View Full Version : Venting...overheard teachers at the coffee shop.


CheekyMonkey
08-29-12, 07:23 PM
I need to vent this before I lose it on these people!


I am sitting doing work and 2 teachers are next to me griping about large class sizes and how many special needs kids they have.

Then one says, "yeah, and then they all want extra time on test. Yeah...ok. Just these parents enabling their children! Then they want aides for their kids, good luck when your kid is 25, living at home and working at Walmart!"



Is this what teachers are like?!?


I am completely disgusted. Our education system is in a sad sad state.

Ms. Mango
08-29-12, 07:29 PM
Yeah, talk to my mom (retired teacher). She used to say things just like that.

Her DGS is making her eat those words.

Lunacie
08-29-12, 07:45 PM
We know my youngest granddaughter will still be living at home at 25, and at 40.

We'll be thrilled if she can get and keep a job at Walmart.

She has Autism. We've never been able to get the school to give an aide of her own,

she's always shared an aide with at least 2 other kids.

But this does sound like something my sister-in-law who taught for 30 years would say

and unfortunately she still substitute teaches. This is why I don't talk to her much

about my grandkids. She returns the favor by not bragging non-stop about her grandkids. :rolleyes:

sarahsweets
08-29-12, 08:17 PM
F**K those teachers. I was an ed major once before I realized I had no patience and they teach you how to deal with all kids, not necessarily like a speical ed teacher but certainly more than these bi***es are willing to give. This is what makes education a failure and chore for those children who have special needs but are off the chart smart.

Kasi
08-29-12, 08:25 PM
I understand them on the large class sizes, I had teachers that felt that WE, not they, would be best served in classes that topped off at 25 students, not 40 or even 45. Some of them even said they'd be *willing* to teach an extra class for less pay, if it meant it reduced the number of students in each class.

However, I just want to snarl at them about them ******** about having 'special needs' students. I never knew I was ADHD until after high school, but I was deaf and I know I definitely got frustrated with both teachers and counselors that did the bare minimum, or even IGNORED the bare minimum. Good thing I'd already learned to control my temper or hell would have been raised and they would have heard it five blocks away... It's actually even worse when it's counselors that *deal* with special education that get annoyed by you, or are surprised when you speak well, or do well in advanced classes.

crystal8080
08-29-12, 08:32 PM
That's rude. Tell them they should do a better job at being a teacher. If they want to dump on special needs kids needing aids, then they should be so amazing that they can take on the large classes. Must be nice to be so perfect! All their kids should be top students! They aren't? Well why not?

People like that keep a kick in the you know what.

Spacemaster
08-29-12, 10:21 PM
I am typically non-confrontational, but in this case I don't think I could've kept my trap shut. I'd probably say something like, "well, I am certainly glad my child will not be attending YOUR class". I'm sure I'd have more to say too... and "shame on you! I guess these children, by no fault of their own, do not deserve your precious time. I suppose you all were emerging from under a rock when you decided to go to college for teaching, and then found out that, OH MY! the schools are overcrowded and understaffed!" :faint:

Are they in their own freaking universe? What exactly did they expect to experience when they took the job?

*said in sarcasm*

"Oh, yes, we want to make a difference in our student's lives, but only if they come without baggage or developmental disorders. We only want to teach small groups of clean cut, bright young students, that never disrupt the classroom, never lose their homework, and always remember to bring their lunches".

*normal rant voice*

Just what is so wrong with working at Walmart? Why is it that people are considered "losers" if they work at an honest, but small paying jobs? Yet, folks bow down and kiss lawyers' and business people's' arses, because THAT's where the money and social prestige come.

I'm not saying, of course, that rich people are all jerks, and everyone is a bunch of money grubbers. Sandy, lawyers can be nice people too! :o

BUT, I'm darn tired of people looking down on folks that work at minimum wage jobs. Always assuming, that the guy making their sandwich just doesn't care about their life or a career. Maybe sandwich guy can't hold down a job because he has severe panic attacks and a disorder that affects his brain function! Maybe sandwich guy WANTS to have a great career and make tons of money! Don't we all?

