View Full Version : ADHD brought on by Head Injury & Piracetam


tizak
01-27-12, 03:02 PM
Head injuries, concussions and ADHD. I self diagnose myself as having Sluggish Cognitive Tempo Syndrome, principally a working memory problem.

This diagnosis is not yet officially recognized, but with authorities that include Dr. Barkley, the well known ADHD researcher having advocated that this syndrome be included in the next DSM - reference, (it is proposed that up to 40% of inattentive ADHD patients display these symptoms).

My symptoms include, being somewhat depressive, a lack of motivation/energy, chronic problems remaining on topic, and general attention issues, where one moment I can be in the room and the next moment I am out the window, with a very scattered, disorganized approach, and the self esteem issues these obstacles engender.

When I was 11 or so I hit by a truck traveling at highway speed, I do remember jumping, my body first being hit on the left hip and then a short, sharp recognition of pain where the back of my head met what I think was the light cover. I vaguely recollect flying through the air, and even though nothing was physically broken the next thing I remember is waking up in the hospital.

Something changed drastically for me, relationally, it was as if I was launched into a different orbit, with my attention span significantly reduced. I was in a daze the next couple of days, but no followup was done!

From that moment on everything changed, but I now have no real recollection of how I related, in a gritty way before, to that textural quality of life, but now, it is as if my feet do not quite touch the ground, and how I relate is much more abstract. Seemingly missing the important, gritty, textural quality of life that everyone takes for granted.

Recently I tried to get onto an ADHD research program, and be seen properly by experts that actually know what they are doing, as opposed to so called professionals that can only offer as a diagnosis: that my lack of energy and motivation is how I was born, and there is nothing to do.

Because of my head injury I was washed out of the ADHD research program, so I am looking for input for folks with a concussive history and finding no where to turn, looking for feedback on options, and therapies.

One thing I am interested is Nootrophics, including Piracetam, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam, which I am taking now, any alternatives or other suggestions are welcome.

On a practical level, the government have reduced the number of vendors for Piracetam, and other racetams, and I am looking for feedback on this offer on ebay from a company I am not familiar with, Hard Rhino, a red flag on this offer, this company is out of China, so quality control or outright scamming is a concern, the seller has good feedback though http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1000G-2-2-Lbs-Piracetam-Memory-Powder-NOT-cheaper-OXIRACETAM-Buy-Confidently-/360427773487?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5904178352743190354.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 03:25 PM
I'm so sorry for your accident. Welcome to the forums.

Although a significant brain injury can mimic symptoms of ADHD, it is not infact considered ADHD itself.

ADHD is a life long condition that one is born with and is caused by a chemical imbalance in certain regions of the brain.

But please stick around, i'm sure you'll be able to relate with many other peoples difficulties on here. :)

BR549
01-27-12, 03:39 PM
I'm so sorry for your accident. Welcome to the forums.

Although a significant brain injury can mimic symptoms of ADHD, it is not infact considered ADHD itself.

ADHD is a life long condition that one is born with and is caused by a chemical imbalance in certain regions of the brain.

But please stick around, i'm sure you'll be able to relate with many other peoples difficulties on here. :)

Actually, it IS intact considered ADHD. it's called "Acquired ADHD", as a result of a brain injury or diseases. Dr. Barkley discusses this, note the bolded sections:

www.greatschools.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf?date=4-12-05 transcript of interview

We know that about 10-15 percent of AD/HD seems to arise as a result of prenatal injuries to the development of the prefrontal cortex of the human brain. What are the most common injuries? They are multiple pregnancy complications, premature birth with minor brain hemorrhaging associated with it, cigarette smoking, and alcohol during pregnancy. Those are the big four. Those four will predispose to this disorder. So notice they create what we call acquired AD/HD. This is a normal child with a normal brain whose brain has been injured because of what’s happened in fetal development.

Second, post-natal brain damage, about 3-5 percent. What are the most common causes? Trauma, head injury—you whack the front part of your brain hard enough, you’re going to start getting symptoms of this disorder.
Second one: streptococcal infections. There are some individuals with genetically prone AD/HD or maybe not even prone to AD/HD who when they get a strep infection— which may, by the way, lead them to have cardiac abnormalities as well—that if they get a strep infection, a small percentage of the population has an auto-immune response to the strep bacteria, and that auto-immune response attacks the basal ganglia and the prefrontal cortex, but especially the basal ganglia. That was just discovered two months ago at Yale University.
[I]So can you acquire AD/HD? Yes. About one in five AD/HD children is an acquired case. If you put those statistics together they tend to be mostly boys. Why is that? Because the male brain is more prone to injury, both prenatally and post-natally than the female brain.

