View Full Version : is mindfulness executive function training?


daveddd
08-27-13, 11:20 AM
http://books.google.com/books?id=ervg6dC0Fs0C&pg=PA6&dq=five+such+self+regulatory+actions+were+elaborat ed+in+this+initial+theory&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tcIcUoPQMYGs2AX66oCgDQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=five%20such%20self%20regulatory%20actions%20were %20elaborated%20in%20this%20initial%20theory&f=false (scroll down a half a page to the 5 executive function actions)


executive function gets thrown around a lot

this is a pretty good description in barkleys books

he describes them as conscious acts

examining them closely it appears that they follow mindfulness practice perfectly

but i would need some input from those who are better versed in mindfulness

daveddd
08-27-13, 11:36 AM
barkley also added a sixth

self awareness, sensory, emotional self monitoring

and in his newest book includes socializing as a self regulation strategy

TygerSan
08-27-13, 12:11 PM
It is what you said there that makes me wonder if a modified form of DBT might be helpful for the emotional dysregulation that occurs in ADHD.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/an-overview-of-dialectical-behavior-therapy/0001096

I do think that many of us have trouble figuring out how we are feeling in the moment, and it's only after a meltdown that we are able to go back and reconstruct what led up to the loss of control (if we can even get that far).

In any case, I do think that mindfulness can help us better attune to our emotional and physical state (how many times have I forgotten to eat, for example)?

I do think that for many of us, though, that the mindfulness aspect is something that might have to happen, at least in the beginning, with the aid of stimulant drugs. That is, that in order for mindfulness to work, we have to be aware and focused, which isn't easy.

daveddd
08-27-13, 01:36 PM
I think what you said is also important in the role of the development of depressed and anxious states

I have a theory involving that EF Rumination, positive memory recall and the bi directional interplay between anxiety depression and ADHD. It's just to much for me to attempt to word

sarek
08-27-13, 03:35 PM
I'm using awareness training as part of 4th way teaching. Its quite similar to mindfulness training.
I've been doing this for about a month now and results are variable but quite interesting. I have been able to vastly improve my emotional regulation and have markedly less issues with running out of spoons during a busy day.

ana futura
08-27-13, 03:40 PM
It feels like that to me, yes. Mindfulness practice slows me down, in much the same way that meds do. It's the slowing down of my brain that permits me to think through things in an orderly fashion. This slowing down also permits me to pay attention to what's in front of me. Attentional training and executive function training would be hard to tease apart, because to me it seems like they have the same root.

daveddd
08-27-13, 03:55 PM
Ana

the visualizing part interests me the most. I can't visualize a thing. Except for a brief guided meditation

Didn't realize the relation to EF then. Now it has me really anxious to do it again

sarek
08-27-13, 06:03 PM
I think after further consideration i want to add a caveat. i believe it is unwise to divorce these methods and techniques from their respective background and framework so i would advise anyone who adopt these methods to also look into the actual esoteric aspects associated with them.

ana futura
08-27-13, 06:41 PM
I think after further consideration i want to add a caveat. i believe it is unwise to divorce these methods and techniques from their respective background and framework so i would advise anyone who adopt these methods to also look into the actual esoteric aspects associated with them.

Definitely. I think anyone interested in mindfulness will benefit from learning about Buddhism, it helps your understanding a great deal.

But if someone doesn't feel comfortable with Buddhism, for whatever reason, i still think they'll benefit from exposure to mindfulness meditation. I'd rather see people dabbling than not engaging at all.

It's complicated.

ana futura
08-27-13, 06:44 PM
Ana

the visualizing part interests me the most. I can't visualize a thing. Except for a brief guided meditation

Didn't realize the relation to EF then. Now it has me really anxious to do it again

Hmm, I don't have any problems with visualizing things or thinking visually. That's interesting. I didn't know there was a relationship to EF disorders.

For me my EF issues seem to be all about speed. I'm just always too quick to react.

