Does it actully exsist or is it that 95 % of the population thinks linear and 5 % thinks (Out of the Box) as I call it, and it is just another form of prejuduce.

Does the fact that I think and react different to various stimuli than the other 95 % of the population qualify me to be labled as "Having ADD"

That to me is a wrong and as crewl as calling a Black or Coloured person a "******" ( I hate that word )


When I was a kid way up here in Canada I used to watch the USA on TV and saw all the predudisum against Black Folk and couldn't understand why one colour of human being thought they were better than another colour.

That has come a long long way since I was a kid ( I still dont think it is perfect by any means) Acctully I think it has just shifted out to cover a wider array of groups of people. Now there is ( hate, fear, crewlity, and prejuduse) equally for a wide variety of groups and people.

Are we just another of these groups that the vast majority of the population doesn't understand so it is easier to label us as being something (other than what they are )

Going back to my " Hippy Commune " post of a few days ago, and I realise that this is a pipe dream and all, but I would love to live in a world, town, community (call it what you may) of pure ADD intellegence, commeradery and of course sillyness and forgetfullnes.

Speaking for myself, here in that " A lot of our inablity to focus, our forgetfullness, our lack of organization, stems from the fact that we ( I ) have to exsist in there world, a world of LINEAR THINKERS.!!!!

I have had many jobs and been self employed many times also and yes I admit it would be nice to retire with a pension and a healthy bank account as a lot of the LINEAR THINKERS will do, But in reading a lot about people who have nearly died or came back from being dead for a few moments, and to read about how there last thoughts in life were like a very fast picture show of all there experences in life, that should keep me alive about 10 seconds longer than a linear thinker as it will take that much longer to process all the various job and people experences I have had compared to their ( I got a job when I got out of school and have been here ever since mentality)

I was in NEW YORK once and asked at a gas station for directions and the reasonably bright seaming individual told me in all seriousness, that he had never been out of about a 10 mile radius of where he lived in NEW YORK . I thought he was kidding me and he got very upset that I didnt belive him.

I can't fathom an existance like that that is so limited to your suronding stimuli.

I am babbling on my keyboard I see and running off at the fingers with typed diearea so I will end this by once again stating

I do not "Have ADD" Attention Deficit Disorder

" It is not a disease or a disability "

" I AM ADD " ADDaptable Directed Determined

Garry Lawton

ADDed ADDvantageous

well i f*****g hate bein add and at times have a lot of trouble with it.. the meds help a bit but i am just so tired.. I guess some people deal with it better n others.

hey caplane

I can relate to what you are saying but I have no choice

I am what I am

I deal with it the best way I have figured out how and that is to always find the positive side to everything in life

Its tough to do sometimes and sometimes I just want to run away and hide and cry but I have found thaT DOESNT WORK so I had to try something else.

So far this is working very well

I don't think it matters if it exsists or not. There are other people out there that know what it's like in my head and we can find eachother by naming it. Idon't know about you but ADD head is a lonely place sometimes and the last thing I care about is wether or not I'm selling out by admitting the possibility of a disability.

I wouldn't want to be any other way. I'll never be the type of girl that feels better after I buy myself a new skirt or get a facial. Sure those things are nice but I need a little more substance than "The Divine Secrets Of The Ya Ya Sisterhood" or all the wack music from the Mtv bands coming out now.
I like that my journey has the ability to see the darkness so the contrast of my love is raw and meaningful. If that dark side wasn't there Idon't think my children would be close to me. I just can't fake it.
What am I talking about? I lost it

Garrry,

Have you read any of Thom Hartmann books? If not I think you would really like them.

I think ADD exists. Those of us with ADD have brains that work differently than those with out ADD. We have both positive and negative differences.

Since the world is pretty much run by non-ADD people it makes it quite hard for many of us to fit in to it. In many cases our differences can be a disabilty to us.

Seriously

Sometimes I go back and read something I wrote and it sounds so rediculous. Soapbox much?

TARA hi
I just wanted to say that I was reading, "Think Fast! The ADD Experience" and I'm really enjoying it.

Forgive me if I'm writing and it starts not making sense. I have it worked out pretty well in my head but sometime I just can't get a point across. Each sentence might have a whole new meaning and my vocabulary (to me) is limited. I always forget my point by the end of the sentence anyway. What was I talking about? haha

Thats the beauty of this place as you can write what ever you want and go back and review it

sometimes your veiw changes drasticly based on what you learn from other posts and reading

I am still of the oppinion that ADD is just a name given by linear thinkers to us who are different than them as they dont know how to deal with us and we scare them

Sometimes we are our own worse enemies.

Having ADD and being labeled so isn't a major problem. The problem happens when people who do not undestand the label, treat you with less respect than those without the label.

Most people have insecurities, and as such, if they can put a label on someone they are able to move themselves up the self-esteem aldder one more wrung. Is there any honesty in what they do..no..but for them it does work.

The challenge for us minority, is to understand that just as we have the label add/adhd...the rest have the label non add/adhd.

One of the greatest things I have found here is that we ADD people can just talk and feedback to each other without fear when we are in ADD mode. I like Sara's post and that she can just be herself and that all on this forum understand the way she thinks, even though 95% of thee world may not.

Garry, I also used to wonder why when people are labelled as black that that meant somethang bad. I have and always will judge people on their actions, and even then, I try to limit my judjements to the intent of the action.

Action without malice=no judjement...action with malice=distate for the malice and bad judgement.

