View Full Version : Various Questions regarding Desoxyn...???


dshel34
07-15-12, 05:00 AM
I have several questions regarding Desoxyn. Some of these are in response to Desoxyn ultimately being the same compound that is abused in the so-called "Meth Epidemic" of America, but I DO want to ensure that my questions are legitimate towards my treatment (and possibly out of curiosity/concern before bringing up this medication with my doctor), as I have been treated for approximately 5-6 years for Adult ADD (treated with the majority of the stimulants, both amphetamine-based and not, finding the most success with my current Rx, Adderall, but I do have issues with it which I thought I just had to deal with as part of my treatment until finding this website and its forums), as well diagnoses and treatments with other comorbid psychological disorders (e.g. Social Anxiety, General Anxiety, etc.). I wanted to stress that first, so as not to even risk giving any false impression of anything such as fact-gathering for illegitimate use. I am more than sure that any of that type of information can be found elsewhere on the internet, and that type of information is none of my concern. I have also done some limited searching through other threads for the information to my questions, but it seemed the more searching that I did, the more questions and concerns that I had (maybe it is just my nature as a result of anxiety disorders). My first two (2) questions, in particular, I guess arise most out of my fear of medications, and are results of my ignorance to the medication (as most of these questions are, as I did not even know about this medication until it was mentioned in my collegiate pharmacology class, and as stated, I thought I just had to deal with my negative side effects of Adderall, sucking them up as a result of the benefits I do receive in my life from Adderall) Now, with having that said:

1. I understand that doctors are much more informed than the media-hyped public, and if a patient is established and has an on-going trust with their prescribing physician than diversion/abuse should not be a problem, but as a result of the media-hyped "meth epidemic" of America, just how common is the prescribing of Desoxyn for ADD/ADHD? I guess this could be: versus other medications for the same Tx?; is it usually prescribed in a more "last resort"-type of Tx, only after going through all of the other cycles of legend-Tx's?; etc. (however you may interpret the question or may deem helpful)?

2. Once again (and this is similar to the first question), the physician will typically not play into the hysteria that the Average Joe would, and the physician would know the difference between "Ice/crank/illict meth" and Desoxyn/Methylamphetamine, but are there still many physicians/psychiatrists who are more hesitant to prescribe this medication, or even will not, under any circumstances do so? Especially as I am in Kentucky, and here in Kentucky there is nearly an all out "War on Pharmaceuticals", as those who do abuse and divert medications have unfortunately A) Made the overall system much more difficult for those who would use it legitimately; B) Made it more difficult for legitimate patients to receive the proper level of treatment that they may need, with some unable to receive treatment at all; and C) Made many physicians too fearful to treat patients at the level they should be treated, to treat the number of patients that come to them, or to treat patients at all, all out of fear of being prosecuted (which some legitimate physicians have been, unfortunately) or being sued... albeit that this "war on pharms" in Kentucky is most common against the wide-spread abuse of opioids and benzodiazepines, but still upon moving when I've transferred colleges, even with a legitimate and documented diagnoses and treatment/prescription history, I've had trouble with some physicians through no fault of my own, and I suspect that this is the cause. The doctor I am currently seeing, as I am away for college, tends to be skeptical of everything/everyone--and it is not just me, others have made this observation-- just as doctors should be to a degree, especially here in Kentucky, but not necessarily to the degree in which this doctor is, in which he comes off almost as if he considers everything said to be a lie... he lacks bedside manner and trust, despite having a clean KASPER history, legitimate documentation, and having never given him a reason not to trust me.

3. How does Desoxyn, put blatantly, tend to make you feel at a legitimate, therapeutic dose? I am currently at a dosage of typically 45 mg daily of Adderall IR, Rx'd @ 30 mg tab in the morning & half tab in the early afternoon. But I often break the first tab into two smaller doses, taking the 2nd half of the first dose in the middle of the two main doses. This is to cut back on some of the negative side effects, such as some minor (e.g. excessive sweating, sweaty palms, muscle cramps, irritating my chronic back pain even further, some anxiety, loss of sociability--which is ironic because at first I was socially withdrawn yet felt like I could be more social had I wanted to although this was not the case--, some lack of appetite though not nearly as bad as when I began on the meds) to some of the stronger psychological S/E's (e.g. feeling of becoming some extremely focused/zero'd-in, zombified, unexplanably energized-sedation, and the zeroing-in focus on things to such a degree that I become distracted from my intended task and become zero'd-in/focused onto something else without noticing it).

