View Full Version : Results so far. . .


cyonce
03-25-12, 02:05 AM
After posting here on a number of behaviors/thought patterns etc. that seemed to fit in the spectrum, I've done a little more research.

Went back and saw the last therapist I had worked with in the past and talked to him about what I was seeing and he agreed that it made sense. He's not an expert on the autism spectrum but seemed like a good person to check my hunch to see if some of it was fabricated.

He had names of other therapists in the area more qualified. I don't have a ton of extra money to spend on therapy at the moment so I'm a little torn.

Took a few more online tests, which all seem to support my conclusion with the exception of face and expression recognition but at 41 I've had plenty of time to practice those.

Its looking more and more like a match.

Results of all the tests:

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Your Systemizing (SQ) and Empathizing (EQ) Quotient Test Results (http://eqsq.com/score.php)
March 24, 2012
Click here to share your EQ SQ scores on your blog.
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="mso-cellspacing:0in;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes"> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Respondent
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Average EQ
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Average SQ
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Brain Type
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1"> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Males
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 39.0

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 61.2

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Systemizing
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:2"> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Females
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 48.0

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 51.7

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Empathizing
</td> </tr> <tr style="mso-yfti-irow:3;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Your Score
</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 14

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> 95

</td> <td style="padding:3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"> Extreme Systemizing
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ) test (Baron-Cohen et al., 2001).
If you score 32 - 50, you might have AS or HFA.
Score: 42

The Broad Autism Phenotype Test

Autistic/BAP
You scored 114 aloof, 114 rigid and 110 pragmatic
You scored above the cutoff on all three scales. Clearly, you are either autistic or on the broader autistic phenotype. You probably are not very social, and when you do interact with others, you come off as strange or rude without meaning to. You probably also like things to be familiar and predictable and don't like changes, especially unexpected ones.



Highly sensitive test:
14 or more to qualify
My score: 26



Your Aspie score: 183 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Reading the mind in the eyes
22-30 typical
Less than 20: problems reading others expressions
Over 30: better than average at reading peoples expressions
My score 31




Face Recognition
Out of 30 faces, you correctly identified 23.
You were familiar with 27 of the people in this test.

If we exclude the ones you were unfamiliar with, you got 85% correct.

Fuzzy12
03-25-12, 02:39 PM
I've got no idea but you seem to be pretty convinced so it might be worth going to a specialist to get a professional assessment.

cyonce
03-25-12, 03:47 PM
Yes, thinking about it honestly I'm not going to be able to let this rest unless I actually get a professional evaluation.

Otherwise I'm just going to keep sifting through the same information trying to either prove or dis-prove my notion and I'm never going to be really satisfied.

Fuzzy12
03-25-12, 03:53 PM
I know, what you mean cyonce. I've been doing exactly the same thing with ADHD. I guess, if you feel this is a problem and impairing your life, then there is some problem and it's worth getting it checked out to get some help whatever that problem may be.

I don't have any experience with this though so I hope someone else can give you some feedback on your test scores and symptoms.

fracturedstory
03-25-12, 07:31 PM
I'm 26 and I still have rotten face and expression recognition. I don't think it's going to get better. And can sort of pick up on tone...sort of. Sometimes I exaggerate it or misinterpret it.

Sounds like you could be on the spectrum...but does it cause you impairments? What would be the main aim to being diagnosed?

cyonce
03-26-12, 05:22 AM
I'm 26 and I still have rotten face and expression recognition. I don't think it's going to get better
You may be maxed out, I don't know. However, this is definitely something that improves slowly.

There are a lot of skills I have now at 41 that were woefully underdeveloped 18 years ago at 24 when I actually started working on them. Many of them seemed like they would never improve.
Sounds like you could be on the spectrum...but does it cause you impairments?Yes, I still experience significant challenges in a number of areas which seem to be related to the spectrum.

A few examples:

Social:


I have very, very few close or long term friends primarily due to both ADHD and whatever else I have going on. Even those I have are not all that close (although thats been improving some since starting ADHD meds). This is not the way I want my life to be.
Dating is very challenging. I find people in general hard to understand and women in particular are even more of a challenge. I've been in only a small handful of romantic relationships with long gaps in between and that hasn't been by choice.


