View Full Version : Desoxyn and social anxiety


dafras
12-01-12, 06:52 AM
Well here is my story quickly summed up.
I am a pre-med bio student at a very well respected university.
I'm not really sure how I have made it this far with my inattentive adhd and my severe social anxiety which I believe is caused by the adhd. When I study it is in 10 to 20 minute sessions interrupted by 10 to 20 minutes of distracting thoughts or activities. As of late it has been difficult getting through college so I finally went to a psychiatrist, was properly diagnosed and prescribed adderall. When I take my adderall which I have only been on for 8 days it mostly rids me of my study problems and my social anxiety, not due to any euphoria or rush (except the first day). However I had several side effects such as extreme dry mouth, insomnia etc...as well as having inconsistent focus.

Anyway as a pre-med bio student I did several weeks worth of researching adderall before taking it. Recently I decided to look into other stimulant medications, as the stimulant category seems to be the most effective. Well after a few days of research I have become quite intrigued by desoxyn. (Please don't lecture me, I am well informed and my psychiatrist is open minded. I realize fully that desoxyn is meth-amphetamines.) Anyway I became attracted to the idea of desoxyn for four different primary reasons.

1. It seems to be very effective for many who try it as compared to their experiences with other stimulant medications.
2. It lasts longer than other amphetamines.
3. Many people report that there are less or less severe side effects and less pns stimulation.
4. Some people who have anxiety and take it, often report anxiolytic effects, this effect in particular is very appealing to me and the real reason that I am posting this.

So my question is, to those who take it and suffer from anxiety/social anxiety, how does it affect your anxiety?

Thank you

NotoriousPyro
12-20-12, 03:22 PM
Methamphetamine should be a last resort. It is highly neurotoxic, directly damaging dopamine neurons. Therapeutic doses, less so but it is far more neurotoxic than methylphenidate or amphetamine.

Try others for at least a month before you write them off. Finding the right dosage is essential. Also, combining your ADHD med with an drug for anxiolysis is more safe than using methamphetamine.

dafras
12-22-12, 09:05 PM
Do you have any evidence to support this or is it based on you having heard it somewhere?

NotoriousPyro
12-22-12, 09:45 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=methamphetamine+neurotoxicity

And for the record, methylphenidate shows no sign of dopamine receptor toxicity.

Edit:
Further reading:
http://www.le.ac.uk/users/cd133/davidson%20BrResRev01.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12890883

dafras
12-25-12, 06:36 PM
Sorry i should have specified. What i meant was, what evidence is there that of the amphetamine class of drugs that methamphetamines is anymore neurotoxic than just plain adderall?

NotoriousPyro
12-25-12, 11:08 PM
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it has something to do with its lipophilicity which significantly potentiates its activity via increasing its bioavailability through withstanding degredation by MAO.

Not only in dopamine release and reuptake but this inadvertently increases oxidative stress. Less MAO activity, plus release and reuptake inhibition produces a lot of stress on the postsynaptic receptors.

befitnessnow
12-26-12, 06:32 AM
Methamphetamine should be a last resort. It is highly neurotoxic, directly damaging dopamine neurons. Therapeutic doses, less so but it is far more neurotoxic than methylphenidate or amphetamine.

Try others for at least a month before you write them off. Finding the right dosage is essential. Also, combining your ADHD med with an drug for anxiolysis is more safe than using methamphetamine.

Sorry i should have specified. What i meant was, what evidence is there that of the amphetamine class of drugs that methamphetamines is anymore neurotoxic than just plain adderall?

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it has something to do with its lipophilicity which significantly potentiates its activity via increasing its bioavailability through withstanding degredation by MAO.

Not only in dopamine release and reuptake but this inadvertently increases oxidative stress. Less MAO activity, plus release and reuptake inhibition produces a lot of stress on the postsynaptic receptors.

And this is precisely why it is completely nonsensical to state something as a fact when it is nothing more than a theory. There's no long-term studies on the use of therapeutic doses of pharmaceutical Methamphetamine to form a concrete answer about this.

dafras
12-27-12, 06:55 AM
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it has something to do with its lipophilicity which significantly potentiates its activity via increasing its bioavailability through withstanding degredation by MAO.

Not only in dopamine release and reuptake but this inadvertently increases oxidative stress. Less MAO activity, plus release and reuptake inhibition produces a lot of stress on the postsynaptic receptors.

Yes I realize that it is much more lipophilic than normal amphetamines but that is what increases its bioavailability. What you might not be taking into account is the lower dosing of desoxyn compared to adderall. Many people who take 50mg+ of adderall a day may only take 15mg of desoxyn a day. So while it maybe true that desoxyn is more neurotoxic on a per mg basis, it may not hold true for daily users of the medication.

And this is precisely why it is completely nonsensical to state something as a fact when it is nothing more than a theory. There's no long-term studies on the use of therapeutic doses of pharmaceutical Methamphetamine to form a concrete answer about this.