In a lot of ways, even though the label fits me, I don't feel that I am a member of some exclusive group that needs to be feared. I belong to lots of groups...the overweight, the ADD, the sleep-to-much, the self-employed, the colledge drop-out, the high IQ....

What I don't do is let other people's labels decide on my actions. So what if I am ADD.It's not contagious, it won't turn me into a axe-murderer, won't casue me road-rage, wont make me unsafe to the public.

I'm happy to be different in some ways, and the same in some ways. There will always be those who judge, and my greatest achievement(not quite perfect though) is in not judging those in return. When someone says saomething I don't like...I look behind the woods for their reason and motivation. Sadly, more aften than not, it is their fears that they are projecting, not my weakness's.

I sometimes feel I pity the world, for the more we judge others, the poorer the people we are for it. Would it not be great if all people with what I call special needs, got both the help they needed, and the social acceptance that it is OK to have different needs.

I could go on...a hyperfocus subject..lol

Sleepz.

What I don't do is let other people's labels decide on my actions. So what if I am ADD.It's not contagious, it won't turn me into a axe-murderer, won't casue me road-rage, wont make me unsafe to the public.

Gary, Sleepz - I think we're both coming at the same thing from different perspectives. Check out my post in the Hunter/Farmer thread ( http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13178#post13178 ).

The point I was trying to make (and probably failed) is that the traits of ADD are in themselves positive and we shouldn't be trying to drug them out of existance.

The difficulties that we experience as ADDers are primarily caused by the expectations of the larger society. Left to our own devices most ADDers wouldn't starve to death or engage in anti-social behaviour (some may but no greater percentage than the rest). The problem is that (western) society expects each of us to attain and maintain some level of "success" (the individual measurements are varied). Unfortunately the definition of that success and the methods to attain it are tilted against us. The tolerances have become so narrow that anyone falling outside the boundaries is now labeled deffective. After all is ADD a disorder? Really? A disorder, such as diabetes? Without insulin a diabetic may die, without Ritalin (etc.) an ADDer may not learn as well, or may not produce as much but he or she will not die.

In fact, if society really wanted to help itself, the best approach would be to have people helping people - but that is HARD. So we invented a "pill". Like we invent a "pill" for everything else that is "hard": self-esteem, libido, body shape, chollesterol etc. These problems can be solved through love, nutrition and exercise but! - that is hard.

So to make it easy: those that don't think in linear terms and are easily distracted - have a disorder and can be treated with - a pill.

Now I'm not advocating that people get off their meds. I am saying that if we (you, me and the rest of the ADDers) choose to try to do the hard thing; such as proper nutrition, self-help peer groups, exercise and (the thing I have the most difficulty with) self-acceptance then perhaps society will stop thinking of us as "impaired" and "defective". And if we work very hard, we can even show that ADDers are good... just... as... we... are; no pill required.

This is a fresh idea for me. I may have to change my views after a while (that's the joy of being a "hunter" we are always prepared to change) if they prove meritless, but I have a feeling I'm onto something. How can a society, where compromise and creativity are the rule rather than the exception, be inferior to the one we find ourselves in now?

Thanks, you three, for bringing my attention back to this thread - it was one I was excited about before, but had forgotten about (or rather shelved for the day when I sit down and take the time to make a proper contribution, ha ha ha, I'm always ready to invent new commitments to procrastinate about).

When I first read the thread, Sara's contribution seemed so good and to say it so well (and without the intellectual fuss that I rarely manage to avoid) - funny that you were worried about its coherence, Sara! - that I felt I'd need to collect my thoughts before being able to contribute anything useful.

But... my mood (among other things) is all wrong to do more than just say that for now... Think it's because I know that the - for me - 'central' issues (why have I got back into the habit of putting quote marks round everything?) of ADD are here.

In any case (must just get something out to give my post some chance of being worth reading), I think to get a clear view of ADD as a (socio-medical) phenomenon, one should accept the arbitrariness (or at least non-necessity) of the whole idea of diagnosis, and remember that there are specific - and contingent (non-necessary again) - reasons for the medical approach to these kind of problems - including (in particular) the diagnosis/label and the prescription of medication. It's a cliche that everyone is individual, but a true one - and I should think it's as true or almost as true that each person has their own brain chemistry (at some level - obviously at the general level we have an awful lot in common!). The 'existence' of ADD follows for me from the overwhelming persuasiveness of a whole number of factors going together - I've discovered it for myself here, by the fact that people who share a number of my characteristics and opinions (whichever ones bring us here, say) share a whole load of others too. To deny its existence would be perfectly possible, merely a little perverse in view of how natural a grouping of people/symptoms/modes of being or whatever it seems to be. Until recently I didn't know about it, and the idea itself is only a few decades old ie pretty young culturally speaking. Merely as a medical concept I would not have respected it hugely - as I have already suggested, medical labels or diagnoses are based on coherent groupings of symptoms (and/or perceived causes) with standardised treatments - they are designed to serve medical ends (in principle perfectly valid in themselves of course), not to enlighten human beings' perceptions of or attitudes to each other.

I think I'm losing my train of thought, but I'm sure I've already ranted on long enough anyway. But what you said about not letting other people's labels decide on your actions (or what they expect of you) sometimes seems so self-evident it's crazy one should have to say it, but sadly one does. Anyone who knows you have been diagnosed 'ADD' (or anything else) should realize that if they don't know what that is, then they really can't know what it says about you (ie they should realize that it tells them nothing about you) - the fact that their attitude can nonetheless change just knowing this (that you have a diagnosis, and from a shrink too) shows what a collective 'complex' there is...

