ADHD is the shortened term used most often to describe Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. ADD refers to Attention Deficit Disorder, a subtype of ADHD. Upon diagnosis, a physician may classify ADHD more specifically as:

* Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulse Type
* Predominantly Inattentive Type (sometimes referred to simply as ADD)
* Combined Type

or the physician may not specify the disorder subtype.

Now to confuse everybody even more:

They are both technically called AD/HD.

It is confusing Tara. It took me quite some time and research to finally figure out what the problem was with the terminology. What I discovered is that books written as long ago as only a few years, were still referring to the disorder by its old names. And even though they are interchangeable with eachother, I tend to be a litle more detail oriented and specific in my knowledge. I have actually been thinking about posting a time-line, a chronology of the titles and the dates used for describing ADHD. What do you think? Worthy effort for this forum?

Actually I think it would be a great thread.

Personally I still like to refer to it as "ADD" but since I'm part of an AD/HD professionals group I'm trying to get in the habbit of using the term AD/HD.

I'm sure once I get used to AD/HD there will be another new term...lol

Actualy, the next planned revision to the DSM isnt until 2007, so your safe for a few more years!

That doesn't mean anything as far as I know it's still ADHD in the current DSM-IV not AD/HD. The DSM-V is supposed to be published in 2005 let's hope they don't change it before then...

Darnit Tara, were both wrong! My OCD kicked in and I had to check the internet for info. Here is what the American Psychiatric Association website said about the next revision date:

In anticipation of the fact that the next major revision of the DSM (i.e., DSM-V) will not appear until 2010 or later (i.e., at least 16 years after DSM-IV), a text revision of the DSM-IV called DSM-IV-TR was published in July 2000. The primary goal of the DSM-IV-TR was to maintain the currency of the DSM-IV text, which reflected the empirical literature up to 1992. Thus, most of the major changes in DSM-IV-TR were confined to the descriptive text. Changes were made to a handful of criteria sets in order to correct errors identified in DSM-IV. In addition, some of the diagnostic codes were changed to reflect updates to the ICD-9-CM coding system adopted by the U.S. Government.

The next edition of the DSM, DSM-V, is not scheduled for publication until 2010. The APA Division of Research manages the DSM revision process and does not expect to begin forming DSM development workgroups until 2005 or later. More information about the DSM revision process and the current activities in planning for the development of DSM-V are available on this site.

Thank you for your interest in the DSM. Your comments or questions may be emailed to DSM@psych.org or mailed to DSM Coordinator, American Psychiatric Association, Division of Research, 1000 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Va. 22209-3901. You can reach us by calling (888) 357-7924 or (202) 682-6800.

ADD.......... ATTENTION: Daydreamy,Lost in inner world. Does one thing at a time ACTIVITY LEVEL:Hypo-active,Works- thinks slowly, Can't start moving IMPULSIVITY:Quiet excessive impulsive,shifting of activites lifes directions
ADHD...........ATTENTION: Highly distracted,by outter stimulants,Does many things at once ACTIVITY LEVEL:
Hyperactive, Rushes through work, Can't stop moving IMPULSIVITY: Acting out of impulses without pre-thinking

Both share some core difficulties, though may be experienced differently. Neither is more chronic than the other, each person experiences it in a different way. Some struggle hard with certain difficulties, while others may not or not to the same extent.

ADD: work slowly, move slowly, underactive, and can be dreamy
ADHD: hyper, move quickly, tend to take on too many task at once, speedy
It is common to call them both ADD. Frome what I read its common to call them both ADD not AD/HD. ...................this it what it says:...........To confuse matters futher, when we refer to both groups, since they share many simular symptoms and experiences, it is common to call them both ADD.
Maybe thats changed I don't know. Just thought I would though that in.
:D

I may be going out on a limb here....but I would say a letter H!

lol

whats DSM??? I want to know!

The DSM IV or Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), is published by the American Psychiatric Association, and provide Diagnostic Criteria for the most common mental disorders including: description, diagnosis, treatment, and research findings.

OK, guys, what are the defining characteristicts of the REST of us combined types out there?

I say lets scrap the whole ad/hd add dsv..... ... .. etc.

We are quick witted, intelegent , creative, kind, and from what I see we are as a group a very "feeling" kind of people who dont want to hurt or offend anyone, all searching for deeper meaning and truth in life!!

Perhaps we should address the "brain dead" syndrome of the so called linear thinkers? (I mean this in a non judgmental way) Call it BDLTS - Brian Dead Linear Thinker Syndrome Its not there fault they cant think correctly- they have been taught that way!

We can give them speedy drugs to hype them up a notch or 2?


Eveyone has thier own gift and should be taught to use it rather than to try and force them to conform to some arbitrary "norm" of scociety.


O I have way too much to say and so little time to say it in!

Originally posted by diesel
Perhaps we should address the "brain dead" syndrome of the so called linear thinkers? (I mean this in a non judgmental way) Call it BDLTS - Brian Dead Linear Thinker Syndrome Its not there fault they cant think correctly- they have been taught that way!
Heh. Ever seen this article on Understanding Neurotypicality (http://home.att.net/~ascaris1/neurotypicality.html)? Yes, it's written from an autism-spectrum viewpoint, but it's still very similar to what you describe. :)

To put it in easier terms I can catch my ADD daughter,,,My ADHD son run's circles around me. lol

Even though I am not always hyper, my counselor said I am ADD hyperactive type. It's weird cause in the morning I am really sluggish but after noon or so I start to get really wound up. By bedtime I am usually bouncing off the walls! Is anyone else like this?

