View Full Version : Untreated ADHD due to bipolar complications - anyone else?


keliza
05-21-13, 11:07 PM
I was wondering if I'm the only person here who is totally untreated for ADHD because of bipolar disorder causing too many issues with the medication used to treat ADHD?

I can't take stimulants (they make me manic) or long-term drugs like Strattera (they also make me manic), so I don't take anything for ADHD. It sucks because Ritalin was really helpful before it flipped the switch (I had a few days of normal before things blew up) but taking even a very low dose just isn't an option for me. I can't take anything that even remotely resembles an antidepressant, even with my mood stabilizer, so Strattera and Wellbutrin are both out.

Is there anyone else in this boat with me? Have you been able to take anything, like a supplement or other medication, that has helped with the ADHD symptoms? Or do you just have to tough it out?

fracturedstory
05-22-13, 12:26 AM
How long did your mania last when you took Ritalin? I'm not sure if it makes me manic. I get heightened moods but it's short. Maybe an hour. A hour tops. So I'm not sure if it's as serious as 'flipping a switch.'

If I do have bipolar I'm probably in the opposite situation. Can deal with ADHD but have these mood problems that are left untreated.

Abi
05-22-13, 01:29 AM
I don't have an ADHD diagnosis, but I was able to convince my pdoc to put me on a trial run of Ritalin, the only stim. we have here. It made me manic as a hatter at a ridiculously low dose [5mg IR tid]. It also aggravated my GAD and made me an anxious wreck.

Thankfully Wellbutrin works for me. I can take antidepressants {300 mg Wellbutrin + 40 mg Celexa} with infrequent risk of mania so long as I maintain a dose 900 mg Depakote {300 x3} and 2-3 mg Klonopin {1 x 2-3} a day.

Abi
05-22-13, 01:34 AM
PS. I don't have psychotic features innately, but developed mild, occasional paranoid delusions on Wellbutrin.

I took Risperdal for it for a while but had to stop due to side effects. I have no desire to repeat my Risperdal experience, and I've been generally able to keep my paranoia in check.

Fuzzy12
05-22-13, 07:01 AM
I'm not sure if I have ADHD, probably I don't. I've got all the symptoms though and well, they are not being treated. I've found an improvement in my ADHD like symptoms since I've started taking lamotrigine. (Though it might help just me if my ADHD like symptoms are actually caused by being bipolar/depressed)

Stress also makes the symptoms a million times worse, though I know that it's not easy to avoid stress.

Many people highly ecommend omega 3 supplements.

daveddd
05-22-13, 09:36 AM
How long did your mania last when you took Ritalin? I'm not sure if it makes me manic. I get heightened moods but it's short. Maybe an hour. A hour tops. So I'm not sure if it's as serious as 'flipping a switch.'

If I do have bipolar I'm probably in the opposite situation. Can deal with ADHD but have these mood problems that are left untreated.


I hear this a lot

Brief heightened moods from stimulants

The thing is they are mood enhancing drugs. So how do people know the difference between a mood enhancing drug enhancing your mood

Or mania

It's like if I said smoking weed brings out my underlying binge eating disorder

???

keliza
05-22-13, 12:20 PM
How long did your mania last when you took Ritalin? I'm not sure if it makes me manic. I get heightened moods but it's short. Maybe an hour. A hour tops. So I'm not sure if it's as serious as 'flipping a switch.'

If I do have bipolar I'm probably in the opposite situation. Can deal with ADHD but have these mood problems that are left untreated.

My manic episode lasted around 3 weeks, not quite a month. It ended up winding down on its own and I started taking my mood stabilizers again which pretty much dampened the rest of it. (Part of the problem was that in the beginning of the manic episode I thought, "Oh well, I feel so great, I don't need the mood stabilizers anymore!" That just made things 100x worse.)

The reaction you're having I think is a fairly normal reaction to a stimulant for someone who is perhaps hypersensitive to the medication, given that it only lasts for < an hour.

keliza
05-22-13, 12:26 PM
I don't have an ADHD diagnosis, but I was able to convince my pdoc to put me on a trial run of Ritalin, the only stim. we have here. It made me manic as a hatter at a ridiculously low dose [5mg IR tid]. It also aggravated my GAD and made me an anxious wreck.

