Has anyone ever taken a break over the weekend from taking adderall in order to reduce it's tolerance levels? I'm prescribed to 20mgs XR a day but quickly found that 20mgs wasn't enough because I basically need to be awake for 20 hours for school, work, and recreation. So I upped it on my own to 40mgs the next day. It's been almost a week since then, and now I'm feeling that it's effects have dramatically decreased.

Question is, I don't want to increase my dosage again because it might get my psychiatrist to freak out and send me to rehab or something, so has anyone had any successful experiences with "weekend" breaks to lower tolerance levels?

Lots of people do this - if you are at all worried about tolerence and the adictive potential of Adderall, it might even be a good idea. You wouldn't have to do it every week - if you needed to study or work on the weekend, you don't have to take a holiday, but one indication that a person might have a problem might be if they find they can't ever take a drug holiday, even when they don't really need to focus, etc.
But it's also not necessary for all - many people don't skip days - to each his own!

I'm an advocate for weekend holidays. Wether or not it maintains or controls tolerance levels is up for debate (I believe it does), but for me it is also an important "check" to let me know that I am not becoming dependant on it.

basically need to be awake for 20 hours for school, work, and recreation.Have you looked at any information on the effects of sleep deprivation?
L.

I've heard from a couple of sources on the net that it usually takes 2 days for the body to clear the tolerance. I know that this statement is broad because it all depends on our various circumstances like body chemistry, duration of the usage, amount, and combinations of all sorts of things.
But I am 20 yrs old, 130 lbs, and have been on and off of adderall since Jan 6 (I missed a week because I lost the meds) of last month, so that's like about a month and a half. Then last week my doc upped my dosage to 20mg XR's, which like explained above, I'm actually taking 40mgs.

So my weekend break is starting today and so far I've been kind of depressed, and sluggish. I also feel a bit of social anxiety, but I'm not freaken out or anything, so I have it under control. I guess it would also be helpful to mention that I'm taking 80mgs of Strattera.

Sleep deprivation? Yes, I've looked into it, and surprisngly, I have been affected by it. Sometime last week, I ended up staying awake for almost 3 days and it was pretty bad at the end. I started to get memory lapses, I was very depressed, and my friends said I looked like a zombie. So because of that, I cut off acouple of hours from my job to get more sleep, hoping that the effect of adderall would be stronger once I got a good night sleep, I was wrong.

So I'm really looking forward to this 2 day break. I've heard that you can take a lot of different kinds of supplements, like "L-Dopa" and the list goes on..but does anyone know what the most important Nutrient, supplement, or food, or whatever that tops the best diet to combat this tolerance? I've been drinking a protien drink that contains a lot of Amino Acids including
"L-Tyrosine" which I heard increases dopamine/norepinepherine levels, but I've yet to see any sparking results due to the fact that I just started drinking it yesterday...

Is there a good website that can explain the chemistry involved with adderall, tolerance, supplements, and a healthy diet?

There has never been a documented case of anyone experiencing tolerance to Adderall.

Tolerance has a specific technical definition; nobody can evaluate a personal experience correctly as tolerance, although a person could probably correctly guess from the symptoms if you were taking a drug that has a documented tolerance effect in the brain.

The Gregster is correct that many people do the 'vacation' thing, but it's usefulness is largely a myth. It's reasonably certain that any positive benefits don't have anything to do with actual tolerance.

And Imnapl is right about sleep deprivation being a pretty serious problem. Sleep deprivation might easily skew your judgment about what's happening to the point that messing with your dosage could be dangerous.

Perhaps you could better describe what you're experiencing, because I'm certain that many of us have experienced the same effects.

As long as you model it as tolerance, you won't be able to make the model work in any effective way. A different model of what you're experiencing would likely improve the way you're able to approach your meds.

What exactly is it you're experiencing?

What exactly is it you're experiencing?

bukgait said , " I'm feeling that it's effects have dramatically decreased."
documented or not it is what many people here experience with Adderall .. tolerance ..... Im sure you will go on and on about how something does not exist unless it is documented but for those of us who feel the effects of Aderall dramatically decrease after using it over time we do not need documentation to confirm what we are feeling . ;)

Nope, not going on and on. Almost anybody can understand something repeated once. If you don't get it after that, then you have a different problem.

