View Full Version : Shared Genes May Link ADHD, Autism, Depression, Bipolar & Schizo


Lunacie
02-28-13, 08:36 AM
I've been saying this for years now, since discovering all these connections
within my own family. But this is the first time I've seen any mention of the
regulation of calcium in the brain.


Autism, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), major depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia may all share common genetic risk factors, a new study says.

To look for common genetic markers, called nucleotide polymorphisms, that might be risk factors for the five disorders, the Psychiatric Genomics Consortium scanned the genes of more than 33,000 people suffering from these disorders and nearly 28,000 people without such issues. This is the largest study of the genetics of psychiatric illness yet conducted, the researchers said.

Smoller's group found four gene areas that all overlapped with the five disorders, two of which regulate calcium balance in the brain.


http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/adhd/shared-genes-may-link-adhd-autism-and-depression (http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/adhd/shared-genes-may-link-adhd-autism-and-depression)

SB_UK
02-28-13, 08:42 AM
Calcium homeostasis looks like it's critical in human functioning.

Such small amounts of this divalent ion in the cells - exerting so great an effect.

Who'd have deb'unk' it ?

wikiP/cytosol

<table class="wikitable" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><caption>Typical ion concentrations in mammalian cytosol and blood.</caption> <tbody><tr> <th>Ion</th> <th> Concentration in cytosol (millimolar) </th> <th> Concentration in blood (millimolar) </th> </tr> <tr> <td> Potassium </td> <td align="center"> 139 </td> <td align="center"> 4 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Sodium </td> <td align="center"> 12 </td> <td align="center"> 145 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Chloride </td> <td align="center"> 4 </td> <td align="center"> 116 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Bicarbonate </td> <td align="center"> 12 </td> <td align="center"> 29 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Amino acids in proteins </td> <td align="center"> 138 </td> <td align="center"> 9 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Magnesium </td> <td align="center"> 0.8 </td> <td align="center"> 1.5 </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Calcium </td> <td align="center"> <0.0002 </td> <td align="center"> 1.8 </td></tr></tbody></table>

It's the place one might look least.

daveddd
02-28-13, 08:43 AM
thank you for posting this

im hoping this will eventually result in less worrying about categories, and put more focus on treatment

SB_UK
02-28-13, 08:52 AM
thank you for posting this

im hoping this will eventually result in less worrying about categories, and put more focus on treatment

Perhaps we're looking at inadequate time in the sun alongside massively elevated calcium intake through this world's affinity for dairy products ?


Healthiest place on the planet (by epidemiology) does not consume dairy from any animal.

Amtram
02-28-13, 09:06 AM
I don't think that what they found is a causative relationship between calcium channels in the brain and these conditions. It's just that two of the genes they found also are associated with calcium channels. To wit:

To look for common genetic markers, called nucleotide polymorphisms, that might be risk factors for the five disorders, the Psychiatric Genomics Consortium scanned the genes of more than 33,000 people suffering from these disorders and nearly 28,000 people without such issues. This is the largest study of the genetics of psychiatric illness yet conducted, the researchers said.

Smoller's group found four gene areas that all overlapped with the five disorders, two of which regulate calcium balance in the brain.


These overlapping gene variants appear to increase the risk for bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder and schizophrenia in adults, the researchers said.

Further analysis found that genes governing calcium channel activity in the brain might also be important in the development of all five disorders, autism and ADHD included.

Smoller noted these genetic risk factors may only account for a very small part of the risk driving these disorders, and just how big a share they account for isn't yet known.


The number of genes that do only one thing represent a tiny minority of the DNA. In fact, a "gene" is a piece of code that varies in length, and segments of one gene can also be segments of another. As well, many genes do different things depending on what other genes are present, as they work together to build the body and set up its functional interactions.



So the calcium channel connection is not likely to be looked at for causation, but as a potential sign for the presence of these conditions, or a developmental process that's affected by these conditions, or a connection between these conditions and something else entirely. We don't have the study yet (and won't, unless we subscribe to The Lancet or buy the article) so we don't know whether this is something significant or just a "hey, look at what else we found!" thing.

daveddd
02-28-13, 09:21 AM
yea, dont quote me

but i think ive seen the same connections with protein channels

Abi
02-28-13, 09:24 AM
Perhaps we're looking at inadequate time in the sun alongside massively elevated calcium intake through this world's affinity for dairy products ?


Healthiest place on the planet (by epidemiology) does not consume dairy from any animal.

I chainsmoke so that depletes the calcium I get from all the cheese and ice cream I eat.

So I should be fine.

Still bipolar though.... hmmm... maybe I should smoke more...

