View Full Version : "ADHD or Not, Pills to Help in School" (NY Times)


namazu
10-09-12, 08:27 AM
Oh, dear...

I find both the content of the article, and its likely implications for the discourse surrounding ADHD meds, unsettling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

tudorose
10-09-12, 08:33 AM
hmmm disturbing on several levels

SquarePeg
10-09-12, 10:44 AM
I´m new to meds but didn´t realise that meds can help those that don´t have adhd, how is this so?

And this kind of story is what I have been brought up on in the UK and why I have always been so scared of meds.

Kasi
10-09-12, 10:49 AM
Incredibly disturbing. How is that in New York times?!

What's worse is that some of the parents are teaching their children that they have to be medicated because who they are is not acceptable. Rather than as a last resort to help them if they need it. One of the parents called his child "A little blah"?!

I'm all for medication, but especially for kids, I'd at least try to see if something else would work better. It's a class two drug ffs. I can understand that for some of these people it's cheaper, but is it really worth that if the kid internalizes what can be perceived as picking any other choice than wanting to try and spend a little time with them.

This is disturbing and downright unethical. They're abusing the DSM for their own purposes and thereby ruining the validity of a diagnosis because of it. That's incredibly depressing. I get where they're coming from, really, I do. I grew up in a low income family, though my mom never made it seem that way. It was rich in other ways, I wouldn't give it for anything.

However, if I'd been diagnosed with 'ADHD' by someone who didn't believe in it for the sole reason of someone wanting me to get better grades and judging me for being low income, my mother would never have accepted the diagnosis and walked away. Which is sort of a catch-22, because I actually DO have it, and it would have helped for a legitimate reason.

Holy hell, that's just... wow. The repercussions and back-lash off of that could be incredibly ugly.

ana futura
10-09-12, 02:20 PM
I hope this "doctor" loses his license. The abuse of stimulants is just the start- the sleep meds and risperdal are far scarier. Poor kids. I'd be surprised if these idiot parents weren't helping themselves to the stash.

ana futura
10-09-12, 02:24 PM
I´m new to meds but didn´t realise that meds can help those that don´t have adhd, how is this so?


It depends on your definition of "help". Stimulants will "sedate" most children, and make them more likely to pay attention to their parents and teachers. If that's the only benefit though, I'd say the stimulants aren't actually "helping" these kids at all, just turning them into mindless zombies.

Children who truly have ADHD receive far more benefit from meds beyond an improved ability to "focus and behave".

salleh
10-09-12, 02:40 PM
I find it very disturbing ......and the inplications for those of us who have ADHD, diagnosed by a pdoc.....well the mind boggles at what this kind of thinking miught do to our ability to contiune treatment ....

however, I do have sympathy for parents and children in the situations they are in .....42 children in a class is outrageous .....I used to be a sub in LAUnified, and 30 or more kids in a classroom is a situation that simply is nearly impossible to control .....nothing can get taught in a public school under those kinds of conditions .....I shudder to think of what those classrooms must be like ......

Abi
10-09-12, 04:32 PM
Signs that school, university the workplace and the rest of the capitalistic system is not a natural state of being for humans.

Retromancer
10-09-12, 04:51 PM
Fascinating to see how it's okay for middle class parents and their college-age children to essentially shop for an ADHD diagnosis but it's not okay for a candid practitioner to give a hand-up to struggling lower class primary school students. Dropping out of high school is far more catastrophic than not being able to attend the college of your dreams.

Luvmybully
10-09-12, 05:05 PM
isn't there some sort of law against a Dr openly admitting to prescribing drugs to a child with no legitimate diagnosis????

And retro I don't think it's OK for those middle class parents and college age kids either. It's pretty sad they would even think it's ok.

It is so frustrating that people like this Dr call adhd a "made up" thing! What the heck.....

My daughter who actually HAS adhd can't even stand the damn meds for it, they do help her at school but she hates the side effects so much she ONLY takes them if she has to.

Retromancer
10-09-12, 05:42 PM
There is no law about erring on the side of the best interests of the patient -- especially when that patient finds themselves in the midst of massive systemic failure.