4. Does Desoxyn tend to make you feel euphoric in any way (euphoria would be a concern to me as I don't want anything that will make me feel especially good)? Does it act as an anxiolytic or cause any sort of loss of inhibitions (loss of inhibitions would be another concern, as it would be with any medication)? Does it cause increased sociability or decreased sociability at all? Does it make you feel
zombified? Does it make you feel either Sedated or Too Energized? For those of you with ADD, does it tend to help you focus, simply allow you to focus, force to you focus, or put you in such a state of focus where it is almost too focused and zero'd in?

5. I guess this arises from the fear that has been instilled as a result of the media-hyped "meth epidemic", but for those of you who have been prescribed to this medication for any length of time, have you found it to be Addictive/Habit-Forming? Have any of you found there to be any Withdrawals after abruptly ceasing its use, whether it be ending your treatment or simply not taking it? Does it require being weaned off of?


NOTE: This next question results from curiosity/ignorance of the drug Desoxyn and its comparatability with its illicit counter-part, fear of the media-hyped substance that has ruined many lives bearing the same name as this medication and the fear of my life being ruined as a result of trying to receive a medication's benefits. While I would NEVER use the illicit substance, any other illicit substance, nor abuse it's legitimate counter-part, and am not in any way seeking information for the purpose of doing so, the fear of a medication being "the end of me" leads me to the following curiosity (as a result of my Gen.Anxiety.Disorder, I tend to irrationally fear that everything is going to be the end of me. ha.):

6. Would relatively "pure street methamphetamine" (if a street drug could even be considered or deemed "pure" at all), taken at a therapeutic dosage-level (if dosing could even be reliable), via an oral ROA, by someone who has a legit. positive Dx of ADD/ADHD, yield the same or relatively similar pharmacodynamics and psychological results as would be seen by administration of Desoxyn? (I asked the professor of my collegiate pharmacology class this question after she told us of this medication, and she stated that she did not know)

relax21
07-16-12, 05:46 PM
Hello dshel34,

I'll try to answer some of your questions to the best of my knowledge.

1. Desoxyn (methamphetamine HCl) is rarely prescribed for its intended treatment of ADHD in children 6 years old or older, and obesity. It's considered a last resort drug due to it's abuse potential, but it's highly unlikely for children with ADHD who take methamphetamine to abuse it. The "meth-epidemic" fueled by the media started in the 1960's when Methedrine ampoules (methamphetamine HCl; injectable form) were being abused at an alarming rate. Tablet forms of Methedrine and Desoxyn were of concern for their abuse potential, but nowhere near the concern for the abuse and addiction potential of pharmaceutical injectable methamphetamine HCl.

Methamphetamine HCl (tablet form) was popularly used during World War II to help German and Japanese soldiers ward off fatigue and boost confidence. The Nazi party deemed Methamphetamine HCl discovered that methamphetamine was a highly addictive drug when abused by soldiers half-way through the war, so they set higher restrictions on accessing the drug. After World War II the Japanese military had millions of methamphetamine tablets in storage that was produced for the war effort, but the government decided to grant the public access to their methamphetamine tablets, and soon there after Japan experienced a methamphetamine epidemic as addiction rates soared. Within the decade after WWII, Japan made methamphetamine illegal.

During the 1970's in the United States, the government began implementing harsher regulations for drugs, especially pharmaceutical methamphetamine and amphetamine. Methamphetamine was frowned upon by the medical community as it was mainly used to treat obesity, but due to addiction and abuse, the pharmaceutical industry focused their sights on newer less addicting stimulant (amphetamine-like) drugs to treat obesity. It was about this time crystal methamphetamine labs started popping up to produce meth for the surging demand for Methedrine, Desoxyn, etc. because the government now strictly regulated how many methamphetamine tablets were produced, and banned methamphetamine ampoules.

