Hi Everyone,

I need some help. I've posted some long frustrated rants here but I hope to make this post/question a little more pointed. (I will try!)

I love my boyfriend. He is creative, energetic, and wonderful! I've been very frustrated with some of his ADD characteristics, although I am charmed and impressed by some of them as well. It really is a mixed bag, and it's part of what makes him unique and beautiful.

As I'm reading more and working thinking all this through some more, I'm feeling that I may be more frustrated with his denial of his self-defeating or chaotic behavior than the behavior itself.

This is what I think I need some help and guidance with.

As I find myself understanding and accepting things more, I find myself saying some new things to him. I think this is indicative of my perspective changing. However, I feel that I am becomming more supportive, yet I am inspiring hostility at times in my boyfriend. This concerns me. I wonder if I am not saying the right things or inadvertantly being insensitive? An example: He becomes upset at times by all the clutter and chaos in his home. He is persistently losing things, breaking things or ruining them. It appears to be in his nature to walk into a room and throw things down or pile things up. So he becomes frustrated at times and I've been trying to be soothing and supportive. Now here's the part that inspires hostility... in my attempt to sooth him I'll say things like, "It's okay, that's how you do things. It's how your mind works.". Essentially I am trying to say, "it's okay! It's not sick, it's not wrong. It is what it is. Now let's work with it."

But he becomes angry and defensive. He will say "it's not how my mind works! There's no other place to put that stuff!". He will say this about 3 loads of laundry piled up on the bed in disarray when there is empty shelving space and empty dresser drawers. He will say that there is "no other way" when there are many other ways/options. Or he will come up with all kinds of other excuses about being "too busy" or having this project going on, or that project, or whatever. None of which really provide a logical reason for the pile ups or chaos. It's something he does whether he's stressed or not. It's very consistent and just part of how he does everything.

So my question is... how do we get past all these excuses? And what am I supposed to do in all this? It seems that I cannot say *anything* without him flying off the handle. The best way to avoid a fight is to be quiet and not say anything at all - to pretend it's all not happening. But this doesn't feel right to me, especially when he is expressing his own frustration or feelings of defeat.

Maybe I'm going about this all wrong, I admit that I do not claim to have all the answers. But I am frustrated with all the excuses and the denial. I don't think he's sick or wrong to do things the way that he does them. I am willing to accept him. I am almost becomming angry because I feel that he is not accepting himself! I am starting to feel like, c'mon, what is the big freakin' deal?? Why do we have to pretend or make up elaborate excuses?

Does anyone have any advice?

(Sorry this is long again - I can be wordy!)

D.

I've noticed that sometimes when I'm frustrated about something and the person I'm with tries to be soothing, it just riles me further. I'm not sure why this happens, but it definitely does. Sometimes when this happens I get it into my head they are being patronizing and I hate that. I have no idea what they are really thinking, its just how it hits me.

Sometimes I feel better when someone takes me seriously and we look for solutions or maybe just kvetch a little, communally. Its a nice break from dealing with the fact it may be my fault or its a repetitive problem I'm trying to deal with, e.g. procrastination.

I guess I'm occasionally getting tired of dealing with myself and need to take a break. I mean, I always know in my heart what my problems are, pretty much.

maybe this is true with your boyfriend???

Those don't sound like excuses, best thing, if you love him, do his laundry and help him with the things he doesn't want to do. I'm sure if he was on the right med, chances are those little things will get done. Good Luck.

T-Bass

First: I have very limited experience with this. I'm no expert. I'm just going to share what I experienced.

When my guy would get into his mode, and then get angry with himself about it, I found, like you that the "It's okay, no big deal" just seem to fan the flames, and he would redirect the anger from himself to me.

I discovered what worked for me by getting fed up with that.

What I found worked, surprisingly, for me, was more along the lines of "tough love," I suppose. Basically, withholding sympathy for a situation he created and he can choose. So, our conversations changed from:

HIM: Why do I DOOO this????
ME: It's okay, it's just the way you are.
HIM: What the #%#@ do you know about the way I am???

to:
HIM: Why do I DOOO this????
ME: Do what?
HIM: [insert behavior here]
ME: I have no idea. But you can stand there yelling about it or we can do something about it. What do you want to do?
HIM: I want this mess cleaned up!!!
ME: Then STOP WHINING. Where's the trashcan? Give me a broom, and we'll spend a half an hour getting this straightened up.


