View Full Version : I'm not learning anymore social rules


fracturedstory
03-21-13, 06:04 AM
Yes, this is the right place to post this. It's about autism and how I'm always getting into arguments with people over fairly innocuous things (in my mind) and then getting frustrated because there's some hidden social rule everyone but me knows.

It is also a rant.

The more I hear about social customs the more I feel I have to change into someone that goes against who I am. I'm an honest person. I try to be polite. I try to avoid confrontations. I'm usually so overcome with emotions I'm too paralyzed to argue anyway. I always do things for people. I give them gifts and if I don't know what to get them I paint them a picture. I try my best not to hurt them.

I've learnt a lot about empathy and have discovered some social rules, and try to apply them.

But then they are social customs that just feel so fake to me. We're nice and we over praise people because it is expected of us, not because it's how we truly feel. I struggle to praise a five year old. I don't even think to do it with adults. We hide our hurt and act like everything is ok. Very few of us even want to help people when they are going through a hard time. We only want to be around people when they are happy. Our friendships are superficial.

I want honesty, some god damned empathy from people who didn't have to learn it from a book, and I want people to stop making fun of me for behaviour I can't control. I don't want to be to told to let it go or we all experience that. The f**k you do! You made it through school fine. You know how to talk to people without making them awkward or p***ed off. You work, have relationships. You don't know what depersonalisation feels like or constant intense sensory sensitivity. You can't even comprehend what fear of change means. You've never had a meltdown.

You won't make a liar out of me. I know enough social skills to get by. No more. If I offend you then I offend you. I didn't mean to. I never mean to. You don't know what it's like when you realise you've said the wrong thing again. It doesn't just happen sometimes. It's always. I just have to ignore it and try again. More training. Kill another bit of my personality.

And it's just so I don't make you feel uncomfortable or make fun of me. So I don't get embarrassed.

No more I say. I can't do it anymore.

Note: most of this is directed at very specific NT's in my life.

Also, I expect some people to think this is about them, because that's what they do. But it's not.

someothertime
03-21-13, 06:48 AM
Amen fractured......well said!,

There are times when I'm in a really lame/enlightened mood and I rise above "norms", seems to be great for everyone ( at least it's an improvement from my "reactive" manner .... i'm not at the stage where I can be truthful / honest to myself in interactions ) ....... but these times are rare....

fracturedstory
03-21-13, 11:31 PM
I was going to post this on Facebook but the edited version got way too emo, so I slept on it and I'm still not sure if I want to post it.

I'm just going on a break from social skills learning. It really makes me feel like an idiot when someone reveals another social custom to me and expects me to just know it. The next time it happens I'm just going to file it away and come back to it 6 months later.

For a very long time I've been having issues with friends (they've just been silent -it feels like I don't have friends at all unless we actually hang out) and trying to understand how NTs see things, and had my share of people who think I'm making it all up.

People are not my favourite people right now.

deadmau5
03-22-13, 12:34 AM
Ive never read a post with as much raw emotion as your original in this thread. Its incredible how venting your unfiltered thoughts and emotions can really captivate someone. Im glad you shared this! I hope your frustration subsides so you can be at peace.

fracturedstory
03-23-13, 06:13 AM
Thanks. Yeah, I've calmed down since. I still feel that way though, but it's not as at the surface of my thoughts as it once was. I don't feel the same emotions reading over it as I did before.

Raw emotion, huh? I wonder if it's why posts like these always get me negative comments or silence, or downright denial. It's weird. I get told I make things up, but there's no real point to make this stuff up. People are so confusing.

someothertime
03-23-13, 06:46 AM
That's my mum's attitude......

"All my problems are of my own making"

Abstractly that is kind of true......all the issues I experience are because of the way my brain is wired...... but what good does telling someone to "move on" do? how does stopping communicating with them help them?

Half the time I wish I lived in the 40's or in some remote village where families are tight and issues are addressed. This modern world is so me, me, me....... starts half the problems and stops half the problems getting fixed!!!

fracturedstory
03-24-13, 07:22 AM
That's what I think when I'm on social networking sites...me me me. No one ever sees how selfish they are.

SquarePeg
03-24-13, 08:32 AM
I donīt know if this answer is helpful because I donīt know about autism but I do know about being angry, confrontational, being different, weird and not fitting in and trying to change.