Yeah! I am the same way and I am ADHD not ADD. I have a heck of a time getting up and started in the morning and have an even harder time calming myself down enough in the evenings to actually go to sleep. Most of the time a do not do a very good job of it.

MM

Yep me too hence I work graveyard shift. Suits my lifestyle better and I'm never late and alway's more alert at this time.

Ya'll are doing great.dont let me interrupt.:)

-

diesel,
OK I'll go ahead and add the pic I was thinking of for an avatar... your cat looks similar to ours in this picture though he's almost solid black.

Ya'll are doing a great job! Keep it up.In the meantime, I'd look at the ongoing neuropsych research to see what they change the names to this time( and I believe they will). I suspect the HYperactive-Impulsive type will have some sort of Dysinhibition or Disorder of Self-Control label. It remains to be seen if Sluggish Cognitive Tempo ends up being the new Inattentive Type, but I wouldnt bet against Barkley.

Take care.

mctavish23

If you are ADD and you speak up you may be invited to the party, whereas if you are adhd, you are the party!
How come people with Parkinson's are not in the DSM with shaking disorder? hmmm....

If you are ADD and you speak up you may be invited to the party, whereas if you are adhd, you are the party!
How come people with Parkinson's are not in the DSM with shaking personality disorder? hmmm....

If you are ADD and you speak up you may be invited to the party, whereas if you are adhd, you are the party!
How come people with Parkinson's are not in the DSM with shaking personality disorder? hmmm....

That finally makes since, I kept thinking ADD meant Hyper like running around active - but that is just not me. I am a very slow thinker, not very quick with the wit on come backs. A lot of times humor just goes right over me. I don't relax very often to joke around.

I get a wee bit annoyed when looking for info on AD/HD and most of the info out there, or the info in the media make out that all people with AD/HD are hyper. I'm hypo and when I try and talk to somebody about it they're like "you don't have AD/HD, they run around and scream and stuff, you're the opposite". AAAARGGHH!!
Ooo ooo, this is my first post too so hi!!! :)

i'm not bouncing off ceilings and/or walls, and i don't have any problems with sitting still (at the movies, lectures, meetings etc), but i *do* have *serious* problems with impulse-control (although i have improved *enormously* thanks to concerta)...
this lack of impulse-control is what makes me have both add and adhd...

I say I am ADD because I am not hyperactive....

That and ADD is easier/faster to say and type :D

I say lets scrap the whole ad/hd add dsv..... ... .. etc.

We are quick witted, intelegent , creative, kind, and from what I see we are as a group a very "feeling" kind of people who dont want to hurt or offend anyone, all searching for deeper meaning and truth in life!!

Perhaps we should address the "brain dead" syndrome of the so called linear thinkers? (I mean this in a non judgmental way) Call it BDLTS - Brian Dead Linear Thinker Syndrome Its not there fault they cant think correctly- they have been taught that way!

We can give them speedy drugs to hype them up a notch or 2?


Eveyone has thier own gift and should be taught to use it rather than to try and force them to conform to some arbitrary "norm" of scociety.


O I have way too much to say and so little time to say it in!
I couldnt agree more!!!!!

Quick, easy answer?

ADD is "Attention Deficit Disorder" in the DSM-III
AD/HD is "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder" in the DSM-IV
ADHD is "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder" in the DSM-IV-TR

Long, boring answer?

ADD in the DSM-III required 8 of 14 points to be met, and was divided into:
ADD/H (Later renamed ADHD) - With Hyperactivity, more than 8 points
ADD/WO (Later renamed UADD) - Without Hyperactivity, more than 8 points
Borderline ADD - Many symptoms are demonstrated, but not with enough definity to qualify for diagnosis. 8-9 points, may or may not be strongly demonstrated.
Residual ADD - Same as above. Symptoms may have been demonstrated at some time, but are not present in enough force for diagnosis.

That didn't work too well, because Borderline and Residual were rarely treated or diagnosed. Many doctors didn't consider those "real" enough, because they weren't strongly present. Unfortunately, a problem was that it required the doctor to observe the patient. If the patient was having a good day, and not being hyperactive or impulsive, the doctor might not give a diagnosis simply because he didn't see it, and so it must only be occasional, and, therefore, borderline.

The DSM-IV changed this. It renamed the disorder AD/HD, citing that even former UADD diagnoses had a hyperactive tendency, normally in remission or adapted into the form of teeth clenching, fidgeting, etc. The greatest improvement, however, was in the division of the disorder into subtypes. They stood in the revision, which basically changed a few criteria slightly, and changed the abbreviation to just "ADHD," getting rid of that pesky /.

The divisions in the DSM-IV-TR are:

ADHD Combined Type - If both criteria for Inattentivity and Hyperactivity/Impulsivity are met for 6 months.
ADHD Predominantly Inattentive Type - If criterion for Inattentivity but not Hyperactivity/Impulsivity are met for 6 months.
ADHD Predominantly Hyperactive/Impulsive Type - If criterion for Hyperactivity/Impulsivity but not Inattentivity are met for 6 months.

This system is much better, also, because it required the symptoms to be present, but not necessarily at the immediate time of the interview. If you are having a good day now, they won't say "Oh you must be in remission." The criteria also prevent a lot of people from slipping through because they aren't Hyperactive/Impulsive.

