View Full Version : Any other psychos on ADDF?


Dmitri
11-26-12, 10:06 PM
I feel like Im all alone lol I need someone relateable

anyone?

daveddd
11-26-12, 10:12 PM
someone actually gave you a psychopath dx?

Dmitri
11-26-12, 10:18 PM
Yeah it's a personality disorder albeit not well understood. I'm not evil though Haha.

Dmitri
11-26-12, 10:25 PM
There's no medication or anything except SSRIs but those are experimental due their positive effects with dealing with other PDs.

I like other psychos basically have to understand and distinguish how I naturally think, and how I should think.

Electra2
11-26-12, 11:39 PM
Forgive my stupidity,but what does psychopathy 1-2 meen? :scratch:

Abi
11-26-12, 11:42 PM
There is no psychopathy dx in the DSM and Under-18's can't be dx'd with PD's like ASPD.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 08:03 AM
Abi what country do you live in?

Abi
11-27-12, 08:06 AM
Ukraine. You?

daveddd
11-27-12, 08:08 AM
Abi what country do you live in?

i live 20 minutes from you

abi is correct,psychopath is no longer an official dx, it hasnt been for years

and honestly im shocked that any doctor would slap you with a label like that

the closest to a psychopath , would be anti social PD with an unemotional callous specifier

Dmitri
11-27-12, 08:15 AM
Perhaps my description is misleading

i am American and here it is similar.

Due to the subjective nature of psychopathy there is no formal diagnosis, due to the obvious risk of false diagnosis. Modern psychopaths are simply labrats in a sense, shrinks know little more than we do, and juvenile psychopathy has even less research available.

It is very real though as evident with cases such as Chardon high school, but if a doctor were to read my official diagnostic slip, psychopathy would not be included

so to answer any questions, no psychopathy is not formally recognized in diagnostic procedures. It is similar to OCD in the regard that it is an uncategorized PD.

tudorose
11-27-12, 08:19 AM
What is it like Dmitri? Do you feel empathy? All I have to go in is an episode of 'lie to me'.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 08:23 AM
I am sure however that this was not a wrongful diagnosis.

As a kid I became obsessed with mass shootings and created a master plan on how to maximize casualties and even how to escape.
Also thought of scenarios to kill presidents, etc. but those involved martyrdom.
That's not normal lol there's an endless list of things that point to it that's just the best example.
Anyways my parents found all of my plans (which I kept in a fire safe) and while they knew Id never carry these plans out, something wasn't right. This was when I was 13 and I am now 17.

Just to make this clear this is not against my will. I gave my complete conscious consent to being a research subject.

daveddd
11-27-12, 08:27 AM
interesting


how is the research study going

Abi
11-27-12, 08:27 AM
OCD is an Axis I psych disorder, recognised in the DSM.

OCPD is an Axis II personality disorder [Cluster C], also recognised in the DSM.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 08:36 AM
Oh yeah I'm not completely heartless haha

I just have intensed feelings of sadism/masochism and a lowered sense of mercym
Also a clouded sense of morality.

I still love my family, friends, etc. just like... I don't know how to put it... just think about it this way: I take an extraordinary amount of interest in the saw series.

Revenge would probably be the most relateable series for me. I'm like Amanda only I don't need as much cause than Amanda... a lot less cause.

I almost never act on here feelings as I know they are wrong. Someimesbwyen Im mad I say over the top vile and hurtful things to people but that's it.

Fuzzy12
11-27-12, 08:41 AM
That's fascinating. I was going to ask what a psychopath is (as in what's the official definition) but I think, I kind of got it from your descriptions.

So is a psychopath someone with a reduced level of what is morally deemed acceptable in current society?

Is it genetic or acquired?

Is it compulsive? I mean, are these just fantasies or do you worry that you might actually enact them some day?

Is it something you worry about?

Thanks for sharing and I'm very glad to hear that you are unlikely to hurt anyone willingly. :grouphug:

tudorose
11-27-12, 08:41 AM
As a kid I became obsessed with mass shootings and created a master plan on how to maximize casualties and even how to escape.
Also thought of scenarios to kill presidents, etc. but those involved martyrdom.
That's not normal lol there's an endless list of things that point to it that's just the best example.
Anyways my parents found all of my plans (which I kept in a fire safe) and while they knew Id never carry these plans out, something wasn't right. This was when I was 13 and I am now 17.

Sorry for all these questions mate but I do want to understand and the best way is to ask someone in the know.

How does it feel? Do you feel happy, sad, nothing?

When you think about doing something like this what do you visualise if would look like? Is it like a computer game?

Would you feel remorse if you actually did something like this or would you feel detached from it?

Dmitri
11-27-12, 08:46 AM
Excuse my ignorance (in the literal sense) I haven't studied many other PD's

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:11 AM
Sorry for slow responses I'm on my phone.

A good example of y every day feelings.

I was at a travel plaza the other day and I saw a kid who fell face first on the ground (tile) crying. I burst out laughing- I thought it was genuinely hilarious, even though anybody else would be overcome with pity.

It's interesting on how ADD meds interact. Adderall makes it worse, Vyvanse doesn't affect it, Concerta makes it 10x worse.

Subtract81
11-27-12, 09:15 AM
I hate typing on here on my phone to, (especially when trying to reply to insanely long posts...)

I think people often laugh at the misfortune of others, it is why you have shows like you've been framed and candid camera etc, it depends on where you draw the line, if you put a laughter track after most things most people will laugh...

Interested to hear more about this psychopathy, i only know what i see on horror films as i assume is most peoples only exposure to it.

I assumed it would have something to do with a lack of empathy and impulse control?

Fuzzy12
11-27-12, 09:15 AM
Sorry for slow responses I'm on my phone.

A good example of y every day feelings.

I was at a travel plaza the other day and I saw a kid who fell face first on the ground (tile) crying. I burst out laughing- I thought it was genuinely hilarious, even though anybody else would be overcome with pity.

It's interesting on how ADD meds interact. Adderall makes it worse, Vyvanse doesn't affect it, Concerta makes it 10x worse.

But did you find it hilarious like a comic act or in that moment were you aware of the fact that the kid probably hurt himself and was in pain and that is what amused you?