Yeah I really can't even find any evidence that it is actually more neurotoxic anyway. Most studies are done on street meth which not only has levo-methamphetamine but is also usually very unpure with other added drugs.

NotoriousPyro
12-27-12, 01:53 PM
http://mediasite.video.ufl.edu/Mediasite/Play/cce2155c759040d68a242d42ea819ffd1d

Watch and learn.

befitnessnow
12-27-12, 04:25 PM
http://mediasite.video.ufl.edu/Mediasite/Play/cce2155c759040d68a242d42ea819ffd1d

Watch and learn.

This lecture is not only about street Methamphetamine but also discusses it at beyond extreme levels compared to that of prescribed doses of Desoxyn. That alone completely nullifies this lecture of having any relevance to this topic. This is the exact same idea as comparing Adderall to street Amphetamine and then saying Adderall is highly neurotoxic based on studies done on street amp... it doesn't make any sense.

I'm not lying when I say there's no long term studies done on these medications (which I'm sure you know), so we have no way of knowing the long term effects of any of them at prescribed doses. Does the methyl attachment of Desoxyn potentially add a higher possibility of neurotoxicity? In theory, it makes sense but it's just that, a theory, which is abstract.

Methamphetamine, when discussed in it's pharmaceutical form versus it's street form is essentially a homonym. Same word, two vastly different drugs. I think that's the part that is hanging you up.

NotoriousPyro
12-28-12, 12:13 AM
The part I'm talking about is the way amphetamine mimics endogenous neurotransmitters. For amphetamine, it's not to bad since it isn't stable against MAO and it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier so easily. Methamphetamine, however, is like injecting amphetamine directly into the brain, there's little enzymatic activity outside of the brain.

Methylphenidate has been shown to have protective effects against methamphetamine poisoning and does not have the same neurotoxicity.

I completely agree with you on comparing pharmaceuticals to street drugs. But I just don't think, no matter how pure methamphetamine is, stops it being neurotoxic.

If you were to inject pharmaceutical-grade methamphetamine, you'd see the same results as street methamphetamine. If you injected amphetamine or methylphenidate, you don't see it so much, thanks to their instability against enzymatic activity.

Special-Ks
12-28-12, 09:03 PM
There was a really good, descriptive thread posted here about someone's experience with Desoxyn. Having trouble finding it, but I remember them saying Desoxyn felt smoother and more subtle compared to other medications. I got the impression that it treated the symptoms with fewer side effects and less stimulation, which is good.

I had a similar experience as you with Adderall (IR tablets). I found that taking lower doses/breaking the tabs in half got rid of the side effects and gave me more consistent focus, and that's what I do now. It's much more manageable for the anxiety part.

It's unfortunate that Desoxyn is "methamphetamine," since that name shifts focus away from an objective inquiry into its benefits/side effect profile in favor of undue alarm and demonization.

Anyway, good luck with pre-med stuff, especially O-Chem, lol.

dafras
12-30-12, 03:21 AM
There was a really good, descriptive thread posted here about someone's experience with Desoxyn. Having trouble finding it, but I remember them saying Desoxyn felt smoother and more subtle compared to other medications. I got the impression that it treated the symptoms with fewer side effects and less stimulation, which is good.

I had a similar experience as you with Adderall (IR tablets). I found that taking lower doses/breaking the tabs in half got rid of the side effects and gave me more consistent focus, and that's what I do now. It's much more manageable for the anxiety part.

It's unfortunate that Desoxyn is "methamphetamine," since that name shifts focus away from an objective inquiry into its benefits/side effect profile in favor of undue alarm and demonization.

Anyway, good luck with pre-med stuff, especially O-Chem, lol.
Yeah thats why I wanted to try and get my pdoc to prescribe it to me. Unfortunately he won't because "I think people use that stuff to get high." Anyway anyone know how to possibly convince him? He seemed pretty dead set against it unfortunately. And thanks I actually finished O chem last semester though.

Oznog16
01-31-13, 10:54 PM
My current prescription consists of 8, 5mg desoxyn per day, 4 in the morning and 4 in the afternoon. I usually only take half the prescribed amount on days when I am not around people or focus is an issue.

I find I am not irritated by crowds, multitasking or distractions as much or less than when I was on adderall. The best point is the desoxyn doesn't give me that jagged edge feeling adderall did and I actually sleep better on desoxyn.

The down side I have with desoxyn is this. I live in a small town with a small town pharmacy and everyone knows everything here. I get the generic medication and it says METHANPHAMINE right across the bottle and I am afraid of what people think. The pharmacist must order specifically for me because he says "nobody else uses it" and he doen't want to get stuck with it if I discontinue. I hate going to check on it and having him say, "your METHANPHAMINE is not in". It makes me look like an addict. It only comes in 100 count bottles and I must have 240, This makes my pharmacist frustrated because he is always short and I am always getting the "We owe you thing". Sometimes the supply warehouse is out and I have to go for weeks without it. This is one of the main reasons I cut my dose in half on days I can get by with it.