View Full Version : Can kids with ADHD focus sometimes? Please help!


anika022
12-07-11, 01:44 AM
So my son has not officially been diagnosed with ADHD (he is 2 1/2, so too young). Yet I am pretty certain he has it. His father had it (he died when our son was 7 weeks old), I know it is highly genetic, and basically he fits all the symptoms. Keeping in mind I know toddlers often display a lot of the symptoms anyway, but his is to the extreme and as a mother I know what he does is not normal (especially being around other kids, I have noticed a difference). I would list all his symptoms but it would take too long. His main problem is the attention span. For example, I gave up so long ago trying to take him with me grocery shopping, because he couldn't sit still, even though I would bring toys, food and a drink, he would end up screaming and I felt like ****. Of course I see many other parents taking kids younger, his age, and older with them no problem. There are so many more examples, but I can't give them all. And I'm tired of trying to convince someone he has it, so let's just assume he does.
Now I took him to the doctor today to get some advice and see what we can do next. I was skeptical about going, because I had a feeling I would get told he was 'normal' and it's just the terrible twos. For the record, I have been seeing signs of this since he was born, he's never been able to sit still long.
At the appointment he was pretty bad, he was lying on the floor throwing a tantrum, crying, wriggling on my lap, etc. But, she had a box of toys. And he looked at one toy turtle which had buttons you could push down for about 3 minutes. And because of this, she decided he could not possibly have ADHD. She suggested 'time out', obviously not hearing me out that he cannot sit still, therefore time outs don't work. And now suggests we go to a class for parenting techniques. For the record, I am great with kids. I love them. I know how to discipline them. It doesn't work on my son. I know I am a good parent, but I can't change how he is. She also wants to call his pre-school. I stayed all the time with him at his pre-school for a long time, so I know how he is there. My partner and I still stay with him a while there, and he is very indecisive about what he wants to do there, moving onto lots of things quickly. However there he doesn't seem bad, because if he gets bored/inattentive of one thing, there are lots of other things for him to move onto. Not to mention a lot of the time the kids are playing on their own, being there are only 5 teachers and 30 kids. So I feel calling them is completely useless.
Sorry this is long, but to my question, can kids with ADHD focus on things they love? Do they have to be running around continuously, never able to sit still? From everything I've read, kids with ADHD can focus on certain things and still have ADHD. I read that if it is something that interests the child, or something they enjoy, they can focus on it (although he doesn't even do this long with things he likes).
For example, he is obsessed with trains. He can play with them a while sometimes (say 10 minutes max). He can sometimes sit and watch tv (also say around 10 minutes). But try to read him a book, he can't do it. Try to get him to sit still for dinner, he can't do it. Try to take him out to lunch, grocery shopping, he cannot sit still.
So does the fact he played with a toy a few minutes say he does not have ADHD? Can he focus on certain things, but then the rest of the time (I'd say 90-95% of the time) display ADHD symptoms, and have ADHD?
Thank you for your help, I'd appreciate it. I just found out I am pregnant with my second child and I am so so scared, unsure how I am going to watch a newborn when my son needs constant attention and I can barely do anything with him as it is.

katiediditalso
12-07-11, 08:19 AM
Each child and each case is different. But 2 1/2 is way to young IMHO to slam anyone with such a diagnosis. Diet may be something to research at that age.

We just started my son, almost 14, on the lowest dose. As a toddler and young child he ran 12/7. Meaning he was full of energy and movement and crashed overnight for 10-12 hours on to recharge for the next day. He HATED toys.Hated video games as a pre-teen. Anything that moved he was into. So get the child into sports,swimming etc. Many ADHD kids are incredible athletes. Water, balls, mud, sports, running,fishing...anything that moves. FORGET THE LEGGOS. LOL. But do force the reading somehow, even a reward system for listening just a little longer each day. Perhaps books with sounds and lights. Audio books to fall asleep by.

Absolutely my son could and can focus on things he likes/loves. He would stand at the driving range and hit balls as a toddler for hours. Totally focused. Rest of the day, on the run and and do do and do.