Meditation helps me with things like not grabbing hot pans on the stove, or not pulling a bunch of objects down on my head in the closet. I also think before I speak. As far as seeing the big picture of my life better, i haven't gotten to that point yet. Maybe some improvement in self motivation, but not enough to make myself do hard work without meds.

Like Sarek said, the emotional regulation stuff totally comes online. It's like realizing you've been held hostage by an invisible force your entire life.

I also think Mindfulness practice tends to give people different things, depending on their unique needs. Your experiences may be very different from mine. So if you need help with visualization, that's where it might go for you.

jeaniebug
08-27-13, 06:48 PM
I do think that many of us have trouble figuring out how we are feeling in the moment, and it's only after a meltdown that we are able to go back and reconstruct what led up to the loss of control (if we can even get that far).

Tyger, This is me in a nutshell. I don't see the meltdown coming. I also don't think I alert those around me that it's coming (obviously, since I don't know it myself). This leaves people confused surprised and hurt. And then they are not in the frame of mind to be supportive and tend to run away...

Really interesting insight!

:o

daveddd
08-27-13, 06:52 PM
Hmm, I don't have any problems with visualizing things or thinking visually. That's interesting. I didn't know there was a relationship to EF disorders.

For me my EF issues seem to be all about speed. I'm just always too quick to react.

Meditation helps me with things like not grabbing hot pans on the stove, or not pulling a bunch of objects down on my head in the closet. I also think before I speak. As far as seeing the big picture of my life better, i haven't gotten to that point yet.

barkleys got it under self directed sensory motor action

the minds eye

daveddd
08-27-13, 06:53 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=ehCT2akgjVoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+mind's+eye+visualization&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EicdUr-FD8G4yQHpsIGoDA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20mind's%20eye%20visualization&f=false

im currently reading this on it

ana futura
08-27-13, 06:58 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=ehCT2akgjVoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+mind's+eye+visualization&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EicdUr-FD8G4yQHpsIGoDA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20mind's%20eye%20visualization&f=false

im currently reading this on it

What is the relationship between visualization and emotional intelligence, according to the author? I'm a little confused.

Visualization meaning one's ability to imagine or manipulate an object or scene in their mind, right?

daveddd
08-27-13, 07:03 PM
What is the relationship between visualization and emotional intelligence, according to the author? I'm a little confused.

Visualization meaning one's ability to imagine or manipulate an object or scene in their mind, right?

barkley says it well in the link in the original post its on the next page after the one i linked under number 2

ive read it a bit elsewhere as well

mainly in alexthymia (an extreme of emotional dysregulation)

daveddd
08-27-13, 07:12 PM
like i mentioned i dont know much about mindfulness

but the time i did it the therapists wanted to get me to be able to visualize something

and whatever she did worked, i remember it well, it was like looking at a TV

ana futura
08-27-13, 07:20 PM
barkley says it well in the link in the original post its on the next page after the one i linked under number 2

ive read it a bit elsewhere as well

mainly in alexthymia (an extreme of emotional dysregulation)

Interesting. I guess i imagine EF as being all about sequencing - have a goal in mind but not being able to follow the correct steps to accomplish it, or skipping steps (want pan, grab pan underneath stack of pans by handle, pans all tumble out and hit me in the head) In Barkley's original model, the part where things fall apart for me are the actions that are "automatic". Maybe There is a disconnect between the automatic and executive behaviors. Mediation helps repair that disconnect. Your actions become more automatic, while at the same time becoming more appropriate.

As far as the visual- spatial, Perhaps that's related to how we process the information "this pan is under a stack of pans". I always test well on visual - spatial stuff, but i do have a lot of issues with real life applications.

I think it's interesting how EF appears to be both this micro and macro thing- like the reason I pull the pans on my head is the same reason I still can't decide on a career trajectory 15 years out of college.

daveddd
08-27-13, 07:23 PM
they also are thought to be affected more at an emotionally loaded level

ive been in a state of severe nothingness depression for 15 or so years'

so that may play into it for me as well, at a concrete level

mildadhd
08-27-13, 09:58 PM
What is executive function training?