Whatever you're experiencing, it isn't tolerance. We can tolerate a lot of things, and we have a wide latitude to define what we might mean by it.

But when it comes to drugs, tolerance is specifically defined, and you don't have it. You don't get to arbitrarily redefine it, either.

Sorry you refuse to understand that. But there's no reason to confuse others about it.

In case it wasn't obvious, I was asking for details. I read the post.

Back to the regular thread…

I personally take a lower dose on weekends or whenever I feel I don't really need the full dose. For me, 10 mg is enough that I can maintain one lucid train of thought and can read without immediately forgetting what I read. It takes 20-30 mg for me to be able to block out distractions and/or focus on two things at once (e.g. pay attention to a lecture and copy down notes at the same time). So 10 mg is often enough for me on the weekends. If I don't take meds at all, I get really spacey, become easily overwhelmed by pretty ordinary things, and have a really low tolerance for frustration. So going off meds completely is really not an option for me. It's a little scary to think that's the way I used to be *all the time*!

I personally take a lower dose on weekends or whenever I feel I don't really need the full dose. For me, 10 mg is enough that I can maintain one lucid train of thought and can read without immediately forgetting what I read. It takes 20-30 mg for me to be able to block out distractions and/or focus on two things at once (e.g. pay attention to a lecture and copy down notes at the same time). So 10 mg is often enough for me on the weekends. If I don't take meds at all, I get really spacey, become easily overwhelmed by pretty ordinary things, and have a really low tolerance for frustration. So going off meds completely is really not an option for me. It's a little scary to think that's the way I used to be *all the time*!
Does that ever sound familiar…

We're in about the same place, although we alternate with Ritalin occasionally. That memory of the way we used to be, the way things used to be, is exactly what we use to monitor ourselves. If Kay sees me losing it because the cats won't cooperate, or whatever, she looks at me and we both start to laugh.

Then we grab that pill we forgot to take two hours before.

But that is situation specific, too. It's like we wake up with exactly a quart of patience, and if the situations we’re in use it up, we can lose it if we're not careful. The meds help limit the need to dip into our reserve.

Recently we've begun experimenting with skipping meds for one or two days at a time, partly because of the recent foo-farah over 'drug vacations' here (it's been a while, and we wanted to re-affirm our feel for how long it takes Adderall to clear the system), an partly to experiment with some creative projects.

Our son Bryan rarely uses meds because of their effect on his music, something I want to focus on for a while, too. We have the luxury of playing with what we take mostly because we have an interested and cooperative doctor, and we can sum up our experiences for him in a compact, useful way.

The last big experiment was trying Strattera. It was a dismal failure for me, although our experience doesn't necessarily translate to anyone else's circumstance. Our doctor says people that have been on stimulants are the least likely to have a successful transfer to Strattera.

The biggest part of the equation seems to be how you're dealing with the long term issues. Once they're under control, meds aren't as necessary, if you've managed to get yourself into a good situation. Anything that varies a lot seems to require a little more help to keep the coping mechanisms from breaking.

And experience tells, too. We all change over time, and ADDers change in specific ways for many more years than normals do. It may take us as long as forty years to mature, and messing that process up can leave a person in a permanent state of arrested development, in some ways.

Some of the things that used to be able to get to us are completely defanged now, but when Kay's company merged with another organization last year, it plunged her and everyone else into a hole that most of us would recognize.

Her company had been largely populated with women having/being AD/HD, an unconscious but nonetheless intentional preference of the old owner. But he died, and the new company is bland and completely focused on being as normal as possible; they don't get a thing.

She had to up her dose to compensate, and it's still a problem trying to keep the new bosses from grinding her down. And she's a corporate director. I can't imagine what it's like for the grunts.

I took a vacation yesterday, just for fun. Hadn't done it in a while. It was already 1pm before I even thought about taking my meds in the first place and I figured why not just skip the day. I had no desire to take them really - I didn't feel like I was missing anything, but I didn't get a lot done, and I definately ate too much of the wrong stuff - but I also wasn't trying too hard not to.

That's about how Bryan is with it, too, and Kay's convinced (me, too) that it's specific to how far you've managed to come in fixing all of those little dings and cracks that we accumulate in our selves before we're medicated.

