i dont eat any meat out of personal choice, and since i was diagnosed i have been wondering how this dietary choice has possibly negatively/positively affected my ADD. anyone know anything on the matter?

Do you eat dairy and/or eggs?

How is the rest of your diet? You don't necessarily need to eat meat, but you do need to get adequate protein.

I heard that vegetarian diets are pretty bad for ADHD folks. Protein, choline, and omega 3 fatty acids are good for ADHD, unfortunately non-meats aren't high in those nutrients.

As mentioned by both previous posters, it is crucial that you keep good amounts of protein in your diet. While vegetarianism can be somewhat healthy, if done properly, the human body still requires some nutrients which are found mostly in animal products. Poultry and Fish are both high in protein and other very useful supplements. Protein affects attentional ability especially, as well as cognitive function, so low levels could in fact be making the ADHD symptoms more visible.

I would suggest either adopting egg or fish into your diet, or finding dietary supplements which can supply the necessary nutrients which you are most likely lacking due to your vegetarian lifestyle.

One can also supplement w/ whey or soy protein powder.

I ate no meat (including fish) for 15 years or so. I did eat some dairy products such as cheese, yoghurt or eggs at 3-4 meals a week. About 8 months ago I went back to eating meat in order to get the maximim amount of protien possible in my diet in order to build muscle. (I lift weights 4-6 times a week; my weight was 167-170 at this time last year, now its 180.)
I have noticed no changes in my symptoms of ADHD with either change in diet, but I do notice that meat is somewhat of a stimulant, or something like that.

I'm a veg and haven't found that eating meat (though the times when I've slipped off the wagon and have been few and far between) helped. The one big issue for me with food and ADHD is just making sure to eat enough and eat three well spaced meals, or some other good spacing of food, since an empty stomach affects anyone's concentration. The stimulant meds are former diet pills so you need to take extra care to eat enough if you're on them.

For the average American, a vegetarian diet offers far more health benefits than problems. Sixty percent of Americans are obese, largely because of meat and dairy abuse; they have vitamin deficiencies from a diet that has too few whole grains, veg, fruit, beans, other plants. I don't know the numbers, but fat vegetarians are a rare bird indeed. In terms of mental health, obesity and vitamin deficiencies are both correlated with depression.

Protein deficiency is simply not an issue for any North American unless you're looking to gain lots of muscle mass like Swamp Donkey. Too many North Americans are getting too much protein. For ADHD, you need adequate protein levels but there's not reason why a typical vegetarian diet couldn't supply this. If you're a weight-lifter, you could still get enough from vegetarian sources though obviously a steak is a lot easier than the equiv. amount of tofu, rice, beans etc.

The real trick is with Vitamin B-12 (I don't know if this affects ADHD in particular but its deficiency is a common health problem for vegetarians)--you should be taking a multivitamin with B12.

Also, if you're on a low-fat diet you might be missing on the Omega-3s, but then again most meat-eaters aren't getting enough for the simple reason that they're getting a very narrow diet of beef, chicken, and pork with very little of the Omega-3-rich fish. If you're a vegetarian you stand a good chance to get a better Omega-3 profile than meat-eaters because you won't be overstocking on the countervaling Omega-6s found in large quantities in animal foods. Plus, you should be getting more of the Omega-3-rich vegetable oils. To be safe, try taking a supplement for a few weeks and see if you don't feel better. I find flaxseed oil makes me feel fuller so it's great for that at least; it also cuts on cravings for the "bad" fats.

Ah well, for the other side visit a forum of low carbers. They can cite tons of info that says the contrary. And yes they do eat plenty of vegetables as well.

I'm a vegetarian ...occasionally eat eggs & cheese (kinda goes in waves, based on what I crave --lately I've not had either, but there are months where I'll eat eggs/cheese daily). I drink enriched soy milk which has sufficient amounts of B-12. I get iron from greens & various grains, plus the soy milk has iron. I recently added ground flax seed for Omega-3, but haven't noticed any change in my ADD.

Swamp Donkey, maybe you had an iron deficiency? I think that would result is low energy levels.

When I actually bother to pay attention to how much protein I'm eating, I get stressed out because I eat more protein than the FDA recommends & more protein than I believe I should be eating. I know high protein diets are all the rage nowadays, but I don't want excessive protein in my diet because it can cause stress on the kidneys (if the kidneys are already stressed ...I have diabetes & diabetes is the leading cause of kidney disease, so I figure my kidneys have enough stress in their life :p).