Superior frontal gyrus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_frontal_gyrus#Self-awareness)

Self-awareness

In fMRI experiments, Goldberg et al. have found evidence that the superior frontal gyrus is involved in self-awareness, in coordination with the action of the sensory system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_system)[1][2]


Laughter

someothertime
08-28-13, 12:15 AM
Nice topic daveddd...

sarek
08-28-13, 02:12 AM
...

For me my EF issues seem to be all about speed. I'm just always too quick to react.

...

Like Sarek said, the emotional regulation stuff totally comes online. It's like realizing you've been held hostage by an invisible force your entire life.



Thats exactly it. The most difficult part is to remember to actually remember. If I am in a good state of self awareness I can catch a lot but when I am too immersed in life, when i am 'identified' with myself, that advantage is lost.

I am looking into supporting methods to raise my awareness levels and one of the steps to take is dietary changes to ensure the brain is not fed too much garbage.
Cutting back on sugar and carbs and ensuring enough exercise is important.

The effects on emotional regulation are amazing. My only down periods since I have begun this are due to actual physical tiredness.

someothertime
08-28-13, 02:40 AM
I truly insightful text. Thankyou for pointing it out :)

I'm seeing two clear aspects that leap out of the article / discussion;

1. The expansion in the social domain and it's broad reaching grasp on EF.

2. Goal orientation ( something US adders are able to work toward ) and minfullness' absence of specific goals. The only reason I have been able to "apply" mindfullness concepts is by the inclusion/expansion/diffusion of emotion ( having the goal of embracing -> "drawing out" as opposed to "detaching" ).

So, maybe I'm misinterpreting but there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy going on between goals / subgoals and "focus" and absence of agenda ( fusion )... To isolate and clearly action an area or to detach...


Maybe I missed some clearer connection between these two... The article is a tad conceptial for me...

Adduce
08-28-13, 04:01 AM
I found this documentary interesting which has some relevant points to this thread (refers to the documentary presenters experience with mindfulness training)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUBJ9l7RhTs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUBJ9l7RhTs)

daveddd
08-28-13, 05:59 AM
I truly insightful text. Thankyou for pointing it out :)

I'm seeing two clear aspects that leap out of the article / discussion;

1. The expansion in the social domain and it's broad reaching grasp on EF.

2. Goal orientation ( something US adders are able to work toward ) and minfullness' absence of specific goals. The only reason I have been able to "apply" mindfullness concepts is by the inclusion/expansion/diffusion of emotion ( having the goal of embracing -> "drawing out" as opposed to "detaching" ).

So, maybe I'm misinterpreting but there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy going on between goals / subgoals and "focus" and absence of agenda ( fusion )... To isolate and clearly action an area or to detach...


Maybe I missed some clearer connection between these two... The article is a tad conceptial for me...

we know in social interaction, the brains reaction to regulation is the chemical oxytocin

i wonder if it would be crazy to say we as humans have extended EF to domesticated animals as well

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124024

daveddd
08-28-13, 06:00 AM
adduce

thanks i will watch that tonight

daveddd
08-28-13, 06:21 AM
Thats exactly it. The most difficult part is to remember to actually remember. If I am in a good state of self awareness I can catch a lot but when I am too immersed in life, when i am 'identified' with myself, that advantage is lost.

I am looking into supporting methods to raise my awareness levels and one of the steps to take is dietary changes to ensure the brain is not fed too much garbage.
Cutting back on sugar and carbs and ensuring enough exercise is important.

The effects on emotional regulation are amazing. My only down periods since I have begun this are due to actual physical tiredness.

is this a guided thing

doing it on your own?

do have have a book or something?

mildadhd
08-28-13, 12:11 PM
"i wonder if it would be crazy to say we as humans have extended EF to domesticated animals as well?" -Daveddd


This is a really interesting question.

I think primarily from an evolution standpoint it is the other way around.

Although secondarily I think it is possible to some extent.