As a teen he can make B's and A's in a very hard private school in the courses he loves. Can't focus on courses like English and it's difficult for him to concentrate on writing. Reading was a nightmare for us. So, this lead us to the choice of a small dose of Vyvanse, actually it was his choice. He was frustrated that his potential in English and History was high, yet he couldn't produce the work. It's helping a little some days, a lot others. But after years of learning to manage his ADHD, WE know how to manage the days were the medication isn't fully "on."

My son is a doll. Not a mean bone in his body. Very few meanie hormone days. I would take his ADHD, full of life and joy personality over 70% of my friends teens. Believe me!

Get to know your child over the years. Learn what makes him tick,what makes him gear down.

ccom5100
12-07-11, 10:03 AM
Yes, a child with adhd can focus on the things he likes or things that are stimulating. I know that my child can sit for hours (if I'd let him) playing video games.

In my opinion, your child is much too young for a true diagnosis or medication. I would also suggest looking into diet. We started the Feingold diet when my ds was 3 1/2, after he was kicked out of 3 daycare/nursery school environments. The main thrust of the diet is eliminating chemical additives which can exasberate or even cause hyperactivity. If you are interested in finding out more information, go to www.feingold.org

Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions regarding diet.

----------------
Hester Prynne

mcnay1
12-07-11, 10:36 AM
We have 2 sons - 6 YO and 5 YO (one year and a day apart in age). Our 6 YO was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive, not hyper) at the age of 4 YO. They are adopted, and were both born in a foreign country, so many of the tests that we run on newborns were not run on them (this will come into play in a minute). Anyway, I knew from the time that we picked our 6 YO at the age of 8 months, that there was something not quite "normal." In fact, he was very delayed in gross motor skills. We had testing done, but, of course, it was just too early to tell anything. By 3 YO, we had early intervention for speech and then for social development. At 4.5 YO, he was diagnosed with ADHD. My point with this is to stay the course. All states are different, but when he turns 3, check in with your counties early intervention program. At this point, he probably is way too young to "diagnose" anything and in reality, at this young age, you may not want a diagnosis...But, to answer your question, Im sure some ADHD kids, as they are all different, can focus for periods of time on some things. Our ADHD son, however, without meds, cannot focus on anything other than a video game for several minutes. With meds, he is much better.

HOWEVER...

Have you had his hearing checked recently - with an ENT or an audiologist? Our 5 YO son is/was very energetic and has displayed some of the hyper symptoms of ADHD. He, though, can focus on his work at school. Anyway, we didnt realize until he was 4 YO that he is moderately to severely hearing impaired and now wears hearing aids. In my research, I've come to realize that hearing loss in children can cause some of the same behaviors (hyperness, inattention, "wondering into space"...) as ADHD. It's unlikely, but it may be something to check. If you can get into the counties early intervention program, his hearing will be checked there as well (?). Just a thought....

happytexas
12-07-11, 11:28 AM
Each child and each case is different. But 2 1/2 is way to young IMHO to slam anyone with such a diagnosis.

This just makes me :mad:. Having had a child whose ADHD symptoms were (in hindsight) clear at that age, and being told "he's all boy" or other dismissive things was NOT helpful, delayed treatment, and left us all miserable. Also, ADHD is often more than inattentiveness/impulsiveness/hyperactivity -- there are frequently processing issues, sensory issues, and language issues that may or may not involve articulation that should be addressed now rather than later.

Though I agree that diet is worth examining, particularly at this age when parents control intake, as well as sleep disorders which can cause or worsen ADHD symptoms.


We just started my son, almost 14, on the lowest dose. As a toddler and young child he ran 12/7. Meaning he was full of energy and movement and crashed overnight for 10-12 hours on to recharge for the next day. He HATED toys.Hated video games as a pre-teen. Anything that moved he was into. So get the child into sports,swimming etc. Many ADHD kids are incredible athletes. Water, balls, mud, sports, running,fishing...anything that moves. FORGET THE LEGGOS. LOL. But do force the reading somehow, even a reward system for listening just a little longer each day. Perhaps books with sounds and lights. Audio books to fall asleep by.As a toddler my son was full of energy and movement, but fought sleep ever step of the way. Later he would spend large chunks of time building 'inventions' and Legos--he abosolutely LOVES Legos, Snap Circuits, and video games. He likes the water but would not take any sort of instruction in swimming before this summer. He HATES being sweaty and exerting himself physically. It took a lot of convincing to even get him to do a trial of gymnastics this year. He does not respond to behavior charts despite the desperate attempts of his first school. He is hyperlexic, LOVES to read, and is likely Asperger's as well.

