Howdy,

I'm in search of opinions if you think this is ODD and/or CD and nice ways to present it to my brother and his family and information that will help them. Currently I've sent some info and links to my mom so she can review and present it as a sort of 3rd party.

My nephew is ADHD, we knew by age 2. This kid could not sit still, zoom between activities with attention to each activity for 1 to 2 minutes. He would hyperfocus to watch movies and that was it. He also talked so fast that you couldn't understand what he was saying. Diagnosed and on meds since Kindergarten. Problem with this...I don't think his parents thought they had to do anything else to help. He's on meds so everythings alright, right? :rolleyes: He's 12 now and in 6th or 7th grade, middle school I think.

He's shown ODD symptoms since he was very little. You know the kids that will get that evil mean little look on their face before they do something? Yeah, that's him.

You can visually see this kid get angry, sheer fury on his face. At my daughter's bday party they were in a basketball pit with hoops. A kid threw at the basket missed and hit Stephen, an accident. Stephen picked up a ball and threw it at the kid as hard as he could. My mom (maternal grandma to him) saw it and pulled him out of there.) He also never does what he is asked without arguing about it.
My kids were in daycare at his house for over 4 years, good part: Stephen was in school most of the time. Bad part: when he was home he got them in trouble and blamed everything on them. typical example: "David, let's play ninjas, pretend to kick me" at age 3 or 4 David was more likely to actually kick him than pretend to which gets "Mom, David kicked me" and David gets in trouble. Every day we'd hear that Stephen got the kids in trouble and blamed things on them. We'd say tell your aunt and they'd say she either didn't listen or wouldn't believe them. We've gotten smart and changed daycare services.

On to the CD...we've had something major almost every year.

At age 6 Stephen poured furnature wax on their cat and just about demolished my sewing machine.
1st or 2nd grade a kid pushed or pulled Stephen off something and Stephen's arm was broken. Of course, the other kid was mean and did-'t like Stephen, Stephen did nothing to provoke this (according to his mom)
A couple years ago he choked a girl at recess, had to see the school counselor for a couple weeks.
Last year lied to his teachers that the power was out so he couldn't do his homework. He also said a few rude things to adults at school and got in trouble.
Did you guess he has few, if any, friends? Nothing is ever his fault and his mom will say they were being mean to you.
Last year he pushed David off his bunk bed. (he said David jumped or fell on his own and that David was making it up to get him in trouble.)
In March at a family meal outing, he was repeatedly complaining about how long it was taking to get seated at a restaurant, my mom said, knock it off or you can sit out in the truck while we eat. His reaction: fine, then I'll just cut the truck seats up. (didn't do it, just threatened)
He played "the naked game" with my son (age 4, now 5). It was taking your clothes off and touching we don't think it went any further than that. He denies that it happened and David is making things up to get him in trouble. (a 4 year old does not come up with things like that!)
This thanksgiving my daughter did something (pushed him, tossed a toy at him, something...she's 3), he threw a toy at her hard enough for her to start bawling.
Also at thanksgiving, I caught him taking David upstairs so that they could spy on people in the bathroom (about a 1 inch gap at the bottom of the door)
Constantly bullies or pushes younger kids around.
Since my kids aren't there for him to pick on and take things out on things have gotten worse at school and home.


As of a few weeks ago, he was failing all his classes
A kid was bugging him in class so Stephen pulled out a pair of scissors and threatened to stab him. suspended for 3 days. (we're not supposed to know this, my brother told my mom but has not mentioned it to us.)
He's in therapy, initiated and pushed by us and the naked game. He's still in therapy for "anger issues". If he wasn't adhd and in therapy he would have been expelled from the school. I was not surprised by this, I can see this kid setting fire to the school, or taking a gun if he could get a hold of one. He's not allowed to be alone with our kids and we avoid seeing him if possible. We're relieved he's not going to be at our family's Christmas. He'll be visiting the other grandparents.

I see this kid going downhill so fast. What do you think and what are the best ways to help him? I think his dad (my brother) has given up and doesn't want anything to do with him. He's his mom's baby and everyone is just mean to him. Really bad things are going to happen if they don't seriously start helping him. We can get information to them, but they have to do it themselves.

Thanks for reading and any advice!!
Barbara

You're in a tough spot
if you say nothing and something happens down the road you'll feel guilty
no matter what you say you'll be considered butting in.

Found some links
http://addadhdadvances.com/ODDtest.html (http://addadhdadvances.com/ODDtest.html)

http://addadhdadvances.com/CDtest.html (http://addadhdadvances.com/CDtest.html)

looking at this site though they only claim you can mold your ADD child until the age of 12...so I'm not so sure about trusting this site myself.

http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/oddcd/about.htm
Often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful and vindictive

If you look at a group of preschool boys who have ODD and check them out two years later, about 75% still have something wrong.

Sometimes ODD at that age changes into something else, but that is rare. More often ADHD and ODD just continue on.

The more common thing that happens is that children with ODD develop signs of mood disorders or anxiety as they get older.

By the time these children are in the end of elementary school, about 25% will have mood or anxiety problems which are disabling. That means that it is very important to watch for signs of mood disorder and anxiety as children with ODD grow older.

What is the difference between ODD and ADHD?
ODD is characterized by aggressiveness, but not impulsiveness.

In ODD people annoy you purposefully, While it is usually not so purposeful in ADHD.

Wishing all the best and praying you continue to protect your children as well (great job pursuing him getting counseling!!!).

Thanks for the links...Stephen has most of those symptoms. :(

I'll continue to butt in, if my mom can bring it up with the parents it might go over better. We officially don't know about the scissors, but should be ok having him around our kids? I'm thinking NO!

I'm the one who had the talk about Stephen's anger with his dad and looking back couldn't he see a pattern of extreme anger and behavior? Once it was brought up, he agreed. We actually downplayed the naked part and stressed the part that we need to help Stephen now.

His parents are a huge obstacle themselves...my brother ignores his son. Partially because anytime he tried to correct or discipline his son she would scream at him to leave her baby alone. (he wasn't a baby at time, btw.) So he ignores him and she does most of the time too. At family gatherings we end up watching all 3 kids, because we won't let him be alone with ours. In part they say he's 12 and is old enough to be responsible, but he's not. It isn't until my parents or we say something about his behavior that one of them will jump in and try to correct him.

Barbara

Hi-

Charlie misinterpreted something that I wrote. I am not saying that you can only mold your child until the age of twelve. That is simply not true. A person can change his behavior all his life.

What I did say was this:

I have an online program on ADMIN'S NOTE: URL Removed - Please see Forum Guidelines. This program is designed to help parents improve their child's behavior and improve their relationship with their child. This program is for children twelve an under. This is not because only these children can be helped. It's because that when a child reaches adolescence, the approach changes. Though many of the principles still apply, this program won't be as effective for teens. That is what I wrote there.

However, if anyone has specific questions for children of any age, you can contact me thru my site at ADMIN'S NOTE: URL Removed - Please see Forum Guidelines.

Have a great week.

Warmly,

Anthony Kane, MD

ADMIN'S NOTE: URL Removed - Please see Forum Guidelines

Cool a MD that surfs and answers an ADD forum, gotta love it.

Please accept my public apology that I misinterpreted your writings.
I did think the 'tests' were worth sharing, so I did.

erm, might be a little hard hitting but what about giving them an edited copy of the post you made. I mean its got everything there, just might want to tidy it up so it dont look like your asking a bunch of people on the net what to do. I mean, might kind of upset them.