View Full Version : Clonidine | Guanfacine | Propranolol


known_guy
01-08-12, 02:37 PM
I have co-morbid anxiety along with my ADHD and I believe that stimulants may exacerbate my nervous habit (psychomotor agitation) but the pros outweigh the con(s), in my opinion. Nevertheless, this is a problem that concerns me and I was wondering if any of sympatholytic medications typically prescribed for ADHD or a beta blocker can help to mitigate harmful side-effects, especially the psychomotor agitation I mentioned.

I have Klonopin that I've been prescribed but I dislike taking benzodiazepines because I think they dumb me down; plus, I wish to be careful with Klonopin. I happen to have some leftover Propranolol (20mg) and so I took a dose along with my Adderall yesterday. And it really helped! (I think.) So I was wondering how Propranolol compares to medications prescribed for ADHD - Guanfacine and Clonidine. Can or do they help with anxiety?

Kaimei
01-08-12, 03:37 PM
I was given propranolol for my anxiety, and found it to be, by far, the most effective thing I tried. No side effects, no sedating effects, no negatives for me what so ever.

hollywood
01-09-12, 10:12 PM
So I heard that propranol can be sedating? And cause weight gain? Is this for physical anxiety?

known_guy
01-09-12, 10:25 PM
Hmm. I do not find propranolol to be sedating. When it was prescribed to me for anxiety I was taking it 3 times a day, but only for a month. I didn't gain weight during that time. I do believe that it is for physical anxiety, not so much mental/emotional anxiety. At one point when I was in the hospital I wasn't given my dose because my blood pressure was "too low". I hope that taking propranolol regularly doesn't cause hypertension...

namazu
01-09-12, 10:38 PM
I take clonidine (recently approved for ADHD in an extended-release form as Kapvay).

I have not found it to help with anxiety, per se. It does help me significantly with physical restlessness, though, as well as with a tic-like/OCD-family compulsive behavior. I don't find it sedating.

I'm not sure what it would or wouldn't do to combat stimulant-induced psychomotor agitation as opposed to "endogenous" restlessness.

It's been prescribed (off-label until recently) for years to kids (and now adults) with ADHD who have
- problems with aggression/severe impulsivity/hyperactivity,
- comorbid tic disorders (e.g. Tourette's), and
- problems falling sleep.

It's also used as an antihypertensive, so it would be unlikely to raise your blood pressure (unless you stopped taking it suddenly).

I know less about guanfacine and nothing about propanolol.

known_guy
01-09-12, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the info. My nervous/anxious habit I think lies somewhere on or near the OCD spectrum. I believe they consider it to be an impulse-control disorder? Skin-picking. :X I was just reading up on psychomotor agitation, and I'm not so sure it fits after all. I don't find myself pacing or wringing my hands or what-have-you.

namazu
01-09-12, 11:01 PM
Thanks for the info. My nervous/anxious habit I think lies somewhere on or near the OCD spectrum. I believe they consider it to be an impulse-control disorder? Skin-picking. :X I was just reading up on psychomotor agitation, and I'm not so sure it fits after all. I don't find myself pacing or wringing my hands or what-have-you.
Skin-picking wasn't formally in the DSM before, but it looks like it'll get added this time around.

Like hair-pulling, it looks like they're planning to place it with "OCD spectrum" disorders (a change from before, where hair-pulling was grouped with "impulse-control" disorders like kleptomania, etc.).

But my best read of things is that there's a lot of uncertainty about compulsive behavior vs. impulse-control issues vs. addictions, etc. Lots of mushy unclear areas.

Anyway, I found clonidine somewhat helpful for hair pulling/skin picking. But with a recent change in other meds, may have lost some ground there. Ask me again in a month or two...

hollywood
01-10-12, 07:27 PM
I seem to get stuck and cannot focus at these periods I worry about why I cannot focus ? Is that worrying because ssris make everything worse

Kaimei
01-10-12, 07:52 PM
So I heard that propranol can be sedating? And cause weight gain? Is this for physical anxiety?

It wasn't sedating at all, for me, just calming, nor did I have any weight gain issues.

It can work for physical or mental anxiety, though the mechanism is purely physical. Basically, it reduces the physical symptoms of anxiety - helps keep your heart rate normal, blood pressure steady, etc. This, in turn, helps keep your mind calm, because it's not being bombarded with fight or flight messages from the body.

