View Full Version : ADHD and Asperger's


Kairi96
12-30-12, 08:08 AM
I see that the mojority of people thinks that a person with both ADHD and Asperger's will show more ADHD traits. Is this always true? Or do people with both conditions that show more AS traits exist?
About me, mother and psychiatrist say I show more ADHD. It's mostly like this:
ADHD:
- I talk a lot, even too much;
- I have a very short attention span if I'm not interested in something (I have to take meds to be able to focus);
- I am an hyperactive person;
- I am impulsive, also very impatient;
- I have a very good long-term memory, but my working memory kinda sucks;
- I play with everything that is around me;
- I do careless mistakes;
- I tend to pass from an activity to another very quickly.
Asperger's syndrome:
- I have a very strong attention for details (unusual for a person with only ADHD), so much that I don't notice things in general;
- If I am interested in something, I can concentrate on it for a long period of time;
- People say I look emotion-less (even if I look hyperactive in the same time);
- I have sensority issues;
- Too formal speech;
- I have troubles with non-verbal communication;
- I lack motor coordination.

What about you? If you have both AS and ADHD, do you show more AS traits or more ADHD traits?

Shaneybo
12-30-12, 09:40 AM
About me, mother and psychiatrist say I show more ADHD. It's mostly like this

I used to live with a guy with Asperger's. As a child, they said that he has ADHD so they put him on Ritalin which kinda ruined everything for him. I think parents are more willing to accept that their kids have ADHD...rather than the fact that they have an autistic child so it gets messy. Of course, Daniel is in denial about this as it would sound bad because of ADHD = creativity!

That's why a lot of Aspergers specialists can do a ADHD diagnosis as ASD & ADHD are similar in some ways even thought ASD is at the other end of the spectrum from ADHD but one thing we have in common is that our minds are wired differently from neurotypical people. :yes:

You been on any ADHD meds? Do they work effectively for you?

Kairi96
12-30-12, 09:42 AM
You been on any ADHD meds? Do they work effectively for you?
Not "normal" meds because I'm allergic to them. I use homeopatic meds, and yes, they work very well and help me a lot.

Lunacie
12-30-12, 11:45 AM
I see that the mojority of people thinks that a person with both ADHD and Asperger's will show more ADHD traits. Is this always true? Or do people with both conditions that show more AS traits exist?
About me, mother and psychiatrist say I show more ADHD. It's mostly like this:
ADHD:
- I talk a lot, even too much;
- I have a very short attention span if I'm not interested in something (I have to take meds to be able to focus);
- I am an hyperactive person;
- I am impulsive, also very impatient;
- I have a very good long-term memory, but my working memory kinda sucks;
- I play with everything that is around me;
- I do careless mistakes;
- I tend to pass from an activity to another very quickly.
Asperger's syndrome:
- I have a very strong attention for details (unusual for a person with only ADHD), so much that I don't notice things in general;

- If I am interested in something, I can concentrate on it for a long period of time;
- People say I look emotion-less (even if I look hyperactive in the same time);
- I have sensority issues;
- Too formal speech;
- I have troubles with non-verbal communication;
- I lack motor coordination.

What about you? If you have both AS and ADHD, do you show more AS traits or more ADHD traits?

The Connor's report for me came back with a strong possibility of ASD -
but didn't specify Asperger's. Hope it's okay for me to post on this thread?

I just wanted to point out that people with ADHD can also concentrate on
things they find interesting or enjoyable. It's a problem with attention
regulation, not a deficit of attention. The name should be changed.

And some people with ADHD also have sensory issues and problems with
both fine and gross motor skills.

And of course, some people have been diagnosed with both disorders.

Kairi96
12-30-12, 01:49 PM
And of course, some people have been diagnosed with both disorders.
That's sure. I'm one of those people. ADHD is often comorbid with AS.

Shaneybo
12-31-12, 11:17 AM
Not "normal" meds because I'm allergic to them. I use homeopatic meds, and yes, they work very well and help me a lot.