I mean is it more of an empathy or a sadism issue? (Feel free not to answer by the way. I'm just curious)

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:44 AM
Its mostly apathy, sometimes I feel the opposite of how normal people feel.

When a local guy shot up cracker barrel and killed his entire family before shooting himself (including a 6 year old girl) I cracked jokes.
You know how people catch a spider and put it in a cup and see how long it lives? Yeah I hate when that happens. Somebody did that in my Bio II class... so I fed their adorable hedgehog bleach. Yeah it died...

I felt remorse though! Not to the group I enjoyed their grief, but I got really depressed over the hedgehog... I feel far more sympathy to animals than human. I hate humans... well most of them, you guys are cool

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:59 AM
But did you find it hilarious like a comic act or in that moment were you aware of the fact that the kid probably hurt himself and was in pain and that is what amused you?

I mean is it more of an empathy or a sadism issue? (Feel free not to answer by the way. I'm just curious)

Its okay lol
By far the biggest issue is lack of empathy (in certain situations, as stated earlier I do feel plenty of empathy). Like I didn't enjoy seeing the kid suffer, rather, I didn't care and saw it purely for its comical value.

For sadistic tendencies, think of it as extreme vigilante justice. Like I don't like watching innocent organisms in general suffer when its inflicted by someone else. The reason I get fascinated with saw is that I know its all fake. But in the case with the hedgehog I enjoyed inflicting emotional pain on the dumb broads that made the spider slowly die from lack of oxygen, but their hedgehog was an innocent victim with pain inflicted by me.

Fuzzy12
11-27-12, 10:06 AM
Its okay lol
But in the case with the hedgehog I enjoyed inflicting emotional pain on the dumb broads that made the spider slowly die from lack of oxygen, but their hedgehog was an innocent victim with pain inflicted by me.

Why did they make the spider die from lack of oxygen? For research or for entertainment?? Maybe they are psychopathic too. :(

My first instinct was to say that maybe you should have fed those girls with bleach rather than the hedgehog but yeah, don't do that. ;)

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:05 AM
Haha arachnophobia is extremely common... maybe they just didn't Care. Keep in mind Psycopathy isn't the only source of sadism though.

Its like a mixture of research and amusement. Many people hate spiders lol.

You seem to have above average levels of empathy so maybe this seems wrong to you, but I've seen it done plenty of time.

If you look at it scientifically- the root of all cuteness is how much something looks like a human baby, or rather, has similar features to a baby... big eyes, disproportionately big head, etc. If you look at spiders they're like the opposite of babies, like they don't have anything in common. I guess the opposite of cute is naturally disgusting?

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:12 AM
Hahahahahaha bleach.... is that a subtle offensive reference?

Electra2
11-27-12, 01:15 PM
Here is my oppinion.
Spiders are living creatures like us.
They has a purpose.
I don't think there is any reason to try to distance our self so much
from the word around,after all we are connected to it,
it is a part of us whether we like it or not.
Every time we make an action it effects us back,
sooner or later,or effects those we care about...
unless we break into it and change the behaviour.
I think this is what they fail to see,or don't want to,maybe.
All animals feel pain like we do,but they are defenceless.
I hate all this cruelty.
The spiders are not created cute,
but sometimes I don't feel very cute myself,
and I guess we all feel that way sometimes.
We can't choose our looks,but even if we look ugly we
are still valueble in one way or another,
and we serve a purpose...
I know you tried to make justice by commiting an act
that was harch enough to make them react.
And yes it was not right for the sake of the animal
and those innosent around the animal who loved it.
Now time has passed and you saw what happend.
It did something to you.
It made you feel bad.
If you threw hot coal at someone, then that coal would burn your hand
at the same time.
So if you hurt others in the end you hurt your self,or those you care for.
Don't let them get to you that way.

Fuzzy12
11-27-12, 01:49 PM
Electra, I totally agree. Spiders freak me out and I can't be in the same room as a spider. I know though that this is my problem and not the spider's fault. Because of me, my husband has perfected the art of catching spiders alive and releasing them in our garden.

My acquaintances think I'm super weird because I make such a big fuss about not killing any animals, including insects. I can't totally avoid it. I'm sure I unknowingly kill lots of little bugs and I also wear leather (though I try to avoid it) and use medicines (maybe even cosmetics) that have probably been tested on animals. I feel bad about it but I care more for myself. But I don't understand killing an animal just for the sake of pleasure or entertainment. I try not to judge, especially since I do use animal products to make life easier (am a vegetarian though) but I don't understand willingly hurting another living being.

That's what made me think that those girls might have some kind of personality problem.

Electra2
11-27-12, 02:15 PM
http://images.flowers.vg/250x300/spiders.jpg

http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/Field_Guide/Images/originals/Fig.%2028.jpg

http://www.insectidentification.org/imgs/insects/goldenrod-crab-spider.jpg

I have allso got a fear of spiders but they are so...fascinating!

Sorry to get of topic from the psychopatic issue with the spider pictures

Fuzzy12
11-27-12, 02:17 PM
These are actually pretty. At least from distance. From a very, very, very, very far distance!!! :rolleyes:

Electra2
11-27-12, 02:25 PM
:lol: true dat :D

ana futura
11-27-12, 02:35 PM
I was at a travel plaza the other day and I saw a kid who fell face first on the ground (tile) crying. I burst out laughing- I thought it was genuinely hilarious, even though anybody else would be overcome with pity.

It's interesting on how ADD meds interact. Adderall makes it worse, Vyvanse doesn't affect it, Concerta makes it 10x worse.

I always have a little chuckle in situations like that. If I were to see that kid I would laugh first, then make fun of him, and then feel bad that I made fun of him, and finally I would feel sorry for him.

I think that's the difference between straight ADHD and personality disorders- ADHD makes you have inappropriate responses too, but the correct response is buried in there and comes out eventually.

Medication makes me more empathetic, and far less likely to laugh at some one else's misfortune.

ginniebean
11-27-12, 02:53 PM
Hmmm, Homicidal ideation is not exclusive to personality disorders. But, Dimitri, never believe there's no hope, you can get better.

ginniebean
11-27-12, 03:02 PM
Oh forgot to mention, while I have no personality disorder I have been psychotic. So, I guess that makes me a psycho.