Abi
02-28-13, 09:26 AM
As my Avatar may suggest, I am sensitive to sunlight..... :)

TygerSan
02-28-13, 10:27 AM
Variations in the genetic code for specific calcium channels have been found among those with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia-- the differences in coding do change the function and dynamics of the channel-- so while I would always caution against assuming a causative relationship, there is some evidence that it might exist.

And, yep, it's really impressive how such a small molecule can exert huge effects. Tetrodotoxin (the stuff that makes fugu/puffer fish deadly to eat if not prepared properly) kills by inactivating sodium ion channels. . . not a huge component of the cytosol of a cell, but OMG important! Without sodium, there are no action potentials in neurons, which means there is no muscle movement (i.e. it paralyzes you).

mildadhd
02-28-13, 12:15 PM
Smoller noted these genetic risk factors may only account for a very small part of the risk driving these disorders, and just how big a share they account for isn't yet known.

So, looking for these genes in an individual now would not be considered a diagnostic tool. "They are not enough to predict any individual's risk. And you might carry all of these variants and never develop a psychiatric disorder," Smoller said.

Not all people who carry these genes develop psychiatric disorders.

What environmental factors along with these genes would result in a actual psychiatric disorder?

Amtram
02-28-13, 03:14 PM
In this study, everyone who had the genes had the disorders, and nobody who didn't have the genes had any of the disorders. That's why this is such a big deal.

Lunacie
02-28-13, 03:25 PM
Not all people who carry these genes develop psychiatric disorders.

What environmental factors along with these genes would result in a actual psychiatric disorder?

In this study, everyone who had the genes had the disorders, and nobody who didn't have the genes had any of the disorders. That's why this is such a big deal.

Yeah, I know that those of us with ADHD are notorious for being impatient,
but this information comes one step at a time. Finding the switch is the
first step, figuring out how to turn it on or off comes afterwards.

And as some have pointed out, there isn't just one switch working here.
They have to figure out how many switches are involved in each different
disorder during that first step.

mildadhd
02-28-13, 04:16 PM
In this study, everyone who had the genes had the disorders, and nobody who didn't have the genes had any of the disorders. That's why this is such a big deal.

Why do some people have the genes, but not the disorder?

mildadhd
02-28-13, 04:18 PM
Yeah, I know that those of us with ADHD are notorious for being impatient,
but this information comes one step at a time. Finding the switch is the
first step, figuring out how to turn it on or off comes afterwards.

And as some have pointed out, there isn't just one switch working here.
They have to figure out how many switches are involved in each different
disorder during that first step.

How do you know the genes are the switches, unless you switch the switch?

How the switch, switches, is very important to the discussion.

Amtram
02-28-13, 04:20 PM
Why do some people have the genes, but not the disorder?

They don't. That's what the study findings said.

mildadhd
02-28-13, 04:34 PM
They don't. That's what the study findings said.

Quotes below from the OP link.

"They are not enough to predict any individual's risk. And you might carry all of these variants and never develop a psychiatric disorder," Smoller said.


I do think the OP link information is valuable when considering the similar neurological pathways of these conditions.

Lunacie
02-28-13, 05:02 PM
Okay, rather than calling this a step in the right direction, I'll call it a piece
of the mental health disorder puzzle. The more pieces the scientists have,
the more likely they can predict, diagnose, treat and . . . maybe in the
future . . . prevent.

This looks like a significant piece of the puzzle, probably not a corner
piece, but maybe one of the edges that will lead to showing them what the
finished picture looks like . . . in the future.

At this point, they're still trying to find more pieces, and I'm glad they've
found this one. :) It fits what I think the puzzle is going to look like, but
I can only imagine what it will look like. That's all anyone can do.

SB_UK
03-01-13, 12:27 PM
As ever - do we want to categorise the damage to the bodywork of cars ... or ... prevent accidents from happening in the first place ?
One of the oldest motifs in science.

Maybe it's not possible - but it should be, by far and away the centre of focus - with documentation of breakage (classification schemes), a far distant second.

Sadly - there isn't any real motivation for *anybody* in this world to aim towards preventative schemes ... ... for preventative schemes implies one's own unemployment.

As once mentioned by a leading pharmaceutical scientist to a researcher into asthma - 'but why should we care about preventing the disease we've a drug for ? - We want a way of making everybody and their dog asthmatic - so they need to buy our medicine'.

Amtram
03-01-13, 01:07 PM
However, if it's something that's actually genetic, the only thing that would prevent it would be to prevent people with the genes from being born.

So discovering the genes could have that (possibly) negative outcome.

However, discovering the genes for something that is actually genetic can also have the outcome of better treatment - because if it is genetic, then there is no prevention. If there's no prevention, then better treatment is a good thing.

