, I'm just a little more than curious to know the answer to the above question concerning Desoxyn. Also does anybody know if Desoxyn was ever available in Canada? And if it was, when, why or under what circumstances was it withdrawn? Thx.

AddYourAll
03-31-12, 08:55 AM
being in-attentive, I don't thing I would like this one bit; I need the dl-amp to get my brain to function. I used to attribute any negative effect to the racemic amp, but now my body 'needs' that kick and the once present barr side-effects are long gone(adderall, btw). Funny drug, it's so paradoxal that i used to take restoril to sleep, now dexedrine spansule..or sometimes I catch a good nights rest on a 30XR- that's rare and I wouldn't recommend getting in the habit where your body needs an XR AMP for a good night's sleep (talk about tolerence) but I can focus myself to sleep if work didn't wear my down .

hollywood
04-03-12, 10:53 AM
yeah the holy grail is in debate. It's quite the historic piece of work. Oh you guys talking about meds again? LMAO

Dagamus(NM)
04-18-12, 10:30 AM
This thread was worth registering just to share my experiences.

I was diagnosed with add as a kid and used methylphenidate for several years. Parents divorced and I stopped seeing doctors at 10 and shortly afterwards went on to do poorly in school and get into lots of legal trouble. Discovered meth and enjoyed using it. I didn't like doing large amounts like my friends, I preferred very small amounts. Anyways, since my use was illicit I was exposed to many other substances one of which was heroin. This ruined my life for about 7 years.

I got sobered up and went to college and had no difficulties. I started working and continued to go to college part time and still had no problems even when working 70 hours+ and taking at least 6 credits.

Then I started teaching and noticed that I would get very distracted by my students chewing gum or tapping their feet. This distraction made me very angry and violent thoughts would pass through my mind. My anger bled into my personal life and I'm sure I was unpleasant to be around.

I decided to see a doc and try adderall some 21 years after previously taking add meds. The adderall worked as it was supposed to and I was able to teach without problems. I think my students like mr as they tell me so often.

Anyways, it was 15mgIR twice daily but I would always forget to take my afternoon dose until it was too late. Then went to 30mgIR in the morning it was horrible. Too strong in the AM and too little in the afternoon. Then I wet to 30mgSR once daily and that worked well but I found myself robotic and needing 10mg Valium upon getting home to be social with my wife and then needing Ambien to sleep. The morning fog was not nice so I cut back the Valium and Ambien but has issues sleeping.

This continued for about two years then I learned about desoxyn and asked my doc if I could take one each morning on weekends. She said okay. This was good as I didn't like the adderall feeling but would sleep all weekend if I didn't take it. Then one day she took my blood pressure and it was pretty high so I stopped taking anything for a few months. When I went back I asked for desoxyn only and it works much better than the adderall, however my blood pressure was still a bit elevated. I asked for clonidine 0.1mg once in the Koenig and once at night. I haven't taken any Valium and have only needed Ambien twice in the last two months.

My doc gives me a three month script of 125 desoxyn a month but I don't take that much. Usually about 10mg in the morning and that is it.

3 month script mail order costs me $80 for name brand and $10 for generic.

retupmock
05-11-12, 11:50 AM
I'm glad this thread is stickied. There's a wealth of information here for anyone considering Desoxyn as a treatment option.

Like T-man, I had to consider switching to Desoxyn due to the endemic Dexedrine shortage. I had tried methylphenidate, generic Adderall, Vyvanse, and generic Dexedrine. All three are great for focus, but the effects of each are different. My psychiatrist and I have a very good patient-doctor relationship; he always listens to my needs and discusses medications intelligently with me. I brought him the Lundbeck prescribing guide I found here, which has the information and side effects of Desoxyn. He had never prescribed it and had to look it up online, because he thought he'd read it was discontinued. In fact, it wasn't even in the new edition of the prescribing guide.

It's interesting and reassuring to see that others also have had similar side effects to medications. Methylphenidate was absolutely horrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy (ok, maybe I would). It felt like I had some dirty substance running through my body. So much anxiety and paranoia. Overwhelming dysphoria. This is really the only way I would describe methylphenidate. Dirty.

Adderall gave me good focus, but too much peripheral stimulation (namely accelerated heart rate and a LOT of anxiety).

Vyvanse was really a step in the right direction. It was much smoother, with much less peripheral stimulation. A few downsides were that it lasted too long for me, I didn't feel in control of dosing, and it was relatively expensive for me per month (tier 3 medication on my insurance vs. d,l-amphetamine salt combo which is tier 1; $75 co-pay vs. $10 co-pay.)

Thus, I switched to dextroamphetamine. This also had less peripheral stimulation, but, just like with vyvanse, I still had anxiety. I would sometimes take lorazepam if it got too bad, particularly when the medication was wearing off, but I do this very sparingly. I don't like taking a medication to handle the symptoms of another medication, if it can be avoided.

I've only just started taking generic Desoxyn, but so far, it's looking really good. I'm experiencing practically no peripheral stimulation, only mental stimulation. It's very calming, and I have practically no anxiety with it. Also, it affects my emotions less than Adderall or Dexedrine, which made them very blunted. Not only that, Adderall and Dexedrine made me socially reclusive in that i didn't want to talk to anybody, which is extremely unlike me as I'm usually VERY outgoing. Maybe this meant the medication was working, but I didn't like this effect at all.

