View Full Version : Managing Glucose Metabolism


SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:02 AM
The words like morality and greed put a wrench in my ability to fully agree.


Under the cover, post-initial development of mind - we're involved in a transition from the developmental to the completed mind.

Greed is an attribute of the developmental mind.
Morality is an attribute of the completed mind.

Greed (selfish) is a motivation towards building mind - though which expresses itself in other (very bad) was.

Morality is an attribute of a completed mind - which is both wholly globally and internally logically consistent.

So - consistent with all of species wellbeing.

The problem with the terms 'greed' and 'morality' is that they're worse than average (even for words!) at conveying meaning
- appear to mean something different to all people.

The completion of mind results in a transition from blood glucose elevation / reduction (pleasure/pain) as reward system to no mental association to blood glucose levels for reward
- that is, the transition to bliss.

We're looking at (very simply) - the transition from carb to fat (nutritionally) - through a biochemical / neurochemical transition which is triggered by the mind completing (the transition to wisdom)
- which lifts the organism (us) from attraction to blood glucose elevation
- supplanting this motivation without the same impulse to eat
- with the ability to shift to a ketogenic diet.

However - the combination required represent

-- completion of mind
-- living in a moral society (to eliminate psychosocial stress)
-- switch to a ketogenic diet
-- as much aerobic activity as is possible.

So GBYR is absolutely correct - these 2 factors aren't enough.
I know some people with severe ADHD who eat very similar to the diet you recommend,

and exercise more than average,

who still struggle with severe ADHD?


I feel like the words mean a persons chooses to be addicted.
Very important point - nobody chooses to be addicted - it's simply the state we acquire at first mind (when the mind first develops and words form)
- and which may be lost at completion of mind.

The addictive propensity is not chosen - though one might consider the loss of the addictive propensity (to work towards completion of mind) to be a choice.
Unfortunately, though, the choice isn't consciously made - it's a choice which is taken by the way one lives one's life.

Morality is simply (can be expressed simply) as a set of rational instructions which encode a system which is in the best interests of current and future generations.

Greed is simply the tendency not to want to follow those instructions - because of an innate capacity not to - to develop a hierarchical (with oneself at the top) system and not an equal system (with oneself as equal with all others) - which rules the mind until the mind completes.

The basic idea of problems arising upon first mind, in all of our cases is described - is the most important motif within the Book of Genesis and the work of St. Augustin.

-*-

So ... ... ... exactly as GBYR states - exercise + the diet won't be enough.
We need to live in a fair / equal societal infrastructure
- in order to eliminate psychosocial stress (which we're more sensitive to).

And - we need to develop the moral (See above - morality may be understood as a rational, logical instruction set) mind and to pair-bond (See pair-bonding and wisdom thread in the debates section of the forum)
- in order to supplant the motivational/reward system
- the need for stimulation ('sugar rush')
for blood sugar elevation

- with nothing particularly - the capacity to obtain our few necessary calories from fat.

It really is very sensible of the body - to encode an under-the-cover switch from silly glucose to very sensible fat - from a strictly energetic perspective.

However - the mind/brain isn't ever going to be wholly enthralled with the transition from carbs to fat - until the neurochemical motivation circuit which keeps alive the attraction to blood glucose elevation is kept in place.

Also ... ... ... I'm pretty sure (See previous comment on the very close relationship between PEA (in wikipedia) and the effects of dexedrine)
- that the completion of mind, triggers Descartes' pineal to describe an oscillation which results in the body's endogenous PEA production facility to fire up
- taking internal control - away from externally administered stimulant/need for stimulation (eg extreme sports fanatics) activation of the dopaminergic circuit

- and making activation conditional on nothing whatsoever administed externally -
simple existence is enough.

-*-

So - 4 factors - and not just 2.

In order of imprtance:
--1--- living in a moral society (to eliminate psychosocial stress
Note effects of stress on blood glucose homeostasis <- disruption

--2--- switch to a ketogenic diet
Note effects of standard Western diet on blood glucose homeostasis <- disruption

--3--- as much aerobic activity as is possible.
Note effects of a sedentary life on blood glucose homeostasis <- disruption


[and when the time comes]

--4--- completion of mind
Note effects of not making the transition away from attraction to blood glucose elevation on blood glucose homeostasis <- disruption

-*-

There's only 1 story going on, under the hood - here.

Development of mind to take us away from energy acquisition from carbohydrate.

Interesting to see the relationship between malaria resistance and mutation in glucose handling enzymes in the pentose phosphate cycle, also.

Natural selection is simply pushing us towards a massive de-emphasis of blood glucose levels (either lower or invariant)
- and we've been slow to catch on.

Most important - we need to understand the basic message from social epidemiologists Pickett and Wilksinson 'why equal societies do better' -
- and to change society - on a global level towards being truly equal.

This is accomplished by presenting all people with the ability to do for themselves and sustainably - in the very small handful of factors which people require to survival.

Ketogenic diet (see cow) + insulated brick box OR mosquito nets + hygiene.

-*-

I can't locate any workplace task (task which people do for money) which will be retained in a properly social / societally equal infrastructure.

Building, gardening, programming, art -
the sorts of things which people do for fun
- will be retained

- just none of the workplace assignments which we all know that people do for money -

- medicine, dentistry, law, banking.

How health'care' has fallen.

SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:24 AM
Metabolic syndrome under-recognized in bipolar disorder (http://www.medwire-news.md/47/88107/Psychiatry/Metabolic_syndrome_under-recognized_in_bipolar_disorder.html)



That's interesting.

Have often wondered why lamictal (versus epilepsy) became popular as a bipolar medication.

Epilepsy is spectacularly well treated with a ketogenic diet.

And Metabolic Syndrome also (I know of people who've stopped all T2D medications through altering their diet alone).

Epilepsy - Metabolic Syndrome - Bipolar Disorder
- all disorders (as well as many (close to all) others) of failure to observe blood glucose homeostasis.

I've noticed that I can drive myself to an eczematic (at skin folds) /asthmatic (severe wheezing) reaction using white flour products (the French baguette) alone !
And not much of it, either

- described previously on site.

-*-

Just one motif going on, here - we're changing into a more metabolically efficient form which requires massive de-emphasis on blood glucose levels.
Invariant levels - held in place through gluconeogenesis - presumably using glycerol (the triglyceride back bone) as its substrate.

Absolutely no fluctuation through diet or stress - required.

Upon the transition to wisdom - the attraction (innate) to blood glucose elevation (stimulation) is lost - I believe (am pretty sure)
- through activation of our endogenous PEA production facility (the pineal gland).

SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:29 AM
macadamia

~s (http://www.livestrong.com/article/364849-the-low-carbohydrate-ketogenic-diet-for-vegetarians/)~ olives, macadamia nuts, pine nuts, walnuts, Brazil nuts, avocado and coconut

Time to find out where one buys macadamia and pine nuts from ?

SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:54 AM
In a ketogenic diet, does the diet litterally use energy that would normally cause chronic stress damage?.

therefore relieving some chronic stress,

on the overall system?

I wish I could find what gave the thought?


In one line - the ketogenic state fears as though it brings about unilateral disarmament in the body's stress response.

-*-

Explained ... ... ...

It feels as though (I'm only a few days into the state - so may need to wait a couple more weeks to confirm)
- it feels as though the state 'calms' the system.

Blood glucose elevation appears to associate with that feeling of 'wired'
- of having a very low threshold for fielding an anxiety/fear based reaction - which 'confuses' the mind.

So ... ... first point, I think - is that the diet tranqulizes the system
- making it less likely to field a stress reaction.

Also - I think I've just posted a link to oxidative stress protection with the KD:
I think that this was it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22078747

So ... ... ...

the diet (from feeling alone) feels like it lengthens (quite significantly) the fuse which ignites the fight/flight reaction
- making us feel better - because maintaining the fight/flight reaction deactivated results in appropriate mental control/clarity of mind.

-*-

How do ketone bodies work ? to contribute all of these many health benefits ?

Maybe the answer is as simple as - it's the absence of glucose rather than any specific factor which the ketone body confers.

Glucose elevation pulls the body away from ketone body usage - I think that we're set up to use ketone bodies - and have simply fallen victim to a trick of the mind (the primitive reward system)
- when we came to agricultural innovation

- and have biased our own food production capabilities towards sugars + starches (addictive mechanism activating) - the exact same addictive mechanism (See post a couple above)
- which becoming human (developing mind, wisdom) has been all about transcending.

-*-

The one simple argument which should clinch this whole deal -

is that it's well known that we suffer from caries/dental disease on sole account of sugar/starch.

It's important to realise how ridiculous the entire field of dentistry is.

It's ludicrous - that human beings ever decided that drilling holes in teeth (with incredibly sensitive nerves running through) and filling them with mercury was ever sensible.

Completely ludicrous - especially since we then went on to observe inflammation in the oral cavity driving inflammation throughout the body.
EG here - (sorry - can't find it - found the article on science daily . com - a microarray based study).

So ... ... if one meditates on how ridiculous the entire premise of dentistry is - one arrives at the conclusion that human beings have been unable to operate rationally.
Why is that ?
Blood glucose elevation as reward system until formation of mind.

Understand this - develop mind (development of morality/pair-bonding) - escape the primitive reward system - activate the higher reward system (properly social - pineal PEA production)
- lose the attraction for blood glucose elevation (stimulation) - freedom to eat a sufficient ketogenic diet (mimics the very healthy fasting state)

- gain free will - gain capacity to use the mind - rationally, logically, morally.

The mind is meant to generate systems for all of species wellbeing.

SB_UK
04-29-12, 05:00 AM
Epilepsy - Metabolic Syndrome - Bipolar Disorder
- all disorders (as well as many (close to all) others) of failure to observe blood glucose homeostasis.


Just found this:
Calm in the Storm (http://mombipolar613.blogspot.co.uk/)

A blog about infantile spasms that evolved into bipolar disorder. Life with a bipolar teen.

LynneC
04-29-12, 07:26 AM
Just found this:
Calm in the Storm (http://mombipolar613.blogspot.co.uk/)

A blog about infantile spasms that evolved into bipolar disorder. Life with a bipolar teen.
Unfortunately, in this particular case, the ketogenic diet, which relieved the epilepsy spasms as a child, did not help with this girl's bipolar disorder.

SB_UK
04-29-12, 10:10 AM
Unfortunately, in this particular case, the ketogenic diet, which relieved the epilepsy spasms as a child, did not help with this girl's bipolar disorder.

Thanks - didn't read that far.

This post has remained in mind, since posting ... ... ...

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1013549&postcount=587

Alongside this one:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1253075&postcount=74

A connection between malaria resistance, epilepsy, bipolar disorder, T2D, obesity, cancer, cardiovascular disease, asthma, allergy, dental disease, greed (the Fall of Man - the sweet apple) and blood glucose elevation.

Don't know exactly when we're supposed to take a hit from switching to a close to zero carb diet - but several days in - and I've only positive things to say about this profile of eating.

