View Full Version : Adddiction, ADD, and Drugs


MindResearcher
10-03-04, 06:19 AM
Hi all I would just like to post a few opinons on this subject. Iv been wrapped up with addiction for about 5 yrs, and before that, did not know anything about mental disorders, such as depression, ADD, etc, and if or what i suffered from. But i know for years i drank moderatly, binged on weekens. Basically, due to social phobia, i would always have to be semi-impared to be in a bar or public place. Never drank in the day but, more at night.
In the yr 1999, iv began using GBL, an analong of of ghb, which was sold over the counter, and by 2000, i was full bloan addicted for 3 yrs, non stop every day. To my experience, no drug made me feel the serenity and calm peace and mood enhancement. I even read Dr. Deans book , GHB, the natural mood enhancer. Well, I dont want to get into it personally , but i lost a heck of a lot. I tried every way, to stop, 2 rehabs, p-docs, etc. Antipychotics, SSRI, welbutrin, xanax, klonopin, just went back to g. It ruled me.
Well 2003, I entered a 6 month rehab, which i needed. Most people, coulselers, doctors never even knew much about it. I myself had to tell and research it, actually i gave a Neuropsychiatrist, a downloaded sheet explaining the detoxification and methods, from a doctor in california, he was pleased.
But sill nothing. Well after the 6 month rehab, I did alot. I did not crave it anymore, yet still had dreams and such. But being sober, 8 months, only taking zoloft 100mg, i was still not right. I went to a few more doctors, only to get more SSRI's or maybe xanax. I could never figure out what the heck was wrong. I thought it was a seratonin thing, and my serotonin was perminently messed up.
Well, after 10months clean, I ran into a guy who basically we go talking and to sum it up, i had about 60 free oxycontin 40mgs. This set it off. It took all my problems away. Made me social, motivated, happy, at peace, overall body warm and fuzzy, etc. Well after 2 months, i was up to 6 a day. So I went to a detox rehab, 5 day methadone, which is not the way to go, because day 6 when your meth is cut, you feel horrible, so i left ama. THis was Id say last november.
So, I began using some H, and oxy, because percocet, vicodin would not even touch me. Then after spending over 1000s of dollars, i was given 10 pills by a friend who said, if you want to stop , take these. I was hesitant, but i researched them , and which were suboxone, a new drug , for opiate withdrawl and addiction. After taking just 8mg pill, in 2 hrs i felt normal. Not high, which is the difference between suboxone and methadone. Now a opiate non tolerant person could take 2-3 and get a buzz, but not someone who uses or is tolerant.
So, in jan feb, I made an appointment with a special doctor who is pretty knowledge able in opiate addiction and perscribed me 90 a month. It did wonders, but still there was something missing. I relapse a few times, and sold my pills to get more oxys. So, aftere reading alot on a person who basically suffered symptoms like me, but used alcohol instead of opiates, was always posting about Dexedrine, adderall, klonopin, etc. Comparing them , explaining the effects, and was likemmm maybe i do have add, because i always thought ADD was someone who just could not sit still. But unknowigly, there are 6 different types and my doctor told me 80 percent of addicts have add.
Well he persribed me, Adderall , klonopin, and lexapro. Basically used the klonopin if im anxious, mainly to sleep. Lexapro, 10mg, is ok, but i want to just stay at like 5mg and take supplemental seratonin supplements, like 5htp.
I took the add test, and was diagnosed with ADD, and was given adderall, to sum it up, this med, within 2 days i felt 80 percent better. Im sure the suboxone was helping too, but actually the adderall helped better with cravings, motivation, boredom, and the feeling of doing things, and zest for life feelign.