I'm not looking for a medication to motivate me, since I naturally have a lot of motivation. I only want a medication that allows me to have control over my focus and concentration. Dexedrine, and especially Adderall, are probably more "pushy" in this regard, since they'll almost MAKE you do work. I don't want this. Some people do, and prefer this. Not me.

So far, Desoxyn appears to be very mild, and allows me to control my focus how I want to. I hope it continues to be this effective for me.

One final thing I want to say is that I'm angered by the hoops people have to jump through to attain this medication. Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, (and for many people, methylphenidate *shudder*), are just as abusable medications, if not more so. There is no reason people shouldn't be able to try Desoxyn if it means having less side effects. The ignorance surrounding Desoxyn is unbelievable. If a doctor refuses to prescribe Desoxyn, and the only reason he/she provides is, "it's meth!", while having no misgivings about prescribing d,l-amphetamine, I would seriously doubt that doctor's knowledge on stimulant medications. If a doctor hasn't heard of it, educate him/her. It's a patient's right to have access to a medication that could help him/her more than his/her current one. I'd be glad to hear more thoughts on the subject.

sarahsweets
05-11-12, 12:29 PM
These are the same doctors that hand out oxycontin like its no big deal. OTE=retupmock;1300275]I'm glad this thread is stickied. There's a wealth of information here for anyone considering Desoxyn as a treatment option.

Like T-man, I had to consider switching to Desoxyn due to the endemic Dexedrine shortage. I had tried methylphenidate, generic Adderall, Vyvanse, and generic Dexedrine. All three are great for focus, but the effects of each are different. My psychiatrist and I have a very good patient-doctor relationship; he always listens to my needs and discusses medications intelligently with me. I brought him the Lundbeck prescribing guide I found here, which has the information and side effects of Desoxyn. He had never prescribed it and had to look it up online, because he thought he'd read it was discontinued. In fact, it wasn't even in the new edition of the prescribing guide.

It's interesting and reassuring to see that others also have had similar side effects to medications. Methylphenidate was absolutely horrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy (ok, maybe I would). It felt like I had some dirty substance running through my body. So much anxiety and paranoia. Overwhelming dysphoria. This is really the only way I would describe methylphenidate. Dirty.

Adderall gave me good focus, but too much peripheral stimulation (namely accelerated heart rate and a LOT of anxiety).

Vyvanse was really a step in the right direction. It was much smoother, with much less peripheral stimulation. A few downsides were that it lasted too long for me, I didn't feel in control of dosing, and it was relatively expensive for me per month (tier 3 medication on my insurance vs. d,l-amphetamine salt combo which is tier 1; $75 co-pay vs. $10 co-pay.)

Thus, I switched to dextroamphetamine. This also had less peripheral stimulation, but, just like with vyvanse, I still had anxiety. I would sometimes take lorazepam if it got too bad, particularly when the medication was wearing off, but I do this very sparingly. I don't like taking a medication to handle the symptoms of another medication, if it can be avoided.

I've only just started taking generic Desoxyn, but so far, it's looking really good. I'm experiencing practically no peripheral stimulation, only mental stimulation. It's very calming, and I have practically no anxiety with it. Also, it affects my emotions less than Adderall or Dexedrine, which made them very blunted. Not only that, Adderall and Dexedrine made me socially reclusive in that i didn't want to talk to anybody, which is extremely unlike me as I'm usually VERY outgoing. Maybe this meant the medication was working, but I didn't like this effect at all.

I'm not looking for a medication to motivate me, since I naturally have a lot of motivation. I only want a medication that allows me to have control over my focus and concentration. Dexedrine, and especially Adderall, are probably more "pushy" in this regard, since they'll almost MAKE you do work. I don't want this. Some people do, and prefer this. Not me.

So far, Desoxyn appears to be very mild, and allows me to control my focus how I want to. I hope it continues to be this effective for me.

One final thing I want to say is that I'm angered by the hoops people have to jump through to attain this medication. Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, (and for many people, methylphenidate *shudder*), are just as abusable medications, if not more so. There is no reason people shouldn't be able to try Desoxyn if it means having less side effects. The ignorance surrounding Desoxyn is unbelievable. If a doctor refuses to prescribe Desoxyn, and the only reason he/she provides is, "it's meth!", while having no misgivings about prescribing d,l-amphetamine, I would seriously doubt that doctor's knowledge on stimulant medications. If a doctor hasn't heard of it, educate him/her. It's a patient's right to have access to a medication that could help him/her more than his/her current one. I'd be glad to hear more thoughts on the subject.[/QUOTE]

JamalJ
07-12-12, 12:12 AM
This thread was worth registering just to share my experiences.

I was diagnosed with add as a kid and used methylphenidate for several years. Parents divorced and I stopped seeing doctors at 10 and shortly afterwards went on to do poorly in school and get into lots of legal trouble. Discovered meth and enjoyed using it. I didn't like doing large amounts like my friends, I preferred very small amounts. Anyways, since my use was illicit I was exposed to many other substances one of which was heroin. This ruined my life for about 7 years.