My psychiatrist said that if the ADHD meds works well for you, then it confirms that you do have ADHD in the first place. However, ADHD meds only work for 80% of Adders (people with ADHD) so you might be in the missing 20% :-(

Lunacie
12-31-12, 11:38 AM
My psychiatrist said that if the ADHD meds works well for you, then it confirms that you do have ADHD in the first place. However, ADHD meds only work for 80% of Adders (people with ADHD) so you might be in the missing 20% :-(

That's been debunked around here before. Stimulant meds help pretty
much everyone, just like coffee and other stimulants do. There are some
exceptions of course.

Kairi96
12-31-12, 02:05 PM
My psychiatrist said that if the ADHD meds works well for you, then it confirms that you do have ADHD in the first place. However, ADHD meds only work for 80% of Adders (people with ADHD) so you might be in the missing 20% :-(
I see. Psychiatrist said that the "normal" meds don't work well for me because I'm pharmachoresistant, probably due to my AS, since my brother who has LFA has the same problem and we both must take homeopatic meds, which, however, help us very much.

Shaneybo
01-18-13, 07:01 PM
and if you go gluten-free i.e. avoiding wheat. Avoid processed food etc. That way your liver will function better - that way your ADHD meds may be more effective.

Sugar8
01-18-13, 08:59 PM
ADHD:
- I talk a lot, even too much;
- I have a very short attention span if I'm not interested in something (I have to take meds to be able to focus);
- I am an hyperactive person;
- I am impulsive, also very impatient;
- I have a very good long-term memory, but my working memory kinda sucks;
- I play with everything that is around me;
- I do careless mistakes;
- I tend to pass from an activity to another very quickly.
Asperger's syndrome:
- I have a very strong attention for details (unusual for a person with only ADHD), so much that I don't notice things in general;
- If I am interested in something, I can concentrate on it for a long period of time;
- People say I look emotion-less (even if I look hyperactive in the same time);
- I have sensority issues;
- Too formal speech;
- I have troubles with non-verbal communication;
- I lack motor coordination.

What about you? If you have both AS and ADHD, do you show more AS traits or more ADHD traits?

I was diagnosed with ADHD in my early 30's.

I found this thread interesting, because at least 3 people, one a close friend has said on 2 occasions that they think maybe I might also have Asperger's. Which is hard for me to really diagnose, being that people find me to be socially adjusted, have friends, interact well with others.. lol... on the surface... part of that I believe is training on my mom's part-- "be nice to people" and that she would always talk to strangers and people and people would comment on my appearance. I look a certain way-- normal to sometimes people say exotic or above average. I can be girly and look girly, but it feels a little forced sometimes. I was forced to be social and trained in a way I guess... but that does not mean it has always been comfortable for me... and that being me and trying to appear "normal" hasn't come with comments:

Why do you sound like a robot? - too fromal speech
Can you talk about something else? -interest in unusual topics not peer normed
You're obsessed with...... -interest in things others are not, they find it weird

I used to have tactile sensory issues, but auditory issues are still there, I can not sit in the back seat of someone's car with the radio on, I often think it is too loud and it upsets me... argh. Sometimes too much noise bothers me or certain noises.

Visually-- I can become obsessed when something minor is out of place or if their are too many words written everywhere. Anything in my home that is on a counter- often I become concerned about removing the label.

Sometimes when I read something I can remember it long term and engage in conversation with someone in that field of topic, once a Chem engineer thought I studied the same when I explained the properties of vaseline -- uh.. i read the ingredients on everything on buy-- but having the conversation with friends they think I'm weird to think of things no one else really thinks about.

So Asperger's, OCD traits, ADHD...

Often because of my manner of speech other people with ADHD think I'm more Aspie, not like them as much because I've excelled in academic settings- learning, and speak like I have. My family accuses me, all my life, of talking down to them, using big words.

My mom would always have strange vacant stares or odd facial expressions people commented on. She had facial scars and was blind in one eye but looking back on it, knowing her.... she really did seem to have some different vacant stares or lack of eye contact even when she would talk to me.

I notice people have said the same about me sometimes, my lack of eye contact or absent stare-- sometimes my odd facial expressions, or seeming not to care.. it's made me think about my eye-contact, then I began realizing when I tried to maintain eye-contact with people it became uncomfortable.