RalphStanzic
11-27-12, 04:07 PM
Its okay lol
By far the biggest issue is lack of empathy (in certain situations, as stated earlier I do feel plenty of empathy). Like I didn't enjoy seeing the kid suffer, rather, I didn't care and saw it purely for its comical value.

For sadistic tendencies, think of it as extreme vigilante justice. Like I don't like watching innocent organisms in general suffer when its inflicted by someone else. The reason I get fascinated with saw is that I know its all fake. But in the case with the hedgehog I enjoyed inflicting emotional pain on the dumb broads that made the spider slowly die from lack of oxygen, but their hedgehog was an innocent victim with pain inflicted by me.

Strangely enough, I have the same feelings. If I saw a kid riding his bike suddenly fall off a bike crying I'd probably laugh. Also, when most people watch gore videos or other videos of people dying or getting really hurt, I just don't care. If I saw someone die in real life, I'd be like WTF though. I was obsessed with school shootings (columbine e.g) and the people behind it. Had a fascination with reading how serial killers killed people too. I wouldn't say I'm psychotic, just lacking empathy.

tudorose
11-27-12, 08:05 PM
You know how people catch a spider and put it in a cup and see how long it lives? Yeah I hate when that happens. Somebody did that in my Bio II class... so I fed their adorable hedgehog bleach. Yeah it died...

I felt remorse though! Not to the group I enjoyed their grief, but I got really depressed over the hedgehog... I feel far more sympathy to animals than human. I hate humans... well most of them, you guys are cool

You felt remorse. From all the things I've read and seen about psychos they don't have any remorse. So maybe either they have it wrong and psychos feel remorse but don't show it or maybe you aren't a hardcore case?

After the Lance Armstrong saga there were lots of articles calling him a psychopath. What's your opinion?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226502263030

daveddd
11-27-12, 08:10 PM
is the psychopath 1-2, like robert hares secondary psychopath

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:46 PM
You felt remorse. From all the things I've read and seen about psychos they don't have any remorse. So maybe either they have it wrong and psychos feel remorse but don't show it or maybe you aren't a hardcore case?

After the Lance Armstrong saga there were lots of articles calling him a psychopath. What's your opinion?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226502263030

Maybe you misunderstood?
Psycopathy is characterised by mainly a lack of empathy (among other things).so remorse basically goes under that category. It is easy to generalize psychopathy as it is not understood even to men who research it for a living. Its like ADHD- not everybody is overly energetic, bouncing off the walls, yet if the average person were to think of ADD, that's exactly what would come to mind.
I do not believe Lance Armstrong is a psychopath and I'm sick of the media slapping that label on anyone with a scandal. Is everyone who does something bad a psychopath? Besides considering all of Lance Armstrongs charity work it outweighs what many consider "psychopathic" tendencies

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:50 PM
Psycopathy is put into subtypes like ADD. Some psychopaths have extreme levels of arrogance and self worth, seeking to become rich, famous, successful at all costs. Others such as myself focus mainly on a lack of empathy/fear, intensified feelings of aggression and sadism/masochism.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 09:55 PM
Many rich, successful people carry the former, which is why the rich get the stereotype of "greedy, selfish, etc" someone like Trump would fit here (a billionaire egomaniac) although there's no wy for me to know for sure.

Also there's that thing about money corrupting but yeah. All speculation, people with PP1-1 are very good at blending in with society though

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:06 PM
Another thing to note with psychopathy is that many people live with it and never cause harm to anybody. The only psychopaths you hear about shooting up school and stuff came from horrible abusive violent homes (Hitler, TJ Lane). I grew up with a great home and parents who instilled a clear sense of what's right and what's wrong. If I had an abusive home or something, let me tell you Id be one of The biggest news stories ever lol.

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:13 PM
Does vyvanse help or make it worse?

It's my understanding that ADHD medication could potentially make things worse.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:17 PM
Vyvanse barely affects it at all. My problem is increased aggression and lack of empathy and ADD meds are kind of doomed to make it worse.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:20 PM
Boy with Concerta though... god accelerated brainpower and increased aggression... terrible combination for a psychopath Haha lets just say I'm glad I got off it otherwise Id be dead... and so would thousands of others... or just one important person Haha

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:22 PM
Vyvanse barely affects it at all. My problem is increased aggression and lack of empathy and ADD meds are kind of doomed to make it worse.

Interesting.
ADHD meds make me nicer towards others, and much less aggressive.

Have you thought that maybe vyvanse is part of the problem? Were you better before you started ADHD meds?

Are you confident in your ADHD diagnosis?

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:23 PM
Ritalin makes me want to take a nice nap.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:26 PM
Ritalin makes me want to take a nice nap.

Haha no I am absolutely sure that my ADD diagnosis was valid and the the prescriptions improve my performance.

I didn't phrase my previous message well. I meant that ADD meds in general increase aggression (or rather intensify moods) and out of all of them, Vyvanse offers the fewest problems.

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:40 PM
Haha no I am absolutely sure that my ADD diagnosis was valid and the the prescriptions improve my performance.

I didn't phrase my previous message well. I meant that ADD meds in general increase aggression (or rather intensify moods) and out of all of them, Vyvanse offers the fewest problems.

But in a person with straight ADHD, often the meds will decrease aggression, at least while the med is active. Do your moods get worse while the meds are active, or when the med is wearing off?

I have tantrums and freakouts when my meds wear off, but while they are active it's smooth sailing.

This is the thing that bothers me about meds- I feel so uneven all the time, and it wears on me. I have trouble timing the doses, and it makes everything worse.

Vyvanse did mess with my moods somewhat while it was active (I blame the release mechanism) , but with IR meds there is a clear crash.

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:42 PM
You might find this article about Klebold and Harris interesting-

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2004/04/the_depressive_and_the_psychopath.html

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:45 PM
I assume you've seen the Barkley video about ADHD and psychopathy?

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:45 PM
The thing with that is, ADD meds are very much a personal thing, which is why there are so many available, each person reacts differently. For example- you wanting to take a nap on Ritalin, I have never experienced a single ADD meds with sedative qualities.