Ah well, for the other side visit a forum of low carbers. They can cite tons of info that says the contrary. And yes they do eat plenty of vegetables as well.
There's information and there's information. Vegetarianism has been found healthy (though not necessarily healthier than comparably balanced meat-including diets) by numerous studies by government and universities all over the world. The more extreme claims of Atkins-type diets are supported by the occassional study and plain old fringe science.

Besides, the proof is in your eyes. How many fat vegetarians have you met and how many fat Atkins fans have you met?

I know you think you are making a valid comparison here concerning weight, but I feel you are not. Here's why:

1) We know very little about why people become fat in the first place. To say that fat corresponds to a particular diet without citing studies that indicate valid methodology resulting in a general concensus of the people who make their living studying these things is weak argument. In other words, neither vegetarians and nor Atkins people are unbiased. By simply correlating in the manner you have done, we can conclude that the rise of computer usage causes ADD because there has been a corresponding rise in computer usage. This should be enough to make all of us log off right now and never touch a computer keyboard again, right? ;)

2) Calorie consumption, despite hype of all kinds kinds to the contrary, is still the clearest indication we have of whether people will gain weight on a particular diet. Most foods, vegetables and otherwise, contain calories.

This is an ADD forum. I think most of us are interested in how the food we may consume affects our thinking and whether or not it has an impact upon our syptoms of ADD. You might want to visit Dr. Amen's site. He recommends different types of foods for people with different types of ADD.

I have absolutely nothing against vegetarianism. What I can't figure out is why vegetarians would care if I continue to eat meat. It is my body after all and I think I am the best judge of what is good for me. You no doubt think you are the best judge of what is good for you. However, I have found that people who feel they have to be very persuasive about vegetarianism often have not health concerns but political concerns.

To my knowledge, no one in this thread has made any particular claims for the Atkin's diet. I am certainly no defender of it, but I know plenty of people on Atkins who are absolutely fanatical about consuming enough vegetables. As a vegetarian, does this please you?

I don't want to get into a food fight but I do visit a forum low carb site. I have read many very very intelligent posts there citing interesting recent studies. I have also found a lot of fanatical stupid ones. So it is with sites of all types.

If you want to know more, go ahead a visit such a site. I don't like to tar a whole movement without evidence. I tell you want, if you will visit a low carb site, I will visit a vegetarian one -- if you can direct me to one that is health oriented only and doesn't guilt trip me about killing animals.

I confess my vegetarianism is primarily about HOW they kill the animals, not so much that animals are killed. But I don't bug others about it, other than I will tell them why I am vegetarian if they ask.

cheers.
Oh, and I've always personally found that when calories in regularly exceeds calories expended through living and exercise, weight gain will occur.

but yes, there are definitely other conditions/medications which can affect this.

Oh, and I've always personally found that when calories in regularly exceeds calories expended through living and exercise, weight gain will occur.

Well there actually is one study in which compared people on a low carb diet who were allowed to eat 300 calories more than people on a low fat diet and the low carb group lost more. But one study is not definitive any more than one swallow makes a summer so I have to agree with you on the calorie thing.

My post above was mainly to address the following quote:


Besides, the proof is in your eyes. How many fat vegetarians have you met and how many fat Atkins fans have you met?

That there are fat people on Atkins simply tells us that they have chosen Atkins as a means of weight loss. It does not tell us what their weight was to start with or what their eating habits were like before starting Atkins.

I am not much of a food fanatic. I just like logic.

Numerous leading officials agree:
VEGETARIANISM IS HEALTHY

&

you can get more than adequate nutrition from a vegetarian diet


Not that any other diet is necessarily less healthy.

Here are four official bodies that say vegetarianism is good from a health standpoint and does not lead to protein deficiencies. Of course, it would be very easy to find a hundred such official statements, but I don't want to burden anyone with too much reading.

British Medical Association declares lower rates of obesity and more ideal Body Mass Index among vegetarians:

http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/Health-problems/Obesity%20-%20researchAltTherapies.htm

American Dietetic Association:

http://www.penpages.psu.edu/penpages_reference/12101/121012505.html

American Medical Association:

http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZ3K6HNK9C&sub_cat=110

American Heart Association:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4777

Here's something that will shock everyone's sensibilities!