Note that it uses the term "Predominantly" in there. It is very, very, very unlikely someone will get a diagnosis with only Inattentive, and even more unlikely that they'll get it with only Hyperactive/Impulsive. However, to meet criteria for Inattentive, you have to meet 6 or more of 9 criteria, and for H/I you have to meet 6 or more of 9 criteria (6 of which are for Hyperactivity, and 3 of which are for Impulsivity).

And now I have rambled way too much. Heh

KMiller,

Thanks for the long answer - we needed one.

The bottom line is that ADD is the old name for ADHD, but people commonly use "ADD" to mean inattentive type and ADHD to mean hyperactive type. There's really not much difference though, because inattentives just have hyperactive brains instead of hyperactive bodies.

Actually, Barkley looks at the Inattentive Type more as Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT) rather than it being a hyper brain. In fact, he sees it as a separate disorder. I personally liked the old ADD vs ADHD. It was a lot cleaner.

Hmm, I don't think my cognitive tempo is sluggish though I may appear sluggish, maybe others can relate

And if ADD is sluggish and slow, mentally, and ADHD is hyperactive...what about combined types like myself? I am inattentive, and I am hyperactive and impulsive. So if ADD is inattentive, and ADHD is hyperactive, am I ADD or ADHD?

I prefer ADD used to decribe the inattentive type. Where do we have the "H"? Well....:rolleyes: ...very rarely.

I would prefer it went back to the ADD/ADHD.

Just my not so humble opinion. My brain is NOT sluggish:D

And Keith's combined type would make him a mess if he is in H mode and sluggish at the same time:eek: LOL*

This is a fascinating topic (for me at least) and the "jury is still out" on exactly where Inattention fits in; either as a distinct and separate disorder or as a subtype of ADHD (along with Hyperactivity-Impulsivity).If you get a chance, please check out Barkley's 1997 book ADHD and the Nature of Self-Control. Roughly speaking, pages 22-28 discuss the issue in more detail. In terms of SCT, please keep in mind that that is just an idea for name. It's not etched in stone. In his book he also talks about
research that looks at inattention as two dimensional;" one corresponding to an inattentive-passive form and the other to a problem with persistence and distractibility."

This is a fascinating topic (for me at least) and the "jury is still out" on exactly where Inattention fits in; either as a distinct and separate disorder or as a subtype of ADHD (along with Hyperactivity-Impulsivity).If you get a chance, please check out Barkley's 1997 book ADHD and the Nature of Self-Control. Roughly speaking, pages 22-28 discuss the issue in more detail. In terms of SCT, please keep in mind that that is just an idea for name. It's not etched in stone. In his book he also talks about
research that looks at inattention as two dimensional;" one corresponding to an inattentive-passive form and the other to a problem with persistence and distractibility."
Fascinating topic for me, also. I'll give an opinon on what you have raised based on observation. My husband has "combined" ADHD, whereas mine is inattentive. I feel we have a different disorder. I cannot base this on any logic [and that annoys me:)]

I have noticed that if he is not "H", then he is far more inattentive than I, and if I want him to do something, the best way is for me to feed him chocolate [he used to think it was a treat until he wised up] and he tips into "H", and does what needs to be done! Voila`. If I have to do something, I will do it. I may procrastinate, but it gets done.

This morning Andrei woke up "H". I never wake up like that. I wanted to pour my tea over him! <joking>

Despite being "inattentive", I am far more organized than he, and appear to have the ability to form structure easier. He has almost matched me by now, and we meet comfortably in the middle, but he told me that this was hard work for him, but now he is almost there, he says his anxiety levels are almost gone.

So, I suppose I live with both sides. My gut instinct is they are different disorders.

You're right! Interesting topic:)

Thanks for the feedback. I think using chocolate as a reinforcer is outstanding, even if it's for the caffeine.:) That would be a great study...the impact of chocolate as a reinforcer. Lots of people would volunteer...lol. I'm Combined type as well. Personally, I think Inattention is a separate disorder and I'm curious to see how this all turns out.

LOL's.......he ended up calling it his dog chocs! It took no time at all for him to add chocolate+ask him to do something=H, and then it became need to do some chores=ask for chocolate=do chores. He likes the ability to go inti "H" via chocolate.

It is dark chocolate, about 50 grams, wait about 20-30 mins........and he's off. The dexamphetamine he takes 3x5mg per day, does NOT produce this effect.

On the other hand, and I am told this, he can come into my study, ask me if I want a cup of tea or coffee, and the only response he gets is "yes please". Hardly an answer! Apparently upon noticing I have a cup of something, I call out a loving "thank you....which can be up to an hour after he has given it to me and told me it is there.
This must have been very frustrating for him at times, but he has never complained.

We have worked around this by him touching me lightly on the shoulder and establishing eye contact. :) Inattention is then gone, and I make a conscious effort to focus totally on him.

Perhaps you should try the chocolate? :p

It is not the caffeine in chocolate that sends me Hyper.....

There is some other chemical ingredient that I am highly receptive too. It is a very definite shift in "state of mind" with me that is not associated with the "Pavlovs Dog Syndrome"... ie .....reinforcement.

If I eat any significent amount of dark chocolate...I have to go and do stuff....I cannot sit still and relax or read a book, watch TV etc.........and its absoutely hopeless for me, trying to sleep with any dark chocolate in my system.

