I started taking Adderall XR about a month ago and really like the effect that it has had on my life. My wife and three kids are starting to like me again. I am starting to like me again.

My question is about writing computer programs. I was able to harness my hyper-focus and really crank out code. I used the creative advantage of my ADD to write some pretty slick stuff. Since taking Adderall I struggle with seeing the "big picture" and remaining involved in writing the code. Anybody else?

Because I have not had a problem during "work" hours, I am thinking about taking my Adderall XR in the early afternoon so that my family gets the benefits.

I drink alot of coffee (decaf now) and want to know if this affects how the Addreall works.

Last, I used to smoke a couple a day and now feel like I could smoke a pack a day. Any thoughts?

Cool that you've found a job that so suits your ADHD that the medication gets in the way. No reason you have to take it at work - it's there to help you when you need it, after all. One problem however - If you take Adderall XR in the afternoon, you are going to have a little trouble falling asleep! I would highly recommend switching to a regular release formulation - plain old Adderall, not the XR - so that you aren't up all night. "Plain" Adderall will last around 5 to 6 hours - XR more like 12. Decaf shouldn't affect Adderall - too much caffeine isn't good mostly due to overstimulation.

Thanks for the help. I am in the process of accepting that my ADHD is bigger than me and just knowing I have it has been a great thing!

I love working with technology but I'm not a typical "geek" and I thank my ADHD for that!

My Dr gave the regular to take towards the end of the day, but it does not seem to have the same affect as the XR.

Another Adderall XR question....I have tried 10mg, 20mg and 30mg a day and feel confortable most of the time with 10mg. I have also found that taking 10mg at 6am and then another 10mg around noon seems to work pretty well (with the exception of trying to write code). Is it OK to keep adjusting my dose? I mean can I take 10mg one day and then 20mg the next day if I think I need it?

I'd check with your doctor, but I do this - vary the dosage by how I feel. I make sure that I'm not upping the dose slowly as time goes on, being cognicent of the potential problems of increaseing dosages, etc. 10/20/30 mg of Adderall per day isn't going to get you into any "trouble" - it's not a large amount of amphetamine, really.

Thanks again!

By the way what is a "Chemical Moderator"?

Interesting question. I'm a SW developer and just started Ritalin. I'll let you know if it has any effect on being able to see the big picure. Like you, this was one of my ADD enhanced abilities. The trouble was when I had to work through monotonous or especially challenging algorithms. It's hard to solve a complex problem in 10 minute bursts.

Thanks...can't wait to hear from you about your experience.

In addition to "big picture" vision I also had the hyper-focus thing working to my advantage. Problem was at the end of the day I had nothing left in the tank.

I feel like somebody has organized my toolbox and I can find a damn thing!

As an experiment, I am going to spend this week only taking the Adderall before heading home.

After a week on Ritalin, I've noticed some good results with work. I still struggle with the linear thought needed to finally get an idea coded. The difference is that I can take a deep breath and jump back in where before I would wander off and do something useless. I still feel like I can see patterns and innovative concepts as well as before. In fact, I feel I can do this more effectively because I listen to my coworkers better and have enough mental juice left to do some reasearch again.

I was planning on trying Adderal next month to see if it worked better but the Ritalin is working so well now that I may stick with it.

That is an interesting post. I occasionally spend some time programming, mostly embedded systems stuff that can be deeply twisted in places.

I haven't really seen the effect you describe. But the stack of stuff that seems important definitely changes character, depending on what drug we're taking and when.

You might find Ritalin interesting, or perhaps regular Adderall (we didn't like the XR at all). Ritalin is totally different. Adderall just works, you take it and forget about it. But Ritalin is like a little feisty ally riding around on your shoulder – you can ask him for help when you need it if you want, but otherwise he just sits there and kibitzes.

You get the advantage of being closer to our natural, wild ADDer state, at the expense of having to be more directly involved in keeping everything in line. That might be enough to help with your programming woes; I have a project coming up in a week or two, and I'll try it myself. I'll let you know how it works out.

Ritalin has a much shorter half life, too, which might be attractive in your situation. But I wouldn't worry too much about taking the Adderall too late at night, even the XR, at least until you try napping on it and see how that feels.


…One problem however - If you take Adderall XR in the afternoon, you are going to have a little trouble falling asleep…
You should probably check this one out for yourself – it's one of the common myths about stimulants.

(Search for research about that if you want; we go looking every once in a while, and have yet to see any. This little factlet was presented to us as a small part of coursework on the history of amphetamines. It's always a little surprising to us how difficult it is for some people to shake the popular misconceptions.)

