View Full Version : Slept in....... AGAIN!


Fraser_0762
01-25-12, 07:15 PM
I feel awful today. I was supposed to be up early this morning to attend a 2 day course to get this "licence" which would improve my chances of finding work in a warehouse, and I totally blew it.

I could not get a wink of sleep last night. I turned everything off at 10pm and lied there in my bed staring at the darkness surrounding me, then before I knew it, it was 6 in the morning, then my mind eventually "crashed" (as it does). But i needed to be up in like 1 hour (7am), but didn't wake up until 2pm! :eek:

When my mum came in from work, she asked me how I got on at my course, and I totally lied to her and told her I had a good day (even although I hadn't actually turned up). :(

I feel awful, lazy, a liar, a complete waste of space....

I need a hug. :(

BR549
01-25-12, 07:16 PM
((((Hugs))))

It can (and probably has) happened to most of us. :)

I know it's happened to me many times!

babidi
01-26-12, 01:42 AM
What meds are you on?

Maybe you need a sleeping pill such as ambien or seroquel at 9 pm.

spunkysmum
01-26-12, 01:48 AM
I very rarely sleep in, whether I'm on meds or off, if I have to be somewhere. But I have definitely experienced the trouble falling asleep. If I have to be up in an hour I usually say screw it and stay up.

-Nick-
01-26-12, 07:48 AM
SEROQUEL IS NOT A SLEEPING PILL.

SEROQUEL IS AN ANTIPSYCHOTIC.

Honestly, seriously, and extremely importantly - the 'hypnotic' effect is actually an undesirable side-effect of the medication (Quetiapine, I don't know why people use brand-names).

It's an antagonist of pretty much every bloody neurotransmitter in the brain. It is NOT to be taken lightly! Unless you are clinically psychotic or having an acute manic episode, leave it alone!

There are many effective sleeping tablets on the market. The Z-drugs (e.g. Zopiclone, Zolpidem) are an effective first-line treatment for insomnia. To be fair to babidi, Ambien is a brand-name of Zolpidem.

Sorry to rant, but I see a lot of people on these forums giving erroneous and potentially dangerous medical advice, particularly regarding medication. Before you ask, I have a Pharmacology degree, and I'm only trying to help.

:)

GeordieDave
01-26-12, 08:11 AM
Sorry to hear this, I am on a one month experience, did well for 1 week then this week I have been sleeping well but I can't wake up properly and stay in bed and decide to not go in :( It annoys me so much. I have rang them and I said that I am ill but.. it looks so bad :(

Dont know how to stop doing this!

Fraser_0762
01-26-12, 08:55 AM
What meds are you on?

Maybe you need a sleeping pill such as ambien or seroquel at 9 pm.

I'm currently un-medicated and un-diagnosed.

It's frustrating, because sometimes I feel like I can concentrate on something if i'm really interested in it or if I can summon up enough effort. But getting that initial feeling of motivation to get me started on something is extremely difficult to come by.

Fraser_0762
01-26-12, 08:58 AM
I got a better sleep last night, but still slept in until 12pm as I didn't get to sleep until about 4.

Usually I just give up and turn all my stuff back on again and stay up, but i've been trying to make an effort lately to get some proper sleep routeen for once in my life.

-Nick-
01-26-12, 08:59 AM
I can do anything I put my mind to... I just can't put my mind to anything.

Fraser_0762
01-26-12, 09:00 AM
lol yep, that pretty much somes me up too! :)

cameron90
01-26-12, 09:02 AM
I agree that antipsychotics should be used JUST for sleep, and you should only really consider taking one if for the purposes indicated: psychotic disorders, bipolar, mood stabilizer at low dose in conjunction with an antidepressant.

Have you tried melatonin? It doesn't really do much for me personally but I know that a lot of people use it to regulate their sleep cycles and for things like jet lag. Give it a try before moving onto any kind of OTC or prescription sleeping aid.

Fraser_0762
01-26-12, 09:04 AM
I agree that antipsychotics should be used JUST for sleep, and you should only really consider taking one if for the purposes indicated: psychotic disorders, bipolar, mood stabilizer at low dose in conjunction with an antidepressant.

Have you tried melatonin? It doesn't really do much for me personally but I know that a lot of people use it to regulate their sleep cycles and for things like jet lag. Give it a try before moving onto any kind of OTC or prescription sleeping aid.