The superintendent of one major school district in California, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, noted that diagnosis rates of A.D.H.D. have risen as sharply as school funding has declined.
“It’s scary to think that this is what we’ve come to; how not funding public education to meet the needs of all kids has led to this,” said the superintendent, referring to the use of stimulants in children without classic A.D.H.D. “I don’t know, but it could be happening right here. Maybe not as knowingly, but it could be a consequence of a doctor who sees a kid failing in overcrowded classes with 42 other kids and the frustrated parents asking what they can do. The doctor says, ‘Maybe it’s A.D.H.D., let’s give this a try.’ ”

isn't there some sort of law against a Dr openly admitting to prescribing drugs to a child with no legitimate diagnosis????

ana futura
10-09-12, 06:21 PM
I re-read this article, and I do wonder if Dr. Anderson's quotes are being taken out of context. The Rocaforts are IDIOTS, but I'm not so sure about my initial reaction of disgust towards Dr. Anderson. I think his statements are more nuanced than the article makes them seem. He did say he was surprised that the Rocaforts thought two of their children didn't have ADHD.

I think this is more a case of "Idiot parents + reporter with an agenda".

I think what Dr. Anderson was trying to say, but the article seems intent on burying, is that the kids he medicates DO have ADHD, but he would rather not medicate ANY child with ADHD. Financially, there is no choice but to medicate the kids, as sending them to an alternative school where meds would not be necessary isn't an option.

I do think an ideal world would be one where kids don't have to be medicated for their ADHD, and alternative schools like Montessori can permit an ADHD child to thrive without meds.

Reading his statements again, I see a doctor who is justifying the medication of low-income children WITH ADHD, not just any low-income child. And when he says that ADHD "doesn't exist", I'm assuming he's in the "the problem is society, not the person" camp, which I am a member of myself.

That said, I'm horrified by his willingness to prescribe Risperdal and Clonidine to the children, and I do think that is absolutely unethical.

BeBe24
10-09-12, 07:06 PM
Oh darn...I didn't realize it's already been posted (also posted it in the parenting forum) and of course I should have, but I also found it disturbing. Having recently found out about ADHD, it's scary to think that there are parents out there that advocate subjecting their children to the side effects of ADHD drugs and the stigma that goes along with it. And the father who considered his daughter 'blah' should seek therapy IMO.

pooka
10-09-12, 07:25 PM
This is all kinds of wrong. I feel really sorry for the kids who are being medicated to fix problems they don't even have, and for people like me who DO have these problems and are now being shown in a very poor light.

Kasi
10-09-12, 07:44 PM
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/canton-doctor-under-scrutiny-child-prescriptions/nSYgq/

This is actually a response of sorts from the Doctor mentioned in the original article. I'm starting to agree with Ana Futura, I think the journalist had hidden motives and wanted to do a sensationalist piece, at the possible price of a doctor, a disorder, and a family. I'm going to withhold judgement on Dr. Anderson until more information comes out.

Bethylphenidate
10-09-12, 07:54 PM
That reads like an (albeit badly written) article for The Onion.

“If they’re feeling positive, happy, socializing more, and it’s helping them, why wouldn’t you? Why not?”

One could say the same about putting a nip of vodka in their kids' lunchboxes....

Drewbacca
10-09-12, 08:22 PM
hmmm further evidence that being a medical doctor does not inherently qualify someone's opinion...

I'm glad that he will treat patients so long as he is paid, but I certainly wouldn't put myself in his care; not even for a less controversial diagnosis.

Flory
10-09-12, 08:41 PM
if everyone starts taking meds...we.are.f**ked......just when we thought we could be half as good as our NT counterparts, those sneaky bungh*les are going to raise the bar again...f**k it i say we all go on a med strike ;)....theres a whole line of trash cans outside waiting to be kicked over and some chaos to be caused at the 3 university campuses in my hometown :D

Sandy4957
10-09-12, 08:43 PM
In read this article today and I also found it disturbing.

Retro., I would much rather that we fund the schools so that they have the flexibility to educate a diverse student body. 42 kids in a class is not manageable at any age and between that and the standardized test processes, you can't help but have cookie cutter programming.

I think back to the teachers who made a difference in my life. They were all public school teachers (in a decidedly working-class town, at the time), and they had in common that their classrooms were zany, unpredictable, chaotic, and exciting. Those teachers made learning fun, but they were able to do so because they had small class sizes. Whenever I was stuck in a classroom with a more boring, "normal" teacher I did poorly.

Retromancer
10-10-12, 12:22 AM
Wouldn't we all want that? Sadly the fiscal forecast is for bipartisan austerity with periods of budgetary savagery.

Retro., I would much rather that we fund the schools so that they have the flexibility to educate a diverse student body. 42 kids in a class is not manageable at any age and between that and the standardized test processes, you can't help but have cookie cutter programming.

