today i attended this lecture on "people with autism/asperger syndrome and how to understand them"...

the lecturer was/is a special education teacher, ph.d and habilitation specialist named eve mandre.

she started off making a lot of sense, but *then*...

apparently i have asperger syndrome because i'm "developmentally delayed"...
it seems my emotional/cognitive development *stopped* before i was eight months old...
i'm *not* *not* "normal" - i'm just sort of...*"slow"*...

and: it seems my mother *is* to blame for all of this after all (i *knew* it!;-)...
:rolleyes:

That doesn't sound right. Your development wouldn't have stopped because of AS. It just might mean that it takes you longer to mature. It's not suck a bad thing. My autistic son is 11 today and he's more like 9 emotionally but that's OK. I can't see how your mother can be to blame - you may have inherited it from your father instead. It is totally heriditary and anyone who tells you otherwise is talking out of their ***.

People with aspergers can miss social cues and have trouble with small talk. So what? Small talk is way overrated. Emotional development can take a little bit longer but some people with aspergers have very high IQs.

yes, i *definitely* do *not* agree with the lecturer...
:mad:

Yes Autism and AS are developmental disorders, which are developmental delays and differences, but if your development had stopped at that age you wouldn't even be able to feed yourself!

Global developmental delays do not cause AS - they can occur perfectly independently, and in fact severe delays in development would exclude an AS diagnosis rather than *cause* AS. Some "expert" ;)

Hi Scatterbrain,

Do you believe Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum or do you believe that it is independent of Autism. In other words, I understand there is a genetic test for Autism. Is there a genetic test for Aspergers?

Do you believe Aspergers is part of the autism spectrum or do you believe that it is independent of Autism. In other words, I understand there is a genetic test for Autism. Is there a genetic test for Aspergers?

While there may still be some (Schizoid-type) personality disorder-type thing out there that is a bit like AS but not on the Spectrum, it generally seems accepted that AS - both the cases Hans Asperger described and the common definition of AS as Autism with normal IQ and no severe language delay - is part of the Spectrum.

Also, while some genetic regions have been identified as possible sites for autistic traits, there is no genetic test for neither autism nor AS. What they do test for is Fragile X, as this is the most common cause for genetically caused mental retardation and also causes autism-like traits in some individuals with the mutation.

...and then there's nld...
i've "suspected" for a long time that i may in fact have "non-verbal learning disorder", and not asperger syndrome, but i don't know if there are any tests that differentiate between the two, very similar conditions...

any of you guys know?

gabriela--forgive me for butting in----but since I am hanging out :) , I thought that out of curiosity I would just check out old google.

Came up with www.ndlontheweb.org
Basically states that NDL is very hard to detect and generally people suffer in silence. Within the body, of all that text, you will find info on assessments.

Most of the tests appear to be directed at children; but I'm sure that there must be application for adults as well.

One summery describes, "Informative and understandable explaination between the various types of evaluators, evaluations, and componants of psychological assesments." [a very long article]

Have you looked at www.nldline.com

I also wonder if a speech pathologist might give you some direction and support. I'm also sure that we must even have one, right here in our company---here at the forum. Luck to you.

...and then there's nld...
i've "suspected" for a long time that i may in fact have "non-verbal learning disorder", and not asperger syndrome, but i don't know if there are any tests that differentiate between the two, very similar conditions...

any of you guys know?
Yes, I know.















Lol, ok, gotta love the sarcastic NLDer/ADDer response... anyway, yes, there are tests that can differentiate between NLD and AS. nldontheweb.org is probably the best overall and best introductory site for NLD info, so I would definitely check it out.

I went to the sites mentioned for NLD to try to understand what might be my now-grown daughters problem. Physically she wasn't especially clumsy, but she did never learn to ride a bike. She wouldn't let me take the training wheels off. :rolleyes:

She did test as having poor Visual-Spatial Skills, yet she was an excellent student. It just seemed that she had to work a little harder than some of her peers. She was diagnosed as gifted based on her verbal skills but she did fine in math.

Social Relationship Skills were truly a problem. She didn't get jokes, facial expressions, and was so literal sometimes that I just wanted to scream. Now she has a job far below her intellectual level selling clothes in a trendy boutique. I can't seem to persuade her to try college. She seems a little too focused on immediate material rewards. She is 22 years old.