I wouldn't describe myself as really having any mood disorders. I just feel like my mind is racing away too much at night to get some decent sleep.

I can get 8 hours of undesturbed sleep, but I never actually feel like i've slept for 8 hours.

cameron90
01-26-12, 09:10 AM
Give melatonin a try, just take it 30 minutes before you want to try to sleep and see if it helps. It has been shown to be helpful for some people who lack naturally occurring melatonin and also for people who are on stimulant medications. Exercise during the day may also help and turning off all electronics such as your computer, phone, tablet, etc. right before sleep helps me because it lets my mind slow down

babidi
01-26-12, 05:46 PM
SEROQUEL IS NOT A SLEEPING PILL.

SEROQUEL IS AN ANTIPSYCHOTIC.

Honestly, seriously, and extremely importantly - the 'hypnotic' effect is actually an undesirable side-effect of the medication (Quetiapine, I don't know why people use brand-names).

It's an antagonist of pretty much every bloody neurotransmitter in the brain. It is NOT to be taken lightly! Unless you are clinically psychotic or having an acute manic episode, leave it alone!

There are many effective sleeping tablets on the market. The Z-drugs (e.g. Zopiclone, Zolpidem) are an effective first-line treatment for insomnia. To be fair to babidi, Ambien is a brand-name of Zolpidem.

Sorry to rant, but I see a lot of people on these forums giving erroneous and potentially dangerous medical advice, particularly regarding medication. Before you ask, I have a Pharmacology degree, and I'm only trying to help.

:)

What's wrong with using brand names? I know Doctors who know what Stilnox/Ambien is, but have had no idea what Zolpidem is.


Quetiapine/Seroquel at low doses (25 mg to 100 mg) is commonly/popularly prescribed "off-label" for insomnia in Australia/USA:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15029469

http://www.forbes.com/2004/09/08/cx_mh_0908seroquel.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16901376


Quetiapine/Seroquel at low doses is not an antipsychotic - it's a sedating antihistamine:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html

http://www.europeanneuropsychopharmacology.com/article/S0924-977X%2800%2900133-4/abstract

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/08/arent_two_antipsychotics_bette.html


It's not only Benzos and Z-drugs that treat insomnia:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/treating_insomnia_with_less.html


I've even heard/read doctors/psychiatrist prescribe the antipsychotic Olanzapine/Zyprexa at 2.5 mg to 5 mg for insomnia/sleep.


It's obvious you're not familiar with the pharmacological actions of antipsychotics such as Quetiapine/Seroquel.

Maybe you're not familiar with this because you're in the UK - which might be different to Australia/USA.

-Nick-
01-27-12, 06:33 AM
If you want a sedating antihistamine, just use any off-the-shelf sleep aid.

And don't be so bloody rude!

babidi
01-27-12, 08:01 AM
If you want a sedating antihistamine, just use any off-the-shelf sleep aid.

And don't be so bloody rude!

I reckon Quetiapine is a better/stronger sleeping pill compared to other sedating antihistamines such as diphenhydramine, doxylamine and promethazine. It's popular for a reason.

babidi
01-27-12, 08:04 AM
I'm currently un-medicated and un-diagnosed.

It's frustrating, because sometimes I feel like I can concentrate on something if i'm really interested in it or if I can summon up enough effort. But getting that initial feeling of motivation to get me started on something is extremely difficult to come by.

You should get yourself diagnosed.

Pumbaa
01-27-12, 08:27 AM
Lots of hugsssss

Do you have much caffeine during the day or sugar? That can keep you awake.

Do you have a boring textbook or movie? I have some pretty boring stuff that puts me to sleep fast.

Hot shower, boring textbook, and mindfulness counting where you breathe slowly and deeply from your stomach and count to 10 with each breath. It is hard to make it past the number 3 without getting distracted but for some reason this is relaxing.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 10:19 AM
Lots of hugsssss

Do you have much caffeine during the day or sugar? That can keep you awake.

Do you have a boring textbook or movie? I have some pretty boring stuff that puts me to sleep fast.

Hot shower, boring textbook, and mindfulness counting where you breathe slowly and deeply from your stomach and count to 10 with each breath. It is hard to make it past the number 3 without getting distracted but for some reason this is relaxing.