Maybe Janey Spectrum doesn't WANT to be in a special ed class. She wants to sit in the normal classroom, and make friends. She however has no clue how to, because socialising is baffling. The kids make fun of her because she speaks in a monotone voice and won't stop waving her hand. I'm pretty sure she doesn't WANT to be this way.

Do these teachers actually give a rats tootie about their students? Or did they tell everyone they want to make a difference in children's lives so they felt good about themselves, and were thought of as special, saintly people? Or, are they so burnt out that it's just a job now...

wow, sorry for that bit of ranting. That topic just got me going I guess

Ms. Mango
08-29-12, 10:31 PM
My mother got her undergrad degree in the 50's and masters + 30 hours in the 70's. She stopped a few courses and a dissertation short of a PhD. I don't think she had any special ed training on coursework on LDs--at all. When she started teaching kids like DS weren't in her classroom or even in her school.

Does anyone know if students in education programs (other than special ed majors) today have to learn about LDs?

DS mystifies her. We visited her recently and I was telling her that DS still struggles with handwriting. She said, with authority, "that's because he wasn't taught to hold a pencil correctly. If he was taught to hold it correctly he wouldn't be having a problem [still]."

No, he knows how to hold a pencil correctly. He uses a grip that forces him to hold it the right way (DS likes the grip and asks for it). Without the grip he still displays in immature grasp--despite all the OT he's received.

I just looked at her and reiterated what I said above. Then I said,"did you know that lots of kids with ADHD have fine motor skills problems? Have you ever thought that kids who don't grip a pencil the right way do it like that not because they haven't been taught how to do it but because an incorrect grip is an indicator of something wrong? Like ADHD or a learning disability?"

"Oh, I never thought of that." :scratch:

She taught for over thirty years and was considered an excellent teacher.

Geno
08-29-12, 10:42 PM
Bad teachers aren't the real problem, although the majority of teachers are terrible at their job, a ****-poor educational system in this country is the real issue, and the unfortunate reality is this:

It's never, ever going to get significantly better without a COMPLETE overhaul, and people so too afraid of change for that to happen. There'll be little improvements here and there but in the end it's like spraying air freshener on a pile of crap and decorating it with glitter. You can do what you want but in the end it's still a piece of crap. Now, whenever I say this someone asks me "Well what's your idea smart guy?".

Go look up how Finland's education system works. It's not PERFECT, but it's better than the US's by leaps and bounds in every possible way. The only two things I've learned in school is how to hate school and that, when someone bothers you endlessly, the only way to make them stop is through violence. (although the latter isn't true in the real world, it sure as hell is in middle/high school)

Ms. Mango
08-29-12, 10:45 PM
"Oh, yes, we want to make a difference in our student's lives, but only if they come without baggage or developmental disorders. We only want to teach small groups of clean cut, bright young students, that never disrupt the classroom, never lose their homework, and always remember to bring their lunches".


That's what they were thinking. Pretty much. That's why I wondered if ed majors have to learn anything about special ed kids nowadays.

My mother always said you don't get to teach only the bright kids, and she did have kids with problems, but still, a lot of kids like ours we in semi- or fully contained special ed classrooms when she taught.

Ms. Mango
08-29-12, 10:50 PM
Bad teachers aren't the real problem, although the majority of teachers are terrible at their job, a ****-poor educational system in this country is the real issue, and the unfortunate reality is this:

It's never, ever going to get significantly better without a COMPLETE overhaul, and people so too afraid of change for that to happen. There'll be little improvements here and there but in the end it's like spraying air freshener on a pile of crap and decorating it with glitter. You can do what you want but in the end it's still a piece of crap. Now, whenever I say this someone asks me "Well what's your idea smart guy?".

Go look up how Finland's education system works. It's not PERFECT, but it's better than the US's by leaps and bounds in every possible way. The only two things I've learned in school is how to hate school and that, when someone bothers you endlessly, the only way to make them stop is through violence. (although the latter isn't true in the real world, it sure as hell is in middle/high school)

Teacher's unions are very powerful in this country. Good luck trying to change the tenure system.

