View Full Version : Thoughts on new Barkley Video


Dizfriz
02-02-13, 10:02 AM
I do not know how much use this will be. I am not trying to do a comprehensive review of the video just discuss the items of interest to me. Naturally I did not make notes of things that I was already familiar with.


ConcertaParent was so kind as to a link to these videos. I thought they are important enough to give some commentary on them.

You can find them by looking up "burnett lecture barkley" and going to the youtube site.

First some background which may be useful or may not as the case may be.

Barkley has proposed a new theory on Executive Functions in his new book aptly named Executive Functions published May 2012. His theory of ADHD is based on it being a delay in developing those abilities. His theory of EF explains what they are, why we have them and what impact a delay in developing these has.

He has proposed a theory what he feels is a better way of handling the subject

There have been criticisms of Barkley's theory based on tests of executive functions not showing significant degrees of a deficit in EF therefore casting doubt on his theory of ADHD. I have read or read of several of these and it is an ongoing controversy.

He has published his book to present this theory and counter the criticisms and this is what the videos are primarily about. I do not suggest these for someone starting to learn about ADHD. The caddac videos I think may be of more value for this. You can find the links to them at http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1099114#post1099114

As an aside, I am going through my second read of his book. The first time was to get the general gist, the second is to concentrate on the details and to attempt to better understand what he is trying to say. I am half way through the second reading and had to take a break to give me some time to wrap my brain around what he is saying. I plan to return to it in the next couple of days so don't ask me to explain much yet.

If his lectures seem information dense, you should try to read his academic books. They make his videos look simple and basic, which by comparison they are. The book is aimed at other scientists, not the general public.

To the videos:

I really liked the videos as they helped me better understand his theory on EF and will help me deal with his book. I am not going to try to address the theory very much but will let the video handle it for anyone interested. It really is good and he explains his ideas quite well but be warned, they are focused mainly on discussing his theory of executive functions. Be warned, the lecture is information dense and fast. Without a some background, it may be easy to get lost.

Here are some of my notes. I recorded those things that I felt gave me a better explanation of some of the concepts, points new to me, and stats that I could use. I am putting them in my words so I am responsible for any errors and please point out and forgive them.

Executive functions, Barkley is proposing in the video seven functions each one coming after the earlier. This is new, he used to describe 4 functions.

1. Turn attention to self ..self awareness. Begins about 3 months and is the first to establish

2. Inhibition of motor system. Self restraint or executive inhibition. Use images to stop motor activity. Not putting a hand on a stove burner using images of past pain.

3. Non verbal working memory is images in the mind.

These three develop together and peak around 10-15 years

Images are a response to past experiences and act as a map or guide. Young children use this exclusively. They don't verbalize Mom being angry at them, they see an image in their mind and react accordingly.

4. Around age 5 talk moves from public speech to private speech to the self. Below this what they think is what they say which is one of the joys of working with young children. They think it, they say it.

5 The child begins using these executive functions to manipulate or create emotions. The ability to use images and later words to elicit or control emotions is an important concept in his EF theory. Images have emotions welded on them, an important point.

Stages 1-5 give the ability to modify emotional states, to delay anger as an example.

6 From stages 1-5, the child can begin manage emotions in order to manage motivation. The ability to manage emotions give rise to the ability to manage motivation. Look at emotion as a motivational state. It is emotion that gives rise to motivations.

7 planning and problem solving private play. The last, the ability to take behaviors and the environment apart and put them together in novel ways, to explore the environment using the mind. Children use play to deal with their environment. Adults tend to take this internal and play in the mind using both images and words..

The idea of a two part system First is SOR: Stimulus, organism, response-basically Skinnerian. All animals have this and all but a few operate totally on this system.

Second level is self awareness. This allows humans to monitor themselves-cognitive in nature.

Now to some meat, a *very* simplified explanation of what Barkley is saying.

Barkley's theory of EF looks at phenotypes as spreading into the environment in a multitude of ways. He sees the phenotype as extended to the environment, manipulating the world around the individual. . This involves human cooperative interaction and culture. It is based on genotype and the extended phenotype is the result.

Extended phenotypes Using driving as an example

Operational learn physically handle the auto.

Tactical on road, how to deal with traffic, people and the other aspects of getting from point A to point B.

Strategic to plan out routes, deal with delays, think ahead to find the best way to drive to point B within a time frame. . Barkley sees this as a example of extended phenotype. Again it is based on the genetics allowing the abilities to emerge to give the tools for individuals to deal with the world around them.