We are all a work in progress, and anyone that has moved far enough and been careful about their situation can do exactly what you describe. We're certain that it's a valuable perspective builder, too.

We never forget that we should be able to live fine without meds. It's the narrow restrictions of a normal's world that causes the friction we chaff under everyday.

What's weird, though, is that I've always been a relatively even-tempered person. I think I was so used to being overwhelmed all the time that I didn't really notice it. Due to a lifetime of assorted garbage, I've sort of developed the "whatever is, is totally normal" defense mechanism. It's only now that I realize just how stressed out I was, all the time, without really even realizing it.

Thanks for everyone's input, I have read the above and glad that I am not the only one who is going through this. Some believe that tolorance is a relative thing which is specific due to certain circumstances, and some see it like I do, which is this "coming-down" effect that gets me depressed and irritated and acting like some drug-fiend.

So anyway, my weekend break went ok. I only completed one day because I had lots of work to do the next day, but I was fine I guess. I felt a bit paranoid here there, usually when I'm around people, talking to my professors, and so on (I also believe I have SAD; social anxiety disorder), because I am more social when I'm taking adderall.

And as far as the Strattera combination, I don't know if it's doing anything.
Theoretically, studies have said that STRATTERA inhibits dopamine and norepinepherine neurotransmitters and soaks them longer in the brain, and ADDERALL increases those neurotransmitters...see what I'm saying?

But back to the point, I started Adderall again the next day after the vacation, and took 20 mgs in the morning to see if I would feel that "virgin" effect. And I did, but it wasn't as strong. Now, I apologize if I rub off like I'm talking like a druggie, but I do take into account of my A.D.D. I have been diagnosed as the "INATTENTIVE" type and have found that Adderall has opened another door in my life; I feel more focused in class, I am happier, my concentration levels have improved, and I can carry conversations better, and more. I AM NOT IN ON IT for that "EUPHORIC" high feeling that most college students go for, I just want to be normal, just like them.

I'm on a tangeant, sorry. So anyway, the 20mgs XR didn't carry me too far. I felt ok for the next 3 hours and there I was again- unsure if it was still in effect. So I took another 20mg XR. *sigh* then once again I felt it wasn't working so I took another about 2 hours after. Yes, 60mgs in total. I don't know what to do.

Should I talk to my doc about another drug like Concerta, Dex, or an immediate release form of Adderall? Or should I talk to her about the types of foods that I should eat so I don't counteract the effects? Because maybe I'm drinking way too much coffee or tea?..

Vitamin C inhibits the absorption of Adderall, so if you're taking it with your morning orange juice you will probably have a reduction in effectiveness.

Personally, I stick with regular release because I need the immediate kick first thing in the morning (mornings SUCK for me). I might explore XR for later in the day at some point, though. Right now I'm still fine-tuning my regular dose. I keep thinking that there *must* be a dose that will let me remember to turn off my headlights when I park my car...

Yes, I found out that VITAMIN C inhibits the effectivness of Adderall. My question is, what is citrus acid? Somewhere along the lines, I've found that VITAMIN C and CITRIC ACID are somewhat the same (I'm sorry, I didn't do too well in Highschool Chemistry!) because I have found that CITRIC ACID is in almost all of the the drinks that I drink!?

Now as far as turning on your headlights..umm, I dunno but isn't that kind of like, common sense? Sorry, I don't mean to be offensive more so insulting, but do we really need to rely on a drug to utilize our brains to that capacity? I'm sure you're a bit sarcastic, so i won't hold it against you.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this thread will go but the main point or question that I'd like to find the answer to is on the topic of tolerance...or is it?...

Are we really in it for that high...and does that high imply or give us focus? Dopamine is what Adderall works off of. Dopamine is also what cocaine works off of. Do you see my point? Ok, so research says that people like us suffer from a brain condition specifically in the frontal lobes and they say that there is less activity within those lobes compared to "normal" people...

It saddens me to always wake up in the morning and wonder if my medication will work to its fullest potential. This nonstop irritation bugs me to the point where I question these meds that we are put on...

Am I an addict? Am I further rationalizing or excusing myself today because I cannot focus?...What ever happened to my will power? What ever happened to me feeling like ME? Where did I go wrong? When did someone figure out that PEOPLE LIKE US aren't as normal as THEM? Who are they to tell us that we attention problems? Lots of the important figures out today such as a minority of past united states presidents and more astoundingly, Albert Einstein had "ADHD!"