For me any feeling- good or bad- is intensified with Adderall and Concerta. With Vyvanse I had the lowest irritability but it messes with your head after a while... which is why my meds now rotate like antibiotics lol

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:51 PM
You might find this article about Klebold and Harris interesting-

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2004/04/the_depressive_and_the_psychopath.html

I've read this before... I was a columbine fanatic for a period, still fascinates me just am not obsessed Haha. Fascinating though.

Haven't seen the barkley video though, honestly I've heard his name so much on these forums I hate him Haha. I get he's a genius butt so overrefferenced... if that's a word haha

ana futura
11-27-12, 10:54 PM
The thing with that is, ADD meds are very much a personal thing, which is why there are so many available, each person reacts differently.

That is true. I wonder if you would do better on something like provigil? It's supposed to not have the same effect on emotions and thought patterns.

If I had a personality disorder diagnosis that was worsened by ADHD meds, I would be afraid to take them.

I think the future of ADHD meds will be drugs that affect the nicotine receptors- amphetamines are just not a good idea for many of us with emotional issues, even without a PD diagnosis.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 10:55 PM
To answer your question (sorry still on phone) I generally do not get mad while the meds are in full effect unless provoked. I do get mad while its wearing off though, Vyvanse is terrible in regards to late night irritability, but it lasts so long that my only problem is going to bed without talking to anyone.

ana futura
11-27-12, 11:01 PM
Haven't seen the barkley video though, honestly I've heard his name so much on these forums I hate him Haha. I get he's a genius butt so overrefferenced... if that's a word haha
I agree.

It's not uncommon to be fascinated by serial killers/ mass murderers, especially as a teenager. I was obsessed with Andrew Cunanan for some reason. I still have a copy of his wanted poster in a pile somewhere.

I spent hours reading about the guy on the greyhound bus in Canada who went into a psychosis and started eating his seatmate.

I was fascinated by James Holmes and Harris and Klebold. So was the rest of the internet.

I think it's important to remember that that sort of fascination with the taboo is not abnormal.

Sometimes, if you convince yourself that something is abnormal, you give it too much power. Does that make sense?

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:01 PM
Yes amphetamines really mess with your head, but Methyphendiate is worse and current non-stims do nothing.

ADHD is also relatively limited in regards to research available, so pharmacology naturally has limited info as well. Yes I believe ADD meds will get a lot better and in the near future especially with the boom in pharmacology. I don't think Adderall has even reached the 20 year mark yet haha I think it became FDA approved like a year after I was born.

ana futura
11-27-12, 11:03 PM
To answer your question (sorry still on phone) I generally do not get mad while the meds are in full effect unless provoked. I do get mad while its wearing off though, Vyvanse is terrible in regards to late night irritability, but it lasts so long that my only problem is going to bed without talking to anyone.

Yeah, I have this problem too. I would do better on a long acting med but I don't like them.

I was curious about the meds because if you got mad for no reason while the med was in full effect that wouldn't be a typical ADHD response.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:05 PM
I agree.

It's not uncommon to be fascinated by serial killers/ mass murderers, especially as a teenager. I was obsessed with Andrew Cunanan for some reason. I still have a copy of his wanted poster in a pile somewhere.

I spent hours reading about the guy on the greyhound bus in Canada who went into a psychosis and started eating his seatmate.

I was fascinated by James Holmes and Harris and Klebold. So was the rest of the internet.

I think it's important to remember that that sort of fascination with the taboo is not abnormal.

Sometimes, if you convince yourself that something is abnormal, you give it too much power. Does that make sense?

Yeah I get what you're saying, but there is a lot more to support my dx than just that, I just saw that as a good example.
What wasn't normal however was the fact that I created advised plans to shoot up the school, kill Dubya/Obama, etc. That's when it went from an obsession to a serious problem... I needed to do something before i acted on these impulses beforeI ruined a lot of lives lol

tudorose
11-27-12, 11:06 PM
I get really irritable when the meds wear off too although I'm the opposite to you Dmitri in that I think I am an empath. I feel all the emotions in the room as if they were my own. I'm over empathetic and put other people before myself too much. I can feel when somethings wrong with someone close (even when they were 500km away).

I suppose that's why this fascinates me so much coz it's the total opposite of what I experience. I want to understand it because the only time I see anything about it is like you said when the media labels a high profile person like Lance or on crime TV shows like Criminal Minds or Lie to me.

I think it is probably the most misunderstood condition and the label get slapped on people indiscriminately. I guess other than a consultant psychiatrist the only people who would really know in terms of being able to diagnose would be behavioural analysts for law enforcement agencies who probably see those on the more severe end of the spectrum.

ana futura
11-27-12, 11:08 PM
Yeah I get what you're saying, but there is a lot more to support my dx than just that, I just saw that as a good example.
What wasn't normal however was the fact that I created advised plans to shoot up the school, kill Dubya/Obama, etc. That's when it went from an obsession to a serious problem... I needed to do something before i acted on these impulses beforeI ruined a lot of lives lol

Yes, that is not normal, but you did realize that you needed to do something, and I think that says a lot.

Still, don't dwell on your difference- Don't underestimate the power of your own mind. You become what you will yourself to become.

Also, adderall's actually pretty old!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obetrol

ana futura
11-27-12, 11:14 PM
I get really irritable when the meds wear off too although I'm the opposite to you Dmitri in that I think I am an empath. I feel all the emotions in the room as if they were my own. I'm over empathetic and put other people before myself too much. I can feel when somethings wrong with someone close (even when they were 500km away).

On meds or off meds? Without meds I go between having no empathy and too much.

On dexedrine I am more even, but sometimes I think there is more depth to my concern for others.

On ritalin I want to nap. :rolleyes:

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:15 PM
And criminals seeking an insanity plea haha. Yeah as stated earlier its extremely common- the only cases where psycopaths act on their impulses are when they come from broken homes or face some other trauma. If you got a good support group you wi be fine.