I'd have liked to comment more on positive directions, eg as expressed in your 'manifesto' above, why. Maybe another day...

I totally think that ADD is just another way of learning/thinking/percieving the world. But right now there are so few of us compared to the linear thinkers so we have to put up with labels and predjudice. As someone already mentioned in a way having a name for it is nice because it gives all of us a way to find each other. No worries one day WE WILL RULE THE WORLD!!!!! Then we can lable the linear thinkers as having a disorder, we can make them feel bad when they do things differently then the rest of us.... but I believe one of the differences between us and them is that when our time to rule comes we wont lable them and make them feel like they are less than us. Instead we will just tell them they think differently and theres nothing wrong with that. Why would we be so nice to them?? Well.... because we know how it feels to be labled and we are also much more caring & compasionate than they are...therefore we know better than to make them feel bad just for being different.

Originally posted by LiLMissADDitude
But right now there are so few of us compared to the linear thinkers so we have to put up with labels and predjudice.

Not so few as you might think... there are some people who believe that as many as 20% of North American society qualifies in some way... some milder than others, obviously.

One other thing: ADD people are having more kids than non-ADD people, so the imbalance will lessen as time goes by. The incidence of teenage pregnancy amongst ADD girls (and presumably boys who are the fathers) is much higher according to Dr. Amen.

Why,

Don't get me started on hunter/famer again or I'll set a new record for the length of a post!!

ADD to me is a description...2/ To convey an idea or impression of; characterize

I like ADD as being a description. It is neither positive or negative; derogatory or complimentary. It's just a way of identifying traits we here have in common. Just like a hobby club except we didn't have a choice in joining, but we do have some choice in deciding the fate of our club. Anyone remember the movie breakfast club?

As Lilmis said...it is a way that we can find each other.

And as Paul pointed out, it's not as uncommon as many people believe. My doc was saying that it may also be closer to 1 to 1 males to females. The difference emerging is that girls tend to be innatentive and are not getting diagnosed as much whereas the majority of hyper boys do get diagnosed. I will be interested to see how that theory pans out. (I could go into that more, but I digress).

This thread and the hunter thread really have got me thinking on this whole ADD and where can I go with it...and I love it!!!!

Sleepz.

I think ADD is a name corresponding to a description - and you can take it or leave it. The stakes are raised a bit if you have had access to medication through an ADD diagnosis and found that medication helps you, but that's all...

[comment added later: I don't want to be misunderstood here - I just wanted to emphasize - without rambling as much as I usually do - the fact that a term - like ADD - should be for convenience (expressive power) and not be a strait-jacket (severe metaphor in this context!). Personally, I think ADD is a great and useful concept, not least because it has helped us find each other, as LilMissAttitude said. J]

To me, The way the ADD mind is as different as a Mind of a right hander vs a left hander... its just another way of thought. An ADD mind uses multiple thoughts to think about instead of one. We gain problem solving but loose focusing. It seems if you weigh the pros and the cons of a "normal" mind things balance, so does an ADD mind. Now tell me, would you call a left hander "abnormal" or "a problem" so why call ADD that?!
If you do have problems with your ADD, eventually you will find answers to how your brain works. I think key is learning to use what you got.

I have gone back and forth on this issue many times, but right now I believe that ADD does exist. Like many of you have already said- it is more about the way your brain works than a disability.

I have always had the feeling that I am different. If nothing else, at least I have a name for it.

The trouble is convincing other people that it exists. It's hard to explain to people that "I am this way because . . . " without them thinking that you are just making excuses. Unfortunately, I find that saying nothing is better. There are very few people around me that know I have ADD.

Diane

I believe that ADD does exist, although I have spent most of my life trying to believe that it didn't. Or rather that it didn't change things. I had a boyfriend once tell me that he didn't believe in ADD. And even though I hadn't fully accepted what it meant to be ADD, it still hurt. It felt like he didn't believe in a part of me because I have learned (and really always felt this way) that ADD IS a part of me. Sometimes for me ADD is good. For instance, it gives me more creativity than alot, which will help me in obtaining my Graphics Design diploma. Other times its bad, like trying to stay organized or talking to much. I wouldn't say it is a disability, because you can find just as many good things about it as bad. But I wouldn't say that it was a blessing either. I have been frusterated too many times to say that. I think its both and its just another twist on our lives that other people may not have. I don't put down using meds to help manage it. I don't think its surpressing anything (not trying to get anybody mad here), I think it is a way of making sure that the good or the bad doesn't get out of control, and lets us also focus on not just the "fun stuff," but the responsibilities too. Right now I am not on meds, but as soon as I can afford to go the Doc, he/she might put me on them. I have no problem with that.