Finland does do an excellent job of educating its students, but it is widely acknowledged that their homogeneos population makes it easier. And also more difficult to apply in a country like the US.

Geno
08-29-12, 10:53 PM
Teacher's unions are very powerful in this country. Good luck trying to change the tenure system.

Finland does do an excellent job of educating its students, but it is widely acknowledged that their heterogenious population makes it easier. And also more difficult to apply in a country like the US.

While that's true, it doesn't change the fact that the system is total garbage and will never change. Even if they did change the tenure system, like I said, at most it'd be spraying air freshener on a big pile of diarrhea.

Ms. Mango
08-29-12, 10:57 PM
While that's true, it doesn't change the fact that the system is total garbage and will never change. Even if they did change the tenure system, like I said, at most it'd be spraying air freshener on a big pile of diarrhea.

Tru dat.

Geno
08-29-12, 11:17 PM
Only thing parents can really do to help their kids is homeschool them (in addition to making sure they get social interaction in other ways). It's not as time consuming as it was in the old days, there's online homeschooling things now where the parent has to put very little time or effort in to it.

oneup
08-30-12, 12:12 AM
My Mom's a teacher, about to retire. Last year she was constantly complaining about this kid in her class, and how his mom needed to get him evaluated for adhd and medicated.

Somehow the irony that she had never taken me as a kid to get evaluated was lost on her...despite all the trouble I got into...

But in her district they are putting all the autism kids in with everyone else since its better for them, at least the mild autism kiddies according to some reasearch or something. I can understand why the older teachers are complaining about more work but still they get paid a lot so I don't get it.

Geno
08-30-12, 12:28 AM
My Mom's a teacher, about to retire. Last year she was constantly complaining about this kid in her class, and how his mom needed to get him evaluated for adhd and medicated.

Somehow the irony that she had never taken me as a kid to get evaluated was lost on her...despite all the trouble I got into...

But in her district they are putting all the autism kids in with everyone else since its better for them, at least the mild autism kiddies according to some reasearch or something. I can understand why the older teachers are complaining about more work but still they get paid a lot so I don't get it.

I don't think high-functioning autistics should be in seperate special ed classes because they're not mentally retarded. If I was an HFA kid and they tried to put me in the same class with the down syndrome(no offense, just picked a condition that causes low IQ) I'd be insulted big time. I've met people with HFA and I see no reason why they'd need to be in special ed unless they either had a very low IQ(under 70, the upper limit for mental retardation) or had meltdowns on a daily basis.

CheekyMonkey
08-30-12, 12:39 AM
I get that it is hard. Having an over crowded classroom, and having to be able to teach to different levels and handle different behaviors.

But why do they insult the children and their parents?! Why don't they complain about the SYSTEM that has failed everyone?"

I work closely with many teachers, teaching them about how to incorporate autistic kids into their classroom and support them. Most of them are clueless about autism, but willing to learn. Most of the behavioral things that help non-typical kids work great for typical kids as well.


Thanks for the replies, I needed to get this out and make sure I wasn't losing my mind!

Geno
08-30-12, 12:49 AM
I get that it is hard. Having an over crowded classroom, and having to be able to teach to different levels and handle different behaviors.

Hahaha, I don't feel bad for any of them. They knew exactly what they were getting in to when they became teachers as most of them went to school as kids themselves in addition to going through 4 years of college. If they went in to the profession thinking it was going to be all sunshine and roses teaching perfect kids and just needing to hand out work and grading it, then they deserve the stress and aggravation . It's not supposed to be easy, and if they wanted an easy job they should have looked in to another career path.

CheekyMonkey
08-30-12, 12:58 AM
Hahaha, I don't feel bad for any of them. They knew exactly what they were getting in to when they became teachers as most of them went to school as kids themselves in addition to going through 4 years of college. If they went in to the profession thinking it was going to be all sunshine and roses teaching perfect kids and just needing to hand out work and grading it, then they deserve the stress and aggravation . It's not supposed to be easy, and if they wanted an easy job they should have looked in to another career path.