Thankfully Wellbutrin works for me. I can take antidepressants {300 mg Wellbutrin + 40 mg Celexa} with infrequent risk of mania so long as I maintain a dose 900 mg Depakote {300 x3} and 2-3 mg Klonopin {1 x 2-3} a day.

Same thing happened to me - 5 mg IR in the morning, once a day for only about a week, and I was flying high for the next month. But it actually decreased my anxiety significantly. I don't think the anxiety decrease was related to mania, because I felt the anxiety decrease right away, before the mania set in around day 4-5. I liked how it made me feel before I became manic (then I REALLY liked how it made me feel).

I am prone to psychosis in really profound mood states (depressive, manic, or mixed) but I haven't had an issue with it in a while. As long as I stay on my meds and respond appropriately before breakthrough mood episodes get out of hand, they usually don't get bad enough that I lose touch with reality anymore.

ana futura
05-22-13, 01:39 PM
I don't have a BP dx, but I do have a highly emotional form of ADHD, and even though my doc tells me that stimulant induced mania is not the same as mania, sometimes I wonder if I am on the "BP spectrum". I have a cousin with severe Bipolar so...

Anyway, amphetamines and ritalin both make me manic, sometimes when they're active, sometimes when they wear off. When they're active I can get loopy- time expands, or my emotional landscape increases twenty fold. Things like driving past a car accident will bring me to tears. When they wear off my thoughts can become incredibly intense - like my brain is starting to explode. The volume gets really loud and I can't control it and I feel like I want to hit myself in the head with a frying pan to make it stop.

Amphetamines were clearly making me insane after a couple weeks. The emotional weirdness started sticking whether I was on the drugs or not. I was talking out loud to myself constantly as well.

I also didn't have any true understanding of depression prior to stimulants. I think I had experienced it before, but didn't really realize what was going on. Stimulants amplify the feeling- "Oh THIS is depression, isn't it?"

I've never tried a mood stabilizer or an SSRI, not do I want to. The one day I tried wellbutrin was possibly the worst feeling I have ever known.

I don't really know what to do because I think it's a really bad idea for me to be on stimulants, but I know I won't be able to get through school without them, and I don't want to take anything in addition to them, as I like how my brain feels most of the time.

I have discovered that focalin messes with me the least. I think it is the levo part of ritalin that really screws with me emotionally. Ritalin triggers a MASSIVE depression once I've been on it a while. Focalin has been okay. I do notice my mood slump sometimes, but I can manage it. I do get the "OMG MY BRAN IS EXPLODING!" feeling sometime, but I know that it will go away in a couple hours or if I take another pill, so I bear through it.

I think it is the levo part of ritalin that really messes with your emotions. It's the part that is supposed to have "anti-depressant" qualities, so I think that's what I'm reacting to. Focalin is just the dextro part, and it does feel like "ritalin, minus emotional manipulation" It might be worth a shot, on a super low dose (2.5 mgs or less) if you're willing to take the risk. So far I'm managing fine, and I've been on it off and on for months. I don't like taking it daily, and I have this strong feeling that I shouldn't try.

Other than that meditation has been really helpful. If you try it though be careful, as when you're a crazy person it can take you to some crazy places. On the whole meditation has been a very positive experience, and I do think it makes me less forgetful and more attentive. I don't misplace my keys anymore! But it can be uncomfortable at times, it will open you up to some things that you wish it hadn't.

ana futura
05-22-13, 02:01 PM
Sorry that post was so rambling.

Have you tried meditation at all Keliza? I think if I really stick with it (like devoting 40 minutes a day to it) I will be able to succeed academically without stimulants. Maybe. I think there has been a noticeable improvement in my ability to focus, but it's hard to say because you don't get instant confirmation like you do with a pill.