He can sometimes sit and watch tv (also say around 10 minutes). But try to read him a book, he can't do it. Try to get him to sit still for dinner, he can't do it. Try to take him out to lunch, grocery shopping, he cannot sit still.
So does the fact he played with a toy a few minutes say he does not have ADHD? Can he focus on certain things, but then the rest of the time (I'd say 90-95% of the time) display ADHD symptoms, and have ADHD?I don't necessarily think parenting classes are a bad thing IF they are designed for parents of ADHD children, because they often don't respond to typical parenting techniques (like time-outs) and you could probably use some other ideas. That the doctor said being able to focus AT ALL means he cannot have ADHD is a clear indication that she has no idea what she is talking about.

Are you in New Zealand (http://www.adhd.org.nz/define1.html)? I'm not sure what your options are but I recommend looking for a clinic (http://www.pediatrics.uthscsa.edu/centers/hope/services.asp) with an eval team that includes a developmental behavioral pediatrician, a speech language pathologist, and a psychologist. More immediate, accessible options may be evals with an OT and an ST. Though it's likely you will not get a definitive diagnosis at this young age, that doesn't mean there isn't anything that can be done to help.

Preschool-Age ADHD Children: Too Young for Diagnosis? | ADDitude Magazine ... (http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/2488.html)

What Causes ADHD--Web MD
http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/adhd-causes
Sleep and ADHD - Lack of Sleep and ADHD (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fadd.about.com%2Fod%2Flivingwithad hd%2Fa%2FImportantsleep.htm&rct=j&q=lack%20of%20quality%20sleep%20ADHD&ei=iriFTtmDL-qLsQLd0L2xDw&usg=AFQjCNGmOvx3XNwgq3Uin7nxgy10kpgE6w&sig2=6HkRgzUnoIImfL_fytauiQ&cad=rja)

ADHD and Food Allergies - ADD ADHD Advances (http://addadhdadvances.com/foodallergy1.html)

ADHD and Food Allergies - Adhd in Child (http://www.adhdchildparenting.com/facts-on-food-allergies.php)

Food Allergy Testing for ADHD and Autism (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFMQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.betterhealthusa.com%2Fpublic% 2F336.cfm&rct=j&q=ADHD%20and%20food%20sensitivities&ei=r7qFTobHAvCDsgKzl4yzDw&usg=AFQjCNHBLsVDx_6j3dqz4W7IN94wwPI0Mw&sig2=oPJs0ymijunLhdFPRrDJug&cad=rja)


Google search: "ADHD and food sensitivities" http://www.google.com/search?q=ADHD+and+food+sensitivities&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

katiediditalso
12-07-11, 11:40 AM
Wow. So sorry I offended you with my MHOs and experiences. I sort of though sharing on boards was what it was all about, so people could pull little bits out of what applies to them.


Edit: Thanks for your edit, it seems far less confrontational now. Yes, your experiences seem to be on the other end of the ADHA spectrum than mine. It's informative to learn about all the many facets of ADHD.

happytexas
12-07-11, 12:17 PM
Wow. So sorry I offended you with my MHOs and experiences. I sort of though sharing on boards was what it was all about, so people could pull little bits out of what applies to them.

What I find "offensive" is the implication that a particular age is too young to seek help and that children are "slammed" with diagnoses. My observation from being on special needs boards is that arguments against evaluations/diagnosis (from friends, family, doctors, teachers, etc.) tend to delay a parent seeking evaluations/treatment by 2 years or more.

Otherwise I was pointing out that my ADHD child was frequently the opposite of yours and not pursuing evaluations/diagnosis hurt him as there was a lot more going on than the "basics" of ADHD.

Lunacie
12-07-11, 12:19 PM
I agree with Happy Texas. Children with Autism are doing much better
when there is early diagnosis and early interventions and treatments. Why
wouldn't the same thing be true for children with ADHD?

Treatment doesn't have to be stimulant meds unless the symptoms are so
severe the child is a danger to himself or others, but awareness on the
parent's and teaching good skills can make a big difference. Not being
aware and treating the child like he or she is being deliberately bad is
horrible for their self esteem.