I don't know what's going on with me really... I'm a mess now I say.

Is there a cure for being a mess?

fracturedstory
01-18-13, 11:17 PM
Eh. No f**king idea.

Here, I shall brainstorm.

Autism:

No desire in people.
Intense interests and encyclopaedic memory for them.
Strong attention to details.
Stimming.
Severe sensory processing issues.
Objects>people
Animals>people
Repetitive movements
MUST HAVE ROUTINE!
I hate change to the point of anxiety and meltdowns.
Good organisational skills.
No f**king clue about what to say to people unless I talk about my interests.
Still discovering basic social skills.
Had very little friends in school
Didn't talk to people until I was 14.
Took many years to develop a theory of mind and empathy for others.
A severe introvert and systemiser.
Echolalia and echopraxia
Disconnection from others, actually feel disconnected.
In school only wanted to learn about what I was interested in.

ADHD:

Hard time focusing or pulling away something I'm interested in.
Difficultly motivating myself to do long or tiresome tasks.
Hyperactive/impulsive, usually in speech, actions and with money.
Brain fog.
Thinks a lot, comes up with crazy ideas that I want to try out but then never seem to start or stick with.
Forgets things all the time.
Argues all the time. Doesn't notice when I offend someone. Or when I'm arguing.
Uses up energy too quickly.
12,000 interests in one day.
I'm suddenly over writing this.
Eggs and bacon.

OK, after writing that I think my autism symptoms are limited to the environment and people but do exist in me always, they just become bothersome at very specific moments.

ADHD, however, is constant. ADHD involves actually focusing on something, reading and using your short term memory. We humans always rely on these to function properly. I can easily be medicated for these symptoms too and they become less bothersome, but autism can not be medicated way. Well...there are anti-depressants and a little something called Risperidone which can lessen repetitive behaviour, fear of change, intense interests, meltdowns, anxiety as well as the stuff you actually have to take them for.

It doesn't matter if there are similarities, I can pretty much separate my autism from ADHD. When people see me they see more autism. I shut down and won't be able to even show them the hyperactivity. The environment is just so overwhelming.

So, after that rather long self-assessment, I'm saying autism is the worst one for me. ADHD is still a horrible constant hindrance but it doesn't affect me around interacting with people as much as autism is.

edit: Actually I still can't answer the poll. Is it equal or do I show more traits than others?

Also, after the DSM 5 is released can we please start calling it autism? Am I the only HFA here? I'm not a hopeless empty vessel because I'm autistic so don't be afraid to use the word.

Flia
01-19-13, 07:06 AM
I have both (though only diagnosed with ADHD). I find that which one dominates is different depending on where I am in life, what I'm stressed about and if I'm amongst aspies or ADHD'ers.

On the outside one may mask the other.

Sugar8
02-11-13, 09:13 PM
Eh. No f**king idea.

Here, I shall brainstorm.

Autism:

No desire in people.
Intense interests and encyclopaedic memory for them.
Strong attention to details.
Stimming.
Severe sensory processing issues.
Objects>people
Animals>people
Repetitive movements
MUST HAVE ROUTINE!
I hate change to the point of anxiety and meltdowns.
Good organisational skills.
No f**king clue about what to say to people unless I talk about my interests.
Still discovering basic social skills.
Had very little friends in school
Didn't talk to people until I was 14.
Took many years to develop a theory of mind and empathy for others.
A severe introvert and systemiser.
Echolalia and echopraxia
Disconnection from others, actually feel disconnected.
In school only wanted to learn about what I was interested in.

ADHD:

Hard time focusing or pulling away something I'm interested in.
Difficultly motivating myself to do long or tiresome tasks.
Hyperactive/impulsive, usually in speech, actions and with money.
Brain fog.
Thinks a lot, comes up with crazy ideas that I want to try out but then never seem to start or stick with.
Forgets things all the time.
Argues all the time. Doesn't notice when I offend someone. Or when I'm arguing.
Uses up energy too quickly.
12,000 interests in one day.
I'm suddenly over writing this.
Eggs and bacon.

OK, after writing that I think my autism symptoms are limited to the environment and people but do exist in me always, they just become bothersome at very specific moments.