Archaeologists discover Roman gladiators were vegetarians--and fat!

http://news.lifestyle.co.uk/lifestyle/45-lifestyle.htm

*****
Choral, I was addressing my dietary remarks to the original poster, a vegetarian, who was being told what to eat by non-vegetarians, nor was I being illogical in anyway by citing health experts or common sense, and though I probably shouldn't respond to anything else you wrote, here goes my response:

The vegetarian vs. meat-eating subject is the whole topic of this thread, and it is a very important topic for vegetarians with ADD. Three posters were suggesting it was somehow difficult to get protein on a vegetarian diet, which is simply a myth. Then someone suggested that the low-carb people would disagree, and I responded that low-carb diets haven't been sanctioned by any official body (which is not to say they're unhealthy, just that official bodies are reluctant at this point to endorse a diet that's still relatively new compared with millenia of vegetarians), while vegetarianism has been given an all-clear by just about every relevant official body. I can't stress enough how important this subject is for vegetarians with ADD. When you're a vegetarian, you have to deal with a lot of people telling you what to eat, and they're usually misinformed--and in my experience, they're more often than not fat--actually, in the US, more often than not anyone is fat :(

I am new to the vegetetarian world and I will say that my motives were originally (and yet still are to a certain extent) driven by "political" fervor.

It all started when my Vegan daughter and son-in-law presented a film by Peaceable Kingdom......I will not go into detail because I respect you all for your values and convictions regarding food. I cried during the film and I could not eat for two weeks because I basically was horrifed by what I saw. I will say that I will never, ever eat meat again. Period.

I was never a big meat eater in the first place, and I still cannot give up certain fish, and eggs. I drink soy milk, drink plenty of water and am gradually adding suppliments to my diet: flax, b-complex, vitamin c and pro-biotics. I am working on getting it together.

Somthing else... My daughter has always had a problem with cholesterol, yet since she first started as vegetarian and then overtime became vegan, her levels, as well as, her weight has dropped considerably. That's a good thing for her.

yes, back to the topic of the post, what vegetarian foods have any of you found are good for your symptoms?

It's so hard to evaluate these things; it's not like you can really be scientific with yourself.

For instance, this morning I had only oatmeal and a protein supplement and I nearly went out of mind with just anxiety and ragefulness--but this could be: a) not enough carbs b) not enough sugar specifically c) not enough food (mostly likely) or d) a coincidence. I'm not willing to risk another morning by eating the same thing again, so I won't be able to test whether or not it was a coincidence.

yes, back to the topic of the post, what vegetarian foods have any of you found are good for your symptoms?

It's so hard to evaluate these things; it's not like you can really be scientific with yourself.

If you have specific behaviors/feelings/measurements that you want to change, you can evaluate diet changes by first taking a baseline for at least a week (ideally longer), then continue to record your behaviors when you make the dietary change (or whatever type of treatment/change you try).

For something like cholesterol & weight, you already know your baseline (your starting cholestrol level & weight). Assuming you haven't made any other major life changes, you can see if a change in diet is successful at lowering cholesterol & weight by checking these measurements after several weeks/months of trying a new diet.

For something like energy level, you need to decide on some sort of scale:
EXAMPLES:

your own rating scale
your ability to sustain an actiivity for x number of minutes
what time you fall asleep
how productive you are (such as how much time spent on household chores or how quickly you complete tasks at work)
Take baseline measures for yourself for 2 - 4 weeks (one week at the very least). Make the diet change. Take measures after a few weeks ...or take measures one day* every week for several months.
*pick a different day each week

Keep in mind that for some treatments, you may feel worse before you feel better. Kids behaviors often worsen when a behavior program is started, but once they get used to the change, their behavior improves beyond what they were doing prior to the behavior program. With major diet changes, you may feel bad initially because your body needs to adjust to the change in nutrients. For example, you may initially have headaches if you remove caffiene from your diet ...but eventually you should feel better. Or you may feel tired & shakey if you drastically reduce the amount of carbohydrates/sugars that you eat ...but eventually your body will adust & you will no longer get these feelings.

i became a vegetarian at 14 (a looong time ago) but in my twenties went back to eating meat, against my own personal beliefs...which i won't get into here.

