View Full Version : PsychoDrama


healthwiz
07-03-03, 01:55 PM
I am putting psychodrama under therapy because it is a therapy modality. for those who want to know more about psychodrama, simply search the internet, and also go to the ASGPP (American Society of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama).

I have been in psychodrama for 2 years now, and have been through literally hundreds of hours of therapy through this method. This year, my experience has intensified, as I have begun training to become a psycho-drama practitioner, and because I have begun attending the serious psychodrama conferences. From May to July of this year, I will have attended 3 multiday workshops and one day long workshop, in addition to my regular psychodrama training.

Most recently, I attended a 5 seminar in NY, and came away with an awesome new understanding of who I am, and what effected me in the past. I'll include excerpts here from psychodrama journaling.

If anyone has questions about psychodrama, feel free to ask.

Shalom, love and peace,

Jonathan

healthwiz
07-03-03, 02:05 PM
Here is an excerpt of my recent experience. I spent 5 days and nights at the psychodrama camp.

Hi

I just returned from NY. What an adventure....staying at psychodrama camp basically, for 5 days of intense psychodrama training and therapy.

35 hours of therapy in 5 days....

very intense experience...

i discovered why the kitchen is my hot spot..where i get very angry (it was where most of my abuse took place, but I was not consciously aware of that until this trip) - so now that I'm aware, I tell my wife, lets not go to the kitchen to argue when I'm already upset about something, as that is a trigger location. It worked...I avoided having a fit by staying out of the kitchen while upset... It also relieved me to know what was the connection between some uncontrollable fits and my childhood. Somehow it all seems to come together better now. It was strange, because it just all of a sudden dawned on me, while I was playing a role of someone else's father in their drama, and I was instructed to argue, be abusive, and throw some pots and pans, in the role of this other person's father. Bamm, it hit me, all my abuse was in the kitchen, or most of it. And then it hit me, most of my tantrums or outbursts in my adult life, are in the kitchen. What a realization. This was a very healing realization. Now I really understand that these early fears and emotions have to be discovered and cleaned out before I can go on being everything I can be in life. Its truly astonishing how symptoms as an adult mirror the traumas of the past, without even realizing it. It seems very obvious, but its not so obvious. Who knew where my abuse took place? Who knew where my outbursts took place? Years of therapy and no one knew.

That was a big piece for me, but it was not my biggest. I did a psychodrama of my own, and it was so intense. I was going along entering the drama, step by step, instructed by the directors, one holding my hand, the other talking as well, and I'm choosing my characters, and then my script begins, and I start going through the script, half thinking nothing is going to happen, this is not going anywhere. I thought I chose the wrong script....I kept wanting to change the script, but the director told me I had a contract to do the script I chose, and the group had all voted for that script, so I plodded forward with reticence and faith. These are master directors and I believed in them. At one point, the one not holding my hand put her hand on my shoulder and asked me a question.....I heard the question and collapsed.....I hit the floor hard, very hard, and cried and cried uncontrollably sobbing, and hitting the floor with my fists, crying the floor all wet with my tears, and I wailed, wailed from a deep personal interior zone that no one hears, a wail of pain that seers the inner core of the listener, a wail of pain covered by layers and layers of protection.....and I cried so hard that later my face was alarmingly red and swollen, broken blood corpuscles evident everywhere from the sheer force of the tears. And it was out...the pain....it was out...no longer buried deep within my inner cavity, no longer being held down by my intellect or my psyche, the pain was out and I was able to move forward.

The drama did not end there, with the pain, it progressed through several stage. I was coached to stand up, dry my eyes, blow my nose, and others were asked to play roles for me, in my place, and I was asked to watch myself, as others played my roles, so I could see the big picture. It was very healing, each stage of the way, to see myself from outside the stage, and then to go back in and play myself, and to continue on the jouney of the drama. Eventually my journey ended with my doctorate in hand. It was an amazing transformation.

Jon

Tara
07-03-03, 03:09 PM
Psycho-Drama sounds very interesting and theraputic. Is it similar to play therapy thats used for young children?

Andrew
07-03-03, 04:31 PM
Wow Jon...

This sounds like an awesome experience. I would love to hear more :)

healthwiz
07-03-03, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by livingwithadd
Psycho-Drama sounds very interesting and theraputic. Is it similar to play therapy thats used for young children?

Good question. I am not sure about play therapy, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is actually a therapy method of playing with children so they can open up about their feelings through the act of playing. Children generally are not aware of "feelings" the way an adult in therapy is and are not capable of vocalizing the way an adult can. For instance, using a doll and a doll house with a child, a therapist can see how the child sees the roles in their own house through the way the child plays in a pretend house.

Psycho-drama is very different. It is a method of taking a person's personal experience, and acting it out on stage, with the help of other group members and with an audience, and a director/therapist. Actors in the drama tend to be from one therapeutic group in order to have the trust level necessary to share personal experiences. So if a member is upset because they had an argument with another person, for example, and the group wants to re-enact that, the director will find out where, when, etc. So the stage will be set with a car, where the argument took place, actors will be chosen to play parts, props such as scarves to add the right colors to the scene will be used, chairs can represent the seats in the car. Then the actors start getting into place and saying their lines, under the direction of the director, who is getting input from the person who's drama they are replicating. The person who's drama is being re-enacted is called the protagonist. The protagonist plays themselves in the drama, but often switches with other actors momentarily to get the perspective of many views. Through this process, a person gets to re-enact a drama in a safe environment, find out how they would have liked to have responded, openly share and discover how they are feeling at that moment, why they are so uncomfortable and angry about that moment. This leads to much insight for the protagonist, but also for the auxilliary actors and for the audience. Everyone generally learns something deep from each drama, regardless of their role. By switching roles, one expands their ability to see the world through others' eyes, which develops compassion and empathy. It also leads to incredible insights into what the other person was thinking or feeling at the moment, that would have been hard to assume without actually playing that person's role. Everyone shares at the end, to help process all the information that was developed.

Please ask more questions and I will be happy to answer.

Jon

healthwiz
07-24-03, 12:12 PM
This year I attended my first major psychological conference in Santa Fe, NM, in May. I did so with reservation, because of the money factor, and the psychological factor, that I was not a therapist, so why was I attending? However, my trainer in psychodrama insisted I go, despite any objections or issues I may have posed. She believed my issues were not so rooted in reality, even if reality at the moment matched them, but actually deeply rooted in the neurosis of believing I did not have enough, whether it be money or brains or time. I eventually listened to her, and did go, and turned out to be what my room mate called the golden boy of the conference. It seemed I could do no wrong, and at every turn was being praised and taking part in something great everyday. I learned alot about my professional aspirations there and I met great people. That was a great experience.