The reason there is so little research available is the negative connotation that people such as TJ Lane gave it. Nobody wants to be put in the same group as Hitler, Lane, Sweeney Todd, etc. also the description makes many jump to the conclusion that psychopaths are evil or bad and while this is completely possible, a good majority of psychopaths are just your every day Joe.

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:17 PM
Yes, that is not normal, but you did realize that you needed to do something, and I think that says a lot.

Still, don't dwell on your difference- Don't underestimate the power of your own mind. You become what you will yourself to become.

Also, adderall's actually pretty old!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obetrol

Interesting link lol although in that era it was a diet pill. What I meant is that it became approved for treatment of ADD after I was born

ana futura
11-27-12, 11:31 PM
And criminals seeking an insanity plea haha. Yeah as stated earlier its extremely common- the only cases where psycopaths act on their impulses are when they come from broken homes or face some other trauma. If you got a good support group you wi be fine.

The reason there is so little research available is the negative connotation that people such as TJ Lane gave it. Nobody wants to be put in the same group as Hitler, Lane, Sweeney Todd, etc. also the description makes many jump to the conclusion that psychopaths are evil or bad and while this is completely possible, a good majority of psychopaths are just your every day Joe.

I read a very interesting article about pedophiles saying much the same thing- the great majority will never act on their impulses, but their brains are hard wired to be that way. Most fight against their desires their entire lives and never harm anyone.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/opinion/cantor-pedophila-sandusky/index.html

FYI Hitler was on amphetamines (along with most SS officers) It was their "coffee". Be careful with the ADHD meds, okay?

tudorose
11-27-12, 11:32 PM
On meds or off meds? Without meds I go between having no empathy and too much.

On dexedrine I am more even, but sometimes I think there is more depth to my concern for others.



I am like this all the time - off meds, on meds. It's exhausting. It's hard enough dealing with your own feelings let alone everyone elses. Meds have no impact whatsoever on my empathy. Wish they did sometimes. It must be nice to be able to get a break from it.

tudorose
11-27-12, 11:34 PM
And criminals seeking an insanity plea haha. Yeah as stated earlier its extremely common- the only cases where psycopaths act on their impulses are when they come from broken homes or face some other trauma. If you got a good support group you wi be fine.

The reason there is so little research available is the negative connotation that people such as TJ Lane gave it. Nobody wants to be put in the same group as Hitler, Lane, Sweeney Todd, etc. also the description makes many jump to the conclusion that psychopaths are evil or bad and while this is completely possible, a good majority of psychopaths are just your every day Joe.

Sounds like you have good parents. How do you reckon you'd go coming to Australia and being without their support?

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:40 PM
I read a very interesting article about pedophiles saying much the same thing- the great majority will never act on their impulses, but their brains are hard wired to be that way. Most fight against their desires their entire lives and never harm anyone.

FYI Hitler was on amphetamines (along with most SS officers) It was their "coffee". Be careful with the ADHD meds, okay?

LOL okay yeah pedophiles are the most relateable although they have it a lot worse than psycopaths

people don't understand pedophiles =/=child mollester and psychopath =/= murderer. All about judgement and connotation and while its more justified than say a Klansmans prejudice its still prejudice.

People don't get that its a severe personality disorder and that pedophiles and psychopaths are not exactly terrible people. well many are but its hard to control.

Obesity however is a choice. Like I doubt so much of America has a metabolic disease... Unless it spreads through McDonalds...

Dmitri
11-27-12, 11:45 PM
Sounds like you have good parents. How do you reckon you'd go coming to Australia and being without their support?

Pretty well I generally plan on being pretty reclusive after college (or rather separated from people) and as long as nobody messes with me I'll be fine lol. I'm friendly to people friendly to me, my only problem is injustice... then crazy vigilante Dmitri kicks in

Think of me as a dog. I'll be friendly if you pet me. Hit me I kill you. Hit my owner I kill you. Then once I taste your flesh Ill be hungry for moaaaaaar

Although Im not quick to kill... haven't and plan on never killing a human.

Subtract81
11-28-12, 09:35 AM
Dmitri, obesity is not a choice as such, it is affected by choices yes, but that is not the same thing, i once thought like you, but you would not believe the influences of marketting and the effects unhealthy food can have on people, it is habit forming and a fat person can be equated in many respects to a drug addict, food however is much more readily available and legal, where profit is concerned for many industries you would ideally want everyone to be fat, that would mean lead to the largest profit margins, profit has no concern for human health, you have to look at the "big picture" in all cases.

I myself am not fat but it is easy for people like us to judge those who are not like us, just like we are judged ourselves, i guess you could call it a kind of internal points scoring system or defence mechanism we all have, doesn't make it right though.

Dmitri
11-28-12, 09:42 AM
That's true I agree that food can be addictive but if you match it with a healthy active lifestyle it's hard to become morbidly obese. Like my dad used to eat whatever he wanted and stayed in very good shape (probably about 200 lbs, 70% muscle) and now that he doesn't need weight h eats healthy and dropped to about 150 lbs, 85-90% muscle.

Subtract81
11-28-12, 12:25 PM
Your dad is probably well educated with regard to diet and health. All i am saying is that obesity is a natural bi-product of consumerism and the free market, which is somewhat mitigated by education. Some of us are educated enough or possibly have not developed genetic predispositions over generations, or are not as easily influenced, all issues that run much deeper than you might think. Everything is directly related to environmental influences (bar random mutations), much like psychopathy and adhd, you can never have an accurate view of human behaviour if you do it in isolation of its context.

Dmitri
11-28-12, 01:16 PM
Your dad is probably well educated with regard to diet and health. All i am saying is that obesity is a natural bi-product of consumerism and the free market, which is somewhat mitigated by education. Some of us are educated enough or possibly have not developed genetic predispositions over generations, or are not as easily influenced, all issues that run much deeper than you might think. Everything is directly related to environmental influences (bar random mutations), much like psychopathy and adhd, you can never have an accurate view of human behaviour if you do it in isolation of its context.

I mean that's very valid and I agree that people label without understanding.

I get obesity isn't black and white, i just stated my view bluntly

Fuzzy12
11-28-12, 01:48 PM
Obesity however is a choice. Like I doubt so much of America has a metabolic disease... Unless it spreads through McDonalds...

