View Full Version : From The Atlantic: "ADHD, or Childhood Narcissism?"


namazu
09-17-13, 02:02 PM
"ADHD, or Childhood Narcissism" by Enrico Gnaulati (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/09/adhd-or-childhood-narcissism/279660)(who has a book to sell you...)

I don't even know where to start with this article...which strikes me as an odd choice for The Atlantic.

This is another in a long line of blame-the-family/blame-society "Most cases of ADHD just represent the overmedicalization of normal behaviors and could be addressed with firm limits and discipline." articles that completely ignore the "developmentally inappropriate" criterion and the fact that many parents whose children receive ADHD diagnoses have tried sensible parenting strategies without success.

He claims to support his hypothesis with research, but he employs the (limited) research he mentions in what seems to me to be a very speculative fashion, interwoven with anecdotes of (ostensibly) invented children.

I don't disagree that parenting strategies can make a difference in the behavior of kids (with and without ADHD diagnoses), but to suggest that the majority of cases of diagnosed ADHD simply represent parenting failures or indulgence of childhood bad habits seems rather over-the-top to me.

salleh
09-17-13, 02:04 PM
the man's an idiot .....ADHD is real, and there's thousands of Pdocs who say so...what the F*** are HIS credentials?.....jerk.....( not you) but the Atlantic is a well-respected mag I thought ...

so wrong in more ways than I can count !

Lunacie
09-17-13, 02:19 PM
Lack of discipline does not cause ADHD. And "firm limits and discipline"
doesn't make it go away. My parents gave firm limits and discipline, and
I ended up with an aversion to authority.


Sadly some people will buy his book and his BS. :(

Stevuke79
09-17-13, 03:11 PM
.. And "firm limits and discipline"
doesn't make it go away. My parents gave firm limits and discipline, and
I ended up with an aversion to authority.

Your parents simply didn't go far enough. I've found that if you go so far as to break a child's spirit many behaviors are corrected. As for the ADHD, a constant feeling of fear can substitute for the stimulation a child craves.

I'm looking forward to doing this with my own child. It's all natural and doesn't involve any harmful chemicals that are sold to line the pockets of big pharma.

This is a joke and a deadpan mockery of what the article suggests. I would never do anything like this - I'm only pointing out that apparently the author of the article would.

Stevuke79
09-17-13, 03:21 PM
"ADHD, or Childhood Narcissism" by Enrico Gnaulati (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/09/adhd-or-childhood-narcissism/279660)(who has a book to sell you...)

I don't even know where to start with this article...which strikes me as an odd choice for The Atlantic.

This is another in a long line of blame-the-family/blame-society "Most cases of ADHD just represent the overmedicalization of normal behaviors and could be addressed with firm limits and discipline." articles that completely ignore the "developmentally inappropriate" criterion and the fact that many parents whose children receive ADHD diagnoses have tried sensible parenting strategies without success.

He claims to support his hypothesis with research, but he employs the (limited) research he mentions in what seems to me to be a very speculative fashion, interwoven with anecdotes of (ostensibly) invented children.

I don't disagree that parenting strategies can make a difference in the behavior of kids (with and without ADHD diagnoses), but to suggest that the majority of cases of diagnosed ADHD simply represent parenting failures or indulgence of childhood bad habits seems rather over-the-top to me.

The real problem with crap like this is two fold:
1. There is some truth in it. Some parents want a diagnosis,the meds, and DONT spend enough time with their children. If you ignore most children for several hours a day in front of the TV with sugar, when they get up to do homework or whatever, you will noticed some mild and temporary traits and behaviors that resemble ADHD. Low blood sugar, irritability, detachment, even some nervousness and anxiety from the transition much they way an ADHD'er does all the time, and they may even fidget through the transition.

But they can go to sleep, wake up the next day and function normally - and therefore that's not ADHD!! (I hate morons)

2. ADHD is very irritating for adults.
Think of the terms to describe ADHD traits. Narcissism, fatigue sounds like laziness, inattentive sounds like apathy, even distractibility sounds like selfishness and not something you want in a friend or a student.

And it ****** teachers off when they lose it with these kids (losing it is understandable to an extent; teachers are human; ADHD is irritating) and then they're told it's not their fault. ie: you just ripped that kids to shreds for something he can't help.

Of course the establishment resists learning that about themselves.

namazu
09-17-13, 03:26 PM
Your parents simply didn't go far enough. I've found that if you go so far as to break a child's spirit many behaviors are corrected. As for the ADHD, a constant feeling of fear can substitute for the stimulation a child craves.