Funny thing is, you ADDers will understand, I was not resolute about attending the conference and only finally made my decision to actually board that plane about 4 hours before departure. I woke up my wife and said, "Honey, I'm going to go!" This was my 5th time changing my mind so she was not surprised, but she had to get up, and help me pack at such an early hour of the night.

The next conference was in NY in June, and I again vascilated, should I or should I not go, do I have the money? I actually kept my wife up that night into the wee hours of the morning, doing our finances, to make sure all bills could be paid if I went. Again, I only decided 4 hours before the departing flight. I woke her up again, and we did the same song and dance, getting me ready to go in the early hours. At that conference, I learned so much about myself it was unimagineable that I would not have gone.

On cue, in July, there was a conference in Virginia, with one of the great masters of psychodrama, and again, I vascilated and cancelled my plans, cancelled my registration, and on cue, 4 hours in advance, I told my wife, I need to go, I need to be there, I need to pursue my professional aspirations. If I don't do it for myself, who will I thought. But why, oh why, do I have these vascillations. It is driving me and my wife nuts!!! I missed the 6 am flight and rescheduled the 8 am flight, like a small miracle was always waiting for me, saying go, go, go, and still my round trip flight, booked hours before departure, was only $225.00 . So someone was on my side.

At this seminar, I learned from the master, the founder of psychodrama, an experience no one serious about this pursuit would ever want to miss. I experienced having my own psychodrama while there, and the topic was of my choice. So I made the topic, my vascillation. I wanted to find out why I vascillated so much. What in my life has lead me to this changing my mind, this self-doubt? Not an easy drama, because no one knew where it was going. It took 3 hours to do the drama and 2 hours to process the drama. The entire last day of this seminar was devoted to my issue. From 945 am to 345 pm, minus a 1 hour lunch, was devoted to my vascillation issue. That is typically unheard of in psychodrama, where time is usually shared among participants a little more, so that more than one drama a day can be done. However, this was the master, and no one complained, even on their evaluation sheets. I suppose it was educational and insight provoking for everyone to go deep into my issue, as maybe a little of that issue is there for others. That is always the case in psychodrama, that one persons' drama and the ensuing insights, lead to insights into each persons lives.

The result was for me that I was substituting advice for love. I sought advice from others, especially opinions from my parents, and other important persons, in place of the love I wanted. My parents simply didn't dish out the love and confidence and approval very well, depsite being highly educated and probably well meaning. I wanted more from them, so I sought their opinions, which inevitably were in conflict with my path that I chose, in one detail or another. It also put me in the path of abuse, quite often, as one of my parents has a very non-supportive abusive style, and the other parent has a sabotaging style that appears supportive. This lead to confusion. I didn't know who was right, one parent, the other parent, the information from the more removed and more objective world, or me, and I felt I would be very foolish if I followed my path and the others turned out to be right. Confusion and fear....fear of being wrong and foolish. I vascillated back and forth on every decision, driving myself nuts. And I did this to friends, asking for advice, even if there was no reason to believe thier advice would even be beneficial or knowledgeable. Why; because to me advice was my love replacement. If they would give me advice, they loved me.

Well, this is a confusing way to lead a life. I can see that my passions are my answer, and that the fears, opinion,s or passions of others are not going to help me attain my passions or follow my dreams or overcome my fears. Some fears must be heeded if there is a serious danger involved, but in general, professional choices of career do not involve for me so much danger, as they do involve issues of money, studies, time, potential for success and happiness. Passion is the secret here, as personal passion is important. We all have things we love, that make us individuals and help us define our lives. No one else can determine who we are. Removing us from our passions certainly does not bring us any closer to understanding who we are or help us lead more productuve or more enriched lives. It does the opposite, and other people's advice, unless they are truly supportive, can also put us one step further outside ourselves and on someone else's path.

Love, furthermore, can not be replaced with advice. They are two seperate things. If I want love, I will look for love, which in general means a person being supportive. If I want advice, I will get it from sources who are more objective. If I want direction, I will look to myself, my passion. Now I know, when I speak to my parents, I only want their love, not their advice. When I want advice, I will get it from more objective sources. When I want love, I will go to those in my life who are truly supportive, who understand I am not there to recieve advice. When I want direction, I will go to my passion. I understand I may not get what I want from my parents, as they believe giving advice is love, and they may not be able to give love the way I want to receive it, but at least I now know what I am there for. Confusing the two, love and advice, can be a very confusing experience.

Just some thoughts to share from my world of psychodrama!

Jonathan

Dannydorm
07-24-03, 12:48 PM
and then there are the people who try to GIVE advice (unsolicited of course), try to put their opinions on others,tell them what they should or shouldn't be doing - as a way to get love of course.they see it as their responsbility to save the other person. why? so the other person will love them or see them as their hero - forever indebted to them for their wonderful advice.that also is not about love.it is also a desparation to be loved and i see it all the time.obviously it is not the other person they should be saving. it is themselves they should be saving.neither receiving nor giving advice is ever about love.

ThoughtGuide
09-10-03, 12:18 AM
healthwiz:

after reading about your experiences I am very interested in learning more about psychodrama. would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

Thanks!

waywardclam
09-10-03, 02:53 AM
This is a VERY interesting post.

I've been on stage all my life as an actor and improv comic, I love the environment. But doing therapy there is not something I ever imagined!

And I thank you for sharing your wisdoms, healthwiz, a lot of them are transferable to my life and experience...

healthwiz
09-10-03, 10:32 PM
thoughtguide

I would be happy to help you with learning about psychodrama. One area to look is the ASGPP website : http://www.asgpp.org/

Also, if you tell me what city you are in, I can tell you all the psychodramatists in your area, and their credentials.

I am happy to answer questions on this subject, in public posts on forum, or through private messages or through emails.

Please let me know how I can help.

Jonathan

healthwiz
09-10-03, 10:38 PM
Paul

Thank you; its nice to know that my experiences are shared, maybe the details are different, but I understand.