I think everything has to have a balance. ADD has that balance..the good vs. bad. And I am also glad that there are ppl around me that DON'T have ADD. The ppl who look down upon us because we have ADD are wrong. Just as it is to look down on anybody for any reason that they are different, from a disability all the way down to eye color. Yes, many non-ADDers don't understand what we deal with, but do we understand what other ppl go through? How bout somebody who wasn't born with good looks, or even somebody who has a physical disability such as being deaf or blind, or paralized. Okay so those are noticable, but we still don't understand how they feel. Do we understand the "artists" of the world who are constantly put down because they need to get a "real job." Or the ppl who are born in wealth, but are not happy cuz the "family business" isnt what they want. How many of us feel for them? Anybody who thinks, acts or looks different then the majority is going to feel like the majority doesn't understand. They are right. The majority doesn't understand, but that doesn't mean they are all prejudice about it. There are many out there who haven't really been around it. They can say they sympathize and probly have good intentions, but dont really understand how to because they do think differently. We basically are talking greek to them. They try but end up saying the wrong thing. But usually the ppl who outwardly sympathize and really do understand it are also the ones who have really seen the struggles that we have gone through. Not just at a glance, but the day to day and minute to minute stuff. But it is also the ppl who really love and know you. For me its my brother...but for you, maybe your wife/husband, mother or father, grandparent, best friend...whoever. You know what I am talking about. How many ppl have we really shared that much about our lives so that they CAN understand how our mind operates?

I for one have a hard time staying organized, focused and finish what I start. I thank God that I do have somebody around like my brother who doesn't have ADD. Because he is my anchor. He helps remind me to finish, helps me to focus and keeps me organized because they are some of his strong points. Without him I really would be lost. I am glad there are non-ADDers in this world to keep the world running smoothly( or as much as it can be anyway) so that I can think my own way, get things done on my own time, and have the time I need to get my ideas out...and not have to worry if I finish them or not. I know the ones that need getting done, my non-ADDer friends will help remind me, and the ones that don't...well maybe tomorrow.

I truly believe this world is about balance. And that we have to have "out of the box" thinkers as much as "in the box" thinkers. I don't believe that society is evil for not understanding, its not intentional. And I do believe there is such a thing and that I have ADD. There will always be those ppl who refuse to understand or tell me that I am just lazy. At the same time there will always be those ppl who will find fault in anybody cuz they are too busy looking for the negative in life. Let them. I am not going to let them get to me because in my head I am thinking about a thousand different things I could do to get back at them...while they are thinking of the one or two put downs they have for me Course...lucky for them...I'll never get around to it. ;)

Tina

Wow, all the time I've been sitting here browsing, half-thinking of replying to this or that, but not doing... you've been writing that!

It's good to be reminded that even my "you can take it or leave it [the concept of ADD]", which was supposed to be colourless and logical, carries a subjective bias - the fact that I didn't know about ADD until a month ago, and it's still something which no one I know (and very few people in the country where I live or where I'm from) has even heard of. I'm by no means sure that I will get diagnosed (for various reasons - I am living in Germany, not Canada, say), and if I do, I go with the common-sense wisdom (expressed by others on this forum) that it would probably be unwise to tell my employer about it. On the other hand, I am quite sure that I have ADD, and find it explains a huge amount about my life from my earliest memories until now (I'm 35).

You probably have a more mature attitude to ADD, having lived with the idea of it for years - so the idea of it being dispensable is at best frivolous and at worst insulting or hurtful (in someone you would hope would understand you). I'm still coming to grips with it - and haven't decided yet to what extent I want to submit to being 'objectively' (medically) labelled.

You probably have a more mature attitude to ADD, having lived with the idea of it for years - so the idea of it being dispensable is at best frivolous and at worst insulting or hurtful (in someone you would hope would understand you). I'm still coming to grips with it - and haven't decided yet to what extent I want to submit to being 'objectively' (medically) labelled.


Check this post Jonathan

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1857


I agree with you with the not sure about " Not sure about being medically Labeled"

With the exception of I like having it in the background " the fact that I have been Labeled"

To me its like having a drivers licence and not driving a car


Its there if and when I need it but there is nothing that says I have to use it.

Its like putting katchup on french fries . Its easier to put more on than it is to take it away.

For me its easier to have been offically diagnosed and labelled then it is to have to run around and get an official diagnose down the road if I ever need it

My opinion on the subject

Thanks for your response, Garry. I had read that thread already, but it's good to read it again, and introspect a little more to what extent it applies to me (where I am on the 'stages' ladder). I wouldn't say I am in denial - I certainly accept that I am an ADDer - but I suppose I am definitely at your stage 4 (bare acceptance) rather than stage 5 (knowing what to do about it). I can see that getting diagnosed might seem to belong to stage 4, but I tend to think of it as a stage 5 thing.

I have no problem with the idea of having (or being) ADD - like many here, I think I feel relief at there being a name for this state of being I know so well. On the other hand, diagnosis is an awkward issue: it costs money; it probably means having to explain myself in German to someone; I have to contend with it being a controversial thing here (by no means every medical professional believes in it); as it's controversial, even someone who believes in it may not want to diagnose it in a less 'extreme' case; even if I get a positive diagnosis the treatment options are limited; I may get pressure to undergo therapies I don't want to (mainly the language issue again); the health insurance company (or a future one) may baulk at accepting the liability of someone with a condition which won't go away...

Jonathon,

Park your boat next to mine. I have no language barrier but Australia is somewhere between 15-20 years behind the US/Canada in the understanding and management of ADD...unless your under 10. Lots of kids getting diagnosed; but according to the experts, you grow out of it by 18.

I'm about 6 weeks into the ADD world, and I'm starting to feel a transition from "what is wrong with me" to "I know why I am different, now how can I make the most of what I have and manage those parts that arn't so good".

A rather awsome journey, a journey that would have taken years, if not forever! without this site.

By the way, I've been "threatened" with therapy already..and I havn't been diagnosed yet. You gotta get a doctor like mine..lol

Ive accepted i'm a hunter in a farmers world, and I'll make the best of it where I can and when I can.

sleepz.