LynneC
04-29-12, 11:29 AM
A connection between malaria resistance, epilepsy, bipolar disorder, T2D, obesity, cancer, cardiovascular disease, asthma, allergy, dental disease, greed (the Fall of Man - the sweet apple) and blood glucose elevation.

Don't know exactly when we're supposed to take a hit from switching to a close to zero carb diet - but several days in - and I've only positive things to say about this profile of eating.
A question and a request, if you have the time and inclination.
The question is, do you think that epilepsy is actually caused by BG elevation, or that the seizures are expressed when BG reaches a certain threshhold? That would be my view (the latter)

Secondly, I'd love to see a thread in 'Nutrition' that chronicals what you are doing re diet on a daily basis. ie specifically, what you are eating and when...

SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:10 PM
A question and a request, if you have the time and inclination.
The question is, do you think that epilepsy is actually caused by BG elevation, or that the seizures are expressed when BG reaches a certain threshhold? That would be my view (the latter)

Secondly, I'd love to see a thread in 'Nutrition' that chronicals what you are doing re diet on a daily basis. ie specifically, what you are eating and when...

From a day of reading how effective the ketogenic diet is in the treatment of epilepsy - and particularly how strict the individual need be -
- that is *no holidays* possible

- that it's ... ... ...

I think we'd need some data on how long seizures take to return after ? 3 weeks ? on the ketogenic diet.

If immediately - which is the 'feel' I have from reading a few pages on the Internet - then ... ... ... I'm probably going to return to the idea that the body wants to regulate its own blood glucose levels - and that any deviation above a very low threshold triggers attacks.

I've noticed (I'll find the post if you like) - that upon eating a large amount of carb (bread for instance) - particularly when I've been off carbohydrate - that I'll suffer cramp a little while after eating - on the same day.

Questioning whether epilepsy and the cramp I'm experiencing are similar in nature - the nerve cell / muscle cell (both potentially large users of glucose) - being forced into spasm through being exposed to too much 'fuel'.

-*-

Thanks for the question about diet.

Getting there - now on a full on ketogenic diet - but finding that it's not right - and so am about to start:
1 day KD - 1 day fast.

-*-

Pretty sure that I'm experiencing - exactly as oneup just mentioned (the 60%/90% idea) -

I think that the ADDer is predisposed to living life in the metabolic state which occurs after hitting the wall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Finding it impossible to push out of the aerobic zone - can't get into oxygen debt (immediate wheezing which slows activity) -

- and of course - we can add bronchial (smooth muscle) spasm - to epilepsy (nervous spasm) - to cramp (skeletal muscle spasm).
I've observed blood glucose elevation to result in an immediate asthmatic/eczematous reaction; every single time.

Also - stress is a common asthma trigger - and of course - stress elevated blood glucose levels.

I believe (pretty strongly) - that bronchial hyper-responsiveness/wheezing/asthma may be a physiological mechanism of preventing the individual going into oxygen debt
- keeping the individual within the aerobic zone.

All of my comments - I guess obviously - are trying to describe a transition which occurs through mind to body of a switch to a body which operates perfectly aerobically.

Saturated fat would be (as posted previously) - the ideal fuel for an aerobic reaction -
- controlled breathing (oxygen uptake) ~etc~

Looking at the body making a transition to the conditions required for perfect aerobic metabolism - the metabolic state post-hitting the wall.

Connecting to gbyr's comments - it's very difficult indeed to sprint after hitting the wall.

What's that comment meant to mean ?

I have the feeling that the fight or flight - the anger / fear reaction - much as sprinting (flight) is disabled after hitting the wall (depletion of carbohydrate stores) -
disappears.

I think I'm trying to describe the gluconeogenic state as being an enforcedly calm state - because the body can't mount a fight/flight reaction.

Something like that ... ... ...

-*-

So - currently on a predominantly 60g whey isolate/120g double cream diet - supplemented with desiccated coconuts, fish, nuts etc (standard KD fayre) - been on it for a few days -

- to introduce every other day fasting from tomorrow.

Finding it all a bit irritating - because of the need to keep protein levels down (unlimited protein (eg Atkins) isn't correct)
- protein drives insulin production (from protein power)

- and so eliminating carb isn't enough.

The problem with protein is that estimates range from 0.8 to 2 x body weight in kg in g daily (60kg - from 48g to 120g - which is a massive span)
- and protein metabolizes at different rates (highest to lowest
whey - red meat - egg - vegetable protein) - presumably meaning that the same weight of protein from whey isolate drives higher insulin levels than egg protein.

I'm banking on the double cream markedly slowing the whey isolate absorption rate - and splitting the whey isolate (60g protein) into 4 meals.

-*-

Nearly there ... ... ... it 'all' appears to be about eating a diet which invokes no insulin response.

Fat is your friend. :)

SB_UK
04-29-12, 04:20 PM
Good stuff -
http://www.bhia.org/articles/weight-loss/ketogenicdiets.htm
"Evidence indicates that ketogenic diets can cause sodium diuresis17,18,l9 fatigue,l8 decreased sympathetic nervous system activity ..."

and this is very definitely where I'm heading -
http://www.ketotic.org/
"Ketosis is the natural state of the body."

-*-

There's just an irritating bit of messing around with protein intake (how much, what type, how often) to get sorted.

I'm kinda' hoping that a return to intermittent fasting (tomorrow) will help.

mildadhd
04-29-12, 06:06 PM
A question and a request, if you have the time and inclination.
The question is, do you think that epilepsy is actually caused by BG elevation, or that the seizures are expressed when BG reaches a certain threshhold? That would be my view (the latter)

Secondly, I'd love to see a thread in 'Nutrition' that chronicals what you are doing re diet on a daily basis. ie specifically, what you are eating and when...


Thanks LynneC

SB_UK ,

I was going to ask you the same question,

the nutritional (science) thread is like a ghost town?

I would like to see your insights all in one place.

I know your insight is very valuable.

I need time to understand more and experiment more.

Stress and metabolism (ketonic bodies etc)

They seem to work hand in hand?


I have tonnes of questions in relation to the ADHD Mind vs ADHD Body argument.

the argument is like the nature vs nurture,(nature vs nurture idea part of this statement is inspired by Dr.Mate's insight)

there is no argument.



Brain can adapt metabolically to use ketone bodies as fuel-

Interestingly,

after many days of starvation,

the brain may develop the capacity (enzymes) to use ketone bodies

(a product of fatty acid metabolism in the liver plate 133)

as alternative energy source.

This capacity is present in the newborn brain but disappears after infancy

Kapit / Macey / Meisami, The Physiology Coloring Book: Brain Metabolism & Blood Flow In Brain Function, P112

mildadhd
04-29-12, 09:08 PM
Side Note,

I started the above post in the science section and landed in the nurtrition section!!

If you find it more confusing than usual.

I was.

:eek:

:confused:

:eyebrow:

:scratch:

:rolleyes:

:giggle:


Like time travel.

Awesome!!

SB_UK
04-30-12, 03:01 AM
~s (http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc207.htm#SectionNumber:1.8)~

Bacteria appear more resistant to acetone than protozoans.Malaria parasite protection once again ??

Acetone is produced and disposed of in the human body through normal metabolic processes. It is normally present in blood and urine. People with diabetes produce it in larger amounts. Reproductive toxicity tests show that it has low potential to cause reproductive problems. Due to the higher energy requirements in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children, they have higher levels of acetone. Ketogenic diets that increase acetone in the body are used to reduce epileptic attacks in infants and children who suffer from recalcitrant refractory epilepsy.

SB_UK
04-30-12, 03:13 AM
Close to positive now that there are 2 basic metabolic states in man -
the pre-hitting the wall and the post-hitting the wall in the marathon.

These two states are the states which I've called facultative and obligate aerobic (respectively) - and which represent anaerobic-capable to aerobic-only, more correctly -
(see Oneup's previous comments).

And ADDers are predisposed to living life in the post-hitting the wall state.

The fast catch-up growth which we see in Metabolic Syndrome, fast catch-up which just keeps on going - pushing the Syndrome X baby into full on diabesity in middle age - is caused by an epigenome which has been sculpted for post-hitting the wall pure aerobic metabolism, eating a non-Ketogenic diet (a normal Western diet).

Similar to Syndrome X kids, what ADDers do (ADDers overlap heavily with Syndrome X - see comments to GBYR previously RE:effects of stress + Syndrome X epigenome ->leads to-> ADD)
- in the absence of knowing the above - is (of course) to eat what feels good.

The primitive reward system (blood glucose elevation) is in place until the transition to wisdom
- meaning that what feels good is blood glucose elevation/stimulation/the 'sugar rush'.

Stress sensitivity in the ADDer - combined with the stress relieving effects of blood glucose elevation (processed carbohydrate) - massively increase the probems which the Sydrome X'er/ADDer suffers
- because the diet / stress push the ADDer away from our desired optimal metabolic state - away from the post-hitting the wall pure aerobic state
- into the pre-hitting the wall state
- blood glucose increases (presumably because of their evolutionary more ancient appearance) pull rank.

Eating what feels good (a trick of the mind) pushes ADDers into the pre-hitting the wall metabolic state.

It's a really interesting mechanism - we've an in-built program which causes us to kill ourselves in response to stress.
Remarkable !
Where - the mind (properly formed) is our mechanism of salvation - that is - to realise what's going on - and to do something about the:
[1] underlying stress (psychosocial) - by altering radically societal infrastructure
[2] by making only the ketogenic diet constituents available for people to eat

Always - psychosocial stress alleviation + diet (followed by the other agents of blood glucose stabilization - aerobic exercise, and lots of it - most notably).

It's only after the transition to wisdom - that the individual loses the attraction for blood glucose elevation (sweet food) and can make the transition effortlessly to predominantly saturated fat as energetic basis.

coconut

SB_UK
04-30-12, 03:24 AM
So -

fiddling about a bit with the diet - but I'm pretty much settling on

Starting from today

coconut + 60g whey isolate/ 120g double cream <- daily + peppermint tea
1 day KD + 1 day fasting.
3 hrs exercise daily

noting that this diet/lifestyle costs pence per day.

[Allowed for now - eggs, cream cheese, pate, tinned oily fish, olives, olive oil, non-starchy vegetable, peanuts/hazlenuts/almonds, mayonnaise, standard cheese]
- though want to phase most of these out too

Why ?
The diet has to be possible for 5 - 10 billion people and has to be sustainable.

We can manage cow and chicken products - which keep the animals alive and happy for the duration of their lives - and sustainably so (see Qinkin - Polyface Farm).

We're running out of fish and meat isn't available to all people - nor should it be - referencing the battery farm practices which 'd be required - and not only the animal cruelty - but the effects of these types of 'farming' techniques on eg viral (flu virus) evolution.