The biggest thing that helped me was psychotherapy. To cut a long story short one of the things it did was help me uncover all my hidden feelings, the ones that were below the anger.

The anger was the at the top of the pile and was a standard response to most situations.
Apart from that I then learned to accept that I am the way I am and I stopped wanting to fit in so much.

I will never be a person with a big social circle and I know some people only made an effort to get to know me because other friends of mine have said that once people get to know me I am different to what comes across.

What I am, is more honest with people about who I am. So they know I will forget their birthdays, not buy them a present and sometimes a really crap friend but they know that despite this I care about them.

I have explained that I blurt out the wrong things and upset people so they know when to ignore me.

I still often feel the outsider in the group and my friends know this and do try to make me feel different but the main thing is that i donīt pretend (will I do a bit).

I laugh at my weirdness and my friends feel more comfortable with this and then start telling me things I have said and done, which I had previously thought were quite normal.

This has been quite good for me because I can now understand why some people take me the wrong way. I can think a little more before speaking and sometimes I wonīt speak but mostly I still blurt out random rubbish.

I donīt feel the need to be confrontational anymore, I stay away from people that irritate me. I donīt know how I feel about stuff really, so I keep quite. I will get all annoyed about something thinking that itīs my belief and then a few days later I wonīt give a sh*t about it, or someone has said something else and I find that I agree.

I can say the empathy things, but donīt really feel it much. but I canīt do the empathy stuff. Like I have friends that rally round and do things for people when they are down.

I suppose I say this is me (but I make an effort to explain the real me and the difficulties I have) and I accept who I am and I suppose other people do as well.

Lunacie
03-24-13, 08:53 AM
That's my mum's attitude......

"All my problems are of my own making"

Abstractly that is kind of true......all the issues I experience are because of the way my brain is wired...... but what good does telling someone to "move on" do? how does stopping communicating with them help them?

Half the time I wish I lived in the 40's or in some remote village where families are tight and issues are addressed. This modern world is so me, me, me....... starts half the problems and stops half the problems getting fixed!!!

You mean like in tv shows like Ozzie and Harriet?
Sorry, but they aren't real.

I lived in a small town in the middle of Kansas when I was a kid, in the 50s
and 60s, and issues were NOT addressed. My parents were more worried
about what the neighbors might think than about what we were feeling.

They certainly didn't want anyone to know that my older brother had been
sexually abusing me. I was told to block my bedroom door and wear a
girdle to bed and then I never heard another word about it.

It no wonder I had a hard time sharing my feelings with my husband. What
he saw the most was the hidden anger that erupted every so often.



(((fracturedstory))) I haven't been diagnosed with Autism, and don't expect
that to happen at this point in my life, but I don't doubt that I'm at the very
least borderline-autistic. I can relate to so much of what you write here,
and at other times.

So I try to be sensitive to my g-daughter who has been diagnosed with
autism, and give her space when she needs it. And I do my best not to
make her feel guilty when her lack of social skills hurts my feelings. Thanks
for reminding me to keep trying.

SquarePeg
03-24-13, 08:58 AM
[quote=
So I try to be sensitive to my g-daughter who has been diagnosed with
autism, and give her space when she needs it. And I do my best not to
make her feel guilty when her lack of social skills hurts my feelings. Thanks
for reminding me to keep trying.[/quote]

I no longer feel hurt when my daughter makes insensitive comments, which she does quite a lot.

Occasionally I have had moments when I feel so unappreciated as a mum and think my kids donīt care about me and my daughter gets so upset to think I feel like this and then gets angry and cries.

I think I can be equally hurtful to them just because I blurt out stuff but am only teasing but I forget how sensitive the young ones are.

eats_mice
03-24-13, 03:59 PM
Screw social rules and norms! Why do people have to say "excuse me" after they burp? It's a natural function of your body! You shouldn't have to be excused for it...

Just remember, you are unique, just like everybody else...

deadmau5
03-24-13, 05:08 PM
Thanks. Yeah, I've calmed down since. I still feel that way though, but it's not as at the surface of my thoughts as it once was. I don't feel the same emotions reading over it as I did before.

Raw emotion, huh? I wonder if it's why posts like these always get me negative comments or silence, or downright denial. It's weird. I get told I make things up, but there's no real point to make this stuff up. People are so confusing.

