View Full Version : ADHD medication abuse, the OTHER side of the argument


K-Funk
06-11-12, 12:50 PM
Article from Forbes I stumbled upon entitled: "The Questions about ADHD drugs the New York Times didn't ask. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/06/10/the-questions-about-adhd-drugs-the-new-york-times-didnt-ask/)" Claiming that stimulant abuse is not a new phenomenon or even on the rise, the author raises the concern that ADHD meds have the same effect on non-ADDers as those WITH the disorder. In his view the NY times piece is misleading in suggesting these medications somehow do things to those with ADHD that they don't to "healthy" individuals.

Often you hear that if stimulants like Ritalin, Vyvanse, or Adderall help people stay calm, that means that they must have ADHD. This isnít true. These drugs will help anyone focus and pay attention.


Essentially he makes the case that these aren't "safe" drugs in the hands of an ADHDer and "dangerous" drugs for someone without the condition...they are the same drug with the same effects on everyone.

The article perpetuates the idea that these drugs calm kids with ADHD down, but have a different effect on healthy people. Actually, the drugs do exactly the same thing in people whether they are hyperactive, have problems paying attention, or are healthy. They improve focus by increasing the levels of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, the front part of the brain that regulates attention and behavior. Basically, light that up and everything else gets controlled. But your heart still races.

So the author reframes the debate to essentially ask the question: Once we dispel our misconceptions about ADHD drugs, how do we then redefine who should or should not have access to these medications? Do the risks (for anyone) outweigh the benefits or are we being overly cautious across the board
when such a small dosage of a relatively safe medication could make such a huge impact in someone's life.

Thoughts? Comments? :eyebrow:

Fuzzy12
06-11-12, 02:27 PM
K Funk I haven't read the article yet but this is something I wonder about a lot.

I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD and probably won't ever be though I seem to struggle with all the usual symptoms and they are disabling my life. I really don't know if I have ADHD but sometimes I wonder if it really matters. If you've got a problem and there is a possible solution does the source of the problem really matter? On the other hand something in me feels guilty about wanting to take performance enhancing medication that might give me an unfair edge over others.

But it shouldn't be a moral issue or a question of who deserves to enhance their performance. It should be a medical issue of how people's lives can be improved without causing more harm than good.

And I wonder about what is unfair? Most people try to improve themselves in order to achieve whatever it is they want to achieve. I mean no one would blame anyone for taking omega 3 supplements or drinking coffee.

Why are stimulants different? Why are they restricted? I assume it's because of the side effects.

I think, it really boils down to a risk/benefit analysis. If the positive effects on someone's life (and subsequently society??) outweighs any risks or harmful side effects then maybe anyone should have access to ADHD medication (maybe in consultation with a psychiatrist)

Err..and apologies if I missed the point of your post and went off tangent. I really should read the articles in question before commenting on an issue. :doh:

K-Funk
06-11-12, 04:52 PM
Guess this is the original NY TImes debate referenced on the whole "should ADHD drugs be prescribed or not". Interesting!!!

Fewer Prescriptions for ADHD drugs, less drug abuse? (Fewer Prescriptions for A.D.H.D., Less Drug Abuse?)

Varying view points including this gem:

If your doctor says 'Let’s try it and see whether it helps,' find a new doctor. A.D.H.D. drugs may cause long-term brain damage, reducing motivation.



Good rebuttal arguments from the comments section:

As a successful adult with ADHD, imagine my unease at reading that the medicine I have taken for more than a decade might be causing lasting brain damage. If this is indeed the case then the NYTimes should be running a front page article about it, since I'm sure the millions of people who take and prescribe these medications would be very interested. Having done a quick review of literature on the topic however, including that cited on Dr. Sax's website, I find the evidence for this claim far from conclusive. (Most tellingly, he fails to mention a growing body of research indicating that people with ADHD have decreased activity in the parts of the brain associated with motivation, such that the deficits he attributes to long term stimulant exposure might be a natural part of the unmedicated ADHD brain.)

Retromancer
06-11-12, 05:16 PM
As a rule I am a libertarian when it comes to mind altering chemicals. However I would have reservations about minors acquiring their amphetamine in the same way that I did the caffeine pills I took while in junior high. (Ineffectively needless to say.) Doubly so when there is the prospect that taking amphetamine and methylphenidate would become standard operating procedure for anyone with concern about their grades.

hanikamiya
06-11-12, 06:11 PM
The article perpetuates the idea that these drugs calm kids with ADHD down, but have a different effect on healthy people. Actually, the drugs do exactly the same thing in people whether they are hyperactive, have problems paying attention, or are healthy. They improve focus by increasing the levels of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, the front part of the brain that regulates attention and behavior. Basically, light that up and everything else gets controlled. But your heart still races.

I don't have the time to read it myself now, just wanted to ask - did they ever mention anything like dosage?

HighFunctioning
06-11-12, 08:52 PM
I don't have the time to read it myself now, just wanted to ask - did they ever mention anything like dosage?

Not specific doses, just the adjective "low".

--

The medications certainly do not affect everyone the same way. However, one's response is not a reliable indicator of disorder. The difference between an NT positive responder and an ADHD positive responder is benefit/risk ratio. I take the medication as I find it virtually impossible to concentrate in environments that 98% of the population doesn't seem to have a big problem with. An NT may also receive a benefit, but probably not to this degree. They could stay employed or get good grades without the aid of the medication, though there's still a net benefit of some sort to using the medication.

It probably wouldn't have taken someone without a disorder 3 hours to complete this post. (Not this post exactly, as I guess it would be difficult for someone to write this post without the first hand experience to go along with it).

Ridgerunner
06-11-12, 09:43 PM
K-Funk,
Thank you for your comments, and, the link you provided, from Forbes
magazine (I was unaware of) but have been very disturbed since I read
the front page headlines of the New York Times Sunday article "Risky Rise
of the Good Grade Pill" national edition June 10, 2012.

I also would like to thank "Ed Would" comments, Forbes printed, in the
comments section, quote "I hope the press doesn't provide another politician the confidence to try and criminalize stimulants" unquote

I also would like to thank "Rachael" in her comment, quote "This piece is
quite poorly researched, and it conflates a whole lot of issues at once"

Forbes magazine's article, June 10, 2012, stated quote "the biggest
question is this: How do we as a society decide how we want these
medications to be used?

I tend to write a wall of text, as I have been quite disturbed, since, reading another article in the New York Times, in the past year, addressing
"the critical shortage of ADHD meds and the discussion of the meddling of
the FDA, the DEA, and, price gouging, and theories, of the inference of frank manipulation possibilities, to force patients, on generic stimulants, to
pay the moon for the few patented products available.

