View Full Version : Stimulants and Sleep


Blue_E46
02-13-13, 06:46 PM
I voted no on this one because I assume the part of the brain that causes physical hyperactivity and the part of the brain that causes cognitive hyperactivity are separate.

I base my assumption off experience and logic. My body is not hyperactive, but my mind is. I used to take Adderall and after adjusting to it I could actually take naps, sometimes right after dosing; although the Adderall helped me focus my thoughts, it never stopped my mind from racing.

Interestingly though, I do remember for about the first three nights after first dosing Adderall in the morning I was able to fall asleep fairly quickly those night. I honestly don't recall ever not having my mind racing at night with or without a stimulant.

Thanks for this thread... If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep.

starry
02-13-13, 11:15 PM
I voted no on this one because I assume the part of the brain that causes physical hyperactivity and the part of the brain that causes cognitive hyperactivity are separate.

I base my assumption off experience and logic. My body is not hyperactive, but my mind is. I used to take Adderall and after adjusting to it I could actually take naps, sometimes right after dosing; although the Adderall helped me focus my thoughts, it never stopped my mind from racing.

Interestingly though, I do remember for about the first three nights after first dosing Adderall in the morning I was able to fall asleep fairly quickly those night. I honestly don't recall ever not having my mind racing at night with or without a stimulant.

Thanks for this thread... If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep.

"My body is not hyperactive, but my mind is."

Same here! This is exactly how I would describe my ADD.

"If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep."

Yes, I know of one and that is Xanax. The mind racing never stops for me, even when I'm asleep, preventing me to get quality sleep. So I just lie there, somewhat sleeping but my brain is still awake and thinking about a million things non-stop! I've tried Melatonin for years, it only worked for a few hours at a time in the first few weeks and then nothing.
Actual sleep medications didn't work either.
But for some reason Xanax works so perfectly for my condition and never failed working once!
God bless my doctor for diagnosing that my sleep disorder was due to "night time anxiety disorder" and not so much sleep related and prescribed me an anxiety medication to take before sleeping.
Not only do I stop thinking about anything, but it also puts me to sleep and I get a quality REM all through the night.
Since it's very short acting medication, I might have to take a little more, if I should wake up after a few hours. But it's easy to break into bits if you take the rectangle shape one. I take 0.5 mg before bed and more if needed, not to exceed 2 mg a night, since that is my prescribed dose.

Never tried Klonopin or the other anxiety meds and they may work well too/ or not. I'm happy with what works for me.

If you want to keep taking more natural remedies, I've heard Kava Kava works good with Melatonin. It didn't work for me. But everyones' different.
I would prefer that a natural/holistic remedy had worked for me, but sadly it didn't.

Btw I wouldn't advise taking benzos daily after the age of 55, since I've read about a new study that they cause dementia in patients over 55.
So I will have to look for something else for sleep after I reach that age. Not looking forward to it that's for sure.

noradd
02-14-13, 01:08 AM
If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep.

Try listening to audio books or something like this on your mp3 player at low volume. This makes falling asleep much easier. I lie in bed on the side with 1 earphone in my ear and listen to audio books. It's amazing how quickly you can fall asleep this way. You just have to find something to focus on other than your racing thoughts.

starry
02-14-13, 04:26 AM
Try listening to audio books or something like this on your mp3 player at low volume. This makes falling asleep much easier. I lie in bed on the side with 1 earphone in my ear and listen to audio books. It's amazing how quickly you can fall asleep this way. You just have to find something to focus on other than your racing thoughts.

Thanks noradd. Yea, that does make me sleepy and fall I fall asleep often. But then at some point (maybe half an hour later) I am back in that weird sleep state when my mind starts thinking again even though I'm sort of asleep still.
It's torture. I hate that sleep state so much.

noradd
02-14-13, 08:56 PM
Thanks noradd. Yea, that does make me sleepy and fall I fall asleep often. But then at some point (maybe half an hour later) I am back in that weird sleep state when my mind starts thinking again even though I'm sort of asleep still.
It's torture. I hate that sleep state so much.