Communication:


Explaining in too much detail (just like I'm doing now, lol), lecturing, talking too fast. These have improved with ADHD meds but are still somewhat problematic. These don't help with the social stuff above.
I still have some problems with knowing when to talk (timing) and reading the other person's tone and body language accurately. This affects all sorts of things.


Behavior/Sensitivity:


Meltdowns or whatever you deem them as an adult are still part of my life. Even with all the tools I've learned its regularly a challenge to not get caught up in an emotional ****storm
I still get overstimulated easily in various environments in a number
Special interests can be problematic, its hard to resist the temptation to research whatever the current fascination to the detriment of other parts of my life. A perfect example is that I really should be sleeping right now but instead I'm writing this.

Thats just a sampling



What would be the main aim to being diagnosed?From what I can tell there's two main aims:

Self acceptance:
I need to be able to quantify and at least somewhat understand things to accept them. The more I'm been able to accept parts of myself the more whole, complete and able I act and feel.

Motivation:
It would make it a lot easier to motivate to do the work necessary to improve my interactions with the world. There's a lot of hard work still to be done, knowing that I'm at least working with the correct basic assumption feels crucial to keeping myself motivated to continue.

Fraser_0762
03-26-12, 07:10 AM
I scored 14 and 19.

What does it mean when you're neither an EQ or SQ thinker? :confused:

Fuzzy12
03-26-12, 07:33 AM
I scored 14 and 19.

What does it mean when you're neither an EQ or SQ thinker? :confused:

EDIT: Oops, sorry, I read your post wrong. :doh:

tudorose
03-26-12, 07:36 AM
I scored 14 and 19.

What does it mean when you're neither an EQ or SQ thinker? :confused:

Guess it means you're stuffed then :D

Fraser_0762
03-26-12, 07:50 AM
Guess it means you're stuffed then :D

I knew that! :D

I was hoping for some deeper insight. ;)

fracturedstory
03-26-12, 06:44 PM
I knew that! :D

I was hoping for some deeper insight. ;)
You have a balance between the two, so you're both a systemiser and empathiser. You probably don't have autism or are mildy on the spectrum.
It's a positive. Balance is what this society looks for.

I'm an extreme systemiser.

Fraser_0762
03-26-12, 06:49 PM
You have a balance between the two, so you're both a systemiser and empathiser. You probably don't have autism or are mildy on the spectrum.
It's a positive. Balance is what this society looks for.

I'm an extreme systemiser.

Yeah, but both scores are well below average.

Wouldn't that mean that i'm neither?

fracturedstory
03-26-12, 06:55 PM
You may be maxed out, I don't know. However, this is definitely something that improves slowly.

There are a lot of skills I have now at 41 that were woefully underdeveloped 18 years ago at 24 when I actually started working on them. Many of them seemed like they would never improve.
Yes, I still experience significant challenges in a number of areas which seem to be related to the spectrum.

A few examples:

Social:


I have very, very few close or long term friends primarily due to both ADHD and whatever else I have going on. Even those I have are not all that close (although thats been improving some since starting ADHD meds). This is not the way I want my life to be.
Dating is very challenging. I find people in general hard to understand and women in particular are even more of a challenge. I've been in only a small handful of romantic relationships with long gaps in between and that hasn't been by choice.


Communication:


Explaining in too much detail (just like I'm doing now, lol), lecturing, talking too fast. These have improved with ADHD meds but are still somewhat problematic. These don't help with the social stuff above.
I still have some problems with knowing when to talk (timing) and reading the other person's tone and body language accurately. This affects all sorts of things.


Behavior/Sensitivity:


Meltdowns or whatever you deem them as an adult are still part of my life. Even with all the tools I've learned its regularly a challenge to not get caught up in an emotional ****storm
I still get overstimulated easily in various environments in a number
Special interests can be problematic, its hard to resist the temptation to research whatever the current fascination to the detriment of other parts of my life. A perfect example is that I really should be sleeping right now but instead I'm writing this.

Thats just a sampling



From what I can tell there's two main aims:

Self acceptance:
I need to be able to quantify and at least somewhat understand things to accept them. The more I'm been able to accept parts of myself the more whole, complete and able I act and feel.

Motivation:
It would make it a lot easier to motivate to do the work necessary to improve my interactions with the world. There's a lot of hard work still to be done, knowing that I'm at least working with the correct basic assumption feels crucial to keeping myself motivated to continue.