Since to the rebranding of Obetrol (obesity amphetamine salt combo) into Adderall (ADHD amphetamine salt combo), in 1997, amphetamine sales have been given new life in the United States. As more and more children and adults are diagnosed every year with ADHD, the demand for amphetamine and methamphetamine has increased dramatically, pushing the limits set by the government (DEA) originally enforced in the early 1970's to control how much amphetamine and methamphetamine is produced to keep amphetamine abuse and addiction under control, which has caused the current amphetamine shortages which many of us are experiencing.

3. At a therapeutic dose of methamphetamine I feel calm, focused, social, and oddly almost normal (or what I perceive normal to be). Side effects tend to be lesser than those of amphetamines or d-amphetamine for the most part. Typical side effects I experience are increased body temperature, faster heart beat, mild anxiety, mild apathy, dysphoria, dry mouth, dry eyes, fatigue, loss of appetite, insomnia, etc. When the drug is stabilized at a consistent dose I find the side effects become more tolerable, and the drug is smooth and subtle.

4. There is sometimes euphoria as with any stimulant, but the drug is very dose dependent at oral doses, and 5 mg - 25 mg daily tends to hold the best results, as side effects are exacerbated at higher doses. It has more anxiolytic effects than other stimulants, and Desoxyn tends to have less the "motivational-drive" more commonly found in drugs like Adderall or Dexedrine. Because of this effect on reducing anxiety, Desoxyn tends to make me more social and open to others rather than productive and to myself.

5. I think it's easier to become dependent to Desoxyn than other stimulants because it has less side effects and is more subtle. I've never experienced a withdrawal and for me it's not as hard to come off Desoxyn as it is for Dexedrine in my opinion. I don't feel like I need to take Desoxyn, I just take it to have it stabilized in my system because it controls my symptoms more than any other medication I've tried. I think that if someone has an addictive personality they should stay far away from methamphetamine because they may have more urges to abuse it.

I've never abused methamphetamine (desoxyn), as there is no appeal to abuse it, never crosses my mind. I've never had to increase my dose, as I've never experienced tolerance from taking it on a daily basis. Once and awhile I have to take a drug holiday because of reverse tolerance (drug gets stronger with continued use) but that's about it. Keep in mind methamphetamine is intended and approved by the FDA to treat ADHD in children no younger than 6 years old.

6. Yes. If the Meth on the street was produced to be as pure as Desoxyn then it would be equivalent to Desoxyn in generic a form. And would be equally affective for treating ADHD, if dosed at therapeutic levels.

Hope this helps answer your questions. I tried to be as thorough as possible, but if you have any specific questions I missed or was too vague about let me know.

Bottom line: Methamphetamine is a safe and stable drug when used therapeutically to treat ADHD. Crystal Meth (street form) and Methamphetamine/Desoxyn (pharmaceutical form) are not comparable because they are used for different reasons; Medicinal vs. Recreational. Dependency is a concern while using any stimulant for long periods of time, which is why drug holidays are recommended to better evaluate symptoms of ADHD while off the drug among other reasons. Addiction is only a concern for those who purposely abuse stimulants, or frequently increase their dose.

- relax21

tambourine-man
07-31-12, 10:04 PM
Hello dshel34,

I'll try to answer some of your questions to the best of my knowledge.

1. Desoxyn (methamphetamine HCl) is rarely prescribed for its intended treatment of ADHD in children 6 years old or older, and obesity. It's considered a last resort drug due to it's abuse potential, but it's highly unlikely for children with ADHD who take methamphetamine to abuse it. The "meth-epidemic" fueled by the media started in the 1960's when Methedrine ampoules (methamphetamine HCl; injectable form) were being abused at an alarming rate. Tablet forms of Methedrine and Desoxyn were of concern for their abuse potential, but nowhere near the concern for the abuse and addiction potential of pharmaceutical injectable methamphetamine HCl.

Methamphetamine HCl (tablet form) was popularly used during World War II to help German and Japanese soldiers ward off fatigue and boost confidence. The Nazi party deemed Methamphetamine HCl discovered that methamphetamine was a highly addictive drug when abused by soldiers half-way through the war, so they set higher restrictions on accessing the drug. After World War II the Japanese military had millions of methamphetamine tablets in storage that was produced for the war effort, but the government decided to grant the public access to their methamphetamine tablets, and soon there after Japan experienced a methamphetamine epidemic as addiction rates soared. Within the decade after WWII, Japan made methamphetamine illegal.

