View Full Version : Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and ADHD


LeoJ
07-13-12, 06:53 PM
ADHD often comes with another symptom like GAD, OCD, and others. Anyone has ADHD with NPD?

mildadhd
07-13-12, 08:10 PM
ADHD often comes with another symptom like GAD, OCD, and others. Anyone has ADHD with NPD?

On first thought anyway.

I think ADHD is actually the opposite of a narcissistic definition.

I am not very familiar with the definition of narcissism.

But I think narcissism is not what it appears to be.

In my own experience anyway.


The physical human body is always trying to reach homeostasis.

The emotional human body is always trying to reach homeostasis.

Both through positive and negative feedback.

Warmer and Cooler are not always measurable in good or bad categories.

In attempts to reach homeostasis.





The ratio of "energy" involved by positive and negative feedbacks are not constant.

Some reasons are different physiological experience responses.


Everyone is different.

The different combinations of specific commorbidities are endless.

Depression, anxiety, addictions would be the most common comorbidities.

I am not a professional but the word narcissism makes me uncomfortable.

I don't really know why?

DeathMetal2000
07-13-12, 11:09 PM
No in fact, there's some similarities with ADHD and NPD.

Etcetera
07-14-12, 05:16 AM
I believe that undiagnosed ADHD may result in a personality disorder similar to that of NPD. I find it reasonable to believe that someone with ADHD without the diagnosis, may find it hard to be understood, both as a child, teenager or as a young adult.

See it like this... As a child, if I said that I had tried to study for school or did do my assignments but left them at home, many would not believe me. According to most, I was lazy and apparently also unwilling to do what society (teachers, parents) wanted me to do. This did fill me with anger and I feel that it is not unlikely that these feelings of never being believed could result in something that resembled NPD. (Notice how I say "similar or resembling to NPD", but not NPD itself?)

Mind you, a lot of people with NPD actually have a very low self-esteem, and the NPD is a way of coping.

(Taken from Wikipedia)

DSM-IV-TR 301.81
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
It is also a requirement of DSM-IV that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.

As always, under the DSM-IV, it is likely that when a person has -a- personality disorder, he will show signs and symptoms similar to that of a few other personality disorders. Heck, it's even likely that every human being will fit at least one or more descriptions of personality disorders under the DSM-IV. It's all about severity and whether or not it causes actual problems. (You know, like being distracted and ADHD... Everyone gets distracted sometimes...)

mildadhd
07-14-12, 11:10 AM
I think a low self esteem is the way I understand narcissistic.

I could be totally wrong,

but I always see arrogant people as having a low self esteem?

I see people with ADHD at ADDF a little different,

more like practice with peers,

underdeveloped skills that don't necessarily get to be practiced in real life.

Because of a low self esteem.

I also wonder if using the internet and not being face to face gives a different impression.


Might be partly caused by my lack of experience in communication through the internet.

I still don't really understand Narcissistic Personality?

Its all coping mechanism of some sort based on personal experiences.

What are some specific example without naming names?


Also I had a really neat conversation with someone who works in health care.

About the idea that some ODD could actually be the right way to respond in some circumstances?

I thought the idea interesting.

I believe in respecting elders but are they always right,

kind of thinking?

Electra2
01-14-13, 03:53 AM
Listen to this at 06:48

"In general abusers are very inpatient,
easily bored with strong attention deficits...
unless, and until; they become the topic of discussion".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFUuaw8Pf1M

Fortune
01-14-13, 04:48 AM
Listen to this at 06:48

"In general abusers are very inpatient,
easily bored with strong attention deficits...
unless, and until; they become the topic of discussion".


That's probably true.

It's fair to point out that Sam Vaknin is a psychopath with a curious obsession about redefining how people view NPD. I am not sure what his reasons are, but everything he says should be treated with caution and a heavy dose of salt. Also, he got his doctorate from an unaccredited diploma mill. He has no legitimate credentials.

As far as ADHD goes, cluster B personality disorders are a bit more common with ADHDers than with the general population.

Electra2
01-14-13, 06:38 AM
That's probably true.

It's fair to point out that Sam Vaknin is a psychopath with a curious obsession about redefining how people view NPD. I am not sure what his reasons are, but everything he says should be treated with caution and a heavy dose of salt. Also, he got his doctorate from an unaccredited diploma mill. He has no legitimate credentials.

As far as ADHD goes, cluster B personality disorders are a bit more common with ADHDers than with the general population.
He admits to have been diagnosed Borderline PD.
I don't know how correct it is but he has some very good points that I hold to be true,
then again,I don't have any degree or education on this at all, so what do I know in that matter :rolleyes:

Fortune
01-14-13, 08:10 AM
He admits to have been diagnosed Borderline PD.
I don't know how correct it is but he has some very good points that I hold to be true,
then again,I don't have any degree or education on this at all, so what do I know in that matter :rolleyes:

Yeah, I do not know if he was ever actually diagnosed with BPD. He has been diagnosed as a psychopath, and he has a tendency to prevaricate extensively about himself.

This is Sam Vaknin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKvhKI6Kxew

Some information about him:

http://enpsychopedia.org/index.php/Sam_Vaknin

Also, my comment about Vaknin's degree has nothing to do with saying that one needs a degree to talk about such things. It was more to point out that he claims a doctorate that he does not actually have.

tudorose
01-14-13, 08:20 AM
Some behaviours may be the same but the difference is in the intent.

We don't upset people on purpose. NPD people do.

We are socially inept. They simply do not care.

We struggle to understand how to behave. They play games.

sarek
01-14-13, 10:23 AM
I think Tudorose nailed it. The difference between any personality disorder and whatever neurological disorder that may mimic some of that PDs symptoms, is always intent.

When I don't seem to care its because my attention was involuntarily elsewhere, not because I deliberately choose not to care.