So,.. how do I state this "its not the caffiene" with a reasonably high degree of confidence?.........

No amount of coffee drinking, has the same effect....and neither does my ADHD medication (dexamphetamine). I cannot drink to much coffee........it gives me the jitters and lack of sleeping ability. I never get the jitters from chocolate.

My beautiful wife Viktoria, is able to drink any amount of coffee with no ill effects, I cannot.

From my viewpoint, the Inattentive ADD, is in my opinion a separate disorder.


All my Love and kisses to Viktoria.........:)

Ummmm!.........Sweet Darling Wildcat of mine.....did you have to mention the words "dog chocs"....:p

Thanks for the feedback. I think using chocolate as a reinforcer is outstanding, even if it's for the caffeine. That would be a great study...the impact of chocolate as a reinforcer. Lots of people would volunteer...lol. I'm Combined type as well. Personally, I think Inattention is a separate disorder and I'm curious to see how this all turns out.

" one corresponding to an inattentive-passive form and the other to a problem with persistence and distractibility."

Hmm interesting notion. I would be the persistent, distractible type if that equates with overfocused type in Amen's scheme. I don't think of myself as sluggish at all though I may appear that way, I relate to the H in adHd because I have a hyper mind, so I'll stick with ADHD & thumb my nose at any sluggish designation.

Combined Type would of course be ADHD-CT Doh! I can certainly relate to the H part, I just don't display it visibly often but my thinking/writing reflects it. Also I don't feel slow-brained often. I rarely find that I'm unable to do things, just unwilling/unmotivated usually. OTOH I need a calculator for all but the most elementary arithmatic. I'd say I'm not sluggish because I'm not the type of person who can lay on a beach and sunbath. I have to figit around digging holes or hunting shells.

Sooo....If you're ADD, you pay attention to nothing and get nothing done.
If you're ADHD, you pay attention to everything and get nothing done.
:D :D :D :D

Guys, there never was an ADD vs. ADHD to go back to. ADD is the old term and ADHD is the new one. They were never used at the same time to mean two different things. People still commonly use ADD to mean inattentive and ADHD to mean hyperactive, but that's not the official way of doing it. It doesn't really matter in everyday conversation, but it can get confusing. But don't worry - the next DSM will probably change it again and make it even more confusing.

Actually, Barkley looks at the Inattentive Type more as Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT) rather than it being a hyper brain. In fact, he sees it as a separate disorder. I personally liked the old ADD vs ADHD. It was a lot cleaner.
Newbie here, laughing at self...30 years ago I coined a description for myself, which still applies today....

L.E.G.*

*Short for Low Energy Gal*

This could be purely neuroticism, but I find it irritating to be labeled something I'm not, in particular, ADHD. "ADD" encompasses all the subtypes, including those with hyperactivity. If I oversimplify this and say there are two 'main' subtypes, hyperactive and inattentive, ADID would make just as much (or little) sense as ADHD. If we're going to call all people with ADD, "ADHD," we might as well be consistent and start calling all birds "peacocks," and all insects "bumblebees."

Imposing additional traits on a group that does not have them is worse than not describing every single symptom in an acronym name.

Just a thought from a sleepy (maybe slightly grumpy :p ) inattentive type.

It is not the caffeine in chocolate that sends me Hyper.....

There is some other chemical ingredient that I am highly receptive too. It is a very definite shift in "state of mind" with me that is not associated with the "Pavlovs Dog Syndrome"... ie .....reinforcement.

If I eat any significent amount of dark chocolate...I have to go and do stuff....I cannot sit still and relax or read a book, watch TV etc.........and its absoutely hopeless for me, trying to sleep with any dark chocolate in my system.

So,.. how do I state this "its not the caffiene" with a reasonably high degree of confidence?.........

No amount of coffee drinking, has the same effect....and neither does my ADHD medication (dexamphetamine). I cannot drink to much coffee........it gives me the jitters and lack of sleeping ability. I never get the jitters from chocolate.

My beautiful wife Viktoria, is able to drink any amount of coffee with no ill effects, I cannot.

From my viewpoint, the Inattentive ADD, is in my opinion a separate disorder.


All my Love and kisses to Viktoria.........:)

Ummmm!.........Sweet Darling Wildcat of mine.....did you have to mention the words "dog chocs"....:p


chocolate contains dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter that is deficient in people with ADHD. coffee and other caffienated food/beverages do not have dopamine.

just found this link:

http://www.ldpride.net/addsub-types.htm

I've found that many people classify both as one. Which surprises the heck out of them when they get to know me, and realize just how 'energetic' I can be.
I'm just as innatentive as the ADD typology, except I'm not as invisible as they are about it. When I lose focus, someone always knows :)
Sometimes I wish I could just lose the 'H' factor. I've been trying forever to do that... quietly... LOL !