Maybe you should take something for better sleep. I mean when I have a lot of stress I've also had it that I wake up after 2-3 hours and then simply couldn't fall asleep anymore because of the stress. Before I couldn't sleep I'd rather get something from the doctor.

mildadhd
02-14-13, 09:17 PM
"If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep."

Starry,

Do you sleep with any lights on? I find the sound of a fan helps a lot. (sometimes) (except I don't like the fan blowing on me, unless it is to hot)

starry
02-14-13, 10:08 PM
Maybe you should take something for better sleep. I mean when I have a lot of stress I've also had it that I wake up after 2-3 hours and then simply couldn't fall asleep anymore because of the stress. Before I couldn't sleep I'd rather get something from the doctor.

I'm prescribed Xanax for it. Works excellent. Standard sleep meds that I've tried (like Ambien) didn't help with the hypomania (racing thoughts while sleeping, due to my ADHD), but since it's an anxiety med, it works well in quieting my mind/thoughts. Another welcome effect is that it puts me to sleep fast and pretty much all through the night :)
The only problem with it is that when I reach 55, I'll have to find something else, since it's the long term use of benzos in people over 55 causes dementia. Thankfully I still a long time to get there. Heck I might even push my luck and see what happens. Not remembering much about my life might even be refreshing ;) Just kidding. I bet it sucks. The movie "The Notebook" came to my mind. Not being able to remember the most precious memories would truly suck, yes.

starry
02-14-13, 10:33 PM
Starry,

Do you sleep with any lights on? I find the sound of a fan helps a lot. (sometimes) (except I don't like the fan blowing on me, unless it is to hot)

No lights AND I have to wear a sleep mask and one ear plug (I can't like on my side with an ear plug in my ear, since it starts hurting my ear and I'm a side sleeper. Every time I turn to a different side, I take the ear plug out and put it in the other ear) since I need the room as quiet as possible.
I find that a fan is too noisy. Tried but couldn't get used to it. Plus I'm really paranoid and want to make sure I can still hear if there's a noise outside/ in the house, in case someone tries to break in.
I won't say here what they are, but I keep certain things under my pillow too, just in case I need to defend myself against an intruder.

I almost got kidnapped on the street by two adult men who tried to put me in a truck when I was 5, but fought really hard and escaped in the last second. I sure as hell won't make it that easy for an intruder that's for sure. I hope of course it'll never have to come to that. Ever.

Amtram
02-14-13, 10:49 PM
I have a white noise machine, and a box fan. The box fan gets used for hot nights, or in addition to the white noise machine if my daughter's friends are playing D&D in the next room overnight. I found that a nice 1 1/2 inch soft stretchy headband covers my eyes nicely so I don't get distracted by light, and 1 mg of xanax about an hour before bedtime.

Yeah, it's the brain chatter thing. When it's dark and quiet, my brain goes into overdrive. Xanax turns it down several notches.

Ironically, I have no trouble sleeping while I'm taking Adderall, because that also quiets the brain chatter, and it's the brain chatter that prevents me from sleeping.

I may have curbed a lot of the physical hyperactivity as an adult, but internally, I'm like a cat in a room full of ping-pong balls.

ana futura
02-15-13, 01:31 PM
No lights AND I have to wear a sleep mask and one ear plug (I can't like on my side with an ear plug in my ear, since it starts hurting my ear and I'm a side sleeper. Every time I turn to a different side, I take the ear plug out and put it in the other ear) since I need the room as quiet as possible.

I am deaf in one ear- it's like a gift from god! I am probably one of very few people who is not sad about their hearing loss.

Blue_E46
02-16-13, 02:13 PM
"My body is not hyperactive, but my mind is."

Same here! This is exactly how I would describe my ADD.

"If anyone knows of a non-stimulant med that has shown to stop one's mind from racing at bedtime, please post; even with 5mg of Melatonin and 3mg of Lunesta nightly, I still average 45 minutes to an hour to fall asleep."