Dizfriz
12-07-11, 12:38 PM
I don't necessarily think parenting classes are a bad thing IF they are designed for parents of ADHD children, because they often don't respond to typical parenting techniques (like time-outs) and you could probably use some other ideas.

Happytexas, good post. One minor point. I have found that time outs can work well if crafted to fit an ADHD child. The traditional ones are usually too long and usually come only ofter a number of warnings. As you indicated, parent training needs to be specifically designed for ADHD. This is very important.


anika

I might suggest looking here for some ideas. No answers but some of the concepts might be of use.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

Two years old is really too young to diagnose or start medication unless it is *very* severe. That does not mean that you cannot begin to use ADHD specific behavior management. This is shown by the research to be one of the two tools that are validated for ADHD. Medication is the other.

My biggest recommendation is that you learn as much as you can about the disorder for two reasons. First, to help you find tools that, at least some degree, will be successful and two, you have to be the advocate for your child through his growing up time. If you don't do this effectively, it is likely that no one else will. For both, you need all the knowledge you can get.

As an add on, one of the primary reasons for not officially diagnosing a 2 year old as ADHD is that at this age, it is too hard to separate out and evaluate the other possible causes of the behaviors. A clinician can tell the parents however that it is likely that the child may be diagnosed as ADHD when he/she has grown a bit older. That is usually enough to get the child some help.


Good luck

Dizfriz

Luvmybully
12-07-11, 01:04 PM
My daughter was diagnosed at 3, and she had all the signs and symptoms all along. So yes they were present at 2.

The diagnosis itself was not what was helpful to us. It was the parenting classes, the education and the understanding of what adhd is that was the most helpful.

Absolutely have the Dr talk to the pre-school. It will only be helpful for your child to have all aspects of his world considered. If he really does have adhd, the preschool will have valuable information about how HIS unique adhd is affecting him. It is not the same for every child.

Since your child is so young, it is hard for a Dr to definitivley say Yes this is what is happening with your child. But you have started the awareness, begun the documenting of his issues. Now the Dr can follow his progression. Will he grow out of these stages and phases that are typical to most every child or will he continue to have more and more problems, indictaing that there is a reason to seriously look into the behaviors.

Parenting an adhd child is a difficult task, but the great thing is that the techniques that work for an adhd child also work very well for most children.

And yes an adhd child can focus on things they find interesting.

anticipate
12-07-11, 01:10 PM
I wouldn't, personally, consider ADHD based primarily off of the attention span or activity level of a 2.5yr old. Having said that, you will find plenty folks with children who have ADHD who will tell you their kids were WIRED from basically birth.

I think the primary thing to focus on right now, instead of a diagnosis, is which behaviors you want to change/adjust? When our son was about that age is when we drastically altered his diet and also attended several parenting classes and seminars. We didn't do Feingold, but we did cut out nearly all sugar and food coloring. We didn't always agree with what the parent classes/seminars were preaching, but we did get some good information and some SUPPORT out of them.

I just want to throw out there, I was CRAZY hyper when I was very young. Like, non-stop movement from waking until crashing. But I did not have ADHD. I was just super sensitive to certain foods and especially to sugar.

anika022
12-07-11, 02:43 PM
Well, thanks for your replies, although I'm not sure if some of them did answer my question about kids with adhd being able to focus on certain things. I did post this question on another forum and got all responses saying yes, their kids could hyper-focus on some things.
For the record, I don't want to put him on meds. I don't really even need them to 'slam' him with the diagnosis. As someone else said, classes geared towards ADHD and more information on it would be useful.
And also, he rarely eats bad foods. I offer him healthy stuff at every meal, and no he doesn't eat most of it even though I never give up, but I never replace it with unhealthy food anyway. So he is not going hyper from sugar. As I said, it's the inattentiveness whic h is the main issue, I don't think he is overly 'hyper' (and I know there are different types of ADHD so he doesn't have to be incredibly hyper to have it), apart from he does move around a lot because he loses attention with stuff so fast.
I know it would be hard to diagnose at his age, as I did actually say in my post he is too young and I know toddlers display these symptoms sometimes anyway. I just want to get the ball rolling, at least get someone to look into it and give me some help, not judgement. I have heard from a few people now they knew from as young as my sons age they had ADHD or autism but their doctors told them their children were 'normal'.
I don't WANT him to have ADHD, I would be over the moon if it were just the terrible twos, however I have noticed symptoms from before he was even 1, but of course up until now I have just been telling myself it is normal. I'm not sure parents of normal children cry their eyes out, or are awake all night because they are so worried about facing the next day, or instead of being only happy at finding out they are pregnant again, worry constantly how it is going to work. I even have had my partner home with me for the last few months, so 2 of us to 1 toddler should be no problem. But it is a huge one. I love my son and I just want to be able to take him out and do normal things with him, and play with him. Does anyone know any books or websites that have strategies for dealing with ADHD behaviour in young children?