That thing covers everything, and depicts everybody as having some disorder or another.
The funny thing was that when I was married the first time, I actually made the effort to be married in a Catholic church. We had to go through a formality known as "Pre-Cana" which involved taking a multiple choice test that had questions entirely from the DSM III (IV wasn't created yet, ya know it was only a matter of time, though).
My then husband to be didn't know that, but I did. He kept asking 'Why are they asking me if I hear voices.. or if I am late everywhere I go?" I told him to answer 'Yes' to everything, otherwise they would be hurt and wouldn't allow us to be married. That answer alone should've gave him a clue of my 'abbynormal sense of humor' :D
We did get married. And divorced. But I never forgot the criteria involved with passing that test ! Good thing I knew the correct answers to most of those questions !
Nova

I have major problems with bouncing off any fixtures, and I can't sit still for more than about half an hour, so I really don't go to movies anymore, I rent them.
I have serious problems still with 'brakes' on my impulsiveness, and Adderall does help with that, but I've taken to not taking my 2nd dosage on the weekend evenings, so I can interact socially, and not talk a hundred miles an hour.
I'm not taking the XR, so I can control the dosage, and it's influence on me.
Forget about my being able to be quiet in class.. I am able to divert that into something in my favor though, because I've learned, at 40, to interrupt with references to the class material, as opposed to just being disruptive (never negative, just laughing outloud with others, or bringing up subjects that we have YET to study).
The interruption factor never, ever, went away. I have come to realize that if I don't 'say what I have to say' right then and there, I think I'll NEVER be able to, and I'll forget it in a minute or so. It's almost like I want to make sure I 'get it in', just in case.
Be glad you're 'H'-Less. Although I can't imagine myself being any other way :)
Nova

just found this link:

http://www.ldpride.net/addsub-types.htm

interesting. behaviorally, i am more like the ADD column, but cognitively like the ADHD.

my cognitive process is NOT slow, that is for sure. my thoughts race, but i don't have any problems with reading or math problems.

Mark,

I can't provide a timeline, but I know some of the previous labels for ADHD (other than the original ones, like lunatic or whacko). The first official label was "Morbid Defect of Moral Control". Then it was thought to be related to brain damage and labeled "Minimal Brain Dysfunction." It became "Attention Deficit Disorder" in 1980, and when they realized that hyperactivity was the same thing, they added it to make "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder" in 1994.

Now there's evidence that AD/HD may be related to Autism, which has already been connected to Ausperger's syndrome and some other disorders to make an "Autism spectrum." And there's been genetic research that points to something like 28 different behavior and developmental disorders being from a common genetic problem. So maybe we will all be lumped together as OBFD (One Big Fat Disorder) with lots of subtypes some day.

Not to intrude.... I just have to blurt out though. The most accurate and generally accepted method of identifying the types of adhd used by many Psychological Organization and the one that is gaining widespread acceptance by the medical (read : shrink) community seems to be the following as they are popping up everywhere. The straight ADD has been superseded by ADHD but most media/non adhd don't keep up
ADHD-I : Innatentive
ADHD-H : hyperactive/impulsive
ADHD-C : combined
ADHD-NOS : Which is for people whom prominent symptoms of inattention or hyperactivity-impulsivity that do not meet criteria for ADHD

The ldpride link or website distinguishes ADD from ADHD very well thank you. There is DEFINITELY a difference between the two and ADD fits me to a T!:rolleyes: From what I get out of it, ADD is the title and the "H" just ecompasses a different form of it.

RhapsodyInBlue said,

>On the other hand, and I am told this, he can come into my study, ask me if I want a cup of tea or coffee, and the only response he gets is "yes please".

Hahahaha. Yeah, when I am concentrating on something, due to repeated requests, I do leave a small part of my brain available for outside matters.

Its not enough brain to cope with complexity, although it is enough to keep people happy, generally.

But it tends to answer questions literally! There isn't enough brain spare for a subtle response. I've often 'come to' because the sound of hysterical laughter/slamming doors has disturbed my concentration, and annoyed me...

And if ADD is sluggish and slow, mentally, and ADHD is hyperactive...what about combined types like myself? I am inattentive, and I am hyperactive and impulsive. So if ADD is inattentive, and ADHD is hyperactive, am I ADD or ADHD?Confusing huh? I'm in the same boat. I actually read a descriptor in the book from the ADD Forums call Think Fast that really described my experience with the on again off again switch from slow to fast -- I don't have the book with me at the moment, but it had active to inactive traits on a graph cross referencing mental and physical activity levels. Just made a lot of sense and even explained how stimulation effected moving from one state to the other.

Scattered

I wouldn't worry about semantics. If you focus on doing whatever it is you need to work on or improve, then you'll be making progress (instead of worrying).:)

Personally I could really care less I someone calls me ADD or AD/HD or ADHD.
It's easier if they just call me crazy! haha
No in all seriousness.
Tara,
What about the combined type.
I mean I am dx as ADD. However, I do alot of the ADHD things too?
Is that what you are talking about? Combined type?
Or someone with a duel dx?
Hope

Stanley W. said it very well. Thanks.

I'm ADHD-C (Combined)

Here's the deal....not ALL of the Inattentive type fits the criteria for a possible qualitatively new disorder. If substantiated, the percentage would be estimated at 30 -50%.

The Combined type isn't the same as the proposed Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. It means the impairments are more widespread.

My opinion is that the fact that there's hyperactivity and impulsivity involved changes things.You're not "split down the middle."

Either way,ADHD-C is the worst of the bunch.

it's why there's a slash

its like this...

Attention Deficit and/or Hyperactive Disorder

and THEN you specify whether its actually inattentive or hyperactive or both. hence the slash and the mass confusion.

so to say AD/HD predominantly inattentive type, is a long way of saying ADD

mabe there should be...