I think this worked because it was empowering to him-- a "you CAN change this" message rather than "it's okay to be a victim of your ADD" message. I felt like kind of a b**** at the time, but the results were very good for us.

Again, just my experience, for what it's worth! Good luck!

An example: He becomes upset at times by all the clutter and chaos in his home. He is persistently losing things, breaking things or ruining them. It appears to be in his nature to walk into a room and throw things down or pile things up. So he becomes frustrated at times and I've been trying to be soothing and supportive. Now here's the part that inspires hostility... in my attempt to sooth him I'll say things like, "It's okay, that's how you do things. It's how your mind works.". Essentially I am trying to say, "it's okay! It's not sick, it's not wrong. It is what it is. Now let's work with it."

But he becomes angry and defensive. He will say "it's not how my mind works! There's no other place to put that stuff!". He will say this about 3 loads of laundry piled up on the bed in disarray when there is empty shelving space and empty dresser drawers. He will say that there is "no other way" when there are many other ways/options. Or he will come up with all kinds of other excuses about being "too busy" or having this project going on, or that project, or whatever. None of which really provide a logical reason for the pile ups or chaos. It's something he does whether he's stressed or not. It's very consistent and just part of how he does everything.


You don't get it. Just because you see "space" on his shelves to put stuff doesn't me that he sees "space" on his shelves to put stuff. He may be an everything out sort of person. This means that if he can't see it, he can't find it. You probably have no idea how frustrating it is to try to order things and to discover you have only made things worse because you can't remember where you put things.

Also, he has no doubt learned self-defeating habits because of previous frustrations. Ask him if he would like you to help him organize things but be warned that this would involve making a list of where absolutely everything is stored and making sure it is posted in each area and that these lists cannot be moved. Laminate them to the wall or something. If you make the list portable, he will lose every list. I know, I've done it!

Or, since it's his apartment, you could just resolve to say nothing. That way his mess becomes his business and his responsibility.

He will say this about 3 loads of laundry piled up on the bed in disarray when there is empty shelving space and empty dresser drawers. He will say that there is "no other way" when there are many other ways/options. Or he will come up with all kinds of other excuses about being "too busy" or having this project going on, or that project, or whatever. None of which really provide a logical reason for the pile ups or chaos. It's something he does whether he's stressed or not. It's very consistent and just part of how he does everything.Wow. That's really interesting. My boyfriend does the same thing in a way - he seems to just leave things in the middle of the floor or walkway, rather than set it against a wall or something. (I've tripped over stuff quite often.) He also has a habit of spreading things out rather than put them in a neat pile, and then will say there's "no more room". He's gotten better from watching me, but it seems like the logic does slip sometimes.

My suggestion though, would be to help him out now as much as you can, especially if you foresee living together later, because it will make things much easier. Believe me, it does get frustrating coming home to find stuff in the middle of the floors. It's a habit he's breaking, but it's going rather slowly.

He will say that there is "no other way" when there are many other ways/options. Or he will come up with all kinds of other excuses about being "too busy" or having this project going on, or that project, or whatever.

Believe your B/F when he makes these statememts--there are no other ways/no other options. From his add perspective, this is true.

The add mind "sees" the world so differently. Some of my friends do not understand :o , either, yet I do try to explain. For me, the addult, it is very, very hard (extremely dificult) to see beyond the clutter... and it is very hard to decide what to do first and how to break it down into manageable steps. It is so much easier to run.

I have found a wonderful resource. The ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life. Get it....not to organize his home/life, but for you to gain a better understanding of his experience. When and/or if he is interested, the two of you can work this out togehter. But right now, unless he asks, I believe that he needs to make his own choices about his space. ;)

I have used a professional organizer who understands ADD. She is able to support me without judging me.......and that's what most Adders need and want. We just wish that our partners could hear us. :cool: It just takes time, and a lot of "listening".

I agree with Deeperblue - let your BF make his own choices about his space even if he's frustrated by it at times.

Try stepping back when he gets annoyed and let him resolve it himself. If he asks for help, then help but by jumping in it seems to get into the parenting dynamic that many partners of ADDers feel they're in and complain about. It's natural and loving to want to help, but believe me, it can just make things worse.

If you really feel you must help him in some way, wait until he's calm and make some suggestions but be prepared if he chooses not to take your suggestion.