During the 1970's in the United States, the government began implementing harsher regulations for drugs, especially pharmaceutical methamphetamine and amphetamine. Methamphetamine was frowned upon by the medical community as it was mainly used to treat obesity, but due to addiction and abuse, the pharmaceutical industry focused their sights on newer less addicting stimulant (amphetamine-like) drugs to treat obesity. It was about this time crystal methamphetamine labs started popping up to produce meth for the surging demand for Methedrine, Desoxyn, etc. because the government now strictly regulated how many methamphetamine tablets were produced, and banned methamphetamine ampoules.

Since to the rebranding of Obetrol (obesity amphetamine salt combo) into Adderall (ADHD amphetamine salt combo), in 1997, amphetamine sales have been given new life in the United States. As more and more children and adults are diagnosed every year with ADHD, the demand for amphetamine and methamphetamine has increased dramatically, pushing the limits set by the government (DEA) originally enforced in the early 1970's to control how much amphetamine and methamphetamine is produced to keep amphetamine abuse and addiction under control, which has caused the current amphetamine shortages which many of us are experiencing.

3. At a therapeutic dose of methamphetamine I feel calm, focused, social, and oddly almost normal (or what I perceive normal to be). Side effects tend to be lesser than those of amphetamines or d-amphetamine for the most part. Typical side effects I experience are increased body temperature, faster heart beat, mild anxiety, mild apathy, dysphoria, dry mouth, dry eyes, fatigue, loss of appetite, insomnia, etc. When the drug is stabilized at a consistent dose I find the side effects become more tolerable, and the drug is smooth and subtle.

4. There is sometimes euphoria as with any stimulant, but the drug is very dose dependent at oral doses, and 5 mg - 25 mg daily tends to hold the best results, as side effects are exacerbated at higher doses. It has more anxiolytic effects than other stimulants, and Desoxyn tends to have less the "motivational-drive" more commonly found in drugs like Adderall or Dexedrine. Because of this effect on reducing anxiety, Desoxyn tends to make me more social and open to others rather than productive and to myself.

5. I think it's easier to become dependent to Desoxyn than other stimulants because it has less side effects and is more subtle. I've never experienced a withdrawal and for me it's not as hard to come off Desoxyn as it is for Dexedrine in my opinion. I don't feel like I need to take Desoxyn, I just take it to have it stabilized in my system because it controls my symptoms more than any other medication I've tried. I think that if someone has an addictive personality they should stay far away from methamphetamine because they may have more urges to abuse it.

I've never abused methamphetamine (desoxyn), as there is no appeal to abuse it, never crosses my mind. I've never had to increase my dose, as I've never experienced tolerance from taking it on a daily basis. Once and awhile I have to take a drug holiday because of reverse tolerance (drug gets stronger with continued use) but that's about it. Keep in mind methamphetamine is intended and approved by the FDA to treat ADHD in children no younger than 6 years old.

6. Yes. If the Meth on the street was produced to be as pure as Desoxyn then it would be equivalent to Desoxyn in generic a form. And would be equally affective for treating ADHD, if dosed at therapeutic levels.

Hope this helps answer your questions. I tried to be as thorough as possible, but if you have any specific questions I missed or was too vague about let me know.

Bottom line: Methamphetamine is a safe and stable drug when used therapeutically to treat ADHD. Crystal Meth (street form) and Methamphetamine/Desoxyn (pharmaceutical form) are not comparable because they are used for different reasons; Medicinal vs. Recreational. Dependency is a concern while using any stimulant for long periods of time, which is why drug holidays are recommended to better evaluate symptoms of ADHD while off the drug among other reasons. Addiction is only a concern for those who purposely abuse stimulants, or frequently increase their dose.