So what do you guys think. Could she have this NLD?

I also wonder if a speech pathologist might give you some direction and support. I'm also sure that we must even have one, right here in our company---here at the forum. Luck to you.Don't go dragging me into this thread. I was just about to get offline and eat dinner! If I starve to death, I'm holding you personally responsible! :p

I don't know much about NLD ...so far as I know, it is not officially recognized by the powers-that-be --I don't think it's included in the DSM.

NONVERBAL LANGUGE DISORDER
Epressive Language - do not use appropriate non-verbal communication (poor eye contact, limited use of facial expression); normal prosody (???)

Recptive Language - normal understanding of basic language concepts; difficulty making inferences; difficulty interpretting facial expression, body language & prosody of speech

Behavior - relatively normal behavior??? dificulty with change

Sensory integration difficulties --primarily have difficulties processing visual information

ASPERGERS SYNDROME
Epressive Language - do not use appropriate non-verbal communication (poor eye contact, limited use of facial expression); speech often has unusual prosody (intonation, speaking rate, loudness of voice); word usage/syntax is "stiff" although typically grammaically correct (maybe "too correct"); may use abbreviated or telegraphic speech, especially in social contexts

Recptive Language - normal understanding of basic language concepts; difficulty making inferences; difficulty understanding abstract language, idioms; difficulty interpretting facial expression, body language & prosody of speech

Behavior - odd behaviors (ritualistic behaviors, repetitive behaviors), reliance on routines, may have extreme difficulty (become panicked or enraged) in response to unexpected changes

Sensory integration difficulties --difficulties processing auditory & visual information, as well as info from other senses; often hypersensitive to sounds


UGHHH! It's far too late. I cannot think anymore. I'm not sure how complete or accurate the above info is ...feel free to post corrections! ;)

Gabriela-
What expert was this?

Just curious...

today i attended this lecture on "people with autism/asperger syndrome and how to understand them"...

the lecturer was/is a special education teacher, ph.d and habilitation specialist named eve mandre.

she started off making a lot of sense, but *then*...

apparently i have asperger syndrome because i'm "developmentally delayed"...
it seems my emotional/cognitive development *stopped* before i was eight months old...
i'm *not* *not* "normal" - i'm just sort of...*"slow"*...

and: it seems my mother *is* to blame for all of this after all (i *knew* it!;-)...
:rolleyes:

Don't go dragging me into this thread. I was just about to get offline and eat dinner! If I starve to death, I'm holding you personally responsible! :p


aingagirl--caught me! Somehow, I knew that I would get the needed result.


[By the way, if you don't eat dinner, that's not my fault. We are all responsible for our own...................... :D So whadya eat?]

fyi-----prosody: the rhythmic and intonational aspect of language.

Gk [Greek?] prosodia song sung to instrumental music, accent....

Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary

I went to the sites mentioned for NLD to try to understand what might be my now-grown daughters problem. Physically she wasn't especially clumsy, but she did never learn to ride a bike. She wouldn't let me take the training wheels off. :rolleyes:

She did test as having poor Visual-Spatial Skills, yet she was an excellent student. It just seemed that she had to work a little harder than some of her peers. She was diagnosed as gifted based on her verbal skills but she did fine in math.

Social Relationship Skills were truly a problem. She didn't get jokes, facial expressions, and was so literal sometimes that I just wanted to scream. Now she has a job far below her intellectual level selling clothes in a trendy boutique. I can't seem to persuade her to try college. She seems a little too focused on immediate material rewards. She is 22 years old.

So what do you guys think. Could she have this NLD?
Well, at least she has a job :) and, no college loans. :D

It sounds to me like she very well could have NLD. I learned to ride a bike (with difficulty), but I was never able to jump rope, and I am "a little" clumsy. Just because she never had academic difficulties does not mean she couldn't have NLD... I got through HS with almost a 4.0 and graduated college with a 3.44.

If she's open to it, you could take her to a neuropsychologist or a knowledgable neurologist and get some testing done. Of course, at 22 years old, if she is supporting herself, there isn't any way you can really make her get tested or get help, but it's worth a shot.