I have been a daily user of Schedule II stimulants, since June 28 1994,
but after losing about 40 years of my life, when, I needed the meds, but
was both given a misdiagnosis, or tried, the A to Z of other talking therapy, and, other, mostly non DEA controlled substances, but, had a high IQ, but failed, in marriages, and 4 colleges, and numerous jobs, and had
issues that, one calls "baggage" that, to this day, I have to deal with, that
I feel could have altered my life more positively, if I would have had access to a M.D who could have monitored my needs for stimulants, where my
symptoms, were very strong before age 7. I gained the completion, of two
college degrees, and two more professional licenses, within, 27 months, of
getting the correct DX and C-II stimulants, that began at age 44.

I am very angry now, at the "price gouging alone", and, have made comments on this forum about this stimulant shortage, I am a victim of, like many www.addforums.com (http://www.addforums.com) members.

I have by my PC a 1968 PDR, that, I count, thirty, (30) manufacturers, of,
Amphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine
HCI, (page 226) and Methamphetamine (page 242) I want to print up this
list for members to see, of manufacturers alone, but, it would only create
a long list, a wall of text, of data, that, is, 44 years old (now).

I also have in my study tonight, a 1995 PDR Generics textbook listing the
Average Wholesale price, in 1995 of stimulants on the market, the ISBN

1-56363-118-0 and, a REDBOOK, also published by PDR, Inc. "Pharmacy's
Fundamental Reference year 2009 ISBN 9-781563-637063, 113th yr of
publication.

I have mind blowing comparison's of price increases, but, again, due to
the "wall of text" it would take, will only give one or two examples, of,
a mystery to me, of what, I never dreamed would have happened in the USA (actually since 2009, like the past 18 months)!!!!
From PDR Generics page 821, Brand Dexedrine Sulfate, "the orange heart
embossed E-19's five mg tabs Average Wholesale Price, in 1995, was this
$18.75 for a bottle of 100. Richwood Pharma generic version (DextroStat)
$19.88 for a bottle of 100. (As we all know, both now removed off the USA
market. Average Unit price 19 cents each (Brand) vs. 21 cents each for the generics of Rexar Pharma, Rugby Pharma, & Richwood.

Smith Kline Beecham, (same page) 15 mg brand "Dexedrine Spansule" in a bottle of 50 count, NDC code 00007-3514-59 was $32.50 average wholesale price, average unit price 65 cents. Now, from REDBOOK 2009,
Glaxo Smith Kline, brand, Dexedrine Spansule (ER) 15mg. for one bottle
of 90 capsules, increased to $300.06 average wholesale price, thus, avg
unit price, of $3.33 per capsule. Barr Labs, generic dextroamphetamine sulfate ER, NDC code 00555-0956-02 for one bottle of 15mg caps was
$257.01. ($2.57 avg unit price each).

Finally, Adderall 10 mg BRAND, by Duramed, (another division of Barr),
IR Average Wholesale Price, $343.33 for one bottle of 100 count. The
generic Adderall, (both on page 379 of REDBOOK) for one bottle of 100
mixed amphetamine salts, 10mg. was, $137.16 AWP, or, $1.37 per tab,
average unit wholesale cost. REDBOOK, states in the foreword page, there is a traditional 20% markup, as a general rule, with some Deep Discount,
exceptions, I am not going into. Again, most all members of this fine
website, already know, that, Teva of Israel, bought out Barr & Duramed,
in late December of 2008, and, the industry, has been turned upside down,
with even more price increases, I call "gouging", due to a number of lets
say controversial issues. I conclude it is going to get worse, before it gets
better. I realize, the NY Times article, was focused on children, and, I am not going there with that topic. I will only say I am increasingly becoming
a "ex-patriot" proactive individual totally disgusted with living with what I call meddling in affairs, that, is causing, me trouble, this month, to get my RX filled. I cannot afford, to pay, geez, $500.00 to $1,000+ bucks to get a script filled, in brand names, and, my favorites, GSK/SKBeecham/SKF are no longer around. Leaving the USA, only complicates, my needs to get the stimulants that work for me, they are so limited or non-existent, in foreign countries, Source: Martindale, 36th edition, London, UK.

Retromancer
06-11-12, 10:01 PM
Sounds like you would get a better deal hanging around school yards. :D

I cannot afford, to pay, geez, $500.00 to $1,000+ bucks to get a script filled

JOHNCG
06-14-12, 06:50 AM
K-Funk,
Thank you for your comments, and, the link you provided, from Forbes
magazine (I was unaware of) but have been very disturbed since I read
the front page headlines of the New York Times Sunday article "Risky Rise
of the Good Grade Pill" national edition June 10, 2012.

I also would like to thank "Ed Would" comments, Forbes printed, in the
comments section, quote "I hope the press doesn't provide another politician the confidence to try and criminalize stimulants" unquote

I also would like to thank "Rachael" in her comment, quote "This piece is
quite poorly researched, and it conflates a whole lot of issues at once"

Forbes magazine's article, June 10, 2012, stated quote "the biggest
question is this: How do we as a society decide how we want these
medications to be used?

I tend to write a wall of text, as I have been quite disturbed, since, reading another article in the New York Times, in the past year, addressing
"the critical shortage of ADHD meds and the discussion of the meddling of
the FDA, the DEA, and, price gouging, and theories, of the inference of frank manipulation possibilities, to force patients, on generic stimulants, to
pay the moon for the few patented products available.

I have been a daily user of Schedule II stimulants, since June 28 1994,
but after losing about 40 years of my life, when, I needed the meds, but
was both given a misdiagnosis, or tried, the A to Z of other talking therapy, and, other, mostly non DEA controlled substances, but, had a high IQ, but failed, in marriages, and 4 colleges, and numerous jobs, and had
issues that, one calls "baggage" that, to this day, I have to deal with, that
I feel could have altered my life more positively, if I would have had access to a M.D who could have monitored my needs for stimulants, where my
symptoms, were very strong before age 7. I gained the completion, of two
college degrees, and two more professional licenses, within, 27 months, of
getting the correct DX and C-II stimulants, that began at age 44.

I am very angry now, at the "price gouging alone", and, have made comments on this forum about this stimulant shortage, I am a victim of, like many www.addforums.com (http://www.addforums.com) members.

I have by my PC a 1968 PDR, that, I count, thirty, (30) manufacturers, of,
Amphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine
HCI, (page 226) and Methamphetamine (page 242) I want to print up this
list for members to see, of manufacturers alone, but, it would only create
a long list, a wall of text, of data, that, is, 44 years old (now).