anika022
12-07-11, 02:51 PM
And yes, I am in New Zealand, but obviously I can't get a referral onto anywhere else without my GP's help.
In regard's to the hearing thing, he had his hearing checked as a newborn and it was fine. He did have glue ear (blocked ears) from the time he was 7 months old - around 17 months old, so his hearing was affected then and his speech delayed because of that. He now has tubes in his ears and his language is very close to being normal for his age (we just had a check up for it a few weeks ago). The doctor yesterday said his hearing does seem to be ok.

anticipate
12-07-11, 03:30 PM
anika - ((HUGS))

You seem like a very loving mom! I think things on this board have been a tiny bit tense for some reason lately, and that's reflected in some of the responses. When we began freaking out about our son's behavior (at one point he was kicked out of 5 day care centers in less than 9months) we started with some other couples at our church. There was a parenting series the church sponsored that we found really helpful. I don't know much about what sort of resources are available in your country, but you have nationalized healthcare, correct? Is there any sort of hotline you can call for information/advice? Here in the states (specifically TX) I would recommend calling the WIC office and the Dept of Health and Human Services for references.

ccom5100
12-07-11, 04:40 PM
Does anyone know any books or websites that have strategies for dealing with ADHD behaviour in young children?

Here are some books that I found helpful:
Transforming the Difficult Child:The Nurtured Heart Approach, by Howard Glasser
Playful Parenting, by Lawrence J. Cohen
Why Can't my Child Behave, by Jane Hersey

----------------
Hester Prynne

happytexas
12-07-11, 04:45 PM
And yes, I am in New Zealand, but obviously I can't get a referral onto anywhere else without my GP's help.


Medical/provider options are different all over :o--I don't need a referral unless the provider I want to see requires one; the "New Zealand" link above is to an ADHD online support group which has leads for local groups.

I think the Dr. wanting to talk to the school is actually a good sign; even if he isn't a "behavior problem" in school his teacher may have seen enough to support you. If there isn't a way around the GP then the parenting classes are one hoop already jumped through.

And yes, Hyperfocus is part of ADHD.

LynneC
12-07-11, 10:39 PM
Hi Anika and welcome!
In case you aren't clear on this, yes, ADHD kids can focus on those things that they find stimulating.

Your description of your 2 1/2 year old sounds very much like my boy was at that age. I dreaded taking him to the grocery store, and even today (he's 9) I still try to avoid it whenever possible. :rolleyes:
He did not have the attention span to play with a toy for more than a minute or two at that age. He wasn't destructively hyperactive, but like your boy, as soon as his attention waned, he was off and running, looking for something else to explore.

One thing to try re the toys is to put some up (away, where he can't see them) and then rotate them every couple of weeks or so. This may help to keep the toys a little more intriguing.

Make sure to read the essays posted by Dizfriz (I'll post the link again). Reading through these essays will give you a clear idea of what to be looking out for as your boy grows, and how to manage his behavior.
Here's the link: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

ginniebean
12-08-11, 03:08 AM
playful parenting looks like an excellent book.

the other two have a decided lack of understanding of the neurological underpinnings of adhd and sell ideas defeated by science. people should be aware that trying out various nutritional regimes will have no affect on the adhd (because it's a neurological condition) and this has been proven in numerous studies. If your child h as food sensitivities or allergies alongside ADHD then the diets may be helpful.