Yes. I think most people, whilst respecting the expertise of doctors, would like to remain largely in control of whatever treatments/therapies they undergo, with the doctor providing options. And Adders probably generally rather more than most people. So if you have informed yourself of the latest ideas/treatments etc from, say an American forum like this one, it's frustrating to go back out of your book/computer to the real world around you, where people have barely got a clue (though I occasionally feel glad it's too unknown for there to be a familiar stereotype, say).

I have been thinking about how I now feel the last few days. Since my ADD discovery a month ago, I have gone through a few stages, but it seems to be settling into one in which I feel a little happier and calmer in myself than before (I suppose just as a result of this new knowledge/awareness and participation in the online community). I don't want to overstate it, because I know there will be more changes; I have already gone through a wave of euphoria and a post-euphoric down (luckily very mild and short-lived).

What still feels a bit unstable are the questions of disclosure and treatment. I'm used to trying to find ways to talk about anything I have been hyperfocusing on; so far, I haven't done this with ADD - I think this intuitive caution is for the best, but its a bit odd sometimes. Unless I decide to simply do without the concept and the forums etc (which I don't see happening) I will sooner or later have to bring my wife up to speed on it all. And I'll have to decide on treatment (I am going to go and see a doctor in due course, I have decided, but I may well get on their nerves by wanting to find out what the practical consequences and ramifications of each step are before taking it).

Well I'm NOT a shift-worker, so I had better get some sleep (it's 3.15AM here)!

Originally posted by sleepzalot
Jonathon,


Ive accepted i'm a hunter in a farmers world, and I'll make the best of it where I can and when I can.

sleepz.


Well hunter than whats for dinner eh

How be we just all pick up our hunting wepons and tell these dam farmers they better get there act together and start showing us the respect we deserve or there going to be our next prey

In reallity if you think about it

Nothing has changed except that you now know what the name is that the linear thinkers give to us

the mass population fears anything that is different and must seek to control it so that they can feel good about themselves and feel that they are in control.

As more and more of us come out of the fog as another post called it and as we band together we are not only going to be hunters but we will be an expedition of hunters and soon we will be a global tribe of Hunters.

The mass of the population might do well to fear and respect us as in force we are a very formidable opponent.

Our collective knowelge and our unconventinal way of making something out of nothing will be a great strength as we all tavel down the road to understanding and truth.

as a group will we take our disabillity as the linear thinkers have labeled us with and use it for the good of our fellew ADDErs and we will be strong

Can you tell that I have Keyboard diarea

Grin

Garry,

You diahrea is no worse than mine..and your spelling of it is no better!! I love it!!!

You are right in that I think over the next few years, ADDEers are going to get themselves better organised; due in a large part to forums like this; and will make some incredible impacts on society.

I know that I have some big visions; and so do many others. Whilst we may individually be unable to build these dreams; I'm sure as a group we will work out a way to make some of these come true.

I actually think the next few years are going to be quite exciting as we start to see some of these hunters come together and really start making a difference.

As for dinner; I went hunting in the local game reserve (Safeway) but found nothing interesting. Looks like I'll just scrounge for some worms....or mayby a packet meal...pretty similiar as far as I can tell.

Sleepz.

Sleepzalot: Totally agree and great point about people here on the forums TOGETHER being able to make individual dreams come true...but not able to do it alone on their own, most likely.......We truly can cheer each other on, offer support, encouragement, strokes, etc......through the hard times......

I mean the support is there for everybody.......and it's pretty much unlimited.....:)

And we will make some incredible impacts on society.....ooh, I'm getting goose bumps....:)

For the record, I believe ADD exists, just like diabetes exists, like hyperthyroidism exists, like headaches exist....pick your ailment. Except I do not like the term "disorder" or "ailment" (I know I used it above, but I don't think of ADD as an ailment).

I believe being ADD is like playing a game of poker. You play the hand you're dealt. You may have to ask for new cards to replace ones you don't like, but then you always run the risk of getting crappier cards than the ones you had first. But you HAVE to play your hand. You can't quit this game; there's always going to be another round you can play. Hopefully you get better along the way.... You win some hands, some you lose. I think I'm falling off this train of thought now.... Fuzzy day....

But the reason I put **sigh** in the subject line is that after reading all these posts, I feel so thankful that we do have the Forums and have "found" each other--and that others will "find" us--but yet, when I log off and have to enter the "linear world" of this ICK job, that lonlieness/"I'm sooo different in my head from you people!" feeling seems to swoop in an awful lot of the time.

But this is the hand I must play, so I will play it....

And that Smooch as far as I'm concerned is what is known as COURAGE....going out into the real world of linear thinkers....having the thoughts of "I'm so different"....etc. and feeling the feelings that come from those thoughts (the loneliness)....and working through them...and being okay for just one more day.....Courage: walking through the fear, doing it anyway....and that's what you do on a daily basis Smooch....:)
Yuppper......

And I agree with you...ADD just IS.....yes it exists...and it just IS....and everyone is in different stages of it.....and dealing with it in different ways....but I think it's not about if ADD exists...but how one handles it that counts....with acceptance? with gratitude that forums such as these exist?

Originally posted by smooch
For the record, I believe ADD exists, just like diabetes exists, like hyperthyroidism exists, like headaches exist....pick your ailment. Except I do not like the term "disorder" or "ailment" (I know I used it above, but I don't think of ADD as an ailment).