what i want to know is:

what exactly is the difference between a vegan diet and a vegetarian diet? i do not remember there being distincions like this from so many years ago, but at 14 perhaps i simply didn't know about them. is it the fish, or maybe dairy?

further, is there any consensus amongst vegan/vegetarian adders as to what symptoms are most helped by this choice? i suspect it is different for everyone, but just wanted to ask.

to those who do not agree with this type of diet, with much respect, please do not respond with the cons of vegan/vegetarian diets. i am in no way looking for an argument here, only iinformation from folks who are dedicated to this type of lifestyle. thanks.:)

Loma Linda University in California did a study of Seventh-day Adventist who tend to eat little or no meat and found that they lived 7 years longer than the average Californian. That's a pretty significant health benefit.

I quit eating meat when I was in 6th grade and cut sugar out in 8th. Now I'm not sure how much of it was just out growing my ADHD symptoms and how much of it was diet, but I went from being a struggling student to being an honor student soon thereafter. At the minimum it didn't hurt anything and I expect it helped (especially cutting the sugar out). You do have to pay attention to be sure you get your protein in other ways like beans, legumes, nuts, etc. Also, I eat pretty much what I want and don't have to worry about my weight. I believe vegetarianism is a valid option for those who want to pursue it.

Scattered

could you explain the vegan/vegetarian difference? i'll look on the web but just thought i might be able to get a quick answer here! thanks!

Vegetarian: eats no meat, poultry, fish, gelatin, or animal rennet. Basically, eats nothing that requires the death of an animal.

Vegan: same as vegetarian plus eats no dairy, eggs, or honey. Uses no products derived from animals such as wool, silk, leather, lanolin, etc.

thank you so much for clarifying that for me. would you mind if i asked which, if either, you are?

Vegan - for the past 5 years.

Hi all,

I have become vegetarian since more than a year ago, despite the fact that only a few months ago have I started to eat the vegetarian "meat", seitan - previously I had been eating mostly soy stuff, only a few months ago I began to stock seitan to consume regularly. Anyway, straight to my question...

This seitan is, as I said, wheat gluten. And as far as I understood from recent personal research, gluten is bad for ADDers... So should I avoid seitan?! How significant is the gluten issue?

I welcome your feedback...

Thanks and take care,

Ricardo

Being vegetarian may be helpful for ADD, because it gives more phytochemicals. Phytochemicals help much within the brain.

If you want to know more, go ahead a visit such a site. I don't like to tar a whole movement without evidence. I tell you want, if you will visit a low carb site, I will visit a vegetarian one -- if you can direct me to one that is health oriented only and doesn't guilt trip me about killing animals.Thank you for your open mind! From the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. (With references)
"A high ratio of dietary animal to vegetable protein increases the rate of bone loss and the risk of fracture in postmenopausal women<SUP>"</SUP>
<SUP>"</SUP> However, women with high ratios of animal to<SUP> </SUP>vegetable protein were heavier and had higher intakes of total<SUP> </SUP>protein than did women with low ratios." (emphasis mine)<!-- null -->
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/1/118

Dairy is an animal protein. The primary reason I became vegan is that osteoporosis runs in my family. I've read many articles citing the link between osteop. and high-protein diets and want to avoid it at all costs.

I have never seen any convincing articles that prove a connection between diet and the neurotransmitters involved in AD/HD. Anyone have some? I've not seen any difference in my symptoms as I've evolved from omnivore to vegan.

I have been a vegetarian for 14 years and was recently diagnosed with ADD. I also have general "food issues" (i.e. I don't eat enough but am not anorexic, bulimic, etc.) and a good bit of the perfectionism thing (e.g. procrastination, difficultly making choices, etc.).

Sometimes I wonder if my conversion to veg is related to some of the self-control and self-monitoring that I developed as a result of the ADD. Being veg generally means, for example, that you only have 2 or 3 choices off a restaurant menu instead of 20.

I have not noticed any differences in my ADD based on what I eat, but I was not really looking for them.

I do, however, notice a Big difference based on how much I eat. When I have a bad food day and don't eat much, my concentration/organization goes down and my perfectionism goes up.

Does anyone know anything about the specific advantages/disadvantages of soy products on ADD? Morning Star Farm and Boca make excellent soy-based foods and are coming out with lots more stuff like Italian Sausages and Pizza.