The book transforming the difficult child has some extremely controversial techniques like physically restraining your child rather than offer them medication. It has a decided anti-medication bias and because it ignores the neurological issues of adhd is more harm than help.


one very excellent book on adhd for parents is "Taking Charge of Adhd" by Russel Barkley. He explains clearly what adhd is and the various treatments that work and why they work.

ccom5100
12-08-11, 10:25 AM
The book transforming the difficult child has some extremely controversial techniques like physically restraining your child rather than offer them medication. It has a decided anti-medication bias and because it ignores the neurological issues of adhd is more harm than help..
...people should be aware that trying out various nutritional regimes will have no affect on the adhd (because it's a neurological condition) and this has been proven in numerous studies.

You are waaay off. Transforming the difficult child is a book about nurturing, building self-esteem, and positive feedback. It is nothing like what you described.

In addition, people who haven't tried nutritional methods should not pass judgement on the methods. There ARE studies! It is true that these methods don't work for everyone, but they do work for many. Why wouldn't someone want to try managing their child's adhd naturally before, or in conjunction with, using meds?

Lunacie
12-08-11, 12:15 PM
You are waaay off. Transforming the difficult child is a book about nurturing, building self-esteem, and positive feedback. It is nothing like what you described.

In addition, people who haven't tried nutritional methods should not pass judgement on the methods. There ARE studies! It is true that these methods don't work for everyone, but they do work for many. Why wouldn't someone want to try managing their child's adhd naturally before, or in conjunction with, using meds?

It's my understanding that scientists and researchers believe that food
allergies can mimic ADHD but aren't the same as ADHD. If a change in diet
"cures" dramatically improves the symptoms, then there was no actual ADHD.

The only nutritional studies I've seen on food or supplements are those
that show improvement in actual ADHD from taking Omega 3, but sadly
it doesn't help everyone who has ADHD.

However, I'd be interested in seeing studies that link diet with ADHD if
you can provide some.

ccom5100
12-08-11, 01:07 PM
It's my understanding that scientists and researchers believe that food allergies can mimic ADHD but aren't the same as ADHD. If a change in diet "cures" dramatically improves the symptoms, then there was no actual ADHD.........
However, I'd be interested in seeing studies that link diet with ADHD if
you can provide some.

The studies link diet with adhd symptoms. There is no way of knowing whether these symptoms match adhd as you describe it, since we do not know definitively what causes adhd. Even if it is solely a neurological condition, exposure (thorough ingestion or otherwise) to toxic chemicals can be the cause of the neurological condition.

namazu
12-08-11, 01:13 PM
However, I'd be interested in seeing studies that link diet with ADHD if you can provide some.

Here is one recent study published in The Lancet (it's different from the artificial coloring study -- this one's about a restricted elimination diet and ADHD, by Pelsser, et al.):
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2962227-1/abstract

There are several potential problems with this study that I won't discuss in detail here (maybe in another thread if someone wants to get into it!), but it is something from the peer-reviewed literature. Again, it will take time to see if the effects persist over time, and if they can be replicated by other researchers.

sarahsweets
12-08-11, 03:26 PM
I am 100% behind diet for health, allergies,sensitivities. I am not convinced that there is one independent scientifically reviewed study or article on how it can improve adhd.

Lunacie
12-08-11, 04:00 PM
You also have to have a kiddo that will eat such a diet. One of my grandkids will eat almost anything, the other eats only a few things.

ginniebean
12-09-11, 02:55 AM
You are waaay off. Transforming the difficult child is a book about nurturing, building self-esteem, and positive feedback. It is nothing like what you described.


Really? I said he has a biased anti-medication agenda. He does as can be evidenced by one of his others books, "101 Reasons to Avoid Ritalin Like the Plague".

In his book "Transforming The Difficult Child" he shows no understanding of the neurological basis of adhd. He claims on page 31 (get your book out) that his method can "turn things around in only a month". That is just shy of a cure claim AND shows no understanding of ADHD neurology.

On page 31 the parents are told they can be their child's therapists. I guess he'd know as he sells a certificate for his system to people who are willing to pay to take a 5 day workshop and then they may go and be the experts for other parents. Who needs an education anyway!?