As for psychodrama and drama of any kind, Dr JL Moreno, the founder of psychodrama, was a theater major before he obtained his medical degree in Vienna and became a psychiatrist with very innovative ideas. Psychodrama and Moreno are credited with creating the first form of group therapy. He directed these very personal group therapy drama's on public stage in front of huge audiences in huge auditoriums in NY city, based on some brilliance he was inspired by. His methods were developed in this way, and today, psychodrama is a very powerful tool, known for being able to perform miracles in peoples lives as no other modality of therapy can.

Your ability in theatre and interest is a great first step towards psychodrama. If you want information on how to check it out in your area, let me know.

Jonathan

waywardclam
09-11-03, 03:01 AM
I'm in Thunder Bay, Ontario, so I highly doubt there is anyone in my area. It's a tiny little backwater town about the same distance from Toronto as Florida is long. *sigh*

healthwiz
09-11-03, 08:21 AM
hmm... i use to go to algonquin park
!!!!

healthwiz
09-11-03, 08:47 AM
You are right Paul; everyone is near or in Toronto. What are you doing way way way up there in Thunder Bay? Life must be different and interesting up there!!

Jonathan

waywardclam
09-11-03, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by healthwiz
Life must be different and interesting up there!!

Jonathan

Well, yer half right... :D :D :D

healthwiz
10-06-03, 01:15 PM
A few people have expressed interest in psychodrama as a means of obtaining therapy. I highly suggest it. Several of my ADD behaviors have improved markedly while a psychodrama student. For one, I am on time to most places. Secondly, I am not painfully self conscious in social situations anymore. I use to feel out of place and now I feel just fine. This I believe is a direct result of working through the emotional scar tissue layers. I have more layers to work on, but enough major work has been done that I feel comfortable with myself now. I have also learned to modulate my speech patterns better, based on feedback from the group environment, that my speech patterns were too fast and disjointed for people to clearly understand my point. This took time, and recognition from others, in order to develop clearer speaking habits. I wasn't even aware that people had a hard time following me.... I have also learned to stay out of damaging relationships, including those with family or friends. I used to be so addicted to those nasty relationships, but they just fed my negative self image and left me depressed. It took time to be able to wean myself away from those people, but eventually I developed a stronger sense of self-esteem so that those types of relationships became obsolete and unnecessary and undesireable.

I am describing two years of psychodrama, and can't really give you the full picture. However, I will say that benefits began within the first 3 months of training...so I didn't have to wait two years to start seeing changes.

Hope that is helpful, and feel free to ask for more information.

Jonathan

vinceptor
10-25-03, 02:22 PM
I've been in a group which uses psychodrama mostly, sprinkled with a lot of other stuff, for a little over a year.

I still have mixed feelings about it. I find the sessions stressful and feel wrung out afterwards. I have always been on guard around groups of people, and socializing of any kind is hard work. I am also working on getting over a long-time stage fright, and acting out is doubly hard.

I think the technique is useful, but not a panacaea. I would also suggest making sure that your therapist knows enough about AD/HD to know the difference between resistance and the usual bubble-headedness.

I do have family-of-origin issues, and many of them relate to my AD/HD, but my AD/HD symptoms are neurological, not psychological. It doesn't help when a therapist calls random tuning out a "bad habit".

Other than that, I have gotten some pretty good insights. But I have also noticed that visualization works better for me than psychodrama.

I'm sure other people's experiences will probably differ.

Ken

mctavish23
10-25-03, 10:53 PM
Impressive post. I dont know anyone in our neck of the woods that does that. Most of us are cognitive-behavioral practitioners but certainly not all.In fact you have to be "ecclectic" today in order to do your job effectively. I spend most of the day doing Play therapy with lots of Reality, Cognitve-Behavioral. RBT and some Paradoxical on the side. I'm impressed with the debt of the post and the excellent comments.

healthwiz
10-26-03, 01:26 AM
Hi Ken

Thanks for sharing your psychodrama experience. I agree, the experience will be different for each person. Even more important, may be the relationship between the participants and the director. I know from experience, the quality, training, and level of credential, make a difference in psychodrama results. I am being trained, fortunately, by one of the recognized masters. In psychodrama, the designation of CP means Certified Practitioner. This designation requires 780 hours of psychodrama training, 100 hours of supervision, exams by the ASGPP, boht written and performance, which I think include performing psychodrama in front of the exam board. A masters degree is also required. The CP is the basic practitioner disignation. It takes from 4-7 years to achieve. After that is the TEP designation, which is the Trainer, Educator, Practitioner. This requires more than twice as much training as the CP, and truly takes 5-10 more years to achieve. I highly recommend seeking out a CP or TEP if one is available, as a psychodrama director. Obviously, the TEP has more training, but the training of a CP is nothing to scoff at. My wife goes to a group led by a CP, MSW, who is nothing short of miraculous. The CP designation is worthy of respect. The TEP designation is really an amazing achievement in psychodrama.

Well, I thought that background on training might be of interest. More info available at the ASGPP site, easily located in a websearch.

Take care

Jonathan

healthwiz
10-26-03, 01:39 AM
mctavish

Nice to know there are some therapists on line here. I'm glad you find the post interesting and filled with depth. Accurate you are, as those experiences were deep and brought about deep insights that have changed my life.

My success now, is nothing short of being a direct result of the work I have been doing in those psychodrama nights and those intensive seminars. I am finally alive, smething I had been looking for a long time to happen.

I might even become a psychodrama therapist myself one of these days. My trainer is really pushing me (supporting me) to get off my duff and sign up for the graduate school psychology courses and program I am always talking about. As my mind clears, I am becoming more and more open to that idea. I still have some issues to deal with, including the issue of being in the role of a therapist, expected to save other people's lives. I was in that role enough as a child, expected to fix the crazy lives of my parents, and the crazy dynamics of the household I was in. But I am learning now, that the role of the therapist is not that role, not the savior, not the advise giver, not the fixer. As I get that through my head and my heart, and feel more confident that I have grown and will not fall into that trap - of expecting myself to save others- then I will be more ready to pursue the masters or doctoral degree in clinical psychology that I have always wanted. I really have a strong interest in psychology, but knew that without resolving these inner conflicts and fears and traps, that I would be unhappy or distraught in the role of therapist.

I'm sure there are psychodramatists in Minnesota, if you want me to look some up, let me know what area to look in.