The reason for EF is to allow us to manipulate others to do what is beneficial to the individual and to the individual and others. Getting others to cooperate on a common goal is a good example. Extends to culture. Barkley sees all of this as part of the extended phenotype.

This is too much to this for me to try to explain here except in this simple form. Watch the videos or get Barkley's book. I would suggest the videos to start if this is something you are interested in.

More notes:

Average time horizon. I have discussed this a number of times. This is average where most of us operate. That does not mean that we cannot see further than this it is just that we normally operate within these bounds.

Six year old 12 hours

Teen 2-3 days

College 2-3 weeks

Adult age thirty 2-3 months

ADHD is a disorder of "when" an "where" not "what" and "how".

Adult ADHD 40% delay as opposed to the 30% I often use. Just a quick comment on Barkley's part but I though it interesting

Knowing what to do but not being able to do what you know. Barkley stressed this a lot as he usually does. It is key to his ideas on working with the disorder, how to help ADHDers do what they know.

The task is to build external scaffolding (prosthetic structure) around the environment to support doing what you know.

On meds: If ADHD is a neurogenetic disorder then much of treatment should be neurogenetic, thus meds should be the most effective treatment and that is the way it turns out.

Non medical treatment

1. Make mental information external vision

2. Make time physical, outside the person. Clocks, timers, reminders any thing that will make time real.

3. Make motivation external in the now. I cannot stress this enough.

Small note: Video games involve no internal motivation. Homework requires internal motivation and that is why kids can do video games for hours but not homework

4. Make problem solving manual. Example for math, use beads, abacus, calculators.

5. EF like a fuel tank and can run empty. This is new to me but if accurate, I like it.

Some ways to refill the EF tank:

Homework short breaks, (10 min)

10/3 10 min work 3 min break. I like this for younger children.

Motivational talk to self. "I can do this!" "I will get a reward when I finish." as examples.

Talk about future rewards. ADHD kids work in the now but this helps.

Exercise helps fill tank recess plus makes for a bigger tank.

Fuel=sugar in blood stream in frontal lobes...keep blood sugar up by sipping fluid. Note sipping and not gulping. This is new to me but it makes sense and I think it needs to be passed along.

Three programs to help with adult ADHD: 1. cognitive behavioral therapy-Ramsey. I am aware of this and it is reported as having some success.

There were two more but I could not catch them. If any one did, please let us know. He described them as being worthwhile with a degree of success.

He listed several for children and I did not note them but did the important point that but must be done by the teacher or parent (point of performance), and not by the clinician in the office. I have been involved with programs like social skills training and to work they must be experiential and not pedagogical (in real time, not classroom)

He reports ADHD as being the most treatable disorder in psychiatry and reports that, with medication, 50% are normalized and there is a 90% positive response rate.

He reports that 40% of children and 90% of adults are not treated. This is not an overtreated disorder.

With teenagers, he recommends keeping them on meds and if needed pay them for this by connecting it to their allowance or driving privileges.

He highly recommend making ADHDers accountable to others. He used the ADHD coaching system as a very good example.

How to know if a behavior constitutes a disorder. A good way of describing part of the process of diagnosis.

1. Occurs more frequently than the peer group 2. Is more severe than normally seen in peer group. 3. Is more pervasive than normal in that it affects more domains than normally seen. 4. Last and most important, it must interfere with manor life activities


He discusses the fact that that there are no tests for mental disorders-none. He also states that 1/2 of all medical disorders have no tests. I was aware of mental disorders and tests but did not have stats on medical disorders and tests.

Comments on Cognitive Memory Training. Not validated at this point. No carry over seen so far.

Small point: Perceptual speed ADHD up and down, SCT PI slow


Comorbidities 80% ADHD children have one comorbid disorder. 50% have a 3rd disorder

More common comorbid disorders by occurrence:

1 ODD(Oppositional Defiant Disorder) 65% kids diagnosed with ODD within 2 years after ADHD diagnosis. I feel that ODD is often tied into ADHD but he did not discuss this in the lecture.

2 Conduct Disorder 25-45%.

3 Depression 20-27% More often seen more by teenage years.

4 Anxiety 25% in children, 35-40% in adults

5 LD(learning disabilities) 50% in children with LDs that are not due to ADHD.

Comprehension and reading disorders have direct connections to ADHD. If you treat ADHD both improve because both are involved with working memory with is a deficit of ADHD. Something new to me and very interesting.