I believe being ADD is like playing a game of poker. You play the hand you're dealt. You may have to ask for new cards to replace ones you don't like, but then you always run the risk of getting crappier cards than the ones you had first. But you HAVE to play your hand. You can't quit this game; there's always going to be another round you can play. Hopefully you get better along the way.... You win some hands, some you lose. I think I'm falling off this train of thought now.... Fuzzy day....

But the reason I put **sigh** in the subject line is that after reading all these posts, I feel so thankful that we do have the Forums and have "found" each other--and that others will "find" us--but yet, when I log off and have to enter the "linear world" of this ICK job, that lonlieness/"I'm sooo different in my head from you people!" feeling seems to swoop in an awful lot of the time.

But this is the hand I must play, so I will play it....

To supplement your thoughts Smooch

ADD stands for Atention Deficit Disorder as the linear thinking soiciety has so labeled us who are different

Just like a black person was labeled as a NI**ER.

ADD does not stand for Attention Deficit Disorder in My world

I do not have a disease !!!!
I do not have ADD !!!

I AM ADD

A - ADDAPTABLE
D - DIRECTED
D - DETERMINED


Thats what ADD means to me

Smooch,

These forums definately are a blessing.

Not so much a home away from home....But a place to be able to call home...at last.

Sleepz

I agree. I particularly like smooch's remarks. By the way, I like your black cat (or are you a black cat?); it's a bit poignant for me at the moment as my black cat disappeared two days ago. Not (quite) despairing yet...

(Please excuse the change of subject - it's never good for a thread.)

Jonathan~

I'm so sorry to hear about your missing kitty. I've been through quite a lot regarding my kitties, but as you said...that's for another thread! (Hey, I just rhymed!)

The black kitty (I have 3 others) is a 16 month old boy I named Puck...not as in hockey, as in the character from Midsummer Night's Dream because this kitty stirs up a lot of mischief and chaos at my house! He's also very loving and sweet. He represents some facets of my personality. He's also in front of some snowmen...I collect snowmen, so that's another aspect of me shared through this pic. :cool:

Ok, back to the thread. Thank y'all for identifying with my post AND saying so. :)

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1857#newpost

Johnathan

Smooch reposted some real good info on the stages of ADD

Worth reading

Thank you both for your thoughtfulness.

Originally posted by smooch
But the reason I put **sigh** in the subject line is that after reading all these posts, I feel so thankful that we do have the Forums and have "found" each other--and that others will "find" us--

but yet, when I log off and have to enter the "linear world"

of this ICK job,

that lonlieness/

"I'm sooo different in my head from you people!"
_______________________________________
feeling seems to swoop in an awful lot of the time.

But this is the hand I must play, so I will play it....

I quoted part of your original smooch, and as much as I agree with you on the "thankful that we do have the Forums and have "found" each other--and that others will "find" us--"


the part I wish to comment on, the underlined part,

I look at it as " I feel sorry for all you linear thinkers as "I'm sooo different in my head from you people!" and you dont know what you are missing!!!!

But that is my opinion

Originally posted by why


1) The difficulties that we experience as ADDers are primarily caused by the expectations of the larger society. Left to our own devices most ADDers wouldn't starve to death or engage in anti-social behaviour (some may but no greater percentage than the rest).


2) In fact, if society really wanted to help itself, the best approach would be to have people helping people - but that is HARD. So we invented a "pill". Like we invent a

3) This is a fresh idea for me. I may have to change my views after a while (that's the joy of being a "hunter" we are always prepared to change) if they prove meritless, but I have a feeling I'm onto something. How can a society, where compromise and creativity are the rule rather than the exception, be inferior to the one we find ourselves in now?

1) When i miss an appointment, like seeing my kids perform in school, or have to leave the house 7 times in 90 seconds because I forget stuff I need, or drive an hour and a half the wrong direction, it doesn't feel like society that is my biggest problem.

2) Exactly the reason we are all here... to help one anohter.

3) Sounds like communism to me...
to each according to their need
from each according to their ability.

Originally posted by Wheel1975


1) When i miss an appointment, like seeing my kids perform in school, or have to leave the house 7 times in 90 seconds because I forget stuff I need, or drive an hour and a half the wrong direction, it doesn't feel like society that is my biggest problem.

2) Exactly the reason we are all here... to help one anohter.

3) Sounds like communism to me...
to each according to their need
from each according to their ability.

1. if society wasnt so fast pased then we wouldn't have appointments, that we cant miss and have to hurry to get out the door and have to return 7 times( been there done that)

If we could slow the world down , which we cant , but we can slow down how we are reacting to how the world is pushing us to be here be there.

It took me a long time but now I have a job of which I am waiting to goto.

My bags are packed (lunch)
Im ready to go (my log book is in order)

cant remeber the rest of the song
grin

2. No comment as what wheel said is self explanitory

3. Sounds like communisum huh Ok I could go dig up my post about "Living together in a Hippy Commune " but do I want to beat a dead horse.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1858&perpage=15&highlight=hippy&pagenumber=3