Ahem, ahem.. obesity is not necessarily a choice (and sorry to completely go off-tangent :D).

Very few people will make an active choice of "Yes, I want to be obese!!"

I am also not convinced that the choices they make about their eating habits are necessarily out of free will, in particular, in the case of morbidly obese people. Food, eating is such a powerful emotional tool that it's very rarely simple to stop eating (or to start eating) when you know you should.

I'm not obese but that is only because my eating disorder includes both, phases of extreme binge eating and phases of extreme starvation and fasting. Not everyone has a classical eating disorder but I suspect that most people who are obese have an issue with food and controlling their intake.

I like the point about most paedophiles spending their life attempting to resist their urges. I told hubby the other day: "I know you think I mess up too often and don't try hard enough but if you knew how hard I actually tried without getting visible results, you'd give me some credit."

It's so easy to judge others though we really don't know what is going on in their minds or how much they are trying to fight their impulses. Most humans, including NTs have got their own demons to fight. Just some demons are stronger, more devious and more resistant than others, I guess.

Ok, rant over ;)

Subtract81
11-28-12, 01:52 PM
indeed Fuzzy, we kind of just covered that it wasn't that simple, but yes that is another way of putting it :)

Fuzzy12
11-28-12, 01:56 PM
indeed Fuzzy, we kind of just covered that it wasn't that simple, but yes that is another way of putting it :)

Lol..sorry subtract. I only read that one post that I quoted and then went off on my tangent. :D

Anyway, it can't be stated often enough:

DON'T JUDGE!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

:o :D :)

and for good measure ->

:grouphug:

Dmitri
11-28-12, 02:28 PM
Yeah it kind of going along with assuming rapist=pedophile
What.I meant is that many americans are overweight out of pure laziness and lack of exercise, that's what I meant. Real Obesity is an emotional/metabolic disorder (although far easier to control than pedophelia etc. but many fatties are labeled with obesity when they're just lazy. It creates an atmosphere of "being fat is okay" similar to how they rationalize every criminal with being a psychopath.

I accept obese people if they're actually truly obese, not just a lazy pig. they're so hard to distinguish though.

the thing is, the idea of Obesity being a disease makes many fatties play the victim. You know, Im lazy and fat because Im obese. Honestly those people just annoy me, I get food is addicting but nobody is to blame but them.

Fuzzy12
11-28-12, 02:37 PM
Yeah it kind of going along with assuming rapist=pedophile
What.I meant is that many americans are overweight out of pure laziness and lack of exercise, that's what I meant. Real Obesity is an emotional/metabolic disorder (although far easier to control than pedophelia etc. but many fatties are labeled with obesity when they're just lazy. It creates an atmosphere of "being fat is okay" similar to how they rationalize every criminal with being a psychopath.

I accept obese people if they're actually truly obese, not just a lazy pig. they're so hard to distinguish though.

the thing is, the idea of Obesity being a disease makes many fatties play the victim. You know, Im lazy and fat because Im obese. Honestly those people just annoy me, I get food is addicting but nobody is to blame but them.

Ahem, ahem again!! :o

Laziness is subjective. What if their particular combination of neurotransmitters won't allow them to be active or makes being active and exercising/food intake control difficult? What if they have become habituated or learnt being lazy? Or any other of the million reasons there could be.

I don't think there is anything like true obesity. As far as I know obesity depends on your BMI. If your BMI is higher than a particular value (I think, it's 30 for caucasians) then you are by definition obese.

I hate when people equate rapists with pedophiles. Not all rapists are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are rapists.

Dmitri
11-28-12, 03:41 PM
Lol well
What if I were to take a gun and kill my entire family?
What if my turtle were to grow exponentially and eat me?

I understand your rational but as every human is unique you will find an exception for any statement.

1+1=2?
Well if A couple had a baby 1+1=3 or twins 1+1=4 etc.
Does that render the first statement invalid?

Dmitri
11-28-12, 03:43 PM
If a man had a gun and was going to kill my family, killing him would be the right thing to do.
Does that mean saying "murder is bad" is invalid

Fuzzy12
11-28-12, 03:51 PM
If a man had a gun and was going to kill my family, killing him would be the right thing to do.
Does that mean saying "murder is bad" is invalid

Huh?

I think, that good and bad are very relative and not fundamental values.

I'm not saying that we need to accept everything or shouldn't try to improve ourselves and our environment. All I'm saying is that I don't think that judgement (i.e. labelling people as good/bad, useless/valuable, etc.) ever helps.

Whatever the problem of an obese people is, getting annoyed at his "laziness" will neither help him, you nor the rest of the society. Understanding where he/she might be coming from and trying to constructively help (or at least refrain from judging) would probably be more useful to everyone.

It's like saying that people with ADHD are just lazy and stupid. Whether you believe that ADHD is a legitimate disorder or not, labelling someone as lazy and useless never helps. Even if you don't believe in ADHD, it makes sense to investigate why someone is lazy or has cognitive problems and then to offer constructive advice (or to just shut up ;) )

Subtract81
11-28-12, 04:09 PM
slightly derailed? lol

i think people might be uncomfortable with someone who claims to be psychotic talking about killing, not logical in your mind perhaps but still people jump to conclusions.

Have you ever thought of killing someone? Or made any serious premeditated plans along those lines? You don't have to tell me of course i am just curious...

Personally i have a kind of almost subconscious ranking system of value, at one point in my life i valued all animal life equally, i became a vegetarian because of it. But that changed, i see the goal of the universe to become as intelligent and self aware as possible, and we as far as we know are the primary vehicles for this. I still value all life but humans have highest intelligence and therefore highest value, because i am one i am biased though, intelligent mammals just below (primates,orcas,dolphins etc not just because they are similar to humans but because of the intelligence they display) all the way down to bacteria and plantlife, and then things that serve no higher purpose in my view and need to be destroyed cancers etc, so by that logic i would always value a hedgehog over a spider, do you have that kind of ranking system at all or is it purely an ends justify means type thing no matter what that might entail, do u just feel emotions so intensely that nothing will get in your way to make sure these ends are met?

tudorose
11-28-12, 05:40 PM
I get what you mean Dmitri. I can't stop being adhd but I can stop being overweight (although I'm finding it hard it's not impossible whereas I can't stop being adhd in the same way I can't stop having brown eyes.