I got sobered up and went to college and had no difficulties. I started working and continued to go to college part time and still had no problems even when working 70 hours+ and taking at least 6 credits.

Then I started teaching and noticed that I would get very distracted by my students chewing gum or tapping their feet.

Thats one crazy story man.:goodpost:

tambourine-man
03-17-13, 03:50 PM
How come this isn't stickied anymore?

Lordsuperman
07-01-13, 05:45 AM
Yes, that first "eclectic" wave via Adderall is NOT to be had (not in the same extreme anyways) with Desoxyn (M. HCI).
That's why the two combined in a dose are beautiful.

Blanched Dubois
07-01-13, 09:07 AM
i'm going to have my pdoc give me a trial - my insurance covers it as does my pdoc write it

i'll give it a try and see if it's better than dex ir for getting motivated to go out and socialize as the Dex at the moment and since i've been on it is only good for turning me into a 'work machine' with no desire to socialize, meh.

Fraser_0762
07-01-13, 09:35 AM
i'm going to have my pdoc give me a trial - my insurance covers it as does my pdoc write it

i'll give it a try and see if it's better than dex ir for getting motivated to go out and socialize as the Dex at the moment and since i've been on it is only good for turning me into a 'work machine' with no desire to socialize, meh.

The motivational feeling doesn't last with any stimulant, regardless of how powerful it is. You'll always adjust to it in the end.

Blanched Dubois
07-01-13, 09:41 AM
I also know that in my case I have no motivation because all i'm doing is working and advocating and doing things I don't like so of course i have no motivation - it's the ADHD.

I'm ok with retreating, I worked my entire life since i was 16 - i don't even have a problem with any of 'it' but this house thing has been the most emo thing i've ever had to handle on my own and getting the attorney was the best thing i could have done because it forced my son's school to buck up and helped me get bank to forgive over 20k in arrears since i almost died in that house.

I'm seeking a renter now and it's so stressful - I probably wouldn't go out and socialize if i didn't have adhd at this point because i wouldn't be a very positive force at all - i'm just kinda in defrost mode. You're right, Fraser, but everyone has different med reactions - i was so clean with no meds in me that everything is too strong. I adjust down in my intake because of this but thanks for the input.

collegewriter
07-02-13, 03:40 PM
i'm going to have my pdoc give me a trial - my insurance covers it as does my pdoc write it

i'll give it a try and see if it's better than dex ir for getting motivated to go out and socialize as the Dex at the moment and since i've been on it is only good for turning me into a 'work machine' with no desire to socialize, meh.

The motivational feeling doesn't last with any stimulant, regardless of how powerful it is. You'll always adjust to it in the end.

Fraser is spot on.

Desoxyn as compared to other traditional stimulants, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Ritalin, etc., appears to have the least "motivational feeling(s)".

Relating my own experience, Desoxyn does nothing to motivate me. It only allows me to stay on topic and suppress REM sleep during the day (I have a pathological sleep disorder). This is perfect because Ritalin and Adderall made me an anxious mess.

Blanched I think you're simply in a stressful spot in life right. I know if I were living in your shoes I'd feel the same way as you. Desoxyn could be great for you, but I wouldn't go in expecting it to be a miracle cure.

FocusPocus10
07-09-13, 04:53 PM
Fraser is spot on.

Desoxyn as compared to other traditional stimulants, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Ritalin, etc., appears to have the least "motivational feeling(s)".

Relating my own experience, Desoxyn does nothing to motivate me. It only allows me to stay on topic and suppress REM sleep during the day (I have a pathological sleep disorder). This is perfect because Ritalin and Adderall made me an anxious mess.

Blanched I think you're simply in a stressful spot in life right. I know if I were living in your shoes I'd feel the same way as you. Desoxyn could be great for you, but I wouldn't go in expecting it to be a miracle cure.

Pretty much have to agree. I like the norepinephrine kick in the nuts to get going, and this has even less of a boost than dex. Frankly, desoxyn ("meth") put me to sleep. Don't expect too much unless you're a hyper SOB who can't sit still on 200mg of Dex. Then maybe you can try this product to get within a more reasonable dosage, otherwise you will surely be let down. It sucks being inattentive type, because it seems like these drugs are all made to get kids to shut up more than they intend to help adults be productive.

Blanched Dubois
07-09-13, 06:46 PM
Pretty much have to agree. I like the norepinephrine kick in the nuts to get going, and this has even less of a boost than dex. Frankly, desoxyn ("meth") put me to sleep. Don't expect too much unless you're a hyper SOB who can't sit still on 200mg of Dex. Then maybe you can try this product to get within a more reasonable dosage, otherwise you will surely be let down. It sucks being inattentive type, because it seems like these drugs are all made to get kids to shut up more than they intend to help adults be productive.

Oh yeah i agree - the meds serve a purpose for a time - therapy...resolution. Right now just one less thing to attend to that's 'serious' would be just swell to relieve my stress level.

