View Full Version : Adderall withdrawal HELL !! after 6 years


Mee
02-11-05, 08:09 AM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .

Again I wish someone had told me years ago when I first started it that I would pay dearly for this wonder drug that made me feel so good when I had to get off of it . And yes I do not believe you can stay on it for life ... when you get up to needing about 60 + mg a day in your 4th or 5th year you start to understand the toll an Amphetamine takes on your health over a long period of time . Again this is just my experience and I am looking for someone who has been on it 5 or 6 years to tell me where they are at . As I read these posts I see most people have only got a few years if that on the stuff .

RhapsodyInBlue
02-11-05, 08:18 AM
Mee, I'm an unmedicated ADD'er, apart from my caffeine intake, so I cannot add to what you ask, but I can say 100% that you have written the complete reason I would NEVER take any of these drugs.

My husband recently came off of Dexamphetamine after only 3 years, and that was extremely unpleasant to say the least. Now his body is returning to normal, and I hope he never goes near another Amphetamine again. It's his choice, but I want a healthy husband. I'd prefer him "foggy" :)

Anyone, ADD or Non ADD would feel good on an Amphetamine. I will be given the "chill" for saying this, but it's the truth.

My thoughts are with you. You've a long journey ahead, but I think you'll make it. You're too annoyed at the Dr's to not make it.

Take Care,
Viktoria

Ancient Music
02-11-05, 08:42 AM
After three years on dexamphetamine, I am now off it. It was a hard time indeed but I'm glad that I made it.

Like you, I came to rely on the stimulant to wake me up in the morning and keep me going at work. Sometimes I would work all night to meet a deadline and my medication was being used to excess for the wrong reasons.

In retrospect, had I been given sufficient health warnings as to side effects and potential long term health damage of these stimulants, I never would have commenced taking them in the first place. I'm better off without them. (caffiene clears the fog eventually :rolleyes: )

Amphetamines are proven beyond all reasonable doubt, able to cause long term health damage and after having been down that path for three years, I wont ever go there again and would not advise anyone else to. Long term, learning new behaviour skills through CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) is a much safer health option.

Dex is supposed to be short acting (4-8hours), however my experience is that its effects on my body were continuing for days after ceasing taking the meds and much smaller doses than currently pescribed were effective.

The rush to prescribe stimulant medications appears to me, be driven by corporate greed with multi billions of dollars sales at stake, rather that the long term health interests of ADD'ers.

All my love and kisses to Viktoria :-x :-x :-x

Mee
02-11-05, 09:10 AM
Thanks you guys .... I only wish I had heard the other side to all of this years ago ... If the Dr.'s had told me I would have not needed them , I only kept going back to the Dr every month to get prescriptions . If they had told me about exercise and other ways of dealing with ADD besides drugs I would of had the information I needed and not had to keep coming back for those useless sessions that were nothing more than a necessity for the prescriptions.

Mee
02-11-05, 09:18 AM
My husband recently came off of Dexamphetamine after only 3 years, and that was extremely unpleasant to say the least. Now his body is returning to normal, and I hope he never goes near another Amphetamine again. It's his choice, but I want a healthy husband. I'd prefer him "foggy"

P.S. your husband is so lucky to have someone that will give him that kind of support and reinforcement . My girlfriend and I did not stay together becuase I became such another person after about 5 years on that stuff . What a loss to not have her in my life after being together for almost 10 years .. we just did not know what that stuff was doing to me .... It just turned me into another person and now that I am back to my old self she and so so much is gone .

livinginchaos
02-11-05, 09:14 PM
I've been on ADDerall for 6 years - and am very careful with taking it. I rarely take it on the weekends and never when I'm on vacation.
I have never had a withdrawl symptom from ADDerall. Neither have I felt the "need" to take it (meaning addiction to it).

I think there is a difference to "feeling good" being on an amphetamine and understanding that you are taking it to help deal with ADD; to aid in everyday functional living.

Being a person with ADD also means being an advocate for yourself - and not relying on others to tell what else you can do to help yourself deal with ADD.

purerealm
02-12-05, 06:46 AM
livinginchaos you give me hope

Lucid
02-12-05, 01:31 PM
Mee: I'm interested to know the long term physical toll. Could you please share with us? See a separate thead I recently posted. This is a big concern of mine.

Lucid
02-12-05, 01:33 PM
Being a person with ADD also means being an advocate for yourself - and not relying on others to tell what else you can do to help yourself deal with ADD.


Thas the best advice I've heard!!!! We all need to remember this, every day.

chameleon
02-12-05, 04:58 PM
You are scaring me. I never heard that Adderall can cause tooth decay just like street meth users get. And the 'high'..I thought ADDers didn't feel that after the first few days of starting it because our brain's didn't react to it that way. My children just got put on Adderall XR, and one of them took his first pill yesterday. He was very happy all day until the 'crash' when he came down. He was angry at me and said that if the good feeling had to go away every day he didn't want to take them. He either wanted to feel good all the time or not. I assumed he was talking about the 'high' effects of the first few days, until his body adjusted to it.
I thought Adderall wasn't addictive to ADDers!!!!!
I have only been on Adderall XR for like 3 months, and was just upped to 60mgs because it doesn't seem to be helping me. But my oldest son - it makes such a difference for him. Quality of life is improved 100% for him. I was hoping the same for my other son. Am I doing him a terrible disservice by making him take the Adderall when he doesn't want to? (my younger son)
What bad health effects does it cause in the long run?

Lucid
02-12-05, 05:13 PM
You are scaring me. I never heard that Adderall can cause tooth decay just like street meth users get. And the 'high'..I thought ADDers didn't feel that after the first few days of starting it because our brain's didn't react to it that way. My children just got put on Adderall XR, and one of them took his first pill yesterday. He was very happy all day until the 'crash' when he came down. He was angry at me and said that if the good feeling had to go away every day he didn't want to take them. He either wanted to feel good all the time or not. I assumed he was talking about the 'high' effects of the first few days, until his body adjusted to it.
I thought Adderall wasn't addictive to ADDers!!!!!
I have only been on Adderall XR for like 3 months, and was just upped to 60mgs because it doesn't seem to be helping me. But my oldest son - it makes such a difference for him. Quality of life is improved 100% for him. I was hoping the same for my other son. Am I doing him a terrible disservice by making him take the Adderall when he doesn't want to? (my younger son)
What bad health effects does it cause in the long run?

I think the tooth decay problem is with an issue any drug that causes dry mouth.

Addictive? I am beginning to think so. In addition to better productivity, I do feel a light euphoria. Its a very good feeling that fills one with positive emotions and proactive attitude. Not complaining about this, just worried about the possibilities of addiction. Thats why I take a holiday on the weekends - just to convince myself that it is not the case.

chameleon
02-12-05, 06:05 PM
Years ago I tried speed, cocaine, and it had no effect on me. Everyone else was having a merry old time, but I never got any effect from it. Recently I found out that was because I am ADHD, so why are you all having the euphoric highs of Adderall if you're ADD? I never got that from my Adderall, but my youngest son did yesterday... My oldest didn't. I'm getting confused. Could the ones who get 'high' off Adderall (especially after the first 3 days) be misdiagnosed? But my youngest is the most ADD person I've ever seen. But maybe it's something else? Maybe he has something besides ADD that causes him to be so forgetful and addlebrained. He fits all the ADD criteria. But he sure was 'high' yesterday on his first dose.

chameleon
02-12-05, 06:07 PM
Addictive? I am beginning to think so. In addition to better productivity, I do feel a light euphoria. Its a very good feeling that fills one with positive emotions and proactive attitude. Not complaining about this, just worried about the possibilities of addiction.

And I never felt that way - the euphoria, positive emotions and proactive attitude. I thought my dose just wasn't high enough or maybe Adderall just wouldn't work for me.
But I REALLY thought that ADDers did NOT get 'high' on methamphetamines. That it had the opposite effect on us. I thought that's why they use it on us.

moonlily
02-12-05, 09:10 PM
I continue to be concerned about all the people who are venemently attacking these drugs. Just because something has the POTENTIAL for abuse, side effects and is heavily abused, is no reason to discount it. A healthy ADD'r who is getting GOOD care should never feel guilty or scared for taking adderral or any other amphetamine. I seriously think a lot of these people who feel "high" or need it for energy, either might not have ADD, or are taking too much. It takes a experienced doctor and patient experimentation to get to the right dosage. These drugs should make you feel normal or calmer, not hyped up. When are people going to start getting worked up over the incredible loss of productivity, confidence and damaged self-esteem and possibly even crimes that may be committed because of untreated ADD? Please no one ever let one scary post get you from getting treatment. These drugs have been used for over 50 years, most of the preservatives & chemicals we injest daily are newer. Just use a balanced approach to your health.

Mee
02-12-05, 09:49 PM
have only been on Adderall XR for like 3 months, and was just upped to 60mgs because it doesn't seem to be helping me.
chameleon .... my heart goes out to you I read some of your posts and threads ... you say that you drink coffee all day and night and you are on Klonopin 3 times a day and are up to 60 mg of Adderall and you are on Lexapro . You have so many drugs pulling you in so many direction it is no wonder that you can not tell if the Adderall is working . I suggest you get over to http://www.benzo.org.uk/ and get on that forum becuase you need some solid info on the Klonopin . I have been right where you are and it is a viscous cycle of drugs pulling you in different directions all day . Did you tell your Dr that you drink coffee all day and night on top of all the drugs he has you on . It sounds like you need a second opinion when it comes to Dr.'s and especially if you are taking your kids to the same Dr .

stanzen
02-13-05, 01:40 PM
I continue to be concerned about all the people who are venemently attacking these drugs. Just because something has the POTENTIAL for abuse, side effects and is heavily abused, is no reason to discount it. A healthy ADD'r who is getting GOOD care should never feel guilty or scared for taking adderral or any other amphetamine.

I agree with moonlily, but cavaet emptor with amphetamines and Ritalin. If you take these drugs every day for years, then stop abruptly, you will probably experience discontinuance symptoms. These drugs affect your neurotransmitters, which need time to recalibrate after you stop. Tapering off is recommended.

Livinginchaos has a solution that I have been trying; drug holidays. But, if I decide to forgo drug holidays, I'm aware that stopping abruptly will be unpleasant.

Knowlege is good. We need to make our own choices.

chameleon
02-13-05, 05:15 PM
Thank you Mee, I went to the site but it won't let me access the page to apply for registration to the forum...
Yes my doctor knows I drink coffee all day.
I didn't know Klonopin was addictive either... :(

chameleon .... my heart goes out to you I read some of your posts and threads ... you say that you drink coffee all day and night and you are on Klonopin 3 times a day and are up to 60 mg of Adderall and you are on Lexapro . You have so many drugs pulling you in so many direction it is no wonder that you can not tell if the Adderall is working . I suggest you get over to http://www.benzo.org.uk/ and get on that forum becuase you need some solid info on the Klonopin . I have been right where you are and it is a viscous cycle of drugs pulling you in different directions all day . Did you tell your Dr that you drink coffee all day and night on top of all the drugs he has you on . It sounds like you need a second opinion when it comes to Dr.'s and especially if you are taking your kids to the same Dr .

Mee
02-13-05, 06:34 PM
I didn't know Klonopin was addictive either

chameleon
Hard to believe your Dr would put you on this drug and not tell you that it is addictive . Benzodiazepines*are the most addictive substances on the earth*. Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time.

(NOTE: Links have been removed by moderator for the purposes of promoting safety and adherence to forum regulations.-KJ/C)

Gregster
02-14-05, 12:32 PM
Your body gets used to most psychoactive drugs but that doesn't mean that you are addicted. Feeling withdrawl from Effexor or Prozac or whatever doesn't mean you are an addict. Addiction is more of a mental health issue as true addiction involves compulsive pursuit and preoccupation with a substance or activity, and personal disorganization and desperation after cessation.
Amphetamines and benzodiazipines can be addictive, if abused, but when used as directed there should be no physical withdrawl and depending on the person, only slight psychological withdrawl. I'd only be worried about addiction if you couldn't stop taking stimulants - if you find that you can't take a drug holiday of any kind, you may have a problem.
Earlier in the thread the issue of ADHDers feeling or not feeling "high" from stimulants was raised. I want to clarify this. Some people with ADHD find that they don't feel stimulated or "high" from the drug, but this is not universal and it is not an indication of whether or not a person "truely" has ADHD. Response to medication should never be used as a diagnositic tool for ADHD because it does not prove anything - Stimulants improve focus, etc. in people with and without ADHD, and they don't work the same way in everyone, so the response will be as variable as the people taking it.

free2bme
02-22-05, 10:56 PM
Some people with ADHD find that they don't feel stimulated or "high" from the drug, but this is not universal and it is not an indication of whether or not a person "truely" has ADHD. Response to medication should never be used as a diagnositic tool for ADHD because it does not prove anything - Stimulants improve focus, etc. in people with and without ADHD, and they don't work the same way in everyone, so the response will be as variable as the people taking it.
Greg, two questions....did you mean to say that "some people with ADHD find that they DO feel stimulated or "high" from the drug, but this is not universal and is not an indication....." i only ask because i just read this thread, and the way i'm interpreting your comment here is that you're saying it's more common for people to FEEL somehow stimulated or "high." make sense? unless i'm reading that wrong, didn't you mean it the other way around??

also, i'm curious as to the comment that stimulants help "everyone" focus better. i've seen such the opposite and have read reports where those without adhd who were given stimulants had terrible reactions of severe anxiety, headache, etc.....i mean, obviously there are folks who have taken street drugs who aren't adhd and have gotten addicted to them. but do you really think it's the focus they're getting? i've always figured it was the euphoria, high, or lack of inhibition that got them.

i may be having a serious adhd moment here and just misread your post completely...but when free gets confused.....you know as well as anyone...she just raises her hand and says "QUESTION OVER HERE!!!":D

thanks.

andocrates
02-23-05, 01:21 AM
So to recap you got 5 years of your life back, but now to pay for that 5 years you have to endure 2-3 weeks of unhappiness.

Imnapl
02-23-05, 01:50 AM
Just a thought:
If someone's mood has been depressed for some time, it becomes "normal" for that person. Someone else has a healthy feeling of well-being. Both take the same meds. The person with the depressed mood feels "euphoric", or a sense of well-being in response to the meds while the other person notices only a slight difference in mood.
L.

Gregster
02-23-05, 02:59 AM
"Free",
I did mean to say that most people with ADHD do feel stimulated by stimulants - how stimulated depends on the dose. Some ADHDers have the opposite effect, but it's not the majority, as far as I can tell. And "normals" who take stimulants do get improved focus - if they take the right dose. Too much stimulant is worse than none at all, so those that are taking illegal drugs like methamphetamine aren't seeing any improvement in focus since they are usually taking several orders of magnitude more drug than we do - 5 g or methamphetamine a day is not unheard of - that's 5000 mg! For me about a 2 month supply.
Students who take Adderall illegally in order to "cram" for exams and such don't have a good idea about the best amount to take - so they probably take more figuring that more is always better - and they'll get the headaches, anxiety and insomnia that comes with taking too much if they aren't careful.

free2bme
02-23-05, 03:11 AM
OK. I'm with you now. I was thinking you were referencing the street drug variety in doses far exceeding prescribed amounts. on the other thread where it was said to be a myth that stimulant meds affect both adhders the same as non-adhders, i got confused. but i was talking about children given adhd meds that were certainly too high for their bodies to handle and would essentially give them that headache, anxiety feeling. i've seen it in kids myself. so i think maybe by the end of that thread everyone was just misunderstanding each other or something. i definitely agree that in general, many nonadders and adders would see a similar reaction to stimulant meds.

sorry.....just in a state of mind fog!!!!!!!

Mee
02-23-05, 01:25 PM
free2bme has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

free2bme this is what I get when I try to return your message and question ... so I will put it here .
I would be happy to answer you under this thread on the board where everyone can learn something if you would like to ask the same question here .

superpabs
02-26-05, 02:36 PM
Hello all, I am currently about 5 days into my titration off of adderall XR/adderall. I was taking anywhere from 60-80 mg/day, and am down to 20 XR now. Honestly, the combination of exhaustion and dependence has been really rough on my body. Even though I am a seventeen year old male, 6'2 and 180 pounds, I feel like a ragdoll that has been tossed in front of a speeding train. I took most of the last week off of school, honestly something I wouldn't have been able to get away with if I weren't class president, and spent most of that time in a conglomerate of insomnia/hypersomnia/stomach cramps/vomitting on night 1/nightmares/sweats etc. I have been on stimulant medications of various sorts for the past 5 years, and have experienced great success and powerful failures. Their seems to be no rhyme or reason for why my medicine will work effectively one month, and fail totally the next. It would appear that I am one of the relative majority for whom stimulant medication is not an effective long term solution. Before people start taking my example as the anti-adderall gospel, please remember how many people are helped by these medications. I would love to speak to someone else (or multiple others) who is/are of a similiar ADD-type (able to skate by on intellect, tried medication and experienced both wonderful and awful effects, etc). Honestly, I have no idea who I am at this point - and that scares me the most. Will my girlfriend and I still be the same once I am unmedicated? Will my teachers have the same respect and affection for me if I am a clearly different student in the coming months? Will I be able to keep up with the rigors of the colleges I applied to if I am unmedicated? Sorry if this seems like a crazy, incoherent ramble, but I am just more than a little confused right now. Thanks for any input, and this forum is an awesome resource! Keep it real,
Ben

KnittingJunkie
03-22-05, 02:20 AM
I believe Gregster posted something quite a while ago regarding the matter of medications in discussion, what is appropriate, and what is not appropriate.

Giving pharmaceutical comments on a certain substance being the most addictive on earth is most certainly an inappropriate statement. In extremes it has been called practicing medicine without a license. All I can possibly hope is that Chameleon chose to speak to his or her licensed, certified, medical practitioner before taking action based on your commentary regarding this medication. It is also my hope that Chameleon had the good sense to ignore someone else's decision of her doctor's competency or lack thereof.

I will request and assume that you will, from now on, refrain from putting forth statements such as this in public forums. If not, further action may have to be taken. Should you require assistance with frustration or other upset having read this message, or simply deem it to be without merit, please feel free to contact the administration.

Chrys

chameleon
Hard to believe your Dr would put you on this drug and not tell you that it is addictive . Benzodiazepines*are the most addictive substances on the earth*. Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time.

(NOTE: Links have been removed by moderator for the purposes of promoting safety and adherence to forum regulations.-KJ/C)

<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

davidlaska
02-06-09, 08:14 PM
I've been on ADDerall for 6 years - and am very careful with taking it. I rarely take it on the weekends and never when I'm on vacation.
I have never had a withdrawl symptom from ADDerall. Neither have I felt the "need" to take it (meaning addiction to it).

I think there is a difference to "feeling good" being on an amphetamine and understanding that you are taking it to help deal with ADD; to aid in everyday functional living.

Being a person with ADD also means being an advocate for yourself - and not relying on others to tell what else you can do to help yourself deal with ADD.

I am fifty years old and was addicted to Meth for 20 years, I quite tampering off two years ago. Then I became a heavy drinker (I got into so much trouble in a few months... and no trouble on meth). Then when I diagnosed with ADHD, they gave me Adderall which had a pleasant side affect: I do not drink at all...

I do take Adderall similar to you and I never take it when I have a cold or such.

There is no withdrawal at recommended dosages.

I am healthy again and my liver is testing with less numbers in the red at time passes.

fxfake
02-06-09, 08:38 PM
I didn't know Klonopin was addictive either... :(

IME it's far more addictive than Adderall, Dexedrine, et al. (when taken at normal/prescribed doses).

kiosk
02-07-09, 07:57 AM
wow...soooo, a lot about long term health effect, but not a clue about what they are? would love to see someone elaborate a bit more on this
come on guys.....are u kiddin me? just because u used/abused a drug for some reason and now arent happy it doesnt mean is bad, there are people that are addicted to benzos, pain killers, etc

and caffeine is not addictive? caffeine doesnt stress your body??? what do you think it is? is a stimulant! and millions upon millions of people cannot function daily w/o their 4-6 cups a day!

EVERYTHING you do in life has long term effects, not exercising, not eating correctly, not sleeping......

prr_fan
02-07-09, 10:48 AM
I would love to see any citations to a peer reviewed scientific study that even begins to prove that there are adverse long term effects of taking prescribed doses of Adderall. The misinformation in some of these posts is astounding. I am mazed how some folks were doing OK with meds and then went off of them and had "withdrawl". The their lives fell apart?? maybe it was because the drug was actually helping? Maybe your "withdrawl" was because you assumed that you knew more than a physician and decided to just stop taking the medication! If a diabetic thinks they take insulin to get by, does that mean they are relying on medication to live? Should they stop taking it? All medications do have side effects. However, when a doc prescribes a med, they weigh the risks/benefits. I hope folks who have just started taking ADHD meds are not scared off by the unsupported posts!

SerenDipity
02-07-09, 12:41 PM
I would love to see any citations to a peer reviewed scientific study that even begins to prove that there are adverse long term effects of taking prescribed doses of Adderall.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8019.php


Granted, that study was a two-year study and the OP is talking about 6 years.

My understanding of stimulant meds for ADD/ADHD treatment is that once you've found the most beneficial dose, it shouldn't need to be titrated up anymore? (per my pdoc)

There are withdrawal effects from many psychotrophic meds, and I think we all need to decide for ourselves if the benefits outweigh the side effects.

prr fan - I am sorry that you are having a rough journey through this. I think cautionary tales as well as success stories are all valuable when each person is researching their treatments - as long as we realize that reactions and side effects vary widely.

I hope that this all gets easier on you!

fwiw - my experience (which has only been a few weeks thus far) is very different - I don't get ramped up on Adderall, I actually feel much calmer and it is a lot easier to focus, and conversely, a lot easier NOT to hyperfocus.