So by april/,may, my dose was upped to 20mg 2x daily, and suboxone was lowered to 2x daily, 60 adderall/60 Suboxone/60 klonopin. I must say this combonation is about the closest you can (in my opinion) get to feel pretty good, have minimal drug cravings, and tame the ADD lion. Having Type 2 , I recently read on Brain Place.com, where spect scans of add type brains, pscychostimulants were the best medication for this type. After researching, My problem is dopamine dysfunction mainly. Now dopamine is a very complicated neruotranmitter, but what i get out of it, is the Reward center, called the nucleaus accumbens and stiatium, is the pleasure center in the brain.
Now from abusing drugs mainly which interact with this center, for years, plus add, the problem lied in the meso-dopamine system, moreso the nucleus accumbens. But the other side is, this is also an addiction center, so one with an addiction , can be more addicted to a drug which releases such.
But, I dont think Adderall, or amphetamines, (moreso methamphetamine), releases alot of this chemical, but just enough, along with the prefrontal cortex loop. ALso, Mu opiate receptors are a major site for addiction , esp one with opiate addiction. I guess all in all, my self research did help me a bit, or i may be still out there using . I havent drank in over 8 months, and around 3 months clean of opiates. But one day i will have to stop suboxone, but i dont plan on it soon, im on a maintence dose of 8mg. It actually is alot more benificial than methadone, because methadone is a full agonist opiate, and is just as addicting as the other opiates, although suboxone, you dont get high, its strong enough where you dont have alot of cravings and wipes out withdrawls, also gives you a bit of a mood boost.
Now amphetamines I believe may potentiate or both work synergistically with eachother. Now i dont mean that oxys and adderall will, but this drug, i have no problems with, except you cannot just stop it, or you will have some withdrawls. With adderall, withdrawls are moreso, sleeping and dyphoria. But If one has severe enough add, which i think i do, amphetamines are helping me, by correcting the dopaminergic pathway, so, without this drug, i will experience a neurochemical imbalance, resulting in problems.
Well, I hope this post may help someone who suffered or is suffering from opiate addiction or has ADD with drug abuse. An added bonus, is that Suboxone seemed to wipe out alcohol cravings 100 percent! for me, I actually drank 2 beers and almost puked. Now im not saying im totally over the opiate addiction and do get cravings, but as time goes by they get far and few.
THe only problem now is being on 3 drugs which are abusable. Im also big into natural remodies, and have tried alot, most of which you cannot notice or dont work. But some take time, and can sure help one maybe lower there dose of sythetic meds, or help the brain by causing an antioxidant or anti-neurotoxic effect. There are a few good ones which actually help repair the neurotransmitters and receptors.
(boy i shoudl have went to med school) LOL, no actually you dont need 8yrs of med school to sell natural meds, and some of them are as good or better.
REmember, medication is just a mast, natural supplements, are moreso a healer, cure type. Boy i can talk for hrs on this but i wont. BUt one example.

Lets take an SSRI. You have an ssri like zoloft. Its a drug. It blocks the reuptake of seratonin from being reuptaken back into the presynaptic nerve cell, allowing more Serotonin to be available in the synapse. I dont see any type of "nature process here". Now take L-Tyrptophan or 5htp. These amino acids are precursors of serotonin. THey MAKE serotonin, and cross the blood brain barrier , as long as a b-6 vitamin is taken. with 5htp. Carefull with nat. supplements because some require a transporter to converter , to help cross the BBB. So in a big picture, you have the natural medication making more serotonin, and the drug just blocking its uptake. Now, A herb called St. Johns wart, actually is a reuptake inhibitor for Serotonin Dopamine and NE. ANd im sure and I am aware of at least 5 different natural substances which either releases, enhance or reuptake every neurotransmiter, (5) the basic 5. But you must give it a chance, and if it does not seem to work, try another.

Well to sum it up in my opinon, drug addiction or alcoholism, is a disease. So, if its a disease, proper medication is needed. SOme people who are in Na/AA which iv done 1 yr of everyday meetings, help to an extent, but overall, Mental Health, and proper nutrition, medication, excersice which leads to enhanced neurotransmittion and a better state of well being, thus less drug cravings or abuse. But there will always be that temptation to get high just one more time. BUt as they say in Na, this too shall pass.!

MIND RESEARCH 2004

Garry
10-03-04, 06:53 AM
This I found to be a very interesting post

I just wish Mind Reashercher had read

Here are the links for the other posts

Are you ADDers able to read entire posts? (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6759)

Other ADDers writing LONG Posts (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1987)

Reading Posts (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1916)

Ian
10-03-04, 11:04 AM
I got through it ok and enjoyed it actually. I can't imagine spending that amount of time pondering the chemistry but that's just me.