I have read that NLD is due for inclusion in the DSM V, which is due out in a few years. Because of that, it's difficult for parents to get services for these kids that they sometimes need. Until then, we NLDers just have to suffer with a dx of "LD-NOS" or "PDD-NOS" or sometimes Asperger's. PDD-NOS and Asperger's are technically wrong, but very close diagnoses.

Hi exeter,

Well she does sound more NLD than Aspergers but exactly what help is available for people with NLD? She's a health/nutrition/supplement person, but I doubt that she would take real medication.

Thanks for the advice.

Hi exeter,

Well she does sound more NLD than Aspergers but exactly what help is available for people with NLD? She's a health/nutrition/supplement person, but I doubt that she would take real medication.

Thanks for the advice.
Much like with Asperger's, since there is no medication or other treatment that directly targets the disorder itself, treatment is pretty much based on addressing symptoms. It all depends on what your daughter's issues are and what about it causes her distress. Sensory integration, occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, social skills training, medication for depression/anxiety, etc, all can play a part. Also, since a lot of NLDers have attentional, executive, and impulse control difficulties, ADD meds and treatments can help, too.

Personally, I don't know if my primary dx should technically be ADD or NLD. My symptoms that are clearly NLD-based, such as frequently getting lost due to not being able to remember routes and landmarks, and occasional misinterpretations of language, actually affect me very little. (I am a delivery driver, but I have a GPS to avoid the getting lost issue.) My therapist and I have discussed this before, and I've somewhat come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what the exact, correct, primary dx is, because I clearly have a lot of the same issues that ADDers have, I'm doing well in therapy, and the meds are definitely working.

Actually exeter, I think the way she is distresses me more than it does her. She is sort of cocooning in a relationship that takes care of most of her material needs without addressing the emotional ones that she seems to find threatening. Her BF works all the time and is gone a lot so that she has her "space." What I see as a neglectful relationship, she sees as serving her needs.

In a way, she has it too easy. She retains her sales job mostly on the basis of a sort of superficial charm and her looks. To her BF she is arm decoration. Someone to impress his friends with, but he spoils her accordingly by passively letting her have her way and by material bribes to keep the peace. But I know how bright she is and that her fears about negotiating the world are keeping her from fulfilling her potential.

I am a former job coach and I am wondering: Can you teach social skills? It was always the most difficult part of job coaching. People can learn tasks but learning to get along with and negotiate with others is the real challenge. It involves catching the subtle signals others send.

Are there books that help with this?

BTW, I am asking you because you seem to relate quite well with others here at the forums.

I am a former job coach and I am wondering: Can you teach social skills? It was always the most difficult part of job coaching. People can learn tasks but learning to get along with and negotiate with others is the real challenge. It involves catching the subtle signals others send.

Are there books that help with this?

BTW, I am asking you because you seem to relate quite well with others here at the forums.
Aww, shucks. :D Thanks for the compliment. Actually, I struggle with social issues in the real world a lot, and I think it is because of NLD type issues. I tend to pay much more attention to a person's words than any kind of nonverbal cues. I also think this is why I enjoy my friendships with women more than my friendships with men... because women are so much more verbal than men.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaannnyway.... Supposedly, it is possible to teach social skills. I have no idea how to go about it, though. I have seen books on social skills training, but they seem geared toward children. For an adult, I don't know where I'd even begin.

I think I need to bring this up with my therapist. I'm chronically single because I refuse to talk to people based on looks. I think that if a person looks good, that's a good reason to want to look at her, but not such a great reason to want to talk to her. It just seems so superficial.

If I get any more insight here, I'll share it somehow.

Hmmm. Could you be shy? You know pretty young women can also be smart. Sounds to me like you are looking for someone who has it all. :) Of course, first you have to speak to her.

Hmmm. Could you be shy? You know pretty young women can also be smart. Sounds to me like you are looking for someone who has it all. :) Of course, first you have to speak to her. I wouldn't say I'm shy. I have no problem in controlled social settings like, say, a classroom. I just don't talk to people unless I have a reason, and looking good just isn't a good enough reason for me.

Edit: Yeah, I want it all. I'm worth it. :D

Can you teach social skills? It was always the most difficult part of job coaching. People can learn tasks but learning to get along with and negotiate with others is the real challenge. It involves catching the subtle signals others send.