ADD - (same as AD/HD inattentive)
AD/HD - predominantly hyperactive
ADHD* - combined type

*not the lack of a / in the 3rd type.

I find it all much simpler to explain to other people if you start out saying you have ADD...kinda like an umbrella term for all four subtypes, then explain to them that you actually get four specific subtypes typified by very different symptomatic presentations and then adding that of the four, that the hyperactive type is best known of the four, and often the other three are left undiagnosed because of this fact.

But this way of putting it may not be useful to the professional in the field, as it oversimplifies the whole thing.

I wouldn't worry about semantics. If you focus on doing whatever it is you need to work on or improve, then you'll be making progress (instead of worrying).:)Wonderful advice! Boy, don't I wish I had a clue on how to follow it. :rolleyes: My brand of AD/HD (combined type - I think) doesn't want to allow me to move on from things I don't understand or where all the pieces don't fit exactly right, so I worry it (and myself) endlessly (or maybe it's just a touch of OCPD).

Maybe the answer lies with the chocolate -- I've always "had" to have dark chocolate around -- I never felt quite right without it (except when I was pregnant and then I didn't like it -- of course for some reason my AD/HD symptoms are the least problematic when I'm pregnant). I appreciated Rhapsodie's explanation of her husband -- kind of made sense to me. I have an on/off switch too -- most of the time I look like a good candidate for Sluggish Cognitive Tempo, but then something interesting comes along and I'm hyper,impulsive and my brain kicks into high with crystal clear thinking and good verbal expression. Then you can't drag me away from what I've latched onto. Maybe chocolate does help throw the switch it the absence of something very mentally stimulating -- wonder what's in it, because it's definately not just the caffeine, because that alone doesn't do it. Maybe it's time for a sweet experiment!:D

*Scattered wanders off to find some after breakfast dark chocolate...*

What I can't understand is how people can eat dark chocolate. That stuff is gross! :D

What I can't understand is how people can eat dark chocolate. That stuff is gross! :DThe situation is more dire than we realized! :eek: Poor soul doesn't even like dark chocolate! :faint:



(Thanks for making me smile -- I needed that today!:D ).
Scattered

What about the combined type.
I mean I am dx as ADD. However, I do alot of the ADHD things too?
Is that what you are talking about? Combined type?
Or someone with a duel dx?



Reference site:

http://www.help4adhd.org/en/treatment/dsm


Because everyone shows signs of these behaviors at one time or another, the guidelines for determining whether a person has AD/HD are very specific. To be diagnosed with AD/HD, individuals must have six of the nine characteristics in either or both DSM-IV categories listed below.
In children and teenagers, the symptoms must be more frequent or severe compared to other children the same age. In adults, the symptoms must affect the ability to function in daily life and persist from childhood.
In addition, the behaviors must create significant difficulty in at least two areas of life, such as home, social settings, school, or work. Symptoms must be present for at least six months.
Criteria for the three primary subtypes are:


AD/HD - Inattentive Type
• Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
• Has difficulty sustaining attention.
• Does not appear to listen.
• Struggles to follow through on instructions.
• Has difficulty with organization.
• Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
• Loses things.
• Is easily distracted.
• Is forgetful in daily activities.


AD/HD - Hyperactive Type
• Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in chair.
• Has difficulty remaining seated.
• Runs about or climbs excessively.
• Difficulty engaging in activities quietly.
• Acts as if driven by a motor.
• Talks excessively.
• Blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
• Difficulty waiting or taking turns.
• Interrupts or intrudes upon others.


AD/HD - Combined Type
• Individual meets both sets of inattention and hyperactive/impulsive criteria.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


I think I was all impulsive but only a Tom boy so I was busy busy busy but not really into trouble as long as I didn't have to sit still.....I am just now begining to show a slight difference in some of my "symptoms" going "inward"...mental busier body getting tired late in day for busy so brain picks up where body left off.


I am still able to out run partner and internet connection...computer if they could only make them multi task as fast as my brain.HMmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

Reference site:

http://www.help4adhd.org/en/treatment/dsm

AD/HD - Hyperactive Type
• Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in chair.
• Has difficulty remaining seated.
• Runs about or climbs excessively.
• Difficulty engaging in activities quietly.
• Acts as if driven by a motor.
• Talks excessively.
• Blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
• Difficulty waiting or taking turns.
• Interrupts or intrudes upon others.

We should also age-normalize these. I mean, all but the most hyper adults can probably keep themselves from climbing on top of the table during the meeting. :D

Robert McTavish posted this a while back:


Here's some of the power point notes from Russ Barkley's March teleconference on ADHD in Adults:

This power point is titled: SYMPTOMS OF HYPERACTIVITY OFTEN MANIFEST DIFFERENTLY IN ADULTS

DSM-IV Symptom Domain ..... Common Adult Manifestation

Squirms & fidgets ..... Workaholic

Can't stay seated ..... Overscheduled/overwhelmed

Runs/ climbs excessively ..... Self-select active job

Can't work/play......Constant activity quietly

Talks excessively.....Talks excessivley

Barkley discusses research in his on line CEU course that indicates that:

The threshold needed to place an individual at the 93rd percentile for that person’s age group declined to four of nine inattention items and five of nine hyperactive–impulsive items for ages 17 to 29 years, then to four of nine on each list for the 30- to 49-year age group, then to three of nine on each list for those 50 years and older.