RecruitDir
02-07-09, 02:07 PM
Mee,

You may wish to try Wellbutrin for withdraw, it's milder lasts all day with the XL version, affects the same neurotransmitters as Adderall, via reuptake, so you'll have more Dopamine, easing withdraw. Wellbutrin is an Amphetimine analog, so it'll give you a milder form of the same stimulation and reduce your body's cravings. Although, I understand there is a withdraw when one stops the drug (WB)- I'd assume it has to be easier then Aderall withdraw. To raise your dopamine levels for the reuptake, eat plenty of protien.

prr_fan
02-07-09, 08:46 PM
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8019.php


Granted, that study was a two-year study and the OP is talking about 6 years.

My understanding of stimulant meds for ADD/ADHD treatment is that once you've found the most beneficial dose, it shouldn't need to be titrated up anymore? (per my pdoc)

There are withdrawal effects from many psychotrophic meds, and I think we all need to decide for ourselves if the benefits outweigh the side effects.

prr fan - I am sorry that you are having a rough journey through this. I think cautionary tales as well as success stories are all valuable when each person is researching their treatments - as long as we realize that reactions and side effects vary widely.

I hope that this all gets easier on you!

fwiw - my experience (which has only been a few weeks thus far) is very different - I don't get ramped up on Adderall, I actually feel much calmer and it is a lot easier to focus, and conversely, a lot easier NOT to hyperfocus.
I think you missed my point, I wanted a study that proved ADVERSE effects, not a study that said they were safe and effective. I think they are safe and effective and believe that most of the folks who report these adverse effects are off base. I am not having a rough time with anything otther than people who continue to deny themselves medication that has been proven time and time again to be effective, safe, and life changing.

SerenDipity
02-08-09, 09:04 PM
prr - Ah, gotcha.

I guess the fact that all the long term studies say they are safe is kinda telling, no? I'm sure some people *do* have adverse effects, but these meds have been lifesavers for so many, children and adults.

I can't take birth control pills because of the side effects - doesn't mean millions of women don't take them...and they do a good job of preventing pregnancy, too! I am just one of the outliers on the continuum.... :)

chartreuse
02-09-09, 05:01 PM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .



Everybody's situation is different, and I truly hope that the OP is doing/feeling better than when they originally started this thread.

But for me, none of the things mentioned above would be a surprise to me. Before starting Adderall, I DIDN'T have any energy. I COULDN'T get going in the morning, or at any other time. A massive dose of caffeine could help, temporarily, but not in the same way, and not nearly as well, as Adderall does. I just simply WASN'T functioning, at least not on any real or consistent level. And I was miserable almost all the time.

Even if it were illustrated that there could be serious adverse effects to the long-term use of this drug, I would not be inclined to stop taking it, because even knowing that the drug MIGHT be harmful, I would still know for sure that life without it was simply, for the most part, intolerable (which, BTW, was what led me to seek out a diagnosis in the first place.)

Saxman7
02-09-09, 05:43 PM
Everybody's situation is different, and I truly hope that the OP is doing/feeling better than when they originally started this thread.

But for me, none of the things mentioned above would be a surprise to me. Before starting Adderall, I DIDN'T have any energy. I COULDN'T get going in the morning, or at any other time. A massive dose of caffeine could help, temporarily, but not in the same way, and not nearly as well, as Adderall does. I just simply WASN'T functioning, at least not on any real or consistent level. And I was miserable almost all the time.

Even if it were illustrated that there could be serious adverse effects to the long-term use of this drug, I would not be inclined to stop taking it, because even knowing that the drug MIGHT be harmful, I would still know for sure that life without it was simply, for the most part, intolerable (which, BTW, was what led me to seek out a diagnosis in the first place.)

And this sums up exactly why this is so confusing, and so troubling an issue. I too was not functioning very well, often woke up cloudy, and unable to feel fully awake the entire day. Once diagnosed, and various drugs tried, Adderall seemed to be the most copacetic.

After using it for about ten years, from 60-80mgs/daily, I've discontinued usage, mainly because I felt it wasn't really helping me get things done (in fact, I've fallen further behind on everything), and I was experiencing some unwanted physical side-effects.

Initially I felt pretty good, more "in my body", less impatient, and just more mellow. I was sleeping more, and figured it was due to years of very little (sometimes no) sleep, something I seemed not to need much of.

However, after a few weeks or a month of being off, I began dragging all the time. I'd be up for a few hours, then just want to go back to bed, all day & night long. I'd take daytime "naps", then find myself overcome with fatigue at 8, 9, or 10 at night, and sleep, sometimes a few hours, occasionally through till the morning. Today, I got up about 8 (after falling out at 10pm), had breakfast, did a little at the computer, then back to bed at noon, sleeping till about 1:30, and hope to get through the day, but don't feel very awake....

I'm also more depressed, cry easily, and get that "what's the use" feeling frequently. I don't know if taking a small dose of it, now & then, might be good, and don't really want to be back to taking so much every day. Despite knowing that drugs alone won't overcome ADD, I guess the doctors (or administrators) at Kaiser have never gotten that information, as I've received nothing more than a "Rx check" every three months, for about ten minutes....

This is so frustrating, as I felt that once I had been diagnosed, the road to a more normal life was possible. Now, I'm not so sure about that.

Am I just feeling what I felt before going on the meds? If so, then while they helped some, it obviously wasn't enough, and so now what? I eat well, take vits, exercise, my job is my passion (music), and read lots of "self-help", uplifting books, and still feel like I'm no better off today than ten years ago...

livnlrgstplite
02-09-09, 07:26 PM
Hello all, I am currently about 5 days into my titration off of adderall XR/adderall. I was taking anywhere from 60-80 mg/day, and am down to 20 XR now. Honestly, the combination of exhaustion and dependence has been really rough on my body. Even though I am a seventeen year old male, 6'2 and 180 pounds, I feel like a ragdoll that has been tossed in front of a speeding train. I took most of the last week off of school, honestly something I wouldn't have been able to get away with if I weren't class president, and spent most of that time in a conglomerate of insomnia/hypersomnia/stomach cramps/vomitting on night 1/nightmares/sweats etc. I have been on stimulant medications of various sorts for the past 5 years, and have experienced great success and powerful failures. Their seems to be no rhyme or reason for why my medicine will work effectively one month, and fail totally the next. It would appear that I am one of the relative majority for whom stimulant medication is not an effective long term solution. Before people start taking my example as the anti-adderall gospel, please remember how many people are helped by these medications. I would love to speak to someone else (or multiple others) who is/are of a similiar ADD-type (able to skate by on intellect, tried medication and experienced both wonderful and awful effects, etc). Honestly, I have no idea who I am at this point - and that scares me the most. Will my girlfriend and I still be the same once I am unmedicated? Will my teachers have the same respect and affection for me if I am a clearly different student in the coming months? Will I be able to keep up with the rigors of the colleges I applied to if I am unmedicated? Sorry if this seems like a crazy, incoherent ramble, but I am just more than a little confused right now. Thanks for any input, and this forum is an awesome resource! Keep it real,
Ben

Your titration, reduction, schedule seems very very fast. Shouldn't you be going down in dosage over weekly or biweekly intervals. Going from 80mg to 20mg in just five days seems way to fast.

livnlrgstplite
02-09-09, 07:28 PM
Serendipity, you said it perfectly.

ADHDTigger
02-10-09, 01:24 PM
And this sums up exactly why this is so confusing, and so troubling an issue. I too was not functioning very well, often woke up cloudy, and unable to feel fully awake the entire day. Once diagnosed, and various drugs tried, Adderall seemed to be the most copacetic.

After using it for about ten years, from 60-80mgs/daily, I've discontinued usage, mainly because I felt it wasn't really helping me get things done (in fact, I've fallen further behind on everything), and I was experiencing some unwanted physical side-effects.

Initially I felt pretty good, more "in my body", less impatient, and just more mellow. I was sleeping more, and figured it was due to years of very little (sometimes no) sleep, something I seemed not to need much of.

However, after a few weeks or a month of being off, I began dragging all the time. I'd be up for a few hours, then just want to go back to bed, all day & night long. I'd take daytime "naps", then find myself overcome with fatigue at 8, 9, or 10 at night, and sleep, sometimes a few hours, occasionally through till the morning. Today, I got up about 8 (after falling out at 10pm), had breakfast, did a little at the computer, then back to bed at noon, sleeping till about 1:30, and hope to get through the day, but don't feel very awake....

I'm also more depressed, cry easily, and get that "what's the use" feeling frequently. I don't know if taking a small dose of it, now & then, might be good, and don't really want to be back to taking so much every day. Despite knowing that drugs alone won't overcome ADD, I guess the doctors (or administrators) at Kaiser have never gotten that information, as I've received nothing more than a "Rx check" every three months, for about ten minutes....

This is so frustrating, as I felt that once I had been diagnosed, the road to a more normal life was possible. Now, I'm not so sure about that.

Am I just feeling what I felt before going on the meds? If so, then while they helped some, it obviously wasn't enough, and so now what? I eat well, take vits, exercise, my job is my passion (music), and read lots of "self-help", uplifting books, and still feel like I'm no better off today than ten years ago...

It may be that you would benefit from a change in meds as opposed to discontinuing them all together. If you have discontinued because you no longer want to take medication, you may find some of the naturopathic approaches helpful to you. There are any number of good threads here that discuss those options.

I have heard of people who used a combination of the medication, naturopathic support, and coaching and were able to decrease and finally discontinue the stimulant over a period of years. The key was that they used the medication benefits to learn and reinforce necessary behaviors for coping in addition to supporting their bodies through nutrition, exercise, and needed supplements.

Personally, I don't think that most docs take a long range view of treating ADHD. They just write a scrip and assume that we will go looking for better information.

ozchris
02-11-09, 10:20 PM
The withdrawal from stimulants like adderall, dex and ritalin can be pretty unpleasant, even just from therapeutic doses.

I'm surprised more docs. don't know about this. I was lucky and my psychiatrist told me about the 'discontinuation syndrome'. A good way to lesson the effects is to gradually reduce your dose, over a month or so instead of stopping completely.

y00ch
03-06-09, 04:57 AM
Jesus Christ! Thank you sooo much for sharing this with me. I had a sneaking suspicion that these drugs were addictive. After all...amphetamines. I wish u luck and I believe u can do it. U are proof that big Pharma is out to rob ur wallet and nohing else. I was almost going to take Vyvanse but said no because I saw an inreadible epiphanic paralell to a sitiuation when I used to buy pot from a drug dealer. It was like my doc had suddenly turned into a pill pusher. He even said " You can do anything on this stuff." This guy is increadibly accredited too. UCSF graduate and one the pioneers in research. Doesn't matter though. My experiences have taught me well and I'm grateful for every day.

Best to you and keep us updated!

ozchris
03-06-09, 08:35 AM
Oops. Didn't realise I had replied to this thread :)


-delete-

Kunga Dorji
03-06-09, 08:53 AM
The withdrawal from stimulants like adderall, dex and ritalin can be pretty unpleasant, even just from therapeutic doses.

I'm surprised more docs. don't know about this. I was lucky and my psychiatrist told me about the 'discontinuation syndrome'. A good way to lesson the effects is to gradually reduce your dose, over a month or so instead of stopping completely.

I don't know about this. I withdraw every night. If I dont - I dont sleep.
I usually start my doses at 6 amand finish late afternoon ( dex - not adderall).
The crunch comes If I have to stay up late to do my tax. I can pull through with something conversational long after my wife has given me up as a dead loss ( she knows exactly when my dex tank is running dry)- but I cannot number crunch without it- not without an unacceptable number of errors.
Seeing as I must wait till the kids are in bed before I start- the outcome is a bad night's sleep.
As for dose- at one point I felt almost the more the merrier. Now - 2tabs at a time is about right- and dont take more till I start to feel befuddled- 3-7 hours depending on circumstances. To much gives me a dry mouth and tremor and does not contribute to my day.
I would have pretty desparate ( and keen to be divorced) to stop taking it though. I still remember how bad I was before treatment.

ozchris
03-06-09, 09:07 AM
Stimulants work really well for treating my ADD symptoms as well. I did develop some side effects over time though. I'm giving them a break for now but it's different for everyone. I've found straterra works pretty good for me.

I can understand some people can't afford to stop their treatment because work or study or wife etc. :)

It's true that most of the med. is out of your system every night. It's not really a typical withdrawal people would think of.

It's more like your brain is adapted to this certain mix of neurotransmitter levels and chemicals and when you change that quickly, it goes 'huh?'. It can just take a little while for things to balance out. I doubt the existence of long term negative effects from therapeutic doses of the common stimulants.

DarkCode
03-06-09, 04:59 PM
I used to abuse Adderall taking doses like 40-80mg+ a day. I wasn't taking it medicinally, that's for damn sure.

But now, I might be prescribed 40mg a day, but I'm only taking 10mg, and at most 20mg (requires a rational justification for me to take more than 10mg). I've found that my tolerance hasn't been going up except VERY minimally. I'm talking about somehow, after taking all those high doses, I got to taking one of the lowest possible doses (I take half a pill and it works ALL day), and it surprises the hell out of me all the time. I take days off all the time unexpectedly. I don't really see any withdrawal side-effects like the fatigue, the excessive hunger, etc, I just feel the same way I did the day before, but not as calm - I have more energy off the drugs than on them sometimes.

Its hard to explain, but when I went from the mindset that I was taking the drug to solve some problems, to now taking it to treat a condition, my whole conscious interpretation of my usage patterns shifted. I became not a slave the drug, though, I do understand I'm going to need to take these for some time (which is why I decided against going into the military to pay for Law School - though, I still might do that in 3 years when I'm done with my undergrad); instead, I've become a power over them. I control my dosage, my doctor doesn't. Well, sure, if he wants to have me on 40mg a day, I'll let him. There's nothing bad about having extra's in case some situation like this summer comes up (where I will be home 3 months and not see my usual doctor - only gives me 2 months of prescriptions at a time). If I want to take a lower dose, I'm more than capable of making that decision. Its not like I'm taking antibiotics, or antivirals, or something, where you need to take a specified dose at specified times. This is a psychoactive drug that treats a neurological condition. But if I see the desired effects with a lower dose, why take anything more that would just leave me feeling uncomfortable - socially, etc being over stimulated.

Withdrawal when I was abusing the drug was the worst. I hated it, but I loved it just as much. I was so hungry, but I was like bed ridden. I couldn't do anything, I just was so ****ing tired even with a full night's rest. I'd be asleep almost all day, and the rest of the time I'd be thinking about sleeping, or eating. Yes, there is depression symptoms during the withdrawal. But it's normal. Yes, there is the understanding that your reliant on the drug, that too is normal. Withdrawal's are a fact of taking any psychoactive drug. When its not there anymore, your not that person you were on it. You got used to that person, and it's you today, so you miss it. If you come to understand that being on the drug is just a way of structuring the way you are off it, you come to realize your not powerless. Your in complete control.

I've been through every stage of abuse for this drug (albeit, I never injected, or any of that crap, but I've snorted them before, and I've taken extremely excessive doses before due to tolerance). I've witnessed my neurons start feeling depleted because of excessive sleep deprivation, poor nutrition, etc. But, I'm better because of it. I know all the ins and outs of this drug, and in learning such, I've come to respect it more than ever. There's something about your mindset that makes a huge difference when taking amphetamines. You need to think of the taking the drug as the least of your day's concerns. You need to think of them as the smallest factor in your day to getting things done. You gotta attribute a lot of their effects to other things, namely, your own conscious or subconscious decisions to do things a certain way, at a certain time, and so on and so forth. I see when I take amphetamines as that little bit of energy, that pick-up, but I don't drink caffeine anymore. Its essentially like me drinking a cup of coffee in the morning - that's how I see the drug today, and that's how I've seen it everyday since I started taking it medicinally last August.

The problem starts when you start thinking you NEED it to do something. That's what my problem was a long time ago. I thought I couldn't take a test, do a paper, go out, etc, etc, without it. It had to be in my system, working, for me to do anything. But now, it doesn't. Its only a small part of who I am now. I can do anything without it, and I do. But when you start thinking you can't do everything, that you can do somethings, but not all, its where the problem starts. You need to see being off the drug as you being just as capable on it. You need to tell yourself that the only difference between the medicated and non-medicated versions of yourself is that one likes to do work, and the other doesn't but they are both capable of doing that work. It might take more time, it might be more of a pain in the butt, but by God, your still able to do the work. You understand what I'm saying?

Anyways, I wrote this before taking my 10mg today. I take half a Core Pharma 20mg pill usually around the time I wake up if I got school, otherwise later in the day if I don't got class (if I have class, I usually went to bed really late the night before and I'm waking up after 6-7 hours of sleep only so I really want to stay in bed). My 10mg dose works all day, and even longer sometimes than I want it to. It will be 12 hours before I stop feeling all the effects of the drug. 12 hours, its supposed to last only 4. But for me, because of my mindset and my tolerance reducing because I told myself all I needed was 10mg (not 40-80+ anymore) and sticking to that 10mg only, it works all day, and does its job, without me needing to increase my dose. The justification for me only needing 10mg was that it did exactly what it was supposed to at that dose, and I felt only the effects I'm supposed to (clarity of mind, calmness, etc) so in effect anything more was just excessive. Everyone's different, but the lowest possible dose and sticking to it, (even if you think its not working at that dose anymore because of tolerance) is what people need to remember. If people increase their dose because they think they need to know its working from feeling it's effects, then they are wrong. You don't need to feel anything but calm, and clear headed when on the drug. You need to just be able to think, to do whatever. You don't need to be able to dodge bullets because your reflexes are so fast due to the drug. You just need to be feeling the way you want to feel - the normal version of you, nothing more, nothing less. There's only 1 you, don't let anyone else tell you that you need a dose increase because you think its not working anymore. Evaluate what you consider it "working" then go back to why you think you need a dose increase. You might find something surprising.

Para-gone
03-07-09, 03:38 PM
Great post.

Still, it seems that people lack of knowledge here. ADHD seems to be taken too seriously as a disorder, and that amphetamines where developed as an universal treatment the same day this variation in humans - which is now called ADHD - developed. You can never say that ADHD medications are safe, nor would I never give it to my children before high school. With experiences comes knowledge, drugging children so that they can focus in school is in my opinion a deprivation of our biological beauty. It is not like children with ADHD are unable to learn, just make them aware that they might have a harder time. Also one should admit to oneself that medication on behalf of ADHD isn't any better than using other drugs for pleasure, relief and satisfaction. If you at this moment can't tell yourself that you would never consume a single pill you are dependent upon it, and have developed a kind of addiction, with the thought that you always have the option of getting high aka "treating your disorder". THESE PILLS ARE POISON. But that does'nt mean that you don't have the option to take it, and manage to live a satisfying life. Drugs do wonders and can elevate your mind to other dimension you cannot percieve, or enhance performance. Just don't dumb down the effects and your possible carving for it. Amphetamine, cocain and heroin are the hard street drugs whom addicts dwell upon - central-stimuly for ADHD is just an other formula of cocain and amphs in lower doses named by pharmaceuticals in a manner that people wont recognize.

In the end people aren't very different, the coincidences that take action and knowledge we gather through our life is what sets us apart. Don't buy what you are told by the authorities. You can never trust them, nor the scientifical studies telling you the drug is safe, while these are often done by the company or other connections they might have. People have died from these medications, without overdoing them. Just get the facts, listen, read, use your frigging brain, and make yourself a mindset. And you can see through much more! Ops, I'm not sure where I'm going. And holy mother, this computer fan needs som hard beating for disturbing me! HADEOUKEN

prr_fan
03-07-09, 07:57 PM
Para-gone YOUR lack of any substantial scientific data to back anything up you are saying is proof enough for me to make most of your views irrelevant and not worthy of a response. however, in this writers opinion I must respond and state the facts. I know by your post that you for whatever reason feel that ADHD isn't a "real" disorder. Give me a scientific citation to prove your point and I can provide you with volumes that say it is a real condition. So you would deny your child a medication that will help them? What is your justification that it is OK for a high school student, but not for a 7 year old? You DO NOT BECOME addicted to any of the ADHD medications if you are taking a dose within the prescribing guidlines. You would have to consume a lot higher dose to create an addiction. Comparing street drugs to medically prescribed medications shows your sheer ignorance. The medication is not a poison when taken within the prescribing limits. There have been deaths attributed to the medications. However, those deaths were almost all caused by an individual taking the medication that was contraindicated or overdoses. After almost half a century of these medications being used and millions of prescriptions the number of deaths fail to compare to the number of folks who can now lead productive lives.

kontemplation
03-08-09, 09:02 PM
perhaps a lower dosage could be both effective without a producing a *high* feeling?

my old doctor had me on 10-15mg of adderall (non xr) a day for a year and a half until i stopped taking it cold turkey for about 6 months since i stopped going to school due to family business problems. he said the reason for the daily usage is consistency... (even though i'd forget to take it quite often). i never understood why i needed to take it daily though..

i just recently moved to southern california and got a new doctor. my new doctor told me i should only take it when needed.. like when i'm attending school or studying or working on something important at work.. and on the weekends i shouldn't take it if i didn't need to. i think my new doctor has it right... and hopefully i don't get to a point where i NEED it to function (i sleep a lot and most likely i'll go back to sleeping a lil more if i stopped and being a bit more forgetful)

in any case, the medication calms me down to the point where i can think clearly and get everything organized. i'll stick with tasks until they're mostly finished. i dunno if you can call that euphoria but i'm sure a higher dosage would prolly get anyone high. i even stopped drinking coffee as i get an uncomfortable feeling (anxiety?) when i drink coffee whilst on my medication.

most people talk about crashes when the drug wears off. i actually welcome that as it has helped my sleeping pattern immensely. before adderall, i'd be a night owl of sorts. now, my medication lasts until about dinnertime or sometime before midnight where i can actually slip in to bed and fall asleep. even though i feel exhausted by the end of the day when the medication wears out, i get to sleep early enough that i can wake up in the morning when it's time for school... instead of napping throughout the day and staying up all night doing whatever random things that pop into my head.

edit: realized i didn't really get to the point of what i was trying to say....
so anyways, since you have been on the meds for so long, perhaps it may be wise to start lowering the dosage rather than eliminating cold turkey from your daily routine. whatever withdrawals or changes in mood/personality/attention you may have, it would be more gradual and you would be in control. ask the doctor for smaller sized pills or even the IR version of adderall so you can start pyramiding down your medication and customizing the dosage to fit your needs. you should already be familiar to how your body reacts to the medication. and if you can handle a lower dosage totally go for it! if that dosage is too low, you could always take an additional 5mg or something. if there are days that you're is feeling worse, you can just up the dosage by another 5+mgs. just an idea to get you off the meds. i'm not a doctor, but perhaps you can bring that idea up to your care provider. i was fortunate enough to find a doctor that was willing to work with how i felt about the drugs. initially i started with 6 months of psychotherapy twice a month...until i finally decided i wanted to try medication.

good luck to you!

kontemplation
03-08-09, 09:26 PM
i agree with darkcode in that you should know how your body reacts to the drug and you should only take enough so that it covers your add/adhd symptoms for you to be able to function productively. i've been fortunate to have a doctor that had let me know that ultimately i control my medication since i know how it affects me. hell, i started with 5mg's the first month i decided i'd want to try out medication when i was initially diagnosed, and following the first month went up to 10mg and stayed with 10mg/day for the next year and a half. i took a 6month break from it since i had to put my school on hold and go back up to seattle to help my mother with her business.. and i didn't feel the need for it at all. (although i went to my normal self of taking multiple naps throughout the day and having an inconsistent sleep schedule..) i am now back on a 10-15mg/day schedule and my new doctor even says i can skip weekends if i don't feel i need it!

my doctor has me in control of my meds. i can even take an additional 5mg in the middle of the day when i feel i need to be active longer (since i crashed early in the evening) for studying, etc.

eche05
03-08-09, 10:27 PM
Those who quite cold turkey are much more likely to relapse. I suggest not doing so :)

A trick that might alleviate some of the withdraw symptoms is the consumption of L-Tyrosine. It's the precursor to L-DOPA (dihydroxy-levo-phenylalanine) which crosses the BBB and is converted into dopamine.