Take care

Jonathan

healthwiz
10-26-03, 01:43 AM
Paul

I have been thinking, that just because you are way up there in bumm __ egypt, :) does not mean you can't get a taste of psychodrama. You can attend intensive weekend or multiday psychodrama seminars. That would be more practical, considering your location. It is nice to take a few days, travel somewhere, do some intense psychodrama, get some great insights and growth, and then return home. If you want info, let me know.

Jon

mctavish23
10-26-03, 03:41 PM
Jonathan.
Excellent feedback. I wish you much luck in your endeavors. Im sure there are psychodramatist's in the Twin Cities area but in N Minn I don't know of any. Duluth may have some tho. You tend to fall into your own niche so to speak in whatever style you gravitate towards. I love working with kids, especially teens. My niche reamins in Cognitive-Behavioral and Play therapies.I also have fun with Paradoxical therapy as well. I did study some Psychodrama in school but it was not something I gravitated towards.It is a well respected technique and Im gald to learnit is successful with ADHD adults.Take care.

healthwiz
10-26-03, 06:23 PM
Mctavish

You have mentioned paradoxical therapy a couple times, and I'm interested in knowing what it is. I have never heard of it. Sounds interesting. I think play therapy would be wonderful to practice. I also believe cognitive behavioral is capable of small miracles too. I've been through a lot of therapy - lol - and the cognitive worked quick and got me on track effectively at a time in my life when I was depressed and having obsessive depressing thoughts. That was really the beginning of therapy for me. I am amazed looking back, how much was accomplished in those visits, basically working on changing my assumptions.

Later, I really wanted to do the deep work, and get the ugly stuff out, and that is why I gravitated towards psychodrama. No other therapy really allowed me to purge myself of the deep stuff, and being afraid to do so, it was a relief to find that psychodrama not only brought it up, but also brought some consoling, comfort, and healing in the process.

Anyhow, my point is, that I respect all modes of therapy, and think there is a place for everything. Most therapists practice a few modes of therapy I think.

So let me know about this paradoxical therapy.

Thanks

Jonathan

healthwiz
01-08-04, 10:28 AM
Someone here answered the poll that they were in psychodrama group now, (besides myself) :) so I am wondering who that might be? If you don't want to say so out here, please feel free to PM me. I'm always interested in talking to other psychodrama students/practitioners.

Thanks

Jon

Draga
04-25-04, 08:32 PM
Jon,

Would that also help with ppl who have repressed memories of abuse and can not remember details of what happened but still have flashbacks?

mctavish23
07-16-04, 12:10 AM
Play therapy was developed around 1949 by a therapist named Virginia Axeline, The theory is relatively simple in that all children the world over play. Play is a child's natural medium of expression. Doing Play requres creativity and the ability to pick up on both verbal and nonverbal cues.

Both techniques require something akin to role playing but they are very very different.I have no expertise in Psychodrama (other than studying about it in grad school)and I dont do group therapy either. The truth is that being ADHD myself I dont have the patience...lol.If I had to be nondirective and ask " How did that make you feel?" I'd have a stroke. Guess that's why my niche is with kids...lol.

Thanks for the info. I think it's a fascinating topic.

paulbf
07-29-04, 07:03 PM
I voted:

"I'm interested but I would be afraid to try psychodrama."

That's about all I care to say about it right now.

: - (

mctavish23
08-01-04, 08:50 AM
Sorry it took me so long to reply to the question about Paradoxical therapy. I just re read the posts and saw that I didn't answer you. Paradoxical therapy is like "reverse psychology". You do the opposite of what is expected. In my practice, I use it with kids who are being teased or picked on or who are constantly fighting with sibs (above and beyond the usual). Keep in mind too that my caseload is comprised of ages 6-19, with about 80+% being ADHD (along with some other comorbid condition llike ODD or Generalized Anxiety Disorder (Overanxious Disorder of Childhood ) or
Major Depression or Dysthymic Disorder, etc.).

The way that I normally use it is to role play whatever scenario the child seems to be having trouble with and then practice it. I also use a brief deep muscle relaxation training technique with guided visual imagery. I then combine that with some ognitive-Behavioral thought stopping and have the child and parents practice it at home.Thats a very brief overview of how I do some of my work and try and incorporate Paradoxical therapy techniques.Remember, with a bunch of kids who get bored very quickly it has to be fun or thay won't do it. Thats where my being ADHD comes in handy because I'll get bored as fast if not faster than they will, so it has to be fun for me too.
I hope that answers your question and Im sorry for not checking it out earlier.Take care.

akell
08-01-04, 11:16 AM
How long is psychodrama therapy? If you have been going for two years, I guess it's lnng term?

Onwari
08-04-04, 09:59 PM
Please forgive my ignorance...but what is psycodrama? I "scanned" most of the posts, but I never really got the jist of what it is. Does it lighten up the load of the result of ADHD symptoms? Please enlighten me. Where can I find it in my area? I am in West Central Ohio.

paulbf
08-04-04, 10:23 PM
Onwari, second post in this thread http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81972#post81972
I suspect the conclusion was something more positive, role playing a better way to handle those icky situations. The thing is I don't do outbursts. It would be a real challenge to talk myself into that though I've also been through years of therapy, I'm so sick of the shrink trying to wrangle tears out. The first real therapy session, I remember they made a video & I was a mess, sobbing as mctavish describes above. It was somewhat a relief but in other ways just a painful re-living.

I don't think this has anything to do with ADD but of course if one could resolve all that old painful crap we all have to some degree, one would have less interfering with one's thinking and functioning.

mctavish23
08-05-04, 07:53 AM
It's a specific type of psychotherapy.Actually, its a technique of group therapy in which individuals express their own assigned emotional problems in dramatization.I have no clue if there's outcome data on ADHD. The only "therapy" data I know of is that for hyperactive children, only behavior mod (besides meds) works. SInce I don't work with adults I don't have any info on effectiveness of therapies. I do know however, that behavior mod for hyperactivity, regardless of age, would be the most effectvie therapy.There's really not much data on Inattention in adults and hopefully that area will be studied more.

Your question was a good one. Thats why we're all here. Im glad you asked it. Meanwhile, there are many more forum members who know a lot more about psychodrama than I do.Good luck.

vinceptor
08-05-04, 11:40 AM
I haven't checked out this thread for a while....

I believe I was the one "currently undergoing psychodramatic therapy", but no longer. I finally decided it wasn't right for me (or the therapist, or both) and quit.