So, yes, you can have acquired ADHD and it still be considered ADHD.

tizak
01-27-12, 03:41 PM
Well, I am not saying that the head injury brought on the ADHD symptoms or not, my memory of how I related before the injury are not clear, even though, there is a strong impression that things changed for me afterwards, I have a strong impression that I have always been spacey, even though I hold the opinion that the head injury made things worse.

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 03:52 PM
Actually, it IS intact considered ADHD. it's called "Acquired ADHD", as a result of a brain injury or diseases. Dr. Barkley discusses this, note the bolded sections:

www.greatschools.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf?date=4-12-05 (http://www.greatschools.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf?date=4-12-05) transcript of interview



So, yes, you can have acquired ADHD and it still be considered ADHD.

To be honest, he's the only person I know whos ever mentioned "Acquired ADHD".

As far as i've always been aware, a case of head injury that may or may not show significant symptoms of ADHD is still treated as an MBD "Minimal Brain Dysfunction".

I've never heard of anybody being diagnosed with ADHD, for symptoms that have occured after birth due to trauma.

tizak
01-27-12, 03:52 PM
BR549, thanks for the link, I will try to stay on topic and actually read the report ;)

cameron90
01-27-12, 03:58 PM
Actually, it IS intact considered ADHD. it's called "Acquired ADHD", as a result of a brain injury or diseases. Dr. Barkley discusses this, note the bolded sections:

www.greatschools.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf?date=4-12-05 transcript of interview



So, yes, you can have acquired ADHD and it still be considered ADHD.

Thanks for this. I was actually going to post asking about information about head injuries. I was also interested about the relation between head injuries and ADHD.

I did display ADHD behaviours and thinking as a child and before my head injury but it wasn't after my accident that I really had significant problems with coping with these difficulties, depression and anxiety. My Dx was mild traumatic brain injury (basically a concussion but there was a loss of consciousness of 20 minutes). It's hard to say if it was acquired ADHD because I had most of the symptoms of childhood ADHD before the accident and it was also just before graduating from high school, which was a major transition point in my life. Also, there is also a history of ADHD and mental illness in my family. From all of my brain scans/tests there was no sign of permanent brain injury. Can a head injury exacerbate pre-existing ADHD, or other conditions such as mental illness?

To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your accident. Does a head injury preclude you from an ADHD diagnosis? Has anybody else here had a brain injury or head trauma? Especially if you also have an ADHD diagnosis.

Simfish
01-27-12, 04:01 PM
Can piracetam actually contribute to ADHD?

Fraser_0762
01-27-12, 04:08 PM
From my own understanding, the main difference between an MBD and ADHD, is that an MBD is more to do with physical damage to the frontal cortex which prevents transmitters from functioning properly, where as with ADHD, the transmitters operate fine, but the signals being sent between these transmitters are some what faulty.

I try to think of it in terms of the way a PC works. If the hard-drive is physically damaged, you get the blue screen of death, but the same symptom can also occur, if its system files that are damaged instead. :)

2 different causes, but with almost identical results.

tizak
01-27-12, 04:10 PM
Simfish, I am not sure what you mean by Piracetam actually contributing to ADHD, in the context of a head injury, there is evidence that there is measurable improvements for head trauma patients... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Closed_craniocerebral_trauma
)Zavadenko, NN; Guzilova, LS (2009). "Sequelae of closed craniocerebral trauma and the efficacy of piracetam in its treatment in adolescents". Neuroscience and behavioral physiology 39 (4): 323–8)

Cameron90, the research project screened for pre-existing conditions and I was eliminated on the basis of my head injury

BR549
01-27-12, 04:35 PM
To be honest, he's the only person I know whos ever mentioned "Acquired ADHD".

As far as i've always been aware, a case of head injury that may or may not show significant symptoms of ADHD is still treated as an MBD "Minimal Brain Dysfunction".

I've never heard of anybody being diagnosed with ADHD, for symptoms that have occured after birth due to trauma.