Best of luck, eche05

elizabethbdn
03-08-09, 11:57 PM
Hi, I have been on adderall about 120 mg for about 7 years. I am to the point where it makes me very tired and I am asking my pdoc about it tuesday. I have had mass cavaties due to the affect of adderall although I use dry mouth toothpaste and mouth rinse. I know if I did quit the withdrawl would be so gnarly, I went on a meds break about 4 months ago and it was absolute hell. I wish I got a kick out of adderall but no such luck it just makes me sleepy. !!!!!!!

mhubbard24
03-09-09, 12:25 PM
Common theme here seems to be that it affect people differently....

I will add for me that I have been on Adderall XR 30mg for almost 2 years now, started at 10 then 20, then 30. From day one and even today I still get the "high" feeling and it is almost as intense as the first day. Some days are more so than others but the "high" has not worn off like people said it would. I normally do not take it on weekends or vacations and it seems to work very well in keeping my thoghts organized and tasks in check.

mijahe
03-09-09, 07:46 PM
Moderator Note:
Can I take this opportunity to mention to members that this site is governed by some guidelines (http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75) which helps keep it a sane place, where members can freely support each other.

Please keep this, (newly revitalized), thread on track, and avoid personal attacks. Flaming helps no one.

meadd823
03-10-09, 05:25 AM
The withdrawal from stimulants like adderall, dex and ritalin can be pretty unpleasant, even just from therapeutic doses.

I'm surprised more docs. don't know about this. I was lucky and my psychiatrist told me about the 'discontinuation syndrome'. A good way to lesson the effects is to gradually reduce your dose, over a month or so instead of stopping completely

Are you stopping your medication Chris or did ya think Mijahe here was board and needed a controversial thread in his section ???

I forget to take this oh so addicting medication all the time - had to plan for six months to quit smoking. Gee whiz I never forgot to light up a cigarette that is sold over the counter but I forget to take this schedule 2 adderall all the time.

SOME experience with draws, Some do not!!!

Of coarse one may notice a difference when they quit taking ADD medication Why take medications that don't do any thing - That would be silly

When most quit taking ADD medications a decent percentage will space out, lack the ability to concentrate or shut up many feel irritated, dazed antsy or over whelmed umm that would be the ADD returning. Medication is a part of some people's ADD treatment but it doesn't cure ADD like antibiotics cure syphilis.




Amphetamine, cocain and heroin are the hard street drugs whom addicts dwell upon - central-stimuly for ADHD is just an other formula of cocain and amphs in lower doses named by pharmaceuticals in a manner that people wont recognize.



You failed to mention that caffeine is also in the same classification as ADD medications - they are all CNS stimulants To top that off you showed utter medical ignorance by listing heroin which is an opioid. I guess medical savvy and stating the entire truth would water down your scare tactic wouldn't it??






With experiences comes knowledge, drugging children so that they can focus in school is in my opinion a deprivation of our biological beauty.

Here is an idea Use your energy to change the darn school system so there is no need to medicate children. This would be a more productive use of your time and energy than posting half baked dogma.




It is not like children with ADHD are unable to learn, just make them aware that they might have a harder time.

Here is a news flash - medications doesn't make it easier for me to learn. I can learn and wiggle at the same time - I take medication so other people can learn and teach Apparently they have a problem with their ability to focus while I do jumping jacking in math class, during a sermon or a funeral





THESE PILLS ARE POISON.

Yeah like that is news Every thing on the planet these days is poison - The air is poison the food is full of toxins as is the water - So it seems like I may be some form of genetic mutation because I have lived a long time for some one who is being poisoned by every thing I eat, drink or breathe.

I am a genetic mutation capable of ingesting poison or all these poison claims are crap. . . Pick which ever is the most likely in your world.




But that does'nt mean that you don't have the option to take it, and manage to live a satisfying life

So if I quit taking medication I am going to live a satisfying life -by joining communities for conditions that I do not think exist. . .:confused: This is as bad as the post where some one claimed to have a cure for ADD the only side effect being it would make me stupid. . . . :rolleyes:

I think I will keep the ADD and the pills because the toxins in the pills apparently make me intelligent enough to stay off forums for alien abductions and Elvis sightings.:D

PS


Please tell the mother ship,the drama team or whom ever it may concern that we here at ADDF would like some new anti-ADD material please. Oh and can you put in a request for some new conspiracy theories I think I have read and refuted all the ones out now - Spicier plots would be nice perhaps throw in some steamy sex scenes???

clgoody
03-13-09, 07:09 AM
Here is a news flash - medications doesn't make it easier for me to learn. I can learn and wiggle at the same time - I take medication so other people can learn and teach Apparently they have a problem with their ability to focus while I do jumping jacking in math class, during a sermon or a funeral
That was awesome.

kiosk
03-13-09, 08:51 AM
interesting thread....I would usually stay out of these because most of the time ones message is not fully understood amongst the flaming but what heck why not take the risk....

Now I am just noting my observations here based on my experience and thorough reading on these drugs. I am no medical expert but am no idiot either so am inclined to say is an "educated" observation.

I've been on some sort of Adderall variance, started with IR, the XR, the more IR now Vyvanse.

I have no strong preference or dislike for amphetamine. I have noticed people are either very attached to it where they are defensive about its use or others which see it as the worst chemical developed by man. I am in neither of those and I've found only few which are on my same stance.

I do believe amphetamine helps tremendously for my ADD, as I have noticed very positive changes in my lifestyle due to removal of "brain clutter" and ability to focus and remove useless "worry" from conflicting thought patterns.

However as any drug it has its downside, particularly the problem being a stimulant. It always seemed conunterintuitive to me that a stimulant would help with attention disorder, how could that be?? well I know that answer now but it doesnt change the fact one bit that any stimulant puts stress on your body, and running around stimulated all day has long term health effects, there is no argument there and I dont care who you are or how many medical degrees you have. This is my main concern with the drug, it does work yes, but because it is a stimulant is just a broad range treatment of the symptoms of ADD and not the cause, unfortunately such drug doesnt exist yet but it may soon one day.

So I take it, I am not particularly thrilled about it, it does help my condition but unlike some have noted I believe its withdrawal effect is much more than just simply "your ADD coming back" wether is cold turkey or slow withdraw.

I also dont believe is as addicting and evil as some put it. millions are addicted to caffeine and need it to function daily and dont even know about it, neither do they know caffeine is a poison develoedp by the plant itself for self-defense.

so thats it , I take it, it works, but wish I wouldnt have to because one way or another is impacting my health long term. I dont love it or hate it, and look forward the day we come up with something that is better...am sure it will come

purerealm
03-17-09, 08:07 PM
Wow I was just browsing through this thread because I was interested to see if anyone else has had the same life changing experienced from adderall as I had, and what do you know, I myself had posted in here... 5 years ago when I first started taking adderall.

I just want to report how I'm currently doing and see if anyone can relate. I haven't been doing so well, I have no passion for life, simple pleasures in the past for me seem to require too much cognitive effort/energy.

Really simple things, like reading posts on this forum. Or recreational reading. This used to be my favorite pasttime, when I'd become enthralled with adventure/scifi novels and wouldn't be able to put it down until I was finished with it. Now I'll read about half a page and become bored with it. I can read a few more pages after that but I might become very fatigued in which case I'll have to do something else after about 5 pages.

Same with socializing, my friends all tell me that I never talk anymore, and for the most part this is true. I've lost interest in hanging out with my friends, but I don't know what to do with myself when I am at home either.

hollywood
03-18-09, 12:09 AM
interesting replies. very informative. Keep a low dose seems to be key

Wisefolly
03-18-09, 06:11 PM
Wow I was just browsing through this thread because I was interested to see if anyone else has had the same life changing experienced from adderall as I had, and what do you know, I myself had posted in here... 5 years ago when I first started taking adderall.

I just want to report how I'm currently doing and see if anyone can relate. I haven't been doing so well, I have no passion for life, simple pleasures in the past for me seem to require too much cognitive effort/energy.

Really simple things, like reading posts on this forum. Or recreational reading. This used to be my favorite pasttime, when I'd become enthralled with adventure/scifi novels and wouldn't be able to put it down until I was finished with it. Now I'll read about half a page and become bored with it. I can read a few more pages after that but I might become very fatigued in which case I'll have to do something else after about 5 pages.

Same with socializing, my friends all tell me that I never talk anymore, and for the most part this is true. I've lost interest in hanging out with my friends, but I don't know what to do with myself when I am at home either.

Sorry, this is slightly OT, but was this a progressive thing for you, or is it recent? You should probably talk to your doctor about this. It sounds like depression to me, but I am not a psychologist (just someone who has been through it). This may not have anything to do with the Adderall, but then again, it might. I don't know, and I do wonder sometimes if it plays into my depression at all. (The medication, not the ADD; I know the ADD affects the depression.)

hollywood
03-19-09, 10:20 AM
I think that depression does come into play alot of times after treatment. I think it's because you see how much better things have gotten and then alot of times you realize what your like off meds and it goes round and round in your head. It can be malproductive, sometimes and often when titrating up it can be too due to overthinking negative things when your not involved in work that you enjoy , overtime the negative thoughts will reign over and cause depression. I recommend titrating your dose down all the way down to your starting dose for a week or two. It's painful at first but it will give you more insight as to what is going on in your life and your treatment. I scaled all the down from a large dose, it wasn't that the dose wasn't needed but I do believe it taxed and fatigued my body. Now that I'm not tired , I can focus but I do realize my job annoys me. I'm not sure if it's a low grade depression but it's very possibe as sometimes those of us with adhd will have a great deal of self doubt and not believe that we can make sucessful choices and live the life we desire. Anyways , I'd go back to baseline and then scientifically re work your situation . At that point, you will know if you operate better with a low dose, or if it was not dose dependent and you feel a bit depressed. Its fairly normal to develop depression along with adhd treatment because many times the social support is many times lacking. Stand up for yourself and attack the problem with reason and keep emotion based thoughts at bay.

Wisefolly
03-19-09, 10:52 AM
Whatever you do, I wouldn't titrate your dose down without your doctor. Otherwise, you could make the depression worse, if you have it. If you do decide to lower the dose your doctor may put you on Wellbutrin to avoid having you go into a deeper depression.

I tend to get hypersomnolent (super sleepy) and go into a depression when I go off my meds. (I only know because I have run out of them due to forgetting to make my next appointment and being busy, etc.)

KFC in CA
03-19-09, 12:30 PM
chameleon
Hard to believe your Dr would put you on this drug and not tell you that it is addictive . Benzodiazepines*are the most addictive substances on the earth*. Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time.


(NOTE: Links have been removed by moderator for the purposes of promoting safety and adherence to forum regulations.-KJ/C)

Couple comments...

There are many studies showing that when morphine is used for pain management, it can be non-addictive, particularly for those who seek pain alleviation and don't want the high. The same holds for pain pills.

Klonopin is used very successfully at the same dose for many years by many seeking to reduce anxiety, deal with residual bipolar symptoms, as a seizure prophylaxis, and other purposes.

Stimulants also are successfully used by many w/o dose increasing.

Slow discontinuation of any head med typically does not lead to withdrawals IF the slow discontinuation is slow enough.

The commonality shared in not becoming addicted to addictive drugs is not seeking a high but instead seeking symptom alleviation. My guess is that it goes a little further - wanting symptom alleviation while NOT wanting the high side effect. That is what the high is, a side effect. When someone confuses the high as symbolizing efficacy, it is easy to believe more of the med is needed when the side effect wears off. Unfortunately, doctors don't always clearly explain this to patients. Unfortunately, some patients disregard the doctor on this. Unfortunately, some patients are after the high more than the actual symptom alleviation, or want it as much. That is what leads to addiction.

Going cold turkey off of any head med is going to make you feel like crap for awhile whether it is an addictive med or not. General rule of thumb is to go off no faster than you went on. For those who start over 10mg of Adderall (or equivalent) exercise a little common sense and step down weekly and include a period at 10mg and then 5mg. If one step down is terrible, go back up to the last dose decrease for a few more days, then decrease again.

Wisefolly
03-19-09, 12:58 PM
Yeah, I didn't step down when I did it because I accidentally ran out. Running out of your meds doesn't make it easier to remember to do what I already forgot... make a doctor's appointment! :P

It was a month of hypersomnolent depressive icky-ness. Lovely. Always, repeat, ALWAYS talk to your doctor if you plan to go off the meds. I was only on 20mg IR once per day, and I still had that reaction.

hollywood
03-19-09, 01:05 PM
All I can say is this, I was on a large dosage of concerta for a long time. I was after no high, but as time went on I became a bit tired .... My mornings were atrocious until about an hour or so after my medication kicked in. It was my belief that the time release large dose was keeping me up a bit past my needed bedtime and over time robbing me of needed sleep. This in my mind would have a carry over effect of masking more adhd symptoms when the real problem was hangover sleepiness over time. Now, I've scaled down like 40mg a day over the last week. I felt a bit tired initially but I have absolutely no withdraws. If anything I can feel my adhd symptoms come on and now atleast I know what is going on. Lately without the larger time released dosage I have been sleeping better, actually much better and with my new regiment "ir dosing" I have been nixing and cutting doses left and right to find out just what is going on... If I've found one thing out thats a certainty it's that I in no way shape or form look for any high off my meds and that is something to smile about. All I've ever looked for even regarding the high dose, and this is only because I'm a high dose responder and metabolize fast is symptom control . I do know the difference, yet even at a much smaller dose I can still function and get things done even if I am way more scattered. [Edited by Moderator.] It is my belief that over time once I sleep well for a period of weeks consistently that I will feel far better and hopefully need far less meds. I try and do the most I can on my own, but when I cannot then I use the ir dose at that time of day. This approach over time keeps dosing low and keeps tolerance from growing. Some days you need less stimulation than others and some days your adhd will be more active on these days, but rest assured your body is resting and the receptors and getting the break they need.. This is a successful protocol and approach.

KillZone
03-20-09, 08:45 PM
Years ago I tried speed, cocaine, and it had no effect on me. Everyone else was having a merry old time, but I never got any effect from it. Recently I found out that was because I am ADHD,

So not true! I hate this lie. ADHD has no impact on people and taking certain drugs it does the same effect on others as it would on us that have ADHD. What you have is a natural high tolerance. Trust me I know all about the human mind and drugs I do my homework. I have ADHD and get a pretty big euphoria but it makes me want to get stuff done and makes me social. All's ADHD is a lack of dopamine (the feel good drug) it causes more productivity and thats what ADD/ADHD people lack. I would wait until your son is older like 15 or so before he takes something like adderall. It's something you as the taker of adderall to know what's going on. BTW I have freinds that don't have ADHD/ADD and it does the same to them as it does to me, and I have ADHD.

KillZone
03-21-09, 12:09 AM
This is dangerous advice for some people. It definitely depends on the person, the type of medication, and how they respond to that medication. I certainly wasn't getting any high off of my adderall, but I was still hypersomnolent and very VERY depressed for over a month after I stopped taking the medicine. Proceed with caution, and don't take medical advice from non-doctors.

Did you immediately quit? Your supposed to cut it down slowly until nothing. This is why I hate pharms. They tell you oh you'll be ok but once your off this your going to be depressed so take this. No! But you shouldn't have been depressed if you cut back slowly. If you do get depressed don't buy into anything they give you. Some people arne't going to like this but if you can. Get a medical license for Cannabis for the depression, because their are no side effects and their is no withdrawel.

Wisefolly
03-21-09, 01:09 AM
Did you immediately quit? Your supposed to cut it down slowly until nothing. This is why I hate pharms. They tell you oh you'll be ok but once your off this your going to be depressed so take this. No! But you shouldn't have been depressed if you cut back slowly. If you do get depressed don't buy into anything they give you. Some people arne't going to like this but if you can. Get a medical license for Cannabis for the depression, because their are no side effects and their is no withdrawel.

*sigh* I immediately quit, but not on purpose. I just forgot to make my doctor's appointment... for like a month. I was also under a lot of stress at work. I'm already on Wellbutrin, and I plan to get off it someday. I'm on the lowest dosage. Will be treated for sleep apnea soon, I hope. Depression meds really do help some people. They help me. I used to go off it in the summers. Now I'm afraid to though, because we had a really dark and rainy spring/summer a few years ago, and I was a mess. Eventually, I'll go off in the summers again. Then I will go off all year. Already started taking vitamin D in the winter. I will do this all under a doctor's care, and I'm looking for a more understanding psyciatrist. I found one that looks promising... uses supplements, herbs, meditation, exercise and other interventions when possible, but also isn't completely opposed to the meds. Appointment is sometime in April.

jonquiljo
03-21-09, 06:20 AM
All medicines are a bit of good and bad. Stimulants, like Adderall are no different. It's a question of taking your own judgment into your own hands and deciding if whether the quality of life that Adderall gives you is worth the potential adverse side effects. So, its really not much different than any medication.

And don't expect your psychiatrist to be of any assistance. This is a decison you need to make armed with the facts.

I will say the following, however:

Take as little of any medication to achieve the desired effect. Any more is really a waste of time and counterproductive.

Drinking large amounts or water when taking stimulants such as Adderal is essential. I drink 8L a day. Yes, initially you will **** a lot, but your body adapts. It keeps your blood prssure down, and your system balanced against the diuretic effect of Adderall.

Look at this as a long term endeavor. It is. Trust me, you can ruin your life and career with the inability to focus. I know - as I have. So you need to find a way to deal with it.

Adderall, though found later in life ofr me, has saved me in som many ways. If it takes a few years off my life - so be it. I'd normally spend that time "trying to get it together". But I don't think its serious as that. Keep fit, exercise a lot, drink lots of water and don't overdo caffeine to make up the difference.

Imnapl
08-24-09, 11:43 PM
So not true! I hate this lie. ADHD has no impact on people and taking certain drugs it does the same effect on others as it would on us that have ADHD.In other words, not everyone has exactly the same reaction to drugs or medication.

rajb1037
08-25-09, 10:38 PM
No offense, but a lot of the posts in this thread are examples of someone taking a medication for the wrong reasons.

I mean, seriously...? Taking it FOR energy? You realize this medication is intended to treat those who have problems with focus/inattention and hyperactivity, right? Nowhere in the prescribing information or indications does it say to use Adderall to give you energy or make you feel good. It isn't an energy drink. Just saying "I take an anti-hyperactivity medication to make me hyper" should make you realize that you're doing something wrong.

My productivity comes from being able to focus on one thing (well, more or less) long enough to actually finish it. My friends and family can spot exactly when my medication is wearing off because I start bouncing off the walls with restlessness and start losing focus halfway through something before jumping to something else. It doesn't motivate me to do anything or help me get up in the morning, it helps me sit my *** down and focus my existing motivation to specific tasks.

And I haven't ever needed an increase in dosage. In fact, the longer I've been on it, the LESS I've needed for the same effect. I worked in the psych field for years, and I've seen a lot of junkies in general. How many addicts have you come across who have a heart rate of 80, a blood pressure of 90/60, and an endless supply patience while they are high? Because that's me while I'm "high" on my medication.

And I have never, ever felt any sort of euphoria from it. I actually can't stand anything that makes me jittery at all. I haven't had any caffeine whatsoever (not even chocolate) in over a decade, just to avoid that sort of feeling. When you add that to restlessness, it's just... ugh. No, thank you.