I have one friend I constantly think of just cutting ties with.

Working on better social skills and having a balance between interests and basic self care is important, but you don't have to completely change yourself. So what if you give too many details or monologue? You rather partake in the most mundane conversations (if you'd even call them that) about celebrities, general gossip, food, sports and whatever this boring social species can think up?

On my medication I can sometime participate in that stuff but I hate it. It's just boring.

Get help where you can but don't give up on who you are. I've crossed to that other side and I didn't enjoy it. I can play along but I just feel empty inside. I have so much more to offer that I can't communicate.

Even after you get diagnosed you'll have to work on solutions alone, unless you have a good therapist, but they cost a lot of money for tips you can pick up online. After I was diagnosed nothing happened. No social skills classes as they promised me. Four years later and I still have none. The best I could get was a disability pay check.

fracturedstory
03-26-12, 06:57 PM
Yeah, but both scores are well below average.

Wouldn't that mean that i'm neither?
It means you broke the test.

Well I guess you could have low levels in both. You - not empathic - pssh. Test was broken to begin with.

Fraser_0762
03-26-12, 07:04 PM
It means you broke the test.

Well I guess you could have low levels in both. You - not empathic - pssh. Test was broken to begin with.

Nah, I think you were right with the first bit there. :D I'm bad enough for breaking things, but now i'm breaking tests too as well?! :doh:

Sad thing is, I actually agree with the scores.

I'm terrible at reading people, but i'm always terribly disorganized and have no order to my life at all.

Perhaps I am well and truly screwed.

cyonce
03-27-12, 03:30 AM
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not meant to be. I'm not upset with you at all for the questions, writing about some of this does bring up strong emotions though.


Working on better social skills and having a balance between interests and basic self care is important, but you don't have to completely change yourself.

I know, I'm not trying to change things radically just improve the positive things that are already there and keep working on noticing and re-directing when I see that I'm engaging in behavior that's not what I'd like to do.

So what if you give too many details or monologue?I really enjoy being able to share the things I've learned with other people, some of them are quite useful. The catch is that to do this effectively I usually need to work within standard social conventions.

I've found that helping others is actually one of the things that brings me the most satisfying pleasure when I can do it without expectations.

You rather partake in the most mundane conversations (if you'd even call them that) about celebrities, general gossip, food, sports and whatever this boring social species can think up?The thing is that I actually really enjoy watching people and learning whats going on in them, what their motivations are. They can yak on about whatever they want in some respects, I'm more there to watch and study.

If observing people in some ways as if they were alien creatures gets me through the mundane parts of weeding through the masses to find those I'm capable of having a deeper connection with, so be it.

I've also found that people actually often enjoy a different/unique viewpoint as long as it's not forced upon them. Humor is f'n magical for this, that and getting to know people better enough before revealing too much.

Get help where you can but don't give up on who you are. I've crossed to that other side and I didn't enjoy it. I can play along but I just feel empty inside. I have so much more to offer that I can't communicate.Definitely. I've spent a lot of years rejecting who I was, I don't plan on going back to that. What I'd like to do is learn more ways to use the the ways that I'm different in a productive fashion and pass on anything helpful to others I encounter having the same struggles.

I go to AA regularly, there are a ton of people in recovery different than the norm in ways both like and totally unlike me. A lot of them can't seem to stay sober long term as AA doesn't solve their chemical imbalance. In the 18 years I've been around there I've seen a lot of people who aren't supported in or encouraged to get help with their 'outside issues' lose hope and go back to drinking and using drugs. Many of them die.

I am sick and tired of going to memorial services for people who didn't need to die, I've been to two already this year. Services for people who either died from consequences of alcohol/drug use or took their own lives when years of working an AA program brought them no relief from their other symptoms. There were many times when I came close to being one of those people myself.

If what I have learned and am still to learn can help even a few other people avoid that fate or keep them from suffering as long as I had to without help, that will go a long ways towards helping me truly feel that none of the struggles I've had were in vain.

The ironic thing is that I'm not an altruistic guy, this isn't some reflection of my great character. It's actually self-serving. I still have trouble remembering this sometimes, but being useful feels good, helping other people feels good and I like feeling good, I like it a lot.