SB_UK
04-30-12, 01:48 PM
ADHD - anger predisposition (I have a child with this)
ADD-I - fear/anxiety predisposition (I have a child with this)

Change diet to ketogenic
->-
Dismantle the itchy trigger finger (in ADHD-I) on the Sympathetic Nervous System
->-
Eliminate the tendency towards quick to 'anger / anxiety' which characterizes ADHD-I'ers.

Itsa' all (and unsurprisingly) about the metabodiabolic system.

mildadhd
04-30-12, 02:10 PM
ADHD - anger predisposition (I have a child with this)
ADD-I - fear/anxiety predisposition (I have a child with this)

Change diet to ketogenic
->-
Dismantle the itchy trigger finger (in ADHD-I) on the Sympathetic Nervous System
->-
Eliminate the tendency towards quick to 'anger / anxiety' which characterizes ADHD-I'ers.

Itsa' all (and unsurprisingly) about the metabodiabolic system.




Interesting SB_UK,

I am going to trying some foods you mention,

Coconut milk really makes me feel better.

Going to experiment for a while if I don't respond.

I will be reading.

SB_UK
04-30-12, 02:48 PM
This sorta' thing ?

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/#/grocery-categories/coconut_milk_and_cream_in_asda.html

Can it be drunk straight out of the can ?

mildadhd
04-30-12, 03:12 PM
This sorta' thing ?

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/#/grocery-categories/coconut_milk_and_cream_in_asda.html

Can it be drunk straight out of the can ?

I take it out of the can,

and put it in the fridge til its cold.

I tried buy real coconuts but they always seem bad by the time they get here in Canada,

can cans be bad?

SB_UK
04-30-12, 04:46 PM
Questioning whether epilepsy and the cramp I'm experiencing are similar in nature - the nerve cell / muscle cell (both potentially large users of glucose) - being forced into spasm through being exposed to too much 'fuel'.

- and of course - we can add bronchial (smooth muscle) spasm - to epilepsy (nervous spasm) - to cramp (skeletal muscle spasm).
I've observed blood glucose elevation to result in an immediate asthmatic/eczematous reaction; every single time.

nerve cell, smooth muscle and skeletal muscle spasm.

what would that other glucose hungry cell type - the immune cell look like in spasm ?

atopy - anaphylaxis - the allergic response.

All of the diseases of Western living arise through just a couple of errors which human beings can correct if they wish.

All we need is a fair societal infrastructure and a ketogenic diet.

LynneC
05-01-12, 09:25 AM
Cramping is not so unusual when adjusting to a very low carb diet. I have some thoughts about your diet but I need to get them organized. I'll be back... :)

LynneC
05-01-12, 09:51 AM
OK, a few brief thoughts... you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. You need to know what you are putting into your body, and what aspects of your diet may be leaving you short.

Download Cronometer, a free nutrition software tool to help you visualize what nutrients you are putting into your body. This includes everything from the 3 macronutrients to vitamins, minerals, fat breakdown by type, etc.
http://cronometer.com/ (http://cronometer.com/)

Read this brief online biography of Dr. Richard Bernstein, a type 1 diabetic who did not accept the conventional medical and scientific wisdom back in the 60's and 70's about how to manage his T1 diabetes. He went to medical school in his 40's to learn how to save his own life. His story is a fine example of how one man, thinking outside the box, was able to change the way the medical and scientific community looks at diabetes management (blood glucose and insulin management). He is still alive and practicing medicine, btw. He is the master of the ketogenic diet, and a physician. This diet has kept him alive (along w/ insulin, of course) with nearly no diabetic complications...
http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/mylife.shtml (http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/mylife.shtml)

Don't forget about minerals like potassium, sodium and magnesium. Cronometer will help you make sure you are getting enough of these in your diet.
Look at iodine and vitamin 'd' . If your thyroid isn't getting the iodine it needs to function properly (likely, unless you are a big kelp eater) it will affect your entire metabolism...

SB_UK
05-01-12, 10:56 AM
He is the master of the ketogenic diet, and a physician.

There's gold in them there ketogenic diets -

but after 8 days on one (using only the products listed above) - I'm registering close to no!! ketosis with that kit I've just referenced.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857668/
... ... the brain can be forced to ‘shift’ its reliance toward ketones. This approach has been successfuly applied to both rapidly developing pathologies (glutamate excitotoxicity, hypoxia/ischemia) and neurodegenerative conditions (Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease) ... ...

SB_UK
05-01-12, 11:10 AM
OK, a few brief thoughts... you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. You need to know what you are putting into your body, and what aspects of your diet may be leaving you short.

Download Cronometer, a free nutrition software tool to help you visualize what nutrients you are putting into your body. This includes everything from the 3 macronutrients to vitamins, minerals, fat breakdown by type, etc.
http://cronometer.com/ (http://cronometer.com/)

Read this brief online biography of Dr. Richard Bernstein, a type 1 diabetic who did not accept the conventional medical and scientific wisdom back in the 60's and 70's about how to manage his T1 diabetes. He went to medical school in his 40's to learn how to save his own life. His story is a fine example of how one man, thinking outside the box, was able to change the way the medical and scientific community looks at diabetes management (blood glucose and insulin management). He is still alive and practicing medicine, btw. He is the master of the ketogenic diet, and a physician. This diet has kept him alive (along w/ insulin, of course) with nearly no diabetic complications...
http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/mylife.shtml (http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/mylife.shtml)

Don't forget about minerals like potassium, sodium and magnesium. Cronometer will help you make sure you are getting enough of these in your diet.
Look at iodine and vitamin 'd' . If your thyroid isn't getting the iodine it needs to function properly (likely, unless you are a big kelp eater) it will affect your entire metabolism...

He doesn't seem to be worried about protein intake.

More on the effects of protein on insulin here:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insulin-index/#axzz1tYOM5L6E
High protein, virtually no-carb foods like meat and eggs, while low on the glycemic index, measured high on the insulin index. In other words, while the meat and eggs didn’t cause a spike in blood sugar the way most carbohydrates do, they did result in an unexpectedly significant rise in insulin.Suggestion --- ??? High protein diet (eg Atkins diet) in the absence of exercise (particularly aerobic weight training) leads to fat deposition ???

-*-

Thanks for the ref -
http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/chapter10_6.shtml
http://www.diabetes-book.com/book/chapter10_4.shtml
It looks like nuts, tomatoes and onions need to be reduced all the way down also.

SB_UK
05-01-12, 11:37 AM
~s (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjn.nutrition.org%2Fcontent%2F112% 2F4%2F681.full.pdf&ei=hQKgT9_wAafP4QTXm7D1Ag&usg=AFQjCNGy91IyY00w6adSyBQZY6rLUHgwCA&sig2=ndRR85dFGZb8YeUshgUH4Q)~Fasting blood glucose and plasma insulin concentrations in rats fed the high protein diet were significantly higher than those in rats fed the balanced diet.

Darn!

Back onto the idea of a zero carb, low protein and high fat diet.

SB_UK
05-01-12, 11:42 AM
Aaaarghhh!!High protein, virtually no-carb foods like meat and eggs, while low on the glycemic index, measured high on the insulin index. In other words, while the meat and eggs didn’t cause a spike in blood sugar the way most carbohydrates do, they did result in an unexpectedly significant rise in insulin.
But there’s another dimension to the protein-insulin issue. When we eat protein-rich food, another chemical is released by the body that actually has a contrary effect to insulin. Protein-rich foods also result in a release of glucagon.
~s (http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foods35.php)~Glucagon also inhibits the release of insulin.

-*-

What's the correct answer ?

We'd expect evolutionary selection of the low caloric intake - ie an organism which doesn't require much food to survive.
I'd expect saturated fat to be the important component in a diet.
For protein next.
For exercise next.
And for carbs not at all - or as a method of laying down fat in 'good times' (Summer) prior to 'lean times' - to maximize survival in times of little food availability (Winter ??).

That we're designed to eat carbs (fruit, veg) when they're available (Summer ??) to prepare us for Winter - evolutionarily
- though no longer now.

Excess carb intake prevents us upregulating the enzymes required to make the switch to ketone body usage.

The ketosis state is so clearly favoured.

SB_UK
05-01-12, 12:05 PM
~s (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjn.nutrition.org%2Fcontent%2F112% 2F4%2F681.full.pdf&ei=hQKgT9_wAafP4QTXm7D1Ag&usg=AFQjCNGy91IyY00w6adSyBQZY6rLUHgwCA&sig2=ndRR85dFGZb8YeUshgUH4Q)~

Darn!

Back onto the idea of a zero carb, low protein and high fat diet.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm
Through experimentation I have found that the best way to get into the metabolic state of ketosis is starting off using a fairly high fat intake with small amounts of protein.

High saturated fat / low protein / no carb seems to be winning ... ... ...

SB_UK
05-01-12, 12:11 PM
This classic ketogenic diet contains a 4:1 ratio by weightMessed up - I've been trying a 4:1 by calories from (which is a 2:1 by weight) and not from weight.

Time to start again!
Classically, the ketogenic diet should have a calorie ratio of 4:1

Is it a 4:1 ratio by weight ?
<table align="center"><tbody><tr><th>Macronutrient</th> <th>Calories</th> <th>Kilojoules</th> </tr> <tr> <td>Protein</td> <td>4</td> <td>16.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Fat</td> <td>9</td> <td>37.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Carbohydrate</td> <td>4</td> <td>16.7</td></tr></tbody></table>
Or by calories ?

4g fat :1g protein
36 cals : 4 cals

A calorie ration of 9:1 ?

SB_UK
05-01-12, 12:45 PM
http://www.mynchen.demon.co.uk/Ketogenic_diet/Management/Calculating_the_ketogenic_diet.htm
It is very important to note that this is the ratio by weight and not the ratio by calories.

LynneC
05-01-12, 12:57 PM
See if this is helpful:
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/question-of-macronutrient-ratios/

SB_UK
05-01-12, 04:10 PM
This is proving a considerable amount more difficult than it should be.

meadd823
05-02-12, 05:53 AM
The diet or posting in the nutritional section? Sorry couldn't resist


The neuropharmacology of the ketogenic diet. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17509459)

In addition to acute seizure protection, the ketogenic diet provides protection against the development of spontaneous recurrent seizures in models of chronic epilepsy, and it has neuroprotective properties in diverse models of neurodegenerative disease.


Now I more or less understand why you feel this may also help ADHD - I wonder if it would help anxiety? My neuro doc said some thing about seizures and anxiety possibly being related because the same family of drugs {benzodiazepam} are effective against both

LynneC
05-02-12, 09:12 AM
This is proving a considerable amount more difficult than it should be.
It is a very complex topic, IMO, and tends to be simplified by bloggers who feel that their diet is best.
Another factor that can affect how your body reacts to macronutrient breakdown is your APO E genotype. There is good evidence that it does affect how your body metabolizes the 3 macronutrients. Not the most imortant factor, but still plays a role. Apo E 4 allele is also associated w/ an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease and coronary artery disease.
Here is a brief explanation of Apo E
http://www.atherotech.com/images/vapliterature/pdfs/testingfactsapoe.pdf

SB_UK
05-02-12, 10:09 AM
The diet or posting in the nutritional section? Sorry couldn't resist


The neuropharmacology of the ketogenic diet. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17509459)

In addition to acute seizure protection, the ketogenic diet provides protection against the development of spontaneous recurrent seizures in models of chronic epilepsy, and it has neuroprotective properties in diverse models of neurodegenerative disease.