All mammals including humans have very similar emotional systems.



Three "brains" in one- The brain may be viewed as a hierarchy of three "separate" brains: a lower vegetative/reflexive brain, a higher adaptive/skilled brain, and an intermediate brain concerned with emotions and instincts.

The vegetative brain corresponds roughly to the brain stem and is concerned with controlling vital bodily functions (respiration, digestion, circulation) as well as with integrating brain reflexes.

The adaptive and skilled brain corresponds to the cerebral cortex (the neocortex).

It has sensory, motor functions, and association/integrative areas that serve in complex perception and execution of skilled sensory and motor functions (e.g., hand movements, speech) as well as higher mental functions (e.g.,learning, thoughts, introspection, planning).




Limbic system's role in emotions and instinctive behaviors- Limbic system (LS) structures are concerned with central (neural) control over the expression of emotions, instinctive behaviors, drives, motivation and feelings.

In lower vertebrates, the LS is called the rhinencephalon (smell brain) because of its intimate connection to the central olfactory structures.

In these animals, many instinctive behaviors are guided by the sense of smell.

The cerebral cortex and LS have access to brain stem motor areas, permitting them to carry out their respective adaptive and instinctive controls over behavior.



Kapit/Macey/Meisami, "The Physiology Coloring Book", (Nervous System), "Emotions, Instinct & The Limbic Brain", P108

mildadhd
08-28-13, 12:25 PM
I find the word "consider" very helpful in understanding mindfulness/awareness.

To "consider" is to bring things to consciousness.

Bringing things to consciousness is all we need to do.

Over time our brains do the rest, if we consciously consider.

In regards to executive function training,

Doing things we enjoy, seems to promote development of executive function.

As apposed to doing things we do not enjoy.


Peripheral

mildadhd
08-28-13, 12:52 PM
External and internal suboptimal stress (things we don't enjoy) are other factors that I think could interfere in consciously considering things we do enjoy.

The age of the individual/developmental dependency/temperament would also be factors.




Peripheral

daveddd
08-28-13, 07:35 PM
External and internal suboptimal stress (things we don't enjoy) are other factors that I think could interfere in consciously considering things we do enjoy.

The age of the individual/developmental dependency/temperament would also be factors.




Peripheral

i think thats whats meant by "hot EFs"

mildadhd
08-29-13, 12:26 PM
i think thats whats meant by "hot EFs"

I think that would depend on which way we choose to look at it.

The way I look at it, the lower "ground-up" emotional systems, develop before the higher "top-down" executive systems.

Emotion preceeds logic.

Emotionally enjoying (or not enjoying) preceeds what ever executive functions/subjects being "exercised".

Enjoying the exercises promotes development,

not enjoying the exercises does not promote development, (in layman).


Emotion preceeds the exercise. (primarily)










Peripheral

someothertime
08-31-13, 05:42 AM
^ That explains why all the females on the dating sites rant about "impossible to find nice guys" then only communicate with Superficial jerks... ;)

Very interesting tho... It would tie in with a comment I made relating to ADD in Asian countries. We talked about structure, but the perception of study there is that it is a "character" defining activity thus, they would ( in general ) be approaching it with a better emotional linkage.... aka...... pathways to improvement. ( Yeah, a bit of a sweeping generalisation I know..... but I think you guys get the point i'm tryna make..... )

G.Debord
09-01-13, 02:36 PM
examining them closely it appears that they follow mindfulness practice perfectly

but i would need some input from those who are better versed in mindfulness

That's an interesting connection. The mindfulness practice I've done comes from Theravada Buddhism, specifically the Thai Forest tradition. I don't think that is executive function training precisely however I think that practicing it does improve EF.

I don't know if that makes sense? I mean, yes I think it's going to be helpful with EF, but there is a lot more to it than that.