Also, as a side note, Dopamine is not the "feel good" neurotransmitter. Serotonin is most responsible for that in the brain, epinephrine/norepinephrine in both body and mind. Dopamine has to do with brain activity. Too little and you'll end up scatter-brained, too much and you'll end up with things like Schizophrenia (anti-psychotics specifically reduce Dopamine).

A schizophrenic is obviously not someone who is high. It's someone who is seeing/believing/hearing/feeling things that are not really there because their brain has way too much going on. They see things because their brain sends the exact same signals that it would have if they had really seen those things.

ADHD is the opposite. We don't have enough of the stuff to form and hold thoughts and get them from one part of the brain to another.

It makes us inattentive. We get to the store and forget why we went there. We start talking about one thing, go off on a tangent, then go off on a tangent of that tangent, and then get upset because we can't remember what the wonderful story was that we were telling.

It also makes us hyperactive. Our brains are lacking stimulation, and that expresses mostly as restlessness (hyperactivity is just a symptom of that restlessness). We feel like there is something we need to do. Something urgent. But we can't remember what it is or why we're supposed to do it. We sit down to watch TV, but no.. that's not what we want to do. We step outside, but no.. that isn't where we want to go. We sit down to write an email, but no.. that's not what we should be doing. So we jump from thing to thing to thing - with building agitation - because nothing feels quite "right" and we can't find anything that does. That's hyperactivity.

Lack of motivation, needing energy, wanting a kick, getting euphoria.. none of these things has anything to do with ADHD and are not reasons anyone should ever take the medication. Please don't blame the medication for improper usage of it. I'm not saying anyone intentionally abused the medication, but they obviously took it without realizing exactly what it was and was not for.

I just realized that this post is entirely too long considering the forum I'm posting to.

crazymutha
08-25-09, 11:09 PM
I was on ritalin 12-13 years straight (age 5-18).

I was on Adderall on and off for 4 years (2005-2008).

I went through a bad time (life issues, gluten intolerance, infectious mono) and quit the meds.

During a specific season of life (when the only illness I had was the gluten intolerance, which was undiagnosed at the time) I thought the adderall was the problem and I quit it cold turkey. I felt terrible almost a year later.

I do not blame the medicine, in my case. I am actually going to my doc on Thrus for some more treatment (possibly something different).

peace

KillZone
08-26-09, 12:49 AM
No offense, but a lot of the posts in this thread are examples of someone taking a medication for the wrong reasons.

I mean, seriously...? Taking it FOR energy? You realize this medication is intended to treat those who have problems with focus/inattention and hyperactivity, right? Nowhere in the prescribing information or indications does it say to use Adderall to give you energy or make you feel good. It isn't an energy drink. Just saying "I take an anti-hyperactivity medication to make me hyper" should make you realize that you're doing something wrong.

My productivity comes from being able to focus on one thing (well, more or less) long enough to actually finish it. My friends and family can spot exactly when my medication is wearing off because I start bouncing off the walls with restlessness and start losing focus halfway through something before jumping to something else. It doesn't motivate me to do anything or help me get up in the morning, it helps me sit my *** down and focus my existing motivation to specific tasks.

And I haven't ever needed an increase in dosage. In fact, the longer I've been on it, the LESS I've needed for the same effect. I worked in the psych field for years, and I've seen a lot of junkies in general. How many addicts have you come across who have a heart rate of 80, a blood pressure of 90/60, and an endless supply patience while they are high? Because that's me while I'm "high" on my medication.

And I have never, ever felt any sort of euphoria from it. I actually can't stand anything that makes me jittery at all. I haven't had any caffeine whatsoever (not even chocolate) in over a decade, just to avoid that sort of feeling. When you add that to restlessness, it's just... ugh. No, thank you.

Also, as a side note, Dopamine is not the "feel good" neurotransmitter. Serotonin is most responsible for that in the brain, epinephrine/norepinephrine in both body and mind. Dopamine has to do with brain activity. Too little and you'll end up scatter-brained, too much and you'll end up with things like Schizophrenia (anti-psychotics specifically reduce Dopamine).

A schizophrenic is obviously not someone who is high. It's someone who is seeing/believing/hearing/feeling things that are not really there because their brain has way too much going on. They see things because their brain sends the exact same signals that it would have if they had really seen those things.

ADHD is the opposite. We don't have enough of the stuff to form and hold thoughts and get them from one part of the brain to another.

It makes us inattentive. We get to the store and forget why we went there. We start talking about one thing, go off on a tangent, then go off on a tangent of that tangent, and then get upset because we can't remember what the wonderful story was that we were telling.

It also makes us hyperactive. Our brains are lacking stimulation, and that expresses mostly as restlessness (hyperactivity is just a symptom of that restlessness). We feel like there is something we need to do. Something urgent. But we can't remember what it is or why we're supposed to do it. We sit down to watch TV, but no.. that's not what we want to do. We step outside, but no.. that isn't where we want to go. We sit down to write an email, but no.. that's not what we should be doing. So we jump from thing to thing to thing - with building agitation - because nothing feels quite "right" and we can't find anything that does. That's hyperactivity.

Lack of motivation, needing energy, wanting a kick, getting euphoria.. none of these things has anything to do with ADHD and are not reasons anyone should ever take the medication. Please don't blame the medication for improper usage of it. I'm not saying anyone intentionally abused the medication, but they obviously took it without realizing exactly what it was and was not for.

I just realized that this post is entirely too long considering the forum I'm posting to.

Dude? Do you know anything? Dopamine is the pleasure neuron. Serotonin is mood. Norepinephrine is what makes you focus. Where the hell have you been? I take 20mg adderall for ADHD and I get euphoric. And were you intending to say that a euphoria causes jitters? Cause it doesn't. And it isn't literally and Anti-hyperactive med. It produces more norepinephrine which clears your thoughts and makes you less scatter minded. What they mean by hyperactivity is usually a hyperactive mind. Amphetamine is a strong stimulant which no matter what will give you physical energy. I still want to know how you thought dopamine isn't the pleasure neuron.

KillZone
08-26-09, 12:59 AM
No offense, but a lot of the posts in this thread are examples of someone taking a medication for the wrong reasons.

I mean, seriously...? Taking it FOR energy? You realize this medication is intended to treat those who have problems with focus/inattention and hyperactivity, right? Nowhere in the prescribing information or indications does it say to use Adderall to give you energy or make you feel good. It isn't an energy drink. Just saying "I take an anti-hyperactivity medication to make me hyper" should make you realize that you're doing something wrong.

My productivity comes from being able to focus on one thing (well, more or less) long enough to actually finish it. My friends and family can spot exactly when my medication is wearing off because I start bouncing off the walls with restlessness and start losing focus halfway through something before jumping to something else. It doesn't motivate me to do anything or help me get up in the morning, it helps me sit my *** down and focus my existing motivation to specific tasks.

And I haven't ever needed an increase in dosage. In fact, the longer I've been on it, the LESS I've needed for the same effect. I worked in the psych field for years, and I've seen a lot of junkies in general. How many addicts have you come across who have a heart rate of 80, a blood pressure of 90/60, and an endless supply patience while they are high? Because that's me while I'm "high" on my medication.

And I have never, ever felt any sort of euphoria from it. I actually can't stand anything that makes me jittery at all. I haven't had any caffeine whatsoever (not even chocolate) in over a decade, just to avoid that sort of feeling. When you add that to restlessness, it's just... ugh. No, thank you.

Also, as a side note, Dopamine is not the "feel good" neurotransmitter. Serotonin is most responsible for that in the brain, epinephrine/norepinephrine in both body and mind. Dopamine has to do with brain activity. Too little and you'll end up scatter-brained, too much and you'll end up with things like Schizophrenia (anti-psychotics specifically reduce Dopamine).

A schizophrenic is obviously not someone who is high. It's someone who is seeing/believing/hearing/feeling things that are not really there because their brain has way too much going on. They see things because their brain sends the exact same signals that it would have if they had really seen those things.

ADHD is the opposite. We don't have enough of the stuff to form and hold thoughts and get them from one part of the brain to another.

It makes us inattentive. We get to the store and forget why we went there. We start talking about one thing, go off on a tangent, then go off on a tangent of that tangent, and then get upset because we can't remember what the wonderful story was that we were telling.

It also makes us hyperactive. Our brains are lacking stimulation, and that expresses mostly as restlessness (hyperactivity is just a symptom of that restlessness). We feel like there is something we need to do. Something urgent. But we can't remember what it is or why we're supposed to do it. We sit down to watch TV, but no.. that's not what we want to do. We step outside, but no.. that isn't where we want to go. We sit down to write an email, but no.. that's not what we should be doing. So we jump from thing to thing to thing - with building agitation - because nothing feels quite "right" and we can't find anything that does. That's hyperactivity.

Lack of motivation, needing energy, wanting a kick, getting euphoria.. none of these things has anything to do with ADHD and are not reasons anyone should ever take the medication. Please don't blame the medication for improper usage of it. I'm not saying anyone intentionally abused the medication, but they obviously took it without realizing exactly what it was and was not for.

I just realized that this post is entirely too long considering the forum I'm posting to.

I also read up on schizo's and yet again you are wrong, they are in fact most of the time "High" euphoric, because their dopamine levels are so high.

indy
08-26-09, 02:18 AM
have you ever thought that maybe you weren't ADHD in the first place?

i can't imagine using my adderall just to get me up in the morning. i wake up routinely around 8AM and don't take my adderall until 11AM, so i am well awake and functioning without it in my system by then.

if all it was doing was giving you energy, then maybe it wasn't ever treating a problem like ADHD. adderall doesn't give me energy at all... in fact, if the dose is too low (below 20mg,) it will put me back to sleep. it calms me down and allows me to focus enough to be productive all day in life and academics.

i take two days off every couple of weeks and the only thing i feel during those days is a return of ADHD symptoms... no withdrawal at all. the half-life of ADHD doses of adderall is just too short for much chemical withdrawal to occur. essentially the person goes thought "withdrawal" in their sleep every night and wakes up the next morning ADHD, but fine.

research and years of clinical study do not suggest that stimulants prescribed in ADHD doses to ADHD patients, have long term ill effects and there is certainly nothing stated about the kind of withdrawal you seem to be talking about. your emotive language suggests you feel like you're coming off heroin or something... stimulants should give no more withdrawal than something akin to missing your morning cup of coffee.

and for all those who say they self-medicate with caffeine because it is safer... guess again. long-term caffeine use has been linked to high blood pressure and cardiac problems. my psych told me i was addicted to caffeine and he'd much rather see me on a controlled dose of ritalin or adderall, than irregular and excessive doses of caffeine.

basically... if somebody uses their stimulants just to wake up in the morning then i'd question the validity of their ADHD diagnosis. flame me for that... but that's how i feel.

indy
08-26-09, 02:26 AM
I continue to be concerned about all the people who are venemently attacking these drugs. Just because something has the POTENTIAL for abuse, side effects and is heavily abused, is no reason to discount it. A healthy ADD'r who is getting GOOD care should never feel guilty or scared for taking adderral or any other amphetamine. I seriously think a lot of these people who feel "high" or need it for energy, either might not have ADD, or are taking too much. It takes a experienced doctor and patient experimentation to get to the right dosage. These drugs should make you feel normal or calmer, not hyped up. When are people going to start getting worked up over the incredible loss of productivity, confidence and damaged self-esteem and possibly even crimes that may be committed because of untreated ADD? Please no one ever let one scary post get you from getting treatment. These drugs have been used for over 50 years, most of the preservatives & chemicals we injest daily are newer. Just use a balanced approach to your health.

my brother has severe ADHD but refuses conventional treatment. instead he is a drug addict and a pot head, and basically thinks he's worthless because he can't accomplish any of his goals. that's what happens when you have ADHD and DON'T take stimulant medication.

my own untreated ADHD had me clincially obese with a BMI of over 40 due to binging on carbs and sweets for the stimulation and even caused my psychiatrist to write on my chart that i am a caffeine addict. i used to drink two coffees and about 10 cans of diet coke per day. i started my weight loss waaaay before being diagnosed ADHD so i'm not using adderall for appetite control - in fact it seems to make me more hungry... but it is clear i was on a short road to death before being diagnosed. i'm now maintaining a 50lb weight loss and am down to three cans of diet coke a day. (still trying to kick the habit for good!) THAT'S WHAT UNTREATED ADHD CAN DO TO YOU. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T TAKE STIMULANT MEDICATION.

indy
08-26-09, 02:37 AM
chameleon
Hard to believe your Dr would put you on this drug and not tell you that it is addictive . Benzodiazepines*are the most addictive substances on the earth*. Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time.

(NOTE: Links have been removed by moderator for the purposes of promoting safety and adherence to forum regulations.-KJ/C)

i've been on clonazepam for five years and am not addicted at all in the sense that i have never abused my prescription or taken more than i was prescribed. i take 1.5mg per night and have done so for years. my psych is perfectly fine with treating my OCD with clonazepam and there's no need for me to feel scared about this medication. if i ever go off it i'll taper down and be fine afterward; although as always i risk the return of the symptoms the clonazepam controls. my thought is that people who abuse medications and become addicted might not have needed the medications to begin with. not in the way they were meant to be taken.

fxfake
08-27-09, 02:39 AM
I still want to know how you thought dopamine isn't the pleasure neuron.

:confused:

Dopamine fails a very important test for being something called "the pleasure neuron"; dopamine is not a neuron. Calling dopamine "the pleasure neuron" is like calling Brand X hydraulic fluid "the pleasure car".

Imnapl
08-27-09, 03:58 AM
Dude?What they mean by hyperactivity is usually a hyperactive mind.As in hyperactivity, the H part of ADHD? Dude, if you believe the H stands for a hyperactive mind and not a hyperactive body, then you need to sit down and do your research before playing with the big guys.

muldoon
08-27-09, 05:53 AM
Trust me I know all about the human mind and drugs I do my homework. All's ADHD is a lack of dopamine (the feel good drug) it causes more productivity and thats what ADD/ADHD people lack...

Yes. Let's all trust the biggest armchair psychiatrist in the forum who thinks Dopamine is a "drug".

Cut your losses while you can KillZone. You sink further and further into the depths of infinite ignorance with each post. What person in their right mind is going to join this forum, see your nonsense slathered everywhere, and not have second thoughts about the members here being intelligent people with helpful insight to offer? The info you post is either elementary, hypocritical, or just plain WRONG.

muldoon
08-27-09, 06:50 AM
chameleon
Hard to believe your Dr would put you on this drug and not tell you that it is addictive . Benzodiazepines*are the most addictive substances on the earth*. Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time.


(NOTE: Links have been removed by moderator for the purposes of promoting safety and adherence to forum regulations.-KJ/C)


I highly doubt that this poster is still active or frequents this forum anymore, but I feel the need to address the statements made in the post.

Was "Benzodiazepines are the most addictive substances on earth" an excerpt from a body of literature proving this to be true after it tested the addiction potential of every other substance on earth? Or was it the result of a planet-wide poll?

"Benzodiazepines are only meant to be taken for short periods of time , and can become ineffective and induce drug dependency when used for inappropriately long periods of time."- Often, someone who is experiencing high levels of anxiety or panic attacks will be prescribed a benzo along with an SSRI or a medication that increases the amount of available serotonin. If the serotonin agent starts working, it will often alleviate the anxiety issues, and the benzo will rarely, or no longer be needed. But this does not work for everyone. I personally went through this process a decade ago w/ Xanax and Paxil. Before coming in to see my doctor, my panic was so bad that I became suicidal because I could not escape it. During the time on Paxil, I rarely needed a Xanax. But Paxil taxed my body and mind heavily in many ways. There are people who have debilitating anxiety and cannot function because of it, and have tried SSRIs or other anxiolytics to no avail. For many of these people, a benzo is the only thing that works and enables them to function by taking away a crippling feeling, not by giving them a pleasurable one. A benzo is the only medication that stops my panic and severe anxiety since stopping SSRIs because of the side effects. I have been at 2mg daily for over a year with no signs of fading efficacy. If it were not for benzos, I'd have ended my life 10 years ago because I did not know what was happening to me or how to escape the grip of daily panic attacks. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

And as far as "becoming ineffective" & "inducing dependency"... That makes benzodiazepines exactly like almost every other medication. Stimulants, anti-depressants, analgesics, nasal sprays, etc. Why assign this horrific attribute to only a benzo? If someone is on Klonopin, Xanax, or Valium on a daily basis, it should be common knowledge that stopping them abruptly will almost guarantee unpleasant withdrawal, or if at high doses, possibly seizures. If the user does not know this, then either their doctor failed to cover the topic (unlikely when prescribing these meds), the patient disregards the info packet that comes with their prescription, or ignores the pharmacist upon receipt of the medication. There's also the possiblity that someone is taking it that shouldn't be and has no idea what they are putting into their body. If this is the case, ignorance will come with a hefty price tag. That is why if someone chooses to come off of them, it should be done under the strict supervision of a physician and on a structured and very gradual tapering schedule.

I get tired of benzophobes striking fear into someone who may benefit greatly from these medications, especially if they have tried all other options with no success. They are powerful medications that need to be taken as directed and with discipline. They can be life savers for someone who is afflicted with severe panic disorder. And, as with many other powerful medications, should be discontinued in a very specific manner if one chooses to part ways with them.

fxfake
08-27-09, 12:36 PM
Was "Benzodiazepines are the most addictive substances on earth" an excerpt from a body of literature proving this to be true after it tested the addiction potential of every other substance on earth? Or was it the result of a planet-wide poll?

Not that I agree with the post to which you were responding, but the quoted statement has some validity (in terms of physical dependence; taking a very broad definition of "addictive"). Benzos are some of the few drugs whose withdrawal symptoms can kill you. Few drugs have that "ability"; heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines (e.g. Adderall) do not have that ability. Barbiturates and ethanol can also kill via withdrawal; both similar (the same?) ways as benzos.

I don't think this was the point of what you quoted, but it is something worth noting.

I get tired of benzophobes striking fear into someone who may benefit greatly from these medications, especially if they have tried all other options with no success. They are powerful medications that need to be taken as directed and with discipline. They can be life savers for someone who is afflicted with severe panic disorder. And, as with many other powerful medications, should be discontinued in a very specific manner if one chooses to part ways with them.

Exactly (does this forum have a "thumbs up" for text?). Benzos are a powerful tool. As with most powerful tools, they must be used with care.

Time for a silly analogy... Chainsaws are powerful tools; they may even be enjoyable to use... but the fact that some people might get hurt slicing everything in sight is not a reason to ban chainsaws.

i've been on clonazepam for five years and am not addicted at all in the sense that i have never abused my prescription or taken more than i was prescribed. i take 1.5mg per night and have done so for years. my psych is perfectly fine with treating my OCD with clonazepam and there's no need for me to feel scared about this medication.

You may not be addicted in the clinical sense, but I (taking the same med & dose, but for a different Dx) would say that are certainly physically dependent, a fact of which you are clearly aware. There is nothing particularly wrong with this; many people are physically dependent on "non-habit forming" medications like beta-blockers, corticosteroids, anticonvulsants, etc.

Should one tell a parent to stop taking blood pressure pills because those pills cause dependence?

thomas2names
08-27-09, 02:02 PM
In response to PARA's post


Wow this post offends me, to tell me that the last 27 years of my life unmedicated was my own fault for not "listening to my mind"........ I got thorugh all of school and a four year degree without being on medication before I finally decided that I had suffered enough. Do you know how many times I would ask whats wrong with me? Why am I not normal, why can't I feel the same way everyone else seems to. Even my family cannot relate, they just don't know me that well except for a few really close friends. So yeah I guess I'm an addict because I sought help and am trying some meds. Did you know that anything in the right amounts are a "poison" to our bodies. Even water and air can kill in excess amounts. Anyways I refuse to let one more person tell me that I just need to think about it or listen to myself, beleive me I have tried everything else and just want to experience a normality for awhile if thats even possible.

theface
08-27-09, 02:09 PM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .

Again I wish someone had told me years ago when I first started it that I would pay dearly for this wonder drug that made me feel so good when I had to get off of it . And yes I do not believe you can stay on it for life ... when you get up to needing about 60 + mg a day in your 4th or 5th year you start to understand the toll an Amphetamine takes on your health over a long period of time . Again this is just my experience and I am looking for someone who has been on it 5 or 6 years to tell me where they are at . As I read these posts I see most people have only got a few years if that on the stuff .

I just experienced the same exact thing. My tolerance and withdrawal, when I could try to come off adderall, were insane. I tried everything to battle the tolerance and withdrawal. I read on a few forums that people were experimenting with benadryl, dxm, and other strange ways to try and curb tolerance. I tried these remedies and they made me feel worse. The only thing that worked for me was a homeopathic supplement called Ampheta-Restore. It cut my tolerance in half and I was able to sustain the same effects from 1 30 mg xr/day. This stuff is good and has been the only thing that has worked! I have shared it with my other friends who have children that have been on adderall and dexedrine for several years now. I hope other people can benefit from this.

KillZone
08-27-09, 09:06 PM
Yes. Let's all trust the biggest armchair psychiatrist in the forum who thinks Dopamine is a "drug".

Cut your losses while you can KillZone. You sink further and further into the depths of infinite ignorance with each post. What person in their right mind is going to join this forum, see your nonsense slathered everywhere, and not have second thoughts about the members here being intelligent people with helpful insight to offer? The info you post is either elementary, hypocritical, or just plain WRONG.

I don't even recall ever posting that. Please provide a link with that nonsense. I said dopamine is what causes pleasure. I really don't get what is up with you attacking me.

Fierwing
08-27-09, 09:22 PM
I don't even recall ever posting that. Please provide a link with that nonsense.

Here you go.

It was, um... post # 66 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=719608&postcount=66)on this thread.

muldoon
08-28-09, 06:36 AM
I don't even recall ever posting that. Please provide a link with that nonsense. I said dopamine is what causes pleasure. I really don't get what is up with you attacking me.