My guy and I have lived together for 1 1/2 years. What I've done is give up on the den, where he spends lots of time on the computer and is close to his closet. Every once in a while, I'll go in and say let's do it, and help him with the paperwork. Mostly, I want some kind of order for the living room and bedroom -- it's just superficial and my closets are a mess, but it's neat on the surface, and those are places I read and work. The kitchen? Yikes. He can bring a plate to the counter, but can't seem to get it in the dishwasher. Most of the time, I just let stuff pile up and he eventually cleans the kitchen (and does a much better job than I ever do). I'll have some friends over every month or so, and that forces us to clean up everything. The whole thing is a balance. I don't want to do his chores or tell him to pick up...I hate the mom role. I can close the door to the den and ignore it. I wouldn't put up with the anger all the time, though. I know abrupt anger is a part of ADD, but shouldn't happen all the time. I read a wonderful book called "Should I Leave," where the author basically says don't leave, try to change. Those of us who live with ADD partners usually read all the books, research the drugs, etc. and then we try to adjust, accomodate, make things more harmonious. I read once that ADD is a disorder of doing nothing. And sometimes that feels about right. MG can't seem to try out the medications or talk to others with ADD or even research it, the way he does everything else. Some of you have talked about your partners getting better at picking up, or breaking habits, or changing -- some days that's true, but really every day is differet. But that cup and plate still can't get in the dishwasher and my choice is to 1) say something about it to get him to do it, almost more trouble than it's worth, 2) do it myself 3) leave it undone. I always have to look at myself -- and before he moved in, I certainly didn't have a spotless house. We're just at different levels.

I want to thank everyone for their input. I'm sorry I'm not replying to everyone individually, but I'm taking it all in. This is all really helpful.

There are 2 main things that stand out for me in everyone's feedback. #1, he *has* asked for my help. And this has been a big issue for me right now because I have just spent the last 7 days of my life at his house spending all day, every day, organizing and packing his belongings (he is moving). And he has been so overwhelmed due to the fact that he scheduled a very tight moving timeframe, is renovating his house simultaneously before selling it, and has years of accumulated clutter and chaos in the house that i've been systematically going through. i've abandoned my life and my own responsibilities for 7 days to try to help him out of this mess. (i don't know if i'm really helping or enabling, but that's my own issue to try to figure out i guess!)

#2, i admit that i feel resistent to the idea that i need to accept that it is "true" that there is only one way to do things just because he might see it that way. i mean really, it's not true. there are always several ways to do everything. i feel especially resistent because when i express my preferred way of doing things (just a preference - clearly not "the only way") he goes into tirades about how i always think my way is right. but i don't my way is the only way or even the "right" way. there are always several ways to do everything, and everyone has their preferences. so i guess i would feel more open to this if he would just tell the *truth* - that he sees things in a certain way and cannot see other ways. it doesn't mean that there aren't other ways. it just means that he doesn't see them. and i can accept that as true and work with it.

It sounds like You'll make a good wife by informing yourself of his .......Gift;)

i'm personally the one in my 12 yr relationship that has adhd and i can tell you this: i've done all the research, the therapy, the medications, the altering of behavior..i've tried to make comprimises and i've devoured material to better cope with my adhd..sometimes i feel like its the other half that doesn't see the effort. although it is very easy to say that adhd can be summed up by saying its a disorder of doing nothing, that unforunately leaves very little room for the reality that we are very sensitive and feel (at least i do) stuck from doing anything at all that we really know and feel we must b/c there is just something preventing us from doing it. its like your own will and motivation is a ghost standing outside of your body, your relationships and your life and time passes you by and you're on the outside looking in on your life screaming and beat...WAIT I'M HERE I WANT TO LIVE A BETTER LIFE
i'm not trying to argue with any non adhd ppl in here, and i certainly see most definitely that darla is being kind in her concern about this whole process she and her man go through...
its hard for everyone involved.
b/c we just can't live in each other's head and figure that other side out perfectly, experience is going to be your best ally, and relationships with ppl like me i guess can be a slippery thing, its easy on the face of things to see how we are and feel like we are ungrateful slobs that don't care or refuse to change for the better...i can understand how it would be hard to get past that...i truly can.

thanks you just opened my eyes to thing I have done for yrs . Alwas made me feel stupid,now at lest I know that it is there and can watch for it and try and change it. Wish me luke lol