Hi I'm Brent,

I was just switched from 40mg Adderall tabs a day to 20mg dexedrine spanules a day. I can't really tell if the dexedrine is even working. I switched because the adderall had lost its effectivness and i was hoping dexedrine would make for a great other option but so far it hasn't proven any better than the adderall. What should i do? well if their is anything i can do. Do the dexedrine Tabs work better than the Spansules?
any help would be great

thanks

Ummm after a while, stimulants do that..Ya kinda build up tolerance for it....I used to take adderall and now on dexadrine ...and even after a while of taking dexadrine it does not seam as strong. BUT still as effective I do take them...to get the same effect as before..sometimes it has to get out of your system cause of the excess med still in yer body...I would check here for the actual science of it ....www.fda.gov

Well you're at half the dose, so I'm not surprised that the dexedrine isn't working the same as the Adderall. Adderall and Dexedrine are almost the same thing chemically - Adderall uses a few different amphetamine salts to spread out the amount of time it takes for the drug to metabolize, so it's "smoother" - theoretically. I've never tried Adderall so I can't vouch for the way the differences make one feel, but I'll bet for most people the difference is subtle. Adderall is a bet "weaker" - at the same mg size - so if you were taking 40mg Adderall it might be roughly equivalent to 30mg of dexedrine(?) (check with your doctor and/or pharmacist on that info). Tabs vs. spansules effectiveness would be equivalent for Dexedrine and Adderall XR.

awww hell

Hi I'm Brent,

I was just switched from 40mg Adderall tabs a day to 20mg dexedrine spanules a day. I can't really tell if the dexedrine is even working. I switched because the adderall had lost its effectivness and i was hoping dexedrine would make for a great other option but so far it hasn't proven any better than the adderall. What should i do? well if their is anything i can do.

You've already started, asking questions is the best thing you can do. Grab the drug companies monograph (what they say about the drug, what it is, how it works, what you can expect it to do, and what the side effects might be). Compare the two or three drugs in question.
Do the dexedrine Tabs work better than the Spansules?
thanks

Dexedrine Spansules work much different than Adderal. The Dexedrine Spansule releases the first half of the dose immediately, and the rest over "a prolonged period". When I took spansules, I felt like over the effective period I was on a continual downward flight path. A long slow decent is the best way i can describe it. GSK also noes that it has *not* been shown to be superior in effectiveness to the immediate release form at the same dose.

Despite having to take Dexedrine tabs three times (or four) a day, they worked much better for me than teh spansules did. The data sheet on the Dexedrine Spansules is right (they aren't superior to the tabs). I find the tabs much more effective. For me, they work for 4 hours then taper off faiarly quickly. If I take them within the hour after the best effect, I hardly notice where one dose leaves off and the other one starts. I think they are much better than the Spansules.

I've never taken Adderal, though its on my list of options. When I mentioned it to my GP, he said he'd rather see me on an increased dose of what i'm taking now (Dexedrine) than switch to something which is a combination of things. But in essence, when you read the list of ingredients in Adderal, they are the same drug, just a slightly different configuration so that part of it has a different release curve (the graph is in the product monograph). It seems like its timed released but isn't in the sense that there is no other mechanism to control release except the particualr molecular configuration of the drug itslef. You are still taking dextroamphetamine.

The one thing about Dexdrine tabs is that it is easier to fine tune the dose than an extended release is. It is also possible to take Dexedrine tabs and Adderal at the same time becuase they are the same drug. If you added a dexedrine tab some time during the day when you needed it most, you might get the increased amount of Dexedrine nearer to the time you need it than if you simply took more Adderal.

The advice I see from experts continues to be (for both Dexedrine and Methylphenidate - Ritalin) that you increase the dose gradually to where you find the optimal dose that treats the symptoms of ADHD. I keep noticing that they do not put a maximum dose, mearly suggest that most people are successfull at a specific dose.

You didn't say how long you had been taking Adderal for, but I'll assume this is all quite new for you. So, be patient with it. Don't panic when you have to increase doses or change meds. The change your doctor made is not as big as you might think. If the Spansules are not working so well, tell yoru doctor and perhaps suggest that tabs may offer more flexibility. The good news is that for most people, when they find the optimal dose it is good at that dose for long periods of time.

Cheeers,
Katatak

I'm not surprised that you are not finding the 20mg Dex Spans satisfactory. You have bacically halved your dose. Adderall contains
-Dextroamphetamine sulphate
-dextroamphetamine succarate
-Amphetamine aspartate
-Amphetamine sulphate-in equql pqrts.