It's not like there aren't good behavioural techniques in that book but he doesn't even once give credit for those old techniques that can be found in much better books out there. Ones that don't...Page 264

recommend forced restraint where the parent is told to put an out of control child on a chair while they restrain the arms of the child from behind by holding their crossed arms around the child while the child struggles. This is to be done while the parent is completely silent.

I'll stand by my statement that this book can cause harm.



In addition, people who haven't tried nutritional methods should not pass judgement on the methods. There ARE studies! It is true that these methods don't work for everyone, but they do work for many. Why wouldn't someone want to try managing their child's adhd naturally before, or in conjunction with, using meds?

See, it doesn't matter to the believe in the food cure faith whether someone has tried something or not because if the diet fails it's just never the fault of the diet, it's always the fault of the person who didn't implement it perfectly or wasn't vigilant. I raised two children with ADHD, both are doing VERY well. I did do elimination diets on my children, they created anger, frustration and resentment. What they did not do was make a difference.


I was an anti-medication parent and I know my prejudice did cause harm and I know there are many parents out there like I used to be. Suggesting I'm being 'judgemental' because somehow in the name of 'fairness'?

By evidence I mean studies (long term) that show improvement thru restricted diet on ADHD symptoms that can be replicated. Unfortunately those studies have not been done.

Yes, people do studies, make claims but, the studies are often flawed. They haven't been replicated, and they were short term studies. This is not good science BUT it's a very effective marketing technique because "studies have been done".





The studies link diet with adhd symptoms. There is no way of knowing whether these symptoms match adhd as you describe it, since we do not know definitively what causes adhd.



The studies 'claim' a diet link with adhd yet these studies are not replicates, long term etc... Studies have been replicated over and over that show no link between ADHD and diet.


The symptoms of adhd are well defined. Not knowing what causes ADHD in no way undermines understanding of the symptoms. A decent clinician doing a diagnostic would know what to look for and know what he's looking at symptom wise.

Even if it is solely a neurological condition, exposure (thorough ingestion or otherwise) to toxic chemicals can be the cause of the neurological condition.

Exposure to toxins in UTERO are a good bet for cause in cases of ADHD. There is no evidence(tho by all means quality food is important) that ADHD is environmental. Meaning, that ADHD is not caused by exposure to toxins as a young child or bad parenting.

Definitely, the growing fetus, particularly in the first trimester is vulnerable to exposure because that's when the brain is being formed. For instance, fetal alcohol syndrome is caused by a toxic substance in utero at a critical time of brain development. This can happen and it can cause ADHD.

Most ADHD is genetic tho and there is enough evidence now to claim that the majority of adhd cases are genetic in origin.


Now, the difference between what you are saying and the researchers is significant.

But what the heck why not try it?

If a parent strongly feels that they want to do that, ok.. but the problem is, it's not a treatment for ADHD. It's misleading to say so, it's a distraction for parents who could be using energy to learn about ADHD, it trivializes ADHD into a minor food allergy/sensitivity, and it reinforces denial already existing in parents.


Ultimately, the child pays for any mistakes. Parents need good and sound information in order to help their children. Not all information is of equal value.

ccom5100
12-09-11, 11:23 AM
Really? I said he has a biased anti-medication agenda. He does as can be evidenced by one of his others books, "101 Reasons to Avoid Ritalin Like the Plague".
In his book "Transforming The Difficult Child" he shows no understanding of the neurological basis of adhd. He claims on page 31 (get your book out) that his method can "turn things around in only a month". That is just shy of a cure claim AND shows no understanding of ADHD neurology.
On page 31 the parents are told they can be their child's therapists. I guess he'd know as he sells a certificate for his system to people who are willing to pay to take a 5 day workshop and then they may go and be the experts for other parents. Who needs an education anyway!?
It's not like there aren't good behavioural techniques in that book but he doesn't even once give credit for those old techniques that can be found in much better books out there. Ones that don't...Page 264
recommend forced restraint where the parent is told to put an out of control child on a chair while they restrain the arms of the child from behind by holding their crossed arms around the child while the child struggles. This is to be done while the parent is completely silent.
I'll stand by my statement that this book can cause harm.

Any book can cause harm if you pick it apart, even the Bible. I stand by my recommendation on this book, because it's major thrust is toward nurturing and positive reinforcement. However, I would not insist that anyone read it if they didn't want to. I'm just amazed that you actually went through the book and picked out passages just to make your point.