Subtract81
11-29-12, 06:23 AM
Very wise words fuzzy

(Just to clarify that heirachy was not steep, I value all forms of life highly, except those I believe serve no greater purpose (the cancers etc) by intelligence I meant only in a kind of vague way as there are many different types of intelligence I do eat plants and meat, so to say I value those as highly as humans would be to imply I would eat a human, and I hate hypocrisy, apologies if it sounded more clinical than I intended)

Fuzzy12
11-29-12, 12:18 PM
Very wise words fuzzy

(Just to clarify that heirachy was not steep, I value all forms of life highly, except those I believe serve no greater purpose (the cancers etc) by intelligence I meant only in a kind of vague way as there are many different types of intelligence I do eat plants and meat, so to say I value those as highly as humans would be to imply I would eat a human, and I hate hypocrisy, apologies if it sounded more clinical than I intended)

It's a dilemma for me Subtract. Theoretically, I'd say that I value all lifeforms equally but emotionally, I don't.

I think everyone has value not because they are of benefit to the world but because most lifeforms have an inherent desire to live. That is the reason why I try not to kill spiders. I don't like them but I don't want to be the one cutting it's life short. The spider obviously wants to live. It tries to escape when I catch it, it fights hard to survive. It breaks my heart when any animal loses that fight. :(

But yes, emotionally I value a hedgehog more than a spider and a human more than a hedgehog. If I had to make a choice I'd choose the human. From a moral point of view, I feel that's wrong. From an evolutionary point of view, I guess, it's normal.

Dmitri
11-30-12, 11:26 PM
Well yeah being a biology nerd Id like to point out morality is entirely manmade. Our basic instincts say to do whatever we can to survive and reproduce, as well as nurture our offspring to independance . See we find hedgehogs valuable in terms of life basically because as stated earlier- they have a high degree of cuteness. They share a lot of features of a human baby. so our natural instinct makes us all protective of cute things lol.

Out of trillions of organisms, all but humans live off of instinct alone. As morality is unnatural it is no wonder it interferes with natural instincts

kinda like pollution interferes with the biological equilibrium

Ralph Nadar 2016

Electra2
12-04-12, 11:16 PM
We could see it as we are the lucky animals who have evolved to and was created with the gift and responsability of moral,
so we can guard other species and care for them with the help of thought.
Every animals or species have their own special value.
Humens included.
Moral are one of those things that separates us from the physical leves of things,
we have feelings and can appreciate things like books and music.
If you look how intelligent and carefully every living thing is created.

Electra2
12-05-12, 12:09 AM
I guess good way to really deeply understand why we need morals are to live close to someone who really havnt got it and suffer that way. :umm1:

Hyperman87
12-05-12, 07:17 PM
I get really irritable when the meds wear off too although I'm the opposite to you Dmitri in that I think I am an empath. I feel all the emotions in the room as if they were my own. I'm over empathetic and put other people before myself too much. I can feel when somethings wrong with someone close (even when they were 500km away).

I suppose that's why this fascinates me so much coz it's the total opposite of what I experience. I want to understand it because the only time I see anything about it is like you said when the media labels a high profile person like Lance or on crime TV shows like Criminal Minds or Lie to me.

I think it is probably the most misunderstood condition and the label get slapped on people indiscriminately. I guess other than a consultant psychiatrist the only people who would really know in terms of being able to diagnose would be behavioural analysts for law enforcement agencies who probably see those on the more severe end of the spectrum.

Yeah, yes I'm a guy & I have problems with being too empathic. Damn it!:o

Subtract81
12-18-12, 10:49 PM
Dmitri I value orcas and dolphins over hedgehogs and they are nothing like human babies, I think everyone has their own hierarchy not necessarily based on human baby likeness.. mine tends to be skewed towards certain kinds of intelligence, maybe familiarity has something to do with it too

meadd823
12-19-12, 07:31 AM
Well yeah being a biology nerd Id like to point out morality is entirely manmade. Our basic instincts say to do whatever we can to survive and reproduce, as well as nurture our offspring to independance .

Out of trillions of organisms, all but humans live off of instinct alone. As morality is unnatural it is no wonder it interferes with natural instincts

kinda like pollution interferes with the biological equilibrium

Ralph Nadar 2016

I agree with you about the morals, personally I don't subscribe to them. I also agree with you on this

Haven't seen the barkley video though, honestly I've heard his name so much on these forums I hate him Haha. I get he's a genius butt so overrefferenced... if that's a word haha

Although I have read some of his stuff and looked at his videos = your right over rated.


I value all of life even though some of it's life forms annoy me more than others. I also value death in that if it were not for death their could be no life only existence.

sarek
12-19-12, 08:13 AM
I think morality itself can be a very simple and neutral concept.

If you simply do unto another the way you would want them to do unto you than you've pretty much covered the main issues already.
And that rule IMHO is so simple and practical that it almost transcends the admittedly often quite personal realm of morality and becomes a universal guideline.

mrs. dobbs
12-19-12, 09:00 AM
That is the reason why I try not to kill spiders. I don't like them but I don't want to be the one cutting it's life short. The spider obviously wants to live. It tries to escape when I catch it, it fights hard to survive. It breaks my heart when any animal loses that fight. :(

I don't kill spiders. I relocate them. I often pick them up by the thread and place them somewhere else, or put them in a glass and put them somewhere else. I guess then they can go on living to kill and eat something smaller. But on this day, they were spared by me for the reason that I don't need to kill them. It's totally unnecessary to kill them or flies or things that can be relocated.

But I will kill fleas, flea eggs, termites and god forbid roaches and their eggs... if they are in my living space. I stopped killing ants once I learned a way to get them to go somewhere else.

This doesn't contribute to the thread any, haha. Hm.

Sarek, the "do unto others" rule is one I try to live by, but I find that lots of people don't want to be done... how I want to be done. That doesn't sound right, but you get what I mean. It's weird. All I can do is my best. But what people want is so different.