I also have in my study tonight, a 1995 PDR Generics textbook listing the
Average Wholesale price, in 1995 of stimulants on the market, the ISBN

1-56363-118-0 and, a REDBOOK, also published by PDR, Inc. "Pharmacy's
Fundamental Reference year 2009 ISBN 9-781563-637063, 113th yr of
publication.

I have mind blowing comparison's of price increases, but, again, due to
the "wall of text" it would take, will only give one or two examples, of,
a mystery to me, of what, I never dreamed would have happened in the USA (actually since 2009, like the past 18 months)!!!!
From PDR Generics page 821, Brand Dexedrine Sulfate, "the orange heart
embossed E-19's five mg tabs Average Wholesale Price, in 1995, was this
$18.75 for a bottle of 100. Richwood Pharma generic version (DextroStat)
$19.88 for a bottle of 100. (As we all know, both now removed off the USA
market. Average Unit price 19 cents each (Brand) vs. 21 cents each for the generics of Rexar Pharma, Rugby Pharma, & Richwood.

Smith Kline Beecham, (same page) 15 mg brand "Dexedrine Spansule" in a bottle of 50 count, NDC code 00007-3514-59 was $32.50 average wholesale price, average unit price 65 cents. Now, from REDBOOK 2009,
Glaxo Smith Kline, brand, Dexedrine Spansule (ER) 15mg. for one bottle
of 90 capsules, increased to $300.06 average wholesale price, thus, avg
unit price, of $3.33 per capsule. Barr Labs, generic dextroamphetamine sulfate ER, NDC code 00555-0956-02 for one bottle of 15mg caps was
$257.01. ($2.57 avg unit price each).

Finally, Adderall 10 mg BRAND, by Duramed, (another division of Barr),
IR Average Wholesale Price, $343.33 for one bottle of 100 count. The
generic Adderall, (both on page 379 of REDBOOK) for one bottle of 100
mixed amphetamine salts, 10mg. was, $137.16 AWP, or, $1.37 per tab,
average unit wholesale cost. REDBOOK, states in the foreword page, there is a traditional 20% markup, as a general rule, with some Deep Discount,
exceptions, I am not going into. Again, most all members of this fine
website, already know, that, Teva of Israel, bought out Barr & Duramed,
in late December of 2008, and, the industry, has been turned upside down,
with even more price increases, I call "gouging", due to a number of lets
say controversial issues. I conclude it is going to get worse, before it gets
better. I realize, the NY Times article, was focused on children, and, I am not going there with that topic. I will only say I am increasingly becoming
a "ex-patriot" proactive individual totally disgusted with living with what I call meddling in affairs, that, is causing, me trouble, this month, to get my RX filled. I cannot afford, to pay, geez, $500.00 to $1,000+ bucks to get a script filled, in brand names, and, my favorites, GSK/SKBeecham/SKF are no longer around. Leaving the USA, only complicates, my needs to get the stimulants that work for me, they are so limited or non-existent, in foreign countries, Source: Martindale, 36th edition, London, UK.

Yes, Martindale is a great reference. It's the first time I've ever hear anyone refer to it on this forum ??

JOHNCG
06-14-12, 07:08 AM
K Funk I haven't read the article yet but this is something I wonder about a lot.

I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD and probably won't ever be though I seem to struggle with all the usual symptoms and they are disabling my life. I really don't know if I have ADHD but sometimes I wonder if it really matters. If you've got a problem and there is a possible solution does the source of the problem really matter? On the other hand something in me feels guilty about wanting to take performance enhancing medication that might give me an unfair edge over others.

But it shouldn't be a moral issue or a question of who deserves to enhance their performance. It should be a medical issue of how people's lives can be improved without causing more harm than good.

And I wonder about what is unfair? Most people try to improve themselves in order to achieve whatever it is they want to achieve. I mean no one would blame anyone for taking omega 3 supplements or drinking coffee.

Why are stimulants different? Why are they restricted? I assume it's because of the side effects.

I think, it really boils down to a risk/benefit analysis. If the positive effects on someone's life (and subsequently society??) outweighs any risks or harmful side effects then maybe anyone should have access to ADHD medication (maybe in consultation with a psychiatrist)

Err..and apologies if I missed the point of your post and went off tangent. I really should read the articles in question before commenting on an issue. :doh:

Stimulants like dexamphetamine and Adderral are restricted because they have a clear potential for abuse.

People who abuse high doses stimulants like dexedrine or methylamphetamine soon go literally out of their minds. They THINK /THOUGHT that they would be strong enough to master the drug, but they never are - it's always the same old story. They fall to pieces and become a total liability.

What inevitably happens is that they start before long to acquire (psychosocial) impairments in major domains of life activity. They lose their jobs, become unemployed/unemployable and a chronic drain on the state welfare system, violent and antisocial behaviour increasingly marrs their social behaviour including interpersonal relationships/marriages, they begin to engage in criminal activities like theft and prostitution to support themselves, they spread blood-bourne diseases like AIDS and Hep -C through their communities, they get sick or malnourished and have to be put in hospital because they cannot look after themselves.

And the list goes on and on. In short they cease to be able to make any constructive contribution to society and instead become incompetent and destructive ( and very costly) influences in their communities.

To cut a long story short, impairments are a pain in the A**e (interpersonally) for OTHER NORMAL PEOPLE (not the stimulant abuser) and for the broader society. They cost governments and tax-payers a LOT of money cleaning up the phenomenal mess/destruction that the abuser unfailingly leaves behind in his/her dysfunctional wake.

That's why they are legally restricted/scheduled by the FDA.

Fraser_0762
06-14-12, 07:33 AM
Could you not argue though that the potential for abuse is more or less the same for those who take it medically?

Whats to stop somebody taking a months supply in the space of a few days? I've heard of quite a few adders that have fallen down that path of self destruction.

I don't believe that the potential for abuse is only limited to those who don't have medical prescriptions.

Retromancer
06-14-12, 08:12 AM
What you are describing @Ridgerunner is an industry that is moving out of what it considers an older market segment with exposure to serious downsides. The negative press isn't helping. The remaining producers are focused on consolidating, focusing on market share not production.

The fact is that we have been here before. The present situation is reminiscent of the aftermath of the 1971 clampdown.

I too am feeling nostalgic for the 90's -- for multiple reasons. Sadly that era is never coming back.