Scattered

We should also age-normalize these. I mean, all but the most hyper adults can probably keep themselves from climbing on top of the table during the meeting.



I still climb and I am 40 some thing......I climb a fence to the smoking area almost every day I work because I am too impatient to walk around to the employee exit, run my computerized name badge through the door slot, wait for the door to decide weather or not it is going to open, so I can get out and back in before my 15 minute break is over....medicated or not it is still faster and easier to climb the fence...


Gary hurt himself falling out of a tree about six weeks ago, he is more some thing than 40,

Are you saying we aren't even "normal" for ADDers.....that is sad (lol) :eek:


I was trying to give her an answer to her question which is
"ADD combined sub-type is a mix of hyper and inattentive symptoms not indicating two different disorders."

I do appreciate your age related response, I thought so much out side the box I may have indeed missed the box entirely!!!! I knew to include the hyper link for some reason or another.

It helps justhope is my sister. Unlike you guys she is really good and translating Tammy information pieces because she has been doing it all her life.

I once private messaged her to tell her I found the thread about NPD that is all. I failed to mention where the thread was give hyperlink ect..

she wrote back with "and do you happen to remember where you found it, section, hyperlink, ect....


Hey I remembered the hyperlink.... :D


Thanks for helping non-Tammy translators out!!!!

I still climb and I am 40 some thing...

Gary hurt himself falling out of a tree about six weeks ago, he is more some thing than 40,

Are you saying we aren't even "normal" for ADDers.....that is sad (lol) :eek:

No, I'd say you are "textbook" "classic" ADHD! :D

Not that you stop climbing -- you stop climbing when you're not supposed to, like during your company's board meeting. ;)

I still climb stuff myself; so does my son. It helps that I'm tall and fences in Japan are built for short people, so I can just kind of one-leg over most of the ones here.

I used to rock climb, and when my son gets a bit older I want to start taking him out with me. There are some pretty cool spots here in Okinawa. Nothing like California, but you take what you can get.

I read the post back a few pages, I definately fit the ADD profile, however;
I agree with the slow cognitive thing in-as-much when I remember doing tests in school, was nearly always the last one to finish, and timed tests, if I had more time I could have done much better. I think the slow part is being over-analytical, I'm not slow, just cautious and fighting distractions at the same time.
Same as when someone is giving me instruction, I am still processing the last sentence while the person drones on to the next sentence or topic, and it feels like I am trying to get up to speed to fully understand, while I am missing out on new info, which forces me to fill in the blanks.
That blank filling thing forces one to read people and forces one to become smarter in certain areas, like knowing how to do something without being taught. Because you already do it to cope with missed stuff.

BUT, when it comes to humourous comebacks my brain works at lightning speed, it's almost like I take a thought, flip it around, and something really funny comes out, strange?!
It's the same with troubleshooting in situations, I have a list in my head of possible problems and cures, like McGyver.
Patty and Selma would be proud.

Geez, funny, I am having a moment of mental clarity, Duh! Happened as the approaching evening late afternoon sun hit me.
I love it.

I'm consistant about not being consistant with my ADD behaviors :D

Scattered pointed out something in her earlier post that I forgot to mention.

ADHD research sets the "bar ( significance level)" at 1 1/2 Standard Deviations above the mean (as opposed to one SD).

This translates to the 93rd%.

"The significance level is the arbitrarily selected probability level for rejecting the null hypothesis; commonly .01 and point .05."

"The "null hypothesis" simply means predicting that an experiment will show no difference between conditions or no relationship between variables.

Statistical test are then applied to the results of the experiment to tyr to disprove the null hypothesis.

Testing requires a computation to determine the limits within which 2 groups may differ in their results (e.g.,and an experimental and a control group) even though if the experiments were often repeated or the control groups were larger, no difference would be found.

The probability of the obtained difference being found if no true difference existed is commonly expressed as a P value (e.g., P of less than .05 that the null hypothesis is true)."

Reference : American Psychiatric Glossary ( Seventh Edition ) by the American Psychiatric Press, Inc.,pages 267 and 270.

What that means is that 93 times out of a hundred these data accurately separate the variable in question, from random chance.

This is but one reason why the science behind ADHD is based upoon research and not conjecture.

It's also why I'm not going to argue about something thats a proven fact; the need for research with respect to ADHD.

This is the essence of Applied Psychology.

McTavish, thanks for explaining the one and a half standard deviations -- I was wondering why they picked the 93rd percentile. I was reading in Brown's book Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults last night that while the number of symptoms may drop, the impact of those symptoms is often more severe when applied to an adult with adult type responsibilities -- driving, parenting, etc. and that the impact of those impairments has to be figured into the equation as well.

Scattered

McTavish,

Any idea what the rationale is behind reducing alpha (it'd be .035 in a 2-tailed test) or are we talking about an increase (one-tailed at .07)?

Who is being held to this standard and who was the driving force in implementing the change? I've seen journal editors start trends like additional effect size measurements, but it just seems odd to alter an accepted decision criteria.

I work in more basic, theoretical research, but applied can't be all that different, can it?

I don't know how or exactly when the trend started.

My impression is that it was in response to the media and other (irrational) sources of criticism.

Again, I'm speculating here, but I got the distinct impression that the idea was one way of showing the legitimacy of the research, as well as taking it to a higher level of significance.

I'm strictly guessing though.

Russ has made a couple of comments in passing on the subject, which helped form the basis for my (personal ) opinion.

