View Full Version : Desoxyn + SSRI = Less Neurotoxicity?


tambourine-man
12-24-11, 01:16 AM
A great deal of research has led me to conclude that Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine) is, indeed, more likely to cause neurotoxicity at prescribed doses than other amphetamines.

Technically, Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) is the amphetamine with the lowest risk of neurotoxicity. Why? Because it induces less Norepinephrine agonism than Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine mixed salts) and less Serotonin antagonism than Desoxyn. Dopamine agonism does not seem to be nearly as harmful. Our brains are more likely to repair dimished dopamine than serotonin.

Methylphenidate is strictly a reuptake inhibitor, which has actually been found to be neuroprotective.

Desoxyn's higher potential for neurotoxicity seems to be directly related to it's Serotonin agonism. So...

I'm wondering if taking an SSRI (like Celexa, which I take currently) helps to prevent any potential neurotoxicity caused by Desoxyn's serotonin agonism.

Anyone know?

tambourine-man
12-24-11, 03:01 PM
Oops, I meant antagonist in all the places I used agonist. Also, I've seen no evidence that therapeutic doses of Desoxyn are significantly neurotoxic, but that the possibility of neurotoxicity is much higher.

Can anyone chime in with an answer to my question? I'm very interested. Methylphenidate can protect the brain from possible depletion of dopamine, so couldn't an SSRI do the same for serotonin?

Jr1985
12-25-11, 10:25 AM
Toxicity isn't due to neurotransmitter depletion, it's actually because the drug increases the amount of them in the extra cellular space. Dopamine, for insurance, is an oxidising agent, the metabolizes of which can block cellular respiration. So too much dopamine is neurotoxic.

Desoxyn + SSRI could potentially lead to serotonin syndrome since they both increase serotonin, although I imagine this would be unlikely.

amu_d
12-26-11, 02:40 AM
At desoxyn level doses, it does not increase baseline levels of serotonin directly as its affinity is too low to do so, d-meth becomes neurotoxic when it produces enough DA to overwhelms the body's endogenous supply of anti-oxidants, which slowly adapts to gradual increases in dose.

I do not think it is beneficial for you to add an SSRI to desoxyn dose d-meth, in the case of blocking neurotoxicity, and also, be wary of simply taking PubMed abstracts over seriously.

Education and the spread of knowledge is important and fantastic, however it is becoming increasingly common for people to draw conclusions from PubMed abstracts.

twinch42085
12-27-11, 06:53 PM
Oops, I meant antagonist in all the places I used agonist. Also, I've seen no evidence that therapeutic doses of Desoxyn are significantly neurotoxic, but that the possibility of neurotoxicity is much higher.

Can anyone chime in with an answer to my question? I'm very interested. Methylphenidate can protect the brain from possible depletion of dopamine, so couldn't an SSRI do the same for serotonin?
Desoxyn even at therapeutic levels (low dosages) still has a higher concentration of neurotoxicity effects on the dopamine receptor. It isn't as neurotoxic as street meth but overtime can still produce the same effects on the brain like that of schizophrenia or Alzheimer's.

Don't take an SSRI with Desoxyn......you're creating a speedball effect on your brain juice.

Read an up to date chemistry book by notable chemists/doctors etc.....PubMed isn't reliable IMO

Yellow
01-06-12, 05:34 AM
i answered in ur journal but people are generally right. main factor = dosages. a small amt of of an ssri with a normal amt of d-meth could prevent neurotoxicity, whereas a normal/high dose of an ssri with just one mg over the line of d-meth = serotonin syndrome. i wouldnt combine if i didnt have to, and since d-meth is really an anti depressant and seems to lessen ur anxiety, maybe try to go as low or not at all on the ssri

D3s0xyn
01-22-12, 06:14 AM
My understanding is that at ADHD doses Desoxyn primary acts a reuptake inhibitor at lwo doses and may even have a neuroprotective effects. I know they're some studies on this, will link them when i trawl through my bookmarks. It's only at higher does where it acts as a releasing agent and has neurotoxic effects. This neurotoxicity is primarly caused by oxidative stress, i.e the excessive dopamine and norepinephrine gets oxidized by MAO and this causes as a biproduct oxidants like peroxides that kill the cell

I don't think SSRI + Low doses Desoxyn would be particularly dangerous since the serotonergic effects of Desoxyn are fairly small, but then again I'm no doctor just some teenager

I know MDMA + SSRIs are sometimes combined to reduce neurotoxicity, MDMA acts primary as a serotonin releasing agent, inhibiting the reuptake prevents MAO from oxidizing the excess serotonin reducing neurotoxicity.

While OP's question involves SSRIs, I don't think they help prevent amphetamine neurotoxicity because this neurotoxicity is from the dopamine and norepinephrine being oxidised.

The analgous neurotoxicity reduction combo would be Desoxyn + DRI like Ritalin but I suspect the ritalin would attenuate the effects.

It also goes without saying that all these combos I'm talking about are speculation and should never be attempted without medical advice

Also I don't think Serotonin agonism can be prevented by reuptake inhibition, only serotonin releasing agent effects. I think for reducing the serotonin agonism an atypical antipsychotic in a pinch could be used but that would probably destroy any good effects from the desoxyn

Hope this helps, sorry for raving on a bit
d3s0xyn

FocusPocus10
10-23-14, 03:08 PM
Desoxyn even at therapeutic levels (low dosages) still has a higher concentration of neurotoxicity effects on the dopamine receptor. It isn't as neurotoxic as street meth but overtime can still produce the same effects on the brain like that of schizophrenia or Alzheimer's.

Don't take an SSRI with Desoxyn......you're creating a speedball effect on your brain juice.

Read an up to date chemistry book by notable chemists/doctors etc.....PubMed isn't reliable IMO

Why is Pubmed unreliable? They have research published every day involving peer reviewed double blind studies. I agree one study does not mean you should go out and do what they did in the study, but it is worth something. Which books and chemists exactly should we be reading instead?