Coral,
I've come to the conclusion over the last month or two that although I probably wouldn't "pass" a formal diagnosis for Asperger's I have some very, very strong traits is several of the areas it covers, and socialization is one of the biggest.
Quite frankly, I find most social situations to be mentally, physically and emotionally
exhausting. I'm not anti-social in terms of not liking people or not wanting to be aroung people. Its groups that wear me out. I feel completely lost and confused in the sense of having no real idea as what I'm supposed to do, what I'm supposed to say, and why I'm there in the first place.
I'm confortable being around 2-3 people, but more than that is pretty rough. I don't think I'm really what you'd consider shy; I can actually be quite bold.
I'd say that I've been "socially clueless" for most of my life. What I've done is by very careful observation and imitation I've developed the ability to pretend that I'm being social and "fit in", so I guess that you could say I've "learned" to socialize, but I really haven't. I find it almost impossible to start a conversation, and about the only time I talk to someone is if they ask me something first.
I know the "right things" to say and ask: Where are you from; what kind of work do you do; are you married; do you have children; how 'bout the Red Sox, etc. but all the time I'm wondering WTF is this all about? :D
Now, if you compare that with how I socialize here on the Forum, you'll probably realize that I do very well in writing. Its in the person-to-person realm that I find things very hard.
Gotta run, more later.

Coral,
I've come to the conclusion over the last month or two that although I probably wouldn't "pass" a formal diagnosis for Asperger's I have some very, very strong traits is several of the areas it covers, and socialization is one of the biggest.
Quite frankly, I find most social situations to be mentally, physically and emotionally
exhausting. I'm not anti-social in terms of not liking people or not wanting to be aroung people. Its groups that wear me out. I feel completely lost and confused in the sense of having no real idea as what I'm supposed to do, what I'm supposed to say, and why I'm there in the first place.
I'm confortable being around 2-3 people, but more than that is pretty rough. I don't think I'm really what you'd consider shy; I can actually be quite bold.
I'd say that I've been "socially clueless" for most of my life. What I've done is by very careful observation and imitation I've developed the ability to pretend that I'm being social and "fit in", so I guess that you could say I've "learned" to socialize, but I really haven't. I find it almost impossible to start a conversation, and about the only time I talk to someone is if they ask me something first.
I know the "right things" to say and ask: Where are you from; what kind of work do you do; are you married; do you have children; how 'bout the Red Sox, etc. but all the time I'm wondering WTF is this all about? :D
Now, if you compare that with how I socialize here on the Forum, you'll probably realize that I do very well in writing. Its in the person-to-person realm that I find things very hard. i can relate to *"all"* you've said, swamp!

OK, I just got back from Christmas dinner at my (business) partner's parents house. I've met the different members of the family many times before over the last year and a half, and they are all really nice people. The atmosphere was quiet and relaxing, and even though there were only 8 people total, I still found it very "frazzeling" to my nerves. It was a big relief to leave and come back home again.
Darn, I forgot what else I was going to say! :(

Oh yeah, I'm not anti-social in the sense of not wanting to be aroung people. I share a house with my partner and his wife, and I much prefer it to living alone. It's the social gatherings purely for socializing that confuse me. Being part of something like a work crew or team isn't a problem. I know what I'm there for, what my purpose is. I was supervisor over 15-20 man work crews for many years, and that wasn't a problem either.

Gabriela: What's "Sui Generis Moderator" mean?

i know i know
:charlie raises hand:

The phrase sui generis translates as “of its own kind.”

one of a kind or unique

actually did a quick search because i did NOT know;)

you're right, charlie!

i signed up to this mailing list, and so now i daily get an email with a "word of the day" - a *great* way for me to learn something new every day!
:cool:

i, too, like being around other people (i e i'm *not* anti-social), but i get *tired* very quickly...
not tired of *the people*, but...
i guess all the perceptions that *attack* my poor brain without my having the "equipment" to sort out which of them are "keepers" and which of them i (i e my brain) should just let go/ignore, after just a short while, "jam" up my "hard drive", and force me to go away/leave the social setting, to go to be myself to "defrag"...

:confused:

Yep!
Its just too much sensory input for my senses to deal with and I quickly reach a point of sensory overload/exhaustion and then I just want to curl up and hide.