Last poast on that page

Originally posted by Garry Lawton
I am still of the oppinion that ADD is just a name given by linear thinkers to us who are different than them as they dont know how to deal with us and we scare them

your point is philosophical and I can appreciate that, but by your same line of thinking their is no such thing as disease at all, which is not very practical now is it? Does someone with cancer simply have 'different' physiological function from the rest of us "non-cancer beings"and therefore are not really sick? No. They have a disease. There physiological function is outside the 'norm' .Ask any Psychiatrist or Psychologist and they will tell the you definition of a "mental illness" - which is what ADD is classified as - is fuzzy at best. Standards are setup based on 'norms'. ADD is outside the 'norm', therefore, it is an illness.
These norms must be setup in order for society and community to exist; most importantly in today's technology-centric society, for 'progress' and 'advancement' to be made. Without them people cannot function togther as a community. It is the same idea as if you want to move to - I don't know. Let's say - China. If you expect to be accepted as 'chinese' - excluding any morphological differences you most likely have - then you must operate within the constructs of the 'Chinese' culture: language, customs, mannerisms, etiquette, etc.
As ADDers, we must learn - or compensate in order - to operate in the constructs of the 'non-adder's' world. Now does that devalue us. No. I hear, underlying your point, an anger about feeling devalued because you have ADD. The only person that can devalue you is you. When not required to function in a non-Add manner, be anything you want to be, no one is asking you to do different. However, if you expect to be successful in your overall life, you better learn, in some way, to function as an non-ADDer as well.
Take my statement for whatever its worth to you. It is simply my opinion and observation. I am only asking that you identify you questions and points for what they are: Philosophical. I cannot see where they are really about the definition of ADD at all.

-MM

Beside Garry, as some of my most contentious posts here have demonstrated, I can be very literal and linear and annoying to those non-ADDers who try to tackle me or even to ADDers who are too well acclimated to the non-ADD world.

I take some exception to the idea that my passionate, unorthodox yet linear thinking is not ADHD too. Yes i engage in nonlinear thinking, branched thinking, parallel and disjoint thinking, but to me some of the most IRRITATING parts of the non-ADD world are where they indulge in "irregular" verbs, and the similar social exceptions to making good sense that are perfect demonstrations of THEM being nonlinear!

So even though I LIKE your construct, for my experience, it is not sufficient to explain all. In fact, much of the time if those non-ADDers would just be MORE linear, I'd feel more comfortable!

Originally posted by MightyMouse



As ADDers, we must learn - or compensate in order - to operate in the constructs of the 'non-adder's' world. Now does that devalue us.

When not required to function in a non-Add manner, be anything you want to be, no one is asking you to do different.

However, if you expect to be successful in your overall life, you better learn, in some way, to function as an non-ADDer as well.
Take my statement for whatever its

-MM

I have to say not so much that I agree with this -- but more that it just makes sense for me.... I mean it seems to me that at some point, for me at least I have to get that the world is still fairly made up of non-ADD'ers who expect us (me) to function/produce in their world in a certain way....

and if I am going to get anywhere meaningful in this life, I have to find a way to make it work within the realm of the non-ADD world....

and I'm not saying this is easy....because it's not....but I think this is just how it is....it's reality.....

I do not like the idea I am stating in the previous post, but, much like you joanrdtobe, I have come to an acceptance of it. I like my ADD traits: non-linear thinking, high creativity, even my hyperkineticity. I recognize, however, that I must also learn to function in a linear, 'non-ADD' way if I want to accomplish any of my goals - and that includes making it easier and more acceptable to exhibit ADD traits in a 'non-ADD' world.

MM

Hmmmm very interesting MM (MM.... call me Joan if you like...joanrdtobe is too formal for me:) ).....

Anyway, very interesting...exhibiting in an ACCEPTABLE way -- ADD traits (such as non-linear thinking, high creativity, hyperkineticity).....So does this mean I need to learn to exhibit these traits in a say, unobtrusive, non-obnoxious, almost casual manner (for lack of better words?)

I guess the question is HOW to exhibit my ADD traits in a non-ADD world....to ultimately function in a linear, non ADD way to accomplish my goals...

Gary,

Yes.:) Seriously, I recently sent BIG a reprint of a journal article from 2002 that is the definitive article on that question .Its signed off by 85 of the world's leading researchers,who BTW are exactly the one's who need to be doing that. You can find the article in Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review,Vol 5,No.2,June 2002,pages 89-111.That is the one of the best reference list 's you'll find anywhere.

I have answered that question many times myself, however, it also requires my getting" technical ." I won't do that now but will give some quick examples of different ways to look at it. If you want the other stuff I can do that in another thread .If not, that's fine too.

In truth, there are many ways to approach answering that question, some of which require unaviodable discussions of genetics, brain chemistry and other related (technical) topics.Other ways to approach it are more fun, such as the realization that while the name has changed over the years, what we now call ADHD first appeared in the popular literature in German poetry in the in the 1860's with "Fidgety Phil". In 1902, it made its first apperance in the scientific literature as"volitional inhibition." Barkley covers that well in Taking Charge of ADHD on pages 27-28.

Other ways to look at it include the fact that managed care, third party payer insurance companies pay for the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD.If you've ever dealt with them before then you know they don't pay for anything they don't have to and would NEVER pay for something that wasn't real.

Several years ago there was a lawsuit brought in NJ which claimed ADHD was a "fake" disorder that was created by the US govt and drug companies like Novartis, the Swiss manufacturer of Ritalin.I was overjoyed when I saw that because I knew they'd get their paranoid asses kicked.....which they did.The case was thrown out because it was BS.The history is well documented and the disorder is as real as it gets.It took very little time to establish that.

We don't get very many people in YAHOO ADD Support chat saying it's fake anymore.I think that the message is out there.I do think it's important for the ADD community to understand the history tho so as to better educate the public.

PLease check out the article, as well as Barkley's book and others like You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid, Or Crazy? by Kate Kelly & Peg Ramundo.They do an excellent job putting myths to rest as well.