Here's to hoping you can get clean to your own specifications some time in the future. There are many things we can do with meds and without meds to help our respective situations. You obviously have been seeking a better way for a while.
Good luck to you. Please keep us all posted on the progress.
ian

charlie
10-03-04, 02:23 PM
hEY mIND,
A couple of observation/questions come to my mind

I had read previously Zoloft "selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors." Serotonin is one of the chemical messengers believed to govern moods. Ordinarily, it is quickly reabsorbed after its release at the junctures between nerves. Re-uptake inhibitors such as
Zoloft slows this process, thereby boosting the levels of serotonin available in the brain. So as I'm reading this as slowing the process not blocking the reuptake of seratonin.
<http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/zol1503.shtml (http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/zol1503.shtml)>






Now dopamine is ...the pleasure center in the brain.
Lets take an SSRI. You have an ssri like zoloft. Its a drug. It blocks the reuptake of seratonin from being reuptaken back into the presynaptic nerve cell, allowing more Serotonin to be available in the synapse. I dont see any type of "nature process here". Now take L-Tyrptophan or 5htp. These amino acids are precursors of serotonin. THey MAKE serotonin, and cross the blood brain barrier , as long as a b-6 vitamin is taken. with 5htp. Carefull with nat. supplements because some require a transporter to converter , to help cross the BBB.

St. Johns wart ... a reuptake inhibitor for Serotonin Dopamine and NE. ANd im sure and I am aware of at least 5 different natural substances which either releases, enhance or reuptake every neurotransmiter, (5) the basic 5. MIND RESEARCH 2004

St John's Wort was recommended to me by a friend who suffers with depression with her warning that when it wore off she felt worse, I also found that to be true, much like Valium when it wears off I felt 10Xs worse than when I took them.

I'm still trying to figure out the seratonin relation to mental healthiness specifically bipolar, ADHD, OCD, and any natural supplements that may help.

What I've heard so far is that omega3's help with natural seratonin production/uptake. I'm all for natural I really dislike the idea of spending money on docs and RX for long:(
I would caution anyone in regards to St Johns Wort it can actually result in a mania type reaction to those with bipolar.

MindResearcher
10-03-04, 03:03 PM
Ok Ok guys, im apologize , im not trying to be mr Know it all or write an SA! LOL, I just tend to ramble sometimes when thoughts are in my head. I know some people hate reading long posts, but i guess i ll break em down and like post smaller ones in other formus! sound good! Anyway, all the information i provide, is not like made up!
FIrst, I understand the rules, and im not diagnosing or clinically advising anyone. Take what i have to post , and maybe some can relate. I may sometimes post, well St Johns Wart is a Reuptake of Se/Da/Na, well i guess i forgot to quote where i read it!
My room is full of files and desks and folders, of stuff. I have a hard time even locating research, and I do my best to organize all.
Basically, The information sources I post, are from articles on ADD, experiences from which i have went through, or someone who has or shall I say known a bit, that really knows there stuff, as per some people on this board, it seems you guys really are up to date! But in no way am i trying to "pretend to know it all" or anything. I guess this add medication works sometimes! IF it wasnt for my meds, i would probably post about 1 sentence. And it would be like, ya i suffer from something like that ok, help please!
by

THats how i used to be , when posting. ANd i would hardly ever get any good knowledgeable response. But I will try to split up my long posts.Esp if i drift off to something else. MMMM sounds like ADD !!!
Mind R

MisterMan1976
10-03-04, 05:46 PM
Great advice about the St. Johns Wart. Thanks.hEY mIND,
A couple of observation/questions come to my mind

I had read previously Zoloft "selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors." Serotonin is one of the chemical messengers believed to govern moods. Ordinarily, it is quickly reabsorbed after its release at the junctures between nerves. Re-uptake inhibitors such as
Zoloft slows this process, thereby boosting the levels of serotonin available in the brain. So as I'm reading this as slowing the process not blocking the reuptake of seratonin.
<http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/zol1503.shtml (http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/zol1503.shtml)>







St John's Wort was recommended to me by a friend who suffers with depression with her warning that when it wore off she felt worse, I also found that to be true, much like Valium when it wears off I felt 10Xs worse than when I took them.