It's supposed to help with bipolar symptoms too.

keliza
05-22-13, 08:31 PM
Thanks for the info ana! I've tried meditation, I'm extremely bad at it. I have racing thoughts from bipolar disorder + racing thoughts from ADHD + probably a brain that just races anyway because it's thinking about so much all the time. Getting those thoughts to slow down and clear enough to meditate is impossible. Plus I can't sit still long enough to meditate, I get crawly and want to be up and moving around.

The closest thing to "meditation" that I've ever gotten is hiking through the woods, or taking long walks around the edge of the lake. Something that lets me just walk for a long time in a quiet, natural place. It's not meditation in the sense of clearing my mind, but meditation in the sense of letting my mind just completely unravel. I watch the thoughts speed through my head without making any attempt to control or stop them. It's almost relaxing, not because my brain slows down at all, but because I'm not putting in the massive effort it usually takes to even attempt to corral my thoughts. I'm just existing, just letting them be, without trying to stop or control them. They just are.

So that is kind of nice, to let my brain intentionally derail and do whatever it wants to do for a while. But it hasn't helped my focus at all when I have to go back to directing my thought processes again.

ana futura
05-22-13, 11:05 PM
Thanks for the info ana! I've tried meditation, I'm extremely bad at it. I have racing thoughts from bipolar disorder + racing thoughts from ADHD + probably a brain that just races anyway because it's thinking about so much all the time. Getting those thoughts to slow down and clear enough to meditate is impossible. Plus I can't sit still long enough to meditate, I get crawly and want to be up and moving around.

The closest thing to "meditation" that I've ever gotten is hiking through the woods, or taking long walks around the edge of the lake. Something that lets me just walk for a long time in a quiet, natural place. It's not meditation in the sense of clearing my mind, but meditation in the sense of letting my mind just completely unravel. I watch the thoughts speed through my head without making any attempt to control or stop them. It's almost relaxing, not because my brain slows down at all, but because I'm not putting in the massive effort it usually takes to even attempt to corral my thoughts. I'm just existing, just letting them be, without trying to stop or control them. They just are.

So that is kind of nice, to let my brain intentionally derail and do whatever it wants to do for a while. But it hasn't helped my focus at all when I have to go back to directing my thought processes again.

You would have to do a formal training program, especially since you have BP because it could mess you up if you don't have some sort of guidance if you get taken to the "bad place" (I went there, it's... weird. Meditation is not always pleasant, nor is it supposed to be.)

Anyway, you aren't going to clear your mind, that's not the aim. That it's even possible for beginners is a misnomer. That might happen eventually, but not for a long while, and one never "intends" to clear the mind. My mind often goes nuts when I meditate, but it's getting better- becoming less unpleasant. Still, there are times when it's very unpleasant. I always benefit though.

I did a formal training program that was a blend of vipassana and zen techniques, and that helped a lot. Vipassana I think is really good for people with active minds because you do things while you meditate- bring up emotions etc. There's actually a meditation where you do something similar to what you describe- you actively observe the thoughts. But it's a little different.

I dunno, I think if I can do it anyone can do it. Trust me, my mind is not clear, it never is. But I still get a lot of benefit. What you are really doing is building up distance between you and what you observe, you become less likely to react to things impulsively.

It's like weight training- it's really hard and unpleasant at first. It's never fun, I never want to do it. But you can train your brain like you train a muscle, over time it becomes easier, and you start to see that your brain is "stronger". Nothing happens overnight.

When people talk about meditation they go about it all wrong. It's like they say "Oh I can't lift weights because the first time I went to the gym I tried to bench press 300 lbs and I couldn't do it." Well of course you couldn't. But you could have lifted 20, right? Everyone has to start somewhere, meditation is the same way. I do think it's harder for us than people with quieter brains, but oh well. There are people who naturally have more muscle than me too. We just have more benefit to gain.

It's helped me amazingly, on so many levels. But I still struggle to force myself to do it, cause, you know, boring.

ana futura
05-22-13, 11:21 PM
To put it another way, if you already had a clear mind when you meditated, you wouldn't need to meditate.

You also wouldn't be on this forum, and you wouldn't have BP or ADHD or mood issues. There is a ton of research out there that shows meditation helps with all three of those things. Google ADHD or BP and mediation and have a look. I really think if you can't do meds, it's pretty much your only option.