I guess the key result was digging for "repressed memories" with P-drama was difficult and I had much better results using visualization (although I don't see how the two techniques couldn't overlap to some degree -- you could close your eyes, picture a scene, and go through a guided dialogue with the image). Unfortunately, this was a passing therapeutic emphasis and it went back to more "beat the pillow" type p-drama which annoyed me too much to be very effective..... Oh well....

Another thought. I noticed that p-drama could very well become an "AD/HD hobby", since Weiss Type I AD/HDs ("active enertainers") wouldn't have stage-fright, but just the opposite. But I think a love of performing is not a good or effective motivation for engaging in p-drama. That's just another version of the "group junkie" phenomenon.

I explicitly set a 1-year probation period for my participation because I didn't want to end up one of those people who spent 10 years in therapy stuck in the same holding pattern. I'm too old to consider that kind of thing an interesting adventure -- time is too precious.

Sorry if this sounds a little cynical, but it is based on (maybe not enough) personal experience.

Ken

paulbf
08-05-04, 11:48 AM
I dread the thought of performing. I refused to even beat a pillow in the shrink's office. Maybe it'd be good but I can't do it. Very uncomfortable.

vinceptor
08-05-04, 12:01 PM
This is not to say I got no benefit whatsoever from group psychodrama. There is a value to being in a supportive social situation, as opposed to a "hostile" one -- like being called to the front of the class to read your homework (for example) or putting on a slideshow at a business meeting (another one).

I'm a firm believer that "practice makes possible" is a key AD/HD principle. Just going through the motions of acting out is therapy in that it *is* practice in social interaction (even though a tiny bit, but every little bit...).

Again, it's not to say that it wasn't painful, especially when the group "busts" you for a brain-f*rt... doesn't seem so supportive then....

Ken

paulbf
08-26-04, 10:04 PM
I decided this just doesn't suit me. Sounds helpful but maybe not for me.

healthwiz
08-27-04, 01:06 AM
Psychodrama, what is it. There is no small question! That is a huge one!

I will tell you what I know, I think mostly from the view point of what I have seen it do or what it has done for me.

First, is it long term? Yes, I think it is. I think people gain a lot of benefit from psychodrama in a single year. However, with all modes of therapy that work well, the patient wants more. It is extremely growth producing. It allows insightfulness and developement to occur, that perhaps (as in my case) the client has been waiting a lifetime to experience.

For me, psychodrama has been a breakthrough method. It has gotten rid of that feeling that I don't know what the hell I feel. It has gotten rid of that "I'm fine" stoic attitude. It has gotten rid of my constant verbal rambling and barrage - ie, I talked too much and in patterns that annoyed people because it was hard to follow. It taught me patience. It taught me understanding for my fellow human being. It taught me to understand that other peoples issues with me are most often issues with themselves. I didnt learn that on an intellectual level, I learned it on an integrative level so it all combines with emotional and psychological and spiritual understanding, anyone of which alone is mere mental rationalization until it is combined and integrated.

I learned to grow, that is the most important thing I learned from psychodrama. I learned to communicate. I can communicate with people now about deeper things than I ever used to be able to, because I feel I can truly be understanding without falling hopelessly into their world view. Sometimes people have a very negative world view and it can be unhealthy. I can recognize that too, and stay away if I feel it is impeding on my view in a negative way. In other words, I can protect myself now and know when I need to do that.

Psychodrama has allowed me to consider becoming a therapist myself. Until now, I considered myself far too neurotic to consider getting involved in other peoples problems. I'm still neurotic! But I can deal with it much better now, and I feel like "Hey, welcome to the human race, aren't we all neurotic?" I can recognize that we all have some neurosis, and that is ok, it makes us human, it is part of our growth path. Being neurotic is not the end of the world, it is the beginning of another lesson in life. We pass through these lessons, some last longer than others.

I have discovered a way to speed my movement through these lessons, it is psychodrama. Can something else do it? I imagine many things can. Being someone who was in some form of therapy most of my life, this was the single most profound form of therapy I ever experienced, which actually worked for me, and that is why I praise it so highly.

Continued in "part two", I will try to answer these questions more directly, so far i know it is only indirect.

Jon

healthwiz
08-27-04, 01:28 AM
PART TWO

Well, psychodrama is a form of theatre. It is also a form of psychological therapy.

The methods history is rich with a brilliant character who had his MD. Psychiatry degree, and had training in theatre as well, and learned under Frued, as well. That would be JL Moreno, a turkish Jewish MD from Vienna, who came to the US to run a insane asylum in upper state NY. He developed the technique of combining theatre techniques with psychological techniques as a treatment for highly ill patients with hallucinations, psychotics, Schizophrenics, etc. And it worked, their dillusions started to become reduced, and the anxiety levels reduced, and growth was occuring in highly ill population.

By accident they discovered that the healthy participants, the nurses who were helping in the original psychodramas, were experiencing relief from their own phobias, anxieties, neurosis, depressions. They self reported relief. Thus the modern version of psychodrama was born for healthy populations. You didnt have to be psychotic to get this treatment.

It was spread throughout the world as a successful treatment, but the hours of training necessary to become a psychodramatist is immense, so there are still only a few hundred practitioners in the US. In Brazil (or it may be Chile) on the other hand, there are over 6000 practitioners there and it is the main treatment for most mental illness complaints there.

The protagonist is the person who has an emotional, spiritual, psychological, familial complaint. He/she is chosen by the group which meets regularly, and on each night, one protagonist is chosen. When the protagonist volunteers himself, and others also volunteer themselves to be protagonist, the group does a certain kind of voting mechanism, which measure sociometrics, meaning it measures which issue is of most recognition to the group as a whole. Thus the issue of most importance to the group as a whole, at that moment determines the protagonist chosen that night.

The protagonist is assisted by the director, who helps the protagonist choose a plot out of his/her life, to be enacted. The director helps the protagnist set a stage, and choose appropriate volunteers from the group to play the characters needed to play the scenes.

