View Full Version : Positive and Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia


saturday
12-27-12, 11:41 AM
I was searching for information related to Seroquel and its long term effects and I found this page:

http://www.toddlertime.com/med/seroquel.htm

Findings from extensive clinical trials have shown Seroquel to be effective in the treatment of both positive (e.g., delusions, thought disorder, and hallucinations) and negative (e.g., social withdrawal, lack of energy, apathy, and reduced ability to express emotion) symptoms of schizophrenia.

I am confused by the term "positive symptoms". What does this mean? Arent all symptoms of Schizophrenia negative?

namazu
12-27-12, 01:12 PM
In this context, "positive" doesn't mean "good".

It means "something a person is experiencing that isn't usually present" -- like seeing things or hearing voices or smelling smells that aren't really there, or having "strange" or paranoid thoughts. These hallucinations and delusions are considered "positive" symptoms.

"Negative" symptoms reflect a reduction in "normal" behavior -- for example, "flat affect" (not really feeling/responding to emotions), social withdrawal, and lack of motivation.

"Positive" symptoms have fewer likely causes -- they can be seen in other psychotic disorders (for example, some cases of bipolar disorder or major depression) or sometimes as a result of drug use, medication side effects, or dementia. But they tend to be more obvious and less subtle than "negative" symptoms can often be, and they also may appear more abruptly.

A lot of disorders or problems can cause "negative" symptoms, so they can be harder to pin on schizophrenia without clear evidence of hallucinations or delusions. These symptoms also tend to be more difficult to treat than psychotic symptoms.

saturday
12-27-12, 01:22 PM
Ok, I guess positive and negative give more meaning than subnormal or abnormal or some other adjective. Thanks for clearing that up.

sarek
12-27-12, 07:02 PM
I wish I could remember where I found this, but its defo instructive:
http://www.chovil.ca/images/graph3.jpg

saturday
12-27-12, 07:27 PM
Wow, thanks! I will have to google the meaning of Alogia, Avolition, and Anhodenia and Catatonia. Do these symptoms cross over into mood disorders like schizoaffective and bipolar spectrum?

Also what does Affective mean in terms of affective flattening or schizoaffective?

I wonder what the arrows mean? Like why does the negative symptoms have three arrows and the cognative and mood symptoms only have two. (probably means nothing, Im just curious)

sarek
12-28-12, 05:45 AM
Alogia is the inability to have a normal structured conversation.

Avolition is the inability to pursue goals

Anhedonia is the inability to derive pleasure from activities other people generally derive pleasure from

Shizoaffective disorder is a bit of a middle ground between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and is characterised by symptoms of each. The lines are often very difficult to draw.

The reason positive symptoms are called positive, like Namazu already mentioned, is because positive symptoms are a much stronger giveaway of psychosis than the negative symptoms are.

Those negative symptoms can after all be cause by a wide variety of disorders and its therefore more difficult to distinguish based on them.

Sapphire11
12-28-12, 06:55 AM
Alogia is the inability to have a normal structured conversation.

Avolition is the inability to pursue goals

Anhedonia is the inability to derive pleasure from activities other people generally derive pleasure from

Shizoaffective disorder is a bit of a middle ground between bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and is characterised by symptoms of each. The lines are often very difficult to draw.

The reason positive symptoms are called positive, like Namazu already mentioned, is because positive symptoms are a much stronger giveaway of psychosis than the negative symptoms are.

Those negative symptoms can after all be cause by a wide variety of disorders and its therefore more difficult to distinguish based on them.

Thank you, You little genius SAREK !!!!!!!!!!:thankyou:

peripatetic
12-28-12, 06:54 PM
the arrows are almost certainly reflective of level of damage done. sure, perceptual distortions make things tough, but substitute "basic hygiene" for self care and you'll notice avolition flies in the face of practicing, say, routine dental care, failure to basically keep oneself "public ready" is a big problem with negative symptoms in a way that doesn't respond as well to psycho-social/medical/pharmaceutical "interventions", if that makes sense.

the symptoms as indicators of "outcome" are those arrows. approximately one third of people will not get any symptom relief from medications or other treatment options, and a lot of that third is those with mostly "privation" symptoms, and not "extra" ones. positive symptoms generally respond pretty quickly to anti psychotics, provided you don't fucj it up and go off/on and so forth. negative symptoms often don't as, I believe n mentioned. also as n mentioned positive just means additional/extra and not better/worse/desirable, so that's why I say privation (negative) vs extra (positive) as I think perhaps that clarifies. the cognitive/affective ones are in the middle on both diffuculty of impact and outcome and responsiveness.

mildadhd
12-29-12, 07:49 PM
Interesting discussion.