There's actually no evidence that amphetamines act to interrupt sleep or suppress the impulse directly, rather than as an indirect consequence of the better documented effects.

Especially in the dosages we get 'em. We can take either Adderall or Ritalin and sleep like babies, and we don't know anyone personally that has ever had a problem with sleep.

When last asked our Dr. said he had no patients that experienced any difficulty. He still recommends exactly the same thing the Gregster said, though, because what he's doing isn't science, exactly, and the popular perception that 'speed keeps you awake' is everywhere.

Those marathon crystal meth binges everyone has heard of (or witnessed) apparently aren't a result of a suppressed sleep reflex. The actual experience seems to be driven by the ability while high to arbitrarily focus on the mundane with such intensity that normal functions like sleeping, eating and personal hygiene are blocked out.

As far as anyone can tell, the impulses still exist; people get hungry and sleepy, but focus past them and pay no attention until finally their brain fritzes, the crank runs out, or both.

The military doesn't claim amphetamines help pilots stay awake – they use it because of the statistically proven fact that they remain more alert when they're tired, and lose fewer multi-million dollar airplanes.

That was the original point when they started handing them out during WWII and the Korean conflict, along with improving a soldier's ability to function and stay relatively sharp even when supplies of food were scarce.

That idea is what apparently gave rise to civilian use as an appetite suppressant in the Fifties, and the still common practice of warning parents to watch their kids for weight loss. Our Dr. does it, even though when we asked, he looked at his AD/HD patients and found they fit exactly the same distribution as the other kids.

Just our informed opinion, of course. You should always let your Dr. know what you're doing…

I never realized how many ADDers are computer people! I started with a computer science major. I loved it, but couldn't deal or keep up with the extreme detail involved and my grades started to suffer. Then I started to resent it so I changed my major during my junior year to communications and kept computer science as my minor.

Then last year, I was diagnosed with ADD. My love for computers has come back because I am now able to be detail oriented. Ive always had a logical mind but the ADD always interfered, making me believe I not as smart as everyone else in my class or that I was not cut out for the sciences.

Ive always been a "big picture" sort of person. Now see both pictures and it's great!

Hope

The most significant issue stemming from coffee consumption is its' effect on the rate at which amphetamines are excreted in your urine (this can be 5-6 times the normal rate). Ammonium chloride is used to treat acute amphetamine-induced psychosis for this same reason. In terms of caffeine, decaf is really just reduced-caf and contains about 10% caffeine. Make sure to tell the prescribing doc how many cups you drink per day.

The change in your smoking habit is interesting. Amphetamines decrease dopamine reuptake, and nicotine stimulates its' activity. Combined they have a compounded effect, which could explain your decrease in perceived need. (BTW, have you noticed any changes in the time at which cravings for a smoke are present in relation to when you take adderall?)

To sum things up: coffee and nicotine are a couple of *major* variables in this equation. Talk to your doc about both so you can work out a plan together to find a good dose. Cigarettes could have been working as a patch for your ADHD symptoms all along, too... So phasing in adderall could get you to quit. Coffee will probably need to be decreased or taken with an antacid. Taking it in the afternoon isn't a major problem as long as it doesn't mess up the quality of your sleep, but this also brings us back to the issue of the other variables at work.

I always enjoy reading how adderall has changed people's lives in the same way it has for me. Right now I'm finishing up work on a degree in biochemistry and it has been much easier to handle since finally being diagnosed with ADHD and getting medicated. My fiancee has told me that I hardly even seem like the same person (in a good way). Before biochem I studied engineering and was a music major at a major conservatory prior to that... Being so science-oriented made coping with the ADHD very hard because the coursework leaves no room for error. For a long time I thought I wasn't as smart or motivated as my classmates, which was odd because I also knew that couldn't be true.

Good luck getting your meds sorted out. Give your doc all the details you can about your coffee, smoking, and intake of fatty foods.

-Hugh

If you guys get a chance, I have a poll in the careers section on ADD and reading XML. It's becoming a ubiquitous aspect of software development and it absolutely drives me nuts.

HyperDad 39,

I respond to your original question, namely whether Adderall has an effect on "big picture" perception.

Fair warning: I'm an attorney, not a programmer. Still, I think writing a good programs and writing a good brief are similar exercises. Programmers generate code that observes fixed rules to arrive at a compelled result. Lawyers generate argument that observes less fixed precedent (and "fact") to persuade decisionmakers to a perceived compelled result. Whether algorithms or syllogisms, the process is basically the same.