It's an excellent question that I've really never looked at in this way.

I'll give you a clue on how old I am by saying that when I was in grad school, we did stat compulations by hand...lol.

The statistical methods would be the same.

When I read your question I stopped and thought about it for a second and then smiled.

I wouldn't want to do it that way if I had to defend it in front of a committee; assuming they'd let me...lol.

My best guess on which one they'd use, would be to pick the more complicated of the 2 choices.

Thanks for the question.:)

My best guess on which one they'd use, would be to pick the more complicated of the 2 choices.
:)
Very funny McT! LOL.

Because everyone shows signs of these behaviors at one time or another, the guidelines for determining whether a person has AD/HD are very specific. To be diagnosed with AD/HD, individuals must have six of the nine characteristics in either or both DSM-IV categories listed below.
Barkley discusses research in his on line CEU course that indicates that:

The threshold needed to place an individual at the 93rd percentile for that person’s age group declined to four of nine inattention items and five of nine hyperactive–impulsive items for ages 17 to 29 years, then to four of nine on each list for the 30- to 49-year age group, then to three of nine on each list for those 50 years and older.
McTavish,
Any idea what the rationale is behind reducing alpha (it'd be .035 in a 2-tailed test) or are we talking about an increase (one-tailed at .07)?
Again, I'm speculating here, but I got the distinct impression that the idea was one way of showing the legitimacy of the research, as well as taking it to a higher level of significance.

I'm strictly guessing though.


I feel there's theres two separate issues being considered.

Meadd and Scattered write about diagnostic criteria.

McT and BarbyMa seem to be writing about research hypothesis testing.

Correct me if I misunderstood.

For a diagnostic criteria, the 93, 95 or 99% cutpoint would separate the bulk of a population distribution. A person conducting a diagnosis would want to be able to say with confidence, only 1% or 5% or 7% of people in the population are likely to have this assortment of extreme traits (one extreme tail of the population).

These criteria are based on scales that have been extensively tested, I assume. The cut-point may be arbitrary, or it may be based on the way the different traits in the scales actually cluster among the populations tested.

The criteria change with increasing age, because the population frequencies of traits diminish with age.

Diagnosis then feeds into sensitivity and specificity of the test in a given population. How many people with ADHD can you identify correctly among those who truely have ADHD (sensitivity) vs. how many people without ADHD are identified as not having ADHD (specificity).

This is where we plunge into mass-media reports of over-diagnosis (low specificity), or advocate claims that ADHD is under-diagnosed (low sensitivity).

Diagnostic criteria are also important in research (how would you know if you really have a group with ADHD and a group without), but hypothesis testing is a different species entirely.

Perhaps a statistical speciation event.;)

Stan,

Very well stated.

I got sidetracked in reading about the CEU remark and it suddenly hit me that I'd been wanting to mention this in more detail.

Anyway, my fault :)

One thing that can be said though in connecting the points, is that the diagnostic criteria are obviously emprically derived using the same format.

Believe me, I seriously don't want to discuss stats if I can help it..lol.

I feel there's theres two separate issues being considered.

....

Diagnostic criteria are also important in research (how would you know if you really have a group with ADHD and a group without), but hypothesis testing is a different species entirely.
Well stated, Stanzen. I obviously misunderstood the discussion.

93rd percentile would actually be much LESS conservative for hypothesis testing, as that would definitely raise the alpha level to an unacceptable .07 (a 7% probability the results were due to chance).

I certainly wouldn't want my doctor to be so tight-fisted with my diagnosis.


Perhaps a statistical speciation event.;) Perhaps the Numerologists created a test to identify Indigo Children.;)


Believe me, I seriously don't want to discuss stats if I can help it..lol. Noted. I'll try to stay away from such nonsense; I know how much you "clinical types";) hate that stuff!

Just for the record for anyone reading this, quantitative is my specialty (yes, I know I said I was cognitive; that's my content area, but I specialize in methods), so feel free to ask the stats questions. I can probably answer those much better than the cog questions!

I didn't actually get tested for this until Febuary 28th. I have ADHD - Combined Type. The evaluater tested me with and Evaluation Form for DSM-IV and Brown ADD Scales.

So yeah...I dunno exactly what all that means, but yeah. Basically I've gone 20 years of my life without knowing that I have ADHD lol.

ADD: work slowly, move slowly, underactive, and can be dreamy
ADHD: hyper, move quickly, tend to take on too many task at once, speedy


Thank you for that. I have one of each. My oldest is slow to do EVERYTHING. I get so frustrated. Takes him 5 minutes to do a simple 1 minute task.

My other is quick, quick, quick! 2 minute showers, 2 minute meals.

On top of these two very different AD(H)D children, I have two others without it. So I get to come up with three, possibly four different ways to handle the same problem.

Add in a husband with ADD (also very slow at things) and other disorders and I'm going nuts! :faint:

My Son is ADD and is 28, he can not seem to hold a job and is now faced with either going to drug treatment programs or jail. I'm not sure either is the answer? He just can't seem to make good life decisions. But, the way you all have described yourselves, sounds like him. Slow thinking, urns to be around others, by evening he
can't go to sleep easily. He has been steeling from my families buisness lately, first time to go to vegas with girlfriend, second to pay off gambling debt. Has just got a job as a bartender, but will probably loose it due to jail or treatment. I don't know what to do for him?