Drewbacca
10-10-12, 06:21 AM
Moderator Note: this conversation is inching its way into a political discussion.

Please keep the public policy analysis on the Q T (i.e. private messaging or the private-debates forum).

Abi
10-10-12, 02:41 PM
That reads like an (albeit badly written) article for The Onion.



One could say the same about putting a nip of vodka in their kids' lunchboxes....

Bwaaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaha

THanks, that gave me a good laugh :D

Retromancer
10-10-12, 04:20 PM
I like to put the wee ones to bed with a spoonful of this:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-SF1030.jpg?size=67&uid=2166da2a-dba0-42b5-b3e2-c9308a4b5e24

qanda
10-10-12, 09:20 PM
Just my opinion, but part of the problem is the extreme integration of kids. We do not have ability level reading groups or math groups in my daughters school. In my daughters elementary, it was 25 kids, some who really struggle academically & some who excel, and of lots of different learning styles, and then the kids who are diagnosed with all sorts of things like autism, adhd, who have behavior plans and EIP needs to follow. And almost ALL kids are integrated, minus the few who are extremely needy. I don't see this working. How can one teacher keep track of all the behavior charts, IEP needs, all while challenging each of their kids just enough but not little or making things too hard. And my daughters class sizes increase every year, and teaching assistant support has decreased. Although I've seen it myself and my daughter has just started to realize it and mention it to me - the high need kids are often so lost that the teaching assistants do the work for them. Great system.

NATIVE762
10-11-12, 06:27 PM
Saw this on the Colbert Report last night....
perscribing adderall because it's too expcensive to improve the learning enviroment....i guess


<TABLE style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f5f5f5; FONT: 11px arial; COLOR: #333" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=512 height=340><TBODY><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5" vAlign=middle><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 2px">The Colbert Report (http://www.colbertnation.com)</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; PADDING-TOP: 2px">Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 14px" vAlign=middle><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 1px; PADDING-TOP: 2px" colSpan=2>The Word - Meducation (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/420013/october-10-2012/the-word---meducation)</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #353535; HEIGHT: 14px" vAlign=middle><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: right; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; WIDTH: 512px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; OVERFLOW: hidden; PADDING-TOP: 2px" colSpan=2>www.colbertnation.com (http://www.colbertnation.com/)</TD></TR><TR vAlign=middle><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" colSpan=2><EMBED style="DISPLAY: block" height=288 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=512 src=http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:420013 bgcolor="#000000" allownetworking="all" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="autoPlay=false" allowFullscreen="true" wmode="window"></EMBED></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 18px" vAlign=middle><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" colSpan=2><TABLE style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" height="100%"><TBODY><TR vAlign=middle><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-TOP: 3px">Colbert Report Full Episodes (http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/)</TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-TOP: 3px">Political Humor & Satire Blog (http://www.indecisionforever.com/)</TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-TOP: 3px">Video Archive (http://www.colbertnation.com/video)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

.....................:scratch:...............

Flory
10-11-12, 06:39 PM
it makes me to ****** to even watch it >.<, chemical assault on children that don't need it...total bs

Drewbacca
10-11-12, 07:07 PM
Please see this thread (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133176) for context.

Flory
10-11-12, 07:14 PM
^thanks drew

Content ID
10-12-12, 03:28 AM
I honestly don't know what to say about this..... At one moment I'm pretty upset and at another confused.. Why though? The original News article reads out that he prescribes this to anyone that asks for it. While on the other hand a follow up says otherwise that he evaluates. Don't know if he's trying to save his behind or if he is actually thorough with patients.

Anyway, It's making us people with real ADHD problems look bad :( The media always loves portraying stories like this they know it will create drama which brings in views. I have nothing against bringing in views it's a way of them making money. I just have a problem with the story they chose.

I have an eerie feeling that the original post was extremely biased or done by an interviewer against Medication treatment for ADHD. Why would the interviewer target Adderall as it's main medication of question? If any re-search was done they would have seen there are more medications than just that.

Yes I do agree Adderall and other Stimulant medications are extremely powerful but when taken at proper dosages, they are incredibly safe, considering what they are made from. This argument could be brought up for pain pills like Vicodin, people abuse it just like Adderall each and every day but when properly taken it helps relieve your symptoms and sometimes make them non existent.

Sorry if I strayed from topic just needed to vent on this.

sarahsweets
10-12-12, 12:52 PM
I think Colbert except when he is being a Dick. In this instance he can f**k off.