Back to Adderall. Before taking it, I was very good at quickly framing argumentative themes. I'd absorb the law and facts of a given case, and quickly markerboard ideas both sensible and persuasive. Yet I was less good at sustaining the theme through forty or fifty pages of argument. My building blocks were not tight, so the theme suffered. I loved ideas, hated the act of writing.

Now, on Adderall, I think I'm much better at writing discrete argument, and see the process as this interesting puzzle. I get locked up in a single sub-argument until every sentence is perfect in substance and plays with a notable cadence in the mind's ear. The result is briefing that reads very easy. I'd like to think it admits to no other outcome that the one I want. But all of this takes an incredibly long time. I can't move to another theme until I'm completely finished with the one I'm on.

In sum, things are definitely different on Adderall. I think my work product is better, but I'm not so sure about my career. The pace at which I have to churn out material was overwhelming even when I not on Adderall and was freewheeling, and could jump from case to case, intro to closing, etc., as I was inclined. I never polished everything completely, but there was sufficient sparkle in the theme to carry bits that were dull. Now, I'm just too perfectionist, I think. I really have to figure out how work on and off of Adderall to put these halves of me together.

Wow! Thanks for all the response!

Programming is one aspect of what I do but it something that I really enjoy. It has always helped me to combat my ADHD because there is no one way to accomplish something and it really forces me to think in a linear way. (JD: sounds allot like what you talk about).

<O:pLoosing that "big picture" view put a real scare into me but I think I have learned how to use the XR to my advantage. I have learned that unless I initiate my will to do something, it ain't gonna happen. I have had to re-learn how to approach writing an application but have had much success. I seem to writing from the inside outward instead of the outside inward...if that makes sense! Much like John David, I find myself really paying attention to polishing.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
Smoking seems to be the same issue. If I don't pay attention to what I am doing I find that I smoke more and more and more.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p
Adderall has forced me to think like a "normal" and after 40 years of developing strategies to take advantage of my ADHD it may take a moment or two to learn how to use this med to my advantage and to this I am committed! No longer do I come home mentally exhausted from hyper-focusing all day and now I have the time to attend to the really important things...my family and friends!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

Please keep posting because you folks have been a real help!

Hopeless:

Technology...I can't imagine a more perfect place for an ADHDer (although it sounds like John David has also found another place that an ADHDer can thrive).

There is always some much to do and learn and it all changes so fast! My problem has always been hyper-focus which had the negative effect of wiping me out by the end of the day. The result was a cranky and tense Daddy/Husband/Son/Brother/Friend who was not in "attendance".

I am willing to spend the effort to re-learn how to use my skills so that I can be there for the people that matter to me!

Thanks again for the response!

I forgot to mention that coming home with more mental energy is one of the greatest things I've noticed. I was also able to easily survive three all-afternoon meetings this week where we were brainstorming ideas for our user interface. We had 70 or so 3' x 2' sheets of paper taped all around the room categorized into six categories. Prior to diagnosis and treatment, this sort of environment would have reduced my brain to jello.

I just came along this post and I can relate to it very well. I am in computer science at one of the best schools for CS in the country but I just found out that I have ADD, which makes sense with my troubles with coding, when I say troubles I mean it takes me forever, I am EXTREAMLY creative when it comes to coding but it just takes forever. I am taking concerta now and all I can say is WOW coding is so much easier and I don't make stupid mistakes that cause a half an hour of debugging but the awesome thing is that I stay just as creative as I was before ... I thought that I was unintelligent when I first got to college but this medicine proved me wrong, I just have ADD.

I work in the Systems/IT field and have adhd. I went from a customer service rep, to a Systems Analyst to a Senior Quality Assurance Analyst.

I enjoy hopping and popping, moving from one thing to another, breaking things, finding solutions, working with different departments/employees, multi tasking, big picture, giving out of the box ideas. I have gotten several monetary rewards for ideas that I have given to the company.

Up until now, (pre medication) there was no way I could be a Systems Programmer. I could not sit quietly and code all day. No way.

Of all the System People I deal with, there are a few that are spazzy like myself. Working on multiple projects, simultaneously and doing a great job. These are the System Analysts, mostly extroverts. The Programmers I work with are quiet introverts.

An add/adhd per has to have a job they are extremely passionate about so they don't get bored. I have been at my job 25 years. I can't believe it. It has changed over the years which makes it new and different and I am able to do what I want pretty much when I want. It makes a big difference and you enjoy going to work.

I stated Adderall XR on March 18. It's almost been a month. I have noticed that I am able to concentrate for longer periods of time. Who knows? Maybe I'll dig out my programming books and give it a whirl. Ya never know.

Another programmer here!