It's something ADHD'rs are always attending to though - stress. We all learn different coping strategies. It's the amount of 'stuff' to sift through and the 'errors' both made by myself or others that can be a result of 'forgetting' to tend to something that needs prodding or tending to..so when no longer a 'working person' and waiting on surgery i may have to have i'm told if i want to be safe from becoming paralysed - it's a new system devised.

Learning curves are especially difficult and living with a depressed angry person on your own with a virtual only outlet is rough no doubt AND i dig deep so i know it's on me. Meds and the Dr's only allow a space....it's what i choose to fill it with that counts and whom i allow in my life and why.

Waiting on renter returning agreement with deposit. Not holding breath and relieved at same time :)

NEXT

Stelios369
07-10-13, 10:05 PM
YES!!! In my opinion Desoxyn is indeed the Holy Grail of all ADD/ADHD medications.

I understand why some people and/or doctors freak out a bit at the fact that Desoxyn is Rx methamphetamine. Yes, it can be abused. However, so can just about anything. Let's cut all the crap . . . all the ******** and moaning about it technically being "legal meth."

I've been on 10mg of Desoxyn, 3 times per day, for more than 10 years. That's 180, 5mg tablets per month which costs almost $1,000 without insurance ($50 with BC/BS CareFirst, $220 with MagnaCare). In total - 0.900 grams! Less than one gram! I'm sure there are ways to extract the methamphetamine from all the inactive ingredients, but what a waste of time!!! If someone really wants meth they can buy a gram on the street for $50 bucks.

I was diagnosed with ADD in the 10th grade. To put it in better words, I was first prescribed Ritalin in 10th grade. (5mg 3x/day) I can't even believe how much my life turned around after that. I actually went to class; payed attention; participated in life; stopped getting in trouble; and started to set goals. Sounds kinda' basic, but that was all new to me then. I don't want to praise myself anymore, but I did a complete 180 when I began the Ritalin.
The only downside to Ritalin was "The Crash." Headaches, irritability, loss of appetite, etc... Ralph from the Simpsons said it best when asked how he felt on his new ADD medicine, ". . . . I feel Happy . . . AND ANGRY!!!!"

I tried all the basic ADD medications. Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, Dexedrine, and Focalin. DESOXYN IS THE ONLY ADD MEDICATION WITHOUT THAT HORRIBLE CRASH FEELING!!! I'm not gonna B.S. you. It doesn't just feel like I'm taking a much needed vitamin like I've heard some people claim. It's still a stimulant medication. You need to drink lots of water or you'll completely lose your appetite, develop insomnia, of feel the jitters. However, these side effects are minimal compared to other ADD meds.

I do have a question that I'd really appreciate someone chiming in on. I recently changed medical insurance with my new job. My co-pay each month now is $220 for Desoxyn. I would eat the cost if I had the money, but I don't anymore. Can anybody recommend a similar alternative to Desoxyn? Is there anything as smooth as Desoxyn in terms of taking effect and then wearing off? I appreciate "non-stimulant" suggestions, however, that's not what I'm looking for right now. The "pick-up" gets the engine running properly. I'm also open to financial suggestions (ie Rx help from Social Services).

collegewriter
07-11-13, 09:15 AM
YES!!! In my opinion Desoxyn is indeed the Holy Grail of all ADD/ADHD medications.

I understand why some people and/or doctors freak out a bit at the fact that Desoxyn is Rx methamphetamine. Yes, it can be abused. However, so can just about anything. Let's cut all the crap . . . all the ******** and moaning about it technically being "legal meth."

I've been on 10mg of Desoxyn, 3 times per day, for more than 10 years. That's 180, 5mg tablets per month which costs almost $1,000 without insurance ($50 with BC/BS CareFirst, $220 with MagnaCare). In total - 0.900 grams! Less than one gram! I'm sure there are ways to extract the methamphetamine from all the inactive ingredients, but what a waste of time!!! If someone really wants meth they can buy a gram on the street for $50 bucks.

I was diagnosed with ADD in the 10th grade. To put it in better words, I was first prescribed Ritalin in 10th grade. (5mg 3x/day) I can't even believe how much my life turned around after that. I actually went to class; payed attention; participated in life; stopped getting in trouble; and started to set goals. Sounds kinda' basic, but that was all new to me then. I don't want to praise myself anymore, but I did a complete 180 when I began the Ritalin.
The only downside to Ritalin was "The Crash." Headaches, irritability, loss of appetite, etc... Ralph from the Simpsons said it best when asked how he felt on his new ADD medicine, ". . . . I feel Happy . . . AND ANGRY!!!!"

I tried all the basic ADD medications. Ritalin, Concerta, Adderall, Dexedrine, and Focalin. DESOXYN IS THE ONLY ADD MEDICATION WITHOUT THAT HORRIBLE CRASH FEELING!!! I'm not gonna B.S. you. It doesn't just feel like I'm taking a much needed vitamin like I've heard some people claim. It's still a stimulant medication. You need to drink lots of water or you'll completely lose your appetite, develop insomnia, of feel the jitters. However, these side effects are minimal compared to other ADD meds.

