Howdy all..

Got the doc to get me off the spansules and on the immediate release. I couldn't get the mall..I am on the ethex. I have chewed my lip into shredded meat, my jaw is killing me from chewing gum like a mad dog. I started out with the dose I had before..holy crap!. I backed off to half today and was still chewing my lips up. Ya think I might still be too high?. I was taking 3 10mg spansules am and 2 10mg early afternoon. I took 15mg yesterday am 15 mid aft and 10 early evening. Is this brand a decent brand? I flat out refused the Barr, and was lucky to find this brand. I also have a killer headache. This sucks!
Mach:mad:

It does sound like the dose is too high - the headache would worry me if I were in your situation. Could be from the chewing - your lip and/or the gum - of from blood pressure, or ??? I doubt it's brand specific, but I'm just guessing on that.

Thanks for the concern Greg. I think it's the gum chewing. I tried that to counteract the lip chewing. I am going to back off more tomorrow to see what happens. I'd hate to go back to the spansules..but ya gotta do what ya gotta do!
Mach

Allow me to entertain a very wild, out-there concept:
(heck, give me feedback, if you want.)

We know that the most obvious answer would be an incredible increase of dopamine (which is purposely caused by the Dex) in an amazingly short period of time, resulting in nervous and hyperactive behavior similar to that one would see in a typical schizophrenic person, off meds, as Schizophrenics have too much Dopamine and ADDers have too little.

No, you're not schizophrenic, that is not what I'm trying to say! You just got a mild little taste of what they get to feel like every f*cking day--nervous and freaked out all to hell.:eek: Haldol, fortunately, aids in correcting and stabilizing their excessively high levels of dopamine, thus returning them to a relatively normal state. Horrid, horrid illness for a person to deal with. :( Sadly, also one of the most stigmatized.

Anyway...

Hate to get all scientist-ey on ya, but consider if you will the following:

Artificial sweetners are known to cause seizure activity and other things, including headaches.

Suppose if you will that having chewed your lip, you'd created an open wound, a tiny one or not-so tiny. Then perhaps you chewed a ton of sugarless gum in a futile attempt to stop chewing your lip and/or repair the damage caused by having chewed the hell out of your lip.

Aspartame (see below, in blue) got into the open wound, and voila: reaction to aspartame, headache.

(Aspartame is the most commonly used form of artifical sweetner in sodas and chewing gum, and, interestingly also the most well known for causing reactions...)

There's my
little neuroscientific theory on what caused your
yucky-lips-thingie (to use medical, diagnostic terminology.)


Not the most obvious, but a thought from a bored girl doing neurobiology homework...:rolleyes:


Chrys

p.s. Hey, hate to go back to that dopamine thing--but imagine having schizophrenia and ADD. What would you do? The ADD drugs would cancel out the antipsychotics used to treat the schizophrenia, and vice-versa...? There's a conundrum! Guess I'd pick impaired cognitive function over hallucinations that bugs are crawling on my skin and the government has planted a tracking device somewhere in my noggin...

my mind is spinning after that one...whew:eek:

You take 50mg a day? That's a hell of a lot of dex dude. I guess I don't know the specifics of your specific case- I think I"ve heard that people with narcolepsy take somewhere around that amount- but honestly, if you're taking it for ADD I would really consider lowering your dose. A good amount to take in a day to treat ADD is an average of 20 mg. Maybe as high as 30- maybe as low as 15- that's my opinion.

I confess my dose is now as high as 30 mg. I would like to lower it though, because I figure the less of the stuff I take now, the older into old age I'll still be allowed to take it, what with the high-blood-pressure, stroke risk, and probably carcenogenic properties of Dexedrine (they say that dexedrine "hasn't been tested for possible carcenogenic side effects"....my ***.).

If you spend a day or two without your dex, then go back to taking a smaller dose, I would reccomend trying 20 to 30 a day, I think you'll find it works better than you remembered, especially in low doses. Sometimes a higher dose seriously is not as good as a lower dose- a high dose sometimes increases your ADD, where a slightly lower one is just the right amount and makes it really easy for you to think.

Why do you take 50mg? Is it indeed for ADD? Whose idea was it to take a dose that big?

I'd assume it was his/her doctor who thought up the 50 mg thing...?

My doc considers 20 mg to be a (quote) "Mickey Mouse" dose, so I think you might want to lay off until you get your medical license. I have epilepsy, I'm on 30 mgs, and I'm fine...and I'm a 110 pound girl. Food for thought.

Chrys

You take 50mg a day? That's a hell of a lot of dex dude. I guess I don't know the specifics of your specific case- I think I"ve heard that people with narcolepsy take somewhere around that amount- but honestly, if you're taking it for ADD I would really consider lowering your dose. A good amount to take in a day to treat ADD is an average of 20 mg. Maybe as high as 30- maybe as low as 15- that's my opinion.