And sure, so what if we tend to be more innatentive, hyperactive, bored, and disassociated with the rest?? What does that say? Aren't we just bored easily then most people? Aren't we more interested at what is at hand?

I don't want to go off in a tangeant, so I'll cut it here.

We can continue this thread and talk about tolerance and find ways to get us higher.
We can continue this thread and find logical and rational solutions to the reasons of of inattentiveness/hyperactiveness.
We can can do whatever.
But can I tell you guys something?
I faced a man in a yellow/orange toga. He was balled and preffered to sit indian style. He was my parent's motivating figure whom resembled god. They were buddhists.
And he looked at me. But I didn't feel the same. He looked at me with concern and worry, for I was once one of his students and he knew a bit about me to know what was going on. But he didn't know that I was under the influence of amphetamines. More so, had he heard anything about "Attention deficit disorder?"
I felt awkard and I felt fake. I felt detatched and embarrassed.

I'll leave it here.
Everyone, please feel free to respond. Once again I do not mean to offend or insult anyone. So please, do not let my long passage intimidate your sentence of a question.

I said turn *off* my headlights, specifically when it is foggy or rainy and the lights aren't obvious once I've left my car.

If you're going to insult me for making a mistake, then I have to ask what dose of meds it will take for you to learn to read one-syllable words.

Yes, it was unfair of me to say that to you. Just as it was unfair of you to say what you did to me. Grow up.

When did someone figure out that PEOPLE LIKE US aren't as normal as THEM Good question .

Good question .
And a question no one can answer, until some smart person can define "normal".:)

On a side note, it is not clear as to whether Einstein or Newton had ADHD or Aspergers...

As for tolerance, I did an experiment on myself. I don't take amphetamines except my liquid dex=coffee, but I do take Klonopin for a disease called Menieres Disease which is slowly sending me deaf. I take 4mg of Klonopin per night, and have done so since 1995, and I don't feel anything; have never "upped" the dosage....until my experiment.

When I first started taking this drug, it literally knocked me out, made me feel good, calm and relaxed....and did it's job by putting my eighth cranial nerve slightly asleep.

It was still doing a fine job at keeping that nerve asleep, but no longer did I feel the drugs "soothing" effects.

This weekend past, I took one extra mg. To my shock, my husband could not even get me awake. It took him 2 solid hours.

So, whilst this is NOT an amphetamine drug, it is still a drug which affects the CNS, and is a drug I am obviously addicted to. I'm not happy about this, and the "experiment" is a shock.

Mee, thank you for posting the links about Klonopin in another thread. They came in use!

Tolerance does develop imo with any CNS.

~Viktoria

Ever heard of CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy}

Here is a ridiculously simply explaination of how CBT works.

Take one small coloured square of "tearoff note pad" Write the words

"Turn your headlights off" in bright large fluro colouring on it.

Stick this on the pad in the middle of your steering wheel, or on the pod that holds your ignition switch. Each time your remove your keys from the ignition switch you are going to see this "reminder note" and "brain trainer"

I'll bet within a week you will not need the note any longer and you will not need stimulants to remember this. This is called "retraining your brain" and it beats the hell out of dealing with all the potential nasty side effects that higher doses of amphetamines create in the majority of people using these drugs.

If you doubt the above claim by me regarding long term side effects of amphetamine's and related stimulant medications, then go to GOOGLE and type in "dexamphetamine+sideeffects" or "Adderall+side effects.

Doing this reading for 30 minutes to 1 hour will be a massive "eye-opener" for you and give you some real "negatives" to weight up the supposed "positives" of stimulant medication.

For the record........I was on dexamphetamine for ADHD continiously for at least three years. I am now off it and wish the hell I had never started taking it at all. I was never informed of all the potential side effects before commencing taking it.








I said turn *off* my headlights, specifically when it is foggy or rainy and the lights aren't obvious once I've left my car.

If you're going to insult me for making a mistake, then I have to ask what dose of meds it will take for you to learn to read one-syllable words.

Yes, it was unfair of me to say that to you. Just as it was unfair of you to say what you did to me. Grow up.

