View Full Version : The autism wars..NYT article


Dizfriz
04-08-12, 09:28 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/sunday-review/the-autism-wars.html?ref=opinion

The autism wars
Just thought it was interesting and worth a pointer.

Dizfriz

ginniebean
04-08-12, 04:34 PM
Thanks Diz,

I've always felt the autistic community was a lot better organized and their issues well articulated, they won't be so easy to moralizing as those with adhd, maybe some of the heat will come off of us. If that is an upside.

homestead4u
04-08-12, 05:14 PM
I dont know I believe they have expaned their paramaters alitte too far.. yes there is a problem w Autistic Cildren.. but there is alot of othere w High leveled ones that really have been sheltered or not socialized and for this they r now deemed high level autistic when in fact they are not , their function are normal.. Being "labled" as Autistic is mortifying to a child or young adult.. when in fact its just bad social skills and overprotective parents..

ginniebean
04-08-12, 05:18 PM
Homestead... Git on with you... You know what they say about opinions.

Those of us who work with the so called "high functioning" know that eventually topten percent of them can't manage on their own.

Fraser_0762
04-08-12, 07:09 PM
I dont know I believe they have expaned their paramaters alitte too far.. yes there is a problem w Autistic Cildren.. but there is alot of othere w High leveled ones that really have been sheltered or not socialized and for this they r now deemed high level autistic when in fact they are not , their function are normal.. Being "labled" as Autistic is mortifying to a child or young adult.. when in fact its just bad social skills and overprotective parents..

Completely agree. But I think similar things can be said about ADHD and other such conditions.

Lunacie
04-08-12, 07:43 PM
I dont know I believe they have expaned their paramaters alitte too far.. yes there is a problem w Autistic Cildren.. but there is alot of othere w High leveled ones that really have been sheltered or not socialized and for this they r now deemed high level autistic when in fact they are not , their function are normal.. Being "labled" as Autistic is mortifying to a child or young adult.. when in fact its just bad social skills and overprotective parents..

Some places (like New Jersey) are actually watching for Autism in young children and providing
early intervention measures. I hope that is a growing trend, for Autism and for ADHD.
Early intervention can make a world of difference.

However, 8 years ago when we expressed concern that my granddaughter was not talking yet,
and was having severe emotional meltdowns, we were told over and over that it was "normal"
and that so-and-so's child didn't talk until s/he was 4 and s/he is just fine.

So we didn't look for a diagnosis and help for her until her pre-kindergarten teacher suggested it.
And since we don't have those early intervention centers in our area, it might not have helped
anyway to get an early diagnosis.

With over 4 years of therapy behind us now, and continuing to do therapy, she has come a very
long way.
But just giving her better social tools isn't going to make her able to care for herself.
At the age of 10 there are still toileting issues and meltdowns.

And yeah, when you see how different your child is,
and how people don't have a clue how to deal with her,
you tend to become just a little bit "overprotective."
That doesn't mean we caused the Autism or made it worse.


I don't believe you are a doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist.
I don't believe you have any real knowledge about any over-diagnosis of Autism.
I know you have a right to your opinion, but I think it's full of ... well, okay, hot air. :mad:

Dizfriz
04-08-12, 09:49 PM
I dont know I believe they have expaned their paramaters alitte too far.. yes there is a problem w Autistic Cildren.. but there is alot of othere w High leveled ones that really have been sheltered or not socialized and for this they r now deemed high level autistic when in fact they are not , their function are normal.. Being "labled" as Autistic is mortifying to a child or young adult.. when in fact its just bad social skills and overprotective parents..
And you know all of this how?

Dizfriz

homestead4u
04-09-12, 06:42 PM
Some places (like New Jersey) are actually watching for Autism in young children and providing
early intervention measures. I hope that is a growing trend, for Autism and for ADHD.
Early intervention can make a world of difference.

However, 8 years ago when we expressed concern that my granddaughter was not talking yet,
and was having severe emotional meltdowns, we were told over and over that it was "normal"
and that so-and-so's child didn't talk until s/he was 4 and s/he is just fine.

So we didn't look for a diagnosis and help for her until her pre-kindergarten teacher suggested it.
And since we don't have those early intervention centers in our area, it might not have helped
anyway to get an early diagnosis.

With over 4 years of therapy behind us now, and continuing to do therapy, she has come a very
long way.
But just giving her better social tools isn't going to make her able to care for herself.
At the age of 10 there are still toileting issues and meltdowns.

And yeah, when you see how different your child is,
and how people don't have a clue how to deal with her,
you tend to become just a little bit "overprotective."
That doesn't mean we caused the Autism or made it worse.


I don't believe you are a doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist.
I don't believe you have any real knowledge about any over-diagnosis of Autism.
I know you have a right to your opinion, but I think it's full of ... well, okay, hot air. :mad:
Well u can contact me directly if u want as I have seen numbers first hand changed to get more federal funding.. feel free i welcome u ..

homestead4u
04-09-12, 07:22 PM
And you know all of this how?