See, it doesn't matter to the believe in the food cure faith whether someone has tried something or not because if the diet fails it's just never the fault of the diet, it's always the fault of the person who didn't implement it perfectly or wasn't vigilant. I raised two children with ADHD, both are doing VERY well. I did do elimination diets on my children, they created anger, frustration and resentment. What they did not do was make a difference.
I was an anti-medication parent and I know my prejudice did cause harm and I know there are many parents out there like I used to be. Suggesting I'm being 'judgemental' because somehow in the name of 'fairness'?
By evidence I mean studies (long term) that show improvement thru restricted diet on ADHD symptoms that can be replicated. Unfortunately those studies have not been done.
Yes, people do studies, make claims but, the studies are often flawed. They haven't been replicated, and they were short term studies. This is not good science BUT it's a very effective marketing technique because "studies have been done".
The studies 'claim' a diet link with adhd yet these studies are not replicates, long term etc... Studies have been replicated over and over that show no link between ADHD and diet.
The symptoms of adhd are well defined. Not knowing what causes ADHD in no way undermines understanding of the symptoms. A decent clinician doing a diagnostic would know what to look for and know what he's looking at symptom wise.

I'm sorry these alternatives did not work for you. However, they do and will continue to work for many other people. You are entitled to your opinion and certainly entitled to share your experiences. Concerta didn't work for us, but that doesn't mean that I bash concerta every chance I get; because I know that it works for other people. Diet worked for us, and it works for the thousands of people who have used it over the years. It doesn't work for everyone, I know that, and I make sure that I state it in every post. There is nothing faith-based here. There are studies, but you continue to dismiss them because they don't live up to your standards and the standards of the scientists who are paid by the pharmaceutical companies to conduct their studies.

Exposure to toxins in UTERO are a good bet for cause in cases of ADHD. There is no evidence(tho by all means quality food is important) that ADHD is environmental. Meaning, that ADHD is not caused by exposure to toxins as a young child or bad parenting.
Definitely, the growing fetus, particularly in the first trimester is vulnerable to exposure because that's when the brain is being formed. For instance, fetal alcohol syndrome is caused by a toxic substance in utero at a critical time of brain development. This can happen and it can cause ADHD.

I agree, the fetus is vulnerable to exposure to toxins, but so is anyone who ingests petroleum (which is the basis for all those chemicals in the foods that affect our kids). Some people are more susceptible to these substances than others. Just like not all people who smoke will die of cancer and not all people who drink will get liver disease. People's brains have been damaged by all sorts of chemicals, it's not just exposure in UTERO. Look at what sniffing glue did to some people in the 50's or psychedelic drugs did to some people in the 60's, or inhaling spray cans did to some people in the 80's.

Most ADHD is genetic tho and there is enough evidence now to claim that the majority of adhd cases are genetic in origin. Now, the difference between what you are saying and the researchers is significant.

I agree because my ds is the third generation of adhd. Yet, his symptoms are still managed by diet. I can't explain why, and neither can your researchers. All I know is that it is what it is, and I'm happy that it works for us.

If a parent strongly feels that they want to do that, ok.. but the problem is, it's not a treatment for ADHD. It's misleading to say so, it's a distraction for parents who could be using energy to learn about ADHD, it trivializes ADHD into a minor food allergy/sensitivity, and it reinforces denial already existing in parents.

I will just reiterate what I've said before. No one knows what causes adhd, but if the symptoms can be managed for some by eliminating petroleum-based chemicals from our diets, then a parent who is looking for alternatives to medication, or even as an adjunct to medication, should have access to that information.

Ultimately, the child pays for any mistakes. Parents need good and sound information in order to help their children. Not all information is of equal value.

Yes, a child will pay for the healthy eating habits he is learning by staying away from toxic foods!

Parents do need good sound information. I certainly have been, and will continue to research all information on adhd.

This is not a contest of meds vs. alternatives. You are only making it so. No one is bashing meds here, we are just talking about methods that have worked for us and many others like us. If you take your blinders off, you'll see that some of us who use these methods may also use meds, but to a lesser degree than those who use meds alone.

LynneC
12-09-11, 12:00 PM
Thread closed for review...