I have by my PC a 1968 PDR, that, I count, thirty, (30) manufacturers, of,
Amphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine Sulfate, Dextroamphetamine
HCI, (page 226) and Methamphetamine (page 242)

tudorose
06-14-12, 08:31 AM
there is only 1 manufacturer of dexamphetamine sulfate in Australia and strangely enough we don't have a shortage.

Like Frazer said though.. Addicts who get presriptions take the whole month in a couple of days and then seek more from other sources.

If you read the thread in the substance abuse section called dexamphetamine addiction it describes the situation perfectly.

What people need to do is dob these losers in but they won't because they're 'friends' so they'd rather watch them self destruct instead.

K-Funk
06-14-12, 12:16 PM
What people need to do is dob these losers in but they won't because they're 'friends' so they'd rather watch them self destruct instead.

losers huh? that's nice. I never abused my ADHD meds when I was on them but I was a hard core alcoholic for like 10 years. being in the grips of addiction is awful and if you don't get a handle on it, it WILL kill you. glad to know I was a loser...

tudorose
06-14-12, 07:30 PM
losers huh? that's nice. I never abused my ADHD meds when I was on them but I was a hard core alcoholic for like 10 years. being in the grips of addiction is awful and if you don't get a handle on it, it WILL kill you. glad to know I was a loser...

So you think someone who fakes ADHD to get a prescription for meds for the purpose of abusing them isn't a loser?

Alcohol is different. Alcohol is legal. You didn't deceive anyone to get access to alcohol. You didn't create an elaborate lie to get something you were not entitled to. You just went to the shop and bought it. Huge difference!

spunkysmum
06-14-12, 08:23 PM
K Funk I haven't read the article yet but this is something I wonder about a lot.

I haven't been diagnosed with ADHD and probably won't ever be though I seem to struggle with all the usual symptoms and they are disabling my life. I really don't know if I have ADHD but sometimes I wonder if it really matters. If you've got a problem and there is a possible solution does the source of the problem really matter? On the other hand something in me feels guilty about wanting to take performance enhancing medication that might give me an unfair edge over others.

But it shouldn't be a moral issue or a question of who deserves to enhance their performance. It should be a medical issue of how people's lives can be improved without causing more harm than good.

And I wonder about what is unfair? Most people try to improve themselves in order to achieve whatever it is they want to achieve. I mean no one would blame anyone for taking omega 3 supplements or drinking coffee.

Why are stimulants different? Why are they restricted? I assume it's because of the side effects.

I think, it really boils down to a risk/benefit analysis. If the positive effects on someone's life (and subsequently society??) outweighs any risks or harmful side effects then maybe anyone should have access to ADHD medication (maybe in consultation with a psychiatrist)

Err..and apologies if I missed the point of your post and went off tangent. I really should read the articles in question before commenting on an issue. :doh:

LOL...if I had a nickel for every time I read the article referenced in a discussion.....I'd have maybe one nickel.

ana futura
06-14-12, 08:36 PM
So you think someone who fakes ADHD to get a prescription for meds for the purpose of abusing them isn't a loser?

Alcohol is different. Alcohol is legal. You didn't deceive anyone to get access to alcohol. You didn't create an elaborate lie to get something you were not entitled to. You just went to the shop and bought it. Huge difference!


The difference between alcohol and stimulants is that alcohol is likely deadlier. The only reason alcohol is not illegal is that making it illegal is impossible. Anyone can make it, you can't successfully legislate something that anyone can make with a jar, some apple juice, and yeast.

We tried to make it illegal, and that was a huge failure (in much the same way that the current drug war is a failure...)

Legality has nothing to do with morality.

And I don't think anyone who does drugs is a "loser". They are a person who does drugs. Alchohol, nicotine, caffeine, adderall- they're all drugs. Some are more dangerous than others, and some are harder to quit than others.

tudorose
06-14-12, 08:55 PM
The difference between alcohol and stimulants is that alcohol is likely deadlier. The only reason alcohol is not illegal is that making it illegal is impossible. Anyone can make it, you can't successfully legislate something that anyone can make with a jar, some apple juice, and yeast.

We tried to make it illegal, and that was a huge failure (in much the same way that the current drug war is a failure...)

Legality has nothing to do with morality.

And I don't think anyone who does drugs is a "loser". They are a person who does drugs. Alchohol, nicotine, caffeine, adderall- they're all drugs. Some are more dangerous than others, and some are harder to quit than others.

I'm not talking about the substance. I'm talking about the behaviour.

I highly doubt that K Funk engaged in any deceitful behaviour when he got addicted to alcohol. I seriously doubt that he had the mindset of "oooh alcohol. I think I'll abuse it". He probably got addicted over a period of time and unintentionally.

There is a massive difference between that and someone who tries dex at a rave party, takes a liking to them and fakes ADHD to get a prescription with the intention of abusing them.

That case above is in my state and that is the reason why there are soooo many restrictions on us and the doctors that are trying to help up. If you don't believe me do a search for Martin Whitely.

You might not think that a normal person who abuses drugs is a loser but from the point of view of having ADHD and having a son with HFA/ ADHD and a daugher with ADHD my take is if you don't have a mental illness or a disability why give yourself one!!

tudorose
06-14-12, 08:56 PM
I am seriously stunned at the number of people who think that non-ADHD people abusing ADHD meds is ok.

Seriously?!?!?! Am is missing something here??

ana futura
06-14-12, 09:09 PM
I just don't think it's my place to tell someone what to do. Most of the violence and death that results from drug use stems from trying (and failing) to legislate drugs, not the drugs themselves. Look at Mexico.

In all honesty, I find dexedrine to be a terribly boring drug. I think a lot of people with ADHD aren't really "turned on" by their drugs the way that NT's are. But there are drugs that I like. And whether they're legal or not doesn't really concern me. If it's something I like, and it's in front of me, I'm probably going to take it.

Lucky for me, I don't really "like" many illegal drugs, and doing something like getting a fake prescription is not my style- that's way too much effort for me. But if prohibition came back tomorrow, I would be making beer on the stove right now.

Then there's the fact that my own government hands out dexies to its pilots so they can fly longer. Why is it okay for the military to use them as go-pills, but it's not okay for a stockbroker/ student/ nurse to use them? We have very conflicting standards about stimulant use.

tudorose
06-14-12, 09:53 PM
Then there's the fact that my own government hands out dexies to its pilots so they can fly longer. Why is it okay for the military to use them as go-pills, but it's not okay for a stockbroker/ student/ nurse to use them? We have very conflicting standards about stimulant use.

In a combat situation these pills could mean the difference between life and death. How on earth does that compare to a student wanting to get better grades or someone wanting to get high?