MikhailTal
01-17-13, 09:02 PM
I'm diagnosed with ADHD-PI, and I struggle with severe narcissistic tendencies everyday. I struggle with it, because first of all, I'm very aware of it and the vulgarity of being self-absorbed. Yes, I'm preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. And I know it's all so pointless. Being aware of this all, however, doesn't change anything.

Second of all, I struggle with it because being very narcissistic results in intense moodswings when I fail at something, when my self-image of perfection and power is crushed by reality. Being narcissistic is my subconscious way of coping with profound feelings of insecurity and inferiority. I suppose I don't have NPD, because I don't use or hurt other people for my own good, and I'm able to be compassionate, although very seldom.

My ability for compassion is severely damaged by my narcissistic tendencies. That's why I feel alone, why I have trouble connecting with other people. All my life it was me, me, me. At this moment, I don't believe I will be able to connect with people on a sincere basis. I can feel their pain, I could never hurt them, but to show a true interest in them (ADHD-PI doesn't really help in this area) proves to be nearly impossible.

I said that being of aware of it doesn't change anything, however, that's not entirely true in my opinion. I think self-awareness is the only possible remedy for NPD, however, it's not a miracle cure.

Electra2
01-17-13, 11:42 PM
I'm diagnosed with ADHD-PI, and I struggle with severe narcissistic tendencies everyday. I struggle with it, because first of all, I'm very aware of it and the vulgarity of being self-absorbed. Yes, I'm preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. And I know it's all so pointless. Being aware of this all, however, doesn't change anything.

Second of all, I struggle with it because being very narcissistic results in intense moodswings when I fail at something, when my self-image of perfection and power is crushed by reality. Being narcissistic is my subconscious way of coping with profound feelings of insecurity and inferiority. I suppose I don't have NPD, because I don't use or hurt other people for my own good, and I'm able to be compassionate, although very seldom.

My ability for compassion is severely damaged by my narcissistic tendencies. That's why I feel alone, why I have trouble connecting with other people. All my life it was me, me, me. At this moment, I don't believe I will be able to connect with people on a sincere basis. I can feel their pain, I could never hurt them, but to show a true interest in them (ADHD-PI doesn't really help in this area) proves to be nearly impossible.

I said that being of aware of it doesn't change anything, however, that's not entirely true in my opinion. I think self-awareness is the only possible remedy for NPD, however, it's not a miracle cure.
:grouphug:
It was kind of you to share this.
I think some people with ADD can get a low self image at times,
and they try to compensate for it in one way or another.
Are there people who you are close to,who you can empathize better with,
when they are hurt,or do you feel sorry for them then,at times?
Maybe you shield your self because its too much?
It can be hard to show sympathy with people because it takes a lot of attention
to focus enough to get all the details,
partly because of ADD'ish emotional oversensitivity,
and keep focus long enough to put what you feel out in words,
in an sensored analyzed version; without hurting comments,IMO.
it doesnt meen that there is no care...
but the care that's there is somewhat difficult to share?
I don't know,I'm tired :)

SodaCrates
02-12-13, 01:13 AM
Here's my problem with what you wrote MikhailTal, I have never convinced a narcissist (and by that I mean someone with strong narcissistic traits not someone with NPD) that they are a narcissist. Boderline and Bipolar both eventually want treatment, but almost never with NPD. I'm not saying they don't want treatment, just not for being narcissists. However, people with mild ASD or Autistic Spectrum Disorder have every trait you mentioned. I can't tell you how many people with autism right on the internet about not being able to connect to people. I've read plenty of forum posts of people who think they have ASPD, or NPD, but it's really Autism (or Aspergers).

But back to NPD, I always used to ask my dad "is that NPD" at some movie we saw or someone we knew, and he always told me, "you know NPD when you see it; I can't give you a better description". In the end he was of course right. From everything I've seen NPD is one step below schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder in terms of how it hurts functionality. I'm sure shrinks define everyone with any Narcissistic traits to be NPD, but there are people with a far worse condition.

(I should also mention that Bipolar disorder has a lot of the traits you are mentioning. Megalomaniacal manic stage followed by an introverted depressive phrase, but this doesn't seem likely to me.)

Spartan_Worrier
10-03-13, 06:33 PM
I'm diagnosed with ADHD-PI, and I struggle with severe narcissistic tendencies everyday. I struggle with it, because first of all, I'm very aware of it and the vulgarity of being self-absorbed. Yes, I'm preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. And I know it's all so pointless. Being aware of this all, however, doesn't change anything.

Second of all, I struggle with it because being very narcissistic results in intense moodswings when I fail at something, when my self-image of perfection and power is crushed by reality. Being narcissistic is my subconscious way of coping with profound feelings of insecurity and inferiority. I suppose I don't have NPD, because I don't use or hurt other people for my own good, and I'm able to be compassionate, although very seldom.

My ability for compassion is severely damaged by my narcissistic tendencies. That's why I feel alone, why I have trouble connecting with other people. All my life it was me, me, me. At this moment, I don't believe I will be able to connect with people on a sincere basis. I can feel their pain, I could never hurt them, but to show a true interest in them (ADHD-PI doesn't really help in this area) proves to be nearly impossible.

I said that being of aware of it doesn't change anything, however, that's not entirely true in my opinion. I think self-awareness is the only possible remedy for NPD, however, it's not a miracle cure.

If you were narcissistic you wouldn't be admitting to having faults. In a narcissists eyes they are perfect. Any failings affecting them are the fault of someone or something else.

I think concerning yourself and wanting success, admiration, ideal love etc etc is natural for most humans. What human doesn't want those things? Also, it is hard not to be all about "me, me, me" if you are constantly battling adhd symptoms, anxiety symptoms, depression etc etc.