Tourette's and OCD are related often seen in the family and sometimes in the same individuals. Described as being the same genotype.

Bipolar like Tourette's is a one way comorbidity. More so the younger the child when diagnosed as Bipolar. If youthful bipolar 97% are also ADHD. New emphasis on age of onset as part of comorbidity.

Prescribing medications to start: Look at the family history. If a relative did not react well to a medication then others in the family probably will not also. Much of response to medications is genetic. I did not think of it this way but it makes good sense.

When you are dealing with Anxiety, Bedwetting, Tourette's and OCD then you probably should not start with the stimulants as they may exacerbate the symptoms of these disorders. I was aware of some of these but not all.

A quick comment on Hartmann ideas of hunter gatherer and ADHD. Barkley states that research on the leaders of those cultures are mostly not ADHD. The traits valued by these cultures are not ones involved with ADHD.


I thought some of this might be interesting. Take or leave as you wish.

Dizfriz

GeordieDave
02-02-13, 10:21 AM
There has already been about 3 thread about this. Have a search there is activity in all of them.

Dizfriz
02-02-13, 10:25 AM
There has already been about 3 thread about this. Have a search there is activity in all of them.
I know but some of them I don't want to be involved with. I did not post this to have arguments but simply to give some information.

Thanks for the heads up though.

Dizfriz

Lunacie
02-02-13, 10:38 AM
Adult ADHD 40% delay as opposed to the 30% I often use. Just a quick comment on Barkley's part but I though it interesting

Just did the math (thanks to a calculator) and developmentally speaking

I'm the same age as my daughter . . . 38. :giggle:

Actually, in some ways she has always 'felt' older than me.

GeordieDave
02-02-13, 10:46 AM
I know but some of them I don't want to be involved with. I did not post this to have arguments but simply to give some information.

Thanks for the heads up though.

Dizfriz

haha no worries. I never argue on here :P just wanted to let you know incase you didn't know.

my brain is so fuzzy atm i cant even be bothered to type nevermind argue haha.

i did watch his video and its crazy how much i related to some of the stuff he was talking about.

Lunacie
02-02-13, 10:58 AM
There has already been about 3 thread about this. Have a search there is activity in all of them.

I know but some of them I don't want to be involved with. I did not post this to have arguments but simply to give some information.

Thanks for the heads up though.

Dizfriz

As Dizfriz pointed out, the video is so information dense,

I think we could easily have several threads dealing with different points

made by Dr. Barkley.

dvdnvwls
02-02-13, 12:20 PM
Adult ADHD 40% delay as opposed to the 30% I often use. Just a quick comment on Barkley's part but I though it interesting

Just did the math (thanks to a calculator) and developmentally speaking

I'm the same age as my daughter . . . 38. :giggle:

Actually, in some ways she has always 'felt' older than me.
I'm not sure this would count, after you reach some point of theoretical maturity - if, say, [I don't know just making this up] a human is theoretically mentally mature at 25, then maybe you would stop counting at that point. But I still like your idea. :)

Lunacie
02-02-13, 01:30 PM
I'm not sure this would count, after you reach some point of theoretical maturity - if, say, [I don't know just making this up] a human is theoretically mentally mature at 25, then maybe you would stop counting at that point. But I still like your idea. :)

That's what I had been wondering as well, but it seems Dr. Barkley says

the EFDD delay doesn't get better with age, in fact it seems to get worse.

Unless he meant his previous figure of 30% delay was inaccurate.

Dizfriz
02-02-13, 01:35 PM
I'm not sure this would count, after you reach some point of theoretical maturity - if, say, [I don't know just making this up] a human is theoretically mentally mature at 25, then maybe you would stop counting at that point. But I still like your idea. :)
Generally the frontal part of the brain matures somewhere around 25 or 30. I like to use 30 but it is not really important in context.

What happens is at that point development more or less stops. So what you have at 30 is kinda sorta what you will have the rest of your life as far as executive functions go.

What you will find is that often an untreated ADHD 30 year old is operating more like someone in their early twenties as far as this goes. They may, in comparison to their peers be more impulsive, have a impaired time sense and so on.

The gap is still there but medication can help a lot even normalizing about 50% of the adults according to the video.