I only take this because I need to be able to function. I'm not trying to achieve anything. I'm just trying to live.

The way I see it there is a hell of a difference between someone just trying to cope with life and someone wanting to give themselves an unfair advantage or take them to have a good time.

Fortune
06-14-12, 09:58 PM
People don't always get high just because they want entertainment. Often it's a form of escapism, denial, and avoidance. Also, addiction seems to be related to more factors than things like personal volition or willpower, and people who get addicted might do so because of genetic and/or neurological predisposition.

I am hesitant to label addicts as "losers" because addiction is an illness.

Also, the assumption that alcoholics never practice deception in relation to their addiction is just about as wrong as wrong can be. It may not be necessary to lie to obtain the alcohol, but when one is abusing it, it may seem necessary to lie about all kinds of things regarding one's use of it.

ana futura
06-14-12, 10:06 PM
In a combat situation these pills could mean the difference between life and death. How on earth does that compare to a student wanting to get better grades or someone wanting to get high?

I only take this because I need to be able to function. I'm not trying to achieve anything. I'm just trying to live.

The way I see it there is a hell of a difference between someone just trying to cope with life and someone wanting to give themselves an unfair advantage or take them to have a good time.

They're used by the military to make pilots fly for longer than is safe. It's not exactly life and death, it would be best to not force pilots to fly for as long as they are required to. But there aren't enough pilots, so we give the ones we have dexies, so they can fly longer. There have been multiple cases of dexedrine induced psychosis in pilots- the drugs are no safer for them than for anyone else.

I see very little difference between that sort of use, and the stockbroker who snorts coke/ ritalin so he can trade for longer, the hospital employee who's on the 20th hour of her shift who does a bump in the bathroom to stay awake, the trucker on meth who's struggling to make enough deliveries to feed his family, or the PHD student up for the fifth night in a row preparing for her dissertation defense.

The best solution in all of these cases would be to change the conditions that create the need for drug abuse in the first place, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Many people who do coke and meth are not doing them to "get high". They're doing them to stay up all night and get stuff done. If they just wanted to "feel good" there are much better drugs out there for that.

tudorose
06-14-12, 10:12 PM
People don't always get high just because they want entertainment. Often it's a form of escapism, denial, and avoidance. Also, addiction seems to be related to more factors than things like personal volition or willpower, and people who get addicted might do so because of genetic and/or neurological predisposition.

I am hesitant to label addicts as "losers" because addiction is an illness.

I have taken my meds so I can't understand why I'm not able to express this correctly.

I'll try again.

I'm talking about specific cases where people have tried dex once, decided they like it and set out to fraudulently obtain a prescription with the sole intention of abusing it by taking excessively high doses until it's all gone.

I'm not talking about someone who has developed an addicition over time. I'm talking about those who are not addicted to it but after trying it once, decide they like it and get access to it for the sole purpose of abusing it.

To me that is a choice. A well thought out choice and a great deal of effort to execute.

Also, the assumption that alcoholics never practice deception in relation to their addiction is just about as wrong as wrong can be. It may not be necessary to lie to obtain the alcohol, but when one is abusing it, it may seem necessary to lie about all kinds of things regarding one's use of it.

Fair enough. Didn't think about it that way.

tudorose
06-14-12, 10:20 PM
They're used by the military to make pilots fly for longer than is safe. It's not exactly life and death, it would be best to not force pilots to fly for as long as they are required to. But there aren't enough pilots, so we give the ones we have dexies, so they can fly longer. There have been multiple cases of dexedrine induced psychosis in pilots- the drugs are no safer for them than for anyone else.

I see very little difference between that sort of use, and the stockbroker who snorts coke/ ritalin so he can trade for longer, the hospital employee who's on the 20th hour of her shift who does a bump in the bathroom to stay awake, the trucker on meth who's struggling to make enough deliveries to feed his family, or the PHD student up for the fifth night in a row preparing for her dissertation defense.

That's what you really think? That they're given dex coz they don't have enough pilots??

They are training for combat situations. That means simulating combat situations in every aspect.

You think it's best not to force pilots to fly longer that they have to??? This is not the local factory where the union can stipulate working conditions.

No it's not safe but they do these things to keep you safe.

How can you not see a difference between this and a student trying to pull an all-nighter is making no sense to me at all.

ana futura
06-14-12, 10:45 PM
That's what you really think? That they're given dex coz they don't have enough pilots??


Perhaps the issue is more that pilots are "too human" than that there aren't enough of them, but an ideal military would have so many planes and pilots that the nature of combat would change. 30 hour missions would become uneccessary. Hitler gave his forces meth in WWII for the same reason- if he had had enough soldiers to be truly expendable, do you think they would've bothered with drugs?

Now that we have discovered drones do a better job than humans, the days of pilots on dex are likely numbered. But while it lasted, it was a despicable, destructive practice.

To quote this article- "If you’re too tired to fly, you don’t take a pill to boost your endurance. It’s a bad idea.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/ns/us_news-only_on_msnbc_com/t/go-pills-war-drugs/

more reading-

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/01/04/MN191592.DTL&ao=all

tudorose
06-14-12, 11:18 PM
Perhaps the issue is more that pilots are "too human" than that there aren't enough of them, but an ideal military would have so many planes and pilots that the nature of combat would change. 30 hour missions would become uneccessary. Hitler gave his forces meth in WWII for the same reason- if he had had enough soldiers to be truly expendable, do you think they would've bothered with drugs?

Now that we have discovered drones do a better job than humans, the days of pilots on dex are likely numbered. But while it lasted, it was a despicable, destructive practice.

To quote this article- "If youíre too tired to fly, you donít take a pill to boost your endurance. Itís a bad idea.Ē

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/ns/us_news-only_on_msnbc_com/t/go-pills-war-drugs/

more reading-

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/01/04/MN191592.DTL&ao=all

I'm not saying I agree with this practice, however, there is a massive difference between an attempt to prevent cockpit deaths from fatigue and a student wanting to pull an all nighter to study for an exam.

Possible life and death situation vs possible better grade.

I don't want to debate the politics of war but I certainly don't think that military practices should be an excuse to handing dex out to all and sundry.

Anyway - I have some re-runs of star trek that need watching so I'm going to bow out of this conversation now.

ana futura
06-15-12, 01:14 AM
I'm not saying I agree with this practice, however, there is a massive difference between an attempt to prevent cockpit deaths from fatigue and a student wanting to pull an all nighter to study for an exam.

Possible life and death situation vs possible better grade.