Yes, I found out that VITAMIN C inhibits the effectivness of Adderall. My question is, what is citrus acid? Somewhere along the lines, I've found that VITAMIN C and CITRIC ACID are somewhat the same (I'm sorry, I didn't do too well in Highschool Chemistry!) because I have found that CITRIC ACID is in almost all of the the drinks that I drink!?
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/CitricAcid/Main.htm

Yes, they are basically the same and would affect your adderall uptake. Not so good if you are placed on a dose and the acid cancels out the merits of any drug.

Ancient Music I agree about Cognitive therapy here is a link that shows what you are talking about ... it may also shed a little light for you also bukgait
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_non-drug_therapies?open

If combining medication with non-drug therapies ensures a higher success rate then I do not know why most Dr's do not suggest it .

The post-it note is a good idea. Thanks.

However, I don't think going without meds is going to work for me right now. I'm in a tough pre-med program and frankly, my brain does not work well enough to learn material without meds. Believe me, speed is not my first choice. But given a choice between meds and being functionally illiterate despite a 140+ IQ...I'll take meds.

Anyway, I'm not sure where this thread will go but the main point or question that I'd like to find the answer to is on the topic of tolerance...or is it?...
No, it isn't. Is there something about this that you don't get, too? It's not that hard; if you disagree, state why, and give a reason, preferably with hard sources comparable to ours.

You do believe in actually having some evidence to support what you believe, other than just making it up, right?

Please don't keep insisting that your experience is tolerance, because it's not. You're in a public forum, and denying or purposely misstating facts could have unintended consequences on those reading what you post.

Not being responsible for your statements is just selfish. If you need to understand better, just ask. That's what the forums are for. We thought that was what you were doing, but the answers are getting lost for some reason.


Are we really in it for that high...and does that high imply or give us focus? Dopamine is what Adderall works off of. Dopamine is also what cocaine works off of. Do you see my point?
Nope, and I hope you aren't being rude enough to imply a comparison between Adderall and cocaine. We aren't that gullible here, and I don't believe you really meant to make that statement, if you think about it for a minute.

This reminds me of Immanual Velikovsky's indiscriminant comparison of hydrocarbons and carbohydrates in his book Worlds in Collision.

He notes that comets may be composed of hydrocarbons, and then jumps to the conclusion that a brush with a comet's tail might explain the 'manna from heaven' story in the Bible, because manna (bread, essentially) is largely carbohydrates.

Unfortunately, even the class idiot could spot the problems with that, and Velikovsky's reputation went downhill from there.

I might point out that you are on thin ice saying that 'Adderall works off of dopamine', or 'cocaine works off of dopamine'. They both have been demonstrated to affect dopamine levels, but most of the data on this has not been in Real Live Subjects.

It is largely an assumption that the effect on dopamine levels in functioning neural tissue is the same as what is observed in the lab. But it is an even greater stretch to assume that the effect on dopamine directly results in the behavioral changes we can observe, either in ourselves or others.

Sorry, but it’s true: there's very little hard science behind these ideas, as of yet. And there are very good reasons to doubt that simple chemical effects are an adequate source of explanation for the established drug effects.


Ok, so research says that people like us suffer from a brain condition specifically in the frontal lobes and they say that there is less activity within those lobes compared to "normal" people...
Nope, again. There are claims to that effect, but no real research that establishes any of these assumptions. I mean literally that. The reports are bogus, because the research is flawed.

If you doubt that, take a look at the experimental methods used in the imaging studies you're referring to. If you find one single statement that supports or justifies in any way the methods used to get the images, please post it here.

We haven't seen any, but then, we know something about the research methods being used, and it doesn't surprise us at all. The missing link is in establishing that the brain activity measured is in fact what the research says it is.

In most cases, the methods aren't even described fully, despite the fact that the work purports to measure activity that doesn't even exist if the method is wrong. It's a bit like someone waving an odd looking object and claiming that we've had three inches of rain in the last day and a half.

It's customary to show the odd object and explain its function. In the case of the frontal lobe stuff being talked up around the web, it's equivalent to finding that the high was three degrees over the last day and a half, and the odd object is only a Celsius thermometer. There may not have been any rain at all. It's really that bad.