Now I more or less understand why you feel this may also help ADHD - I wonder if it would help anxiety? My neuro doc said some thing about seizures and anxiety possibly being related because the same family of drugs {benzodiazepam} are effective against both

All great points - exactly what I was trying to get at in post # 16.

SB_UK
05-02-12, 10:13 AM
It is a very complex topic

Nearly have what I think is a solution - waiting for all the threads to settle in my head.

Whilst I wait - I'm trying another 7 day complete fast.

Want to see when ketosis occurs, whether it's less painful than the last 7 day fast, whether I can exercise through the fast this time (couldn't on the last), whether all muscles cramp up again on days 5/6 ... ... ...

- need data -

- ps - line of thinking

fed / fasted
Summer / Winter
pre-mind / post-mind
young / old

LynneC
05-02-12, 10:23 AM
Nearly have what I think is a solution - waiting for all the threads to settle in my head.

Whilst I wait - I'm trying another 7 day complete fast.

Want to see when ketosis occurs, whether it's less painful than the last 7 day fast, whether I can exercise through the fast this time (couldn't on the last), whether all muscles cramp up again on days 5/6 ... ... ...

- need data -

- ps - line of thinking

fed / fasted
Summer / Winter
pre-mind / post-mind
young / old
It's adaptation to the diet...
Have you read Hyperlipid?
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/11/brief-discussion-of-ketosis.html

SB_UK
05-02-12, 10:36 AM
The diet or posting in the nutritional section? Sorry couldn't resist


The neuropharmacology of the ketogenic diet. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17509459)

In addition to acute seizure protection, the ketogenic diet provides protection against the development of spontaneous recurrent seizures in models of chronic epilepsy, and it has neuroprotective properties in diverse models of neurodegenerative disease.


Now I more or less understand why you feel this may also help ADHD - I wonder if it would help anxiety? My neuro doc said some thing about seizures and anxiety possibly being related because the same family of drugs {benzodiazepam} are effective against both

I took this drug for severe muscular spasms also -
back to the spasm idea ('cramp', bronchial constriction in asthma, the anaphylactic reaction and the epileptic seizure).

All spasms - acute excessive pathological behaviour of our major glucose utilizing systems (immune cell, nerve cell and muscle cell).

SB_UK
05-02-12, 10:55 AM
Now I more or less understand why you feel this may also help ADHD

The problem with the Mount Athos, Inuit and Kitavan communities with respect to the Western world -

- is that those other communities aren't subject to the same psychosocial stress - which comes up time and time again as the key factor in driving ADHD disorder.

Since eating is self-medication (paricularly carbs and fat together) - then perhaps we'd find a natural solution to Western world diseases with the removal of the stressor (that is systems of inequality and competitive practices)

- resulting in the need for stress relief dissipating

- resulting in an appropriate diet - as long as the 'real' foods are available.

SB_UK
05-02-12, 11:26 AM
What should we be expecting ?

A growth phase -> A maintenance phase [after completion of mind]
Insulin/IGF -> ... ... ...
carb/protein -> fat

Completion of mind occurs in middle age (> mid-30's) if it occurs.
Completion of mind results in loss of the primitive reward mechanism - blood glucose elevation.

Carbs and Protein elevate blood glucose.

Fats aren't as gluconeogenic as Protein.

According to Lyle McDonald protein converts to glucose at a 58% rate and fat at a 10% rate.-*-

Want to conclude not many calories, however the vast majority of this small figure from saturated fat - with a small percentage from protein.
Want to suggest that the excess food intake of high carb/fat combination which we observe in the West is self-medication - requiring societal infrastructure change to solve.

Stress has us reaching for the jam and cream cake.
Alcohol is well known to be used as stress relief (particularly in woman).

Alcohol potentiates benzodiazepenes potentiates GABA
(the female archetype - slow down)

The ketogenic diet as the female archetype - maintenance/balance
to the
male archetype of carb/protein (Insulin/IGF) [U]growth.

Getting there ... ... ...

SB_UK
05-02-12, 12:06 PM
Want to conclude not many calories, however the vast majority of this small figure from saturated fat - with a small percentage from protein.
Want to suggest that the excess food intake of high carb/fat combination which we observe in the West is self-medication - requiring societal infrastructure change to solve.


Looks like I've arrived at this:

http://site.matthewsfriends.org/uploads/pdf/TypesofKetoDiet.pdf
The classical ketogenic diet: low carb, adequate protein, high fat, calorie resticted

Hmmm ... ... ...

The John Radcliffe Diet

coconuts, more coconuts and MCT oil (coconuts)

LynneC
05-02-12, 01:04 PM
In case you missed this part, from the link above...
Can you find coconut oil easily?
Quite a lot is written about MCT oil causing tummy upsets/cramping and vomiting and this can be true if the level of MCT oil is set too high for the patient or they are not taking the MCT in balance with other foods and over the years we have found that if you follow some simple steps then the risk of any tummy upsets can be drastically reduced if not eradicated altogether (so long as there are not any other underlying problems/medical conditions going on) and they are:
1. MCT diet oil MUST be consumed with every meal or snack.
2. DO NOT give MCT Oil/Liquigen as a drink on its own – especially NOT before bed. If a bedtime „boost‟ is needed then give it with LCT fat in something like milk or use it in a muffin/baked egg custard as a bedtime snack.
3. Always give MCT in balance with CHO, Protein and other LCT fats.
4. Start off on a very small amount and build up to the relevant requirement of MCT slowly.
5. If using Liquigen as a drink with a meal it is better for the patient to eat some of the food first before drinking the liquigen or even drink it at the end of the meal. If you have a patient that is prone to throwing up in any event, do not give liquigen/MCT oil on its own on an empty stomach.

SB_UK
05-02-12, 01:29 PM
In case you missed this part, from the link above...
Can you find coconut oil easily?



Looked today in a shop and couldn't find it :-(

So - I guess I'll stick to desiccated coconuts, coconut milk, actual coconuts and the (just located on-line) MCT oil.

http://www.ironscience.co.uk/fats/mctoil.html

Like the fact that it has no taste; bit expensive though.

LynneC
05-02-12, 02:06 PM
No West Indian or Asian shops within reach?

SB_UK
05-02-12, 03:44 PM
No West Indian or Asian shops within reach?

:-)

Will look.

mildadhd
05-03-12, 02:02 AM
:-)

Will look.

:):):):):):):)

meadd823
05-03-12, 04:00 AM
I took this drug for severe muscular spasms also -
back to the spasm idea ('cramp', bronchial constriction in asthma, the anaphylactic reaction and the epileptic seizure).

All spasms - acute excessive pathological behaviour of our major glucose utilizing systems (immune cell, nerve cell and muscle cell).



Errr exactly what have you been cutting out and are you sure you are getting enough vitamins and minerals - Cutting out grains a common source of carbs can leave you depleted of Folate, Magnesium, Potassium, as well as a number of other B vitamins.

I also question the consumption of oils with every meal and snack, wouldn't they prevent the absorbing of some nutrients? - I have found too much of any thing is generally not a good thing

SB_UK
05-03-12, 12:40 PM
There's a beautiful symmetry in

simple fat -> simple sugar -> simple fat usage (as we're suggesting is occurring)

birth -> onset to completion of mind -> post-completion of mind.

Thatsa' the human life-cycle.

We have had problems making the jump from simple carb back to simple fat usage.

I'm guessing that there's a structure of mind which is required - which reflects a structure of neurone/brain - for the transition to be possible.

And then it's all about changing one's diet - to generate ketone bodies and drop simple sugars
- and upregulating the necessary enzymes to be able to handle ketone bodies.

-*-

Absolutely convinced that this idea is right.

Just a case of dropping into ketosis.

By the way - fasting without much body fat and exercising simultaneously doesn't work - we get colder and colder and slower and slower

- and are easily overtaken by 70 year olds on their bikes - who aren't even trying particularly hard.

-*-

Time to use coconuts to get into ketosis.

Ooops! Just discovered that coconut milk separates out ! Finished eating the soldified stuff - to find that there's liquid underneath.

Oh well.

SB_UK
05-03-12, 12:50 PM
Errr exactly what have you been cutting out and are you sure you are getting enough vitamins and minerals - Cutting out grains a common source of carbs can leave you depleted of Folate, Magnesium, Potassium, as well as a number of other B vitamins.

I also question the consumption of oils with every meal and snack, wouldn't they prevent the absorbing of some nutrients? - I have found too much of any thing is generally not a good thing

I think it's a fast track to get us into ketosis.
I guess maybe - it sounds unnatural.

I think maybe that it's most natural to use LCTs and not MCTs - for those of us in the UK ... ... where coconuts aren't available ... ...
but the MCT technique appears easier -

don't know - just experimenting - see what happens after a month or so.

After not eating yesterday and 1/2 of today - and becoming quite cold indeed
- the coconut milk / desiccated coconut had an immediate effect on heating me up.

More than just eating ?

I think so.

-*-

So - absolutely convinced that the human life cycle is of

predominantly fat -> predominantly sugar -> predominantly fat metabolism

And that the ejection from 'The Garden' refers to the process of building mind (the switch to an affinity for carbs - and subsequent growth)
- and upon completion of growth - that 'maintenance' is called for
- which is performed by a metabolic shift to the use of predominantly fat / ketone bodies.

So much easier to view religion this way -
as a biochemical transition which ensures healthy aging

- fail to undergo the transition - and remain stuck in the carbohydrate stage and

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the diseases of Western living.

Nature hasn't designed us to be locked into a perpetual growth cycle -
we grow and then *when* grown (when the mind completes)
- maintain.

The shift back to fat.

Ketosis is the state we're meant to (and do welcome) upon completion of mind.

The taste so far is of 'calm'.

Still a way to go though.

LynneC
05-03-12, 12:55 PM
By the way - fasting without much body fat and exercising simultaneously doesn't work - we get colder and colder and slower and slower

- and are easily overtaken by 70 year olds on their bikes - who aren't even trying particularly hard.
Perhaps the 70 year old was really a very weather-worn 40 year old? ; 0

At any rate, it appears you are a quick study... :p

meadd823
05-04-12, 08:20 AM
There's a beautiful symmetry in

simple fat -> simple sugar -> simple fat usage (as we're suggesting is occurring)

birth -> onset to completion of mind -> post-completion of mind.

Thatsa' the human life-cycle.

We have had problems making the jump from simple carb back to simple fat usage.

I'm guessing that there's a structure of mind which is required - which reflects a structure of neurone/brain - for the transition to be possible.