Anxiety is not all about pacing or wringing your hands. It can have really subtle effects, like skin-picking, etc. Read up a little bit on the central nervous system, the parasympathetic and sympathetic reactions, and you'll see how calming the physical symptoms can have a positive effect on the mental ones.

hollywood
01-10-12, 08:14 PM
I suspect my anxiety comes with the onset of physical symptoms and cascaded from that point

known_guy
01-11-12, 05:56 PM
Second day trying Propranolol, this time without stimulant medications. By golly...I swear this stuff really helps! I really don't think there's a placebo effect going on. It's definitely subtle in effects, but in a positive way. Benzodiazepines like Ativan/Klonopin/Xanax make me feel stupid. Inderal doesn't do that - I remain 100% lucid. :D

dsvlil1
01-11-12, 09:36 PM
I don't fair well with benzos either.
I found clonidine to be incredibly effective for hyperactive/nervous symptoms, unfortunately it dropped my bp too much.

hollywood
01-11-12, 11:53 PM
Huh, lucid? WTF? Anyways maybe I will try propranolol !

known_guy
01-12-12, 12:28 AM
Lucid? Uh, yes, lucid.

lu·cid/ˈlo͞osid/

<table class="ts"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-bottom:5px;padding-top:5px;color:#666" valign="top" width="80px">Adjective:</td><td style="padding-bottom:5px;padding-top:5px" valign="top"><table class="ts"><tbody><tr><td>

Expressed clearly; easy to understand: "a clear and lucid style".
Showing ability to think clearly, esp. in the intervals between periods of confusion or insanity.

</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>There have been times when other medications like benzodiazepines made me feel blunted. In contrast, the Inderal doesn't seem to impair cognitive functioning. BPD was so named to describe patients who seemed to be on the borderline between neurosis and psychosis. So I believe the word is an appropriate one to use in this context - in my case in particular, rather.

Kaimei
01-12-12, 12:38 AM
The one and only time my doctors tried me on Xanax, it knocked me out for 8 hours, I woke up feeling like utter hell, and I had a medication 'hang over' that left me useless for another 24 hours. I was groggy, couldn't think straight, couldn't drive, could barely talk, and felt like I'd been kicked down a hill in a barrel filled with rocks. And that was on a small dose, with no other medications.

known_guy
01-12-12, 12:44 AM
I remember receiving my first dose of Xanax too... It knocked me out within half an hour. Doctors had me on that stuff for days. Doses way too strong for me. I felt like a zombie.

hollywood
01-12-12, 02:25 AM
Lucid~

Silly me! Being in the realm of psychological definitions and being ADHD is a psychiatric disorder I always referred to lucid as periods of clear thought after periods of delusion! Hence, lucid would in this context be arguably f#**ing nuts! Yet.... Too Shay .

Mimi77
01-16-12, 05:37 PM
Hi, I just started Intuniv (1 mg) 3 days ago and the first day it made me slep for 12 hours and sleep for a couple hours during the day, the seocnd day I skipped it cuz i didn't want to sleep so much, and last night Itook it again and slept 12 hours. When is the best time to take it in general? Should I take it earlier a couple hours before I sleep so I can sleep at a normal time and wake up at a normal time? I don't have trouble sleeping, in fact I have trouble waking up before noon. So will this sedative effect go away soon?

hollywood
01-16-12, 09:49 PM
Ha ha that totally sucks. Did that to me too , couldn't take it

known_guy
01-16-12, 10:48 PM
Shoot, and I heard that Clonidine can be very sedating. I guess I'll see if I can give Guanfacine a shot (Tenex because I don't want to pay extra money) if my doctor is supportive of the idea.

Eh, actually I will propose both and see what response I get.

Mimi77
01-16-12, 11:05 PM
So the sedative effect will always be there?

hollywood
01-16-12, 11:06 PM
Maybe take small
Dose tenex at night to adjust. Yeah it's sedating that's why it helps PTSD . it helps memory though

Mimi77
01-16-12, 11:07 PM
and what if i increase the dosage? i get more sleepy? i would ask my doc this but he is unavailable :/

Blueranne
01-16-12, 11:23 PM
Holy frekkin cow... I used to have Trichotillomania (hair pulling) way bad, not on my head, but almost all of my eye brows, bottom eye lashes, and arm hair. Then I increased my beta-blocker dose and without even realizing it I stopped pulling. Just now after reading this thread have I put two and two together. Wow! I'm really shocked!

I use a beta-blocker daily and Xanax as needed. I could live without either of them.

hollywood
01-17-12, 09:44 AM
if your sleepy now increasing the dose will only make it alot worse. Maybe half the pill of intuniv if you can't hack it. I upped the dose when I was doing okay on it and holy sheister.... I fell asleep at work several times, I had to go on the break couch it was so bad. LOL , in a weird strange odd way I was I bit more focused. The only reason I believe it helps with focus is that we with adhd need stimulants, the stimulants help a great deal but they help with being alert and some other way to become focused in the brain. Its almost like your almost there even when your really focused for example like me I'm only perfectly focused at night and this I believe is because there are no distractions to get me tense. The tenex kind of releases that tense feeling during the day " the feeling of being pulled a million different ways to do things " that stimulants can really only in a way make worse if your stressed. " Ie " alot to do , I notice the alpha agonist get rid of that feeling . Hence focusing becomes much easier.