Why do I need to provide a link to it when YOU ARE QUOTED AS SAYING IT IN MY REPLY? Do you think I have an alternate account here with your exact name and I log in to post misinformation about what Dopamine is, log out, log in under my name, and quote the fake KillZone's absurd posts?

I'm not attacking you. I share the same opinion as quite a few others when I say that you simply don't know what you're talking about. And until you do, you should either cease posting or post personal experiences and simple opinions instead, rather than what you have been. No further explanation required or desired.

THE END.

muldoon
08-28-09, 07:27 AM
Benzos are some of the few drugs whose withdrawal symptoms can kill you. Few drugs have that "ability"; heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines (e.g. Adderall) do not have that ability. Barbiturates and ethanol can also kill via withdrawal; both similar (the same?) ways as benzos.



A person taking extremely high doses of a benzo who stops abruptly is at a very high risk for seizures, which could in turn lead to death. I've never actually read or heard of death as a result of benzo use/discontinuation, but theoretically it could be possible. But, this is at the extreme end of the spectrum and would most likely be the result of someone who was taking it for non-therapeutic purposes for an extended time period, ran out of their supply, and received no medical care afterwards. If a benzo had a listed common side effect of "death", it would simply not be available as a medication.

I believe it is important for people to be informed about what they are putting into their bodies. If they don't bother, and abuse it, then the time will come to pay for their own stupidity. I personally know that if I even try to cut down half a milligram of Xanax, I feel very strange for weeks. I have accepted the fact that this is the only drug that works for my condition, and that eventually over time, I'm sure my dose will need to be raised slightly. I am dependent on it to keep my panic at bay, however, I am not addicted to any feeling it gives me, because it doesn't give me any at all. It merely takes one away. I will most likely be on it until my dying day, and given the long term studies on benzos, there really isn't anything that has surfaced that is a major cause for alarm for me (some reports of slight liver damage after 20+ years at doses of 6mg daily or more).

It all just comes down to being smart about it. If you have to be on a benzo, then so be it. If it's used as directed and under a physician's supervision, the chances of developing an addiction that could lead to death are so slim that it's almost invisible. Alcohol and tobacco kill people every minute, whether it be directly or indirectly, and the long term effects of both substances on the body have been proven repeatedly. Yet, strangely, I don't see anyone demonizing them in the manner that benzos are by many people on this and other forums.

Zacker
08-28-09, 08:01 AM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .




Very Interesting.. I have only been on it a short time but I do feel alot better on it than I did off it.. before it I was considered lazy and I procrastinated badly.. now While on it (60 mg per day) I feel like my old self but with a lot more concentration than I had and yes I admit it.. more energy.. I think..lol like when Im working at a project, i will go an go till I cant go anymore.. but whats funny is, I will be tired, beat like a zombie but still want to be working at whatever it is im doing. Recently, i was the only person at work from 2PM on till we close at 5.. One boss (the owner) told me to leave at about 3.. the other boss his partner) asked me to stay untill 4-ish because he didnt think it was good business to close at 1/2 day on a friday. I stayed and was working on some valves, I got so into it that when 4 o clock came, i didnt wanna stop so I stayed till 5 when i didnt even really wana stop then. When I start getting into a project, watch out.. lol anyhow, I do feel a little boost in energy when I wanna do something but for the most part, i can fall asleep at the drop of a dime and even after my nooon time 30mg Adderall, im ready for sleep.. sleeping at my desk, fighting to stay awake in the car.. but if Im moving im fine. did this happen to you

Zacker
08-28-09, 08:09 AM
my own untreated ADHD had me clincially obese with a BMI of over 40 due to binging on carbs and sweets for the stimulation and even caused my psychiatrist to write on my chart that i am a caffeine addict. i used to drink two coffees and about 10 cans of diet coke per day. i started my weight loss waaaay before being diagnosed ADHD so i'm not using adderall for appetite control - in fact it seems to make me more hungry... but it is clear i was on a short road to death before being diagnosed. i'm now maintaining a 50lb weight loss and am down to three cans of diet coke a day. (still trying to kick the habit for good!) THAT'S WHAT UNTREATED ADHD CAN DO TO YOU. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T TAKE STIMULANT MEDICATION.

Amen.... I hear that! Although I love the appitite control part of the Adderall, I also love that i can now start something and finish it.. although it does nothing to wake me up, it does help me get through tasks without driving me crazy. It also helps me to controll eating but I still love my carbs and sweets..lol but most times now, I can say.. No! and i can eat much much less and feel full. so for me, it is a win - win drug, it helps my two biggest problems, weight and ADHD.

chartreuse
08-28-09, 06:27 PM
No offense, but a lot of the posts in this thread are examples of someone taking a medication for the wrong reasons.

I mean, seriously...? Taking it FOR energy? You realize this medication is intended to treat those who have problems with focus/inattention and hyperactivity, right? Nowhere in the prescribing information or indications does it say to use Adderall to give you energy or make you feel good. It isn't an energy drink. Just saying "I take an anti-hyperactivity medication to make me hyper" should make you realize that you're doing something wrong.

My productivity comes from being able to focus on one thing (well, more or less) long enough to actually finish it. My friends and family can spot exactly when my medication is wearing off because I start bouncing off the walls with restlessness and start losing focus halfway through something before jumping to something else. It doesn't motivate me to do anything or help me get up in the morning, it helps me sit my *** down and focus my existing motivation to specific tasks.

And I haven't ever needed an increase in dosage. In fact, the longer I've been on it, the LESS I've needed for the same effect. I worked in the psych field for years, and I've seen a lot of junkies in general. How many addicts have you come across who have a heart rate of 80, a blood pressure of 90/60, and an endless supply patience while they are high? Because that's me while I'm "high" on my medication.

And I have never, ever felt any sort of euphoria from it. I actually can't stand anything that makes me jittery at all. I haven't had any caffeine whatsoever (not even chocolate) in over a decade, just to avoid that sort of feeling. When you add that to restlessness, it's just... ugh. No, thank you.

Also, as a side note, Dopamine is not the "feel good" neurotransmitter. Serotonin is most responsible for that in the brain, epinephrine/norepinephrine in both body and mind. Dopamine has to do with brain activity. Too little and you'll end up scatter-brained, too much and you'll end up with things like Schizophrenia (anti-psychotics specifically reduce Dopamine).

A schizophrenic is obviously not someone who is high. It's someone who is seeing/believing/hearing/feeling things that are not really there because their brain has way too much going on. They see things because their brain sends the exact same signals that it would have if they had really seen those things.

ADHD is the opposite. We don't have enough of the stuff to form and hold thoughts and get them from one part of the brain to another.

It makes us inattentive. We get to the store and forget why we went there. We start talking about one thing, go off on a tangent, then go off on a tangent of that tangent, and then get upset because we can't remember what the wonderful story was that we were telling.

It also makes us hyperactive. Our brains are lacking stimulation, and that expresses mostly as restlessness (hyperactivity is just a symptom of that restlessness). We feel like there is something we need to do. Something urgent. But we can't remember what it is or why we're supposed to do it. We sit down to watch TV, but no.. that's not what we want to do. We step outside, but no.. that isn't where we want to go. We sit down to write an email, but no.. that's not what we should be doing. So we jump from thing to thing to thing - with building agitation - because nothing feels quite "right" and we can't find anything that does. That's hyperactivity.

Lack of motivation, needing energy, wanting a kick, getting euphoria.. none of these things has anything to do with ADHD and are not reasons anyone should ever take the medication. Please don't blame the medication for improper usage of it. I'm not saying anyone intentionally abused the medication, but they obviously took it without realizing exactly what it was and was not for.

I just realized that this post is entirely too long considering the forum I'm posting to.

I'm sure what you wrote is true for you, but lack of motivation and needing energy are actually more than a little common amongst people with ADD (can't speak to ADHD). In fact, for myself, if Adderall didn't give me energy, none of the other effects it has would make any difference because I'd be too sleepy to do anything regardless of how well I could focus on it. In fact, before diagnosis and meds, I would basically mainline caffeine from dawn to dusk, and not only did it never make me jittery, it never kept me up at all.

Also, euphoria at the beginning of treatment with Adderall is, again, pretty common. I certainly experienced it, and I've never seen a reason to lie about that or act as if there was something wrong with that. It felt GREAT. If there was some practical way for me to feel like that most of the time, I would. Not all the time, but most. It's actually a little sad that we're not designed to feel that good on a regular basis, at least not through the use of meds (achievement of a transcendental state of being through spiritual practice is a different matter, of course, but pills are easier).

You started your post by saying that a lot of people's reasons for taking meds were "wrong." Don't you think that's more than a wee bit judgmental? While I understand the difficulties it causes those of us with ADD when people misuse ADD meds, either with a prescription or without, if a medication makes someone's life better, more tolerable, more enjoyable, then there's really shouldn't be any room for anyone else to take issue with that, should there?

According to you, because I take Adderall for (amongst other things), energy, it's "wrong" for me to take it.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how is it exactly that you think you have the right to tell me that the medication that has so drastically improved my life is something I shouldn't be taking?

Imnapl
08-29-09, 03:33 AM
Speak without offending; listen without defending.

I understood raj's post, but perhaps I misunderstood raj's post?

Now I remember! I did a search of the posts by a sixteen year old authority on ADHD and medication and was able to understand what raj was writing about.

ericdolphy
10-03-09, 02:11 PM
"I thought my dose just wasn't high enough or maybe Adderall just wouldn't work for me.
But I REALLY thought that ADDers did NOT get 'high' on methamphetamines. That it had the opposite effect on us. I thought that's why they use it on us"

this is a common misconception that ADDers don't get high on amphetamines. this stems from adderall's effect on the ability to concentrate in those with ADD. the part of our brains that allows us to ignore unimportant thoughts and things in our envirnment has low activity in ADDers. so when an amphetamine is taken (which speeds up all brain activity) that portion of the brain is now able to function correctly. when on adderall, ADDers are able to concentrate. so now they are less scatter brained and less hyper. it gives the appearance that adderall "has the opposite effect" on ADDers. in reality, ADDers still get high, get speedy, dry mouth etc. although, since you use it everyday, you build a tolerance so these effects become hardly noticable. if you gave some of your adderall to a non-ADDer, they would get pretty high from it because they have no tolerance, not because they dont have ADD.

esskay
10-03-09, 04:42 PM
Okay, I feel I need to step in and add some balance along with the rest of you (who added reason and balance). I've been on and off of Adderall for 9 years, and am currently back on it, 40 mg per day. If I am off of it for more than a week my chronic depression comes back to knock me down flat, despite the anti-depressants (cymbalta and Trazadone) that I take daily.
If it's been like 3 weeks to a month, when I start back on I too feel really great. I still get frustrated by mistakes I may make, but all in all the depression immediately lifts. I do know I have ADD because I have all of the symptoms, along with the depression. Anyway, my point is this: like others who posted in this thread, I think the best thing to do is to take days off, such as weekends or 'light' days of activity, or at least reduce the amount for a day or two. Give yourself these little mini vacations from the med and you'll fine, if you are like a lot of people, that you won't develop a tolerance so soon. Also, I have to add my vote to the "it doesn't make me feel speedy or hyper" after starting back on it. In fact, I become much more patient and calm, and I can focus and accomplish things that need to be completed, instead of starting projects that really don't make sense, such as cataloging all the magazines (by volume and issue #) that we recycle--don't ask.

Oh, and if you do decide to go off the meds after a couple of years or so, for crying out down do so gradually, like over a two or three month period. Every few weeks reduce the daily dose by a couple of milligrams, and the whole thing will be a lot smoother.

Hope my rant helps someone!?

Esskay

rd_wnc
10-05-09, 08:29 AM
I try not to take Adderall on the weekends unless I'm coming into work. It can be a bit draggy on some days but I'm trying not to rely on it for non-work times... I can see where the dependence comes from. I've only been on this a short time so I'm not sure what I'll do on vacations...probably try to stay away from it.

December15
10-07-09, 10:23 AM
Great post, Muldoon - thank you! I'd like to add a couple of thoughts;

Before I was diagnosed with ADHD I self medicated for a long time with alcohol. Lots of alcohol - I drank close to a quart of vodka a day for years, when for some reason I chose a different form of alcohol I kept the same level.

The key issue for me is that I am an alcoholic; I had absolutely no control over the amount I drank and I don't recall ever stopping until I passed out. I would no more dream of having a drink today than I would of trying heroin (best example that came to mind). I haven't had a drink in twenty years although I had a brief period of Ativan addiction a few years ago. I simply cannot handle Ativan; if I take it even once I'm guaranteed three subsequent nights of miserable insomnia - not my normal type where I just don't want to go to bed, this is a complete inability to go deeper than a light doze.

But I take 2 mg of clorazepam every night before I go to bed. I have no urge to take more but I also have no intention of stopping - this works for me and I accept it. Benzos per se are not evil - people swallow anything their doctor hands them and we've been brainwashed into Dr. = Deity. There are many medications which have horrible side effects - Premarin, for instance. I don't take anything I haven't researched thoroughly.

The other point I wished to raise is one I don't believe anyone has addressed. (In all honesty, though, I didn't have time or patience to do more than speed read the whole thread.) SSRIs - widely prescribed, certainly not a demon drug like the benzos, at least on the surface - carry a withdrawal load every bit as nasty as Xanax. Paxil has a particularly unpleasant reputation in this regard. It's almost worse because until recently the pharmaceutical companies vehemently denied the existence of withdrawal symptoms connected to antidepressants. Of course then the doctors doing the prescribing treated people like hypochondriacs, accused them of "attention seeking behavior" or assumed they were slipping back into a depression and put them back on either the same or a different SSRI. All the symptoms described on the first page of this thread regarding withdrawal from Adderall can be found time and time again on every SSRI board akin to this.

If you don't taper off slowly - sometimes by no more than 1/16 of a tablet and all stages for at least two weeks - it's easy to assume you're either crazy or in such a chronic depression that you'll be on meds the rest of your life. You don't have seizures - but you may feel as though you are receiving repeated electric shocks. Sometimes only in your head or face, sometimes over the entire body. Nausea, cramps, diarrhea, headaches, muscle twitches, malaise......no, nothing that might overtly cause death but while a few people are able to ride it out, many resume taking the SSRI and a few commit suicide because they're miserable and have lost hope.

Geez - there are even people who become addicted to nasal sprays because of their rebound effect! Any medication can cause problems, a great many definitely do and many don't with informed use. Heroin and morphine are unequaled in pain relief and most people do not become addicted under those circumstances. It's all relative.

I'll echo Muldoon...the solution doesn't lie in blaming a drug unless you look at all available commonly prescribed drugs with the same consideration. The only solution is twofold; we need to realize that ultimately our bodies are our own responsibility and the government needs to treat us like adults and give us access to whatever information we require to learn what best suits our individual chemistry.

December


A person taking extremely high doses of a benzo who stops abruptly is at a very high risk for seizures, which could in turn lead to death. I've never actually read or heard of death as a result of benzo use/discontinuation, but theoretically it could be possible. But, this is at the extreme end of the spectrum and would most likely be the result of someone who was taking it for non-therapeutic purposes for an extended time period, ran out of their supply, and received no medical care afterwards. If a benzo had a listed common side effect of "death", it would simply not be available as a medication.

I believe it is important for people to be informed about what they are putting into their bodies. If they don't bother, and abuse it, then the time will come to pay for their own stupidity.

It all just comes down to being smart about it. If you have to be on a benzo, then so be it. If it's used as directed and under a physician's supervision, the chances of developing an addiction that could lead to death are so slim that it's almost invisible. Alcohol and tobacco kill people every minute, whether it be directly or indirectly, and the long term effects of both substances on the body have been proven repeatedly. Yet, strangely, I don't see anyone demonizing them in the manner that benzos are by many people on this and other forums.

hceuterpe
10-10-09, 07:25 PM
Now that I try to remember back in college, one of the biggest reasons why I stopped taking dexedrine was because the moment one person knew in college I took something for ADHD, all the kids wanted one. Now if only I didn't share that knowledge with others. More times than not those same people smoke weed, or drank A LOT. I would always ask myself, "why do they want to take it just to study better when I find myself needing it to study or focus at all?" ADHD was put on the back burner to deal with something even more critical for me, which brought out depression. My doctor threw every anti-depressant she could think of. Nothing worked. Oh wait, EVERY SNRI/SSRI gave me daily migraines, the tri-cyclics at least didn't help the depression and of course the one time I had a seizure when I accidentally took a double dose of Wellbutrin XR--the only med that did anything (a NDRI). She legally had to have me stop taking it though because prescribing it was a liability issue. I got over the underlining cause of my depression, and my depression went away from it. And now it's back because I'm dealing with ADHD.. You the reader can be the judge of why anti-depressants didn't work for me...

In regards to dopamine vs norepinephrine, I'm reading that it is "synthesized from dopamine by dopamine β-hydroxylase" In fact this bit of knowledge is making postulate if there's a very good reason Strattera was bang on for about 3-weeks, and then it's effects went away and now it's making me sleepy? (perhaps I have limited norepinephrine because of a lack of dopamine already?) Also makes sense why I read that Adderall works better than Vyvanse for some people as Vyvanse doesn't effect the norepinephrine levels as much..

December15: I remember a friend of mine, who had a anxiety disorder (?) offered me take one of his Klonopin. Phew I acted like I was stoned & drunk. He couldn't function without. Then I tried weed a few times, and freaked out like I was a schizophrenic. My friend on the other hand thought marijuana was great. Good thing I never gave him a dex pill. He probably would've lost it. I guess substances effect people in different ways. Also so I don't sound like a drug addict: I don't do any drugs anymore (I can pass a urine test at a moment's notice) and rarely drink...

Hrm...

sillygirl32
09-02-10, 10:07 PM
My 35 year old son has been on Adderall for almost 5 yrs. I want my son back. The quack Dr. and his partner he goes to, operate a pill store in my town. My son is convinced he has ADD. He has ALWAYS been unorganized, scattered and forgetful....but then, so am I. Trouble is, it bothers him unlike me. His marriage is in trouble and his darling 1 1/2 yr old daughter doesn't understand why daddy speeds through the house all day. His wife still thinks he is forgetful and scattered....why not? When you are speeding your life away you can't smell the flowers. A few days ago he declared he needs to rid his body of this stuff. His Dr. is away for the week, probably visiting one of the islands thanks to my son. He is trying this "cold turkey" because he cannot wait for the Dr.'s return for fear his marriage will end. He told me he was taking 90 mg. I have been watching his daughter while his wife is at work because he worries he will have a seizure. Today he sounded much better and the depression seems to have subsided. I wonder if he is in the clear yet or is it still possible for nasty withdrawal side effects to occur. Please offer any advice, suggestions.......thanks!

poundsmyer
12-20-10, 07:21 PM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .

Again I wish someone had told me years ago when I first started it that I would pay dearly for this wonder drug that made me feel so good when I had to get off of it . And yes I do not believe you can stay on it for life ... when you get up to needing about 60 + mg a day in your 4th or 5th year you start to understand the toll an Amphetamine takes on your health over a long period of time . Again this is just my experience and I am looking for someone who has been on it 5 or 6 years to tell me where they are at . As I read these posts I see most people have only got a few years if that on the stuff .


I feel you!!
I have been on stimulant ADHD meds now for 6, almost 7, years! I have reached the point where I am ready to run my own life; but you're right... it is really hard to do when you've been so dependent on the stuff to get you going everyday for so long. If I don't take it one day, don't count on me even getting off the couch-- it just takes too much energy. I feel like it has put me in a hole. Each day, I only get going once I've taken my meds AND had a cup of coffee. It has become way too easy to let it do the work for me and now I'm also paying dearly for it.
I have talked myself into sticking with it because it's easier and I haven't exactly had the luxury of time to stop it and recover. No meds= no work, no play, no nothing. We haven't had the resources to allow it.
But now, I have finally finished my degree and my husband is cool with me taking a few more weeks to get a job. I'm finally going to give this thing a shot for real! I'll let you know how it goes and offer any advice I can through it. Wish me luck!

kiosk
12-22-10, 12:21 PM
just some food for thought, but I thought I was physcially dependent on adderall like hell for getting just about anything done.....it was drive me crazy and I didnt like it at all....however it turns out that some testing revealed i had very low levels of testosterone....once I corrected this I felt great and now I run on half the dose I used to and even less on not so intensive days......
dont discount that after some many years you could have some hormonal imbalances of sorts that will make it literally impossible for you to come off it clean....just talk to your doc about it....

oiler89
01-02-11, 11:47 AM
Well, I have been on Adderral for 2 years at 40-60 as well and my doctor switched me to Vyance the day before yesterday. I have to say I have been feeling sick a lot. I was very comfortable with the coffee and Adderral but I was crashing so much in the evening that I found that it switched my personality and my wife didn't like it. I also found myself waking up early and not being able to go back to sleep. Did you fins that as well? This is day 2 on Vyance and I hope it gets better or I will have to go back to the Adderral!:)

Canuck223
01-02-11, 12:13 PM
I try not to take Adderall on the weekends unless I'm coming into work. It can be a bit draggy on some days but I'm trying not to rely on it for non-work times... I can see where the dependence comes from. I've only been on this a short time so I'm not sure what I'll do on vacations...probably try to stay away from it.

I'm in the same boat. I'm trying hard to skip it on the weekends and holidays. However, it's really tempting and sometimes I wonder. Over the holidays I had 10 days off. I skipped it most days, but when I had to rally the kids to help me clean the house and decorate, etc, I took my Adderall.

So now I ask myself, did you take it just to keep a clear head and work efficiently, or for the amphetamine boost to your productivity? I wouldn't skip it on a work day, and enjoy both benefits. Should I somehow feel I'm abusing my meds by not skipping it on a day off?