And then it's all about changing one's diet - to generate ketone bodies and drop simple sugars
- and upregulating the necessary enzymes to be able to handle ketone bodies.

-*-

Absolutely convinced that this idea is right.

Just a case of dropping into ketosis.

By the way - fasting without much body fat and exercising simultaneously doesn't work - we get colder and colder and slower and slower

- and are easily overtaken by 70 year olds on their bikes - who aren't even trying particularly hard.

-*-

Time to use coconuts to get into ketosis.

Ooops! Just discovered that coconut milk separates out ! Finished eating the soldified stuff - to find that there's liquid underneath.

Oh well.

Yeah I have made some of those coconut milk discoveries myself from time to time . ..

Low-carbohydrate diets: nutritional and physiological aspects. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16436102)


The currently available scientific literature shows that low-carbohydrate diets acutely induce a number of favourable effects, such as a rapid weight loss, decrease of fasting glucose and insulin levels, reduction of circulating triglyceride levels and improvement of blood pressure.

On the other hand some less desirable immediate effects such as enhanced lean body mass loss, increased urinary calcium loss, increased plasma homocysteine levels, increased low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol have been reported.

However, these undesirable effects may be counteracted with consumption of a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, low-fat diet, because this type of diet has been shown to induce favourable effects on feelings of satiety and hunger, help preserve lean body mass, effectively reduce fat mass and beneficially impact on insulin sensitivity and on blood lipid status while supplying sufficient calcium for bone mass maintenance.

You may be loosing to much lean muscle to rapidly - Our muscles are a source of heat as well as speed and endurance = hence shivering.

Also if you are running and she is riding a bike umm it's okay if she pasess you up bike are faster than feet - The time you need to really worry is when you are riding a bike and the 70 year old runs past you without breaking a sweat - If this happen I would find motor vehicle chase down 70 year old and find out what kind of diet she is on! :p

SB_UK
05-04-12, 09:54 AM
if this happen i would find motor vehicle chase down 70 year old and find out what kind of diet she is on! :p

:)

.....

SB_UK
05-04-12, 10:00 AM
Immediately upon taking MCT oil - can feel it working - a sharpening of mind, greater energy, greater decisiveness

- there really is something very important indeed in this product - or rather in saturated fat more generally with respect to the ADDer brain/mind functionality.

Somebody really does need to check out whether the ADDer mind is adapted to metabolise ketone bodies - because that's what it feels like

(Referencing oneup for the idea in the science subforum)

SB_UK
05-04-12, 10:09 AM
Yeah I have made some of those coconut milk discoveries myself from time to time . ..

Low-carbohydrate diets: nutritional and physiological aspects. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16436102)


The currently available scientific literature shows that low-carbohydrate diets acutely induce a number of favourable effects, such as a rapid weight loss, decrease of fasting glucose and insulin levels, reduction of circulating triglyceride levels and improvement of blood pressure.

On the other hand some less desirable immediate effects such as enhanced lean body mass loss, increased urinary calcium loss, increased plasma homocysteine levels, increased low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol have been reported.

However, these undesirable effects may be counteracted with consumption of a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, low-fat diet, because this type of diet has been shown to induce favourable effects on feelings of satiety and hunger, help preserve lean body mass, effectively reduce fat mass and beneficially impact on insulin sensitivity and on blood lipid status while supplying sufficient calcium for bone mass maintenance.

You may be loosing to much lean muscle to rapidly - Our muscles are a source of heat as well as speed and endurance = hence shivering.

Also if you are running and she is riding a bike umm it's okay if she pasess you up bike are faster than feet - The time you need to really worry is when you are riding a bike and the 70 year old runs past you without breaking a sweat - If this happen I would find motor vehicle chase down 70 year old and find out what kind of diet she is on! :p

MCT oil with pure whey isolate on the side.

NO cooking!
NO washing up!
NO refrigeration!
NO electricity/gas necessary!
NO supermarket trips!

Just a couple of deliveries a year.

ADD heaven.

coconuts and cows.

(did you know that salt is used as a fertilizer for coconuts ?

Never hear of that before:
http://www.mixph.com/2008/08/salt-an-effective-and-cheap-fertilizer-for-coconut.html

Human beings are capable of growing grass and locating salt ! without messing 'it' up) ... ... just.

Presumably the scientists are drooling at the prospect of GM grass and fluoridated salt :-) NaF (Naff (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Naff)).

SB_UK
05-06-12, 04:42 PM
Day 3 ends in raging ketosis - 50 units

Tried a chocolate bar (twix) - immediate pain - hands/feet.

Tolerance to blood glucose variation would appear to be close to zero.

Invariant blood glucose levels defined.

The pleasure/pain paradigm has died.

Free at last ?

-> All about becoming an optimal aerobic chemical reaction <-

food type - ketogenic
muscle type - white not red
food amount
breathing rate and profile (long out breath)
activity performed - aerobic preferred or building aerobic capacity
stress averse - like anaerobic exercise - disrupts.increases blood glucose - messes up the reaction

LynneC
05-07-12, 10:59 AM
OK, so now that you seemed to have hit upon a combo that helps you, you must figure out how to add back in the things that your body needs on a cellular level to function. Minerals, vitamins, etc...

SB_UK
05-07-12, 03:01 PM
OK, so now that you seemed to have hit upon a combo that helps you, you must figure out how to add back in the things that your body needs on a cellular level to function. Minerals, vitamins, etc...

a multi mineral/vitamin tablet ?

mildadhd
05-07-12, 03:15 PM
SB_UK

I was wondering if you had any information about.

MSG And Glutamate in general.

Also information or insight about G-Proteins.

SB_UK
05-07-12, 04:16 PM
:-)
I've been thinking about this since yesterday.

The male/female archetype idea would call for the glutamate/GABA balance within the brain to be unimpeded by eating MSG/glutamate rich foods.

Aarghh!
This site wipes out many of the cheapo foods on my ketogenic list.
http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id31.html

Peanuts, almonds, cheese and meat (temporarily re-introduced) look as though they're all scheduled for deletion.

Incredible stuff.

So coconuts, whey isolate, cream, eggs, fish, olives and non-starchy veg remain.

Have waivered on cheese and nuts - sometimes sure - sometimes not so sure that they're associated with wheezing/asthma.

Everything making sense so far ... ... ...

mildadhd
05-07-12, 04:31 PM
:-)
I've been thinking about this since yesterday.

The male/female archetype idea would call for the glutamate/GABA balance within the brain to be unimpeded by eating MSG/glutamate rich foods.

Aarghh!
This site wipes out many of the cheapo foods on my ketogenic list.
http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id31.html

Peanuts, almonds, cheese and meat (temporarily re-introduced) look as though they're all scheduled for deletion.

Incredible stuff.

So coconuts, whey isolate, cream, eggs, fish, olives and non-starchy veg remain.

Have waivered on cheese and nuts - sometimes sure - sometimes not so sure that they're associated with wheezing/asthma.

Everything making sense so far ... ... ...


Great information,

Yes I am following so far.

SB_UK
05-07-12, 04:43 PM
See conclusions - section 6 on the page below:
this (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l25fw-jhJRIC&pg=PA194&lpg=PA194&dq=glutamate+rich+foods+asthma&source=bl&ots=TA4L8CzrJw&sig=-YxUdW4e5VtqMoeMqmJ1DgLBb9c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qTKoT4v2E9SY0QXqkJSYBA&ved=0CF0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=glutamate%20rich%20foods%20asthma&f=false)

SB_UK
05-08-12, 01:28 AM
Ideas which come to mind:

1 - ADDers are trying to shift away from taste receptor stimulation (of the dopaminergic system).
Salt (Na+)
L-Glutamate (foods listed above)
Sweet (blood glucose)

The same general argument as elsewhere - shifting from the need for material/mental world factors for stimulation (activation of the dopaminergic system) to a 'type' which can derive sufficient stimulation from simple existence.

2 - The very great issues we have with memory are related to over-consumption of L-glutamate - and the effects which this agent has on the NMDA system.
N-Methyl-<small>D</small>-aspartic acid or N-Methyl-<small>D</small>-aspartate (NMDA) is an amino acid derivative which acts as a specific agonist at the NMDA receptor mimicking the action of glutamate ... ...
The NMDA receptor (NMDAR), a glutamate receptor, is the predominant molecular device for controlling synaptic plasticity and memory function.

Makes sense ?
So we're disrupting our own minds by the attraction to/actually consuming L-glutamate.

-*-

Basic problem

From one of the posts above - how much protein are we actually able to eat safely ? and the follow-up question, which sources of protein are we actually able to eat safely ?

Working on 1g per kg of protein daily (or every other day) from fish, whey isolate and egg -
- but for no solid reason - I guess that glutamate and aspartate will be in all proteins -
- and as for the recommended intake ... ... ...

Using whether foodstuffs trigger 'wheezing' to assess whether they're suitable.

-*-

It turns out that the ADDer requires a very different profile of life, society, environment, diet, exercise; becoming easier to think - however - the same basic problem remains -
money is immoral - there's no way to have a mind and earn money
- only those without a mind (in which the primitive reward system is still active) can generate motivation (actually can find that form of reward motivational).

2 days without exercise (raining) and despite maintaining a pure ketogenic diet (4:1 weight ratio - the majority of which comes from MCT oil)
- I'm no longer in ketosis.

SB_UK
05-08-12, 01:40 AM
http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/index.php?p=glutimate-aspartate-gard
The GARD is an elimination diet. It specifies foods (and food products/ingredients) that should be avoided:


gluten - commonly derived from wheat and grains
casein - protein found in cow milk (and most dairy products)
soy
corn - including corn syrup and corn derivative products
MSG (mono-sodium glutamate) - this a very common food ingredient in processed foods even though it is rarely clearly labeled as such
aspartame - commonly used as a sugar substitute
glutamate - found in high concentrations in most beans/legumes
hydrogenated oils



So ... ... making sense - and all in keeping with the low-moderate protein intake on the ketogenic diet.

Looks like the protein source is important also.

SB_UK
05-08-12, 02:33 AM
The net effect of reducing glutamate would be, in effect - to increase (relatively) GABA.
All endogenously - no externally administered GABA agonists required - simply preventing imbalance by removing the glutamate/aspartate - rich foodstuffs.

http://www.research.ucla.edu/tech/ucla09-720.htm

UCLA researchers have identified a novel use for the neurotransmitter γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) to abate the symptoms of metabolic syndrome, Type 2 diabetes (T2D) and other related diseases. Mice were fed a high fat diet supplemented with GABA and subsequently showed reduced insulin resistance, improved glucose tolerance and reduced obesity levels. The experiments demonstrate that GABA, GABA receptor agonists and drugs that modulate cell surface expression of GABA receptors can be used as a treatment for metabolic disease and T2D.