All of these are rule of thumb type issues and are only good for general guides and don't fit all but are handy if not taken too literally and always keep in mind that the stats are for untreated ADHD.

Dizfriz

mildadhd
02-02-13, 03:09 PM
Dizfriz,

What about Dr.Barkley putting emotion back into his theory of ADD?

I am not sure if this information is in the book your reading?

I didn't see much about the development of emotional regulation in your posts in this thread?

Really important information in my opinion.




(See video 1/3)


(approx 13:15)...we have over ten thousand research papers on this disorder as well,

but one of the things we haven't spoken about since the 1960's,

but now that we are coming back to,

is that ADHD is just as much a disorder of emotion,

as it is a hyperactivity,

inhibition,

distraction,

and concentration.

People with ADHD are very impulsive in displaying there emotions,

so that there emotions come up to quickly to raw,

to unmoderated,

as a result of that they are often accused of being socially and emotionally immature,

now this is not a mood disorder,

their moods are not irrational,

it is simply a disorder in which they can't regulate the emotions that other people can,

the top down executive control over normal emotion just isn't there,

to the degree that it should be.

Now the reason we are so convinced that emotion needs to be put back into adhd,

is because this set of symptoms account for many of the impairments that can't be explained by the more traditional symptoms of the disorder...(approx. 14:25)


( approx 14:41))....when things provoke you and upset you,

if you have ADHD your emotions are up and out and the damage is done before you had a chance to get any traction,

over moderating this,

and bringing your emotions to be more consistent with the situation,

and with your long term welfare,

so we are now realizing and many papers have been written,

are making this case that ADHD is just as much a problem of impulsive emotions as it is with impulsive behavior,

impulsive cognition and impulsive speech.

And it explains a lot about these individuals,

not the least of which is of course,

there social difficulties.

But it is also one of the best predictors,

of there driving problems,

there finacial problems,

there marital problems,

there child rearing problems,

and it is one of the main reasons,

why they will be fired from a job,

four times more often,

than other people are likely to do.

You don't get fired because your distractable,

but you will get fired,

if you are angry with a customer,

and if you blow up and are impatient,

and easily frustrated,

so this is a domain of ADHD that is often under appreciated,

but is now being put back into our models,

and theories and explanations of the disorder.( approx. 15:50)

-Dr.Russell Barkley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc

Lunacie
02-02-13, 03:19 PM
Dizfriz,

What about Dr.Barkley putting emotion back into his theory of ADD?


(See video 1/3)

Didn't you start a thread on that topic?

Can we please talk about that aspect in your thread?

When the same topic gets talked about in more than one thread

I find it very confusing.

For instance, I will remember reading a post but not be able to find it again

because it was posted in a different thread entirely.

mildadhd
02-02-13, 03:38 PM
Didn't you start a thread on that topic?

Can we please talk about that aspect in your thread?

When the same topic gets talked about in more than one thread

I find it very confusing.

For instance, I will remember reading a post but not be able to find it again

because it was posted in a different thread entirely.



Edit: Dizfriz,

For Lunacie I don't mind if you reply at the thread link I started about Dr.Barkley putting Emotion back into his theory.

But I hope you reply some where?

You are missing a very important part in your thoughts,

in my opinion.

It is very important information in regards to attachment.

And the development of self regulation,



Video Part One

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138827


Now the reason we are so convinced that emotion needs to be put back into adhd,

is because this set of symptoms account for many of the impairments that can't be explained by the more traditional symptoms of the disorder...(approx. 14:25)

-Dr.Barkley

Dizfriz
02-02-13, 03:55 PM
Dizfriz,

What about Dr.Barkley putting emotion back into his theory of ADD?

I am not sure if this information is in the book your reading?

I didn't see much about the development of emotional regulation in your posts in this thread?

Really important information in my opinion.

I did not put it into my notes as I am familiar with his views on this. I mentioned in my OP that I was going to do this so to me, there is not a lot to discuss on this point in this context.
Dizfriz

mildadhd
02-02-13, 04:29 PM
I did not put it into my notes as I am familiar with his views on this. I mentioned in my OP that I was going to do this so to me, there is not a lot to discuss on this point in this context.
Dizfriz


Dizfriz,

In the quote below,

Dr.Barkley mentions why it is important to rethink old ideas,

because they explain "impairments that can't be explained by the more traditional symptoms of the disorder".