I think in your case with a guided training program (like joining a research study) you'd make a lot of progress. On your own it would be more difficult.

fracturedstory
05-23-13, 02:20 AM
I hear this a lot

Brief heightened moods from stimulants

The thing is they are mood enhancing drugs. So how do people know the difference between a mood enhancing drug enhancing your mood

Or mania

It's like if I said smoking weed brings out my underlying binge eating disorder

???

Wow. Thanks for such a sensitive reply.

I become psychotic after smoking weed and now can hardly stand the smell of it. We're talking migraines, stomach cramps, seizures. Let's all take a moment and laugh at that.

Now that I'm done with partially losing control I will say it's not just a heightened mood and it doesn't just happen on stimulants. It happens through a lot of physical movement too.

I was diagnosed ADHD-PI yet most of the time I'm hyperactive.
Explain that one.

I guess I'm just a little bit concerned about staying on medication with already existing mood disorder symptoms and what that could possibly turn into.

This is what happens when the DSM says 'I'm sorry, but you don't fit the criteria and you don't fit any criteria so we'll leave you on the side of the road, in the rain and dark and cold.'

Thanks science.

I'm not diagnosed. There's no indication from my doctor that I will be diagnosed. I'm confused about what is going on with me and just how bad it's going to get.

My sister, diagnosed bipolar, has manic episodes but they've not lasted longer than a couple of hours. By the next morning it's all over. She seems mostly dysphoric than euphoric.

I suppose I should be thankful I don't have long episodes but I can't even be sure if I'm having them. I can't even chart a week properly let alone a couple of months.

daveddd
05-23-13, 05:52 AM
i wasnt trying trying to be insensitive, and i wasnt joking

mood enhancement is an effect of stimulants, they are speed

i was curios how people can tell if they are "manic" or high on speed, from being sensitive to meds

sorry the comparison offended you, it was all i could think of at the time

ana futura
05-23-13, 12:19 PM
i wasnt trying trying to be insensitive, and i wasnt joking

mood enhancement is an effect of stimulants, they are speed

i was curios how people can tell if they are "manic" or high on speed, from being sensitive to meds

sorry the comparison offended you, it was all i could think of at the time

Well I can't tell the difference. Weird things have happened to me, like an expanded sense of time and intense emotions, but again, what makes that come from me and not the drugs? I did talk to my doc about my manic symptoms, and he seemed completely unconcerned. He said the symptoms have to be present before starting meds, and they have to not be ADHD symptoms, because a lot of ADHD symptoms look like bipolar. I suspect he doesn't really go for the "rapid cycling" idea, but I haven't asked him.

The one thing that does concern me though, is that I think stimulants are starting to make me a bit unhinged. Not right after, but days after. When unmedicated I think my thoughts are louder than they used to be. A couple times now my brain has started going and it actually "hurts". Like all I can do is scream "SHUT UP BRAIN!", and then I'll start crying or freaking out. But if I go for a walk or do something I can calm myself down. I'm not sure if that never used to happen, or it's something that used to happen before meds that I didn't really pay attention to. It could just be ADHD + bad mood.

Andi
05-23-13, 12:46 PM
Ritalin was ...at first it made me so tired I could barely keep my eyes opened. Once I got over that, I had to pay attention to my mood. If I was in a good mood and felt spunky, I couldn't take it. If I was in a low mood and limited my coffee intake, I could take it. What frusrated me was the "need" for it. The more I was able to use it, the more I needed it and when it wore off, I was toast. Also, when it wore off, since I couldn't think, my anxiety shot through the roof and then I couldn't sleep. If I took a third dose, once again, couldn't sleep.