ADHD, however, is constant. ADHD involves actually focusing on something, reading and using your short term memory. We humans always rely on these to function properly. I can easily be medicated for these symptoms too and they become less bothersome, but autism can not be medicated way. Well...there are anti-depressants and a little something called Risperidone which can lessen repetitive behaviour, fear of change, intense interests, meltdowns, anxiety as well as the stuff you actually have to take them for.

It doesn't matter if there are similarities, I can pretty much separate my autism from ADHD. When people see me they see more autism. I shut down and won't be able to even show them the hyperactivity. The environment is just so overwhelming.

So, after that rather long self-assessment, I'm saying autism is the worst one for me. ADHD is still a horrible constant hindrance but it doesn't affect me around interacting with people as much as autism is.

edit: Actually I still can't answer the poll. Is it equal or do I show more traits than others?

Also, after the DSM 5 is released can we please start calling it autism? Am I the only HFA here? I'm not a hopeless empty vessel because I'm autistic so don't be afraid to use the word.


I can relate to people with Autism... I'm thinking I may prefer associating with those with Autism than those without, just because maybe they will not judge me as harshly and may better understand the difficulty I face with ADHD. I so get the environment can be so overwhelming that the ADHD hyperactivity part shuts down. That happens to me often. I get some anxiety or frustration about things, and I want to use the students I teach (kids with Autism) as an excuse/justification for why things need to be labeled and put back int the same place they came from-- and why one table has to have blue and red chairs, and the other table has one red chair with a yellow chair on each end. Why can't other people keep it that way? Why don't they see it? The pattern? The routine? Why can't they follow through on the routines I am trying to establish for the kids, or maybe I"m trying to establish the routine for me too? Still, frustrating... when the routine is gone, I'm gone too.

SquarePeg
02-12-13, 04:49 AM
me and my 2 teenagers have recently been diagnosed adhd but the more I read on this board the more I think my daughter shows signs of aspergers autism as well.

im_out
02-12-13, 10:48 AM
I have no idea...

I was diagnosed with AS when I think that I may actually have just ADHD. I don't have repetitive movements/interests ala aspergers so I'm trying to get a new diagnosis. As for social impairments, that was clearly what the psychologist saw in me when she diagnosed me. And not just one mental health practitioner, but three back when I was diagnosed. They knew me for a short period of time at the end of high school and didn't know about my situation at home.

TBH though, I think that childhood neglect was the real reason why I displayed aspergers traits :( But I didn't tell anyone back then, and even now, it's a tough subject to bring up with just anyone. Because when you were neglected, people like to side with the parents instead of the child.

I've lost all my friends from high school and don't talk to new friends about my concerns. So all I have to go by is my boyfriend's word, but according to him, I only show ADHD traits. Pretty much all of the 18 signs of ADHD. Whereas he researched AS when I was diagnosed and doesn't really see how it affects me. I still think that I act AS when I meet new people, but again, I don't know if it's because of my upbringing or not.

Flia
02-12-13, 02:36 PM
Repetitive movements is one ASD trait, and far from every aspie has all traits.

Not all aspies have geeky interests either, though the frase "all or nothing" is appropriate for MOST aspies and ADHD'ers (one of my interests is crochet).

You could very well have both ASD and ADHD, it's very common to have traits from both.

Childhood neglect could simply be that your parents had undiagnosed Aspergers. With the more severe forms parenting is really really hard, and knowing how to react to your child can be very unclear.

After all, npd (neurophsychiatric disorders) are hereditary.

Lunacie
02-12-13, 05:00 PM
^ Good points, Flia.

im_out
02-13-13, 12:56 AM
Maybe one or both of my parents does have it, but if they do, they are in major denial. My mom is the one who treated me badly and it seems more likely to me that she has narcissistic personality disorder based on how she treats me versus my siblings. My mom doesn't seem to care about my feelings even when I tell her how I feel directly.

Flia
02-13-13, 07:27 AM
Maybe one or both of my parents does have it, but if they do, they are in major denial. My mom is the one who treated me badly and it seems more likely to me that she has narcissistic personality disorder based on how she treats me versus my siblings. My mom doesn't seem to care about my feelings even when I tell her how I feel directly.