Firstly, MBD isn't a term used anymore in conjunction with ADHD in the US. It was originally thought that Minimal Brain Disorder or Minimal Brain Damage was caused by head trauma. Children who exhibited signs of what we now call ADHD were often diagnosed with MBD. It was a term used up until the 1960's and was changed to Hyperkinetic Reaction of Childhood and then later changed to ADHD(after a few more modifications).

Russell Barkley is the leading authority on ADHD and has been for quite some time. For more documentation from sources other than Barkley, here are a few.

From a 1957 study--Psychosom Med. 1957 Jan-Feb;19(1):38-49.
Hyperkinetic impulse disorder in children's behavior problems.
DENHOFF E, LAUFER MW, SOLOMONS G.

It has long been recognized and accepted that a persistent disturbance of behavior of a characteristic kind may be noted after severe head injury, epidemic encephalitis and communicable disease encephalopathies, such as measles, in children. It has often been observed that a behavior pattern of a similar nature may be found in children who present no clear-cut history of any of the classical causes mentioned. This pattern will henceforth be referred to as hyperkinetic impulse disorder.

Medscape article, the second sentence states that ADHD CAN be acquired.
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/495640_3

Etiology of ADHD

ADHD is a highly heritable disorder. However, it can also be acquired, and some individuals have a combination of genetic and acquired ADHD. At the present time, it is not possible to distinguish between these two types of ADHD—they both look the same, and both usually respond to treatment with the same psychostimulant medication.


There is more further down in the article.

Also from Keenan, H. T. et al. Early head injury and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: retrospective cohort study. The British Medical Journal, 2008;337:a1984.

Zwi, M. and Clamp, P. Injury and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. The British Medical Journal, 2008;337:a2244.

There is a well-established link between ADHD and traumatic head injury, with some experts suggesting that brain injury in school-age children causes ADHD.
and
Recently published guidelines from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry conclude that risk factors “may interact rather than act in isolation,” and include genetics and environmental influences such as injury, maternal smoking, maternal alcohol consumption, heroin use in pregnancy, fetal hypoxia (lack of oxygen), exposure to toxins, and zinc deficiency.

There is also the argument (in the last article cited) that children who already have (undiagnosed) ADHD are more prone to sustain head injuries.

You can also check out the History of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder at PubMed:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/

Either way you look at it, there are members here who HAVE been diagnosed with ADHD as adults due to brain trauma. Telling them that they DON'T have it probably go over well....

SylviaLynn
01-27-12, 06:57 PM
I remember being quite inattentive and fidgety in school. I was a tomboyish dreamer sort anywhere else. July 7, 1967 does not exist for me. I was riding my brother's bike down a hill (why I don't know) when I hit a motorcycle broadside. I woke up the next morning with stitches on the left side of my forehead. Of course in those days there were no MRI's. Ever since I've had problems with executive function and attention. I've seen very little on long term effects of head injuries. And yes, I have been diagnosed with ADD.

oneup
01-28-12, 04:25 AM
Most of the damage from concussions from what I understand is microscopic, so it wouldn't show up on an mri unless you had massive bleeding or a stroke, whereas most concussion is more of a bruise / shearing force. They can make ADHD worse, or as BR549 goes into actually cause it, or can cause post-concussion syndrome which is sometimes temporary, or cause much worse syndromes than ADHD...but you can also easily have PTSD after an accident which can shut down your brain and seem like brain damage.

trishcan
01-28-12, 05:16 AM
Simfish, I am not sure what you mean by Piracetam actually contributing to ADHD, in the context of a head injury, there is evidence that there is measurable improvements for head trauma patients... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Closed_craniocerebral_trauma
)Zavadenko, NN; Guzilova, LS (2009). "Sequelae of closed craniocerebral trauma and the efficacy of piracetam in its treatment in adolescents". Neuroscience and behavioral physiology 39 (4): 3238)

Cameron90, the research project screened for pre-existing conditions and I was eliminated on the basis of my head injury

I believe Simfish asked because the title of the thread makes it sound like a head injury and piracetam resulted in ADHD. But as I read it, you mean more of "Piracetam and ADHD brought on by head injury."

tizak
01-28-12, 06:52 AM
My way of abbreviating in the subject, Piracetam is proposed to ameliorate the effects of closed head trauma, ie: concussions.

tizak
01-28-12, 06:56 AM
I would like to get the the heart of my original posting, good Piracetam products and this manufacturer...