So you went from 40mgs Amphetamine to 20mgs.

Tell your Doc this and try a higher dose, until a satisfactory result is acheived. It MAY take 40mgs Dexedrine, in either Spans, or as mentioned the prefered IR tabs, 5mg TN SKF Dexedrine tabs or the same Mallincroft 5@10mg IR tabs, to acheive an effective result.

40 mg of Adderall is roughly equivalent to 30 mg of Dexedrine. This is due to the fact that the dextro molecules are "stronger" (meaning it takes a smaller dose to have the same effect) than the other amphetamine compounds. The method of delivery of Dex spansules and Adderall XR is very similar. Both use two types of beads - one that dissolves right away and another that is enteric coated and dissolves about 4 hours later.

I think the only way to get drugs "working" again is to do "drug holidays". eg Skip Sundays, etc.

NB. Talk to your doctor. (I should make a Macro Key for that sentence. <G>)

For me, taking two 15mg Dexadrine SR caps a day is WAY better than taking 3 5mg tabs in the morning and 3 later. I don't know why. The tabs don't seem to have any effect, except if I take a 5mg tab after four hours of taking the SRs. If I just take the tabs, I am overly drowsy in about 2 hours, and any needed effect is gone. I will be talking to my doctor about this. I've heard things about the Mgs being distributed unevenly in certain forms of meds, and I wonder if this matters.

Do not take "med holidays". That is not a wise choice for many reasons. Taking Magnesium and Calcium with Adderall inhibits tolerance and augments absorption rate & efficacy.

If one was ever so inclined they could also use DMAE (or Centrophenoxine but more expensive), or CDP-Choline, or Piracetam, or Aniracetam, or SAM-e, or even Inositol to potentiate the effects of Adderall.

Dexedrine Spansules are better for me but they take time...you have to get the adderall out of your system.....also alpha-gpc supplements with piracetam and aniracetam work very well...with dex.....Phebuit also works really well...you can buy them in bulk powder for pretty reasonable price

Yes very useful this thread... a guy that asked a question 4 years ago and has never posted since.

Do not take "med holidays". That is not a wise choice for many reasons. Taking Magnesium and Calcium with Adderall inhibits tolerance and augments absorption rate & efficacy.

If one was ever so inclined they could also use DMAE (or Centrophenoxine but more expensive), or CDP-Choline, or Piracetam, or Aniracetam, or SAM-e, or even Inositol to potentiate the effects of Adderall.

DMAE or Centrophenoxine pretty much suck. DMAE might actually make things worse given it can actually reduce the amount of dopamine given that its competitive with it.

Piracetam/Aniracetam deal with acetylcholine. different neurotransmitter system mostly unrelated to dopaminergic class that amphetamine is. They are "neurotropics" usually touted for memory enhancement. The research to back up these claims isn't there though. When taking any "acetam" you should supplement with CDP-Choline or Alpha-GPC as a choline source.

Inositol doesn't have much research behind it and doesnt have much to do with dexedrine either.

as for SAM-E that's something that would take me too damn long to write about. It's involvement with methylation is macroscopic compared with ADHD treatment's comparatively microscopic scale. It's claimed a panacea for virtually everything while lacking sufficient research to back it up or determine it's mechanisms which throws a red flag up to me as an aspiring scientist.

anyway.
Supplementing magnesium should be a must for most amphetamine users.

Studies have shown that magnesium/Calcium levels appearto be abnormal after amphetamine use, mostly the level of magnesium in your body drop while the levels of calcium stay the same.

Amphetamine tolerance is speculated to be mainly caused by excess Ca2+ ion influx through the NMDA receptor gated calcium channels on the outer membranes of the dopamine cells bodies in the ventral tegental area, one of two areas in the brain with concentrations of dopamine producing neurons.

Magnesium supplementation alleviates this as it is a partial NMDA antagonist. Consequently, prevention of excess Ca2+ influx would prevent the associated neurotoxicity/excitotoxicity and permanent brain changes that long term amphetamine use is associated with. (Translation: Magnesium is neuroprotective for amp users).

You don't want to take calcium and magnesium at the same time.

Calcium and Magnesium are competitive substrates.
If you take calcium and magnesium at the same time. the absorption of magnesium will be slower then if you took it by itself.

a readily available natural source of magnesium is Bananas.
as for supplementation, go with one with high bioavailability. (Magnesium Aspartate, Citrate and Lactate are the best.)

if you are having issues with tolerance and/or not working as well as before.
Your dopamine stores could be depleted. ("Vacations work in replinishing these) but there are also precursor supplements you can take. Like the amino acid L-Tyrosine or NADH.