I do have a question that I'd really appreciate someone chiming in on. I recently changed medical insurance with my new job. My co-pay each month now is $220 for Desoxyn. I would eat the cost if I had the money, but I don't anymore. Can anybody recommend a similar alternative to Desoxyn? Is there anything as smooth as Desoxyn in terms of taking effect and then wearing off? I appreciate "non-stimulant" suggestions, however, that's not what I'm looking for right now. The "pick-up" gets the engine running properly. I'm also open to financial suggestions (ie Rx help from Social Services).

In my experience the closest medication to Desoxyn, is Dexedrine. It's not nearly as good since it feels like Desoxyn but with magnified side-effects, but it is the closest in terms of effects that I have tried.

whaddyacallit
07-15-13, 01:14 PM
In my experience the closest medication to Desoxyn, is Dexedrine. It's not nearly as good since it feels like Desoxyn but with magnified side-effects, but it is the closest in terms of effects that I have tried.

You might try Vyvanse. I find it's a lot like Desoxyn only lasts longer and you don't get the ups and downs and crash like you do with Dexedrine.

collegewriter
07-15-13, 02:17 PM
You might try Vyvanse. I find it's a lot like Desoxyn only lasts longer and you don't get the ups and downs and crash like you do with Dexedrine.

Thanks, but you misunderstand me. I was saying how I find Desoxyn to be superior to Dexedrine. I find Desoxyn to be the most effective treatment for me.

stanses
07-18-13, 11:21 AM
Desoxyns great; it feels so natural, it worked for me better than Dexedrine does, not as good as Adderall; but only because the little 5 mg tabs; it's just not feasible as to how expensive it is being that it only comes in a 5mg tab. This company frustrates me due to the fact they have an excellent ADD medicine that's been around SO long, and that they will not make it in any size greater than 5mg. They are basically sitting on a goldmine and don't even know it. The company who makes it are clueless to what a great drug it is and probably doesn't even realize they make it. "oh it's just one of the drugs we make, I don't even know what it's for," they'd probably say.

andy1027
03-23-14, 12:39 PM
Well, I think it has taken full effect. I'm not sure. It is very subtle and smooth. Also, it is extremely relaxing. I feel like I've just finished a marathon night in the sack.

It is not very physically energizing, but really does seem to be without PNS stimulation. I'm sitting here watching a movie and have no desire to get up and find something to do. Adderall is impossible to relax on. Dexedrine is easier, but still a bit forceful. On this Desoxyn (btw, I took 10mg) I feel... normal. Anyway, I think this is what normal feels like. I certainly don't feel medicated.

I still think Adderall is more recreational, but I guess I imagine an amphetamine high to be a very physical experience. Desoxyn seems entirely mental.

It is too early to tell for sure, but I think I like it pretty well. It certainly has an greater axiolytic effect. My anxiety has increased recently. I'm autistic and have bad meltdowns. This forced switch to Desoxyn may be just what I needed.

So far this stuff sounds fantastic! I wish it was available in the UK!!!

HADDaball
03-31-14, 04:45 AM
I find it ironic the OP praised desoxyn so much but their sig says Adderall. If it was so great, why change?

stanses
04-30-15, 03:45 AM
Why change; for the exact reasons I stated: "it's just not feasible as to how expensive it is being that it only comes in a 5mg tab." As in paying 500$ a month for only 20 mg/day simply because I have to pay for 4 tablets per day (20 mg's), versus 60 mg's of Adderall per day (3x's that amount) for less than a hundred dollars a month.

omygaudio
04-30-15, 06:38 PM
I find it ironic the OP praised desoxyn so much but their sig says Adderall. If it was so great, why change?

OP said its "not as good as Adderall".

baical
06-10-15, 07:53 AM
OP, meth is relaxing? I feel as if Vyvanse is. My doc told me this is life changing but so far I haven't seen much life changes. I was hoping he'd step it up to dexedrine and or desoxyn or even just as a booster for the Vyvanse. How does one get a booster anyway? I've heard of people who are on Vyvanse get Adderall IR as their booster. I would think a booster amphetamine would have to be instant release so that it gets utilized and leave the body faster in time for bed. Is this about right? Considering Vyvanse is slow release, I would assume I'd need a booster mid day. My dose is 30 mg Vyvanse. I notice it working within after 2 hours of taking it, and it seems to peak within 5 hours total, as far as confidence level goes and this is with zinc so that's helping it. Without zinc, the confidence level isn't even noticeable. I still think Desoxyn is king but the doc seem hesitant to let me get it even said it was only for weight loss.

baical
06-10-15, 08:40 AM
Curious if "boosters" are covered by insurance?

Headroom
06-10-15, 05:37 PM
I hope that the perspective I am about to share does not go against the forum's rules. I am doing it to describe functional aspects of several research chemical closely related to Dosoxyn. For those who do not know, in this context Research Chemicals (RCs) are recreational drugs which have not yet been scheduled by governments and, just like already scheduled recreational drugs, some of them have useful non-recreational properties.