I know exactly how that is. My father was the same.

Some severe cases of Aspergers can manifest itself in that way. They simply don't understand, and they don't feel empathy towards humans.

Also she probably is struggling with a world that seems totally weird and far too complicated. She thinks this feeling is normal, since it's all she's ever known. Her parents had this too, and the notion of how the world functions is of course learned from parent to child.

The feeling you have that your siblings are treated better could be that they have another way of treating her. In my case we have always envied each other for the way we thought they were treated. When we finally started talking we found that we all had very bad experiences of our father.

Talk to them, and to your father. Look at their experiences and feelings.
Maybe you can begin to understand her.

I've finally come to understand my parents, but still (at 56 years of age) can't forgive. But I now do understand that my siblings had the same childhood I had.
I'd hate for you to have the 50+ years of hate that I had. That's far too late to start understanding your parents.

im_out
02-13-13, 12:39 PM
I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I've gone through the possibilities so many times, wondering why they were the way they were. I've talked to my siblings and my dad. I can't even say for sure which one is the true possibility. But I am the kind of person who is not afraid to go to counseling to work out my problems. I have made all efforts to repair our relationship thinking that she was just autistic and naive, but that just caused her to hurt me even more. So I've researched this stuff pretty well and I've talked about it with my boyfriend and autistic or not, she is a toxic person to be around. I have so many more reasons to believe that she is narcissistic and not just autism and I could say them now but the list would be too long. It's quite obvious that our family dynamics have delegated roles to myself and my siblings. It hurts as the black sheep to not be listened to or believed, so I do lack confidence, but I am fairly certain that my mom is a narcissist.

Like I used to be parentified so out of four children, I was forced to take care of all of my family's needs. And I was the one who was supposed to solve arguments and figure this kind of stuff out. But that's been too unhealthy as I wouldn't take care of my own needs nor would my parents. So now I'm just trying to get rid of my past and move on, and it's best for me to accept that they will not change who they are. I don't really want to discuss it any further, but I do hope that you can understand that things in my situation are much more complicated than I can express here.

Flia
02-13-13, 02:52 PM
Of course I understand.

ackblerg
02-14-13, 05:33 AM
how comorbid are ADHD and aspergers? I was looking up aspergers because I am almost certain a friend has it- he displays so many of the symptoms. Then I came across a list of aspergers traits in women from this site. http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html
And I was surprised that I ticked every single box except a couple under social/relationships. I don't have any savant like abilities/am somewhat sociable- so I don't actually think I have aspergers- but I was surprised to see that I had a lot of the symptoms.

ackblerg
02-14-13, 05:34 AM
how comorbid are ADHD and aspergers? I was looking up aspergers because I am almost certain a friend has it- he displays so many of the symptoms. Then I came across a list of aspergers traits in women from this site. http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html
And I was surprised that I ticked every single box except a couple under social/relationships. I don't have any savant like abilities/am somewhat sociable- so I don't actually think I have aspergers- but I was surprised to see that I had a lot of the symptoms.

Flia
02-14-13, 09:16 AM
ackblerg: You have the classic view of Aspergers. Very few are savants, actually most savants are more low functioning autists.

"Somewhat sociable" is a perfect description of most aspies, especially women. The criteria is "having troble" with social interaction.
For me, that's not quite getting what people mean sometimes and not being able to have really close friends. And, as I have ADHD as well, I talk with strangers all the time.

The comorbidity is very high. You can have 2 traits of one and 2 of the other, or all of one and 2 of the other, or all of both.....

Also there are a few traits that are the same for both, especially for women. We (not all of course, and some men have these too) tend to internalize our problems and therefore we don't show as much.

Lunacie
02-14-13, 10:17 AM
how comorbid are ADHD and aspergers? I was looking up aspergers because I am almost certain a friend has it- he displays so many of the symptoms. Then I came across a list of aspergers traits in women from this site. http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html
And I was surprised that I ticked every single box except a couple under social/relationships. I don't have any savant like abilities/am somewhat sociable- so I don't actually think I have aspergers- but I was surprised to see that I had a lot of the symptoms.