-*-

Smooth muscle peristalysis/contraction increases with blood glucose as energetic source.
Smooth muscle peristalysis/contraction decreases with fat/ketone bodies as energetic source.

So we've a connection between stimulant/stimulation/excitatory molecules/male archetypes -
- of glucose and glutamate
and a connection between the stabilizing, balancing, controlling female archetype
- of fat and GABA.

Male archetype - fire - go faster.
Female archetype - water - tame/balance fire.

Female archetype arises after Male archetype.

Can't slow something down until it has speeded up.

-*-

Generally - the male archetype is favoured by people (glutamate, blood glucose elevation, autistic-type thinking (the University system - which can generate a research group to study even the smallest of trivial details)

- where the female archetype (which balances the male archetype) is an absolute requirement to render the male archetype useful.

There's no point in information acquisition unless people (generally) understand that information.

Without giving away information to people (being able to describe information in a manner which people can understand)
- there really is no point.

If effort was taken to explain what each and every one of us actually do - that is, if we weren't able to shelter behind esoteric jargon
- we'd soon find that nobody actually does anything worthwhile.

The language barrier allows pointlessness to fester.

SB_UK
05-08-12, 02:37 AM
Is a major part of the fatigue we feel related to our metabolism wanting to be in ketosis - however our eating pattern pulling us out -
our exercise pattern pulling us back in -

- and so we live in the tiring interface between the two.

The body doesn't have a chance to adapt to pure ketosis - and the transition between carb metabolism and ketone body metabolism (gluconeogenesis) isn't easy on our basic energetic level.

Fatigue ?

mildadhd
05-08-12, 02:45 AM
Is a major part of the fatigue we feel related to our metabolism wanting to be in ketosis - however our eating pattern pulling us out -
our exercise pattern pulling us back in -

- and so we live in the tiring interface between the two.

The body doesn't have a chance to adapt to pure ketosis - and the transition between carb metabolism and ketone body metabolism (gluconeogenesis) isn't easy on our basic energetic level.

Fatigue ?

SB_UK

I want to read up some on the information.

I will might not say anything for a bit but I am reading.

Thanks The 1000 things vs 1 thing

"all" or "nothing" seems very accurate?

Weird how "all" could be 1 ,

and "nothing" be 1000 ?

although I feel selfish in the 1 thing mode?

I guess 1 mode would be "all".

Which would be better than "nothing"

Reminds me of,

"Free before equal".-Milton Friedman (thats the only thing I know about him) (but I really like the three words like that)?

Which kind of appears selfish also but is it?



Later.

SB_UK
05-08-12, 03:10 AM
So - what we appear to be observing is - exposure of a manufactured basis to what human beings do (based around the nature of the central motivational system)

- the 'delusion'

- and as we come out of the 'delusion' (shift reward systems from primitive to higher)

- experience a peculiar period of re-orientation as those 'things'/'behaviours' which were once motivational (which we needed to do to activate our dopaminergic system)

- we no longer require (to activate our system) -

- the transition occurring with a shift from 'external' factors to no need for extternal factors to activate our motivational circuit.

-*-

The attraction to salt/sugar/glutamate (taste receptors) were all about getting us to 'here' -
but once 'here' - there's a period of re-orientation
- which isn't terribly painful -

at least isn't terribly painful unless one factors in the idea that for survival to be possible in this world - one needs to express the motivation (to have that primitive reward system alive) -
the desire for selfish reward (for money)

- in order to earn money

- however the selfish reward system is lost on transition (from primitive to higher reward system)

- placing us in the unenviable situation of our mind preventing us from acquiring money for basic survival - on the basis that is wrong.

-*-

Similarities to the transgenic knockout model which Barliman described
- a transgenic knockout model for a component of the dopaminergic circuit.

The animal (despite hunger) was unable to build up the energy to seek out food -
- and died.

It's very much like that; with mind - the individual prevents him/herself from engaging in immoral anti-social pursuits (of course including money)

- compropmising his/her own continued existence.

This isn't good.

There's no way to escape completed mind.

It takes the wind from out of one's sails - there's no way to motivate without the completed mind's 'say so'
- it can only align itself with moral pursuits -
where regardless of whatever people do for money - since money itself is an immoral construct
- everything that people do for money - is automatically shifted 'out of bounds' to this type of mind.

So - evern regardless to the activity performed for money.

Of course, the activity performed (when analysed) will often be seen to be immoral (anti-social) also - but we don't need to 'make it' that far ... ... ...

mildadhd
05-08-12, 11:06 AM
So - what we appear to be observing is - exposure of a manufactured basis to what human beings do (based around the nature of the central motivational system)

- the 'delusion'

- and as we come out of the 'delusion' (shift reward systems from primitive to higher)

- experience a peculiar period of re-orientation as those 'things'/'behaviours' which were once motivational (which we needed to do to activate our dopaminergic system)

- we no longer require (to activate our system) -

- the transition occurring with a shift from 'external' factors to no need for extternal factors to activate our motivational circuit.

-*-

The attraction to salt/sugar/glutamate (taste receptors) were all about getting us to 'here' -
but once 'here' - there's a period of re-orientation
- which isn't terribly painful -

at least isn't terribly painful unless one factors in the idea that for survival to be possible in this world - one needs to express the motivation (to have that primitive reward system alive) -
the desire for selfish reward (for money)

- in order to earn money

- however the selfish reward system is lost on transition (from primitive to higher reward system)

- placing us in the unenviable situation of our mind preventing us from acquiring money for basic survival - on the basis that is wrong.

-*-

Similarities to the transgenic knockout model which Barliman described
- a transgenic knockout model for a component of the dopaminergic circuit.

The animal (despite hunger) was unable to build up the energy to seek out food -
- and died.

It's very much like that; with mind - the individual prevents him/herself from engaging in immoral anti-social pursuits (of course including money)

- compropmising his/her own continued existence.

This isn't good.

There's no way to escape completed mind.

It takes the wind from out of one's sails - there's no way to motivate without the completed mind's 'say so'
- it can only align itself with moral pursuits -
where regardless of whatever people do for money - since money itself is an immoral construct
- everything that people do for money - is automatically shifted 'out of bounds' to this type of mind.

So - evern regardless to the activity performed for money.

Of course, the activity performed (when analysed) will often be seen to be immoral (anti-social) also - but we don't need to 'make it' that far ... ... ...

It really is amazing to think of the differences human have been exposed to in just 100 or 200 years?

How all this different stimuli affect us.

Scary in a way.

Thanks for pointing out the thoughts.

I was walking around the grocery store last night....I really still eat bad...

almost bought so much "empty"....?

All the money I spend on things that I don't need and have no value?





Addiciton?

mildadhd
05-08-12, 12:22 PM
I was also wondering about cortisol addiction?

We need a big sound board looking type charts.

(the ones with different color buildings)

(unless there is a small amount then it would be a house)

(or a patio)


We would easily need hundred buildings in the chart.

There are so many variables.

mildadhd
05-08-12, 12:27 PM
I wonder if everybody's individual soundboard looking chart would be the same?

ADHD Syndrome Spectrome?

Apples taste like gold?

It really should be a slow process?

Desensitize is an interesting word?

If I think of it from and electricity perspective,

electrical flow

add stored "things" in my body.

Hormone adjustment,(so many more variables.)

think I might leave the cows alone.

Still going to be friends though.

I am going to try think very small steps,

thanks for the reminders.

SB_UK
05-09-12, 03:38 AM
daily diet
------------
60ml MCT oil / 40 g EVCoconutOil - 760Cals/96gF
30 almonds - 180C/3gP/2gC/9gF
Desiccated coconut + 1 tsp pure peanut butter + 10 almonds - 460C/5gP/3gC/45gF
40g whey isolate/150ml cream - 860C/36gP/2gC/77gF
200ml coconut milk - 400C/6gC/36gF

Total - 2660Calories, 44gProtein, 12gCarbs, 263gFat
263 vs 56 = 5:1 g ratio
Exercise 1.5 - 5 hours daily MANDATORY - including 15 mins weight training.

+ peppermint tea/stevia


Add non starchy vegetables in every other day.
Willing to add (variably) a protein-rich food also
(eg cheese, chicken, fish, eggs + olives/avocado/olive oil/mayonnaise )

-*-

The total calorie intake is standard - the big difference though is a massive switch away from the foodstuffs which produce an insulin response.

We appear to be very, very sensitive to agents which promote insulin.

Protein is a problem also (including the glutamate problem) - unless the individual exercises - and not just a little.

-*-

First thoughts - after fasting for most of this year without any problem - complete fasting (days) on the ketogenic diet are very, very difficult indeed.

LynneC
05-09-12, 09:37 AM
I think you are still adjusting to this diet. Once you have transitioned through the adjustment period I think you will be able to start fasting again and won't find it so difficult. What's the rush?? :)

How are you feeling on this diet?

SB_UK
05-09-12, 10:02 AM
I think you are still adjusting to this diet. Once you have transitioned through the adjustment period I think you will be able to start fasting again and won't find it so difficult. What's the rush?? :)

How are you feeling on this diet?

It's Ok ;-)

Coconuts everywhere !

Would be nice to learn how to use the coconut milk and cream and maybe ghee also in a non starchy veggie curry with lots of spices -

- maybe some time later ... ... ...

- want to get through a month on this fixed diet initially - before mixing things up.

Vegetable mixes with water/oil/cream are much harder to work calories out on.

-*-

Turns out that the impression I've had that we need next to no calories wasn't correct - it's more we've a very sensitive system to insulin - and so put on fat really VERY VERY easily.

Presumably that means that we deviate fat away from use when we eat any carbs/more than sufficient protein
- meaning that we suffer from cold -

mitochondrial uncoupling is ? decoupled ?

SB_UK
05-09-12, 02:14 PM
The Internet has lots and lots and lots of information.

http://jackkruse.com/what-powers-life-and-death/
This brings up this issue the Inuit have been adapted to. They clearly had mastered uncoupling their mitochondria. Their diets were adapted to high protein and fat thereby promoting leptin sensitivity and the high functioning of UCP3, so they could uncouple and make heat. They are well adapted to cold climates because they dissipate their proton gradients and have the ability to generate more intracellular heat to tolerate the arctic cold. Ironically, this is why they are also less vulnerable to degenerative diseases in their natural habitat and natural diet as well. Once their diets became westernized in the last hundred years with carbohydrates their disease incidence and prevalence rose accordingly. Why? They became leptin resistant and can no longer uncouple.

LynneC
05-09-12, 03:50 PM
There's been discussion about Jack Kruse on another board that I frequent. He has some interesting ideas...I need to delve into his blog when I have the time...

You are right; there is so much out there in the internet. The challenge is figuring out what is relevent and what is garbage. :cool:

SB_UK
05-09-12, 04:00 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16750194

The ketogenic diet may be of use in the treatment of ADHD.

How it starts ... ... ...