My reason for skipping it on days off is to reduce a potential tolerance build up. I give my kid a drug holiday on the weekends and holidays for the same reason, and because of the perception that the amphetamines stunt growth. When we have a busy, active, potentially stressful day planned on the weekend or holiday, I give him his meds.

I think I'm on the right path.

ggb2010
01-04-11, 02:41 PM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .

Again I wish someone had told me years ago when I first started it that I would pay dearly for this wonder drug that made me feel so good when I had to get off of it . And yes I do not believe you can stay on it for life ... when you get up to needing about 60 + mg a day in your 4th or 5th year you start to understand the toll an Amphetamine takes on your health over a long period of time . Again this is just my experience and I am looking for someone who has been on it 5 or 6 years to tell me where they are at . As I read these posts I see most people have only got a few years if that on the stuff .
I've been on Adderall for 5years 20mg 3x a day. Yes it gives me energy, yes I'm very tired and spaced out for about 3 days when I stop taking it. Then I just go back into my "normal" ADD state...where I'm not so much physicaly tired but mentaly I get VERY tired from all of the thinking and rethinking and over thinking I have to do just to get through simple daily tasks. ADDERALL WORKS TO ELIMINATE THIS PROBLEM! So I take it and will continue to take it. I'm so sick of hearing about "addiction" and the "evils" of drugs. We are sick... we take medicine...SO WHAT!? Life is not perfect for ANYONE.

Alex9
01-04-11, 04:57 PM
I stopped taking ritalin and vyvanse after taking them (or other stimulant meds) for about 2 1/2 years and I think Im experiencing withdrawals. I feel tired all the time and have pretty extreme mood swings. Whether or not all this is a withdrawal isnt clear however. Meds are very effective at treating adhd, but I think eventually I came to rely on it to live with practically no sleep. I think that they have valid medical uses, but addiction is a risk and so is using them as a crutch for other problems (for me it was dealing with a life style with almost no sleep).

Just my two cents.

MusikGeliebter
02-05-11, 11:17 PM
Um, I've been on Vyvanse or Adderall for about 3 years, Ritalin and Concerta 4 years before that. Adderall is what works best for me right now but it causes mood swings. When I stop taking it I love my mood but my adhd does start to come back. The only time I had something like what you're talking about is when I took Vyvanse for over a year without a holiday. That was scary because when I wouldn't take it for a day withing hours I was groggy, slept all day and night, had a ridiculous appetite. But, I don't seem to have any of those problems anymore. I think it's really important to take holidays. I've been on ADHD medications with minimum breaks for years now and I honestly do not think they harm you in any way. I do believe that one becomes tolerant to a medication to some degree, but then you just switch and you are fine.

ArtGypsy
02-06-11, 12:16 AM
I can't possibly read all the comments on this post.

And the first few I read scared the cr*p outta me.

But this is my thoughts on it.

People who actually have AD(H)D suffer in many ways when not on medication.
There is a problem with the neurotransmitters in the brain. Possibly not enough Dopamine or Norepinephrine. Or the uptake of those chemicals.

People who have diabetes also suffer with out medication.
There is a problem with their pancreas and insulin levels.
So would you suggest a diabetic not take their insulin or other medication because they may become dependent on them? Highly doubtful.

The guy who can't get a erection without Viagra? Sure, he could live without taking the medication or ever having another erection. But it is important for a man's mental health to have a healthy active sex life.

Is it ok to take Prozac or another SSRI long term so not to have to live with depression and a poor quality of life? I think most would say yes.

So would a diabetic, someone with a erectile dysfunction or someone with depression be considered addicts because of taking meds on a regular basis?

Sure, people with AD(H)D won't die without medications. But their quality of life isn't what it could be.

I have felt for years very dependent on others because of my lack of being able to cope with daily tasks. I have let people down for YEARS because of my ADD. I have drank more than I should have because of my ADD.
One of the biggest changes right off the bat from Adderall was that I didn't have a desire to drink.

I love that I don't have to beat myself up emotionally because of my lack of brain organization that prevented me from doing daily functions or doing important things in a timely manner. That I don't feel like a idiot when having conversations because I actually can pay better attention now.
I'm hoping to work again and possibly stay in that job for years instead of months.

I have suffered for 36 years with this. (Well, maybe not before the age of 5, I probably didn't care back then.) But I did miserably in school starting from 1st grade. I was considered "lazy, careless, defiant, uncooperative, unmotivated".
No, what I was, actually, was suffering from a lack of something going RIGHT in my brain.
And Adderall is helping what was wrong, go right.


(I was on Wellbutrin for years for what I had thought was depression. Wellbutrin did help with the ADD, but not enough.)

Oasis77
02-27-11, 06:36 PM
I have ADHD Inattentive type.. I have had daily fatigue all my life. No anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, vitamin, exercise or 12 plus hour a nite sleep has been able to combat that fatigue. Adderall makes it disappear. It does NOT make me hyper, bounce off the walls or jittery. It just makes the daily fatigue disappear. Wellbutrin is the only thing that semi helped make me less tired. Which makes sense b/c I do believe both medications increase the level of dopamine in the brain which provides energy. That to me is a godsend. Living in a sleepy world is exhausting.

It gives me a quiet mind, it calms me down, I can focus, concentrate and prioritize tasks. I don't forget why I came into a store, I can now make lists...not lose those lists and actually cross tasks off that list. I do not have racing thoughts and anxiety around getting yelled at work or in my r'ship for messing something up.

ADHD'ers typically have sleep disturbances which results in fatigue and difficulty wakening. However, stimulants are NOT taken to "wake us up". Many of us can drink coffee and take a nap afterwards! :D

imreallyjin
02-28-11, 06:31 PM
6 years of adderall everyday?

no thanks, that sounds insane.

i can't even handle taking 5mg adderall for 3 consecutive days. you sir, are kraaaazy.
maybe it's because i'm fearful of the powerful amphetamine, because it is so easy to become dependent on it.

so many people on this forum complain that they cannot stop taking it to function and i cannot help but to feel bad for my fellow ADD-er's whose attention inconsistency is far worse than that of mine.

StarStuff
02-28-11, 06:58 PM
Interesting that you say that, jin. I guess it shows how everybody is different. I find that when I take 10 mg, I only begin to feel its effects about 2 and a half or 3 hours in, as it is approaching its peak. Some people claim they begin to feel it 40-60 minutes in, so I think this indicates I'm at too small a dosage. How long does 5 mg last you? When do you begin to feel its effects, and how do you know it's kicked in? I find it doubtful that I'm just not realizing it started working after 40-60 minutes.

imreallyjin
02-28-11, 07:31 PM
i feel it kick in about 30 minutes. wears off in 2 hours. then there's an hour of crash (that is when i eat to re-fuel my brain and body). then the residual effect of calm and quiet productivity keeps me going for about 4 hours until gradually going away in 11 hours.

i have difficulty sleeping though.

3AngelsMama
03-18-11, 11:09 AM
I seriously think a lot of these people who feel "high" or need it for energy, either might not have ADD, or are taking too much. These drugs should make you feel normal or calmer, not hyped up. When are people going to start getting worked up over the incredible loss of productivity, confidence and damaged self-esteem and possibly even crimes that may be committed because of untreated ADD? Please no one ever let one scary post get you from getting treatment. These drugs have been used for over 50 years, most of the preservatives & chemicals we injest daily are newer. Just use a balanced approach to your health.

My 9 yo daughter looked at me the first night,after taking her Adderall XR that morning, and said "Thank you mom, my day was much better today. My teacher didn't have to tell me to pay attention AT ALL!!! I think my 'concentrating' pill helps me a lot" (homework time is still a hassle tho. The meds seem to have worn off by 3 pm, but there's been a decrease in the amount of work brought home.)

I was hesitant to put my daughter on meds for her ADD, but am glad I did. She is a completely different child, for the better.

Jester
03-18-11, 01:17 PM
I seriously think a lot of these people who feel "high" or need it for energy, either might not have ADD, or are taking too much. These drugs should make you feel normal or calmer, not hyped up.

Stimulants also treat narcolepsy. People feeling tired and without energy can find great use of stimulants in order to get energy.

kiosk
03-18-11, 04:41 PM
I have ADHD Inattentive type.. I have had daily fatigue all my life. No anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, vitamin, exercise or 12 plus hour a nite sleep has been able to combat that fatigue. Adderall makes it disappear. It does NOT make me hyper, bounce off the walls or jittery. It just makes the daily fatigue disappear. Wellbutrin is the only thing that semi helped make me less tired. Which makes sense b/c I do believe both medications increase the level of dopamine in the brain which provides energy. That to me is a godsend. Living in a sleepy world is exhausting.

It gives me a quiet mind, it calms me down, I can focus, concentrate and prioritize tasks. I don't forget why I came into a store, I can now make lists...not lose those lists and actually cross tasks off that list. I do not have racing thoughts and anxiety around getting yelled at work or in my r'ship for messing something up.

ADHD'ers typically have sleep disturbances which results in fatigue and difficulty wakening. However, stimulants are NOT taken to "wake us up". Many of us can drink coffee and take a nap afterwards! :D

hey you sound just like me....but in my case a lot of the fatigue was alliviated after i went on testosterone therapy which I had very low levels prior!!! so now I only need about 1/3 of the adderall I used to take....while I agree this adderall helps tremendously it is also very easy for it to mask or cover up another underlying condition which needs different treatment....

huhwhat?
03-24-11, 12:49 AM
This is interesting. I am curious about the long term effects. However, given some things I have missed out on in life, the struggle to get through each day, and the quality of life. I would rather take 20 years off my life and have a higher quality. I do not feel high on Adderall at all. It actually calms me down a lot. I also do not feel euphoric or overly happy, it has evened out my moods. I feel "normal" on adderall. I feel like I cannot relate to other people and their thought paterns not medicated.

This is all a personal decision everyone has to make, weighing the risk with the gains. I reached my breaking point when I missed several important things because "they slipped my mind" despite being written in my FOUR planners. :)

corbykins
03-24-11, 10:00 PM
My 9 yo daughter looked at me the first night,after taking her Adderall XR that morning, and said "Thank you mom, my day was much better today. My teacher didn't have to tell me to pay attention AT ALL!!! I think my 'concentrating' pill helps me a lot" (homework time is still a hassle tho. The meds seem to have worn off by 3 pm, but there's been a decrease in the amount of work brought home.)

I was hesitant to put my daughter on meds for her ADD, but am glad I did. She is a completely different child, for the better.

this whole thing scares me especially this post. what do you plan on doing when your daughter gets older? ADD doesn't usually go away. but the medications do usually get less effective and even stop working altogether and that causes problems, big problems.
i was about the same age as your daughter when i was put on Adderall XR. It was amazing, I actually could understand what was going on around me i could actually focus long enough to get the instructions for what we were doing in class and actually get the work done! i was able to hold conversations and make friends. there were a few bad side effects but it was worth it until about 2 years ago....
I started noticing it wasnt working as well and was wearing off earlier and earlier. long story short i got really depressed tried lots of meds to try and "help" the adderall. Im currently at 60mg per day and the only reason i am still on it right now is because if i stop taking it i begin to have withdrawal and im currently in the middle of a semester at school.

but you just have to be careful with it take breaks if its possible so that you are not on it 24/7. i know its dumb to do cause if you need it then taking a break from it means taking a break from life, at least for me adderall wasnt just for school its for everyday life to be able to hold a conversation with people etc. i believe there is a way to take the adderall and not have it come to this, but my parents and doctors didnt bother to do any planning or research so here i am stuck in this miserable predicament. :mad:

anyways I know that i am going to have to come off of the adderall when i finish this semester of school in May and i am terrified of this. I have now been on Adderall for 10years. can anyone say it wont be this horrible horrible hell i am imagining when i have to get off it in a couple months?

JPoland
03-28-11, 02:05 PM
My 9 yo daughter looked at me the first night,after taking her Adderall XR that morning, and said "Thank you mom, my day was much better today. My teacher didn't have to tell me to pay attention AT ALL!!! I think my 'concentrating' pill helps me a lot" (homework time is still a hassle tho. The meds seem to have worn off by 3 pm, but there's been a decrease in the amount of work brought home.)

I was hesitant to put my daughter on meds for her ADD, but am glad I did. She is a completely different child, for the better.

It is great that you are giving your daughter a chance to reach her potential and not be alienated by other kids because of her lack of focus. I can remember that happening myself.

this whole thing scares me especially this post. what do you plan on doing when your daughter gets older? ADD doesn't usually go away. but the medications do usually get less effective and even stop working altogether and that causes problems, big problems.
i was about the same age as your daughter when i was put on Adderall XR. It was amazing, I actually could understand what was going on around me i could actually focus long enough to get the instructions for what we were doing in class and actually get the work done! i was able to hold conversations and make friends. there were a few bad side effects but it was worth it until about 2 years ago....
I started noticing it wasnt working as well and was wearing off earlier and earlier. long story short i got really depressed tried lots of meds to try and "help" the adderall. Im currently at 60mg per day and the only reason i am still on it right now is because if i stop taking it i begin to have withdrawal and im currently in the middle of a semester at school.

but you just have to be careful with it take breaks if its possible so that you are not on it 24/7. i know its dumb to do cause if you need it then taking a break from it means taking a break from life, at least for me adderall wasnt just for school its for everyday life to be able to hold a conversation with people etc. i believe there is a way to take the adderall and not have it come to this, but my parents and doctors didnt bother to do any planning or research so here i am stuck in this miserable predicament. :mad:

anyways I know that i am going to have to come off of the adderall when i finish this semester of school in May and i am terrified of this. I have now been on Adderall for 10years. can anyone say it wont be this horrible horrible hell i am imagining when i have to get off it in a couple months?

I've been on Adderall for well over 10 years now everyday. I'm interested to know where you are getting some of your statements from. I have had to up my dosage of adderall over the years but it is still below what many consider to be an extremely high dosage and I have not upped it in over 5 years. I was at my peak dosage in collage when my work load was very heavy and have since been fine with a reduced dosage if I so choose it.

Not to be condescending but let me give you some tips. First is to try taking 1 day where you schedule absolutely nothing to do that day on purpose and don't need to go out. Take no medication that day and then resume your normal dosage after that. Many have reported that the effectiveness of the medication has picked back up if they do that every once in a while (I have not needed to do this yet but have thought about it).
The next thing is more of a philosophical suggestion but why not embrace the help the drug can give you? You seem so set on getting away from it like you are a defective human because you require some modulation to your brain chemistry. Don't be afraid to be on the medication if it helps you.

My personal position on being on adderall for over 10 years and continuing to be on it is that I don't feel like a slave to it whatsoever. Do I need it to function properly in a manor that contributes to society? Yes absolutely. However it is still a choice to take it and I feel no addictive need to take the drug. I like having a job, a car, health insurance, an apartment, a dog, good friends, and so I choose to keep taking the medication.

corbykins
03-28-11, 08:53 PM
I've been on Adderall for well over 10 years now everyday. I'm interested to know where you are getting some of your statements from. I have had to up my dosage of adderall over the years but it is still below what many consider to be an extremely high dosage and I have not upped it in over 5 years. I was at my peak dosage in collage when my work load was very heavy and have since been fine with a reduced dosage if I so choose it.

Not to be condescending but let me give you some tips. First is to try taking 1 day where you schedule absolutely nothing to do that day on purpose and don't need to go out. Take no medication that day and then resume your normal dosage after that. Many have reported that the effectiveness of the medication has picked back up if they do that every once in a while (I have not needed to do this yet but have thought about it).
The next thing is more of a philosophical suggestion but why not embrace the help the drug can give you? You seem so set on getting away from it like you are a defective human because you require some modulation to your brain chemistry. Don't be afraid to be on the medication if it helps you.

My personal position on being on adderall for over 10 years and continuing to be on it is that I don't feel like a slave to it whatsoever. Do I need it to function properly in a manor that contributes to society? Yes absolutely. However it is still a choice to take it and I feel no addictive need to take the drug. I like having a job, a car, health insurance, an apartment, a dog, good friends, and so I choose to keep taking the medication.

most of that is from personal experience or things i have read from other people on forums such as this one. I dont know how you got to be put on the drug, but i was not given a choice. i was against being on it my parents/doctor/teachers someone of these people decided i needed to be on it and my parents decided that was best. i did not understand what ADD, adderall or any of that was at the time. I now know that it is good in some aspects. what do you consider to be a very high dosage? it seems to vary a lot from what i have seen in my reading of various comments.

i was trying to say that in my comment but somehow it did not work out, i think i got a little too caught up in something else. the whole taking a break for a day thing is what i was trying to advise people to do. i try to do it but it is rare to find a day that i do not need to study while i am in school. and without the adderall i dont function as well even having a conversation with someone is extremely difficult. but that basically the point i was trying to get across but i think i just never managed to even get it written at all somehow. i know adderall has done all it can for me unfortunately some of the other drugs that i had bad reactions to didnt help and only made the adderall situation worse for me instead of better. ive been fighting the past year to try to stay on the adderall but its no longer worth it. its over for me but i dont want other people to end up making the same mistakes.

if i come off as angry or trying to challenge you, i am trying to challenge what you are saying to some degree. but only to help myself understand and figure out some things. please forgive me if im being too one sided against the medication the past year has not gone very well for me with various medications.

Naussicaa
03-29-11, 04:39 AM
I always have a love/hate cycle with the drug. It helps me, then I take it for a while, it stops working after a few days, but I continue to take it for a while since for me there is an extended comedown, one where I cannot just stop because I have school and things of that nature, when I can though, I stop taking it and then take it again and the cycle continues.

I like it better after the first 3 days I'm off it. The stuff kills your feelings, or at least it kills mines. I found it strange that people had emotions at all, if you feel that mechanical feeling thats the stimulants working. It doesn't matter to me the dosage either, I don't abuse it and I don't plan to. But its everyday usage that does it. Stop taking it for 3 days and you'll feel it emotions again. I felt terrible the first 3 days, then awesome the days after, then I return to my regular usage again.

ADD is not determined by brain function to the poster who wondered. If that were true, they would do a brain scan to see if you had ADD. Its not clear what the cause is, but its a lack of accomplishment for the person, so they flood the brain with dopamine to make the individual enjoy things. Now since dopamine is related to energy, you sometimes can't sleep.

JPoland
03-29-11, 10:55 AM
most of that is from personal experience or things i have read from other people on forums such as this one. I dont know how you got to be put on the drug, but i was not given a choice. i was against being on it my parents/doctor/teachers someone of these people decided i needed to be on it and my parents decided that was best. i did not understand what ADD, adderall or any of that was at the time. I now know that it is good in some aspects. what do you consider to be a very high dosage? it seems to vary a lot from what i have seen in my reading of various comments.

i was trying to say that in my comment but somehow it did not work out, i think i got a little too caught up in something else. the whole taking a break for a day thing is what i was trying to advise people to do. i try to do it but it is rare to find a day that i do not need to study while i am in school. and without the adderall i dont function as well even having a conversation with someone is extremely difficult. but that basically the point i was trying to get across but i think i just never managed to even get it written at all somehow. i know adderall has done all it can for me unfortunately some of the other drugs that i had bad reactions to didnt help and only made the adderall situation worse for me instead of better. ive been fighting the past year to try to stay on the adderall but its no longer worth it. its over for me but i dont want other people to end up making the same mistakes.

if i come off as angry or trying to challenge you, i am trying to challenge what you are saying to some degree. but only to help myself understand and figure out some things. please forgive me if im being too one sided against the medication the past year has not gone very well for me with various medications.

You're good no worries. I understood what you were saying. That is just your personal experience and hopefully people will see that and factor that into their decisions accordingly. I am glad that you are challenging what I am saying in a constructive way. It may help one or both of us to come to see a different point of view and I am always looking to be enlightened.

I can understand how being forced to take the meds can put a bad taste in your mouth, so to speak. I went through the same thing when I was in my early teen years (I'm 26 now). Eventually though, I reached a point where I wanted to see at what level I could perform on, mentally speaking, if I don't hold back or make excuses so I embraced the meds.

I've gotten to the point where I have been on it for so long that I basically regulate my own dosage now and just tell the doctor that I need to up it to this or can decrease it to that. That is just from my own experience though and I am certainly no doctor myself. Have you considered upping your dosage to see if it helps you anymore? It may be helpful for you in the short term until you are able to finish the semester and stop taking it. I have had to up my dosage throughout the years I've been taking the meds and that is a normal thing.
Currently I am taking 90mg IR in the morning and then 60 mg IR in the afternoon. When I was busting my butt trying to get my undergrad engineering degree I would sometimes have an additional 30 mg in the evening. A lot of people will tell you that is an extremely high dosage but that is coming from their own comparison and from what they have heard from others. I've even had some doctors tell me that is crazy high and how am I alive, lol but experienced psychiatrists have always told me my dosage really isn't THAT high. Keep in mind that dosage is for me to function at peak performance. I can take 40 mg in the AM and 20 mg in the afternoon and still hold a conversation and feel in control all day but solving complex problems will be much more difficult, if at all possible.

I hope your outlook on things improves. You seem pretty down on things at the moment. Good luck to you!

Killface1981
03-29-11, 12:26 PM
Adderall doesn't cause tooth decay like meth(you don't smoke it), but can cause it in younger kids who are less likely to brush their teeth, and drink as much water(they can't control it while in class.) Yes, it will affect your teeth if you don't brush your teeth, and drink nothing but cokes and other unhealthy drinks. Drink green tea with a bit of honey, get enough calcium, and eat healthy. You should have no problem then. This post has a lot of inaccurate information, and yes, amphetamines aren't super healthy for you and quite addictive, but so-be-it.