I've read multiple claims in the recreational RC space that 4-fma is the closest thing to the methamphetamine. I don't have personal experience to compare them from the recreational perspective, but I can say that 4-fma is a great capability enhancer. There are also 2-fa and 2-fma which are universally recognized as productivity tools. I concur with that. Unlike 4-fma, Adderall and dextraamphetamine, they have pure functional. 4-fma can be very euphoric, but the euphoria it brings does not take away from productivity. You can work on it with a tremendous speed and efficacy while feeling a pleasant buzz in your body. That pleasant buzz will go away after a few day, but the functional aspects, while diminished will persist longer. Caveat Emptor: Beyond this everything that applies to other amphetamines applies to it as well.

Bouncingoffwall
03-08-16, 11:52 PM
Curious if "boosters" are covered by insurance?

Not sure if Ritalin is a valid comparison, but I take Concerta 36 mg with a Ritalin 10 mg IR booster - I get 60-day supplies with one script. Kaiser covers both scripts. Methylphenidate is super-cheap, so that may be why my insurance covers both.

chiefbandit
04-09-17, 11:25 PM
everybody here is talking about Vyvanse ,Adderall, d-amp,d-meth , desoxyn and dexedrine. But my third-world country has nothing. The Ritalin 10 mg that is available here is quite expensive and is not working enough for me at low dosages. So, my psychiatrist and i were stuck for like eight months or so until one day he says heck it all, take the one that others take for recreational use. Desoxyn's street brethren. At first, i was like quite skeptical, dont people do like sniffing and stuff on that thing? Then, i went on to do research about it and took the plunge.
It really works for me , except that i found out in a hard way that you cannot take it with SSRIs. And, that, i should limit my alcohol intake while on it.
Also, i read online that those pills has like 45mg in them. I take one a day, from monday to friday(work days), i will crash on Saturdays and Sundays, sleep the whole day and eat the whole day.I am a non-smoker, but while on it, i will chain smoke. I think it has sth to do with 1 and 3(or 4 was it?)dopamine receptors revving up to their normal levels(or more).
It doesnt give me hand tremors like Ritalin does, in fact, it helps controls the hand jitters i get from too much coffee and or social anxiety. I find that my heartbeat is stronger than normal through out the day as well.

chiefbandit
04-10-17, 04:44 AM
However, i am becoming very nervous sometimes, and i read in online forums that long-term usage can result in the user becoming manic and or very paranoid like he thinks everybody is plotting against him,or that he get suicidal and commit suicide.Or does it only apply to those who "chase the dragon" like sniff the meth out of bottles and stuff who use it for recreational purpose or abuse it. I also heard that meth is neurotoxic to dopamingenic receptors or sth like that..

sarahsweets
04-10-17, 08:32 AM
This sounds like amphetamine psychosis which can occur with any type of amphetamine.

Bouncingoffwall
04-12-17, 12:31 AM
However, i am becoming very nervous sometimes, and i read in online forums that long-term usage can result in the user becoming manic and or very paranoid like he thinks everybody is plotting against him,or that he get suicidal and commit suicide.Or does it only apply to those who "chase the dragon" like sniff the meth out of bottles and stuff who use it for recreational purpose or abuse it. I also heard that meth is neurotoxic to dopamingenic receptors or sth like that..

Generally, amphetamine psychosis occurs in doses well above the therapeutic limit. And the jury is still out as to whether meth is actually neurotoxic at low doses.

Desoxyn (or any stimulant) is generally recognized as safe at doses at or below the therapeutic limit. It's only contraindicated in individuals who have a history of prior psychosis, high blood pressure or cardiovascular disease.

The user you mentioned may have been abusing his medication, or was already schizophrenic and would've had a psychotic break regardless of stimulant use.

elite242lbs
04-13-17, 06:49 PM
Generally, amphetamine psychosis occurs in doses well above the therapeutic limit. And the jury is still out as to whether meth is actually neurotoxic at low doses.

Desoxyn (or any stimulant) is generally recognized as safe at doses at or below the therapeutic limit. It's only contraindicated in individuals who have a history of prior psychosis, high blood pressure or cardiovascular disease.

The user you mentioned may have been abusing his medication, or was already schizophrenic and would've had a psychotic break regardless of stimulant use.

How would one determine the therapeutic limit? Ive seen some on 15mg/day others up to 70mg/day.

Bouncingoffwall
04-14-17, 11:51 AM
How would one determine the therapeutic limit? Ive seen some on 15mg/day others up to 70mg/day.

I believe the FDA-recommended maximum dose is 30 mg a day. Usually 20-25 mg a day is the effective dose. 70 mg is pretty high.

The potency of D-Methamphetamine is roughly 2:1 over D-Amphetamine, but it's subjective effects seem quite different. In most cases, D-Meth doesn't feel as "speedy" as D-Amp.

So, 70 mg of D-Meth could be equivalent to 140 mg of D-Amp. YMMV.

Joker_Girl
04-14-17, 01:55 PM
The bad thing about methamphetamine is that it's neurotoxic at high doses. Because of the stigma against it, it's evidently super expensive, and hard to come by. They're hesitant to prescribe it, because I suppose the DEA pays extra close attention to who is prescribing it and how much.