I don't want to debate the politics of war but I certainly don't think that military practices should be an excuse to handing dex out to all and sundry.

Anyway - I have some re-runs of star trek that need watching so I'm going to bow out of this conversation now.

The point I'm trying to get across is that the US military does not give its pilots dex to prevent death caused by unpreventable fatigue. We give our pilots dex to squeeze more working hours out of them-


Recalling the American airborne invasion of Normandy during World War II in his 1962 book <CITE>Night Drop,</CITE> Army colonel and combat historian S.L.A. Marshall wrote: "The United States Army is indifferent toward common-sense rules by which the energy of men may be conserved in combat."
Pilots from the Air Force 183rd Fighter Wing felt the reverberations of Marshall's assessment -- which is cited on page 3 of the Navy's official guide for managing fatigue (http://www.vnh.org/PerformMaint/) -- last April. According to reports published in Canada, they misidentified a target during a bombing run over Iraq. Meeting with their commanders, they complained they were exhausted, that the "common-sense" rule of 12 hours of rest between missions was being ignored

From- http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

Our military does indeed have a "staffing problem". When soldiers are called back after extreme episodes of PTSD, and the national guard is deployed overseas, it is because we don't have enough man power to get the job done without them. Dexedrine useage is part of this equation.

In my view, it is very hypocritical of the government to hand out dex to a select number of its employees to get more work out of them, while deciding that it is unacceptable for a stockbroker to make the same decision for himself.

I'm not suggesting that amphetamines should be handed out to whomever. I'm only saying that the line between acceptable use and abuse is thinner than we think.

This is a really good article on the subject-

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/07/nation/la-na-army-medication-20120408

Drewbacca
06-15-12, 01:27 AM
I am seriously stunned at the number of people who think that non-ADHD people abusing ADHD meds is ok.

Seriously?!?!?! Am is missing something here??

I think it's a shame that multiple forms of stimulants are illegal in the US. It's a real pain in the *** just getting effective cold medicine because of the meth-heads out there. In an ideal world, I think that responsible users should have access. I figure that most of the responsible users of stimulants have some sort of condition if they feel the need to say, drink coffee all the time in order to function. I think that in the case of say, truck drivers, amphetamines should be available as they are much safer than caffeine (which affects adrenaline) so long as the dosage is reasonable and they don't use it excessively while avoiding sleep. It all comes down to whether people can be responsible or not, and I guess the laws are a clear indication of what the answer to that question is.

I have no problem with anyone using amphetamines responsibly. Frankly, I think that they should be available to college students, ADHD or not. But again, you can't control the abuse so it's not an option. I don't consider it abuse so long as they are taking a reasonable dosage in a responsible manner. It's only abuse when they take it for a high, in my opinion. The laws exist because of the abusers, not the rest of us ADHD or NT.

spunkysmum
06-15-12, 01:33 AM
Alcohol is different. Alcohol is legal. You didn't deceive anyone to get access to alcohol. You didn't create an elaborate lie to get something you were not entitled to. You just went to the shop and bought it. Huge difference!

Although, some people do. They steal the money to buy the booze and come up with elaborate lies to get away with it. And it's really, really hard sometimes not to think of THOSE people as losers, especially when you or somebody you love is the victim of the lies and thievery.

ana futura
06-15-12, 01:38 AM
Great post Drew. I would go a step further and say I don't even care if they abuse the stuff- it's their funeral. I don't really mean to sound so callous, but again I think of alcohol, and how it has the potential to be this INCREDIBLY destructive thing. Alcohol can be a life ruiner, and I have personally seen it ruin a great many lives.

Still, despite it's destructive potential, the great majority of users can be responsible with it. Used responsibly, alcohol can be a pretty wonderful thing.

tudorose
06-15-12, 02:33 AM
The point I'm trying to get across is that the US military does not give its pilots dex to prevent death caused by unpreventable fatigue. We give our pilots dex to squeeze more working hours out of them-




From- http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434

Our military does indeed have a "staffing problem". When soldiers are called back after extreme episodes of PTSD, and the national guard is deployed overseas, it is because we don't have enough man power to get the job done without them. Dexedrine useage is part of this equation.

In my view, it is very hypocritical of the government to hand out dex to a select number of its employees to get more work out of them, while deciding that it is unacceptable for a stockbroker to make the same decision for himself.

I'm not suggesting that amphetamines should be handed out to whomever. I'm only saying that the line between acceptable use and abuse is thinner than we think.

This is a really good article on the subject-

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/07/nation/la-na-army-medication-20120408

Regards the military issue:

Firstly: I don't want to breach the no politics rule so I'm not going to give an opinion on this. I'm not saying I agree and not saying I disagree.

Secondly: I'm an Aussie. The US are our allies and I would not dare say anything about how their military is run. I have my opinions about the Australian military but I also will not comment on them here because of the no politics rule.

If everyone here really thinks ADHD meds should be available to everyone regardless of whether they have ADHD then I guess I need to rethink how much time I spend here coz I don't want to be associated with that collective viewpoint.

Drewbacca
06-15-12, 05:26 PM
Great post Drew. I would go a step further and say I don't even care if they abuse the stuff- it's their funeral. I don't really mean to sound so callous, but again I think of alcohol, and how it has the potential to be this INCREDIBLY destructive thing. Alcohol can be a life ruiner, and I have personally seen it ruin a great many lives.

Still, despite it's destructive potential, the great majority of users can be responsible with it. Used responsibly, alcohol can be a pretty wonderful thing.

Well, I'm biased. I lost my college room mate, one of my best friends in this life, due to an overdose.

An additional problem with addicts, is that it often becomes a sort of ponzi scheme. They need to have customers in order to generate the money to support their own habits. Those on the bottom need help, not easier access.

ana futura
06-15-12, 05:36 PM
Well, I'm biased. I lost my college room mate, one of my best friends in this life, due to an overdose.

An additional problem with addicts, is that it often becomes a sort of ponzi scheme. They need to have customers in order to generate the money to support their own habits. Those on the bottom need help, not easier access.

I lost my ex to alcohol, but it wasn't really alcohol that killed her, it was the untreated mental illness that drove her to it. We need more realistic drug abuse education, and better resources for addicts. There is always an underlying reason for addiction. If you try to treat the addiction without first treating the underlying issue, the problem will keep coming back. It doesn't matter if something's illegal, people who want to hurt themselves with drugs will find some way to hurt themselves with drugs. The drugs aren't the problem, the lack of mental health resources is.

ana futura
06-15-12, 06:08 PM
Thoughts? Comments? :eyebrow:

I'm very interested in this idea-

It might actually be that in one way the test-takers, not the psychiatric profession, have the right idea about these medicines: maybe they do work best for short-term use (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/26/AR2009032604018.html), not as a daily pill given over a lifetime.