*Some* of those teachers thought they could change things, make it better, make a difference. Hope is a risky thing.

Geno
08-30-12, 01:04 AM
*Some* of those teachers thought they could change things, make it better, make a difference. Hope is a risky thing.

True, but there's two things...

1. Many good teachers talk about the system and how they want to help kids, but just can't because of the system and how it works. They should have researched this and how impossible it is to deviate/change before they became teachers. It's sad and I do feel a little bad for the few that get in to the profession with that thinking, but I've never considered being a teacher and I know this because I've heard complaints about it from good teachers throughout my school life.

2. I've noticed the teachers who are the most stressed out who complain about how difficult the job is/the students are, are bad teachers. The good teachers I knew in high school never complained about their job and said they love doing what they do. The bad teachers were the constant complainers.

CheekyMonkey
08-30-12, 01:09 AM
True, but there's two things...

1. Many good teachers talk about the system and how they want to help kids, but just can't because of the system and how it works. They should have researched this and how impossible it is to deviate/change before they became teachers. It's sad and I do feel a little bad for the few that get in to the profession with that thinking, but I've never considered being a teacher and I know this because I've heard complaints about it from good teachers throughout my school life.

2. I've noticed the teachers who are the most stressed out who complain about how difficult the job is/the students are, are bad teachers. The good teachers I knew in high school never complained about their job and said they love doing what they do. The bad teachers were the constant complainers.

There is truth in both of those points.

Geno
08-30-12, 01:38 AM
For example, I knew a chemistry teacher in high school who made a big s**t about the fact she needed to teach regular classes in addition to honor's classes. She said to the regular class she teaches "I hate that they're forcing me to teach regular classes this year. For 10 years they let me teach nothing but honor's and it was great. Unlike the honors kids, you people are so loud and disruptive, none of you ever actually make any effort to do their work and every day I'm cleaning up broken lab equipment thanks to your carelessness.". I was in that class and she brought that up on almost a daily basis.

Funnily enough, she actually did get a talking to because she was sending over 10 kids to the office every single day and screaming so loud it was disrupting nearby classes.

Lunacie
08-30-12, 10:04 AM
My mother got her undergrad degree in the 50's and masters + 30 hours in the 70's. She stopped a few courses and a dissertation short of a PhD. I don't think she had any special ed training on coursework on LDs--at all. When she started teaching kids like DS weren't in her classroom or even in her school.

Does anyone know if students in education programs (other than special ed majors) today have to learn about LDs?

DS mystifies her. We visited her recently and I was telling her that DS still struggles with handwriting. She said, with authority, "that's because he wasn't taught to hold a pencil correctly. If he was taught to hold it correctly he wouldn't be having a problem [still]."

No, he knows how to hold a pencil correctly. He uses a grip that forces him to hold it the right way (DS likes the grip and asks for it). Without the grip he still displays in immature grasp--despite all the OT he's received.

I just looked at her and reiterated what I said above. Then I said,"did you know that lots of kids with ADHD have fine motor skills problems? Have you ever thought that kids who don't grip a pencil the right way do it like that not because they haven't been taught how to do it but because an incorrect grip is an indicator of something wrong? Like ADHD or a learning disability?"

"Oh, I never thought of that." :scratch:

She taught for over thirty years and was considered an excellent teacher.

My Autistic granddaughter went to our local school for 6 years (pre-K thru 4th grade)

and no one offered her a special pencil or grip to use. When we visited the special school

last week and the principal told us about the special pencils the kids can use,

we were thrilled for my granddaughter . . . and amazed no one had offered her one before.


When we had a lovely talk with the new teacher and principal yesterday, they said

they were letting her do most of her writing on the computer - YAY for them.

She loves using the computer and has great keyboard skills for someone who has

never been taught to use one. The only thing they let her do on the computer

at the old school was play some games as a reward for doing her work.


Most teachers really don't have a clue how to work with kids who have mental disorders.