Statistics say that between 60 to 70% of those dx with Asperger's also have ADHD.
I believe the numbers are much lower for those who have ADHD also having Asperger's.

Shaneybo
02-15-13, 04:01 PM
Statistics say that between 60 to 70% of those dx with Asperger's also have ADHD.
I believe the numbers are much lower for those who have ADHD also having Asperger's.

Where did you get this from? I would love to use that in my research. :thankyou:

Fortune
02-15-13, 04:13 PM
There are multiple studies with similar findings. One study is mentioned in Tony Attwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

daveddd
02-15-13, 04:20 PM
There are multiple studies with similar findings. One study is mentioned in Tony Attwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

correct my if im wrong fortune

but is it if a child is autistic(without ADHD traits) they are less likely to show ADHD signs as a teen

but adhd children (without current asd symptoms ) are more likely to have asd traits as teens

almost like one has more of a developmental pathway?

Fortune
02-15-13, 04:21 PM
I do not know. All I've read is that a fairly high percentage of autistic people meet the criteria for ADHD.

Shaneybo
02-15-13, 06:56 PM
correct my if im wrong fortune

but is it if a child is autistic(without ADHD traits) they are less likely to show ADHD signs as a teen

but adhd children (without current asd symptoms ) are more likely to have asd traits as teens

almost like one has more of a developmental pathway?

Looking at my growing number of ADHD friends, I would say out of 20 friends, I would say 2 would have ASD traits...

Spacemaster
02-15-13, 08:10 PM
The more I read, the more I believe that I may have Asperger's and ADHD both.

Social confusion, sensory issues, lack of empathy, and disconnect are the top few things that come to mind, though I could list more.

fracturedstory
02-16-13, 07:48 AM
When I'm not on medication I have an extreme lack of empathy. It's like I can't concentrate long enough to even consider a person's feelings. It's like it's too much effort. And my moods are just so extreme, so when I'm angry or sad or even happy none of that gets through to me.

I still can't vote...

Lunacie
02-16-13, 11:58 AM
When I'm not on medication I have an extreme lack of empathy. It's like I can't concentrate long enough to even consider a person's feelings. It's like it's too much effort. And my moods are just so extreme, so when I'm angry or sad or even happy none of that gets through to me.

I still can't vote...

I'm not voting because I don't think I have Asperger's. I think I have PDD-NOS.

daveddd
02-16-13, 12:02 PM
if anything i would be PDD nos too (which in my opinion is the severe end of ADHD)

just because the diagnostic criteria for ADHD does not yet include the social, empathetic,and sensory issues, that are known to be such a large part of ADHD

Fortune
02-16-13, 06:44 PM
PDD-NOS is a lot of things. It's not just one thing. People diagnosed with PDD-NOS make up the majority of people diagnosed as autistic. They are more severe than people diagnosed with AS, less severe than people diagnosed with AS, as severe as people diagnosed with autism, less severe than people diagnosed with autism. PDD-NOS is not a singular diagnosis encapsulating an easily defined group of people. It's a catch-all diagnosis for people who are clearly autistic but do not meet the criteria for autism or AS.

I know people diagnosed with it who basically meet the AS criteria except they had a speech delay. So: PDD-NOS. I know people diagnosed with it because they should have been diagnosed with autism but the clinician did not want to give them a stigmatizing label. I know people diagnosed with it because they have notionally "improved" (and people diagnosed with AS for the same reason) from being "full-blown autistic", and this is not what the diagnosis is intended for.

I can't find the study right now but it was performed and highlighted by at least one of those who worked on the DSM-5 criteria for ASD who found that which diagnosis you receive is sometimes more dependent on where you were diagnosed than on what your presentation was. That is, people who would be diagnosed as AS in some clinics ended up diagnosed as PDD-NOS in other clinics, and vice versa.

While it is actually extremely difficult to draw a distinct and clear line between AS and autism because they overlap significantly, it is virtually impossible to define PDD-NOS as any single thing.

daveddd
02-16-13, 06:48 PM
thats true

but i have come across a specific symptom grouping that seems to commonly receive a pdd nos label

i feel like it fits me better