These impairments that involve emotion involve the attachment relationship in people with ADD that you have been a strong critic of in my posts over the years.

Also crucial to understanding development of emotional self regulation , executive regulation, and other forms of self regulation.

There is lots of topics to discuss from the videos.

It would be nice to here your present view of the addition of emotions in Dr.Barkley's theory.

Like Lunacie has pointed out,

I have started a thread,

and I am hoping you would join the conversation in that thread.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138827


Now the reason we are so convinced that emotion needs to be put back into adhd,

is because this set of symptoms account for many of the impairments that can't be explained by the more traditional symptoms of the disorder...(approx. 14:25)

-Dr.Barkley

Dizfriz
02-02-13, 04:53 PM
Dizfriz,

In the quote below,

Dr.Barkley mentions why it is important to rethink old ideas,

because they explain "impairments that can't be explained by the more traditional symptoms of the disorder".

These impairments that involve emotion involve the attachment relationship in people with ADD that you have been a strong critic of in my posts over the years.

Also crucial to understanding development of emotional self regulation , executive regulation, and other forms of self regulation.

There is lots of topics to discuss from the videos.

It would be nice to here your present view of the addition of emotions in Dr.Barkley's theory.

Like Lunacie has pointed out,

I have started a thread,

and I am hoping you would join the conversation in that thread.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138827


Barkley has been discussing issues with emotional regulation in ADHD for years. This is nothing new for him. What I think he is saying is that his new theory on EF warrants placing more emphasis on this aspect.

I am drawing back on participation on the forum for the time being so I really do not want to get into an involved discussion right now, I simply do not have the time, busy with other projects.

I do appreciate your post however. Thanks for posting it.

Dizfriz

mildadhd
02-02-13, 05:02 PM
Barkley has been discussing issues with emotional regulation in ADHD for years. This is nothing new for him. What I think he is saying is that his new theory on EF warrants placing more emphasis on this aspect.

I am drawing back on participation on the forum for the time being so I really do not want to get into an involved discussion right now, I simply do not have the time, busy with other projects.

I do appreciate your post however. Thanks for posting it.

Dizfriz

For the record,

In Dr.Bruce Perry's core strengths of normal development,

Self Regulation is built upon Attachment.(in all people)

A lot of people look to you for advice here at ADDF.

I am disappointed that you are not participating in the discussions,

since you have had a strong voice in a stance against the importance of understanding the relationship between ADD and attachment(more specifically attunement),

in my post opinions in the past.


That being said,

I hope you get what you need done.

Take Care


.

Lunacie
02-02-13, 06:16 PM
Edit: Dizfriz,

For Lunacie I don't mind if you reply at the thread link I started about Dr.Barkley putting Emotion back into his theory.

But I hope you reply some where?

You are missing a very important part in your thoughts,

in my opinion.

It is very important information in regards to attachment.

And the development of self regulation,



Video Part One

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138827


Peripheral, if you'll check, I did reply on that thread.

The discussion seems to have stalled out.

mildadhd
02-02-13, 06:45 PM
Peripheral, if you'll check, I did reply on that thread.

The discussion seems to have stalled out.


I was asking Dizfriz to comment,

he is commenting here,

and I wanted to hear his opinion on the development emotional self regulation.

(I was also trying to work with your previous request in this thread to discuss the topic in the thread I started)

I am very happy with the discussion at that thread.

It seems there was no serious disagreement in the material,

in that thread.

No need for a long thread if everyone agrees.

I just wanted to discuss with Dizfriz as well,

but he is busy.


I only want to add important information to Dr.Barkley's new views.

That his traditional theory doesn't explain.

I don't disagree with most of what Dr.Barkley says in his videos,

there is lots of good topics in Dr.Barkley's videos.

Just that the development of emotional regulation preceeds the development of executive regulation.

(this is information makes very important difference to consider in regards to Barkley's addition of his newer theories.)


Again I would like to stress that I agree with everything Dr.Barkley says about Executive Function and ADD,

only that besides the emotional effects of having a problem with Executive Problems,

these executive problems are also shaped by a lack of emotional regulation,

previous to developing executive disregulation. (in people with ADD)




Dizfriz mentions some interesting points in the OP in this thread.

Like glucose in the function of the brain.

Although I do find Dr.Barkley kind of confusing on the glucose topics,

because he says that sugar is not bad for ADD.

But then says that sipping is good ,

but gulping is bad.

I agree with Dr.Barkley.