I didn't realized that I was ADD until I got my promotion from tester to developer. While working as a tester, I could crank out all these scripts and get it over with, leaving me plenty of free time to just listen to music or surf the internet while the scripts were running. As a developer, I tried to start off the same way. Write a bunch of code, design a few forms, and use the rest of my time to surf or whatever.

When it came time to turn in my first project, everything fell apart. Pieces of code that I thought were working were failing, details were missing, files were missing, etc. Got my butt chewed out by my boss, but thankfully he is a nice person and I had already set up my appointment to get screened for ADHD.

A couple weeks later and I was officially diagnosed with ADHD and eventually started Adderall. I learned quickly that it was not a quick fix for all my attention/concentration/memory problems but allowed me to at least stay on task once I got started on something. I find myself polishing a lot more and checking to make sure it is done right before turning it in. My boss is much happier with my performance so far... let's hope this continues.

This is a great thread for me. I'm a programmer and also a PhD economist and "financial engineering" person. Started programming back when if wanted a real model, you wrote it. This is still the best way to get what I need.

I kind of backed into understanding ADD/ADHD. 6 year debilitating depression. On recovery, I realized much of my olf "mojo" was gone. Turned out that my skills to cope were home grown, mostly subconcisous, and all automatic. After the depression, it's like I was brain injured in some way. Can't access the old "automatic" skills. Pain points for me are focus, total inability to maintain concenrtation, and wondering off task. These are BAD THINGS when not delivering the goods can have a big impact on real people. (Please God, don't let me turn into a flake!!)

Basically have to re-learn how to work effectively. It's just as you guys said, shifting from big picture to line by line detail and in my case just stying on-task. Taking Effexor XR and Celexa with heavier than usual (off label) dose of each. Very effective for my depression.

JUST added Adderall 10mg AM, 10mg Mid-day. This is not the sustained release type. I'm a coffee junkie big time and a smoker.

Still have no idea what to expect. Started yesterday, and did not notice much of a change - maybe a little more focus with detail and that was it.

Please folks, where is this med going to take me? Am I doing the right thing?

Thanks, snodfart71

I'm so new to the drug, I really don't know what to expect.

I am a Senior Quality Assurance Analyst and have been on Adderall for a year and one month. (Since March 18 2005). I can really tell the difference, both at work and at home.

I take a 20 mg Extended Release Adderall at 6am and then a 10 mg Instant Release Adderall at 3pm. The afternoon dose gets me through work and into my home/family life.

I am able to concentrate on things much better than before being medicated. I started Adderall at the age of 43.

I no longer have to take my daily vivarine caffine pills and I am not as moody and crabby as before.

Good luck on the meds.

Hi adhdxyz,

Thanks for the insight. Maybe I'm just not taking the right dose. Today I do notice some changes. Gave myself something compex to work. One of those all day problems.

2 hours later I was still absorbed, still working the problem without wondering off topic at all. Is that the kind of thing I can expect?? If that IS what I can expect, then man this is great.

Programmers/IT Folks:

I'm new to all this - or at least now it's really in my face in a big way. It's not trivial for me, more like life or death.

5 years of depression 2 of thise really serious, now way better. But I came out the other side significantly ADD. Truth is I'm really afarid (REAL MEN don't get scared... yeah righ they don't!) ;-)

So I'm wondering HOW I'll know an ADD med is working, and how much it's just placibo effect. I'm used to drugs for depression, where the first test is being able to take it at all, then waiting quite awhile to see any benefit.

I get the impression that with Adderall, you see a benefit (or not) quickly. True?

The discussion about different KINDS of thinking was very interesting.

Unlike a full time coder, and maybe more like an analyst, I have to shift from line by line detail either in a program or in a financial problem, to broader research, to all the way on the other side of thinking where I'm writing and diagraming to explain the work to non-technical folks.

I used to live for all this, and now I'm just trying to get back into it. O'Reilly press has two books just out aimed at techies having to do with thinking style and "exercising" thought patterns. Anyone see these, or anything like it, that has been helpful to you?

Many thanks,
snodfart71

Last, I used to smoke a couple a day and now feel like I could smoke a pack a day. Any thoughts?I think adderall might enhance addictions. I know I put on a lot of weight while taking the med. This is a medicine that is suppose to suppress appetite.


I consider myself a food addict.

Then again, maybe I'm just getting older.

To sum things up: coffee and nicotine are a couple of *major* variables in this equation. Talk to your doc about both so you can work out a plan together to find a good dose. Cigarettes could have been working as a patch for your ADHD symptoms all along, too... So phasing in adderall could get you to quit.