Then the protaganist's life is opened up for all to see, with vivid characters, emotions represented by colors and scarves and any othe props available, which are minimalistic. The scene is guided together by the protagonist and the director, as partners, co-directors, so the protagonist can truly experience the moment. As his/her life opens up, so do memories that were until then supressed. Typically, a healing catharsis takes place, where the protagonist may have an emotional collapse right on stage, as a result of the impact and the pain of the suffering which may emerge. The director is ever present and assisting the protagonist though these difficult passages. These are true passages, as the protagonist passes through the experience, and has an opportunity in many ways to gain new understandings, that were not possible the first time he/she experienced it in their real life. In this setting, the experience can be understood at a deeper level, the feelings that were surpressed, can safely emerge in a non-toxic and safe environment, where healing and growth dominate. There is no abuse in this envivonment. It is a person's chance to pass through a previous hell and come out with a shield that protects them, rather than go through that hell in an unconscious surpressed emotional state for the rest of their lives.

People in the groups which I have been in for 3 years now, have experienced growth beyond their wildest dreams. They have overcome neurotic behavior, feelings of low self esteem, fears, phobias, relationship problems, work problems, success problems, money problems, all because the roots of these problems were in the hells they passed through at one time in their lives when there was no one to help. With psychodrama, they relive that experience in it's important aspects only, in a safe environment, and make a passage to the next stage of their lives. They get "unstuck".

I hope that makes sense. I hope my psychodrama teachers would be proud of my description! lol

I am beginning my 4th year of psychodrama in Sept and I will soon begin some kind of graduate program to become a therapist. My psychodrama teacher has urged me to become a therapist, something i have been very afraid of doing. But it may be time. I'm 2/3 though the course work for psychodrama. Now I need to start the course work for either a masters in mental health counseling or a doctorate in clinical psych. The latter takes a long time (5 years), so i might go for the masters (2 years) even though i really want the prestige and authority and expertise of a doctorate. It's an overcoming ADD dream to finish graduate school, which I have not started yet.

Take care

Jonathan

healthwiz
08-27-04, 01:57 AM
Jon,

Would that also help with ppl who have repressed memories of abuse and can not remember details of what happened but still have flashbacks?


Yes, I believe psychodrama is an excellent and wonderful way to bring repressed memories into a situation where it is safe for them to come forward at a more conscious level. These memories will not come forward, in my opinion, until they are in a safe and effective and loving environment. Until they come forward, I believe they continue to knock on our unconscious doors, making things happen that maybe we would prefer did not happen.

hope that helps

Jonathan

healthwiz
08-27-04, 02:02 AM
I dread the thought of performing. I refused to even beat a pillow in the shrink's office. Maybe it'd be good but I can't do it. Very uncomfortable.

I think most people entering psychodrama would cringe and die on the spot if they had to "perform" immediately. It takes time, weeks or months, of settling in, first being the audience, learning in that capacity, slowly contributing in discussions and feedback, just sharing your own feelings about a drama, then taking very small roles in other peoples dramas, and eventually taking larger roles in other peoples dramas, and then finally taking the main role in your own drama. It takes time. The groups supports you. You not only become the actor in our own drama (and we all really are that already!) you eventually do things you perviously never thought possible. Its growth!

Jon

paulbf
08-27-04, 02:13 AM
Jonathan,
Would this be possible as an on-line written group blog/forum kind of thing. I know that's not as present & immediate as what you describe but it could work as a slower paced more gradual verison of the same concept. Hmm, just rambling...

healthwiz
08-27-04, 03:12 AM
Jonathan,
Would this be possible as an on-line written group blog/forum kind of thing. I know that's not as present & immediate as what you describe but it could work as a slower paced more gradual verison of the same concept. Hmm, just rambling...

I'm honestly not sure. It would be a first I think. Much of psychodrama is highly dependent on an aspect called "spontaneity" which develops as one continues in psychodrama. My immediate reaction is that the spontanaeity and the value of spontaneity might vanish, which would signicantly change the intended cathartic outcomes and the level of self revelations that were unexpected. Mysecond issue is with the 3 dimensional aspects of a stage and all the characters working together at once. I'm not sure how all that would change in the 2-D world online.

I guess, you have a great question; I don't have an answer. I think what would come out would be something, and it might be helfpul. However i dont think it would be psychodrama anymore. It might be onlinedrama, lol. The next important thing is that its important to not do harm. I'm not sure how the benevolent factors could be harnessed online as they are in person. There is a certain trust barrier that is acheived in person. Just rambling.

Thanks for the thoguht!

Jon

paulbf
08-27-04, 08:37 AM
Yeah, I think it would be something else. What I'm thinking is more like working through those issues by writing a book or poetry or art than performing live. May or may not be possible to get meaningful group participation to work.

healthwiz
08-28-04, 02:02 AM
Yeah, I think it would be something else. What I'm thinking is more like working through those issues by writing a book or poetry or art than performing live. May or may not be possible to get meaningful group participation to work.

You never know. After all the power of the group is demonstrated here at this forum. Groups can be powerful. The question would be how to develop a group that would write something meaningful, that would be cathartic. Its all therapeutic. Life is therapeutic.

Don't give up on your ideas too easily.

:)
Jon

healthwiz
10-20-04, 01:01 AM
It seems i am going back over these posts, and it seems i did not answer your question. I'm sorry if i didnt manage to get back to you.

The answer is that in psychodrama, there is a tendency for more information which is repressed to begin floating above the unconscious level and enter into a middle consciousness, the role playing consciousness, and thus enter into the conscious level of thinking and feeling, via the aquaduct of role playing. The role playing becomes a catalyst allowing formerly unpermitted information and feelings to cross the barrier, that barrier being the unconscious barrier barring access to information. Role playing is like having a temporary permission slip to subvert the usual security measures. However, once the information crosses that barrier, it is pretty much there in the conscious realm to stay, no matter how it got permission to be there.

Some very dramatic things can come to consciousness in psychodrama. It is very important that psychodrama be with a licensed psychodramatist, because of the level of unconscious information which can become part of a psychodramatic experience. It all needs to be processed in the moment, as it arises, in a way that leaves the protagonist (the person having a psychodrama) in a healthy state improved over the state they began with. It is very effective.

I hope this is a good answer. Sorry for the time it took to realize i had not answered your questions.

Sincerely,

Jonathan



Jon,

Would that also help with ppl who have repressed memories of abuse and can not remember details of what happened but still have flashbacks?

vinceptor
10-20-04, 07:57 PM
Jonathan --

Your post highlights something that I've had a sneaking suspicion about for some time, surfacing from my unconscious experiences (as it were) of my own group psychodrama exercises.