Even after you get diagnosed you'll have to work on solutions alone, unless you have a good therapist, but they cost a lot of money for tips you can pick up online. After I was diagnosed nothing happened. No social skills classes as they promised me. Four years later and I still have none. The best I could get was a disability pay check.I know, I'm not expecting any miracle cure or significant outside help. I'm not sure that's even necessary. What I want is to know with more certainty which set of tools to use.

While there are many general purpose tips, often many of the more useful ones are specific to one or a small set of diagnosis. The analogy I think of is that I don't want to be trying to fix a plumbing problem with electricians tools.

purpleToes
03-27-12, 06:17 AM
Balance is what this society looks for.

I'm an extreme systemiser.

Me too! We're in a pretty small club. Though I don't think i'm as skewed As the test said: I have tons of empathy, but I'm just not so good at clueing in all the time.

cyonce
03-27-12, 12:13 PM
Me too! We're in a pretty small club. Though I don't think i'm as skewed As the test said: I have tons of empathy, but I'm just not so good at clueing in all the time.

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be due to lack of capacity necessary for empathy but a difficulty relating someone elses experience to mine. When I do feel empathy with someone, it can actually feel overwhelmingly strong.

fracturedstory
03-27-12, 07:54 PM
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not meant to be. I'm not upset with you at all for the questions, writing about some of this does bring up strong emotions though.



I know, I'm not trying to change things radically just improve the positive things that are already there and keep working on noticing and re-directing when I see that I'm engaging in behavior that's not what I'd like to do.

I really enjoy being able to share the things I've learned with other people, some of them are quite useful. The catch is that to do this effectively I usually need to work within standard social conventions.

I've found that helping others is actually one of the things that brings me the most satisfying pleasure when I can do it without expectations.

The thing is that I actually really enjoy watching people and learning whats going on in them, what their motivations are. They can yak on about whatever they want in some respects, I'm more there to watch and study.

If observing people in some ways as if they were alien creatures gets me through the mundane parts of weeding through the masses to find those I'm capable of having a deeper connection with, so be it.

I've also found that people actually often enjoy a different/unique viewpoint as long as it's not forced upon them. Humor is f'n magical for this, that and getting to know people better enough before revealing too much.

Definitely. I've spent a lot of years rejecting who I was, I don't plan on going back to that. What I'd like to do is learn more ways to use the the ways that I'm different in a productive fashion and pass on anything helpful to others I encounter having the same struggles.

I go to AA regularly, there are a ton of people in recovery different than the norm in ways both like and totally unlike me. A lot of them can't seem to stay sober long term as AA doesn't solve their chemical imbalance. In the 18 years I've been around there I've seen a lot of people who aren't supported in or encouraged to get help with their 'outside issues' lose hope and go back to drinking and using drugs. Many of them die.

I am sick and tired of going to memorial services for people who didn't need to die, I've been to two already this year. Services for people who either died from consequences of alcohol/drug use or took their own lives when years of working an AA program brought them no relief from their other symptoms. There were many times when I came close to being one of those people myself.

If what I have learned and am still to learn can help even a few other people avoid that fate or keep them from suffering as long as I had to without help, that will go a long ways towards helping me truly feel that none of the struggles I've had were in vain.

The ironic thing is that I'm not an altruistic guy, this isn't some reflection of my great character. It's actually self-serving. I still have trouble remembering this sometimes, but being useful feels good, helping other people feels good and I like feeling good, I like it a lot.

I know, I'm not expecting any miracle cure or significant outside help. I'm not sure that's even necessary. What I want is to know with more certainty which set of tools to use.

While there are many general purpose tips, often many of the more useful ones are specific to one or a small set of diagnosis. The analogy I think of is that I don't want to be trying to fix a plumbing problem with electricians tools.
Hardly a rant. Very rational. Perhaps you are on the spectrum? That's not to say that others with autism don't rant. Oh how they do...

I suppose I have a lot of emotional baggage with me about people trying to change me. I've known I've had autism for four years now so I'm in a reflection mood and am going to write about it soon, about the struggles to fit in and the decision to just be myself. I can share it if you like. It'll be on the same site my linked sig is in anyway. I think writing it will offer some relief.

I feel overwhelming empathy and emotions too. It locks me up so I can't actually show any emotion, although sometimes I manage to look threatened.