I take 2 high doses of caffeine. Usually at 9am followed by a back up dose at 1pm (usually half the amount of the 9am dose).

Surely as long as I don't consume any more stimulants past 1pm, I should get to sleep fine?

But I generally don't get to sleep late, even if i've gone a day or few without caffeine.

Yeah, I need a hot shower at night..... just as much as I need a cold one in the morning! :D

I hate opening up any book these days when I know i'm not going to get anywhere near 1% of completing it.:(

seraphynx
01-27-12, 11:46 AM
If you want a sedating antihistamine, just use any off-the-shelf sleep aid.


Yeah, but for long-term use, since somnolence is simply a side effect of antihistamines, it typically subsides and the user has to take a higher amount to get the same sedating effect.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 11:48 AM
Hey guys, I appeciate the advice on sedative drugs. But I personally just want to focus on getting myself on proper stimulant medication first.

I don't want to be one of those "50 pills a day" people. :p

-Nick-
01-27-12, 12:05 PM
Fraser_0762 have you tried cutting out caffeine altogether? I can't have it at any point in the day without my sleep being disrupted to some degree. I couldn't find any proof that it actually helps concentration, either; other than keeping you from falling asleep!

I've basically cut out coffee unless I am absolutely going to fall asleep. Maybe I'm sensitised to it? I used to drink loads. Seriously though I'd think about cutting out the coffee for a while.

Another trick you can try is, regardless of when you fall asleep, make yourself wake up at, say, 7:00 am, and then try to stay awake all day. Usually you can shock yourself back into a reasonable sleeping pattern by inducing this sort of mild sleep-deprivation. Again, that's something that works for me.

I have to say actually that what you're describing sounds quite a lot like me, and I wonder if you've considered if you might have a mild case of co-morbid depression? Have a read about 'atypical depression' and see if you think it sounds like you at all.

-Nick-
01-27-12, 12:06 PM
Anti-histamine sleeping tablets only ever seem to kick in the next morning for me!

seraphynx
01-27-12, 12:07 PM
Hey guys, I appeciate the advice on sedative drugs. But I personally just want to focus on getting myself on proper stimulant medication first.

I don't want to be one of those "50 pills a day" people. :p

Personally, stimulants themselves have helped me sleep better. Being on a normal schedule (not staying up all night), having to take them in the morning (XR), and by the time they wear off, I am incredibly sleepy.

Hopefully something works similarly for you.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 12:18 PM
Nick - I've tried going cold turkey from caffeine. I even gave it up for a few months avoiding anything that could contain any traces of caffeine all together. The reason I did this was because I wanted to test and see if my conentration problems were a direct cause of caffeine withdrawl. But after 3 gruelling months without caffeine, I came to the conclusion that I simply couldn't function at all.

I often find that caffeine tends to have a more "physical" effect on me than "mentally". Caffeine makes me feel more motivated and physcially energetic which allows me to get some things done around the house. It doesn't however really help with my conentration that much and my mind still feels really cloudy and lost in thought.

Seraphynx - When you say "XR" I assume you're talking about Adderall XR? I don't know if Adderall is legal here in the UK, i've never met or heard of anybody over here who actually takes it. I'm just wondering if a different stimulant other than caffeine will have more of a beneficial effect on me "mentally" other that the "physical" UP that consuming caffeine gives me.

-Nick-
01-27-12, 12:24 PM
Adderall isn't available in the UK.

-Nick-
01-27-12, 12:25 PM
But XR can just mean an extended release formulation of anything, I think.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 12:30 PM
But XR can just mean an extended release formulation of anything, I think.

I sometimes get confused. I often hear people referring to "ER" instead. Is that not just the same thing as "XR"?

I only ever hear "XR" being mentioned when it concerns Adderall, other stimulants seem to have independant names, such as Ritalin being called "Concerta" in its extended release form.

cameron90
01-27-12, 12:46 PM
I sometimes get confused. I often hear people referring to "ER" instead. Is that not just the same thing as "XR"?

I only ever hear "XR" being mentioned when it concerns Adderall, other stimulants seem to have independant names, such as Ritalin being called "Concerta" in its extended release form.