So in my theory , I think that ssri's are supposed to do this as well for stress. Yet the stress and anxiety that becomes the key role player in adhd is alot different , it's more of a processing issue. You take the stimulant and then depending on your age and level of stress you can still become all over the place. YOur focused but don't even realize it because there is too much to do.. Overload, stimulants do not help that, they make it worse alot of times. So the doc throws you an ssri , you wake up , you get pulled a million different ways, take the ssri and cognition worsens... You then make errors and wonder what is going on. I think this is where clonidine and tenex fit into the equation. Even if you have stress like this daily , and you cannot focus , you may even develop a defense mechanism in the midbrain which is involuntary. For example instead of being pulled that way you focus on or try to hyper focus on a few things that are problem oriented and self involved and this pulls your mind in and pulls you away from stressors which is a direct defense mechanism for channeling overload. For issues like this you must either pick an ssri that is mild and you can adjust to which would for sure help or try something like intuniv, tenex or clonidine. I think those are the best options.

Blueranne
01-17-12, 11:12 AM
I use a beta-blocker daily and Xanax as needed. I could[n't] live without either of them.

Fixed

hollywood
01-17-12, 12:02 PM
yeah, glad you fixed that. I looked at it and kind of went huh. That makes little sense.

my4swtzn04
01-17-12, 10:25 PM
I remember receiving my first dose of Xanax too... It knocked me out within half an hour. Doctors had me on that stuff for days. Doses way too strong for me. I felt like a zombie.

I metabolizes meds so quickly I can take 2mg of xanax and 2hrs later it's gone! Of course I've had anxiety issues for years so I've built up a tolerance to that level (most take .5mg and they're out cold.) I was prescribed 2mg every 8hrs and needed it! Then I finally said I want off and in 6wks slowly weaned myself off.. I hated that zoned out feeling when it was in my blood stream, or chest thumping/can't breathe feeling when it wasn't as I waited for my next dosing. I take it PRN now, very rarely!

hollywood
01-19-12, 09:42 AM
is this post relevant?

Blueranne
01-19-12, 10:55 AM
Yes...

hollywood
01-19-12, 03:50 PM
well the part well you mentioned propranol does . So I'll give you partial credit. 50% ! beats nothing though.

Blueranne
01-19-12, 04:13 PM
Hollywood what's the issue here?

hollywood
01-19-12, 05:04 PM
Just a bad day, and I was being rude. I'm sorry. I tried adderall and it made me feel horrible and it cut into my sleep so I ditched it. This is the hangover effect. my bad.

willinabox
02-02-12, 04:51 PM
Has anyone done Wellbutrin in combination with Tenex/proprinol/clonide or w/e the **** is out there...to counteract the sedation...does caffeine work?

known_guy
02-04-12, 12:45 AM
I've taken Propranolol with Wellbutrin (and my stimulant medications) and also Strattera with Propranolol (and Ritalin SR).

Since I haven't tried Guanfacine or Clonidine I can't tell you if Wellbutrin helps to negate sedation. On Inderal/Propranolol with Wellbutrin and such, I do not experience sedation?

ceebee
05-22-12, 11:15 AM
I have co-morbid anxiety along with my ADHD and I believe that stimulants may exacerbate my nervous habit (psychomotor agitation) but the pros outweigh the con(s), in my opinion. Nevertheless, this is a problem that concerns me and I was wondering if any of sympatholytic medications typically prescribed for ADHD or a beta blocker can help to mitigate harmful side-effects, especially the psychomotor agitation I mentioned.

I have Klonopin that I've been prescribed but I dislike taking benzodiazepines because I think they dumb me down; plus, I wish to be careful with Klonopin. I happen to have some leftover Propranolol (20mg) and so I took a dose along with my Adderall yesterday. And it really helped! (I think.) So I was wondering how Propranolol compares to medications prescribed for ADHD - Guanfacine and Clonidine. Can or do they help with anxiety?\

Just my HO but I think you are pretty smart in limiting the amount of Clonazepam (Klonopin) you take. Benzos got me into a lot of trouble and I had to slowly taper off them completely. Now I only use them PRN for periods of high anxiety, and do not see them as a long-term solution for anxiety.