I'm still trying to figure out the seratonin relation to mental healthiness specifically bipolar, ADHD, OCD, and any natural supplements that may help.

What I've heard so far is that omega3's help with natural seratonin production/uptake. I'm all for natural I really dislike the idea of spending money on docs and RX for long:(
I would caution anyone in regards to St Johns Wort it can actually result in a mania type reaction to those with bipolar.

Garry
10-03-04, 08:19 PM
Hey MindResearcher

I wasnt critisizing your post , I just posted my bthoghts without thinking about my wording.

I quite enjoyed your post and had no problem myself reading it.

I guess I was just trying to say its easier to read and digest things when there in short paragraphs

I appoligise if you felt I was critisizing

and dont worry

I ramble on and on myself quite often

MindResearcher
10-03-04, 09:43 PM
no Problem, i like this board very much, and the members are not rude, and if i say or post something out of boundries, professional staff treats me with respect as do the other memebers. Unlike, for instance, without naming the board, i posted a thread , and it was quite long, and im not exactly sure what i said, nothing severe, just maybe his opinion differered or something, but he posted 2-3 times again about me, more so like disrespecting me saying i must be in a state of amphetamine psychosis, or anxiety ridden. THen he kept going on and posted again, saying geno, by the way , da da da critisizing me. Well, When i read it, you know if by reading something you get that feeling that something just isnt right and this guy just bashed you.
Well, without cursing him out, i nicely told him that if you are not a licensed doctor, specializing in nutrition and medications, pertaining to ADD, please do not make a fool out of me. ANd i added, im sure your words would change a bit if you were to see me in person. No to brag or anything, but 240lbs 5 11 and kickboxed for 10 yrs, bodybuilding, and judo, I dont like to fight, but i dont like to be disrespected. So anyway, next time, i will do the right thing and report it. THis goes to show that im doing the right thing , now if it was 2 yrs ago, i would probably curse him out to the end, get myself kicked off the board , and then some. Maybe hunt him down LOL, no, but to answer your question as to what i know.

Zoloft, basically is a more potent SSRI. actually besides paxil has the most available reuptake blockade, which blocks the pre synatic nerve cell that releases the serotonin and thus does not allow it to be reabsorbed. Now , if you go further, your getting into neuropsychopharm, and that is like crazy top notch stuff! I cant hardly even read some of the words! No wonder neuro surgons must go to med school for like 14 yrs!
BUT, another thought i came up with is, say taking a low dose of an SSRI , such as lexapro. THen slowely add some 5-htp to the mix, so your actually making more or producing more serotonin to be released into the synaptic gap, then more available to be reuptaken. Its just someting i thought about.

As for St.Johns wart, this herb is very complicated in a way. One study says it has mao properties, another says its blocks the reuptake of Serotonin, Dopamine, Ne, ANd GABA! , and some state it does both. SO i imagine if St. Johns Wart blocked all 4 neurotransmitters reuptakes, then acted as a Mao inhibitor, boy im inagine this herb would be pretty darn strong. But overall, it seems to at least have Serotonin and Dopamine properties. But , if you research it, you may get different aspects.

Im actually trying this herb, at 300mg 3x daily, but only 300mg to start, then work up , along with 50mg of 5htp. To cut this short, im going to post some more natural nutrients in the alternative forum.

thank you
M REsearch

Ian
10-03-04, 11:26 PM
MindResearcher I'm loving your input but I have to say that posts that aren't broken up into bite sized chunks are beyond me. If I really have to read something that is all in one big clump I copy it and break it up myself. Then it seems to be easier to hold my attention through it.
Please keep us posted as things emerge for you.
ian

goodgirlgonebad
11-25-04, 11:25 PM
Hi Mind Researcher...
That is a very interesting post....I would really like to talk to u if at all possible. I have been battling the exact same problems as you for too many years now. It is very hard to find the proper help where I am and u sound like you really know wats going on. If you would not mind ...could u PM me or maybe even e-mail me. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanx a bunch!! Lori