But to much sugar is bad,

as well as not enough sugar is bad.

So technically to much sugar is bad is bad for people with ADD.

Which contradicts Dr.Barkley saying sugar is not bad.

The amount of sugar in the blood stream is important.(just like diabetics)

But I understand his point that sipping sports drink could help.

Although I wonder if a consistent balanced diet of complex carbs/vegs/fruit and protein,

in moderation might work as well.

This is the same diet recommended for Diabetics.(which I totally agree with)

If blood sugar is low , liquid glucose is a excellent way to get glucose quickly to the brain.

It is good to see Dr.Barkley acknowledge blood sugar and brain flow.

(I know it has been a constant debate here at ADDF over the years in one way or another.)

Same with importance of exercise.

mildadhd
02-02-13, 07:27 PM
Addition:

Same with meditation,

Same with awareness.

Not sure if I agree totally with 10 minutes on,

3 minutes off.

I prefer one step at a time,

but Dr.Barkley's idea has some value,

(if someone stopped me every ten minutes, I think I would get upset)

Will start another thread on this subject.

I learn tonnes from Dizfriz and Barkley,

but not only Dizfriz and Barkley.

Barkley is the father of time blindness and executive function (and many other realted topics) of ADD as I know it.

Mate is the father of emotional topics(and many other related topics of ADD.) as I know it.

Both complement the other in my opinion.

Both require understanding of the other.

Comparing them both and other ADD researchers works best for me.


.

dvdnvwls
02-02-13, 08:19 PM
I was asking Dizfriz to comment,

he is commenting here,

and I wanted to hear his opinion on the development emotional self regulation.
Whatever your intentions, I perceive your last couple of posts as trying to make Barkley say what you would like him to be saying, and make Dizfriz say what you would like him to be saying as well. Perhaps letting them each speak for themselves would be more educational.

mildadhd
02-02-13, 08:30 PM
Whatever your intentions, I perceive your last couple of posts as trying to make Barkley say what you would like him to be saying, and make Dizfriz say what you would like him to be saying as well. Perhaps letting them each speak for themselves would be more educational.

I am interested in what you have to say about any of the material in this thread in any post.

Or are you here to just to press emotional buttons?

dvdnvwls
02-02-13, 09:31 PM
I am interested in what you have to say about any of the material in this thread in any post.

Or are you here to just to press emotional buttons?
Regarding this particular topic, I came to read. I don't have anything intelligent to add to this topic. I would prefer to be able to read it without spam from other threads being put in my way.

mildadhd
02-02-13, 09:36 PM
Regarding this particular topic, I came to read. I don't have anything intelligent to add to this topic. I would prefer to be able to read it without spam from other threads being put in my way.


Right. Sorry about that. Won't happen again.

saturday
02-02-13, 09:52 PM
Question about the three "networks", what, why and how... I think thats what they were... Anyway, can someone dumb it down for me? What symptoms are associated with which networks, and which parts of the brain?

dvdnvwls
02-02-13, 10:36 PM
Won't happen again.
Are you serious about that? If so, thank you.

Lunacie
02-03-13, 11:02 AM
5. EF like a fuel tank and can run empty. This is new to me but if accurate, I like it.


That's one way of looking at it.

I've been looking at it in terms of The Spoon Theory. (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-)

That seems to fit mental energy as well as it does physical energy,

it fits mental illness as well as it does physical illness.


http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the- (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the)
spoon-theory/

ConcertaParent
02-03-13, 08:51 PM
I was also confused by Barkley recommending sugar rich beverages such as Gatorade and sports drinks. Since I have read that the simple sugars such as fructose and glucose can make ADHD symptoms worse, I was considering an elimination diet or at least reducing sugar for my child. :confused: Since my child has to take standardized tests again this year, should I request that she be allowed to sip Gatorade or lemonade during the tests?

Barkley (http://russellbarkley.org/factsheets/ADHD_EF_and_SR.pdf): "Such temporary depletions may be further exacerbated by stress, alcohol or other drug use, illness, or even low levels of blood glucose.
Research also indicates what factors may serve to more rapidly replenish the resource pool such as ...
consuming glucose rich beverages during the task."