Given the difficulties many ADDs have with recognizing social cues, haven't you ever wondered about how effective roleplaying would be to someone with impairments in that department? I could see roleplaying as a remedial education technique, but not as a technique for exposing toxic memories and beliefs that a participant might not have been able to bury in the first place.

I think it is also related to the variable sensitivity inattentives have to their environment -- one moment hyperfocused, another off in a waking dream. I also think it is based in a general inability to form defenses in the normal way. What is they say about hyperactives -- we have a "thin skin" and "speak before thinking?" Doesn't sound like someone who's been able to build up a veneer of acceptable behavior, and thus develop their social identities.

Both of these considerations make me a believer in the "autistic spectrum" hypothesis, as these observations are the foundation of my belief that "higher-functioning autistics" and "lower-functioning AD/HDs" are separated only by degree and that the DSM exclusionary diagnosis is misguided in that respect.

I recall reading Oliver Sacks's "An Anthropologist On Mars," where he interviews Temple Grandin. She makes a remark that shakes him to core of his neurologist's soul -- that autistics cannot form psychological defenses. His first comment was that ALL humans form defenses, then he backs away one step from this kneejerk assertion to remark how strange such an existence would be.

I love to read him but to this particular case of clinical cluelessness, my only possible comment is "duh!"

Ken

healthwiz
10-20-04, 11:08 PM
Interesting remarks. I have had an opposite impression based on my experiences, and I think everyone's experiences are going to be different based on their own personality and based upon the director. I am blessed to have a director considered by her peers to be a master, and so this does afford me a higher level of confidence in her and in psychodrama.

I especially think that psychodrama is very suitable for the role playing aspect that it offers. It can be used to train and model defenses, to model appropriate creation of personal, psychological, emotional, spiritual and physical boundaries. I have seen psychodrama as one of my main teachers in areas of defense that I had hitherto not learned. I learned what is an inappropriate attack on my boundaries, and how to defend myself from such attacks. I was so accustomed to dealing with impedences on my boundaries that I didn't even know I had a right to those boundaries. It was quite a relief to find out how much C.R.A.P. I don't have to allow or accept. This was how psychodrama has helped me in one area. It allowed me to stand up to my parents in an appropriate way, without being overwhelmed by reservations over whether doing so was right or wrong, and without years and years of anger and resentment showing in my actions. It solidified my emotional and psychological rights to defend myself, and made me confident I CAN take care of myself, even in a dysfunctional environment.

Your other remarks about autism and ADD are a bit out of my areas of feeling knowledgeable. I would not be surprised if there is some connection though, since I believe the gene for ADD and for Autism is found on the same gene marker? However, the real issue I felt come up was whether an ADDer could form healthy psychological defenses? I am an ADDer and I believe psychodrama helped me form healthy psychological defenses. I also believe I did not have those defenses well developed before psychodrama, and that is despite years of other therapy.

I believe you are right about emotions being unprocessed in the ADDer, if that is what you meant. I have experienced having a backlog of unprocessed emotional experiences, and then being diluged with the processing whenever a particular treatment allowed them to start passing whatever barrier was keeping them out of the processing room, so to speak. These unprocessed feelings would make it more difficult to cataogize, store, and protect such experiences, not to mention being unable to do so would effect the ability to gain knowledge from those experiences. I do not believe the insufficiency of one system of the neurology, ie poor processing of emotional experiences, would eliminate the potential to benefit from the psychodrama experience. In fact, psychodrama would in my opinion assist in opening up new processing pathways, or resurrecting existing but rusty unused pathways, to cause more processing to take place. Unfortunately, when we have a backlog of processing to do, whatever key opens the damn also opens us up to a large amount of unprecedented emotional processing. On the other hand, if it doesn't get done, it just gets backed up and clogs the system. Sooner or later, if it gets ignored, the plunger has to come in and clean out the system. I believe one cannot have adinfinitum unprocessed emotions on hold out there and still be able to function at a high level of accuracy. It's really just a matter of choosing which plunger one prefers... and whether the plunger is a bandaid or a serious re-plumbing job. Psychodrama is a serious replumbing job. Unfortunately, replumbing can be painful.

And thats the real poop! :)

Sincerely,

Jonathan

vinceptor
10-21-04, 03:30 PM
Thanks for the feedback....interesting exchange.


...I especially think that psychodrama is very suitable for the role playing aspect that it offers. It can be used to train and model defenses, to model appropriate creation of personal, psychological, emotional, spiritual and physical boundaries.


Agreed. I see that as the main benefit for AD/HDs, who fall behind the power curve trying to learn defenses the natural way. Like I said, it's basically "remedial education."


... I learned what is an inappropriate attack on my boundaries, and how to defend myself from such attacks.


A most important benefit. I note here that most people in therapy have boundary maintenance issues, it's just so much worse for ADDers with "thin skins" and "their hearts upon their sleeves."


... the real issue I felt come up was whether an ADDer could form healthy psychological defenses? I am an ADDer and I believe psychodrama helped me form healthy psychological defenses. I also believe I did not have those defenses well developed before psychodrama, and that is despite years of other therapy.


I think you hit the nail on the head (but then you are a "healthwiz", after all). The advantage of a "spectrum" model is that you see qualitative results coming out of an issue of degree. Forming defenses is natural, but do you have enough gas in the tank to get where you need to go (so to speak)? Therapy then becomes the Auto Club of life...(not sure about this metaphor).


......I have experienced having a backlog of unprocessed emotional experiences, and then being diluged with the processing whenever a particular treatment allowed them to start passing whatever barrier was keeping them out of the processing room...

... On the other hand, if it doesn't get done, it just gets backed up and clogs the system. Sooner or later, if it gets ignored, the plunger has to come in and clean out the system.... It's really just a matter of choosing which plunger one prefers...


I've noticed this in myself, but have come to characterize it as thinking that doesn't surface right away, a kind of delayed reaction. Too many times I decipher a social situation or figure out a problem much later, and without actively thinking about it. This leads to eruptive thoughts that seem to come from nowhere but which I've learned to recognize as cognition that goes on its own merry way without my help (BTW, I have found visualization the most effective therapeutic trick for me in surfacing stuff deliberately.)


...Psychodrama is a serious replumbing job. Unfortunately, replumbing can be painful.


Amen to that... I would usually be worthless the next day after a good session. But the insights were worth it, even though I discontinued for other reasons.

Ken

healthwiz
10-21-04, 11:47 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and personal sharing Ken. Good points! All good points.