Yes, I know of one and that is Xanax. The mind racing never stops for me, even when I'm asleep, preventing me to get quality sleep. So I just lie there, somewhat sleeping but my brain is still awake and thinking about a million things non-stop! I've tried Melatonin for years, it only worked for a few hours at a time in the first few weeks and then nothing.
Actual sleep medications didn't work either.
But for some reason Xanax works so perfectly for my condition and never failed working once!
God bless my doctor for diagnosing that my sleep disorder was due to "night time anxiety disorder" and not so much sleep related and prescribed me an anxiety medication to take before sleeping.
Not only do I stop thinking about anything, but it also puts me to sleep and I get a quality REM all through the night.
Since it's very short acting medication, I might have to take a little more, if I should wake up after a few hours. But it's easy to break into bits if you take the rectangle shape one. I take 0.5 mg before bed and more if needed, not to exceed 2 mg a night, since that is my prescribed dose.

Never tried Klonopin or the other anxiety meds and they may work well too/ or not. I'm happy with what works for me.

If you want to keep taking more natural remedies, I've heard Kava Kava works good with Melatonin. It didn't work for me. But everyones' different.
I would prefer that a natural/holistic remedy had worked for me, but sadly it didn't.

Btw I wouldn't advise taking benzos daily after the age of 55, since I've read about a new study that they cause dementia in patients over 55.
So I will have to look for something else for sleep after I reach that age. Not looking forward to it that's for sure.

Thanks for the advice on Xanax, I've actually been taking 0.5mg of Clonazepam (generic Klonopin) twice a day since 2003 for anxiety and can tell you that doesn't stop the racing thoughts for me. I'll ask my psychiatrist about switching to Xanax as mixing benzos is a no no. Before Clonazepam I had been using Ativan as needed, but even a dose as small as 0.25mg would knock me out (which would be good at night, but was very bad during the day).

I've read posts from others on this forum that Strattera seems to help with racing thoughts. I would like to try Strattera as I sadly cannot tolerate traditional stimulants (Adderall, Ritalin); however, doing so would require I come off Prozac, which I don't want to do, as that has worked so well to control both my depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder for almost a decade.

I didn't know benzos can cause dementia in older folks; luckily I'm still 16 years away from 55. :)

As far as sleep meds go I can say for me Ambien worked well after I fell asleep but like Lunesta, it doesn't stop my racing thoughts. I've used a Zeo Sleep Manager to track my sleep since April 2012 and have some of my recent data posted in another thread:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140100 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140100)

I can tell you Ambien drastically increased my REM sleep and allowed me to always wake up relaxed and refreshed, but I had to switch to Lunesta (which doesn't work as well) because I'm one of the estimated 25% of people who get out of bed and do things as if they were completely awake when on Ambien.

As an FYI, Melatonin is short acting (according to my sleep doctor, it's half life is about three hours) which may explain why it didn't work for you. If you're interested in trying Melatonin again, you basically have two options: (1) If you wake up, get up and take another dose if you have at least three hours before you have to get up for the day, or (2) try using controlled release Melatonin. I tried using a product called Melatonin TR Time Release, but found it made me groggy, so I went back to regular Melatonin.

What I had been doing up until recently was dosing Melatonin and waiting for it to make me sleepy then taking Lunesta and going directly to bed as the Melatonin makes me fall asleep and if I'm lucky the Lunesta will keep me asleep; however, after a series of really bad night sleeps lately, my psychologist has insisted the problem isn't with a racing mind but with poor sleep hygiene and I've been asked to wake up at the same time everyday and avoid naps.

Although I've only been working on my sleep hygiene since Thursday, it doesn't seem to be working... probably because of the racing mind.

The last two nights I've even switched from Melatonin and Lunesta to dosing with just Lunesta about two to three hours before going to bed (as that med takes that long to take effect for me). I now literally wait until I'm so out of it my speech is slurred to go to bed and it still takes me a while to fall asleep. :mad:

According to Zeo, the typical male in my age group takes 16 min to fall asleep; despite letting the Lunesta kick-in fully before going to bed, last night it took 48 min for me to fall asleep and the night before it took 30 min. I love my psychologist, but next time I see her in a month I'll be armed with my Zeo data to prove to her this isn't a sleep hygiene issue but rather a racing mind issue.