The functions associated with the frontal lobes are trivially simple to challenge, and many people have been doing so here and elsewhere for quite a few years. Think about this: once you take into account all of the memory functions and related stuff that can be established as being linked to the frontal lobes, is there any neural mass left to be associated with the AD/HD 'condition'?

One of the prime examples of how these ideas warp the character of the debate is the way that it plays on the idea that there is something wrong with us. It ain't so, friend, and it's a vile canard if there ever was one.

Here's a simple question to help restore a correct focus: what is the specific implication of having less frontal lobe activity?

I have yet to see any researcher make a specific claim; usually, what you hear is something about a lack of control of impulsiveness. That is a claim that goes right along with the idea that the frontal lobes are the seat of our 'executive functions'.

Only, we were around when that term was coined, and it doesn't mean what people like Barkley claim it does. It was meant to be a sort of mental place holder for something that wasn't understood about the architecture of the mind and brain. It was never meant to be applied literally.

Why does more impulsiveness result in less activity? If the idea is that we are seeing less control, rather than more impulsivity, why is there no comparable increase reported in a different area of the brain, where the impulsivity might be centered?

The quick answer is that the impulsive behavior isn't being monitored, because the subjects are in a quiet, controlled lab situation, necessary to get any image at all. We're only seeing the lack of activity in the control area, the frontal lobes.

But if that's the case, why is there any activity, and why is it any different in normals? These aren't difficult questions to frame, even for the uninitiated, and they point to some severe problems with the research claims. But they've never been adequately addressed.

Of course, you can't take money from the suckers if you don't put up a good act, so the people that are out there talking about this stuff are never going to quit, unless we make them.

Do a search for some of our previous posts if you want in a bit more detail. Many other forum members have contributed good stuff to this debate, and it makes for interesting reading.

* * * * *

There is no profit in favoring these ideas if your goal is to understand your own experience. What normals call high isn't what we ADDers call it, anyway. That's a realization that many of us have come to, but it applies to all of us whether or not we've figured it out.

Drugs work differently on us. Calling the effect 'being high', even in your own mind, only tempts someone to equate our drugs with stuff like cocaine.

That is unfair to every one of us. And like I said, just plain rude.

And finally, please lighten up a bit. Jeeze, you're making us out to be druggies. Nothing could be further from the truth, and you are interested in getting at the truth, right?

Of course, if you just go to Google and read everything that pops up on any subject, you'll only learn about how much B.S. and outright lying there is going on out there about whatever you Googled.

I just did as advised, Google dexamphetamine+sideeffects, and the first hit has this as the primary conclusion:


Many symptoms commonly attributed to stimulant medication are actually preexisting characteristics of children with ADHD and improve with stimulant treatment.
Pretty much what we've been telling y'all, eh? And not very eye opening, unless you were actually anticipating the boogeyman. In that case, you'll be disappointed, at least.

A better look at the article reveals something more interesting, the fact that the measure of side effects is a fairly controversial subjective scale that depends on the untrained memory of the parents.

The object of the scale is to produce a valid response by introducing a standardized method of rating, and the controversy is due to the fact that the standardized method is introduced after the events, and depends on the memory stored before the standardization could possibly have a beneficial effect.

What's worse, the subsequent evaluations are made after the standardized scale is familiar, and can't be considered comparable to the original data. So there's doubt about the data, at least.

And there's more, because the practice of describing the results of applying the scale as side effects is open to question. The misapplication of the term side effect to describe a subjective measure of behavior in children is a problem yet to be resolved.

Now you weren't all expected to know that, but you are expected to be intelligent enough to recognize that you don't.

The problem with any research is sifting through the results to find the truthful bits, and knowing how to tell them when you find them. The problem with web research is that it ain't research at all, and virtually everybody that does it is not prepared or qualified to interpret the results.

It only goes down hill from there. The next few references are really the same research. The next different hit is a pdf article about Dexedrine that is chock full of misinformation, particularly about the undercurrent of illegal use. The claims that it exists are left unsupported. How scientific is that? Not very.

Some ideas (like the popular misconceptions about illegal use of our drugs among school children) can be generated by exactly this sort of exercise. If enough people read enough places that such a thing is true, the public perception of the possibility is introduced and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

All it takes is a few general statements and some hand waving, like advising people to go off and Google dex and side effects and be very scared.