I mainly just grin and deal with my ADHD symptoms. Outside of reducing my cholesterol and improving my HDL, fish oil has had no other benefit for me. I will say that I have dove head first into an organic lifestyle (no, I still take my Bipolar meds) and have noticed a difference in several aspects of life. The most beneficial result is I'm not as hungry and I have more energy. More energy has translated into a greater ability to hyperfocus and has improved my overall mood. My better mood has improved my anxiety. My only issue, which I hope will improve with more exercise, is the ability to sleep. I still can't turn my mind off at night.

keliza
05-23-13, 01:02 PM
i wasnt trying trying to be insensitive, and i wasnt joking

mood enhancement is an effect of stimulants, they are speed

i was curios how people can tell if they are "manic" or high on speed, from being sensitive to meds

sorry the comparison offended you, it was all i could think of at the time

For me personally, I can tell the difference because I'm sensitive to caffeine, but it doesn't make me manic. If I refill my coffee more than once, I'm going to start feeling a little high and strangely focused. But I'm not manic, within a few hours the feeling goes away and I'm back to baseline. When I took Ritalin, I was manic for a month, but I only took the meds a few times - after those first couple of days, my brain flipped and it didn't need the Ritalin anymore to be manic. So that's the difference for me.

keliza
05-23-13, 01:04 PM
Thanks everyone for your input and ideas! I really do appreciate all of the help. I think I'm going to try the guided meditation and see what happens. It sounds like my concept of what it means to meditate is probably not accurate to what meditation actually is, so I'll be interested to learn more about actual meditation and try to put more effort into that.

Fuzzy12
05-23-13, 01:13 PM
Thanks everyone for your input and ideas! I really do appreciate all of the help. I think I'm going to try the guided meditation and see what happens. It sounds like my concept of what it means to meditate is probably not accurate to what meditation actually is, so I'll be interested to learn more about actual meditation and try to put more effort into that.

I'm not sure if there is anything like "actual" meditation. There are many forms of meditation and I guess, most people have to keep trying out different types till they find something that works for them. Guided meditation sounds good though. I hope it will help. :grouphug:

daveddd
05-23-13, 03:55 PM
For me personally, I can tell the difference because I'm sensitive to caffeine, but it doesn't make me manic. If I refill my coffee more than once, I'm going to start feeling a little high and strangely focused. But I'm not manic, within a few hours the feeling goes away and I'm back to baseline. When I took Ritalin, I was manic for a month, but I only took the meds a few times - after those first couple of days, my brain flipped and it didn't need the Ritalin anymore to be manic. So that's the difference for me.

Ok. This makes sense

Like when we went one notch too high on adderal. I felt speedy and euphoric. But I new it was the drugs effects I wondered if peoria called that manic

But Wellbutrin sent me into a long delusional. Grandiose. Flood of ideas mania

ana futura
05-23-13, 04:40 PM
I'm not sure if there is anything like "actual" meditation. There are many forms of meditation and I guess, most people have to keep trying out different types till they find something that works for them. Guided meditation sounds good though. I hope it will help. :grouphug:

This is a pretty cool study-
"Not All Meditation Types Are One-Size-Fits-All, Study Suggests"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/07/meditation-types-mindfulness-mantra-zen-qigong_n_1651902.html

There's new research expanding on this theme- For instance, what type of meditation might work best for a particular disorder? In my own experience, I find both Zen and Vipassana helpful. I have trouble telling everything apart actually.

daveddd
05-23-13, 11:52 PM
This is a pretty cool study-
"Not All Meditation Types Are One-Size-Fits-All, Study Suggests"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/07/meditation-types-mindfulness-mantra-zen-qigong_n_1651902.html

There's new research expanding on this theme- For instance, what type of meditation might work best for a particular disorder? In my own experience, I find both Zen and Vipassana helpful. I have trouble telling everything apart actually.

can you say what aspects it helps?

and how?

Cyllya
05-24-13, 12:23 AM
I haven't been able to get an evaluation, so the only medication option I had was Ritalin, and my doctor didn't believe it was save for me to take an effective dose, because it was causing me heart problems. :( So I'm taking very deliberate doses of caffeine instead. It's not the most effective treatment, and it's probably not safe either, but it's better than nothing, and I don't need a doctor's permission.

(PS: I'm unipolar. Totally didn't notice this thread was in the bipolar section.)

ana futura
05-24-13, 01:23 AM
can you say what aspects it helps?

and how?