Eating fried food, red meat, processed food, not working out, drinking carbonated drinks with tons of artificial ingredients instead of water or something wiser, and all these other things are much worse for you than amphetamines.

kiosk
03-29-11, 09:41 PM
Currently I am taking 90mg IR in the morning and then 60 mg IR in the afternoon. When I was busting my butt trying to get my undergrad engineering degree I would sometimes have an additional 30 mg in the evening.

if I may jump in, although after 3 years this med still works great for me I do find in certain days I could use 90-100mg rather than the 60mg I regularly take however I get concerned about side effects......how are you toleraring side effects with your 90/60 dosage? is the comedown harsh? do you get irritability and/or anxiety? hows your sleep? just curious thats all, since am considering asking doc for higher dose next time around, just need full day coverage as much as possible.....

JPoland
03-30-11, 09:59 AM
if I may jump in, although after 3 years this med still works great for me I do find in certain days I could use 90-100mg rather than the 60mg I regularly take however I get concerned about side effects......how are you toleraring side effects with your 90/60 dosage? is the comedown harsh? do you get irritability and/or anxiety? hows your sleep? just curious thats all, since am considering asking doc for higher dose next time around, just need full day coverage as much as possible.....

Honestly I haven't felt side effects in a long time. I used to get very anxious for about 10 minutes every few months but that hasn't happened in a long time. My BP is elevated due to the meds but I exercise pretty often so it is kept in check. It may be something your body needs to adjust to but if you need the dosage then... Sleeping is not a problem for me, I was extremely tired last night at 9:30 and passed right out.
On the other hand, I have had a long time to adjust my meds so that I am coming off right as I no longer need them to really focus. That is the entire reason I never wanted to take XR is because I like having control on the days when I need more or need a little boost at the end of the day to complete a task.
I don't ever feel a "crash" like a lot of people put it. Sometimes when I am busy and I forget to take my afternoon dosage I will begin to notice that my focus is falling off and I immediately realize it is because I have not taken my afternoon dose yet but its not like I'm completely useless for that time.

I hope that helps. I would suggest going ahead and asking your doctor for that if you need it. :)

corbykins
03-30-11, 12:19 PM
You're good no worries. I understood what you were saying. That is just your personal experience and hopefully people will see that and factor that into their decisions accordingly. I am glad that you are challenging what I am saying in a constructive way. It may help one or both of us to come to see a different point of view and I am always looking to be enlightened.

I can understand how being forced to take the meds can put a bad taste in your mouth, so to speak. I went through the same thing when I was in my early teen years (I'm 26 now). Eventually though, I reached a point where I wanted to see at what level I could perform on, mentally speaking, if I don't hold back or make excuses so I embraced the meds.

I've gotten to the point where I have been on it for so long that I basically regulate my own dosage now and just tell the doctor that I need to up it to this or can decrease it to that. That is just from my own experience though and I am certainly no doctor myself. Have you considered upping your dosage to see if it helps you anymore? It may be helpful for you in the short term until you are able to finish the semester and stop taking it. I have had to up my dosage throughout the years I've been taking the meds and that is a normal thing.
Currently I am taking 90mg IR in the morning and then 60 mg IR in the afternoon. When I was busting my butt trying to get my undergrad engineering degree I would sometimes have an additional 30 mg in the evening. A lot of people will tell you that is an extremely high dosage but that is coming from their own comparison and from what they have heard from others. I've even had some doctors tell me that is crazy high and how am I alive, lol but experienced psychiatrists have always told me my dosage really isn't THAT high. Keep in mind that dosage is for me to function at peak performance. I can take 40 mg in the AM and 20 mg in the afternoon and still hold a conversation and feel in control all day but solving complex problems will be much more difficult, if at all possible.

I hope your outlook on things improves. You seem pretty down on things at the moment. Good luck to you!
I have upped my dose it was as high as my psychiatrist would put it. and my body cant handle it and the other meds im on/have been on. im still in a trial error thing with anxiety/depression meds along with the add meds. i sometimes forget to take that into account. i know a lot of people with add tend to have those too but not everyone.

ive actually had to lower the dose slightly which is not helpful for my concentration, but i just cant handle to combined side effects/cant figure out if the side effects are from one drug or the other. for me the xr is more like the ir right now, as i have to take it twice a day. it only seems to last about 4hrs for me when it does have some effect, which for the most part the good effect is either very slight to insignificant compared to the heart racing and anxiety.

i get a little bit down thinking/talking about this cause im quite scared of getting off the adderall. i am anxious to see if i can function without it or find something that will actually help and just not feel so addicted to the adderall anymore. i know its something i need to do for myself but im afraid of what ill be like once i do it and i dont want to lose my friends. its hard to say exactly what scares me that most cause i can barely remember before i was on the adderall because i was so young

hotwheels430
04-07-11, 05:03 PM
My partner has taken 60mg's of this stuff a day. ANGER, TEARS, HOPELESSNESS...all because of withdrawal. Does anyone remember BLACK MOLLIES from the 70's??? THATS WHAT THIS IS!!!!!!

Dolphin Marine
06-06-11, 12:11 AM
I was on adderal for 8yrs!! It was hell getting off but man i promise there is light at the end of the tunnell.....

If you stick this out, if you get thru the withdrawls, the cravings, the emotional roller coaster, the migrains and body feeling like it just got wiped out by an 18 wheeler and you get past the cravings!! Those kicked my butt but I never lost a fight in my life and was not about to start now!!

It literally is hell going thru that... I too wished i had been informed of ALL THE SIDE EFFECTS, ALL THE LONG-TERM DAMAGES TO YOUR INTERNAL BIDY, THE FOR KILLING OGF NERVES AND CELLS IN YOUR BRAIN.

I tell you what; you can do this and everyday you wake up, you make the choice to be sober today!! The rewards and healing your body will get back can not even compare to the unpleasant withdrawls now. It is just the hurt before the hwaling, the dark before the morning!!

I did it too!! Been off of it for 5yrs. Now and staying healthy & happy & full of rwal energy

RRKR3298
06-06-11, 04:25 AM
After 6 years of being on Adderall 40-60 MG a day I decided to stop because I felt like I was a slave to this drug for my energy . Well it is hell and the Dr.'s will tell you it is your ADD coming back ....... no this is someone who was addicted to a powerful Amphetamine and whose life is hell right now from the withdrawals . For me the morning pill was what got me going in the morning and defined who I was all day . My God I read all of these posts and no one seems to talk about the fact that this drug is what is giving them the edge they now need to function ... and not to control there ADD but to keep them high all day . Well for those who have only been on it for a few years well wait till about 5 years + and then try to function without it . I am not trying to scare anyone but I would love to hear from someone who has been on it for over 5 years like I was and then live life without it . I did not realize how much energy it was giving me .

Again I wish someone had told me years ago when I first started it that I would pay dearly for this wonder drug that made me feel so good when I had to get off of it . And yes I do not believe you can stay on it for life ... when you get up to needing about 60 + mg a day in your 4th or 5th year you start to understand the toll an Amphetamine takes on your health over a long period of time . Again this is just my experience and I am looking for someone who has been on it 5 or 6 years to tell me where they are at . As I read these posts I see most people have only got a few years if that on the stuff .


I would risk it for 2 good years of feeling better. If I cant get ritalin or similar, I will drive into a train..............I have had it

johng123
06-21-11, 12:41 PM
I had to make an account so that I could respond to this thread. I have nothing against you taking amphetamine. I am just going to list some simple facts for you guys to think about:

1. ADD/ADHD is not a disorder or disease like schizophrenia or tourettes. You have trouble paying attention in school or class? Its because you are an ape who spent millions of years hunter-gathering and in the last thousand years society has become so different from the environment our species evolved in that it is frustrating to our ape brains. No one in 1900 or before had ADHD. You have trouble concentrating in school because everyone does.
2. Amphetamine has the same effect on every human. It makes you feel good and gives you energy, makes you talk faster, etc. Most people dont have energy and dont feel good, but you people call this ADHD and say that amphetamine is "treating your ADHD".
3. No one likes to be wrong about the way they are living their life. Humans are emotional animals and will confabulate endlessly about the reasons why they are right about something, which is why you are so defensive about your amphetamine. It is my opinion that, because of the absurdness of the environment of modern humans compared to the kind they were living in 100,000 years ago, taking psychoactive drugs may help them function in our absurd society. Just please try to have an open mind about this instead of screaming I NEED AMPHETAMINE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS ENERGY AND CAN FOCUS IN SCHOOL BUT I CANT SO I MUST BE DIFFERENT. You can, you just don't. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to stop fidgeting in class, you would. Do you think people in third world countries or anyone who has lived before amphetamine was invented had ADHD? No.
4. You "need" amphetamine to function? People who take amphetamine to get high are bad but you take it to feel normal so its okay? When amphetamine "helps you function", but does not make you feel high, thats called being a little high instead of very high. There is no threshold where at a certain dosage it makes you high, and .01mg less would make you not high. There is only more or less high.
5. Pharmaceutical companies don't care about you, they just want money. Thats why they can take a generic drug like paroxetine that costs $4 and make an extended release version called Paxil CR and charge $150 for it. Thats why there are so many separate statin drugs that are all basically the same (crestor, lipitor, zocor, etc). They KNOW amphetamine makes everyone feel good and that it will help them with whatever problems they are having so they charge a lot of money for it.
6. I understand how misleading it is that you can be diagnosed with ADHD and yet I am saying it is not a real disorder. Unfortunately the pharmaceutical industry is not as honest as it should be. Doctors are people too, and they are wrong sometimes.

Basically, it comes down to whether you think concentrating is really much easier for everyone else than it is for you. Concentrating in school is not fun and people don't like to do it, but they do it anyway. You may believe that it is harder for you to concentrate than it is for other people, but is that any different from a fat person saying that exercise is harder for them than it is for other people? Sometimes you need to admit to yourself that you just need to man up and do something that is difficult to do. People in third world countries get along fine without antidepressants or amphetamine. I completely understand anyone wanting to take amphetamine, because it helps everyone function, feel good and get things done. But don't say that you need it and that other people don't.

ADDinSRQ
06-23-11, 06:26 PM
First of all, you don't just stop taking any medication. Withdrawals are hell. However, it is allot easier to come off it if you ease your self away from it. I'd go off my medications during Christmas break for school and I would slowly cut my does every day for about a week or so. This made the side effects a lot less noticeable.

This is a chemical and your body is dependent on it to stay awake. If you stop suddenly you'll be a mess. Slowly reducing the amount you take will let you body adjust. I was on adderall for well into 10 years and took a year off because I couldn't afford it. Your body adjusts to the lack of medication and you can function normal again but with all the lovely effects of ADD.

Both you and the doctor are half right. You are getting you're ADD symptoms back and you are getting withdraws at the same time. So welcome to double hell.

johng123
06-30-11, 10:26 AM
You are getting you're ADD symptoms back and you are getting withdraws at the same time.

No, just withdrawals. Everyone has ADD.

ADDinSRQ
07-03-11, 04:47 PM
Johng123, you obviously have never experienced what some of us go through. You have never had to read the same sentence 3 times just to grasp what it meant because your mind keeps wondering somewhere else. You must not frequently lose things or miss place everything because you were not paying attention to where you put it. People like us do this frequently and there is definitely something wrong with our brains. And to bring up the evolution thing, people like us wouldn't have been very useful back in the hunter gather days or even in the agricultural days. To hunt takes concentration and same goes for plowing and planting.

Not only this, but brain scans of those who suffer with ADHD do show significant differences in the brains function, just like those with turrets, OCD, or bipolar disorder. Just because every teacher wants to give a hyper 5 year old Adderall to make them shut up doesn't mean that there are people that really suffer from this issue. They have also shown that genetics can play a part in ones propensity for this disorder.

I will say this however, that just because you are born with this genetic abnormality doesn't mean you would get it. From what I've been studying I have come to the conclusion that ADD may be a result from the foods we eat. Industrialized food manufactures put allot of crap in their pre-packaged foods. They remove a lot of nutrients from our foods and pump it full of artificial vitamins and nutrients in order to extend the shelf life of their products. Some people's bodies are able to handle this with out much affect on the brain, but I don't think ours can. Unfortunately we've been eating this crap sense we were kids and the damage has already been done.

Back on topic: To function in this society people need to have an education which means concentration is needed (unless you want to do back breaking labor, but even then some concentration is needed). I mean sure you can function with severe ADD and have a job where not much concentration is needed, but you'll be working twice as hard for one-fifth the pay. So will you die because of ADD? No. But unless you can make a living as an artist or have some other natural talent that doesn't take a lot of concentration, medication is absolutely necessary.

johng123
07-22-11, 11:14 AM
Johng123, you obviously have never experienced what some of us go through. You have never had to read the same sentence 3 times just to grasp what it meant because your mind keeps wondering somewhere else.
Wrong.

Not only this, but brain scans of those who suffer with ADHD do show significant differences in the brains function, just like those with turrets, OCD, or bipolar disorder.
Don't reference scientific studies that you have not read and do not understand.

ADD is not a real disease because it is diagnosed on the basis of subjective criteria. borntoexplore.org/DSM.htm If you meet 6 out of 9 of the criteria for either type of ADD, you can be diagnosed. Things like "<small><small>Often talks excessively." or </small></small>"<small><small>Often leaves seat in classroom or other situation where it is inappropriate." or "</small></small><small><small>Often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly." or </small></small>"<small><small>Often blurts out answers before questions have been completed"</small></small> or "<small><small>Often has difficulty awaiting turn." or "</small></small><small><small>Is often forgetful in daily activities</small>." or "</small><small><small>Often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities."</small></small> or "<small><small>Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.".</small></small> or "<small><small>Often avoids, dislikes or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)."</small></small>
And on and on. I wish these criteria were a joke, but they are not. You don't like doing homework? That's because no one does. The word "often" is subjective. Saying someone is more hyperactive than "normal" is subjective. If someone put a gun to your head you would be able to stop figeting and do your homework, you would. If someone put a gun to the head of someone with Tourette's, they would not be able to stop twitching. If someone put a gun to the head of someone with depression, they would not be able to stop being sad. If someone put a gun to the head of someone with schizophrenia, they would not be able to stop hearing voices.
Then again, you don't even know what the DSM is. You probably don't know what subjective means. You just convinced yourself that everything must be easier for everyone else than it is for you. My only problem with ADD is that eventually everyone is going to have to take Adderall to stay competitive in the academic world, like steroids with athletes. Basically, stop being babies and face the fact that school is hard for everyone. Ritalin was invented before ADD was. ADD was created to be a disease which a drug they already invented could now treat and make pharmaceutical companies money.

TygerSan
07-22-11, 11:48 AM
Don't reference scientific studies that you have not read and do not understand.And don't assume that people who are referencing studies *don't* understand what they're referencing. I read scientific literature for my day job. There are real, structural differences in the brains of some of us with ADHD. No, we don't know what causes it, but we don't know what causes Schizophrenia or tourettes either. Everything psychiatric is based on what you call "subjective" criteria (by which I think you mean descriptive). But so was tuberculosis 100 years ago (ever heard of consumption?) We have to give the field time to evolve to the point where we *can* diagnose based on eitiology or cause.

Basically, stop being babies and face the fact that school is hard for everyone. Ritalin was invented before ADD was. ADD was created to be a disease which a drug they already invented could now treat and make pharmaceutical companies money.Again, be very, very careful where you're going with this. This is a *support* forum. . . Many of us have been told to suck it up so bloody many times it's not even funny. Right now you're devaluing the experience of a large majority of people who post to this forum.

Remember, the original topic is about adderall withdrawals, *not*a debate over whether or not ADHD currently exists.

BR549
07-22-11, 01:40 PM
I had to make an account so that I could respond to this thread. I have nothing against you taking amphetamine.

1. ADD/ADHD is not a disorder or disease like schizophrenia or tourettes. You have trouble paying attention in school or class? You have trouble concentrating in school because everyone does.

2. Amphetamine has the same effect on every human. It makes you feel good and gives you energy, makes you talk faster, etc. Most people dont have energy and dont feel good, but you people call this ADHD and say that amphetamine is "treating your ADHD".

3. No one likes to be wrong about the way they are living their life. Humans are emotional animals and will confabulate endlessly about the reasons why they are right about something, which is why you are so defensive about your amphetamine. Just please try to have an open mind about this instead of screaming I NEED AMPHETAMINE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS ENERGY AND CAN FOCUS IN SCHOOL BUT I CANT SO I MUST BE DIFFERENT. You can, you just don't. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to stop fidgeting in class, you would. Do you think people in third world countries or anyone who has lived before amphetamine was invented had ADHD? No.

4. You "need" amphetamine to function? People who take amphetamine to get high are bad but you take it to feel normal so its okay? When amphetamine "helps you function", but does not make you feel high, thats called being a little high instead of very high. There is no threshold where at a certain dosage it makes you high, and .01mg less would make you not high. There is only more or less high.

Basically, it comes down to whether you think concentrating is really much easier for everyone else than it is for you. Concentrating in school is not fun and people don't like to do it, but they do it anyway. You may believe that it is harder for you to concentrate than it is for other people, but is that any different from a fat person saying that exercise is harder for them than it is for other people? Sometimes you need to admit to yourself that you just need to man up and do something that is difficult to do. People in third world countries get along fine without antidepressants or amphetamine. I completely understand anyone wanting to take amphetamine, because it helps everyone function, feel good and get things done. But don't say that you need it and that other people don't.

I'm confused regarding your post. You made an account here specifically to answer this thread? Not to offer support, help or advice, but to specifically answer this thread? You don't have a problem with taking amphetamines but don't want to hear anyone 'scream' they need it or that they can't function without it. So, what is your beef then? Is that we take it? Is that ADHD doesn't exist in your opinion? Is it that people scream they need to it concentrate in school?

You don't believe in ADHD. That is is a disorder. So, I can assume that you have no idea what it's like to have ADHD. Or possibly another disorder, such as Autism, BPD, Bi-Polar or depression? Or how these disorders disrupt lives and effect those who have to live with people who have these disorders. Putting that aside, I'd like to address some of your comments.

Everyone does NOT have trouble paying attention in school, at work, etc. Sure some things are boring and everyone's mind wanders a bit, but that is NOT how it is for people with ADHD. At all. But then, of course, if you knew that, you wouldn't be posting here.

Amphetamines do NOT affect everyone the same way. They don't make all of us talk faster, feel good or give us energy. If an amphetamine made us feel good or gave us (by 'us' I mean those with ADHD) energy, we wouldn't need to treat our depression or anxiety. We wouldn't need to make sure we continue to eat a balanced diet and get plenty of rest. We'd always have energy and feel great. That's just now how it is. Talking faster? Really? No. It actually does the opposite many times. It slows us down. Allows us to think before we act or react. We don't sound like some record put on a faster speed. Again, if you knew that you wouldn't be posting that here.

Defensive about our amphetamine?? Hell YES we are defensive!!! Why? It's because we have to constantly defend ourselves. Not just because of the ADHD medications some of us take, but the disorder itself. Because people like you tell us ADHD isn't real. Isn't a disorder. That we should suck it up and try harder. This is why these forums exist. For people with these disorders to come here and feel safe and secure discussing their situations. We get enough judgement in the outside world from people who don't think ADHD is real and that we are all on speed.

Do we need ADHD medication? Yes, some of us DO. But not everyone who has ADHD is on medication. Just like diabetes, not every diabetic is on medication.

We don't get high on methylphenidate or amphetamines. Not even a little. I know the difference between getting high and taking low dose amphetamine. We aren't high on Adderall or Ritalin. I'm not sure where you get your information about "there is only more or less high". If you have evidence, scientific evidence, to back up that statement, I'd love to see it. If you had an understanding of how these medications work, you'd know that people who take them aren't a little high. On a therapeutic dose there is NO HIGH from these medications.

You may have this forum confused with a SWIM forum where those people abuse ADHD medications in order to get high. We aren't crushing and snorting our meds. We are taking them to help us. People with ADHD aren't medicated 24/7. We still have to 'man up' as you put it and learn how to deal with ADHD when we aren't taking the medication.

Perhaps you are lumping everyone who has ADHD and takes an amphetamine or methylphenidate for treatment with those who obtain it and take it for academic performance? If you'd take the time to look around here you'll see that there isn't any tolerance for people who obtain these medications-legally or illegally- and use them solely for that purpose.

We get defensive of ADHD medications when they are abused. When they are obtained solely for doing well in school or to get high. In other words, by people who do not have ADHD, did not obtain a prescription or obtained it by lying to their doctor.

As far as third world countries and depression and ADHD, do you know how people with mental disorders are treated in those countries? Some are locked up in rooms and starved to death. So, you are right there. There are no drugs to treat ADHD or depression in third world countries. There are also no drugs to treat a vast array of illnesses and disorders in third world countries so people are left to suffer and die.

If you don't care that amphetamines are taken, then why did you post here? Just to tell us ADHD doesn't exist and that we are all really getting high when we take them? Are you just wanting everyone here to agree with you? Because that's just not going to happen. You've wasted your time.

selita
07-22-11, 02:56 PM
Hey, I totally believe in the Hunter vs. Farmer theory, that ADHD is beneficial in some circumstances, that ADHD is not even a disease or true disorder except in very severe cases.

However, it's still a maladaptive brain difference to most people in modern society. Because it's undervalued, underrecognized, and misunderstood by society, people with ADHD are subjected to criticism, failure, and rejection.

I'd be happy as a clam if society would change to suit the way I think, instead of kicking me every time my coping skills let me down, until I'm finally compelled to use often unpleasant drugs so I can get to work on time and earn money to pay the bills.

Impromptu_DTour
07-22-11, 05:28 PM
John ;)

You've managed to .. well i dont know what it is that you did here exactly.. but you should feel proud of yourself. Its really quite beautiful. I honestly think this should be stickied, yea?

It takes true skill and effort to be so grossly inaccurate about something thats been so thoroughly researched, and proven with empirical evidence, as well as identified in the human genome.. i mean.. this obviously wasnt by accident.