I took Strattera for a year and a half for my ADHD, I work on computers too, I do IT though. I started Adderall about two weeks ago. I was prescribed 10mg XR, however it does VERY little for me, so I used two this morning and noticed an excellent effect. The same feeling as Strattera but different...and a lot less side-effects.

But I quoted for a reason. I was smoking at least half a pack a day for the past four years. I spent a week in Cancun in March and was doing three packs a day. I started taking Adderall, got the will to quit, and the nicotine cravings have not even been there. It's interesting to find out that Adderall could help make a person want to quit.

Anyone know what adverse effects it could have on working out? I want to get back into hardcore working out and I'm beginning to do a lot of cardio.

I started taking Adderall, got the will to quit, and the nicotine cravings have not even been there. It's interesting to find out that Adderall could help make a person want to quit.
This is really interesting. I wonder if the drug companies troll these boards :D

As a long time smoker, I know that when I really need to get deep into something, really heads down, my urge to smoke increases.

I always thought it was just the hand-mouth oral fixation thing. Trying to quit in the past, again it was the heads down high concentration moments that were the strongest cravings.

Humm...

As to doing cardio and Adderill, that sounds like a really valid question for your doctor. Reading the drug company info, if you don't have hypertension or some pre-existing cardiac problem, I'd think you should be ok. But call the doc anyway.

Cheers.
snodfart71

Come to think of it, Adderall is also really good because it suppresses an appetite while quitting smoking increases the appetite. So even though you quit smoking and are supposed to gain weight, taking Adderall cancels out the weight gain.

I notice in myself that I still have NO appetite whatsoever during the day. I work out at around 6pm and I have to force myself to eat around 3:30-4. It's good and bad. I love the initial feeling though, for the first 4 or 5 hours it's so intense. Then as the day dwindles, so does the medication, and it's not so dramatic.

Come to think of it, Adderall is also really good because it suppresses an appetite while quitting smoking increases the appetite. So even though you quit smoking and are supposed to gain weight, taking Adderall cancels out the weight gain.

I notice in myself that I still have NO appetite whatsoever during the day. I work out at around 6pm and I have to force myself to eat around 3:30-4. It's good and bad. I love the initial feeling though, for the first 4 or 5 hours it's so intense. Then as the day dwindles, so does the medication, and it's not so dramatic.
Sooo, did you quit smoking? What's your dose range? So far, all I'm experiencing is slightly more intensity in my work, but distraction (by other intense but less important things) is still a problem. FOCUS, where have you gone...?

-snod

Yep, I haven't had a cigarette in two weeks. I'll catch the occasional "I want one" but if I hold fast for about 5 minutes, it passes no problem.

I'm on 20mgs of XR. I'm getting the same thing, only more so I would say, as you. I used to be on Strattera and for the first 6 months it was insane. I could focus but the side-effects just got to me. Not only that, I was soooo tired with it, I was hardly awake as much as I slept.

So I know how good it was with Strattera, but, the Adderall is doing an almost as good of a job. I was started out at 10mgs about 3 weeks ago, called him and told him it wasn't doing as well. He bumped me up to 2 10mgs a morning. It's better, whereas with the 10mgs I only felt something for about 2 hours, and it was very very minimal. Now, I feel something for about 6 hours. Focus isn't as strong as it could be. Like right now, I'm at work and have things I need to be doing but I'm slightly distracted. I'm thinking I may call my doctor and see if I can't get bumped up to 25 or 30mgs. Which almost seems sad I need to take so much. I'm only 175 lbs, very skinny, but I guess I have a strong liver or something heh.

But as far as smoking goes, I'm done with it. I'm also very happy I quit :D I tried SO many times before, but my roommates smoke, I party a lot, I drink, etc., so it's hard. But I've been able to say no lately and I'm giving Adderall some credit there at least. Everyone who I know who quit always said, "You'll just know when you want to quit and you won't do it anymore." That time just came and I just gave my lighter away and said, "Meh, no more."

Come to think of it, Adderall is also really good because it suppresses an appetite while quitting smoking increases the appetite. So even though you quit smoking and are supposed to gain weight, taking Adderall cancels out the weight gain.

I notice in myself that I still have NO appetite whatsoever during the day. I work out at around 6pm and I have to force myself to eat around 3:30-4. It's good and bad. I love the initial feeling though, for the first 4 or 5 hours it's so intense. Then as the day dwindles, so does the medication, and it's not so dramatic.
That euphoric feeling won't last, nor will the supressed appetite.

I've been on the med since 2001 and I did feel that way initially, but not so much anymore.

It still works, but I can't feel the "highs" any more.