Blue_E46
02-16-13, 02:34 PM
No lights AND I have to wear a sleep mask and one ear plug (I can't like on my side with an ear plug in my ear, since it starts hurting my ear and I'm a side sleeper. Every time I turn to a different side, I take the ear plug out and put it in the other ear) since I need the room as quiet as possible.
I find that a fan is too noisy. Tried but couldn't get used to it. Plus I'm really paranoid and want to make sure I can still hear if there's a noise outside/ in the house, in case someone tries to break in.
I won't say here what they are, but I keep certain things under my pillow too, just in case I need to defend myself against an intruder.

I almost got kidnapped on the street by two adult men who tried to put me in a truck when I was 5, but fought really hard and escaped in the last second. I sure as hell won't make it that easy for an intruder that's for sure. I hope of course it'll never have to come to that. Ever.

Starry,

There may be a better solution for you than sleeping with just one ear plug. I highly recommend White Noise generating devices and apps. There's a smartphone/tablet app I absolutely love and can't sleep without. Using White Noise at a high enough volume to block out subtle noises, and yet low enough to allow you to hear potential intruders may be a good solution for you.

I'll PM you with the recommended app and a list of other things I use to sleep... I have a message in my "don't forget" pocket notebook so you you hear from me within a few days... Assuming I don't lose the notebook :)

MellyFishButt
02-16-13, 04:02 PM
No lights AND I have to wear a sleep mask and one ear plug (I can't like on my side with an ear plug in my ear, since it starts hurting my ear and I'm a side sleeper. Every time I turn to a different side, I take the ear plug out and put it in the other ear) since I need the room as quiet as possible.
I find that a fan is too noisy. Tried but couldn't get used to it. Plus I'm really paranoid and want to make sure I can still hear if there's a noise outside/ in the house, in case someone tries to break in.
I won't say here what they are, but I keep certain things under my pillow too, just in case I need to defend myself against an intruder.

I almost got kidnapped on the street by two adult men who tried to put me in a truck when I was 5, but fought really hard and escaped in the last second. I sure as hell won't make it that easy for an intruder that's for sure. I hope of course it'll never have to come to that. Ever.

Rip your ear plugs in half and stick the round side in your ear that's usually on the pillow. I am the same way, need total darkness and quiet since I am such a light sleeper. In fact I buy my ear plugs in bulk (my cats steal then to play with!) and immediately cut them all in half so I only have tiny nubs and I never have ear pain. If you have already tried this, I have also found that using a down pillow as my top pillow muffles a lot of ambient noise. With the half earplug I am still able to hear my very quiet iPhone alarm in the morning.

I also use Valium to sleep. I think I only take 2.5mg and it turns off all of my other meds. That combined with my lexapro has given me the best sleep in years! Otherwise I use benedryl type products but they make me infinitely more groggy than the small dose of benzo.

Mr Digital 01
02-16-13, 06:35 PM
I am deaf in one ear- it's like a gift from god! I am probably one of very few people who is not sad about their hearing loss.

Me too Anna, about 70-80% deaf in my left ear. Though I don't feel "it's like a gift from god!" Makes it too hard to hear people in noisy situations.

I have the racing thoughts and listen to a radio - it turns off after 1 hour. It's hard to fall asleep without it..

starry
02-16-13, 10:24 PM
Lots of great advice, thank you all who have commented :)

MellyFishButt:

Yea, I'll try to cut the ear plug in half and see how that works. I hope they don't get lost inside the ear canal though.
Happened to my cousin once and he had to go to ER to get it removed, lol.
Also I get the soft ear plugs with the round edges on the end that doesn't go in the ear. They usually come in pink or orange color. The ones that have a straight cut off end, those are terrible. Hurts my ear really bad and very fast, if I turn to the other side and sleep on it. The other smooth edged ones are pricier but worth the extra money.