SB_UK
05-10-12, 03:03 AM
Sleep more intense / better on a ketogenic diet.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500368_162-654548.html
Lack of sleep has a bad effect on the "appetite control" hormone leptin, researchers say.
A few earlier studies have investigated the effects of sleep deprivation on leptin levels, since sleep regulates hormones and other body processes. During sleep, leptin levels normally rise. But leptin levels are also markedly dependent on sleep duration, she says.

-*-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/nov/12/short-sightedness-myopia
Diet could also play a part. In 2002, the American evolutionary biologist Loren Cordain linked myopia with a high-carb diet ... ...

-*-

Not eating a ketogenic diet (in addition to all of the above) results in:

acne, hairloss, benign prostatic hyperplasia
atopy (asthma, allergy, eczema)
immune conditions (SLE, RA, seronegative arthropathies)
dementia (Alzheimer's etc ... ...)
Parkinson's disease
Epilepsy
Infectious disease susceptibility

Of course - T1D, T2D, obesity, cancer ... ...
Of course - the cardiovascular, cerebrovascular diseases ... ...

-*-

We're observing a 'type' (ADDer, Syndrome X) which needs to have its insulin levels unaffected by diet + psychosocial stress.

Psychosocial stress mimics a hyperglycaemic diet - drives blood glucose elevation.

What happens to cortisol sensitivity in an individual in ketosis - after suffering a lifetime of (under the hood) chronic stress ?
Ketosis would have a positive effect on stress sensitivity (that feeling of being 'wired') - but ??? won't ??? obliterate the catastrophic metabolic consequences of stress (particularly in ADDer).

There's no way around this problem other than to guarantee all people - as a birthright on the planet - access to a ketogenic diet and zero energy house.

That's all that is required; the ketogenic diet won't be difficult to roll out - leaving

It will be interesting to examine the homelessness figures over the next 50 years or so.

So - that'd be 40 years or so - and it'd be nice if we could reduce the time-frame to couple, rather than 40 years or so.

That (home + food) actually matter -
the Olympics don't matter, the television doesn't matter, having more than 1 set of clothes doesn't matter, having a car doesn't matter ... ... ...

nothing else matters other than a ketogenic diet for all + temperature regulated sustainable housing.

The body appears to help out - by eating an appropriate (ketogenic) diet - the body needs less heat from the external environment.

Less painfully wasteful space heating requirements.

We have plenty to thank our mitochondria for
- though - the argument can be made to be circular -

aerobic respiration.

{{{ breathe }}}

SB_UK
05-10-12, 03:35 AM
myopia

acne, hairloss, benign prostatic hyperplasia
atopy (asthma, allergy, eczema)
immune conditions (SLE, RA, seronegative arthropathies)
dementia (Alzheimer's etc ... ...)
Parkinson's disease
Epilepsy
Infectious disease susceptibility

Of course - T1D, T2D, obesity, cancer ... ...
Of course - the cardiovascular, cerebrovascular diseases ... ...

of course - dental disease

Alopecia areata.
ADHD (!!)
Syndrome X/Metabolic Syndrome
Vitiligo
Mucous membrane overactivity - a persistently dribbly nose !

The list goes on and on ... ... ...

Just 2 things required - a ketogenic diet + zero energy housing to all people as a birthright (globally).

SB_UK
05-10-12, 03:42 AM
myopia

acne, hairloss, benign prostatic hyperplasia
atopy (asthma, allergy, eczema)
immune conditions (SLE, RA, seronegative arthropathies)
dementia (Alzheimer's etc ... ...)
Parkinson's disease
Epilepsy
Infectious disease susceptibility

Of course - T1D, T2D, obesity, cancer ... ...
Of course - the cardiovascular, cerebrovascular diseases ... ... of course - dental disease

Alopecia areata.
ADHD (!!)
Syndrome X/Metabolic Syndrome
Vitiligo
Mucous membrane overactivity - a persistently dribbly nose !
propensity to addiction (cigarettes, alcohol etc) and all of the diseases they bring
IBS/IBD
Coeliac disease
Food allergies
Sleep disorders
Speed to anger - mood instability
Anxiety/Depression

SB_UK
05-10-12, 03:46 AM
The entire bloated section of healthcare can now be shut down.

'fat' + a properly insulated house to all.

That's all.

SB_UK
05-11-12, 09:34 AM
Looks like the process of building mind/pair bonding/acquisition of wisdom etc etc etc

is all about the mitochondria generating a perfect host.

Impressive stuff

- and actually quite interesting -

from this observation - we can backtrack through the things we do (which perturb the mitochondria) -

and see these behaviours as non-physiological - tending towards pathological if chronically applied.

We (the epigenomic sculpture which has occurred with stress/mind/food/lifestyle etc) has been all about making our mitochondria feel perfectly at home.

Dotted around the internet - observations that the ketogenic diet 'protects' mitochondria.

SB_UK
05-11-12, 02:52 PM
Ketogenic diet effects noted pretty much from the start -

skin feels comfortably moisturised and not dry.

Solving all of the many disorders associated with dry skin, also.

SB_UK
05-11-12, 02:56 PM
We (ADDers) are meant to be living in the ketosis state.

We are aerobic by design.

A consequence of our aerobic design - is properly social by design.

A propensity towards completion of mind - our mind slams us if we step outside of a profile of behaviour which is not moral to the tune of our own minds.

SB_UK
05-11-12, 02:59 PM
Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian

The story of ADHD is more about those lil' guys than the human mind.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080801023945/starwars/images/thumb/0/0c/Midibp.jpg/250px-Midibp.jpg https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_od9B68SHN1-fj0a6XIPhadaW0GjFzuZkpgJ1SJCccvWHIx45fw

SB_UK
05-11-12, 03:02 PM
These data show that a calorie-restricted KD enhances brain metabolism. We propose an anticonvulsant mechanism of the KD involving mitochondrial biogenesis leading to enhanced alternative energy stores.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16807920

SB_UK
05-11-12, 03:16 PM
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/119/3/535.full
Very recent work has shown the role of 2-deoxyglucose, an inhibitor of glycolysis, in protection from seizures.

A fundamental shift in metabolism from anaerobic-able to aerobic-fixed.

SB_UK
05-12-12, 11:32 AM
http://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/04/calorie-restriction-increases-mitochondrial-biogenesis.php
Perhaps mitochondria biogenesis is stimulated by increased fatty acids.

It has been seen that ketogenic diets (KD) can increase mitochondrial biogenesis in epileptic patients (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16807920).

Both a KD and CR increase the amount of fatty acids available in the body, and fatty acid metabolism requires mitochondria.Alternate day fasting (to start up again after a couple of weeks on ketogenic alone)
+
A ketogenic diet
+
exercise-induced mitochondrial biogenesis

http://genesdev.cshlp.org/content/18/4/357.full

for ADDers to recover our/their minds.

SB_UK
05-12-12, 11:45 AM
Excellent page:
http://thepaleopremise.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/mitochondrial-dysfunction.html

Exercise is useful with only positive side effects such as fitness and muscle mass. Although exercise increases ROS through increased oxygen intake and energy production. So while cardio is the best for mitochondrial biogenesis, it may not be the best at sustaining mitochondria. PQQ, lipoic acid and carnitine also improve mitochondrial function, making them very useful. T3 can be increased by having sufficient carbohydrate in the diet to keep glycogen topped up and supporting thyroid function with adequate selenium and iodine. Ketogenic diets, fasting and caloric restriction are three broad dietary approaches and you probably only need to pick one. Caloric restriction is the most difficult and potentially most harmful. Ketogenic diets and fasting produce similar metabolic effects without suffering through hunger. Although you shouldn’t do a ketogenic diet if you exercise at high intensities (unless you do cyclic ketogenic) and you shouldn’t fast if you feel hungry. Fasting may have an advantage because it’s less restrictive and should result in higher T3 than ketogenic diets. BCAAs and nitric oxide can be supplemented, but we get these from protein and amino acid metabolism. Butyric acid we get from soluble fibre and dairy fat. It’s not a good idea to get resveratrol from red wine as alcohol is toxic. Usually the doses used in studies are beyond what’s possible through diet, so supplementation may be the only way to get a noticeable effect. We get vitamin D from sunlight. Vitamin D is an antioxidant and seems to be designed in part to protect against UV damage.


Optimal health with Sun + Fasting + Ketogenic diet with dairy fat + Exercise - particularly in the cold.

How easy is that ?? as close to no co$t as we could ever desire.

No health care, no expensive dentists or private doctors, no health insurance - none of any of that nonsense

REQUIRED.

SB_UK
05-13-12, 04:37 AM
- Comments -
Really unsure about nuts, cheese and red meat
- think that they all need to be reduced down to zero/low level of consumption.

All 3 associated with asthma and tooth pain.

Of the three <5 almonds/hazlenuts at a time seems fine; the very high fat cheeses (soft cheeses) seem better (more tolerable) than the high protein cheeses (cheddars) (??casein??) and any type of fibrous meat (higher protein) seems to cause automatic problems (whereas the high fat meats - pate/ preparations do not).

May 3rd 2012 - Day 1 of ketogenic diet (registering > 1/2 way up the ketostix in 'purple')

May 12th 2012 - Day 1 of re-introduction of ADF (alternate day fasting) on top of ketogenic diet.

Post edit
Just noted that the variants of nuts, cheese and meat which seem tolerable are consistently - the 3 high fat variations.

Fat truly is your friend.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 03:00 AM
- Comments -
Really unsure about nuts, cheese and red meat
http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id31.html
Foods rich in glutamate and aspartate:
2) Dairy Products: All Cheeses (cheddar, Swiss, Monterey Jack, Mozzarella, PARMESAN) are very high. Casein is very concentrated in cheese and is 20% glutamic acid by composition.
5) Peanuts: Very high, as are cashews, pistachios, and almonds. I have more detailed charts on the site to show exact values for the various nuts. Everything in moderation applies when eating nuts of any kind. So, I do not recommend you reach for nuts when you are really hungry unless you can stop after a few. Nuts are very good for you..in moderation. For example, seven almonds a day gives you what you need .8) Meats: Note: All meats are naturally rich in glutamate and aspartate. Lamb (and eggs) are the lowest, while rabbit and turkey are the highest. Fat + fish/eggs.

Protein provides us with as great a problem as carbohydrate.

Fish/Eggs (protein) just once or twice a week (Fish on Friday) ? Rest of the week - fat (coconut/cream) + non-starchy vegetables in fat ??

SB_UK
05-14-12, 04:42 AM
There's so much conflicting evidence presented within the scientific press/pseudo-scientific press that it's almost impossible to work out the truth.

It looks as though we have to discover the truth of what we're able to eat by trying foodstuffs and then waiting for a response.

I'm still pretty sure that fish and eggs don't cause a problem.
Fairly sure that whey isolate is OK too.