Fuzzy12
03-01-13, 01:11 PM
So does this link mean that you could develop the other disorders as well? I don't mean ADHD or autism, with which you are born, I think, but having bipolar disorder is there a possibility of developing schizophrenia? *gulp* :umm1:

crystal8080
03-01-13, 01:15 PM
So does this link mean that you could develop the other disorders as well? I don't mean ADHD or autism, with which you are born, I think, but having bipolar disorder is there a possibility of developing schizophrenia? *gulp* :umm1:

Six of one, half a dozen of the other Fuzzy. I'm not sure you would "develop" schizophrenia, you would be rediagnosed with schizoaffective disorder.

Fuzzy12
03-01-13, 01:18 PM
Six of one, half a dozen of the other Fuzzy. I'm not sure you would "develop" schizophrenia, you would be rediagnosed with schizoaffective disorder.

Huh?? What's with all the Fuzzies?? Isn't one more than enough? :o Though maybe I could the other Fuzzies to do all my work. Well, if they are all like me, we'd probably just distract each other, rant to each other about how **** life is and how much we don't like our brains and do absolutely nothing productive. :D

I mean, is it possible that I might still develop schizoaffective symptoms? Or would they have shown by now? :scratch:

crystal8080
03-01-13, 01:21 PM
As once mentioned by a leading pharmaceutical scientist to a researcher into asthma - 'but why should we care about preventing the disease we've a drug for ? - We want a way of making everybody and their dog asthmatic - so they need to buy our medicine'.

Very very true. My 85 year old grandmother-in-law even says the same thing. Pharmaceutical companies have no desire to create cures. And her husband was a drug rep. When she was younger she had asthma and took ephedra for it....even she says she was high all the time. A doctor found a cure, and cured her and the cure died with him.

Knowing this I wonder about research. Do researchers really want to know the root of disease? Or do they only want to find the root to provide treatment?

Fuzzy12
03-01-13, 01:31 PM
Very very true. My 85 year old grandmother-in-law even says the same thing. Pharmaceutical companies have no desire to create cures. And her husband was a drug rep. When she was younger she had asthma and took ephedra for it....even she says she was high all the time. A doctor found a cure, and cured her and the cure died with him.

Knowing this I wonder about research. Do researchers really want to know the root of disease? Or do they only want to find the root to provide treatment?

As a researcher, I do think that most researchers would want to find the root of disease, at least for their own curiosity if nothing else. But people research different topics. The people researching the root of diseases are not the same people who are researching treatment so they are looking for different things. They are answering different questions. There's lots of overlap of course and the root of disease affects treatment but the main research question might be different.

And then it depends on the philosophy or individual researchers or their research groups as well. Some believe that treatment, practical solutions to a problem is more important than getting rid of the problem.

The NHS (national health service in the UK) doesn't recommend treatment usually unless it's warranted. For most problems, except emergency ones, they recommend just continuing with your life until your problem starts seriously affecting it and disabling you.

I don't think that all pharmaceutical researchers are just interested in finding new drugs to make money for their company. It's very difficult to conduct research that you aren't personally interested in. It's possible of course but then hopefully the government has put in enough tests before approving a drug to make sure that every drug out there has a purpose.

Lunacie
03-01-13, 01:43 PM
Fuzzy . . .:goodpost:

Amtram
03-01-13, 05:11 PM
There are some things that can't be cured or prevented. Maybe sometime long after all of us are gone, that will be possible, but in the here and now there are people who need treatments. It's not a very appealing idea, to me, to do no research into treatment, or provide no treatments that help, because you don't want to release anything for use until you've nailed down everything there is to know about the origin of a condition.

Lunacie
03-01-13, 06:24 PM
Very very true. My 85 year old grandmother-in-law even says the same thing. Pharmaceutical companies have no desire to create cures. And her husband was a drug rep. When she was younger she had asthma and took ephedra for it....even she says she was high all the time. A doctor found a cure, and cured her and the cure died with him.

Knowing this I wonder about research. Do researchers really want to know the root of disease? Or do they only want to find the root to provide treatment?

Seriously?

Researchers have developed vaccines that have practically eliminated
deadly diseases like measles, mumps, smallpox, polio, rubella, diptheria,
cholera and tyhpoid.

Who manufactures those vaccines?

Researchers are developing vaccines to eliminate tuberculosis, meningitis,
and the human papalomavirus.

And who will also manufacture those vaccines?

It doesn't look like mental health disorders are causes by viruses and
cannot be cured by vaccines. That doesn't mean research isn't being done
to discover the root cause and prevent them or develop better treatments.

Yes, that's right, the same pharmaceutical companies are manufacturing
those treatments for mental health disorders. Shame on them! :doh:

crystal8080
03-01-13, 10:04 PM
I didn't mean to paint them all with the same brush. At risk of sounding like a crackpot I don't think the playing field is level when it comes to interest in finding a cure and finding a treatment when it comes to companies who make millions if not billions of dollars. Sorry. Just my opinion.