My cat plays with my earplugs too if she find them and the dogs will eat them. But I'll usually can get it out of their mouth before they swallow it down, because they like to chew on it for a long while as if it was gum. They're so weird ;) I have remember to put it in its case in the morning, since all of my pets sleep in my bed at night :)

Yea, Benadryl makes me groggy too AND ridiculously thirsty (cotton mouth).




Blue_E46:

Is it an i-phone app called "Study"?
I just downloaded that one and will test it soon. It uses a scientifically proven to work white noise called "Soundscape" or something that drowns out background noise.

I don't know if you can take Xanax during the day. It puts me straight to sleep (depending on which generic you're taking)
I have noticed that the brand name works the fastest and I'm deep asleep after 5 to 10 mins max.
The generic that is closest to the brand name in my opinion is by Greenstone. My sleep quality and efficacy in removing all the racing thoughts is the same with that one and the brand name. It just takes a little longer for me to fall asleep after taking the Greenstone Alpraloxam (anywhere between between 8 to 20 mins). Possibly because the tablets by Greenstone are much harder than the brand Xanax pills, therefore they take longer to dissolve inside the stomach and get into the bloodstream.

Thanks about the tips on Melatonin. I have to save all this info into memory since after 55, I won't be able to take the awesome Xanax…. sigh. I'll have to look for something else.

I'm terrified of ending up getting into weird nightly adventures while asleep - I'll never take Ambien ever again due to that fear. But also since it doesn't work for me.

When you wrote about ''sleep hygiene'' I actually thought it was about taking a shower or bath before going to be bed or something ;) Had never heard of that terminology before.

Speaking of showers and baths before bed, I forgot to mention that going to bed after a warm shower/bath does improve my sleep quality.

Never taken Lunesta…will have to do some research on it.




ana futura:

Yea, not hearing out of one ear would have saved me the trips to CVS and having to buy ear plugs all the time ;)

Mr Digital 01
02-17-13, 05:16 PM
I base my assumption off experience and logic. My body is not hyperactive, but my mind is. I used to take Adderall and after adjusting to it I could actually take naps, sometimes right after dosing; although the Adderall helped me focus my thoughts, it never stopped my mind from racing

I have just ramped up my Dex dose to the target 30mg. After a dose in the daytime, I was really surprised that I fell asleep while watching
a long Barkly video. I wasn't expecting that at all. At that dose my night sleep got horrible, trouble dropping off, waking every 1-2 hours, hard
to get back to sleep and constant weird dreams. I backed off to 25mg. Do you think it's just my body adjusting & that these affects will reduce?

MellyFishButt
02-17-13, 05:23 PM
Lots of great advice, thank you all who have commented :)

MellyFishButt:

Yea, I'll try to cut the ear plug in half and see how that works. I hope they don't get lost inside the ear canal though.
Happened to my cousin once and he had to go to ER to get it removed, lol.
Also I get the soft ear plugs with the round edges on the end that doesn't go in the ear. They usually come in pink or orange color. The ones that have a straight cut off end, those are terrible. Hurts my ear really bad and very fast, if I turn to the other side and sleep on it. The other smooth edged ones are pricier but worth the extra money.

My cat plays with my earplugs too if she find them and the dogs will eat them. But I'll usually can get it out of their mouth before they swallow it down, because they like to chew on it for a long while as if it was gum. They're so weird ;) I have remember to put it in its case in the morning, since all of my pets sleep in my bed at night :)

Yea, Benadryl makes me groggy too AND ridiculously thirsty (cotton mouth).




Blue_E46:

Is it an i-phone app called "Study"?
I just downloaded that one and will test it soon. It uses a scientifically proven to work white noise called "Soundscape" or something that drowns out background noise.

I don't know if you can take Xanax during the day. It puts me straight to sleep (depending on which generic you're taking)
I have noticed that the brand name works the fastest and I'm deep asleep after 5 to 10 mins max.
The generic that is closest to the brand name in my opinion is by Greenstone. My sleep quality and efficacy in removing all the racing thoughts is the same with that one and the brand name. It just takes a little longer for me to fall asleep after taking the Greenstone Alpraloxam (anywhere between between 8 to 20 mins). Possibly because the tablets by Greenstone are much harder than the brand Xanax pills, therefore they take longer to dissolve inside the stomach and get into the bloodstream.