Fuzzy12
12-19-12, 09:25 AM
I don't kill spiders. I relocate them. I often pick them up by the thread and place them somewhere else, or put them in a glass and put them somewhere else. I guess then they can go on living to kill and eat something smaller. But on this day, they were spared by me for the reason that I don't need to kill them. It's totally unnecessary to kill them or flies or things that can be relocated.

But I will kill fleas, flea eggs, termites and god forbid roaches and their eggs... if they are in my living space. I stopped killing ants once I learned a way to get them to go somewhere else.

This doesn't contribute to the thread any, haha. Hm.

Sarek, the "do unto others" rule is one I try to live by, but I find that lots of people don't want to be done... how I want to be done. That doesn't sound right, but you get what I mean. It's weird. All I can do is my best. But what people want is so different.

Sorry, thread hijack here but I've found a few methods of getting rid of insects without killing them:

With ants, talcum powder works wonders. They instantly vanish over night. For fruit flies or any other insects that tend to feast on grains, rice, etc. I'd recommend dried red chillies. For spiders, call my husband and he'll catch them and release them in the garden. :D

mrs. dobbs
12-19-12, 09:45 AM
Bra tips (good tips)! I learned about using some kind of flour outside of the house to get the ants away and discovered that once they get inside they won't cross a Tabasco or other hot sauce boundary. But not talcum powder... oh and that borax chalk.

I will use the dried red chilies tip!!

/end hijack

Electra2
12-19-12, 11:28 AM
I think about this thread everyday now.

One of the things was that I think there are one thing that is misunderstood with
genuine psychopaths and that is that a lot of them can't help it.
Its a not will thing but an ability.
Like some people have ADHD and people believe it's because of will power,
but it's not,and who are we to explain that to others...

In life people often get back what they give,specially love,care and friendship.
If one is not able to give that to others,for what ever reason,it doesnt matter that much,
but going around a whole life without love that is not very fun or easy.
Some people who lack empathy try to think empathic manually while to most people it comes naturally.
Since most people are able to do this it is not very easy to get it.
People who lack empathy sometimes have to think in emotional theories and read body language to understand others.

There are so many ways there are possible to care for others and show effection
like,if you want to give someone a simple cup of coffee.
It also about what cup you choose to give,how you poor the coffee,
if you made it good.
There are incredible many ways people show or can show love and care every day.

But I havent taken my ritalin because I forgot to take it, so I'm tired of thinking now,lol

Dmitri
12-22-12, 11:59 PM
This is probably the best point of ref for explaining how I think
These are the Journals of Eric Harris a psychopath who along with Dylan Klebold carried the columbine massacre. Eric and Dylan are two halves of me its so scary. Eric is full of anger, sadism, arrogance, self worth, Dylan is the emotional one, the depressed one, the gloomy one. Together is a deadly combo.
WARNING- Viewer discretion advised. Journal contents are unsettling, contain strong language, and are very offensive to many.
http://acolumbinesite.com/eric/writing/journal.html

Dmitri
12-24-12, 02:37 PM
Dmitri I value orcas and dolphins over hedgehogs and they are nothing like human babies, I think everyone has their own hierarchy not necessarily based on human baby likeness.. mine tends to be skewed towards certain kinds of intelligence, maybe familiarity has something to do with it too

actually, intellectually they are some of the smartest in the world only apes (smart primates- humans, chimps, neanderthalls, etc.) beat them.
i forgot what this is called but very few animals recognize their reflection. They see it as another animal. The only animals that recognize their reflection are apes and dolphins. The way they test this- if you show an ape his reflection and put a dot on the mirror where his face is, he'd touch his own face searching for the unfamiliar dot. Which is why sea mammals are so common in shows- their intelligence makes them easy to triain.

Dmitri
12-24-12, 02:42 PM
Sorry, thread hijack here but I've found a few methods of getting rid of insects without killing them:

With ants, talcum powder works wonders. They instantly vanish over night. For fruit flies or any other insects that tend to feast on grains, rice, etc. I'd recommend dried red chillies. For spiders, call my husband and he'll catch them and release them in the garden. :D

I actually used to love ants. I'd let them crawl all over me... then I picked up a fire ant and his friends tried to eat me. I could feel their bites!!!!!!!!!
that ruined it for me. I still love bugs but can't pick any bug with teeth up again. I can only touch worms...

mrs. dobbs
12-25-12, 03:35 AM
Isn't it crazy that the most painful bite in the world is an ant bite?

Worms are good, I like touching worms... well the composting kind anyway.

I don't like caterpillars though because they look weird. Definitely don't look like baby apes or dolphins. I do feel sorry for them sometimes when I'm so rejecting, they're cute and fat and just going about their business. But not others... Like this thing. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/meanandpinchy/2957326506/) It looks like a horrible stinging space schnauzer with a green safety vest on. It makes me freak out.

Dmitri
12-26-12, 06:12 PM
WTF yeah that's a moth caterpillar they're really creepy. Monarch Butterfly caterpillars are cute and fuzzy though

ZehRed
06-09-14, 01:50 PM
The thing with that is, ADD meds are very much a personal thing, which is why there are so many available, each person reacts differently. For example- you wanting to take a nap on Ritalin, I have never experienced a single ADD meds with sedative qualities.

For me any feeling- good or bad- is intensified with Adderall and Concerta. With Vyvanse I had the lowest irritability but it messes with your head after a while... which is why my meds now rotate like antibiotics lol

Concerta kills my emotions so much and makes me tired which is why I want to switch to Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexadrine or what ever the hell.

L-Amphetamine in Adderall seems good for me. I'm not that hyperactive anymore so I don't see why I should take methylphenidate (A sleeping pill that helps you concentrate)

Stevuke79
06-09-14, 02:23 PM
Sorry, thread hijack here but I've found a few methods of getting rid of insects without killing them:

With ants, talcum powder works wonders. They instantly vanish over night. For fruit flies or any other insects that tend to feast on grains, rice, etc. I'd recommend dried red chillies. For spiders, call my husband and he'll catch them and release them in the garden. :D

You forgot to give his phone number for us :) ..
(oh, .. you mean that wasn't a suggestion for us ..:giggle: )