So I've done a few types as part of Jon Kabat Zinn's program (which is the workbook you posted). I think the kind that I find most useful is a mindfulness/ vipassana practice that involves focusing my attention to different points. I will sit for a while, focusing my attention on my breath. Then I will shift my awareness to sounds. Trying only to hear the raw sounds, and trying not to attach meaning to them. Then I will shift my attention to something in my field of vision, trying to only see the raw visual data.

This practice seems to work really well for ADHD. I think over time it slows me down, and makes me more aware of my surroundings. I think Zen type meditation where you continually bring your attention back to your breath is similar though.

There's another practice of vipassana (for beginners) called labeling- if a thought comes in, you label it "thinking". You can do the same with emotions. First you try to identify what physical sensations are indentified with certain emotions. I learned to identify emotions I wasn't aware I was feeling this way. Then, when you are meditating or out in the world, you label the emotion when you notice it, like "fear". The label might change over time.

This practice has been really helpful for expanding my emotional landscape. I feel a larger range of emotions when I have been practicing this, well beyond my usual range of "Angry, distraught, happy". It's also been helpful with my anxiety. I have a lot trouble recognizing when I'm anxious, or what things make me anxious. Learning the "why" behind my anxiety has been the first step in diffusing it.

daveddd
05-24-13, 01:38 AM
So I've done a few types as part of Jon Kabat Zinn's program (which is the workbook you posted). I think the kind that I find most useful is a mindfulness/ vipassana practice that involves focusing my attention to different points. I will sit for a while, focusing my attention on my breath. Then I will shift my awareness to sounds. Trying only to hear the raw sounds, and trying not to attach meaning to them. Then I will shift my attention to something in my field of vision, trying to only see the raw visual data.

This practice seems to work really well for ADHD. I think over time it slows me down, and makes me more aware of my surroundings. I think Zen type meditation where you continually bring your attention back to your breath is similar though.

There's another practice of vipassana (for beginners) called labeling- if a thought comes in, you label it "thinking". You can do the same with emotions. First you try to identify what physical sensations are indentified with certain emotions. I learned to identify emotions I wasn't aware I was feeling this way. Then, when you are meditating or out in the world, you label the emotion when you notice it, like "fear". The label might change over time.

This practice has been really helpful for expanding my emotional landscape. I feel a larger range of emotions when I have been practicing this, well beyond my usual range of "Angry, distraught, happy". It's also been helpful with my anxiety. I have a lot trouble recognizing when I'm anxious, or what things make me anxious. Learning the "why" behind my anxiety has been the first step in diffusing it.

thanks

yea i should do that

i just recently have been trying to link physical sensations to emotions

i only know a couple so far

i have a book, 'Handbook of Integrative Clinical Psychology, Psychiatry, and Behavioral medicine ''' open on another page

i was reading the alexthymia section and it mentioned meditation

and zinn is mentioned

ana futura
05-24-13, 01:52 AM
thanks

yea i should do that

i just recently have been trying to link physical sensations to emotions

i only know a couple so far

i have a book, 'Handbook of Integrative Clinical Psychology, Psychiatry, and Behavioral medicine ''' open on another page

i was reading the alexthymia section and it mentioned meditation

and zinn is mentioned

There's also a practice where you bring up an event or thing that pains you. It's good to start with something small. You keep focusing on it, trying to label it, and also trying to notice the body sensations that accompany it.
The guided tapes really help with this I think.

Zinn's program is ideal for people who are really struggling or suffering. He has the progression of techniques worked out really well, and each practice does something slightly different. All meditation practices are helpful I think, but MBSR puts it into a really efficient package, and you learn so many techniques that later you can pick and choose whatever works best for you. MBSR is like a meditation tool box. And because it's so diverse, it's harder to get bored or discouraged.

daveddd
05-24-13, 01:54 AM
i wonder why there isnt more on ADHD and alexthymia

Idiota
05-24-13, 08:46 AM
I was wondering if I'm the only person here who is totally untreated for ADHD because of bipolar disorder causing too many issues with the medication used to treat ADHD?