ER and XR are the same, some medications use one or the other in their names -- both are EXtended release. It can be pretty confusing, especially since there are only a few stimulants but in their different formulations there are multiple names. Here in the Netherlands I am on dexamfetamine generic instant release, which I think is the only dextroamphetamine formulation available, although I know that there are some of the different methylphenidate formulations available. I used to be on dextroamphetamine spansules, which is the ER/XR formulation of dexedrine. I don't believe Adderall or the amphetamine salt formulation is available here as well, correct me if I'm wrong please.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 12:50 PM
Is dex available in the UK, even although Adderall isn't?

-Nick-
01-27-12, 01:14 PM
Dexedrine is available in the UK, it's the second-line treatment after methylphenidate (according to the NICE guidelines). After that it's atomoxetine, I think, as the 'third-line' treatment.

You can have... XR, ER, MR ("modified" release)... there's no standard notation, basically. Then you've got all the different brand-names, etc...
:umm1:

That's why I alway prefer to use the chemical name for a drug (i.e. generic)! It gets too confusing otherwise.

-Nick-
01-27-12, 01:17 PM
Actually I think Dexedrine might be a brand name! It's just dextroamphetamine; which is basically just amphetamine.

Regular amphetamine can come in two forms, identical like your left-hand and your right-hand, and dextroamphetamine is the (much) more active one.

Pumbaa
01-27-12, 07:28 PM
I take 2 high doses of caffeine. Usually at 9am followed by a back up dose at 1pm (usually half the amount of the 9am dose).

Surely as long as I don't consume any more stimulants past 1pm, I should get to sleep fine?

But I generally don't get to sleep late, even if i've gone a day or few without caffeine.

Yeah, I need a hot shower at night..... just as much as I need a cold one in the morning! :D

I hate opening up any book these days when I know i'm not going to get anywhere near 1% of completing it.:(

I think it is good you are trying to solve this without more pills. I don't want to be a pill person either. I liked the idea of setting the alarm to get up in the morning at 7 or 8am. Then plan your bedtime and develop some sort of relaxing routine. Yeah with the book, that is the point. It is something I would never want to read haha! So it only matters if it makes me bored and sleepy. I think you can train yourself to get to sleep over time though.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 07:36 PM
I think it is good you are trying to solve this without more pills. I don't want to be a pill person either. I liked the idea of setting the alarm to get up in the morning at 7 or 8am. Then plan your bedtime and develop some sort of relaxing routine. Yeah with the book, that is the point. It is something I would never want to read haha! So it only matters if it makes me bored and sleepy. I think you can train yourself to get to sleep over time though.

I set my alarm all the time at night, the only problem is, I probably reset it about 10x in the morning. :lol: (The sleep function is my best friend, but also my worst enemy. :))

Thanks for the book advice, i'll have to give it a go once i get a hold of a book from somewhere.

I may get into watching night time politics on the TV, i'm sure that would put me to sleep relatively quickly. :D

seraphynx
01-27-12, 11:37 PM
When you say "XR" I assume you're talking about Adderall XR? I don't know if Adderall is legal here in the UK, i've never met or heard of anybody over here who actually takes it. I'm just wondering if a different stimulant other than caffeine will have more of a beneficial effect on me "mentally" other that the "physical" UP that consuming caffeine gives me.

Yeah, I was referring to adderall, as ritalin is usually LA or SR (although people do use the terms interchangeably). However, when I was on ritalin LA, it had a similar scheduling effect. That is disappointing about less availability of medications in the UK and Europe.

-Nick-
01-28-12, 04:40 AM
Jesus you are SO right about the snooze button. I hate mornings more than most things I can think of.

Makennan
01-28-12, 06:56 PM
Just adding my two cents....when I regularly went to the gym I slept like a baby at night. I noticed a HUGE difference.

Fraser_0762
01-28-12, 11:17 PM
Just adding my two cents....when I regularly went to the gym I slept like a baby at night. I noticed a HUGE difference.

I think burning energy is what I need as well. But the problem is, I never actually stick with something.

I might stick with the gym for 2-3 days, then i'll simply give up on it.

Fraser_0762
01-28-12, 11:24 PM
.......

BR549
01-28-12, 11:33 PM
The gym IS boring. Hard to stick with something you aren't interested in or having fun doing. Have you thought about taking a class at the gym? Turbo-kick, yoga, lifting? What about having a friend meet you at the gym? I do better with sticking to the gym if I know someone is waiting for me.