...I am looking for feedback on this offer on ebay from a company I am not familiar with, Hard Rhino, a red flag on this offer, this company is out of China, so quality control or outright scamming is a concern, the seller has good feedback though http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1000G-2-2-Lbs...78352743190354 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1000G-2-2-Lbs-Piracetam-Memory-Powder-NOT-cheaper-OXIRACETAM-Buy-Confidently-/360427773487?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5904178352743190354).

cameron90
01-28-12, 02:26 PM
I don't know, I'm skeptical of drugs or nootropics available on the internet already. And especially if it's coming from China. You just don't know what you're getting and it can be outright dangerous but that's not always the case. For me personally, it's not worth the risk. Is Piracetam available in the states? Or is it the same deal, you can just import personal quantities of the stuff?

tizak
01-28-12, 02:58 PM
I agree with you Cameron90, in the murky world of internet retailers it is hard to know what you are buying.

cameron90
01-28-12, 03:10 PM
Yeah. It is available here in Europe, but only by prescription. I know that only a few years ago it was available without a prescription but like many 'nootropics' if the pharmaceuticals see promise and a way to make a profit, they will take advantage of it. I know in Canada at least, it is not available at all because it doesn't have a DIN. So unfortunately, ordering it online from abroad is the only legal way of obtaining it in Canada, which is not necessarily the safest option. Just be careful and do a lot of research into who you're buying it from if you indeed decide to purchase it online.

tizak
01-31-12, 10:13 AM
So after much searching I have come across this company, anyone have any experience with cognitive nutrition's piracetam- any insights would be appreciated, also, although I am presently taking Piracetam from a manufacturer that no longer produces Piracetam I am also looking at Aniracetam or Pramiracetam, although Pramiracetam is quite expensive... any feedback would be appreciated...

tizak
02-01-12, 12:53 AM
For clarity purposes, the site name is "Cognitive Nutrition", any feedback on this company would be appreciated...

oneup
02-01-12, 01:50 AM
I bought some from amazon (serious nutrition solutions):



I think I'm going to chunk it though, it did weird things to my body:
http://addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116940

It did work somewhat but it seemed to mess with my nervous system. Maybe its just not for me, I give up on this stuff.

tizak
02-01-12, 08:03 AM
Oneup, sorry to hear of your reaction, that being the reason for my original post. It is very hard to find reliable information, and legitimate products in cyberspace. Having said that, genuine Piracetam has been shown in numerous studies to have few side effects, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam#Side_effects.

Indeed, I did send an email to Cognitive Nutrition, asking whether they follow the FDA's mandatory supplement manufacturing standards, (FDA GMP compliance).

Cognitive Nutrition responded back and claim to adhere to current US FDA, cGMP standards, and test for purity, heavy metal, and pathogens.

On the other side I am assuming the FDA monitors Cognitive Nutrition, having said that, I understand that the FDA lacks the resources to properly enforce compliance and test all the supplements and companies on the market.

So it is still a mugs game, and you must at some point take it on faith that the information provided engenders confidence in your purchase.

oneup
02-02-12, 12:54 AM
Tizak, I hope it works for you if you do decide to try it. I did some reading around on various forums and it seems like most people do tolerate it well but I found a few other people that had similar responses as I did--irritability, headaches, minor convulsions, and more people who found that the effects weren't reliable. I think it was more a bad response to the drug itself, but I couldn't help getting paranoid to some degree that there might be trace poisons or something, since it is synthetic and produced with no oversight. It was just really surprising, having read about it, with claims that it was basically safer than tylenol with a almost non-existent LD50, and supposedly no side effects, that my body reacted that way. Its probably safe for most people, and I wish you luck, but I think for me, with this experience, I am giving up on experimenting with new supplements. Again, good luck.

BR549
02-02-12, 02:20 AM
....Cognitive Nutrition responded back and claim to adhere to current US FDA, cGMP standards, and test for purity, heavy metal, and pathogens.

On the other side I am assuming the FDA monitors Cognitive Nutrition, having said that, I understand that the FDA lacks the resources to properly enforce compliance and test all the supplements and companies on the market.

So it is still a mugs game, and you must at some point take it on faith that the information provided engenders confidence in your purchase.