It's true that the system sucks, they think inclusion is a great thing but don't

give the teachers any training on how to work with kids who aren't perfect.

Amtram
08-30-12, 03:40 PM
Well, I've had my dealings with teachers who shouldn't be teaching, and whether it's online or in person, I've developed the backbone to confront them. It may not make any difference in their attitudes, but it changes other people's minds and makes me feel pretty darn good, too. Heh.

Drewbacca
08-30-12, 03:40 PM
I need to vent this before I lose it on these people!


You're stronger than me, I would have let loose! :lol:
But then, after having several professors unwilling to work around my issues over the last year, it's personal at this point.


I get that it is hard. Having an over crowded classroom, and having to be able to teach to different levels and handle different behaviors.

Sure. I wouldn't be offended if they were just venting themselves... but the choice to talk openly about these things in a coffee shop? Good teachers have lost jobs for less.

MX2012
08-30-12, 03:48 PM
CheekyMonkey -- sadly there is currently a push to dismiss mental and physical disabilities as phantom illnesses. I feel this is because many people are unable to cope with the idea that there are people out here who are different from them.

They also believe that people who claim disabilities are just trying to get special treatment and benefits from society. This stems from the current "greed is good" and the "free-market economy" philosophies. If they adopt these philosophies, they can relieve themselves of having to feel any empathy for others.

Realize that while these people are teachers, they live in a closed world of information much of which is influenced by the above philosophies. Most people do not realize that they live in a closed world of information, most of us do.

Stay true to yourself. Do your own research. Seek alternative information sites. Don't give up hope.

oneup
08-31-12, 03:15 PM
I don't think high-functioning autistics should be in seperate special ed classes because they're not mentally retarded. If I was an HFA kid and they tried to put me in the same class with the down syndrome(no offense, just picked a condition that causes low IQ) I'd be insulted big time. I've met people with HFA and I see no reason why they'd need to be in special ed unless they either had a very low IQ(under 70, the upper limit for mental retardation) or had meltdowns on a daily basis.

That was the problem that that was how the district had been doing it for years until they did research that not surprisingly showed its better for kids with aspergers and milder autism to be in regular classes. And now that autism is diagnosed more, and a child is attached with a label (or even adhd), the teachers complain and complain about having to work harder. I think most teachers start getting burned out around 10 yrs experience, that's why they have to give them tenure and stuff to keep them around. I would never want to teach.

Black_Rose1809
09-02-12, 06:25 AM
I need to vent this before I lose it on these people!


I am sitting doing work and 2 teachers are next to me griping about large class sizes and how many special needs kids they have.

Then one says, "yeah, and then they all want extra time on test. Yeah...ok. Just these parents enabling their children! Then they want aides for their kids, good luck when your kid is 25, living at home and working at Walmart!"



Is this what teachers are like?!?


I am completely disgusted. Our education system is in a sad sad state.


Some are... my mom's teacher is like that (My mom is a teacher assistant.) She gets frustrated and pushes them aside, but thank the gods that my mom is there and tells her not to do that. She had had experience with children like that (Me) and she knows how hard it is with children like that.

Also it depends on the school, an example:

The school my mom works at was my elementary school from kindergarten to 4th grade. It was the 90s, so not much help for children in special ed. Until I was in 4th grade, I was diagnosed with ADD. And I gotta tell you, 4th grade SUCKED... The teacher didn't care about me (except some 3 awesome ones... and a bad apple.) and just threw me aside and since that year, I was emotionally scarred for life. Just because of a ******* teacher like those teachers.

Now for the present: My mother works at the same school in pre-k and things have changed for the better. The principal is more into the classes, so he stops by and examines the class and if sees the children being mistreated or not receiving the help they need, he asks why and interrogates the teachers. He's a huge advocate for the special ed kids because his son is like that, so I'm glad he's there, even if he's a stick in the mud. >_>

Since the years have passed, more research have been made and now for teachers they are taught about kids with problems and how to handle them. And if the school is strict like my mom's, then there won't be problems. It sounds like to me that that school those teachers are from are not really well disciplined.