Jonathan

speedo
09-02-05, 10:16 PM
I resemble this...

Me :D

Jonathan --

Your post highlights something that I've had a sneaking suspicion about for some time, surfacing from my unconscious experiences (as it were) of my own group psychodrama exercises.

Given the difficulties many ADDs have with recognizing social cues, haven't you ever wondered about how effective roleplaying would be to someone with impairments in that department? I could see roleplaying as a remedial education technique, but not as a technique for exposing toxic memories and beliefs that a participant might not have been able to bury in the first place.

I think it is also related to the variable sensitivity inattentives have to their environment -- one moment hyperfocused, another off in a waking dream. I also think it is based in a general inability to form defenses in the normal way. What is they say about hyperactives -- we have a "thin skin" and "speak before thinking?" Doesn't sound like someone who's been able to build up a veneer of acceptable behavior, and thus develop their social identities.

Both of these considerations make me a believer in the "autistic spectrum" hypothesis, as these observations are the foundation of my belief that "higher-functioning autistics" and "lower-functioning AD/HDs" are separated only by degree and that the DSM exclusionary diagnosis is misguided in that respect.

I recall reading Oliver Sacks's "An Anthropologist On Mars," where he interviews Temple Grandin. She makes a remark that shakes him to core of his neurologist's soul -- that autistics cannot form psychological defenses. His first comment was that ALL humans form defenses, then he backs away one step from this kneejerk assertion to remark how strange such an existence would be.

I love to read him but to this particular case of clinical cluelessness, my only possible comment is "duh!"

Ken

vinceptor
09-03-05, 12:56 PM
Speedo. :) you :D

Ken

healthwiz
09-03-05, 06:18 PM
Just a follow up, after many months. Psychodrama, which i have participated in for 4 solid 10 month seasons a year, has definetley improved my life and my outlook. Ofcourse there are still stubborn problems, but my view on solving them has changed. I've recently come to the conclusion that i can do anything i want with my life, and there is no reason not to. this is quite unusual for me, as i typically sit around nervously avoiding doing what i want in the world. I recently entered grad school, just a week ago, because i felt the confidence to simply do what my feeling was telling me to do. Normally, that is a lot of risk for me, and infinite avoidance of risk...this time i jumped in with no solid answers about where it was taking me..oh well, faith.

I don't think it is entirely psychodrama that made the difference. However, i do think psychodrama helped a lot. I'm debating whether to start my 5th season of psychodrama soon. If i don't do it, it will be a big life change for me. I think i may do it another half year. Grad school schedule is going to interrupt psychodrama nights next semester...so i may not have much of a choice in the matter.

By the way, grad school is fun. I like the classes, i like the challenge, and i am not bored anymore. I encourage everyone who is sitting there, thinking should i or shouldn't i, to just do it. Don;t worry so much about where the degree is going to lead, because it is certainly going to lead more places that no degree is going to lead. Where is the current situation leading? Waiting to see some infomercial on late night tv that will make all your wealthy dreams come true? How often does that happen? Getting a degree, any degree is farther down the road of life changing experiences that any infomercial can offer. Doing nothing, may produce life changing experiences, but normally those are not the ones we are hoping for, like, negative experiences.

In my opinion, its easier to bear a little failure in school, perhaps a bad grade, or the need to drop a class and still pay the tuition, or the need to go to the department on campus that helps students with disabilities...that is not nearly as painful as a lot of nothing in life.... just some thoughts to think about.

Anyhow, i'm prosteletising, don't let the ADD, the mood disorders, the learning disabilities, or low self esteem issues or Depression or money fears, or just fear itself, or panic disorders, stand in the way of your education...just do it! Everyone, even people with these problems we all face, deserves to be able to make some dreams happen, even if they are harder in some ways for us...we still deserve to be able to do it! So do it!

:)

Jonathan

hstarr
11-19-05, 04:09 PM
Hi Jonathan-
It's been fun to read your and other people's comments and stories about psychodrama. I was a theater geek for years and learned about psychodrama about 10 years ago from an acting teacher, which prompted me to take a few classes and eventually decide to study psychology in order to become a therapist.

Fast forward to now - I am writing my dissertation and getting ready to start a residency as a clinical psychologist. Psychodrama was the bridge that allowed me to transition from theater to psychology, and my psychodrama teacher was a real inspiration to me - one of the most talented, effective therapists I know, and definitely a mentor to me.

It's funny that I stumbled across this thread now. Since I am about to graduate and actually begin developing my career as a therapist, I have thought about looking into psychodrama trainings, because I really want to develop a specialty in group therapy.

I agree that it's a very potent and effective way to learn about oneself and grow. The training I did early in my grad education taught me a lot about myself in a short period of time. I think any therapeutic modality that encorporates the body is going to be more effective than sitting in a chair, because we are asked to be more engaged in the process.

I could go on about that for a looong time. Anyway, thanks for this thread, and I hope grad school continues to be rewarding for you. I'm sure you'll be a great contributor to the field. :)

healthwiz
11-20-05, 12:34 AM
Hi Jonathan-
It's been fun to read your and other people's comments and stories about psychodrama. I was a theater geek for years and learned about psychodrama about 10 years ago from an acting teacher, which prompted me to take a few classes and eventually decide to study psychology in order to become a therapist.

Fast forward to now - I am writing my dissertation and getting ready to start a residency as a clinical psychologist. Psychodrama was the bridge that allowed me to transition from theater to psychology, and my psychodrama teacher was a real inspiration to me - one of the most talented, effective therapists I know, and definitely a mentor to me.

It's funny that I stumbled across this thread now. Since I am about to graduate and actually begin developing my career as a therapist, I have thought about looking into psychodrama trainings, because I really want to develop a specialty in group therapy.

I agree that it's a very potent and effective way to learn about oneself and grow. The training I did early in my grad education taught me a lot about myself in a short period of time. I think any therapeutic modality that encorporates the body is going to be more effective than sitting in a chair, because we are asked to be more engaged in the process.

I could go on about that for a looong time. Anyway, thanks for this thread, and I hope grad school continues to be rewarding for you. I'm sure you'll be a great contributor to the field. :)

Well, it is great to hear about someone who is doing it - living life! I wish you luck in your new career. It would be great if you would add anything you can to this thread. Look around the site, there is plenty here about opinions on therapy, and your perspective sounds like one that others would like to hear about.

:)

Jon