Dizfriz

contact me via email and i will explain better.. but im not lying..

homestead4u
04-09-12, 07:26 PM
Homestead... Git on with you... You know what they say about opinions.

Those of us who work with the so called "high functioning" know that eventually topten percent of them can't manage on their own.

please b4 y talk ... about me contact me send me a message i can explain better but its not public knowlage then you can retract ur statement.. I do ask what i tell you is between u and me....

Dizfriz
04-10-12, 09:51 AM
please b4 y talk ... about me contact me send me a message i can explain better but its not public knowlage then you can retract ur statement.. I do ask what i tell you is between u and me....
Why not post your information here on the forum? The idea of secret knowledge hidden from the public tends to make one very skeptical of the source.

Accurate knowledge should be shared and discussed.

Dizfriz

Lunacie
04-10-12, 10:44 AM
Well u can contact me directly if u want as I have seen numbers first hand changed to get more federal funding.. feel free i welcome u ..

She is getting lots of therapy and taking meds, and has made huge improvements.
But she will always have Autism.

We're meeting with a disability lawyer to get that set up so she can go into a group home
when that becomes necessary.

I agree with Dizfriz ... I'm not going to PM you for some secret information.
Share it here or don't share it at all. In which case your credibility stays the same.

Lillianmay
04-10-12, 02:01 PM
I have a few thoughts based just on my own experience. I know a few people with ASD and some have Asperger’s. I do think they ought to keep the Asperger’s as a separate subset because the two groups seem to have some differences in the type of support they need. The few Asperger’s students I knew did pretty well in school handling academics, but sometimes had a hard time with social situations, while the high functioning autism kids needed academic support and a different kind of social skill support.

I do think that the DSM needs to be more precise in its criteria for autism. My newspaper today quoted an Associated Press article that said 1 in 88 kids is being diagnosed, but that some of the milder cases would outgrow their diagnosis. If a person outgrows autism, then they never had it.

I was misdiagnosed as autistic on the basis of my language difficulties. Language is important for social skill development. An undiagnosed deaf child, as use to happen a hundred years ago, would often be thought mentally challenged till the deafness was diagnosed. There are several language disorders, some which occur alone or with autism or ADHD. A child with a language disorder may develop routines because it is a way to cope with the day when he/she cannot communicate well, or become frustrated and melt down because they can’t communicate what they need. It may be part of an autism disorder, or not.

Doctors need to sort out what is what and this can be hard especially in small children. I am hoping the new DSM will help determine what is autism and what is something else. I wonder what my school years would have been like if I’d had the right diagnosis of dyslexia and ADHD. Correct diagnosis gives a better chance for treatment.

Many people come to my uncle, a doctor, with a cough and shortness of breath. It could be many things from a virus, to cancer, fungal disease, autoimmune disease – whatever. Similar outward symptoms can have many different causes, and for treatment it is important to get to the real problem.

This is much harder with the brain, and brain understanding is way behind understanding of other organs. Researchers will need to figure out what is caused by a structural problem, what neurotransmitters are out of balance or lacking or other undiscovered problems. I don’t think the present way of viewing autism is helping because it is mixing together possibly unrelated conditions and trying to study them as a group. So, I think a more precise diagnostic criteria will be good.

Fortune
04-13-12, 12:41 AM
I dont know I believe they have expaned their paramaters alitte too far.. yes there is a problem w Autistic Cildren.. but there is alot of othere w High leveled ones that really have been sheltered or not socialized and for this they r now deemed high level autistic when in fact they are not , their function are normal.. Being "labled" as Autistic is mortifying to a child or young adult.. when in fact its just bad social skills and overprotective parents..

What does "a problem with autistic children" mean?

As for the rest, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you say that many who aren't autistic are being diagnosed, it shouldn't be hard or controversial to demonstrate why this is so.

Right now it looks like the DSM-5 criteria will shift many people diagnosed with PDD-NOS over to a new (outside the autistic spectrum) social communication disorder, but the majority of autistic people will be redefined from PDD-NOS, autism, and Asperger's Syndrome to autism spectrum disorder.

Anyway, saying that the problem "is just bad social skills and overprotective parents," You are aware that 2/3rds of the autistic triad of impairments can be described as "bad social skills?" The third being repetitive behavior and interests.

Fortune
04-13-12, 12:56 AM
Also, diagnosis usually involves the use of:

Autism diagnostic observation scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_Diagnostic_Observation_Schedule)

Autism diagnostic interview - revised (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_Diagnostic_Interview-Revised)

Both of which are fairly precise instruments for establishing someone's history as well as whether they currently qualify for a diagnosis on the autistic spectrum.

Fortune
04-13-12, 01:04 AM
I have a few thoughts based just on my own experience. I know a few people with ASD and some have Aspergerís. I do think they ought to keep the Aspergerís as a separate subset because the two groups seem to have some differences in the type of support they need. The few Aspergerís students I knew did pretty well in school handling academics, but sometimes had a hard time with social situations, while the high functioning autism kids needed academic support and a different kind of social skill support.