Btw, there's a book I've been meaning to read for years called "Buddha's Brain" by Rick Hansen. I went to a meditation/dharma talk he gave about four years ago and it was really interesting. He talks about meditation in terms of contemporary brain science.

sarek
09-01-13, 03:44 PM
Forms of mindfulness figure in many esoteric traditions. In fact, every human being should be trained in some form of self awareness but somehow that aspect is never addressed in our upbringing or education. Its a slumbering function within ourselves that can only become fully operational if its consciously sought.

Nor is its practice without ramifications. This will eventually end up confronting you with yourself. For many, without proper guidance, that can be a scary place to be in.

daveddd
09-02-13, 01:26 PM
Forms of mindfulness figure in many esoteric traditions. In fact, every human being should be trained in some form of self awareness but somehow that aspect is never addressed in our upbringing or education. Its a slumbering function within ourselves that can only become fully operational if its consciously sought.

Nor is its practice without ramifications. This will eventually end up confronting you with yourself. For many, without proper guidance, that can be a scary place to be in.

yea, im a bit worried about that

i have hints, i wasnt like this till early adolescence (repressed and unaware, i was adhd though)

im a bit hopeful it turns out good

because without awareness, i still feel the need to help people , wether i come off like that or not

and animals (a lot of help to shelters and wild animals too)

and that supposedly was what i was like as a kid

but i still gotta believe im going to come across some crazy stuff

G.Debord
09-02-13, 02:06 PM
yea, im a bit worried about that

i have hints, i wasnt like this till early adolescence (repressed and unaware, i was adhd though)

im a bit hopeful it turns out good

because without awareness, i still feel the need to help people , wether i come off like that or not

and animals (a lot of help to shelters and wild animals too)

and that supposedly was what i was like as a kid

but i still gotta believe im going to come across some crazy stuff

It's definitely good to practice with a group and teacher/s you trust and who would be there for you if you ever need help processing your experience.

If you are "doing it right" it almost certainly won't be all blissful rainbows and unicorns. I don't think it is for anyone; and if it is, it won't be forever.

For example, when I first started I became acutely aware of back pain that I'd had in the background. After "sitting with it" for hours - being mindful of the pain - I experienced not as pain but as intense sensation. I no longer wanted to push it away, at least for a time.

There could be more difficult things that come up. I mean, there will be, for anyone. That's why it's important to have people around whom you trust!

ana futura
09-02-13, 04:29 PM
It's definitely good to practice with a group and teacher/s you trust and who would be there for you if you ever need help processing your experience.

If you are "doing it right" it almost certainly won't be all blissful rainbows and unicorns. I don't think it is for anyone; and if it is, it won't be forever.

For example, when I first started I became acutely aware of back pain that I'd had in the background. After "sitting with it" for hours - being mindful of the pain - I experienced not as pain but as intense sensation. I no longer wanted to push it away, at least for a time.

There could be more difficult things that come up. I mean, there will be, for anyone. That's why it's important to have people around whom you trust!

Proper guidance is hugely important. You probably could get what you need from books, as I think JKZ and Jack Kornfield do a really good job of prefacing things and priming your experience, but there's no substitute for a good teacher.

I had some seriously crazy crap come up while taking my course. It was designed for people with depression and anxiety, so I was really well prepared. Still, it's nuts. Anything you have repressed or been ignoring will coming roaring forward.

I think meditation for me has been 70% awesome (bliss, rainbows, and kittens!)and 30% sheer terror, but that terror was totally necessary for me to move forward. After everything is said and done, even though I had a fair number of "negative" experiences with meditation, it all becomes positive in the end, because of the growth those experiences lead too.

It's also really important to start the practice when you are relatively stable. If a loved one just died, or you just lost your job, it's not the best time to start.

G.Debord
09-02-13, 08:55 PM
Aside from the teaching support it's kind of amazing to be in a room with a bunch of other people meditating for 45 minute periods. It makes it much easier to follow through with a commitment to sit for a period of time, no matter what. I sometimes find that very hard to do on my own, and I really couldn't do it on my own for more than a few minutes when I started. There's also a really important sense of camaraderie; at least there was in the group I went to for some years.