Yes raw emotion! I wrote my original post cause I was impressed with how well you could express how you were feeling in your writing, your frustration with people was clearly described and I really connected with it. Most writing I read is vacant or weak in the emotion department in turn making it a bore to read. Didnt you mention you were writing some sort of literature in one of your previous posts? Tell the people who write negative comments or deny what you're you're saying to **** off, they are just haters and not worth your time. Anyways Im glad you're still around the forums, I appreciate your posts and insight.

fracturedstory
03-25-13, 06:47 AM
I donīt know if this answer is helpful because I donīt know about autism but I do know about being angry, confrontational, being different, weird and not fitting in and trying to change.

The biggest thing that helped me was psychotherapy. To cut a long story short one of the things it did was help me uncover all my hidden feelings, the ones that were below the anger.

The anger was the at the top of the pile and was a standard response to most situations.
Apart from that I then learned to accept that I am the way I am and I stopped wanting to fit in so much.

I will never be a person with a big social circle and I know some people only made an effort to get to know me because other friends of mine have said that once people get to know me I am different to what comes across.

What I am, is more honest with people about who I am. So they know I will forget their birthdays, not buy them a present and sometimes a really crap friend but they know that despite this I care about them.

I have explained that I blurt out the wrong things and upset people so they know when to ignore me.

I still often feel the outsider in the group and my friends know this and do try to make me feel different but the main thing is that i donīt pretend (will I do a bit).

I laugh at my weirdness and my friends feel more comfortable with this and then start telling me things I have said and done, which I had previously thought were quite normal.

This has been quite good for me because I can now understand why some people take me the wrong way. I can think a little more before speaking and sometimes I wonīt speak but mostly I still blurt out random rubbish.

I donīt feel the need to be confrontational anymore, I stay away from people that irritate me. I donīt know how I feel about stuff really, so I keep quite. I will get all annoyed about something thinking that itīs my belief and then a few days later I wonīt give a sh*t about it, or someone has said something else and I find that I agree.

I can say the empathy things, but donīt really feel it much. but I canīt do the empathy stuff. Like I have friends that rally round and do things for people when they are down.

I suppose I say this is me (but I make an effort to explain the real me and the difficulties I have) and I accept who I am and I suppose other people do as well.

What you need to know about me is I like who I am, maybe a bit too much. The anger is from having people think this is weird and want to hush it up. Although I have two friends who aren't like that and my sister (whom I live with) could care less. I would never change for other people. I am my interests and strong opinions. Some people say I have a big heart and a lot of peacefulness to me, or something like that. I think I appear down to Earth. I don't gossip or even bother with social drama. I don't put a whole lot of focus on people except to solve their problems or when I try to work out the meaning behind their words.

I get angry when I have social customs pointed out to me because I did once try so hard to learn them and apply them. I don't like appearing rude. I have said some pretty insensitive things as a youngster and though I didn't know I really like being a respectful and empathetic person. I had to learn empathy through other people and not intuitively.
I know most of the reasons for my stress because there was a time when it was just angry emotions without a meaning to it. I had to go through everything that had happened or was happening to realise it always had to do with change. I do a lot of introspection I guess it's called. I call it brainstorming. I often brainstorm through my emotions, my confusions and other thoughts that don't make sense. And I write them down. By the end I may have more understanding about the issue.

I prefer to work things out on my own as I believe I understand more about myself than a therapist.

It's quite funny, someone wrote a song about me. Well I think he did. It couldn't be about anyone else. My issues are so unusual to other people and the words just fit. It was one of those things that I was just confused by so I asked people with AS and it turned out to be something that made the NT vs autistic experience very different. I'm being vague because I still don't know if the song is about me and don't want the singer to think I do.
That's on my mind a lot. I've been trying to feel the same way an NT would be about something upsetting but then can just put it to the back of their mind. I know people with ADHD have an emotional regulation problem and I think that's why I can't just let some things go, particularly sensory overload and seizures.

I don't actually obsess over social skills like some people with autism. I have no anxiety about talking to people. ADHD meds make me talk more and off them I'm just impulsive. Off them I also won't talk to people I barely know. It's like I just don't care. I can struggle to talk to people I know well but only in a muddled ADHD speech/thoughts sense.