The research that is linked to in the article found that ADHD meds aren't effective after 24 months of use.

In my own personal experience with meds, I think it might be wiser for me to use them on a short term, as needed basis- for a few months while I'm learning new skills through therapy, and then to take them on occassion after that when it's really important for me to focus.

I don't think stimulants are a good long term solution for me. Even in very small doses, they make me feel unhealthy. However I do get exceptional short term benefit from them.

ana futura
06-15-12, 07:16 PM
If everyone here really thinks ADHD meds should be available to everyone regardless of whether they have ADHD then I guess I need to rethink how much time I spend here coz I don't want to be associated with that collective viewpoint.

The thing is, people who want drugs will get drugs. American high schools and colleges are filled with kids taking adderall illegally. What is the solution?

I'm not very worried about a kid taking 20mg of adderall to study. I'm extremely worried about that kid 2 years down the road, taking 300mg.

Rather than focus on telling people what not to do, I think it's wiser to realistically educate kids about the dangerous of drugs. Right now, drug education is "drugs=bad". Most high schoolers don't have any idea that drugs vary in potency and danger. They also think that prescription stimulants are not dangerous because they are prescription meds.

I believe that kids can handle knowing that if they choose to use drugs, there is a smart way and a stupid way to use them. They can handle knowing that marijuana will in fact not kill them, or even do anything that terrible to them. They can also handle knowing that buying black tar heroin from a street dealer is a death sentence. They need to know that there is a huge difference between taking taking 20 mgs of adderall, and 200. Most of them really have no freaking clue about drugs, and that is why they get themselves into so much trouble.

If we want people to stop abusing drugs, we have to examine why they are abusing drugs in the first place. Perhaps something is wrong with our academic model if so many kids feel the need to abuse stimulants to compete. Maybe the solution lies in developing new means of assessing academic performance.

sarahsweets
06-16-12, 03:55 AM
The thing is, people who want drugs will get drugs. American high schools and colleges are filled with kids taking adderall illegally. What is the solution?

I'm not very worried about a kid taking 20mg of adderall to study. I'm extremely worried about that kid 2 years down the road, taking 300mg.

Rather than focus on telling people what not to do, I think it's wiser to realistically educate kids about the dangerous of drugs. Right now, drug education is "drugs=bad". Most high schoolers don't have any idea that drugs vary in potency and danger. They also think that prescription stimulants are not dangerous because they are prescription meds.

I believe that kids can handle knowing that if they choose to use drugs, there is a smart way and a stupid way to use them. They can handle knowing that marijuana will in fact not kill them, or even do anything that terrible to them. They can also handle knowing that buying black tar heroin from a street dealer is a death sentence. They need to know that there is a huge difference between taking taking 20 mgs of adderall, and 200. Most of them really have no freaking clue about drugs, and that is why they get themselves into so much trouble.

If we want people to stop abusing drugs, we have to examine why they are abusing drugs in the first place. Perhaps something is wrong with our academic model if so many kids feel the need to abuse stimulants to compete. Maybe the solution lies in developing new means of assessing academic performance.

i agree. The disease of addiction can cross over from drugs to alcohol to sex, work etc. It might be better suited to find out the whys of someone abusing or using drugs illegally rather than worry about what they are abusing illegally. That said, I am not in support of making stimulants available to anyone who needs them because IMO, someone who takes say, adderall to cram and write 50 papers will have an unfair advantage over their non-doped peers and a really big advantage over the unmedicated and medicated person with adhd. Someone with adhd who takes these medicines gets to play on a level field and does not necessarily gain an advantage. Kind of like someone with eye glasses sees the same way someone with 20/20 vision. It doesnt make them see better than their non-glasses wearing peers.

tudorose
06-16-12, 04:39 AM
That said, I am not in support of making stimulants available to anyone who needs them because IMO, someone who takes say, adderall to cram and write 50 papers will have an unfair advantage over their non-doped peers and a really big advantage over the unmedicated and medicated person with adhd. Someone with adhd who takes these medicines gets to play on a level field and does not necessarily gain an advantage. Kind of like someone with eye glasses sees the same way someone with 20/20 vision. It doesnt make them see better than their non-glasses wearing peers.

Exactly!!

To say anything other than this is like saying it's ok for Contador to take EPO so he can beat Cadel.

ana futura
06-16-12, 05:30 PM
Exactly!!

To say anything other than this is like saying it's ok for Contador to take EPO so he can beat Cadel.

Two different issues are being raised here-

One is that some of us support the decriminalization of drug use, another is the debate over whether stimulants provide an unfair academic advantage, and assuming they do, how do we put a stop to it. I think all drugs should be legalized and regulated by the government, because it is the only way I see to stop the horrific violence happening in countries like Mexico. This belief shapes my view a bit in regards to the more relevant topic of stimulant abuse.

One very important thing to bring up here is that there have been studies that show that stimulant use DOES NOT IMPROVE ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE. It will permit a student to write longer, and perhaps study more effectively, but it's very much up for debate if it provides any real benefit beyond that. Stimulants do not make people smarter, and they don't make them better authors.

It is so interesting that you mentioned cycling, because I have long thought, why not just make doping legal, if every year the tour is going to be ruined by this nonsense? If Lance doped, every person he beat likely doped as well, so in the end Lance still won. Is modern EPO usage that much different from the early days of the tour, when every cyclist smoked marijuana or did cocaine to manage the pain? The early tour was filled with drugs. Eddy Merckx doped throughout his career, but that does not change the fact that he is the greatest cyclist who has ever lived.

The TDF is an impossible thing. We expect superhuman effort from its participants. Is the out of control drug use that results any surprise? It's a very difficult question- I have no problem with watching a tour with everyone on EPO, and I have no problem watching a baseball game with everyone on steroids. The problem of course, is that EPO and steroids are extremely unhealthy, and I have no desire to see athletes die because they feel they must take them to compete.

The solution lies with extremely rigorous testing. Even then, drug use will still happen. I have no doubt in my mind that Lance doped, and he is "the most tested athlete in the world". With what happened to Contador and Landis, I'm sure doping at the top will finally start to go away, but it will never disappear completely. In the end the only thing that suffers is professional cycling. It's a sport I love, and I'm sick of people trash talking it because of EPO usage. Even with doping, cycling is a wonderful sport, and the athletes who compete in it are amazing, EPO users included.