Have to admit that this isn't a very satisfying exercise.

http://dogtorj.com/the-g-a-r-d-made-simple/
1) There are 4 known “foods” that can induce villous atrophy of the small intestine*: gluten, casein, soy, and corn. The gluten comes from the gluten grains- wheat, barley, and rye. Casein comes from cow’s milk products and is mostly absent in goat’s milk, which contains a different form of casein. The relative absence of casein in goat’s milk is what makes it the “universal foster milk”.So -

1. Complete elimination of the 4 items on the GARD list (as well as MSG, aspartame (definitely a problem with aspartame ... ... )
2. Complete elimination of carbs (~10g incidental carbs per day)
3. Reduced protein consumption (0.5 - 1g per kg max).
4. Protein from 3 sources listed above (fish,eggs,whey).
5. Although not primary on the GARD list - observing problems with nuts and meat (anything with fibres) <- reduced markedly
6. Heavy lifting performed by fat (MCT, coconut oil, cream, saturated fat + non-starchy veg ... ... ...)
7. Alternate day fasting
8. Aerobic Exercise

That's a pretty challenging list - but do-able.

Why are many of the problems coming through in tooth / gum nerve pain ?
Highly innervated and particularly sensitive to excitation (excitotoxin) ?
Elevated blood glucose feeds bacteria around teeth causing pain in the sensitive ADDer (blood glucose elevating agents) ?

-*-

The ketogenic state doesn't appear to be enough, by itself.

There's a nice symmetry between glucose (carbs) and glutamate/aspartate (protein) elimination/reduction - they appear to be their (the 2 food groups) respective agents of stimulation/excitation.

Similarly - there's an interesting connection between the elimination of these 2 classes of excitatory agent and the alleviation of epilepsy.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 05:11 AM
SB_UK

I was wondering if you had any information about.

MSG And Glutamate in general.

Also information or insight about G-Proteins.

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/reward/images/gaba_glutamate.jpg

Glutamate - male archetype - occurs first
GABA - female archetype - occurs second - controls male archetype for male archetype's own good.

It's all about balance being achieved:
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/reward/images/balance.jpg

Purine rich (Adenosine) foods and Asthma ?

Adenosine receptors and asthma in humans (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579661/)

Protein again ! :mad:

SB_UK
05-14-12, 05:12 AM
I'm still pretty sure that fish and eggs don't cause a problem.
Fairly sure that whey isolate is OK too.


~s (http://arthritis.about.com/cs/gout/a/foodstoavoid.htm)~
Johns Hopkins lists the following foods as being higher in purines:


hearts
herring
mussels
yeast
smelt
sardines
sweetbreads

The oily fish too ? I haven't noted any problems with fish so far ... ... ...

This exercise is one whole great nightmare.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 06:35 AM
Purine rich (Adenosine) foods and Asthma ?

Adenosine receptors and asthma in humans (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579661/)

Protein again ! :mad:

Nah! Carbs again.

Blood glucose elevation, Fructose and alcohol consumption.

All described here (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gout-primal-paleo-diet/#axzz1upv7z0eP)

Elevated insulin levels, especially the chronically-elevated levels (hyperinsulinemia) seen with insulin resistance, also reduce urinary excretion of uric acid.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 07:09 AM
Elevated insulin levels, especially the chronically-elevated levels (hyperinsulinemia) seen with insulin resistance, also reduce urinary excretion of uric acid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21474346
These findings provide further molecular insight into Th2 cell development and identify UA as an essential initiator and amplifier of allergic inflammation.UA - uric acid

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/002187076890138X
Mean serum uric acid levels in 60 asthmatic patients have been compared with those of normals. Both the male and the female asthmatic subjects mean values were 1.0 mg. per cent higher than those of normal controls. This elevation has a high statistical probability (> 0.99) of being valid.We don't need any pharmaceutical corporation, don't need any artificial chemicals, don't need the gene products listed on the human genome, don't need proteomics/transcriptomics etc to eliminate disease.
All of those approaches are simply efforts to make money off disease/diseased people.

And of course as society separates into the haves and the have-nots - the diet in the poor worsens and the stress levels increase -
- and they're left spending the few pennies they have in 'healt care'.

Completely ridiculous - the bloated health care sector causes disease.

We can eradicate disease by shifting diet (and alleviation of stress).

Still (though) unsure about the minimum necessary level of protein (optimal range of protein) required; only using the figure 1mg/kg because it's repeated over and over across the Internet.

Believe that weighting the diet overly in the direction of fat imbalances the balance which is required - and that with imbalance on the fat side - that the opposite occurs to imbalance on the male archetype occurs -
that is with fat imbalance - that everything (eg smooth muscle peristalysis) slows down too much.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 07:24 AM
Aha!

In a correction to a previous comment about why ?? human beings lost the ability to synthesize our own Vitamin C.

Vitamin C interferes with mitochondrial functioning / replication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175748
The adverse effects of vitamin C may result from its capacity to reduce the exercise-induced expression of key transcription factors involved in mitochondrial biogenesis.

And we're (particularly ADDers) all about the mitochondria (fixed aerobic respiration) ... ... ...

LynneC
05-14-12, 09:55 AM
There's so much conflicting evidence presented within the scientific press/pseudo-scientific press that it's almost impossible to work out the truth.
Almost impossible?? :p

Not only is it almost impossible, when you are looking at these studies from the perspective of an individual as opposed to a population, it may or may not be relevent at all. Diet is not easy to decipher on an individual basis...

SB_UK
05-14-12, 12:39 PM
Almost impossible?? :p

Not only is it almost impossible, when you are looking at these studies from the perspective of an individual as opposed to a population, it may or may not be relevent at all. Diet is not easy to decipher on an individual basis...

You're right - it's impossible to work out the optimal human diet.

Find the issue of protein (how much and where from) most taxing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-protein_diet
Low protein, vegetarian diets have been hypothesized to be linked to longer life.Can't find any figures -
- thinking that 1 g/kg protein on an eating day - followed by a complete fasting day should do it ?

Hate guessing.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 12:49 PM
From a page (http://www.davita.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4182) on a guide on low protein diets -

~< 20g carbs daily.
~< 20g protein daily.
+
Fat.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 12:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6X_IvjVhzLA#!

20g daily

SB_UK
05-14-12, 01:09 PM
http://janetbrunomd.com/about/

http://janetbrunomd.com/images/sa2.png



aerobic exercise (at 60% max - fat burning intensity from ADDF: oneup) - lots
+
stress reduction (global societal infrastructure change - remove money, ownership etc)
+
optimal diet - <20 g carbs, ~20 g vegetable protein with the vast majority of calories from ghee fried non starchy veg, coconuts and cream.

Feels right ... ... ...

Now to test !
Drop whey isolate shake down to 20g (as a carrier for cream) every other day.

SB_UK
05-14-12, 01:22 PM
daily diet - ALTERNATE DAY COMPLETE FASTING
------------

60ml MCT oil / 40 g EVCoconutOil - 760Cals/96gF
30 almonds - 180C/6gP/3gC/18gF
25g Desiccated coconut + 1 tsp jam - 150C/1gP/3gC/16gF
20g whey isolate/150ml cream - 750 C/18gP/2gC/77gF
150ml coconut milk - 300C/4.5gC/27gF

Total - ~ 2000 Calories, 25gProtein, 12.5gCarbs, 234gFat
234 vs 37.5 = 6:1 g ratio

Exercise 1.5 - 5 hours daily MANDATORY - including 15 mins weight training.

+ peppermint tea/stevia


Add non starchy vegetables in every other day.
+
Willing to add (variably) a protein-rich food (20-30g) also

(eg oily / non-oily fish, eggs + olives/avocado/olive oil/mayonnaise)



So - close to eliminating meat, nuts and cheese.

Start - 15th May 2012

LynneC
05-14-12, 03:42 PM
SB, have you seen this blog? I just discovered it today. Very relevent to your goals, I think. This dr seems to have a very strong grasp of the biochemistry of it all...
I have just perused a few posts of his, and will spend some time tonight reading more. I thought this particular post mirrored what you are doing with your diet:
http://waroninsulin.com/nutrition/what-i-actually-eat

PS, note the emphasis he places on sodium, potassium and magnesium...

SB_UK
05-14-12, 04:18 PM
SB, have you seen this blog? I just discovered it today. Very relevent to your goals, I think. This dr seems to have a very strong grasp of the biochemistry of it all...
I have just perused a few posts of his, and will spend some time tonight reading more. I thought this particular post mirrored what you are doing with your diet:
http://waroninsulin.com/nutrition/what-i-actually-eat

PS, note the emphasis he places on sodium, potassium and magnesium...

Use a chicken bouillon also and Centrum advance claims:
<table class="ingredients" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>Magnesium</td> <td align="right">100</td> <td>
</td> <td>mg</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td style="text-align: center;">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Potassium</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td>
</td> <td>mg</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td style="text-align: center;">
</td></tr></tbody></table>
However he's using 400mg, 200 mg respectively of the two.

-*-

100mg Mg + 40 mg K
+
Almonds provide 286mg (72% DV) Mg per 100 gram serving100 mg Mg.
+
Almonds (21% DV) K per 100 gram serving 7% DV K
+
975mg (28% DV) K in a single avocado (201 grams). 28% DV K.

All very confusing - 975 mg (Potassium) as 28% DV meaning that they're stating that we need 4g !
Centrum Advance contains only 40 mg ! (??1/100th requirement?? - hardly worth bothering)
That chap is using 200mg Potassium (1/20th requirement - ??)

Herbs and Spices appear to be great for Magnesium and Potassium.
Must learn what to do with them at some point.


-*-

I have no insight into the amount required but generally do have really bad cramp - which he's stating is treated by those 2 elements.

LynneC
05-16-12, 08:39 AM
Use a chicken bouillon also and Centrum advance claims:
<TABLE class=ingredients border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Magnesium</TD><TD align=right>100</TD><TD>


</TD><TD>mg</TD><TD align=left>


</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">


</TD></TR><TR><TD>Potassium</TD><TD align=right>40</TD><TD>


</TD><TD>mg</TD><TD align=left>


</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
However he's using 400mg, 200 mg respectively of the two.

-*-

100mg Mg + 40 mg K
+
100 mg Mg.
+
7% DV K
+
28% DV K.

All very confusing - 975 mg (Potassium) as 28% DV meaning that they're stating that we need 4g !
Centrum Advance contains only 40 mg ! (??1/100th requirement?? - hardly worth bothering)
That chap is using 200mg Potassium (1/20th requirement - ??)

Herbs and Spices appear to be great for Magnesium and Potassium.
Must learn what to do with them at some point.


-*-

I have no insight into the amount required but generally do have really bad cramp - which he's stating is treated by those 2 elements.
Do you have a product such as this? 'Lite' Salt?
http://www.mortonsalt.com/for-your-home/culinary-salts/food-salts/3/morton-lite-salt-mixture
1/4 tsp gives 290mg sodium and a whopping 350 mg potassium. Cheap and effective...

PS, if you are interested I have an easy recipe for 'magnesium water', that involves milk of magnesia and seltzer water. Another inexpensive and easy source of minerals...