Thanks about the tips on Melatonin. I have to save all this info into memory since after 55, I won't be able to take the awesome Xanax…. sigh. I'll have to look for something else.

I'm terrified of ending up getting into weird nightly adventures while asleep - I'll never take Ambien ever again due to that fear. But also since it doesn't work for me.

When you wrote about ''sleep hygiene'' I actually thought it was about taking a shower or bath before going to be bed or something ;) Had never heard of that terminology before.

Speaking of showers and baths before bed, I forgot to mention that going to bed after a warm shower/bath does improve my sleep quality.

Never taken Lunesta…will have to do some research on it.




ana futura:

Yea, not hearing out of one ear would have saved me the trips to CVS and having to buy ear plugs all the time ;)

I thought if you this morning. I woke up to ear pain. lol But I think it was because I didn't shift in my sleep very much and my actual outer ear fell asleep. Not a good way to wake up. Anywho, thought you'd laugh about that. :)

Blue_E46
02-19-13, 06:35 PM
Blue_E46:

Is it an i-phone app called "Study"?
I just downloaded that one and will test it soon. It uses a scientifically proven to work white noise called "Soundscape" or something that drowns out background noise.

I don't know if you can take Xanax during the day. It puts me straight to sleep (depending on which generic you're taking)
I have noticed that the brand name works the fastest and I'm deep asleep after 5 to 10 mins max.
The generic that is closest to the brand name in my opinion is by Greenstone. My sleep quality and efficacy in removing all the racing thoughts is the same with that one and the brand name. It just takes a little longer for me to fall asleep after taking the Greenstone Alpraloxam (anywhere between between 8 to 20 mins). Possibly because the tablets by Greenstone are much harder than the brand Xanax pills, therefore they take longer to dissolve inside the stomach and get into the bloodstream.

Thanks about the tips on Melatonin. I have to save all this info into memory since after 55, I won't be able to take the awesome Xanax…. sigh. I'll have to look for something else.

I'm terrified of ending up getting into weird nightly adventures while asleep - I'll never take Ambien ever again due to that fear. But also since it doesn't work for me.

When you wrote about ''sleep hygiene'' I actually thought it was about taking a shower or bath before going to be bed or something ;) Had never heard of that terminology before.

Speaking of showers and baths before bed, I forgot to mention that going to bed after a warm shower/bath does improve my sleep quality.

Never taken Lunesta…will have to do some research on it.




The app I was talking about is called White Noise and is available for both Apple and Android devices. I will send you a PM shortly with some links to products I use or want :)

Blue_E46
02-19-13, 06:43 PM
I have just ramped up my Dex dose to the target 30mg. After a dose in the daytime, I was really surprised that I fell asleep while watching
a long Barkly video. I wasn't expecting that at all. At that dose my night sleep got horrible, trouble dropping off, waking every 1-2 hours, hard
to get back to sleep and constant weird dreams. I backed off to 25mg. Do you think it's just my body adjusting & that these affects will reduce?

Sorry, I don't have an answer for this one :confused:

I would talk to the doctor that prescribed the med. I have "special circumstances"; Adderall worked at 5mg for me when for most others a therapeutic dose is 10mg to 60 mg.

Even on Strattera, which I started today at 10mg, I'm beginning to feel the effects way below the therapeutic dose. It's only been eight hours since I dosed and my ability to focus and typing speed have already increased.

Hopefully Strattera will stop the racing thoughts and not cause non-permanent short-term memory loss for me as Adderall did.

starry
02-20-13, 12:04 AM
I thought if you this morning. I woke up to ear pain. lol But I think it was because I didn't shift in my sleep very much and my actual outer ear fell asleep. Not a good way to wake up. Anywho, thought you'd laugh about that. :)

LOL!! I know how annoying that is....being woken up from a precious deep sleep by ear ache from an ear plug that we "put in there to help us sleep"!

Why do they have to make ear plugs "one size fits all?"

That "one size fits all" sizing never works with anything really- let alone with ear plugs :eyebrow: ;)