I confess my dose is now as high as 30 mg. I would like to lower it though, because I figure the less of the stuff I take now, the older into old age I'll still be allowed to take it, what with the high-blood-pressure, stroke risk, and probably carcenogenic properties of Dexedrine (they say that dexedrine "hasn't been tested for possible carcenogenic side effects"....my ***.).

If you spend a day or two without your dex, then go back to taking a smaller dose, I would reccomend trying 20 to 30 a day, I think you'll find it works better than you remembered, especially in low doses. Sometimes a higher dose seriously is not as good as a lower dose- a high dose sometimes increases your ADD, where a slightly lower one is just the right amount and makes it really easy for you to think.

Why do you take 50mg? Is it indeed for ADD? Whose idea was it to take a dose that big?

Chrys, is body weight a consideration when prescribing psychotropic drugs? 50MG is 40% more than 30MG.
L.

All I can say is that 5 mg does me wonders and 10 mg and im looking for an airstrip to go flying from

Chrys, is body weight a consideration when prescribing psychotropic drugs? 50MG is 40% more than 30MG.
L.Imnapl...

With great respect, I ask this: do you give a three year old 400 mg. of Ibuprofen? Nope...it's a matter of logic; considering body size/weight/metabolism in relation to determine generalized sensitivity to certain doses of certain medicines. The difference applies to geriatric patients as well, as I'm sure you know--you're quite educated on these things, after all.

I hope you get what I'm saying and take this as theory, not challenge or disrespect. My comments below were primarily based on annoyance of someone who is a patient, (McPerson) talking to another patient,(Machster) essentially reacting as though they might be a physician. The tone of McPerson's message was not a gentle suggestion or theory provided, but a rather wild and excited response which gave me the impression that McPerson believed him/herself to be less of a patient than a clinician. (I do realize I am being somewhat redundant, by the way.)

I believe I might go and scan PubMed about this briefly. My copy of the PDR is one published in 1999 and does not mention appropriate doses for adults--in children, there is vague mention of the physician's responsible determination of appropriate dose based on age, severity of symptoms, and most effective dose to ease those symptoms. Again, using logic, most 12 year olds are larger than 6 year olds.

Thinking not of children, however, consider the effects of medications on the CNS (and PNS to some extent, depending on the drug) by psychotropics, and also the thought of metabolic rate of absorption and action of the drug in question (henceforth, effect on CNS) based on size. Would it not be logical to consider the possibility that a small person taking the same dose as a larger person would (commonly--let's disregard Garry for a moment:)) probably notice greater effects of that drug?

Hey Chrys,

I look forward to reading your thorough analysis of the research.

Re: Garry: nothing like an ADDer to know when to break the tension in a room. :D

L.

You take 50mg a day? That's a hell of a lot of dex dude. I guess I don't know the specifics of your specific case- I think I"ve heard that people with narcolepsy take somewhere around that amount- but honestly, if you're taking it for ADD I would really consider lowering your dose. A good amount to take in a day to treat ADD is an average of 20 mg. Maybe as high as 30- maybe as low as 15- that's my opinion.

I confess my dose is now as high as 30 mg. I would like to lower it though, because I figure the less of the stuff I take now, the older into old age I'll still be allowed to take it, what with the high-blood-pressure, stroke risk, and probably carcenogenic properties of Dexedrine (they say that dexedrine "hasn't been tested for possible carcenogenic side effects"....my ***.).

If you spend a day or two without your dex, then go back to taking a smaller dose, I would reccomend trying 20 to 30 a day, I think you'll find it works better than you remembered, especially in low doses. Sometimes a higher dose seriously is not as good as a lower dose- a high dose sometimes increases your ADD, where a slightly lower one is just the right amount and makes it really easy for you to think.

Why do you take 50mg? Is it indeed for ADD? Whose idea was it to take a dose that big?

None of us are medical practitioners, so none of our recommendations should really make a difference. Talk to your doctor, and if you dont like his/her answer, seek out another doctor .

50mg is not necessarily a 'hell of a lot of dex'. i take 20mg (2x10mg) 3 to 4 times a day..that is my RX. my dr also feels that 20mg is a small dose, esp for my 300#s...

Every person is different and so is the effective dosage. One person might find that 5 or 10 mg is the perfect amount and others may take 50mg for that same effect. Body mass does have an effect - if all other things were equal a 200 lb person would need roughly twice as much as a 100lb person, but the variation between people makes a dosage based only on body mass inaccurate.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP, IT WENT THROUGH!

I PMed this to Imnapl the other night, couldn't cut and paste nor could I upload the document from Microsoft Word. So I copied and pasted into Notebook, then put it on here...we'll see if it goes through this time.