I'm not sure what the agenda is with that, because it seems obvious that we should be reminding each other not to fall prey to innocently believing officious sounding web drivel. We’re a support group, and not blindly accepting what Google presents you is ordinary common sense, isn't it?

We should be able to support each other well enough to avoid losing sight of reality like this. Kay and I have formal training in both the subject and interpreting stuff that pops up when you research the subject on the open web.

Shoot, we’re trained to interpret the stuff that pops up when we use fancy private research services, and that stuff is way better focused than this. You can restrict a search entirely to recent articles in peer reviewed journals, if you want. And you still have to filter that, for the same kind of reasons I gave at the top about the Australian study.

If anyone is interested we are willing for the next few weeks to review anything that you feel is serious and interesting on this subject, and give our comments exactly as if we were considering it for use in a overview. Only serious requests, please, and only as an exercise to get a feel for the process of maintaining a critical eye for this sort of thing.

We are all really a lot smarter than this is beginning to make us look. This is science, but it isn't rocket science, people. Let's grow up and get a grip, OK?

Stabile:

Calm down now - take a deep breath, count to 10, punch a pillow - it will be OK. ;)

I believe we are trying to go beyond medical orthodoxy and the constraints of standard definitions.

Some of us are concerned about the long term consequences of taking Amphetimines. I don't have to tell you that Paxil, Celebrex, Vioxx can cause trouble....

This is a forum to share our opinions - even though they might not be "fact" or "medically proven".

…If combining medication with non-drug therapies ensures a higher success rate then I do not know why most Dr's do not suggest it.
That's the standard practice.

You might not recognize your physician's trained evaluation of how well your coping strategies are working, or what he suggests to help fine tune them.

But virtually all physicians that prescribe drugs for AD/HD do that, even if they don't specifically refer the ADDer to a professional coach (for example).

The myth of school kids being blindly doped at the whim of their teachers has never been more than exactly that, a myth. Other horror stories are equally unfounded.

In the USofA it takes both a primary and a confirming diagnosis before anything can be prescribed for AD/HD, and it's widely recognized that drugs are only a small part of effective therapy.

We've never heard of a doctor that didn't do that…

I tend to avoid using the term addiction in many situations where
others use it because it is not clearly defined. It is clear that
stimulants can be abused and are by some people. Some people may
develop a physical dependence to some medications that they take for a
long time but this is not addiction.
Since stimulants tend to make people feel better, feel more focused etc
many people may see this as a benefit. It may be more in the perception
than in reality however.

Note by a doctor with high credentials. A physical dependence IS a tolerance. He believes in full CBT for these conditions. This was a private email to me, but the last sentence is rather profound.

He has credentials, and is very well accepted in the medical community in USA.

We should all be concerned.

From the Adderall label.....

AMPHETAMINES HAVE A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE. ADMINISTRATION OF AMPHETAMINES FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME MAY LEAD TO DRUG DEPENDENCE.

ADDERALL XR™ is a Schedule II controlled substance. Amphetamines have been extensively abused. Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2004/021303s005lbl.pdf

Drug holidays - lets me know this is not happening to me.

The myth of school kids being blindly doped at the whim of their teachers has never been more than exactly that, a myth. Other horror stories are equally unfounded.

In the USofA it takes both a primary and a confirming diagnosis before anything can be prescribed for AD/HD, and it's widely recognized that drugs are only a small part of effective therapy.

We've never heard of a doctor that didn't do that…

Just becuase you have not heard of something does not mean it does not exist . ADD medications are most often prescribed by family physicians and not by a pediatric psychiatrist . Many Dr.'s are blindly doping school kids at the whim of their teachers and parents . Come on grow up and get a grip, OK?
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Just becuase you have not hear of something does not mean it does not exist . ADD medications are most often prescribed by family physicians and not by a pediatric psychiatrist . Many Dr's are blindly dopeing school kids at the whim of their teachers and parents . Come on grow up and get a grip, OK?
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Neither Andrei, nor myself, nor his son were EVER offered CBT or any other form of treatment other than stimulants. We chose that method on our own.
I suppose it could be said, we used our intellect.

Thanks for the post Mee. This goes on ALL the time!

Many Dr's are blindly dopeing school kids at the whim of their teachers and parents .
This is not the case in my school district.
L.

This has gotten off topic and is starting to get nasty, so I'm closing the thread.