I can imagine at an equivalent dose, methamphetamine being relaxing. Of common ADHD meds it's probably the most similar to dexedrine and/or Vyvanse, and I thought Vyvanse was very calming. I am way more chilled and calm on Vyvanse (so I suppose, also, dextroamphetamine), and Adderall as well, compared to Ritalin. Ritalin, to me, has more physical stimulation, and I am just a lot more cold, emotionless, and down to business on Ritalin than amphetamines.

I have never taken desoxyn, but I did try meth and coke in the past. Of course I was taking probably 20x a therapeutic dose, and cramming it up my nose instead of taking it orally. Therefore the effects were nothing that would be helpful in the least, unless reorganizing the silverware drawer 18x or making a boat out of cardboard is useful. Also who knows what was in it?

For that reason I cannot recommend this.

I don't think it's unusual at all to find adderall and dextroamphetamine relaxing, and I would not be surprised if 5 or 10 mg of prescription methamphetamine would be as well. But the other things are working okay for me, my insurance covers them, they aren't stigmatized, and are less neurotoxic, although maybe at such low doses, desoxyn isn't harmful, either.

Bouncingoffwall
04-14-17, 02:22 PM
Desoxyn fascinates me as a pharmaceutical medication rather than a street drug. I was at one time an abuser of street meth as well; street meth is a very different (and impure) animal. Unless you had Heisenberg making your meth, it could consist of really... well... anything. Drug dealers are not honest, scrupulous people concerned with the public's health. Route of administration is a big factor too, and inhaling 250 mg dirty meth into your bloodstream has an entirely different result than ingesting a 5 mg "clean" pill. Same goes for snorting (which is far less efficient that smoking).

The potential to have mostly the cognitive improvements, without the "speedy" feeling, appeals to me. I would be sharper, more measured, and more organized without the artificial gregariousness. I wouldn't have to deal with weird (yet harmless) sensations in my chest, or the occasional feeling of a lump in my throat. I want the cogntive enhancements, without the other stimulating effects, at the lowest dose possible.

chiefbandit
04-21-17, 06:14 AM
Desoxyn fascinates me as a pharmaceutical medication rather than a street drug. I was at one time an abuser of street meth as well; street meth is a very different (and impure) animal. Unless you had Heisenberg making your meth, it could consist of really... well... anything. Drug dealers are not honest, scrupulous people concerned with the public's health. Route of administration is a big factor too, and inhaling 250 mg dirty meth into your bloodstream has an entirely different result than ingesting a 5 mg "clean" pill. Same goes for snorting (which is far less efficient that smoking).

The potential to have mostly the cognitive improvements, without the "speedy" feeling, appeals to me. I would be sharper, more measured, and more organized without the artificial gregariousness. I wouldn't have to deal with weird (yet harmless) sensations in my chest, or the occasional feeling of a lump in my throat. I want the cogntive enhancements, without the other stimulating effects, at the lowest dose possible.

I dont think they inhale 250mg because i read somewhere on this forum that lethal dose is 125 mg.

Dismayed that i am, i have no choice but to rely on the 'animal' because my country makes adhd meds illegal due to widespread abuse. They have some off-record Bangladesh(or pakistan) 10mg ritalin available which costs around 3.5 USD. I take 20mg and wont feel a thing. What is probably worse is most of the psychiatrists themselves are not familiar with add.One doc pleaded me not to take ritalin because you are only 'ADHD' when you are a child and have 'hyperkinetivity'. One assistant prof doc with a med student beside him, didnt believe i have add when i told him i think i have add. He said if i was, i would have been diagnosed since i was a child. Now that i think about it, i become furious. That day he could had killed my life if i was to believe him. Whats more, there will be multiplier effect as he failed as a teacher. He prescribed me Lecithin(yea i am no doctor but please stop trying to tame the bane inside me by throwing flower petals at it!!!). He asked me to come back again in 2 weeks times. I didnt go back, to see a asst prof psychiatrist in private hospital put heavy dents on my wallet. Though, half of the doctors i met were very understanding and willing to help me. They wrote ritalin prescriptions for me thereby endangering their license because ritalin is classified under 'illegal drugs'. Though of cuz the catch here is that there is no ritalin here except one.
It is sad to think that there are tens of thousands others undiagnosed in my country who wont make it so far in life despite them trying so hard shedding blood, sweat and tears EVERYDAY. Well, this is not your Merkel's Germany or Uncle Sam's America i guess.

Anyway, this 'animal'. i had taken for two months already. It costs around 3USD and packs a 45mg punch. Well