That said, I really need to start going to my meditation group again! This thread is a good prompt.

daveddd
09-02-13, 09:25 PM
It's definitely good to practice with a group and teacher/s you trust and who would be there for you if you ever need help processing your experience.

If you are "doing it right" it almost certainly won't be all blissful rainbows and unicorns. I don't think it is for anyone; and if it is, it won't be forever.

For example, when I first started I became acutely aware of back pain that I'd had in the background. After "sitting with it" for hours - being mindful of the pain - I experienced not as pain but as intense sensation. I no longer wanted to push it away, at least for a time.

There could be more difficult things that come up. I mean, there will be, for anyone. That's why it's important to have people around whom you trust!

yea, i figure that

im just hoping the good outweighs the bad

someothertime
09-02-13, 09:40 PM
45mins sounds very intimidating! Although, I totally get the group aspects influence on application. Another duality of the adder!

by_design
09-03-13, 12:29 PM
Mindfulness is usually very tactile in the the here and now. So i don't think you are using your working memory. Where mindfulness helps most is with impulse control (also an executive function). No planning or organization( executive function) can get done in a pure state of mindfulness. Mindfulness promotes a state in which it is much easier to remember things, but that is unrelated to short-term memory, or trying to actively hold information in the brain that hasn't already been learned. Just my experience.

mctavish23
09-03-13, 01:09 PM
dave,

Fascinating & insightful thread. I use Basic Mindfulness as a means of augmenting CBT.

As far as EF Training specifically goes, in a way I suppose you could make a loose correl-

-lation.

tc

Robert

ADD me
09-04-13, 11:17 AM
Forms of mindfulness figure in many esoteric traditions. In fact, every human being should be trained in some form of self awareness but somehow that aspect is never addressed in our upbringing or education. Its a slumbering function within ourselves that can only become fully operational if its consciously sought.

Nor is its practice without ramifications. This will eventually end up confronting you with yourself. For many, without proper guidance, that can be a scary place to be in.

Well, this is the first time I have ventured into this forum, and I find a very familiar topic, sort of.

The. "Forms of mindfulness" being discussed here seem to be a secular version of what religious traditions often call contemplative prayer. (Disclaimer: information only, not advocacy.) Monks of all kind, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu all cultivate this kind of self knowledge in their various prayer practices.

I was drawn here today for a couple reasons that seem to fit in here.

One is about a sense of time, one of my major issues. I have been working on that especially, being on time for things, keeping close track of how long various tasks actually take, trying to get to bed earlier. I'm sure most of us know the drill. After a few days of this, I'm thinking, this is like never getting a day off, I am "on" all the time. I also realized that, now that I am more aware of time, even taking a "day off" will be different.

This morning, in my daily quiet time, I became aware of a rich connection between time and the sacred. Monks of all kind also have set times for prayer, normally morning and evening, often midday, and sometimes in the middle of the night. So cultivating a greater awareness of time is one way to become aware of our connection to the sacred, to the cosmos itself, which is the way our clock system is set up. I believe most mindfulness, like contemplation, is attuned to a greater awareness of the here and now? I am wondering if maybe we don't need a slightly different kind of awareness of time, one more attuned to its passing?

The other reason was self knowledge. Definitely, can be both scary and actually a psychological danger, if not handled well. I have been fortunate in having good help, the first time through with a very good spiritual director, the second time with a very able pdoc, who did his own counseling. The third time through has been with my talk therapist, in the retelling of my life story from the perspective of undiagnosed ADHD. It's like shedding skin, or peeling an onion, or dying and rising/being reborn, pick your favorite metaphor. It does open a lot of drawers. The painful events are just as painful, and things that weren't painful at the time might seem so in retrospect. It's like emotional scar revision surgery on your soul.

I have no idea whether any of this affects EF or CBT or not. I think it might. On days when everything glows with its own halo, all of life seems to go better, too.