So, to bring it back to the topic at hand, what is the solution? The only way to clean up the cycling has been to rigorously test the top performers. Just because Cadel doesn't dope doesn't mean his domestiques aren't doping- which would still give him a great advantage. But testing at the top level does send a strong message. Assuming that stimulants really do provide an unfair advantage, perhaps Ivy league universities then should start testing their top applicants? I can only imagine what a furor something like that would create, it's not really a practical solution. But it would work.

Clamping down on ADHD diagnoses might mean that some people who legitimately need treatment will go undiagnosed.

This issue is nothing new, stimulant use has been in academia for a very long time. Honestly I see no problem with a PHD student using adderall to get them through their dissertation. Graduate students have been openly using stimulants for decades. At the high school and undergrad level, I feel very differently about it. I think that the rampant usage of adderall by teenagers is a huge problem, and really needs to be stopped.

tudorose
06-17-12, 05:40 AM
@ana you've made so many arguments in the last post. Some I agree with, some I disagree with. But I don't have it in me to respond so I'm gonna bow out of this one and say lets agree to disagree.

ana futura
06-17-12, 12:27 PM
@ana you've made so many arguments in the last post. Some I agree with, some I disagree with. But I don't have it in me to respond so I'm gonna bow out of this one and say lets agree to disagree.

I think we agree on your main concern- I don't want high school kids or undergraduates to have access to amphetamines, or for cyclists to take EPO. But wanting people to not do things, and actually getting them to stop doing those things are two different discussions.

If you have the time I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on doping in cycling, because I think it's a great parallel for academic amphetamine use.

SwampFox56
06-19-12, 09:42 PM
Hello, My name is Zeke, I am 16, and I was prescribed Adderall XR almost 2 months ago. I figured that since both of you have different opinions about the use of amphetamines, my opinion might be valuable to both sides since I am in high school, I do take it on a weekly basis (I try not to take it during the weekends), and I don't abuse it.

Many kids at my school call Adderall "addie" so I might refer to it as that through out this post (probably not, but that's just what most high school student call it). I was originally prescribed 10MG XR's, my doctor then bumped it up to 20MG's, and we decided to let it sit at 30MG's.

Well before I was prescribed Adderall, I had no motivation to do anything in life. I was in a horrible depression, and I could barley get myself out of bed in the morning. This got so bad that for the past two years I have missed SOO much school that I have only gotten a fraction of the credits that I should have by now. The majority of people just thought I was being lazy, and that I could get out of bed if I had really tried. That isn't even remotely true, and it took me a long to convince people that I wasn't just being lazy. I knew that I would never graduate from school if I didn't get my credits. I knew that I would be a loser if I didn't get any schooling. Every night before I went to bed I would say to myself "Tomorrow I'm going to do it. Tomorrow I am GOING to get up for school in the morning." but no matter how much I tried to convince myself to get up, I just couldn't. Something was holding me back mentally. The things I used to like to do no longer interested me. I used to love music, I no longer cared for any of it. Everything little thing that anyone did made me extremely angry to the point where I might even get violent, and the only happiness that I really got out of life was playing video games.

I went to a therapist and he diagnosed me with clinical depression, and two different types of anxiety. I DID NOT want to take any medication. I tried desperately to find natural ways of trying to treat depression, and anxiety. I tried many different things, but since I had no motivation to do anything I couldn't stick with them. After around a month of trying to find other ways to cure my unhappiness, I reluctantly decided to try medication. He prescribed me Zoloft for depression and anxiety, and Trazodone as a sleeping aid since I would always stay awake worrying about things.

Those drugs really didn't do much. The Zoloft did eliminate my feelings of sadness, and some anxiety, but I still had no motivation to do anything. And the Trazodone did make me fall asleep almost instantly, but it leaves you feeling very groggy in the morning, and feels not unlike a blow to the head.

Also let me put something into perspective for you. My lack of motivation was to do anything was SO bad that. It would literally take me a couple hours of motivating myself to do something as simple as taking out the trash. And most of the time the only reason I did it anyways was because would stand over me and make me do it. My lack of motivation has also stopped me from doing good in school. It stops me from getting up in the morning. I was very close to earning my Eagle Scout, and my lack of motivation has made it so I am no longer able to do any of my Boy Scout work.

Well after a while I told my therapist that even though the Zoloft helped with my depression and anxiety. Those were obviously not the cause of my lack of motivation.

He decided that we needed to add another drug on top of my existing one. He said that he was going to put me on Adderall even though I hadn't been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. But he told me and my parents that he could justify doing it without testing me for ADD or ADHD because of my lack of ability to get up in the morning, and the fact that I am always tired. And he also said that from what I described he thought I had a very severe forum of ADD.

Now let me explain something else. My parents are VERY anti-drug people. They thing that any drug, no matter what its use is, is unnecessary, and if take any sort of medication for more than a very short time that it will mess with your brain chemistry and turn you into a zombie. I like to thing of my parents as smart people, but they are very uneducated when it comes to drugs (in my opinion) In fact, they are so anti-drug that they won't even let me or my younger sister take Aspirin! If they ever give us any medicine at all, they give us a toddler's amount of Tylenol! They act like every medicine contains a large amount of oxycoden inside of it.

Anyways my point of telling you this was; its not like my parents rushed into taking the prescription. They had serious reservations about giving it to me. And my therapist actually had to meet with them privately to discuss how it could benefit me. And especially with a drug that can potentially be very addicting, and have very negative effects on the body. It really took alot of time convincing them that it could help me.

And, to be honest, I really didn't want to take it either. I don't really like taking medication either. But I really didn't see any other drug that MIGHT help my motivation and my ability to wake up.

Adderall has exceeded all expectation that I could have ever had for any drug. Adderall has made me 1000 times more motivated, I can actually DO things again! It's still hard for me to get up in the morning, but I am able to wake up just long enough to take my Adderall in the morning, I fall back asleep for around 30 min, and then I wake up, I do not feel tired, I don't feel hopeless in the morning, and I actually WANT to go to summer school.

Since I wasn't unable to get up at all last year or this year, I failed a lot of my classes. And I am way behind in my credits. While I have been taking Adderall. I love getting my work done. Its actually makes getting things done fun!

Throughout my whole school career I have never done well in school. I am now extremely ahead of schedule in my summer school classes, and it looks like I will be able to earn twice the amount of credits I thought I was going to this summer! You have no idea how that feels.

Anti-drug activists, and fanatics (like my parents) will argue that these drugs do nothing good for you. Well if it wasn't for my Adderall prescription.......well I don't want to think about that.