Now I care even less. I think I've jumped on this autistic acceptance bandwagon and I'd rather celebrate it than suppress it. I know that won't always work out for the best because people just won't understand. Why would anyone want to be autistic? I don't want to be, I am. It's very hard getting through a day and then you have to constantly monitor yourself socially.

However, when it comes to meeting band members I'll put some of that social training in practice. It's just one night. Another thing I need to do is not beat myself up when I get drunk and do stupid things. No one else does it and I never used to. It's just I like to be control of my actions. I'm an impulsive person so I don't know why I even think I have the remotest bit of control over my mind. Perhaps the meds have given me a degree of control. Being drunk and impulsive feels like I could take it a step further. It's almost like mania. But I drink very little these days. I've got a job to do at those gigs.

Have I said everything? I like being me and more people should like me as well. It couldn't hurt for my friends to talk to me more often. But when my friend was feeling depressed she must have finally caught on that I was going through that too and contacted me.

fracturedstory
03-25-13, 06:55 AM
Yes raw emotion! I wrote my original post cause I was impressed with how well you could express how you were feeling in your writing, your frustration with people was clearly described and I really connected with it. Most writing I read is vacant or weak in the emotion department in turn making it a bore to read. Didnt you mention you were writing some sort of literature in one of your previous posts? Tell the people who write negative comments or deny what you're you're saying to **** off, they are just haters and not worth your time. Anyways Im glad you're still around the forums, I appreciate your posts and insight.

I'm trying to write a sci-fi trilogy. I read a lot of Orson Scott Card who really does explore the relationship of people, mostly the screamy arguing stuff. He's taught me a lot about people's emotions. Some parts are full on over emotional and maybe that rubs off on me.

I'm a fan of Battlestar Galactica too and that show has some over the top emotions. I'm basically learning about people from shows like this. By the time I got up to Caprica I thought 'surely people don't get THIS emotional in real life?' I'm still not sure.

It could also be the fact that for a few weeks now my emotional control has been virtually non-existent. Damn hormone imbalance. But maybe from a literary perspective it could be a good thing. I always write around this time, though my meds aren't as effective and I can't write a complex sci-fi chapter. I might have a peak of intense hyperfocus but I only get one day.

fracturedstory
03-25-13, 07:18 AM
You mean like in tv shows like Ozzie and Harriet?
Sorry, but they aren't real.

I lived in a small town in the middle of Kansas when I was a kid, in the 50s
and 60s, and issues were NOT addressed. My parents were more worried
about what the neighbors might think than about what we were feeling.

They certainly didn't want anyone to know that my older brother had been
sexually abusing me. I was told to block my bedroom door and wear a
girdle to bed and then I never heard another word about it.

It no wonder I had a hard time sharing my feelings with my husband. What
he saw the most was the hidden anger that erupted every so often.



(((fracturedstory))) I haven't been diagnosed with Autism, and don't expect
that to happen at this point in my life, but I don't doubt that I'm at the very
least borderline-autistic. I can relate to so much of what you write here,
and at other times.

So I try to be sensitive to my g-daughter who has been diagnosed with
autism, and give her space when she needs it. And I do my best not to
make her feel guilty when her lack of social skills hurts my feelings. Thanks
for reminding me to keep trying.
I figured it would be worse for people with neurological disorders or going through abuse back then. Families only looked happy on the surface.

I'm glad I can be diagnosed at all and on medication that helps me. I'm glad that self advocacy is so effective too and parents have taken their autistic children out of institutions. Not just autistic kids too. I did some reading up on cerebral palsy a few days ago.

My family (that I live with) is great. No one says 'autism' but I get my space, I've never really been told I'm overreacting. My sister has bipolar and her daughter has grown up with that. And my sister's ex-partner just seems so very AS. We're all weird, or normal. I call it the Mad Jazz House. He's a jazz musician and we're all artists and their friends are artists and musicians and have either mental illness or unrecognized mental disorder.

I don't live with my mum anymore but she tries to understand. She still says that because she just deals with her problems and keeps living I should too. She's also in a pretty bad living situation that if it was me I'd never tolerate. So maybe it proves I'm a fighter. I don't just put up with things.

My other sister doesn't even try. She tries to talk to me about it and I think we're great but in other ways she's just closed. I think it's harder for my siblings I grew up with because my autism has always just been my personality. Have you ever had people say 'oh that's just so and so, it's their way.' I got that all my life. And it's hard for family to see what they thought was me as autistic symptoms.