Vaccines do save lives. But lets think about those diseases. They killed people, caused deformities and were a threat to the population. Makes a lot of sense to find a cure. Is asthma contagious? Yes, I know, finding a cure for those diseases doesn't make them money either. And finding a cure for all diseases would be a benefit to the population.

Nobody ever said my opinion doesn't have holes, feel free to poke lol. I don't mind. I guess I need to take my turn!

Amtram
03-02-13, 11:47 AM
Think about this, though, crystal8080. . .

Which would make more money - polio vaccines, or an ongoing need for iron lungs, leg braces, custom crutches and wheelchairs?

Which would make more money - measles vaccines, or cochlear implants or (coming soon!!!) bionic eyes, or ongoing treatment for encephalitis or subacute sclerosing panencephalitis?

Which would make more money - Rubella vaccines, or treatment for months of hemorrhagia or years of arthritis?

Even if any of these went epidemic or pandemic, and caused large numbers of deaths, the need for ongoing treatment among the survivors would make up for the loss of income from the deceased. The only vaccines that would make sense would be for diptheria, pertussis, and tetanus, which tend to kill but leave fewer long-term complications for most survivors.

I don't have on rose-colored glasses as far as the profit motives for any industry go. I would just rather save my ire for issues that are more worth it - and those, you're not going to hear about in the news.

kattsqueen
03-07-13, 09:46 PM
I have been a member here at add forums for about five years now.. while searching for natural treatments for add since I had severe hypertension I came across information in the forum about potassium being usefull for the treatment of attention deficit disorders.. a few articles later and I was changing my diet to low salt, low carbs, good proteins and fats. Not only was I dealing with add,, also chronic fatigue chronic pain issues, sensory overload issues and some odd things like slow gastric emptying chronic constipation muscle fasciculations so on and so forth.. two days later following paleolithic diet while adding 2000mgs of potassium a day and on the third morning for the first time in 20 years I woke up pain free clear headed and rested.. yes I swallowed over 20 of the otc potassium tabs a day,, I am now hoping to send my blood to Dr Frank Lehman Horne at the university of Ulm who is still looking for the specific genetic mutation causing what he refers to as Andersen tawil syndrome hypokpp+ a type of hypokalemic periodic paralysis also associated with lidocaine resistance.. within my extended family are many with diabetes migraines the autism spectrum bi polar and schizophrenia.. I am hoping my family will be able to help find the mutations they are looking at.. potassium calcium and sodium channels are the current targets for research.. malignant hyperthermia is also present in my family so the calcium channel genes and ryr are targets also for my family.. wouldn't you like to know if a change in diet could greatly improve your quality of life. It sure has changed my life..this is very important research,, Baylor university is also doing this research looking for that unknown mutation that just may answer a lot of questions and improve the quality of life for many. I am in the process of collecting medical records for five family members and hope to be shipping soon.. we have been accepted into the research project.. katts

Lunacie
03-08-13, 11:55 AM
I have been a member here at add forums for about five years now..

while searching for natural treatments for add since I had severe hypertension I came across information in the forum about potassium being usefull for the treatment of attention deficit disorders..

a few articles later and I was changing my diet to low salt, low carbs, good proteins and fats. Not only was I dealing with add,, also chronic fatigue chronic pain issues, sensory overload issues and some odd things like slow gastric emptying chronic constipation muscle fasciculations so on and so forth..

two days later following paleolithic diet while adding 2000mgs of potassium a day and on the third morning for the first time in 20 years I woke up pain free clear headed and rested..

yes I swallowed over 20 of the otc potassium tabs a day,, I am now hoping to send my blood to Dr Frank Lehman Horne at the university of Ulm who is still looking for the specific genetic mutation causing what he refers to as Andersen tawil syndrome hypokpp+ a type of hypokalemic periodic paralysis also associated with lidocaine resistance..

within my extended family are many with diabetes migraines the autism spectrum bi polar and schizophrenia..

I am hoping my family will be able to help find the mutations they are looking at.. potassium calcium and sodium channels are the current targets for research..

malignant hyperthermia is also present in my family so the calcium channel genes and ryr are targets also for my family..

wouldn't you like to know if a change in diet could greatly improve your quality of life. It sure has changed my life..

this is very important research,, Baylor university is also doing this research looking for that unknown mutation that just may answer a lot of questions and improve the quality of life for many. I am in the process of collecting medical records for five family members and hope to be shipping soon..

we have been accepted into the research project.. katts

I am thankful to everyone who contributes to ongoing research. We have
just begun a research project on Autism treatment with my granddaughter.


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