Look up Intense World theory if you can.

I have learned a lot about empathy and human emotions but I still feel like there's much to learn. In social environments I still miss it, later I might realise what I missed and sometimes I'm yet to learn it.

I'm an altruist and I like to educate people and help them. I understand the whole thing about AA. I've had some serious health problems from drugs and I just can't bear seeing people take the stuff without realising the health and psychological effect it can have. And long term too.

Flory
03-27-12, 08:23 PM
fraser i can't think of anything constructive to say at this point other than bless you...im much the same if its not something to do with my ADHD then it is my dyspraxia...pretty much im screwed too :) we have safety in numbers..according to this test im a systemizer, i think i ADD'D out really badly and was button mashing :s

cyonce
03-29-12, 03:44 AM
Hardly a rant. Very rational. Perhaps you are on the spectrum? That's not to say that others with autism don't rant. Oh how they do...

Look up Intense World theory if you can.


Sometimes I'm not sure how I'm coming across, although its more problematic in person. When I get excited about something in a conversation people tend to think I'm angry.

I checked out the Intense World theory, it was quite interesting and I matches a number of things I've experienced.

cyonce
03-29-12, 05:30 PM
Ok, I'm having trouble at the moment organizing some notions running around my skull into a concrete statement that doesn't sound like I'm talking out my *** or randomly associating.

I'm going to just lay out my thinking that way that way it makes sense to me(my citations may not be exact):



Intense world theory proposes that hyper-functioning of neural circuits as the core cause of autistic behaviors.



That hyper-functioning results in sensory overload/over-stimulation



The amount of sensory input coming in significantly exceeds our ability to process it



In response someone on the spectrum disconnects more to protect themselves

This all makes sense to me and matches my experience.

What I'm guessing too though is that this often leads to the brain doing some chemical regulation to counter this over-stimulation as well which has other side effects.

This is based partly on some of the things I've experienced since I started taking Adderall.



My ability to focus and process input is significantly increased



Input therefore isn't quite as overwhelming, I can do the on-the-fly calculations to make sense of more of it in real-time



More parts of my personality that have been absent for many years seem to be coming back on line



However adderall has its own overstimulating effects that the brain compensates for, resulting in tolerance. When I started having problems with that, I started reading about methods people have used to combat this.


Partial NDMA antagonists seem to be the most commonly agreed-upon method of preventing if not reducing tolerance, at least for some people.


Memantine and dextromorphan seem to be the most effective.


I'm considering asking my psych to allow me to try adding memantine but not simply for tolerance. I've tried using small doses (30mg at night, which is the adult dose and nowhere near recreational) of dextromorphan and here's some of what I've experienced so far:




Reduced tolerance to adderall at least to the dopamine activating element
Reduced negative response to stimuli but feeling like my senses are more. . .err. . .sensitive at the same time
More integration of sensory input into my daily activities, its a little hard to explain but it makes things like dancing in a crowded environment way less stressful. Its much easier to sense where people are in relation to me on the floor.
Higher degree of physical coordination
Better memory recording due to sensory associations

There's debate about how exactly NDMA antagonists help with tolerance but its possible that lowered tolerance some of the other effects are due to a reduction in glutamate levels.


So I was curious if studies have been done using Memantine or other NDMA antagonists to treat some of the symptoms of autism and it looks like a few have been done.

cyonce
03-30-12, 03:18 AM
Oops, left out something. There seems to be a common factor in autism with higher glutamate levels (which increases neural excitation).

http://www.hussman.org/research/jaddgaba.pdf

http://www.autism.com/fam_aar_2010_24_hmgb1.asp

Fortune
03-30-12, 03:35 AM
Me too! We're in a pretty small club. Though I don't think i'm as skewed As the test said: I have tons of empathy, but I'm just not so good at clueing in all the time.

That test is not a good test of empathy.

It's more nearly accurate to say it's designed in such a way as to get a certain kind of response from autistic people and a different kind of response from non-autistic people.

fracturedstory
03-30-12, 07:12 PM
Eh, instead of taking more drugs to decrease tolerance just take two days off the meds. That's what I do so I can stay on a low dose, though at certain times of the month I go up to a full 10mg dose. Ooh I'ma rebel.

I'm probably going to have to come back and read the above when my brain wants to work.