There's one friend who I think doesn't quite understand how to deal with me. I don't want to sound like I'm telling people how to treat me but I think there's a level of sensitivity people who know me use. When someone I'm beginning to know well still sort of treats me like they would any other person it's a bit of a shock. You know they use sarcasm which can be confusing or even hurtful. Or they talk to you in a very vague way. I dunno. It's just uncomfortable.

If it was a stranger or a person I've seen only a few times or someone I know but not that closely, it would be fine.

It's why I hate making new friends because you have to tell them you're autistic if you want to be close at all.

So I don't know if that's wrong or selfish but whatever. It's how I work.

Lunacie
03-25-13, 08:12 AM
>>

There's one friend who I think doesn't quite understand how to deal with me. I don't want to sound like I'm telling people how to treat me but I think there's a level of sensitivity people who know me use. When someone I'm beginning to know well still sort of treats me like they would any other person it's a bit of a shock. You know they use sarcasm which can be confusing or even hurtful. Or they talk to you in a very vague way. I dunno. It's just uncomfortable.

If it was a stranger or a person I've seen only a few times or someone I know but not that closely, it would be fine.

It's why I hate making new friends because you have to tell them you're autistic if you want to be close at all.

So I don't know if that's wrong or selfish but whatever. It's how I work.

I grew up around a lot of sarcasm and my hubby also used
sarcasm a lot. As hard as I tried not to, it seems I've picked
up that habit somewhat myself. And very few things upset
my g-daughter as much as sarcasm.

Thanks for letting me know how sarcasm makes you feel.

deadmau5
03-28-13, 12:24 PM
I'm trying to write a sci-fi trilogy. I read a lot of Orson Scott Card who really does explore the relationship of people, mostly the screamy arguing stuff. He's taught me a lot about people's emotions. Some parts are full on over emotional and maybe that rubs off on me.

I'm a fan of Battlestar Galactica too and that show has some over the top emotions. I'm basically learning about people from shows like this. By the time I got up to Caprica I thought 'surely people don't get THIS emotional in real life?' I'm still not sure.

It could also be the fact that for a few weeks now my emotional control has been virtually non-existent. Damn hormone imbalance. But maybe from a literary perspective it could be a good thing. I always write around this time, though my meds aren't as effective and I can't write a complex sci-fi chapter. I might have a peak of intense hyperfocus but I only get one day.

Yes! I believe when you are feeling fired up emotionally it can translate into excellent inspired and interesting writing. For me political issues strikes a chord of passion and I can write a detailed informative perspective on the issue at hand. Its almost like an adrenaline rush and I cant calm down till well after I've finished writing out my thoughts, and sometimes defending them once read by others. I tend to take scrutiny of my work very personally so that inspires me even more to put out the best piece of work I can. I wish you the best in completing your sci-fi trilogy!

Vector
03-30-13, 01:58 AM
I'm a fan of Battlestar Galactica too

Haha, me too, FracturedStory, but only the series from the 80s. :)

fracturedstory
03-30-13, 11:20 PM
Yes! I believe when you are feeling fired up emotionally it can translate into excellent inspired and interesting writing. For me political issues strikes a chord of passion and I can write a detailed informative perspective on the issue at hand. Its almost like an adrenaline rush and I cant calm down till well after I've finished writing out my thoughts, and sometimes defending them once read by others. I tend to take scrutiny of my work very personally so that inspires me even more to put out the best piece of work I can. I wish you the best in completing your sci-fi trilogy!

You should hear me get emotionally fired up about political issues. Just give me a box (a very high box) to stand on to inspire a crowd. I'm really awkward when it comes to speeches but I think I could do a political speech. Not addressing a calm crowd in a professional manner, but a cheering passionate crowd and I'll throw in some 'bourgeois' and 'imperialista' when referring to the opposition. My voice will be hoarse from shouting over the tumult of applause and I'll be shaking from over excitement.

fracturedstory
03-30-13, 11:22 PM
Haha, me too, FracturedStory, but only the series from the 80s. :)
As long as they still say 'frak' all is well. I've seen the movie. Very Star Wars. What was the robot dog called? Digget?

I've got a book about the entire series of BSG. I should read it one day.