chiefbandit
04-30-17, 05:10 AM
I am starting to adapt to my " desoxyn". I am not drinking coffee in the morning cuz it gives me tics and anxiety. But as a person who grew up with undiagnosed add for years caffine cant just simply be swept off the menu. I drink coke zero in the morning and black coffee in the afternoon.
Also, please guys, d-meth is demonized for a reason, but dont get me wrong,u should really consider it as a medication when all else fails.
I lost my libido now but i am willing to pay my price for it becuz i have no partner.
NEVER TAKE Ssris with (ie. Lexapro etc) and anti- histamines(chlorpheniramine etc for anxiety) together with d-meth. I wished i learned this earlier.
Dont drink when on d-meth, but if you need to limit yourself esp if you are tired.
Take tgt with other add drugs like ritalin or adderall only when you need to.
I am taking benzodiazapine( called xanax or alprazolam), i had avoided using this so much becuz i wanted it for my special moments(u know the downest low when you cry, body shaking). But dmeth is making my anxiety worse.
Tire yourself out. Yes you are totally amped up no need to sleep and all that but dont. Read a book, study, watch tv on your " borrowed time" becuz u will pay the price.
I pay my price on weekends, sleeping whole day, and even then my head is abit hazy at work due to prolonged use.
NEVER. abuse your Adhd drugs. With great power comes great responsibility. Cliche' i know, but think about it. You may pop an extra Ritalin 10 mg or two when out with friends at night or even offer them. BUT, you need to prepare for the Ritalin Crash. AND OR with Desoxyn COMBINED!! Scary stuff, you can do Really stupid things on it. And, i am a gentleman who refrain from using the stupid word at all. May be cuz i am called by it by others too many times.

Enjoy your Dex, do great things with it, be motivated at work and school, be confident that today is going to be a good day. NOT the day when you put in so much effort,the BEST that you can, yet still be frowned upon by others. Go the extra mile with it, learn a new language, new hobby, improve yourself, after work at night.

Good luck and have fun, i hope you find your Med that work for you.
But throw in some caution at the same time.( for eg, i refrain myself from learning how to "chase the dragon".) Again, with great power comes great responsibility. No, i dont think it is cliche at all.

chiefbandit
04-30-17, 05:25 AM
In the future, i want to try the infamous Vyvanse and Adderall so much. Or the dare i say it?!, Dexedrine!!! Or the Desoxyn in its purest chemical virgin form without other isomers and all that.When i can move out of my country of cuz :)

sarahsweets
04-30-17, 07:15 AM
In your previous post I thought you said that ritalin was the only options. Did I miss something?

I am starting to adapt to my " desoxyn". I am not drinking coffee in the morning cuz it gives me tics and anxiety. But as a person who grew up with undiagnosed add for years caffine cant just simply be swept off the menu. I drink coke zero in the morning and black coffee in the afternoon.
Also, please guys, d-meth is demonized for a reason, but dont get me wrong,u should really consider it as a medication when all else fails.
I lost my libido now but i am willing to pay my price for it becuz i have no partner.
NEVER TAKE Ssris with (ie. Lexapro etc) and anti- histamines(chlorpheniramine etc for anxiety) together with d-meth. I wished i learned this earlier.
Dont drink when on d-meth, but if you need to limit yourself esp if you are tired.
Take tgt with other add drugs like ritalin or adderall only when you need to.
I am taking benzodiazapine( called xanax or alprazolam), i had avoided using this so much becuz i wanted it for my special moments(u know the downest low when you cry, body shaking). But dmeth is making my anxiety worse.
Tire yourself out. Yes you are totally amped up no need to sleep and all that but dont. Read a book, study, watch tv on your " borrowed time" becuz u will pay the price.
I pay my price on weekends, sleeping whole day, and even then my head is abit hazy at work due to prolonged use.
NEVER. abuse your Adhd drugs. With great power comes great responsibility. Cliche' i know, but think about it. You may pop an extra Ritalin 10 mg or two when out with friends at night or even offer them. BUT, you need to prepare for the Ritalin Crash. AND OR with Desoxyn COMBINED!! Scary stuff, you can do Really stupid things on it. And, i am a gentleman who refrain from using the stupid word at all. May be cuz i am called by it by others too many times.

Enjoy your Dex, do great things with it, be motivated at work and school, be confident that today is going to be a good day. NOT the day when you put in so much effort,the BEST that you can, yet still be frowned upon by others. Go the extra mile with it, learn a new language, new hobby, improve yourself, after work at night.

Good luck and have fun, i hope you find your Med that work for you.
But throw in some caution at the same time.( for eg, i refrain myself from learning how to "chase the dragon".) Again, with great power comes great responsibility. No, i dont think it is cliche at all.

chiefbandit
04-30-17, 11:28 PM
perhaps, the post before that. Also, previous page .

sarahsweets
05-01-17, 04:34 AM
NEVER TAKE Ssris with (ie. Lexapro etc) and anti- histamines(chlorpheniramine etc for anxiety) together with d-meth. I wished i learned this earlier.
What do you mean by this? Many of us can take SSRI's, SNRI's or tricyclics while taking amphetamines. I dont think its fair to say this as if it is fact and scare someone who takes both, or who may take both.

I pay my price on weekends, sleeping whole day, and even then my head is abit hazy at work due to prolonged use.
Why is this? Do you take breaks on the weekend? If you are taking too much and feel this burned out then you are on the wrong med or dose.

Little Missy
05-01-17, 07:51 AM
What do you mean by this? Many of us can take SSRI's, SNRI's or tricyclics while taking amphetamines. I dont think its fair to say this as if it is fact and scare someone who takes both, or who may take both.


Why is this? Do you take breaks on the weekend? If you are taking too much and feel this burned out then you are on the wrong med or dose.

He is using street meth. Location, location, location...