What would be the best to take with any amphetamine is memantine (a alzheimers drug). It is probably the perfect partial NMDA antagaonist.
It effectively puts a upper limit on Ca2+ influx without compromising healthy/normal levels of Ca2+ and has minimal side-effects. It'd theoretically be the best neuroprotective pharma and proactive approach to reducing the amount of amphetamine needed to be effective.

Good luck getting a doctor to prescribe that for you though.
it's also kind of expensive.

In short,
eat bananas or take a magnesium supplement before you sleep.

//not a doctor
//just a bio undergrad with a obsessive interest in neurochemistry/neuropharmacology.

anyway.
Supplementing magnesium should be a must for most amphetamine users.

Studies have shown that magnesium/Calcium levels appearto be abnormal after amphetamine use, mostly the level of magnesium in your body drop while the levels of calcium stay the same.

Amphetamine tolerance is speculated to be mainly caused by excess Ca2+ ion influx through the NMDA receptor gated calcium channels on the outer membranes of the dopamine cells bodies in the ventral tegental area, one of two areas in the brain with concentrations of dopamine producing neurons.

Magnesium supplementation alleviates this as it is a partial NMDA antagonist. Consequently, prevention of excess Ca2+ influx would prevent the associated neurotoxicity/excitotoxicity and permanent brain changes that long term amphetamine use is associated with. (Translation: Magnesium is neuroprotective for amp users).


a readily available natural source of magnesium is Bananas.
as for supplementation, go with one with high bioavailability. (Magnesium Aspartate, Citrate and Lactate are the best.)

if you are having issues with tolerance and/or not working as well as before.
Your dopamine stores could be depleted. ("Vacations work in replinishing these) but there are also precursor supplements you can take. Like the amino acid L-Tyrosine or NADH.

In short,
eat bananas or take a magnesium supplement before you sleep.

Hi,
Thanks for all this information.
How much magnesium should we take?? (in mgs).
How many bananas a day?
Should we take it before or after taking amph? or maybe it doesn't matter.

As to L-tyrosine, do you have any experience with it?
Thanks,
Lotus_eyes

How much magnesium should we take?? (in mgs).
How many bananas a day?
Should we take it before or after taking amph? or maybe it doesn't matter.

As to L-tyrosine, do you have any experience with it?
Thanks,
Lotus_eyes

350 - 500mg of supplemented magnesium intake is a good level to reduce/prevent tolerance and for maintaining healthy calcium to magnesium ratios.

(remember to make sure you get a GOOD form. Citrate,Lactate,Glycinate) Good form = your body actually absorbs it. Most of those 1000mg cheap magnesium oxide are only good as laxatives. If you are having alot of bowel movements, when supplementing magnesium. it's a sign you are in excess.

Personally speaking, I'd say the best time to take it would be before sleep along with a B-vitamin or multivitamin. There are numerous claims that zinc, magnesium and B vitamin improves sleep quality so you'd be hitting 2 birds with one stone and when you wake up your calcium/magnesium levels would be normalized and better receptive to your morning dose.

as for bananas. Bananas are a great food in general to eat. You can get one or two down with a glass of water when you can't stomach eating anything else.

as for L-Tyrosine. My personal experience with it involves me taking it while trying deprenyl/selegiline for ADD treatment.

The only thing I noticed consistently was my added anxiety and my sex drive. I would not recommend L-Tyrosine supplementation personally and I'm of the opinion that supplementing individual amino acid precursors to replenish catecholamine stores isn't worth the trouble. I only mentioned NADH and l-tyrosine for completeness. however YMMV.

I'd say the best, safest and cheapest option is to go off of the meds for a weekend and keep a healthy high protein and complex carb diet (with usual multivit, magnesium and fish oil reccommendation) and let your body do it naturally from food.

Do not take "med holidays". That is not a wise choice for many reasons. Taking Magnesium and Calcium with Adderall inhibits tolerance and augments absorption rate & efficacy.

I meant to address this earlier.

You most certainly need to qualify a statement of this type when you make it. "Do not take med holidays" and why it is not a wise choice.

"For many reasons" is not an adequate qualifier and contributes nothing to the discussion.

also you are completely misinformed with regards to calcium and magnesium as I mentioned earlier.

Amphetamines deplete magnesium levels while calcium levels stay the same.
Given that magnesium and calcium are absorbed equally. You are not going to change your magnesium stores to a healthy level by taking them both. and especially at the same time.