Grin Im not asking as as person who doesn't believe it exist but as a ADDer who is asking for other ADDers to share there thoughts and knowelge as you have just done so well.

The reason I am asking these type of questions is that I have a presentation to put on to Crime Stoppers

http://www.crimestoppers.com

http://www.crimestoppers.org/ Canadian Version

The presentation being about ---- ADD and the Law

Awesome.Good luck to you.

I am a wife of an undiagnosed and untreated adhd husband. I am a mother of a diagnosed and treated adhd daughter. As a "linear thinker" i can tell you my life has not been easy trying to figure out why both my husband and daughter do and did the things they did or do. As for my child i can see how medication helps her in many ways and i now see some things in her that weren't present before because she couldn't sit still and concentrate long enough before to do them. I as an non-adder can tell you all that when an adhd mood lasts for a week this is difficult on an entire family. My husband has had and continues to have these moods. There are now 5 of us in this family, and at present only two of us have adhd . Life has been difficult when my husband has these moods i feel completely helpess to help him. I have just read these three pages of threads and being as you call me a "linear thinker" and "non-add-der" alot of what i have read seems to me to be the "oh poor me i don't fit in" or oh poor me you don't understand me" well i can tell you i do have some insight into adhd and yes it is hard for people to accept adhd as a disorder simply because they can't physically see it like when someone is in a wheelchair for example. I as a "linear thinker" i do not fear you. I know and have more than accepted adhd for it lives in my family. It appears that these pages in one way or another look down on us linear thinkers simply because we don't think like you and yet you don't want to be looked down on because you think differently, if us non add-der's and adders get together we can make our world better by adding to each other's weakness where i may be stronger in one area where your weak you can add to where i am weak there's no point in name calling and looking down on others it gets everyone nowhere. I have seen good things in both my adhd'ers and i love them very much and i accept them for who they are. I know they accept me for who i am. the question seems to be "do you accept you for who you are" I feel it is up to those who have add and adhd and the people who are in your life to help make this "disorder" more well known and by it being more well known the more acceptance of it there will be.

Hi,

Thank you for the excellent post. I've never heard the term "linear thinker" outside of this forum and I never use it. There fore, please dont take it personally. I would hope your husband is getting treatment via meds and perhaps therapy, Certainly, Family Therapy makes lots of sense.Meanwhile, please check out these books if you havren't already:

1) Taking Charge of ADHD........by Russell Barkley

2) You Mean I'm Not Lazy Stupid or Crazy?........by Kate Kelly and Peg Ramundo

3) The Parents Guide to Attention Deficit Disorder......... by McCarney & Bauer

The last book is 100% practical( no theory) behavior modification techniques for ADHD. In fact, behavior mod is the Only proven therapy ( outside of meds) that works for the Hyperactive _Impulsive & Combined types of ADHD. That does not apply to the Inattentive Type, which was previously called ADD.

The more you can organize your household( for everyone (not just those with ADHD), the better the chances are for some improvement.

Here's one last idea for your hubby, that may or not apply to his moods.Please check out Sensory Integration Disorder. It's a somewhat controversial diagnostic name, however, I can tell you that I have whatever it is and it makes my moods worse as an adult ADHD. The best book I know of is.......The Out of Sync Child.. by Carol Stock Kranowitz. PLease don't overlook it becaue of the title, it's worth exploring:)

Good Luck,

mctavish23 (Robert)

mctavish23 (Robert)

Thank you for the book titles. I intend to find out if my local library has them. My husband is scheduled to meet with the physchiatrist in late May. Here's hoping they'll be able to get him on the right track.

dolphin

ADD is one of the most researched conditions in the history of medicine. Any professional, and yes there are a few out there who still make the claim it is a sham, who claims ADHD has a dubious claim to reality as a malady hasn't cracked a research journal in over a century. That's how long ADHD has been recognized and studied by one name or another. There is more evidence, and research supporting it than many other more "visible" and main stream illnesses that no one in the press questions.

I do, however, resent deeply that it has been variously been characterized as brain damage, brain dysfunction, and most recently a "disorder" by the establishment. It is my firm belief that the Pathological symptoms that arise from being ADHD are an outgrowth of being ADHD in our society and not from being ADHD in and of itself. Population geneticists will be the first to tell you that any "disorder" with a genetic root that occurs in two percent or more of a population cannot, by it's very nature, be a disorder. Genetic disorders don't propogate. Even if you take into account that in modern culture we don't allow maladpative traits to "Die off". Modern culture has only existed for six thousand of the five million year human time line. That is an eye blink in evolutionary time. It isn't even enough time for sexual selection to do much let alone major biological changes to take place. In other words, things like ADHD have been around for a very long time. Long before cities, agriculture, written language, and maybe even spoken language. Therefore, if it were really a disorder, it would long since have ceased in our population. Or it would occupy a much smaller segment of the gene pool. Say a small fraction of one percent. What is even more interesting, is that most mental illnesses afflict more than two percent of the population... Was life disabling lack of focus and nuerosis, heck even some psychosis adaptive back then? I very much doubt it. Nah, I suspect that it is more a case of those pathological manifestations being completely absent with the absence of our present environment. You see human beings were never meant to live this way. This is about as alien an environment to us as a dessert is to a fish.

Disorder my rosie red american kiester! It's modern society, that needs some fixing! I'd say there's definitely some room for compromise that benefits both parties if society could loosen up a little!