I can't take stimulants (they make me manic) or long-term drugs like Strattera (they also make me manic), so I don't take anything for ADHD. It sucks because Ritalin was really helpful before it flipped the switch (I had a few days of normal before things blew up) but taking even a very low dose just isn't an option for me. I can't take anything that even remotely resembles an antidepressant, even with my mood stabilizer, so Strattera and Wellbutrin are both out.

Is there anyone else in this boat with me? Have you been able to take anything, like a supplement or other medication, that has helped with the ADHD symptoms? Or do you just have to tough it out?


Yeah, I was in this boat for a long time. You should check my post history. 3 weeks ago I was prescribed wellbutrin for it because he decided to finally go with what I wanted. He made me get on 600 mg of Trileptal first before being willing to try anything and I had to show I wasn't feeling manic or anything. The Wellbutrin is doing **** all so far and I'm really worried.

I'm unemployed and I don't have a lot of prospects honestly and I've been trying to learn how to program for the 6 months, but that doesn't help when you're an inattentive dunderhead without mental energy. I just don't get stimulated, since I'm emotional about this topic, I'm cranking out this post but when it comes to writing code I just can't do it, and you don't learn copy/paste.

The above is very problematic, because my ultimate goal is to get into one of the 9 week bootcamp courses by the end of the year(i found one where you don't pay unless you get job), but time is starting to run out for me to get an application in to them. It's my greatest fear to mess up the application process because there's a challenge and I'm probably not good enough despite doing more work on coding than most people. Actually, scratch that, I've been more inefficient than most people, so something someone could learn in a month so far has taken me more than that if I've learned it at all. Mental energy and concentration is everything and I don't have it. I'm already going to have problems due to my lack of real world experience in terms of jobs, but I could probably get past that hurdle if I can show I can do it and it's the most important thing to them. I already have a strategy going in for the personal essay, but it doesn't matter if I can't do the coding challenge.

Anyway, I got bumped to 300 mg of Wellbutrin last week, it's a generic Watson SR and it's 2 150 mg pills a day. It's just not working for me and all I've gotten so far is nausea and headaches/migraines from time to time. Honestly, the whole having ADD PI and Bipolar at the same time has ruined my life more or less. I also have severe social anxiety and motior function issues. In addition, I have college degree but it's not particularly useful and nothing else really, but it's not like I could have done Comp Sci or Engineering and I ****** Philosophy up, too.

However, I just want to be able to move out soon as possible and stop relying on my mother. I'm a serious burden given that her income isn't very high and she already had to give me money she could ill afford to give when I was in college.

keliza
05-24-13, 02:00 PM
Yeah, I was in this boat for a long time. You should check my post history. 3 weeks ago I was prescribed wellbutrin for it because he decided to finally go with what I wanted. He made me get on 600 mg of Trileptal first before being willing to try anything and I had to show I wasn't feeling manic or anything. The Wellbutrin is doing **** all so far and I'm really worried.

I'm unemployed and I don't have a lot of prospects honestly and I've been trying to learn how to program for the 6 months, but that doesn't help when you're an inattentive dunderhead without mental energy. I just don't get stimulated, since I'm emotional about this topic, I'm cranking out this post but when it comes to writing code I just can't do it, and you don't learn copy/paste.

The above is very problematic, because my ultimate goal is to get into one of the 9 week bootcamp courses by the end of the year(i found one where you don't pay unless you get job), but time is starting to run out for me to get an application in to them. It's my greatest fear to mess up the application process because there's a challenge and I'm probably not good enough despite doing more work on coding than most people. Actually, scratch that, I've been more inefficient than most people, so something someone could learn in a month so far has taken me more than that if I've learned it at all. Mental energy and concentration is everything and I don't have it. I'm already going to have problems due to my lack of real world experience in terms of jobs, but I could probably get past that hurdle if I can show I can do it and it's the most important thing to them. I already have a strategy going in for the personal essay, but it doesn't matter if I can't do the coding challenge.

Anyway, I got bumped to 300 mg of Wellbutrin last week, it's a generic Watson SR and it's 2 150 mg pills a day. It's just not working for me and all I've gotten so far is nausea and headaches/migraines from time to time. Honestly, the whole having ADD PI and Bipolar at the same time has ruined my life more or less. I also have severe social anxiety and motior function issues. In addition, I have college degree but it's not particularly useful and nothing else really, but it's not like I could have done Comp Sci or Engineering and I ****** Philosophy up, too.