Tizak, Here's some info from the FDA on supplements. Scroll down to "How are Supplements Regulated?"

www.fda.gov/Forconsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm050803.htm

Kinda scary to think that the FDA doesn't have much to do with a supplement until it's on the market. Then, they don't inspect facilities or monitor other than the reports of adverse reactions, product labels, advertising, etc.

In general, FDA's role with a dietary supplement product begins after the product enters the marketplace. That is usually the agency's first opportunity to take action against a product that presents a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury, or that is otherwise adulterated or misbranded.


food for thought....;)

tizak
02-02-12, 08:38 AM
Well, I am not a fan of Big Pharma, and very much a champion of alternative, holistic health, preferring to stay with branch and root as opposed to synthetics.

Big Pharma has been distorted by Big Money, promoting "drugs" that cost in the "billions" to develop, yet are no better than a placebo, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/22/antidepressants-placebo-talk-therapy-depression_n_1163877.html), or worse, (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704779704574554071807123380.html), and developing a culture of ruling those that regulate them. With advertising budgets that masquerade as research budgets, and doctors are sent on junkets to Hawaii, "Yet this does not change how doctors prescribe", so why do it?

With that said, there seems no viable alternative in the natural world for those with cognitive difficulties, a synthetic, Nootropic, Piracetam and it's derivatives seem the only hope for people like me, those with working memory problems. A surprise to me, with all the positive outcomes, safety and fact it is a prescription drug in much of the world it does not even have a DIN number in Canada.

Indeed, there are many reputable, supplement manufacturers and retailers, Nootropics are grey market and researching them makes it that much more problematic. The FDA has not helped by not allowing them to be marketed as a dietary supplement, I do understand their reasoning, as it is definitely a synthetic, yet there should be a regulatory mechanism if these "drugs" are to be marketed and remain "grey market".

oneup
02-02-12, 01:48 PM
If you start really looking at the wikipedia page, and really digging through the sources that are referenced, in my opinion at least, the wikipedia page (on piracetam) really overstates its benefits. There's definiteley some evidence for its use as a medicine for specific conditions, but the wikipedia page makes it sound like some kind of super drug, soma for the masses. Ask yourself this...if it really was so great, and since its been around for over 40 years, and supposedly no short or long term side effects in most people, wouldn't more people be taking it?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or say don't try it, but with the way its being marketed and sold, and based on my experience, I would say this is an example of "dirty pharma". There was another post on here about side effects if your interested:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66514&highlight=piracetam

tizak
02-02-12, 03:17 PM
Well, reading around the internet one finds that Piracetam is off patent, at least in N. America, so there is no profit incentive, (except for the afore mentioned internet marketers), to continue research. With that said, there are many forums that reply with anecdotal evidence, agreed, not the best, but with few, or more precisely, no options that I am aware of for concussion related injuries, you go with what you know.

Anecdotally, users report improvement, and with no profit incentive I am not surprised to find that there is little research.

As far as interest, it would seem cognitive improvement is an esoteric endeavor.

Ms_Bobbalina
02-26-12, 07:09 PM
I was diagnosed w/ADHD as a child (around age 10) and had a TBI from a car accident last January (I'm not in my 50s). My docs told me that the TBI ramped up the symptoms of my ADHD that it my compensatory strategies -- learned over a lifetime -- were now inadequate ways of coping. This is absolutely true. Even as a child, I was never this impaired. I recently tried Ritalin/Strattera but had extremely serious reactions. One doc told me that ADHD brains are neuroanatomically and neurochemically different and another said the brain is plastic and that learning can change the structure. I'm still hoping there are kinds of cognitive rehabilitation that will help me regain at least some my old mind back. Anyone?

tizak
02-28-12, 09:38 AM
BTW, I have been taking Piracetam over the past month, and I will be continuing to take Piracetam over the next several months, and then provide feedback for those interested.

If you are interested in taking Piracetam yourself, you should add Choline, (for Acetylcholie uptake), as the presumed mechanism of action is that Piracetam increases oxygen and blood flow between the two brain hemispheres, through the uptake of Acetylcholie, by, I quote "activating acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter involved in motor planning, memory and organization", the link is found here, (http://devdelay.org/newsletter/articles/html/308-piracetam.html).

I do not endorse the external links from the above link, but the information in the article is consistent with other information resources I have seen.

NEMO QUEEN
03-22-12, 10:03 AM
just say hello here to everybody