I am not familiar with the information.

one positive is equal to about 3 negative.

In regards to some types of homeostasis.

Generally negative promotes equilibrium.

While to much positive is destructive.

I find the 1 : 3

and 2:2 ratios,

generally consistently,

in types of information about different regulations/functions.



Took me a couple of reads to get a slight understanding.

Thanks

mildadhd
12-30-12, 12:37 AM
In this context, "positive" doesn't mean "good".

It means "something a person is experiencing that isn't usually present" -- like seeing things or hearing voices or smelling smells that aren't really there, or having "strange" or paranoid thoughts. These hallucinations and delusions are considered "positive" symptoms.

"Negative" symptoms reflect a reduction in "normal" behavior -- for example, "flat affect" (not really feeling/responding to emotions), social withdrawal, and lack of motivation.

"Positive" symptoms have fewer likely causes -- they can be seen in other psychotic disorders (for example, some cases of bipolar disorder or major depression) or sometimes as a result of drug use, medication side effects, or dementia. But they tend to be more obvious and less subtle than "negative" symptoms can often be, and they also may appear more abruptly.

A lot of disorders or problems can cause "negative" symptoms, so they can be harder to pin on schizophrenia without clear evidence of hallucinations or delusions. These symptoms also tend to be more difficult to treat than psychotic symptoms.


Is there any relationship between some negative and positive symptoms?

Example
If blood sugar is negative,(low blood sugar)
If blood sugar is positive, (high blood sugar)

or DA + NE + ST is negative,

or DA + NE + ST is positive,

(or/and, combination of other multiple factors....etc?)

namazu
12-30-12, 09:53 PM
Is there any relationship between some negative and positive symptoms?

Example
If blood sugar is negative,(low blood sugar)
If blood sugar is positive, (high blood sugar)

or DA + NE + ST is negative,
or DA + NE + ST is positive,

(or/and, combination of other multiple factors....etc?)
There is some relationship, but unlike the "positive" and "negative" (+/-) labels might seem to suggest, "positive" and "negative" symptoms are not truly opposites of each other. They can coexist.

For example, a person who has paranoid delusions may also withdraw from other people (maybe due to a combination of the paranoid fears as well as a lack of interest or tolerance or energy for dealing with other people, and even other people's response to their expressed ideas or behavior).

So, it's different from something like blood sugar, where it can be high or low, or even fluctuate, but it can't be both high and low at the same time. Think of it more like inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive symptoms of ADHD, which a person can have simultaneously. Some symptoms are just more prominent at different times, and some may be easier or harder to manage or treat or live with.

mildadhd
01-01-13, 10:37 PM
I was searching for information related to Seroquel and its long term effects and I found this page:

http://www.toddlertime.com/med/seroquel.htm



I am confused by the term "positive symptoms". What does this mean? Arent all symptoms of Schizophrenia negative?



I'm really glad you investigated these questions.

Please consider I have not researched Schizophrenia before,

observing the physiology etc...a little for the first time.



Because positive can be really "bad",

as well as "good",

depending on the individual subject circumstances.


In some circumstances to much positive feedback can be really bad.


I've been curious about internal and external climates.

Its kind of like,

the human internal human body (including the brain) is the half-body,

and the external environment the human exists is the half-body.


External -----middle neutral balanced point-----Internal





When a person has positive schizophrenia symptoms,

Does that mean positive symptoms are external emotionally,

and negative symptoms are internal emotionally?


I could be way off track,

but it would be neutral to find away to avoid the vocabulary confusion,

to easier understand the different systems relationships.

In regards to the words positive and negative,

in how the external-internal world works together as a whole-body.


There are some funny combinations,

like the position of the body ,

effects which parts of the Nervous Systems (NS) are in use.


Example;

The Nervous Systems work differently laying down (sleeping),

than standing and walking.

Also light, temperature affects on the NS .

Then add other Systems functioning as well.

Its very complex.

But one step at a time it becomes understandable.

Like troubleshooting a car.

saturday
01-02-13, 11:33 AM
When a person has positive schizophrenia symptoms,

Does that mean positive symptoms are external emotionally,

and negative symptoms are internal emotionally?



Very interesting to think about. It sounds like close, but delusions would be internal and anhedonia seems like it could be external.