However, I just want to be able to move out soon as possible and stop relying on my mother. I'm a serious burden given that her income isn't very high and she already had to give me money she could ill afford to give when I was in college.

I'm sorry to hear that things have been so rough for you. I work in IT so I understand just how steep the learning curve is for things like programming and tech support. It's extremely demanding and even a lot of NT people struggle with it. It really is the kind of field where either you have a mind for it, or you don't. But if you're putting in all this work for it, I think it would be good to at least try the program and see what happens. The worst that happens is you can't complete it, and you might find that you learn better and faster when you're being taught by someone in a classroom setting, versus trying to teach yourself. It's worth a shot.

I hear that with antidepressants like Wellbutrin, you have to give it at least a few weeks before you decide whether it's working at that dose or not. Antidepressants aren't like mood stabilizers, they don't kick in within a few days. I've heard 4-6 weeks before you can properly say if the medication is working or not. I personally can't take them, but they might work for you if you stick with them and give them the full 6 weeks to see if they take effect.

Things look a lot better when you're not depressed. If I try to look at the future when I'm depressed, I see everything through that negative lens and it looks like I'll never amount to anything and nobody will ever love me and I'm going to die alone on the side of the road. I really don't think that's true when I'm not depressed, but when I am depressed, I'm looking at the world through a completely different lens. I think when you get past this depressive episode, you will see the future in a more positive light. It's just the getting there that is so hard.

Idiota
05-24-13, 07:36 PM
I'm sorry to hear that things have been so rough for you. I work in IT so I understand just how steep the learning curve is for things like programming and tech support. It's extremely demanding and even a lot of NT people struggle with it. It really is the kind of field where either you have a mind for it, or you don't. But if you're putting in all this work for it, I think it would be good to at least try the program and see what happens. The worst that happens is you can't complete it, and you might find that you learn better and faster when you're being taught by someone in a classroom setting, versus trying to teach yourself. It's worth a shot.

I hear that with antidepressants like Wellbutrin, you have to give it at least a few weeks before you decide whether it's working at that dose or not. Antidepressants aren't like mood stabilizers, they don't kick in within a few days. I've heard 4-6 weeks before you can properly say if the medication is working or not. I personally can't take them, but they might work for you if you stick with them and give them the full 6 weeks to see if they take effect.

Things look a lot better when you're not depressed. If I try to look at the future when I'm depressed, I see everything through that negative lens and it looks like I'll never amount to anything and nobody will ever love me and I'm going to die alone on the side of the road. I really don't think that's true when I'm not depressed, but when I am depressed, I'm looking at the world through a completely different lens. I think when you get past this depressive episode, you will see the future in a more positive light. It's just the getting there that is so hard.


I'm not in a depressive episode. If I was still in a depressive episode, I wouldn't be able to do what I already did. I've learned a lot because I've thrown myself at the wall, so the potential is there. My problem is I've always lacked mental energy for most things, even things I was intensely interested in like Philosophy. I could learn passively from books and show off my knowledge of something I read in a class by remembering terms and such, but when it came time to write about it, I was just a huge pinata for the grad students grading my papers.

Honestly, programming is not that inaccessible. You just have to do the work. I stayed away from it because it seemed intimidating for most of my life, but when I got down to actually trying it, it wasn't that inaccessible. My lack of stimulation in general was the problem. It's also said that a structured environment is probably better and people who have gone said they learned more from it than on their own for a year. Philosophy didn't work out and I have nowhere else to go, so I'm all in and it's do or die like the last five seconds of a tied basketball game. Game of thrones, etc. It's probably better this way because I wouldn't be as determined to hammer on and try to get my inattentiveness addressed as far as fighting my psychiatrist on it went. I had to stand up for myself or I was just going to be on solely mood stabilizers forever.

I spent a lot of time in a depressive episode as a vegetable more or less and I just couldn't think of anything I could do.