I know true art when i see it fine sir.. and this masterpiece that you have blessed us with is not something that cannot be faked easily. This is natural talent! This takes true skill!

I couldnt havnt done better myself! I could even try to re-write the book on "The Truth Behind PMS" (as i see it) and not even come close (cause i know nothing about PMS or ever could! LOL!! yea buddy! I see what you did there you sly dog you). :cool:

But to play it off like you actually believe that you know what your talking about, while pretending to be so uninformed.. you even deliberately misdefined what ADHD actually is! LMAO!! That's bold, sir..

Real bold ;) Very risque. I might open up that bottle of Tempranillo ive been saving for just such an occasion. Im very proud of this moment.

The moment that I witnessed such a brilliantly well played ruse.

I can tell you are an intellectual man with a brilliant appetite for knowledge and culture,

And so i doth seek thee to enjoy upon this moment such, with me:

Captain of our fairy band,
Helena is here at hand,
And the youth, mistook by me,
Pleading for a lover's fee.
Shall we their fond pageant see?
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
-Puck
(Midsummer Nights Dream Act 3 Scene 2)


*pause in awe* .. wow =)

You sir are a genius. I applaud you.

I would like to reference you to this article (http://www.dafk.net/what/) for our next encounter..

Keep up the good work.

My deepest respect,

I_DTour

Lunacie
07-22-11, 06:09 PM
Johng123,

ADHD symptoms most certainly pre-date 1900, it just didn't have a medical name until then. Before that it was called "lazy" or "scatterbrained" or "immature" or names like that. Read about "Fidgety Phillip (http://www.adult-child-add-adhd.com/categories/general/history_adhd.php)" which was written around 1845. Physician Sir Alexander Crichton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Crichton) describes "mental restlessness" in his book written in 1798.


You are right about ADHD being a spectrum disorder, that everyone has some of these traits, more noticable during times of stress. When the traits become incapacitating and make living very difficult, they can be diagnosed as a mental disorder - yes, just like Tourettes and Bipolar. You don't think hunters and gatherers also had stress and displayed traits of ADHD? Think again.


Why do pharmaceutical companies get a bad rep for marketing and selling meds to treat ADHD but not for meds to treat cancer? Those meds are waaaaay more expensive.


How do you know that people in third world countries get along just fine without a diagnosis of ADHD or treatments for the disorder? Maybe those are the people you see begging by the side of the road because they can't even hold the jobs no one else wants. Maybe some of the jobs there are more suited to people with this disorder than the jobs that are available in the US are.


10 years ago I knew even less about ADHD than you seem to know, but I wasn't demonstrating my ignorance on a forum where people have taken the time to read the research and know what they're talking about. Please set aside your prejudices and read some of the really great threads all over this forum. You just might learn something new.

mctavish23
07-22-11, 09:22 PM
johng123,

Let me say this please... (some of which has already been said by

Lunacie and others)

As someone with severe ADHD-Combined Type,diagnosed as Minimal Brain

Damage (MBD) in 1972 @age 22 (60yrs-9mos old),and who has worked as

a Licensed Clinical /Child Psychologist in Minnesota for 27 + years,with a

specialty practice of children (age 10and up),adolescents & young adults

(thru approx. age 25),98% of whom have (authentic) ADHD, I've spent the

last 25 years studying ADHD.

After training with Russell Barkley PhD 8years ago, I've used the ensuing time

to turn my practice into the only evidence based (empirically/research) sup-

-ported practice in this area.

The point is, I'll NEVER quote you (or anyone else) something that I haven't

read.

No one has read "everything," as that's impossible.

However, if I'm aware of something that I haven't read, then I'll make that

clear and then post the references.

As the person I dedicated my Master's Thesis in Clinical Psych to, NATURE

BOY RIC FLAIR was so fond of saying...."NOW WE GO TO SCHOOL." :cool:


1) As for no one having heard of ADHD before 1900...

The first research study on what is now considered to be ADHD, was in

1798, by Scottish MD, Alexander Crichton : "An Inquiry into the Nature

and Origin of Mental Derangement."

In the article,which I've read more than once, he mentions "mental

restlessness," which is considered to be the first ever scientific document-

-ation of what would be now considered ADHD-PI Type.

2)Lunacie also correctly pointed out Heinrich Hoffman's popular poem

"Fidgety Phil," from the 1860's.

3)ADHD is THE most widely researched childhood disorder/developmental

disability on earth.

4)ADHD is also THE most (#1) genetically determined/inherited psychiatric

disorder listed in the DSM-IV TR ( Autism is #2).

5)Historically, over the last 20+ years,the genetic contribution for ADHD,

has been (on average),greater than human height or IQ.

6) The LANDMARK studies on diminished metabolic capacity,molecular

genetics and treatment modalities (Zametkin,et.al.,1990, Cook,et.al.,1995,

and the MTA Study,1999) are STILL valid today .


(Before someone jumps "up and down" about Zametkin being replicated, he

WAS able to do that in 1993,with a sample of adolescent females).


As for Adderall withdrawal,which I took for approx. 5+ years, each person

and their respective body chemistries are unique.

What works for one may not work for another; to say nothing of individual

tolerance levels.

I was taking 100 mg of Adderall daily (XR 60mg & reg Adderall 40mg).

IT PUT ME TO SLEEP.

I now take 140 mg of Vyvanse, which works great.

In closing, here's a piece of blunt advice along the lines of RIGHT BACK AT

YOU :

YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE AND DON'T SHOOT YOUR MOUTH

OFF ABOUT RESEARCH YOU HAVEN'T READ EITHER, as it works both ways.

In closing, I LIVE for stuff like this,so THANK YOU.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

MentalNomad
07-22-11, 09:31 PM
Does extensive stimulant use cause cortical atrophy? I haven't verified this information in anyway and figured I'd put forth the question.

425runner
07-22-11, 10:57 PM
I must say that the withdrawal sucks!! I tried quitting cold turkey but became extremely depressed, even suicidal and had to start again. Happened the same day! My doctor put me back on Wellbutrin and suggested to take less and less meds everyday so that's what I've been doing. Also, I started taking NAC, Idebenone, Phosphatidyl serine and blueberry extract as these are anti-oxidants and nutrients good for the brain.

mctavish23
07-22-11, 11:17 PM
I haven't heard that,however, you have to operationally

define "extensive."

In addition, ADHD individual's are known to have smaller brain's,

with respect to volume(when compared with their same age/same

gender, non-ADHD peers).

There would be a lot to control for besides those factors, such as prior

histories of chemical dependency/substance abuse and alcoholism,etc.

To the best of my knowledge, I've never heard or read anything to that

effect.

However, that doesn't mean squat though.

One of the truly great things about the FORUM is the amount of knowledge

and expertise that exists among the members.

I've truly learned a great deal in here and hope to continue.

Your question on cortical atrophy was an excellent one.

I'm hoping someone can come up with some references for us to

read further on.

Thank you again.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

MentalNomad
07-22-11, 11:31 PM
^^Ah, thank you. However, I'm in no way validating the implicit statement nestled within my question. You are right that there are many factors to account for, before attributing it to stimulant use would be folly without knowing all the facts.


Amphetamines are central nervous system stimulants. They are among the most commonly abused illicit drugs after cannabis.<SUP sizset="31" sizcache="1">[1] (javascript:newshowcontent('active','references'); )</SUP> Mounting evidence shows that illicit users expose themselves to substantial risk of brain injury in frontal and subcortical regions.


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723675_2

Don't have time or patience to read full article.

mctavish23
07-22-11, 11:47 PM
lol

Is that a trick question?

I'll take a shot at it, sure.

It might take a little while to post my response,because

I have to go out of town tomorrow, but yes, I will read it.

Thank you.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

MentalNomad
07-23-11, 12:02 AM
Haha, not sure what you mean by trick question, but yes I would appreciate your expertise, your tutelage under Barkley is very impressive.

Also, yes, I know cortical/subcortical damage isn't the same as atrophy, but effects are similar and can be at times nearly indistinguishable.

reconism
07-24-11, 01:34 AM
I had to make an account so that I could respond to this thread. I have nothing against you taking amphetamine. I am just going to list some simple facts for you guys to think about:

1. ADD/ADHD is not a disorder or disease like schizophrenia or tourettes. You have trouble paying attention in school or class? Its because you are an ape who spent millions of years hunter-gathering and in the last thousand years society has become so different from the environment our species evolved in that it is frustrating to our ape brains. No one in 1900 or before had ADHD. You have trouble concentrating in school because everyone does.
2. Amphetamine has the same effect on every human. It makes you feel good and gives you energy, makes you talk faster, etc. Most people dont have energy and dont feel good, but you people call this ADHD and say that amphetamine is "treating your ADHD".
3. No one likes to be wrong about the way they are living their life. Humans are emotional animals and will confabulate endlessly about the reasons why they are right about something, which is why you are so defensive about your amphetamine. It is my opinion that, because of the absurdness of the environment of modern humans compared to the kind they were living in 100,000 years ago, taking psychoactive drugs may help them function in our absurd society. Just please try to have an open mind about this instead of screaming I NEED AMPHETAMINE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS ENERGY AND CAN FOCUS IN SCHOOL BUT I CANT SO I MUST BE DIFFERENT. You can, you just don't. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to stop fidgeting in class, you would. Do you think people in third world countries or anyone who has lived before amphetamine was invented had ADHD? No.
4. You "need" amphetamine to function? People who take amphetamine to get high are bad but you take it to feel normal so its okay? When amphetamine "helps you function", but does not make you feel high, thats called being a little high instead of very high. There is no threshold where at a certain dosage it makes you high, and .01mg less would make you not high. There is only more or less high.
5. Pharmaceutical companies don't care about you, they just want money. Thats why they can take a generic drug like paroxetine that costs $4 and make an extended release version called Paxil CR and charge $150 for it. Thats why there are so many separate statin drugs that are all basically the same (crestor, lipitor, zocor, etc). They KNOW amphetamine makes everyone feel good and that it will help them with whatever problems they are having so they charge a lot of money for it.
6. I understand how misleading it is that you can be diagnosed with ADHD and yet I am saying it is not a real disorder. Unfortunately the pharmaceutical industry is not as honest as it should be. Doctors are people too, and they are wrong sometimes.

Basically, it comes down to whether you think concentrating is really much easier for everyone else than it is for you. Concentrating in school is not fun and people don't like to do it, but they do it anyway. You may believe that it is harder for you to concentrate than it is for other people, but is that any different from a fat person saying that exercise is harder for them than it is for other people? Sometimes you need to admit to yourself that you just need to man up and do something that is difficult to do. People in third world countries get along fine without antidepressants or amphetamine. I completely understand anyone wanting to take amphetamine, because it helps everyone function, feel good and get things done. But don't say that you need it and that other people don't.


According to your post, and based on my own inferences, you are not open-minded, nor will anything I say change your bias. However, as a person who has experienced that opposite side, I am aware that what you are reading, and are about to read, will make you question yourself. I will now commence the destruction of your bias.


I'll be kind (no.. not really) and start with your opening.

I had to make an account so that I could respond to this thread. I have nothing against you taking amphetamine. I am just going to list some simple facts for you guys to think about:

Hmm, so that you could respond to an internet thread; a place where contact is what you think to be secure and your identity is safe (heh, according to computer forensics and ISP monitoring you have no privacy). I will use chronological sequencing so you take in the information more gradually than you otherwise would; I want you to comprehend the full scope of your own bias.

You see, you revealed multiple things about your self just from those statements. We ADHDers are knowledgeable enough to figure it out even without you stating it; you are deeply bothered by something or everything that involves adhd and/or is related to it. Your second sentence was about amphetamines, and since this forum is for ADHD and the primary focus is NOT amphetamines, we can conclude that according to your first and second sentences, your stumbling across these adhd forums is because you were interested in amphetamine-related information. Had you not been against us taking amphetamines, you wouldn't have even registered here (oh man, so the thing bothering you is us taking legal amphetamines?!).

By the way, one of the more important aspects of critical thinking is to analyze your data and evaluate whether there is a source, if the source is credible, or if neither are present. Some of these simple facts you listed aren't facts, have no source, and are definitely not credible.

Lets move on to your first set of "facts":
ADD/ADHD is not a disorder or disease like schizophrenia or tourettes. You have trouble paying attention in school or class? Its because you are an ape who spent millions of years hunter-gathering and in the last thousand years society has become so different from the environment our species evolved in that it is frustrating to our ape brains. No one in 1900 or before had ADHD. You have trouble concentrating in school because everyone does.

Before I begin, I would like to see your Ph.D in medicine. Oh, that's right, you don't have one. No doctor with a Ph.D would leave such an uninformed post. It doesn't matter who they are. Do you know why? It's because they know things that you do NOT know. This doesn't just involve medicine either, it also involves multiple aspects of all fields in psychology, because it is necessary to have a specific set of skills to be able to identify and reason adequately. If you had this set of skills, your post wouldn't be here. You would have been able to realize that if ADHD didn't exist, it wouldn't have been defined in medicine. There is proof that allows ADHD to be DEFINED and DIAGNOSED. Many people have come before you trying to convince others that ADHD is not real, and all of those many people have failed; just as you have.

It's funny how you stated that ADD/ADHD is not a disorder or disease like schizophrenia or tourettes when you have provided us with no conclusive research, study outcomes, sources, or credibility to any of the latter backing up your statements. I have tourettes, adhd, ocd, sleeping disorders, depression, lupus, diabetes, and human morals. I have other brothers and sisters, three of which have schizophrenia, narcolepsy, adhd, austism(low functioning), aspergers(name for high-functioning), clinical depression, and among those other physical issues such as IBS and hypertension. I'm fully aware of co-morbid issues and overlapping symptoms appearing to be the criteria of other illnesses; therefore your reasoning here is even more than invalid, it is void+absolute. I'm sure that if someone gave you the resources to argue that my tourettes and sleeping disorders cause my adhd on an equal level you wouldn't even be able to comprehend it. I just made reference to some old research studies that I guarantee you know absolutely nothing about.

On to your second sentence.

Third.. plenty of people had ADHD according to criteria as identified in modern science based on past recorded observations from the years before 1900. Do your research. Just so I don't contradict myself, I'll give you one name: Leonardo da Vinci.

As for your criticism against attention and concentration issues, it has very little validity in the face of ADHD, because individuals with ADHD have trouble even with medicine and CBT therapy. However, it is true that everybody does experience attention and concentration issues, but those with ADHD are forcefully subject to it and generally can not will through it.

I've finished deconstructing your first argument, however I've left something unnoted that I want you to think of. ADHD does not exists therefore AUTISM does not exist. If you say AUTISM exists, then you must agree that ADHD exists. Both of these are neurological disorders that heavily affect a person's over-all development and performance. I have a paper trail starting from birth, do you have the same paper trail giving you the right to say that I do not have ADHD?

2. Amphetamine has the same effect on every human. It makes you feel good and gives you energy, makes you talk faster, etc. Most people dont have energy and dont feel good, but you people call this ADHD and say that amphetamine is "treating your ADHD".

I'm sorry, did you forget how to use the internet to accumulate information related to your thoughts and ideas? This opinion of yours is appalling. Again you have revealed information about yourself by creating an ADHD stereotype (he who has not energy nor happiness must be a person with adhd) that fortunately doesn't exist. What you're doing here is projecting yourself upon others(most people means that you believe a majority is this way; this is a manifestation of your own feelings). You have revealed to me that you do not feel good, have no energy, have lots of concentration issues and attention issues, and adhd. You stated it yourself, and you contradict yourself entirely. You said that most people call it ADHD, when in true fact, they do not.

I know I skipped passed your first two sentences, but it is more appropriate this way. Amphetamines have an entirely different effect on every human. This is because every human's biological structure is different; no two persons have the same biological structure, therefore no two persons have the exact same perceptions, thus one who takes amphetamines will have a different sense of perception than all others, right down to single neurons. Gives everyone energy, makes them feel good, talk faster? Amphetamines assist me to STOP talking, and even more-so to SLEEP at night. I am my own evidence. Also, amphetamines do not treat my ADHD, they assist me in treating myself.

3. No one likes to be wrong about the way they are living their life. Humans are emotional animals and will confabulate endlessly about the reasons why they are right about something, which is why you are so defensive about your amphetamine. It is my opinion that, because of the absurdness of the environment of modern humans compared to the kind they were living in 100,000 years ago, taking psychoactive drugs may help them function in our absurd society. Just please try to have an open mind about this instead of screaming I NEED AMPHETAMINE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS ENERGY AND CAN FOCUS IN SCHOOL BUT I CANT SO I MUST BE DIFFERENT. You can, you just don't. If someone put a gun to your head and told you to stop fidgeting in class, you would. Do you think people in third world countries or anyone who has lived before amphetamine was invented had ADHD? No.

You're right, people don't like to be wrong. However, not all people will continue a conversation in which they are wrong and have been proven so. Many people will accept that they are wrong and be open-minded to a less narrow viewpoint; therefore constructing new opinions.

Thanks for your open-mindedness (whoops, I meant lack-of open-mindedness). Our society is only absurd to those that perceive it to be such. You can compare us to a civilization from 100,000 years ago, but we are here now, in the present, and not there, in the past. This is a new age, not an old one.

If someone put a gun to my head commanding that I stop fidgeting I wouldn't; this is because I can't, understand? However, according to yourself, if someone put a gun to your head and demanded that you blow them or kill someone, we're sure you would, because your only concern in the world is yourself. That is why society is absurd to you, because you have nothing to help it bare fruit. Amphetamines have helped individuals bare fruit for society; what have you done for society?

4. You "need" amphetamine to function? People who take amphetamine to get high are bad but you take it to feel normal so its okay? When amphetamine "helps you function", but does not make you feel high, thats called being a little high instead of very high. There is no threshold where at a certain dosage it makes you high, and .01mg less would make you not high. There is only more or less high.

So amphetamines make you high? You've used amphetamines? You don't have ADHD? Do I smell a felony?

Maybe you just live a completely sheltered life that hasn't confronted a single hardship; maybe it's the opposite and you're blaming everyone else for your problems rather than searching for a way to fix those problems. In any case, your frustration is in the wrong place; if not, it is in the wrong form.

Amphetamines do indeed have a "high effect" if you want to think of it that way. It will never vanish; this is because it modulates dopamine. I love this particular set of your statements however, because you have revealed the final piece of chaos in order for me to see your being as a whole. It goes kind of like this:

ADHD is real, amphetamines treat ADHD, amphetamines do not regulate dopamine, therefore amphetamines do not make people high; therefore ADHD is real and amphetamines do not make people high.

If that was the case, you wouldn't have posted. The whole purpose of you posting here was because you wanted to alleviate the frustrations you feel about ADHD individuals using amphetamines, a substance which unfortunately makes people high and can be very addictive in large doses, when you cannot. If it had no euphoric or energizing effects on people, you wouldn't even know what it is. That's because your focus this whole time was on the "high" aspect of the medication; did you forget that the mechanism of action with amphetamines is not fully understood? There could be various other reasons amphetamines helps individuals with ADHD.

5. Pharmaceutical companies don't care about you, they just want money. Thats why they can take a generic drug like paroxetine that costs $4 and make an extended release version called Paxil CR and charge $150 for it. Thats why there are so many separate statin drugs that are all basically the same (crestor, lipitor, zocor, etc). They KNOW amphetamine makes everyone feel good and that it will help them with whatever problems they are having so they charge a lot of money for it.

You're right on most of it, but adderall seems to make plenty of people feel like utter crap. I'll give you a cookie for actually stating something that's true, though. The first three sentences in the quote, in case you didn't catch on.

6. I understand how misleading it is that you can be diagnosed with ADHD and yet I am saying it is not a real disorder. Unfortunately the pharmaceutical industry is not as honest as it should be. Doctors are people too, and they are wrong sometimes.

You're not even educated in medicine yet you think you have the right to claim someone with adhd is being diagnosed with a disorder that does not exist? My foot stool just broke and I'm searching for a new one.

Basically, it comes down to whether you think concentrating is really much easier for everyone else than it is for you. Concentrating in school is not fun and people don't like to do it, but they do it anyway. You may believe that it is harder for you to concentrate than it is for other people, but is that any different from a fat person saying that exercise is harder for them than it is for other people? Sometimes you need to admit to yourself that you just need to man up and do something that is difficult to do. People in third world countries get along fine without antidepressants or amphetamine. I completely understand anyone wanting to take amphetamine, because it helps everyone function, feel good and get things done. But don't say that you need it and that other people don't.

Basically, it all comes down to you wanting amphetamines and since you can't have it, we can't have it. You contradicted yourself. Exercise can be physically harder for a fat person than other people not of the same size; this is because of strength and endurance of muscle mass, the extra weight makes it harder for them to stay physically active. You can simulate this by purchasing a full-body weight suit of at least 65 pounds, let me know how easy it is for you to eat with it, sleep with it, shower with it, run with it, and do anything that ultimately involves use of your consciousness with it. They teach you these things in school yet you have failed to show us you learned anything.

I've heard plenty of people say that school is absolutely easy, they've breezed through it without problems, no issues with concentration or attention. I've heard plenty of people say the exact opposite. This is directly correlated with neurological science, something that your mind is incapable of comprehending like much of this post.

You don't even know enough about third world countries to say that people in these third world countries get along fine; hey wait, didn't you say society was absurd? If people get along what's absurd about that?

Lastly, you're a hypocrite. You speak of open-mindedness yet you do not appreciate the meaning of it. You tell people not to say what they believe, yet you are saying what you believe.

Good day to you.

APSJ
07-24-11, 05:19 PM
This thread, which is over six years old, appears to have run its productive course as a discussion relevant to the issue of withdrawal in the use of Adderall for the treatment of ADHD.

Thread closed.