I don't see a problem with merging the categories. The way the new ASD is supposed to work, you're supposed to include what kind of support and how much each individual needs, rather than simply basing it on a diagnostic label (especially when a lot of people with some diagnoses can't access services but people with other diagnoses can).

I wasn't diagnosed with anything as a child (although people did notice and tell my mother they thought I was autistic), and AS itself didn't exist as a diagnosis at the time. I did need academic support, which I only ever received for one year (fifth grade) and the rest of my grades 1-12 experiences were pretty abysmal.

I don't think a diagnostic label should define what anyone needs. Rather their needs should define that, and their diagnoses should be related to their needs, and not to arbitrary assumptions about what speaking at a certain time means to one's overall development.

I do think that the DSM needs to be more precise in its criteria for autism. My newspaper today quoted an Associated Press article that said 1 in 88 kids is being diagnosed, but that some of the milder cases would outgrow their diagnosis. If a person outgrows autism, then they never had it.

The number will shrink with the DSM-5 criteria, unless Autism Speaks, ASAN, and others successfully campaign for more inclusive criteria (and a continued separation of AS and autism, which I find nonsensical).

fracturedstory
04-14-12, 02:03 AM
I actually agree that people that are too mild are being diagnosed and I tire from the over emotional back lash. I believe that you get a diagnosed with a disorder to seek treatment and support. I'm over the gifters and next phase in evolution crapola.

Who here has mild ADHD? I mean really! I haven't got ADHD as bad as some here but I've got it bad. I'd have it worse if I was not medicated.

I've talked to many people seeking a diagnosis who have it extremely mild and just want to get diagnosed to belong somewhere. I've got severe symptoms and I hate it. In fact I'm almost suicidal. When people go on about the positives it just makes me want to lash my wrists even more. How can these people be successful when I have failed? I usually just roll my eyes at them and move on. It's less painful.

Autism symptoms can get so mild that you just turn into a quirky NT. I know many people with traits with no diagnosis and they manage just fine. I don't want to see these people diagnosed just because they think they fit the criteria and oh it's such a relief that I finally found out why I feel so different. Because you're an individual? Because you have your own mind and experiences that shape who you are?

People who were diagnosed with AS or HFA in childhood and get the supports can actually lose their diagnosis later in life - no longer autistic! Say autism is hard wired and I might just bang my head on the table. I am so over this discussion.

I think I may have to be assessed for ODD. It's getting a bit out of control.

You may commence with the flame war.

In conclusion: if you want help to deal with your autistic symptoms get diagnosed, if you want a label go to the copy shop.

Fortune
04-14-12, 08:12 AM
I actually agree that people that are too mild are being diagnosed and I tire from the over emotional back lash. I believe that you get a diagnosed with a disorder to seek treatment and support. I'm over the gifters and next phase in evolution crapola.

I think these are primarily adults who are seeking a diagnosis for the sake of validation? I am not sure that children in that same category are getting diagnosed.

I've talked to many people seeking a diagnosis who have it extremely mild and just want to get diagnosed to belong somewhere. I've got severe symptoms and I hate it. In fact I'm almost suicidal. When people go on about the positives it just makes me want to lash my wrists even more. How can these people be successful when I have failed? I usually just roll my eyes at them and move on. It's less painful.If you've seen a thread I started on WP recently, you can see my reaction to that particular segment of the autistic community. I find it frustrating to talk to them about this sort of thing because it seems to me that so many of them want to redefine AS as this mild, quirky thing that has no real impairments.

Autism symptoms can get so mild that you just turn into a quirky NT. I know many people with traits with no diagnosis and they manage just fine. I don't want to see these people diagnosed just because they think they fit the criteria and oh it's such a relief that I finally found out why I feel so different. Because you're an individual? Because you have your own mind and experiences that shape who you are?I agree with this. I don't see a problem with people identifying with the autistic community and even describing themselves as BAP or whatever, but if there's no impairment, there's no diagnosis.

You may commence with the flame war.No flames from me. I hope you are not disappointed.

In conclusion: if you want help to deal with your autistic symptoms get diagnosed, if you want a label go to the copy shop.

Jr1985
04-14-12, 03:26 PM
Just because someone may be "mild" compared to to you doesn't mean they aren't impaired in some way. If people feel the need to get a diagnosis to "belong", then clearly there's still something wrong with them, that prevents them from belonging in the first place.

Fortune
04-14-12, 11:20 PM
Just because someone may be "mild" compared to to you doesn't mean they aren't impaired in some way. If people feel the need to get a diagnosis to "belong", then clearly there's still something wrong with them, that prevents them from belonging in the first place.

I don't know, when I see people insist that they're not impaired at all, and try to redefine Asperger's Syndrome as "just a difference or a personality type, not a disability" and that they want a diagnosis as a label to explain their quirks, and not dealing with any impairments that they're willing to acknowledge, I seriously wonder why they need the diagnosis in the first place.

Diagnoses aren't something you generally go shopping for. That's generally a bad thing.