Glad to see some familiar names here.

daveddd
09-04-13, 11:57 AM
Mindfulness is usually very tactile in the the here and now. So i don't think you are using your working memory. Where mindfulness helps most is with impulse control (also an executive function). No planning or organization( executive function) can get done in a pure state of mindfulness. Mindfulness promotes a state in which it is much easier to remember things, but that is unrelated to short-term memory, or trying to actively hold information in the brain that hasn't already been learned. Just my experience.

I can see that

Barkley replaced cognitive memory functions with self directed EFs

They are thought to be only effected when hot or emotionally charged. ( another time for possiblitys)

I've read some things that explain it well

Self speech and visual imagery are involved. I believe there are mindful practices to work on those. Very difficult from what I've read

daveddd
09-05-13, 06:20 AM
Proper guidance is hugely important. You probably could get what you need from books, as I think JKZ and Jack Kornfield do a really good job of prefacing things and priming your experience, but there's no substitute for a good teacher.

I had some seriously crazy crap come up while taking my course. It was designed for people with depression and anxiety, so I was really well prepared. Still, it's nuts. Anything you have repressed or been ignoring will coming roaring forward.

I think meditation for me has been 70% awesome (bliss, rainbows, and kittens!)and 30% sheer terror, but that terror was totally necessary for me to move forward. After everything is said and done, even though I had a fair number of "negative" experiences with meditation, it all becomes positive in the end, because of the growth those experiences lead too.

It's also really important to start the practice when you are relatively stable. If a loved one just died, or you just lost your job, it's not the best time to start.

first off yes, i think adhd has biological roots and im not against medication

anyway so is it just as fulfilling, more, or less when you could stop avoiding yourself and accept your thoughts and emotions or with meds?

its crazy all this stuff goes around about adhd people seeking to replace some chemical with addiction , when really we are escaping ourselves


back to freudian psychology (without the weird stuff)


it took me a long time to realize i was avoiding myself with cocaine (and no it doesnt make it ok, or me less accountable for it) but thats what it was, no doubt, artificial avoidance

although now ive just switched to intellectualizing (or hyperfocus) for an escape hatch

im preparing though

even used another program i believe is an executive function aid.. AA (although on my own because of anxiety)

several parts of it, but what sticks out for what we are talking about is, searching and fearless moral inventory

daveddd
09-05-13, 06:49 AM
ana

was i was to clear my head for close to an hour last night with breathing and relaxing

i wanted to passively observe

but nothing came up, no thoughts, emotions, nothing

what did i do wrong

someothertime
09-05-13, 07:07 AM
So the other thread about our response to core emotions got me thinking more about this one.

Perhaps, "training" is not the right word. I mean, on top of our recall / contextual ignorance, what pervades seeks to he this duopoly of extremes... Nothing vs Everything.

Thus, mindfullness appears to counteract these. If one is mindfull, everything and nothing merge as one.

Our executive functions are now "uncloaked" rather than trained. A space is reached, where the intersection of action and thought collide. Within this space we may conciously choose to draw upon components of our EF and perhaps, with a greater capacity to mix and match than that of a typical neurotypical ( lol )...

Training... Yes... It seems in many ways to be so..... Although perhaps in a more "segmented" manner...?

sarek
09-05-13, 02:49 PM
ana

was i was to clear my head for close to an hour last night with breathing and relaxing

i wanted to passively observe

but nothing came up, no thoughts, emotions, nothing

what did i do wrong

I got a lot of the same experiences. I am only just starting this myself. I don't think there is any need to be concerned. I have so far not seen any big emotional revelations either.

No thoughts at all is quite remarkable though. That is not easy to achieve.

Awareness methods need not be confined to meditative situations only BTW. You can use them no matter what you are doing, all it takes is to remember that its an option.

I do not do all that much meditating at all so far, but have mainly practised in the course of daily life.
This has allowed me to live a lot 'smoother' than i did before.

Awareness can be used to deconflict a persons moving, emotional and intellectual centres so those are better able to run without interference.

Still, progress in the material world is not what this is meant for. Its a nice side effect but this is not why someone should be practising self awareness.