The Physiology of Willpower: Linking Blood Glucose to Self-Control (http://carlo-hamalainen.net/stuff/Gailliot%20Baumeister%20-%20The%20physiology%20of%20willpower%3A%20linking% 20blood%20glucose%20to%20self-control.pdf)
Abstract
Past research indicates that self-control relies on some sort of limited energy source. This review suggests that blood glucose is one important part of the energy source of self-control. Acts of self-control deplete relatively large amounts of glucose. Self-control failures are more likely when glucose is low or cannot be mobilized effectively to the brain (i.e., when insulin is low or insensitive). Restoring glucose to a sufficient level typically improves self-control. Numerous self-control behaviors fit this pattern, including controlling attention, regulating emotions, quitting smoking, coping with stress, resisting impulsivity, and refraining from criminal and aggressive behavior. Alcohol reduces glucose throughout the brain and body and likewise impairs many forms of self-control. Furthermore, self-control failure is most likely during times of the day when glucose is used least effectively. Self-control thus appears highly susceptible to glucose. Self-control benefits numerous social and interpersonal processes. Glucose might therefore be related to a broad range of social behavior.
Like glucose in the function of the brain.

Although I do find Dr.Barkley kind of confusing on the glucose topics,

because he says that sugar is not bad for ADD.

But then says that sipping is good ,

but gulping is bad.

I agree with Dr.Barkley.

But to much sugar is bad,

as well as not enough sugar is bad.

So technically to much sugar is bad is bad for people with ADD.

Which contradicts Dr.Barkley saying sugar is not bad.

The amount of sugar in the blood stream is important.(just like diabetics)

But I understand his point that sipping sports drink could help.

Although I wonder if a consistent balanced diet of complex carbs/vegs/fruit and protein,

in moderation might work as well.

This is the same diet recommended for Diabetics.(which I totally agree with).

mildadhd
02-03-13, 09:15 PM
ConcertaParent,

I am glad you brought the topic up.

There is lots of negative things I didn't think about.

I think that a elimination diet is a good idea.

Takes time but I am working on elimination diet as well (dairy and bread ,even whole wheat is giving me trouble)( I also seem to be addicted to stuff I am allergic to)

The sensitive nature of people with ADD,

also contributes to allergies,(as well as emotional allergies)

I agree with your point.

Simple sugars should be avoided.

Complex sugars and vegetables/fruits, and protein Etc...(moderation)




If people with Diabetes sipped simple sugars everyday their blood sugar would be up and down like a yoyo.

Also could make diabetes worse. (or even give a person diabetes)

The only benefit of drinking simple sugars is that it enters the blood stream very fast,

compared to complex sugars.

Which is good if blood sugar is dangerously low.

Or in the case of ADDer writing a test with low blood sugar.

But definitely not a good daily routine.



I was wondering if actually testing blood sugar would help people with ADD, when considering a good diet.


I am also wondering about the biochemistry in regards to the many other hormones that effect the function of Autonomic Nervous System Function.(ANS)(and vice versa)

If the ANS can be affected by glucose what about cortisol,(stress)

and the many other hormones/neurotransmitters.

I am researching these topics,

and I can't see how there isn't some effect.


The goal is not to cure ADD,(which would be great)

but to make the lives of people with ADD better,

any way we can.


.


.




.

meadd823
02-05-13, 02:04 AM
while simple sugar do raise blood sugar levels they also allow them to drop quickly as well. it would seem logical to combine a simple sugar with a protein or complex carbohydrate

What is the Glycemic Index? (http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=faq&dbid=32)

People without diabetes will also find it helpful to choose a low to moderate GI way of eating since it can help them to:

more carefully regulate their blood glucose and avoid developing the health risk factors noted above
reverse Syndrome X conditions
maintain a healthy energy level and avoid feelings of low energy and fatigue

Have you ever noticed that you feel lethargic after eating foods that stimulate a large insulin response, such as donuts or candy? This often happens because too much insulin is produced in response to such foods, and this excess insulin causes blood sugar levels to drop below normal, resulting in low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) and fatigue.

When this happens, people who are unaware that the high sugar food they just ate is the reason for their sudden drop in energy reach for another sweet or high carbohydrate food, which starts the cycle all over again. When our blood sugar is bouncing from too high to too low repeatedly throughout the day, we certainly don't feel our best. On the other hand, when our food choices help us maintain consistent normal blood sugar levels, we feel great and have the energy we need to enjoy long, active days.

As some one who has ADHD and problems with hypoglycemia I would not offer a high fructose drink by it self - Sipping ever know an ADHD child to sip any thing?