Psychotropic/Neuroleptic Drugs, Efficacy Based on Weight/Body Mass
(Dopamine Antagonists & Why Good Dosage Might Depend on Size)
Alternate Title: Response to the Nerdiest Challenge I’ve Ever Accepted
Knitting Junkie: 03/04/05
(If this sucks, it sucks. I have to do homework, and I can’t get this submitted onto the server, although with this whole “hyperfocusing” thing, as you know, my teachers have politely indicated that my homework essentially sucks! Oh, well. If it sucks, it sucks. At least it isn’t homework!)

Neuroleptics are dopamine antagonists. (Neuroleptics and Antipsychotics, by the way, are synonymous) and generally work as Central Nervous System (CNS) depressants. This is all well and good for a schizophrenic person, because their brain tends to run a little too much, which I would imagine to be just horrid. Those of us with ADD, however, take dopamine agonists—we need dopamine, and we sure as heck don’t need anything suppressing the function of our central nervous system.

Why I was challenged to discuss psychotropic drugs (which I perceived to be neuroleptics) in an ADD forum, therefore, I do not know, but I did accept the challenge.

Many of the arguments presented for a debate on one’s gender having something to do with the dose of medication that works for them are based on gender—i.e., the basic truth that men usually have different body structures than women do, and that, as such, our metabolisms tend to be different.

Other arguments are based on obesity. Type II Diabetes is very, very common in those who are obese, but general glucose levels—the glucose is the carbohydrate we need to process in order to live—tend to run a little high in those who are obese, Diabetic or not.. (On a side note, Interestingly, schizophrenics have been noted to have irregular glucose levels. See, the size of the putamen is larger in people with schizophrenia, and in their putamen, their glucose metabolic rate is a tad off, so from what I understand, there’s a bit of a sugar imbalance in there. (Explanation: The putamen is a chunk of grey matter in the middle of the brain known best for reinforcement learning, Grey matter is responsible for information processing, and white matter is responsible for information transmission.) Risperdal supposedly straightens that whole glucose deal out, but a study done by a French-Canadian journal I don’t think I’m allowed to use in my Neurobiology class anymore (‘cause it’s got “psych” in the name) is kind of “iffy” on whether it really does that (http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=305268 (http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=305268).)
Also, when describing dose differences and/or decisions to avoid using a certain drug on an obese person (they might have to give them so much they’d induce respiratory suppression, at which point death would result, or toxicity, which could lead to permanent damage.)

While we’re on the subject of damage to the organs, consider the role of our liver. Many psychotrophic drugs are metabolized by the liver: Seroquel, Abilify, BuSpar…the list goes on. (http:// www.fda.gov/cder (http://www.fda.gov/cder))

(Now, what happens when we go out drinking? Who’s most likely to get drunk first, a small person or a larger person? Of course, this is dependent (like many things) on one’s developed tolerance to alcohol—if someone weighs 99 lbs. But has been drinking for years, it’s not illogical to consider the possibility that they’d drink that larger person under the table.)

The Metabolic Syndrome in Patients With Severe Mental Illnesses. (National Library of Medicine)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15361918&itool=iconfft (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15361918&itool=iconfft)
Gender Differences in the Prescribing of Antipsychotic Drugs (American Journal of Psychiatry)
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/8/1324 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/8/1324)

Gender differences in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of psychotropic medication. (National Library of Medicine)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1575248 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1575248)

The National Library of Medicine lists doses that, at the physician’s discretion, may be started at a higher or lower dose depending on body mass. This is indicative of consideration by the medical field to connect a drug’s dose/influence based on size or weight.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/)

Wow...look what I started!!

I go away for a few days and...

Anyways...just to check in. I am feeling 100% BETTER. I think that I had a reaction to the immediate release dex. I tapered it back a bit and am now taking 15 mg am..10-15mg 1:00 pm and 5-10 mg 5ish. I would have to agree with Gregster with his statement about the body weight. I am 6'3, 230 lbs. I am still wondering about the mfg of the drug. I have heard the bad press on the barr, but not much on the Ethex..any comments, history etc??
Mark

This is my first day with the Ethex 10mg tablets. Compared to the 10mg Mallinkcrodt tablets, I can't tell a difference, they work just fine. This being the first day however, impressions may change. If my experience changes, you will hear of it, I assure you.

Howdy all..

Got the doc to get me off the spansules and on the immediate release. I couldn't get the mall..I am on the ethex. I have chewed my lip into shredded meat, my jaw is killing me from chewing gum like a mad dog. I started out with the dose I had before..holy crap!. I backed off to half today and was still chewing my lips up. Ya think I might still be too high?. I was taking 3 10mg spansules am and 2 10mg early afternoon. I took 15mg yesterday am 15 mid aft and 10 early evening. Is this brand a decent brand? I flat out refused the Barr, and was lucky to find this brand. I also have a killer headache. This sucks!
Mach:mad:
So far, the Ethex 10mg tablets are treating me well. This is my first day however. They compare identically in effect, for me, to the Mallinkcrodt tablets. Keep in mind, this is my first day! My experience may change, as might my opinion, you will be updated.