- relax21


I am frequently private messaged with questions about Desoxyn. Yes, I was prescribed Desoxyn BUT relax21 here is certainly the expert. You got this bud! Nailed it!

chris44
08-19-12, 11:04 PM
1. According to the DEA 2011 estimate there were approximately 15,000 prescriptions in total in 2011, which includes patients who were not treated with it throughout the entire year (such as being on it for only 6 weeks). It is so rarely prescribed that many doctors and psychiatrists do not even know it can be prescribed; my own psychiatrist who has been in the business for 20 years had been unaware of its existence as a medication until I mentioned it. As such, lack of experience prescribing it alone can cause a doctor or psychiatrist unwilling to prescribe it.

2. The stigma caused by the illicit meth use epidemic is frequently reported to be shared by what I would call a majority of family doctors, and, to a lesser degree, psychiatrists. However, having long relationship with your doctor, providing the doctor with studies and reports of its effectiveness and safety, and NO history of illicit and/or prescription drug abuse will substantially increase your doctor/psychiatrist 's willingness to try prescription Methamphetamine.

Being prescribed Methamphetamine is very rare. Though it has many excellent reviews, many of which describe it as true normalcy, complete treatment of ADHD without feeling as though you are on a drug, that no other medication can provide, you will likely find something else that works. It is not a panacea for everyone who takes it; it is fairly common for many patients to feel like it does nothing at all and that dextroamphetamine is superior.

It is very expensive. 15mg a day (450mg a month) was $354 at Walgreens, though I personally only payed $57 with my copay. And this was GENERIC Methamphetamine. The name-brand would have been at least twice the price! Many insurance companies do not even cover the generic and few cover the name-brand. Those who will cover it often have it on their highest percentage copay class of drugs or require pre-approval. Try dextroamphetamine spansules first; they will probably be all you need.

3. Normal. No physical side effects or 'crashes' associated with Adderall.

4. There is no euphoria, though I no longer needed my anti-depressant Wellbutrin after starting Desoxyn. I have experienced no over-confidence or recklessness. It does make me a bit more social, especially with the opposite sex. There is no feeling like a zombie, it actually does the opposite; I have visual snow (aka persisting migraine aura) which results in depersonalization/derealization and Desoxyn makes me feel 'here'/'alive' in reality, unlike other ADHD drugs that do the opposite. I don't feel energized or sedated; I'm just normal. It gives me a normal, non-ADHD persons, ability to focus.

5. There is no desire to take it. I often forget to take it. Not taking it for 3 days straight was easy; there were no cravings, no frequent thoughts of it, etc.

6. Yes. Street meth is 60-90% pure, but you'd never know the exact purity. If always purchased from the same dealer who either always cooked it with the same recipe or always bought it from 1 meth cook who did, one could mash it all into a fine powder, mix it up well resulting in a very consistent (in % methamphetamine) pile of powder then measured, using a scale, into, say 7mg doses (taking the 60-90% purite into account, so about 5-6mg doses of methamphetamine itself) which were then put into pill capsules, you could use it as a medication. I AM NOT SUGGESTING YOU DO SO, THIS WOULD BE ILLEGAL, EVEN IF YOU HAD A DOCTOR'S PRESCRIPTION, I AM MERELY ANSWERING A THEORETICAL QUESTION. There will be small amounts of toxic chemicals mixed in with the meth due to the crude chemistry used to produce it. I would guess that the chance of them having any substantial negative effect on you if taken in the way I described above would be very low and would take tens of years to become significant if they did end up negatively effecting you.

^again, the above answer is in no way a suggestion. It will be illegal in any circumstance and abuse, possibly leading to addiction, will have a much, much greater chance of occurring seeing as you would increase your dose however and whenever you saw fit, seeing as you would be able to purchase any amount you wanted whenever you wanted much more cheaply than the FDA regulated medicine. But to answer your question; yes, it is TECHNICALLY possible but it will under any circumstances be illegal, not to mention the higher likelihood of abuse and addiction, toxic chemicals being ingested, and the necessity of either cooking it yourself which comes at a high risk of getting caught and charged with a felony, a foul smelling house, toxic waste, enormous possibly-fatal fire hazard, etc AND/OR the connections to a drug dealer(s) that may pressure you into meth abuse, using other recreational drugs, harm you physically or monetarily, get caught by the cops with you present (resulting in your arrest), rat you out to the cops if caught (or they might investigate you after checking his phone), etc. It would be a really, really stupid idea.