When I was younger, I had a HARD time getting up in the morning. In college, I had to be at work at 6:00 a.m., which meant getting up at 4:00 a.m. to get ready (big 80's hair doesn't happen in 15 minutes :p). What I would do is set three or four alarm clocks and put them in different places in my room. All were set to go off at 4:00 a.m. What I did was set the regular time on each one about 10 minutes faster than the others. That way, they all went off in ten minute intervals. The first to go off was by my bed. So when it went off, it was actually 3:40 a.m. The next to go off was on my dresser, across the room. When it went off it was actually 3:50 and I HAD to get out of bed to turn it off. The last one went off at 4:00 a.m. It was even further away, in my bathroom. By the time I got out of bed for the second time, I was already in the bathroom and already somewhat awake. I was more inclined to start getting ready at that point. I still do similar things now to ensure I wake up.

It's been said that it takes 66 consecutive days of doing something before it becomes a habit. I'm usually in the habit range at about two weeks or so. Those first two weeks are the hardest!

A set sleep and wake schedule could really help you out.

Fraser_0762
01-28-12, 11:37 PM
The gym IS boring. Hard to stick with something you aren't interested in or having fun doing. Have you thought about taking a class at the gym? Turbo-kick, yoga, lifting? What about having a friend meet you at the gym? I do better with sticking to the gym if I know someone is waiting for me.

When I was younger, I had a HARD time getting up in the morning. In college, I had to be at work at 6:00 a.m., which meant getting up at 4:00 a.m. to get ready (big 80's hair doesn't happen in 15 minutes :p). What I would do is set three or four alarm clocks and put them in different places in my room. All were set to go off at 4:00 a.m. What I did was set the regular time on each one about 10 minutes faster than the others. That way, they all went off in ten minute intervals. The first to go off was by my bed. So when it went off, it was actually 3:40 a.m. The next to go off was on my dresser, across the room. When it went off it was actually 3:50 and I HAD to get out of bed to turn it off. The last one went off at 4:00 a.m. It was even further away, in my bathroom. By the time I got out of bed for the second time, I was already in the bathroom and already somewhat awake. I was more inclined to start getting ready at that point. I still do similar things now to ensure I wake up.

It's been said that it takes 66 consecutive days of doing something before it becomes a habit. I'm usually in the habit range at about two weeks or so. Those first two weeks are the hardest!

A set sleep and wake schedule could really help you out.

Theres a huge Bannatyne gym just 10 minutes down the road from me, and they do a hell of a lot of classes, they have a huge swimming pool and you can even get a personal motivator (now if only i could find one that would motivate me 24/7 :scratch:)

It's been there for years! and i've never gotton round to signing up. It is kind of expensive, especially if you aren't working. i went in for a tour once because I was seriously considering it, but like everything else, i just don't get round to actually starting it.

GeordieDave
01-29-12, 05:06 AM
I have signed up to a small gym down the road, it's not too bad... I force myself to go from time to time. I tend to feel really bored, lost and awkward when I go.

Pumbaa
01-29-12, 07:41 AM
So after I said that i was wide awake until 2am. I don't remember what I was doing but I was hyperfocused. I fell asleep right away when I decided to but was up at 5am grrrrr.

So I was tired all day blah.

Makennan
01-29-12, 01:49 PM
My husband used to have to drag me to the gym. That is, until he got sick of being my cheerleader. Now I don't go at all. Having someone meet you there is a great motivator and classes are good too. That way you have to stay for the duration instead of stopping after 15 minutes.

BR549, I used to do that with the alarm clock too, setting them fast and having one across the room. Now I have kids who are far louder and more persistent than any alarm to wake me in the mornings. :)

CheekyMonkey
01-29-12, 06:13 PM
One of the best investments for sleeping I've made is a "natural light" alarm clock. The light "sets" as I go to sleep, tricking my body into getting sleepy. The light in on a timer and slowly comes on in the morning so that by the time it is full light, I naturally wake up. It is awesome!

I have this one

http://www.amazon.com/BioBrite-Sunrise-Clock-Advanced-Charcoal/dp/B00196LFIU/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1327875179&sr=8-7