I'm looking forward to doing this with my own child. It's all natural and doesn't involve any harmful chemicals that are sold to line the pockets of big pharma.
I think you need to add the "tongue-in-cheek" tags around this... ;)

Lunacie
09-17-13, 03:27 PM
Your parents simply didn't go far enough. I've found that if you go so far as to break a child's spirit many behaviors are corrected. As for the ADHD, a constant feeling of fear can substitute for the stimulation a child craves.

I'm looking forward to doing this with my own child. It's all natural and doesn't involve any harmful chemicals that are sold to line the pockets of big pharma.

Not so funny this time. :(

Stevuke79
09-17-13, 03:28 PM
In all seriousness, is it actually important that I do that? (im not so technical) If so, I'll figure out what tags are and I'll do it.

namazu
09-17-13, 03:34 PM
In all seriousness, is it actually important that I do that? (im not so technical) If so, I'll figure out what tags are and I'll do it.
No, there are no formal "tongue-in-cheek" tags. (Would be useful, though!)

But there are a number of members who tend to take things rather literally, especially when deadpanned as well as you did, so I was hoping to point out your intent before you got any "hate mail". :)

I assumed you were spoofing the perspective taken in the article.

Canadian Mess
09-17-13, 09:29 PM
Ah, more trash talk about ADHD, that's my favourite after a rough day thanks to my fake disorder apparently. My parents should have disciplined me more, because being grounded, having constant fights and spankings weren't enough to snap me out of ADHD that we didn't know I had.

Sarcasm level: 3 facepalms out of 5. :doh::doh::doh:I think I'll invent a 5 point scale for sarcasm for us to use- the currency is facepalms.

Stevuke79
09-17-13, 09:37 PM
If only we had your sarcasm scale a few hours ago we'd have avoided an entire thread-splitting digression! :)

Carol
09-24-13, 02:18 AM
And another thing .....
This is no ordinary idiot, this is an idiot with a hidden agenda.

He's a Ph.D. (not an MD), and he is not allowed to prescribe medication--which has been proven beyond any doubt to be the most effective treatment for ADHD -- a biologically/genetically determined disorder. He can only offer "talking therapy, but fewer and fewer are buying, so he needs to convince everyone that ADHD is not a medical disorder. He can TALK you out of it.

A similar backlash happened about twenty years ago when the first antidepressants were introduced. Psychologists/psychotherapists saw a dramatic decline in business, and many protested loudly about antidepressants (which is the most effective treatment for depression). Even some psychiatrists (who are MDs and can prescribe medication) joined in, because back then many of them also offered "talking therapy." It’s a lot easier to get rich charging ridiculous fees to listen to six patients a day talk about their problems than to see one every fifteen minutes, record medical histories, check vital signs, write prescriptions, adjust prescriptions, keep up with the latest developments in medications—all for less money.

This kind of profit-motivated pontification is particularly damaging to ADHD patients because untreated ADHD has very serious consequences throughout the lifespan.

As for the article’s author, his need to drum up business is evidenced by his website. Under “specializations” [site is at article author's last name .net / specializations] , the repetition of every permutation of “ADHD,” “testing,” “therapy,” “Pasadena,” etc. is called “keyword spamming.” It’s an attempt to trick Google into driving more users to his website. Google now demotes websites that use keyword spamming.

The best response may be to write a Letter to the Editor (use the drop-down menu next to “Issue” and click on “Letter to the Editor”: http://www.theatlantic.com/contact/), and complain about the decline of their editorial standards, as evidenced by this ridiculous, damaging, profit-motivated article. In fact, we should complain whenever we come across this kind of nonsense. Editors do pay attention and they need to be educated about ADHD, as does the general public (and not by articles such as these).
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Carol
09-24-13, 03:28 AM
My Letter to the Editor of the Atlantic:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Dear Mr. James Bennet,

You published an article, “ADHD, or Childhood Narcissism?” by Enrico Gnaulati, which has greatly dismayed many members of the forum “addforums.com,” which has 75,000 members. This link will take you to the discussion: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1543242#post1543242 .

As you can see, we are very disappointed with the decline of your editorial standards. A consortium of international scientists directly addressed such articles in the Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, Vol. 5, No. 2, June 2002. Their article, entitled “International Consensus Statement on ADHD,” begins:

"We, the undersigned consortium of international scientists, are deeply concerned about the periodic inaccurate portrayal of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in media reports. This is a disorder with which we are all very familiar and toward which many of us have dedicated scientific studies if not entire careers. We fear that inaccurate stories rendering ADHD as myth, fraud, or benign condition may cause thousands of sufferers not to seek treatment for their disorder. It also leaves the public with a general sense that this disorder is not valid or real or consists of a rather trivial affliction." (http://psych.colorado.edu/~willcutt/pdfs/Barkley_2002.pdf)

It is signed by approximately eighty scientists, mostly from universities and medical schools (three from Harvard).

Please consider this statement when publishing articles on ADHD in the future.

Carol xxxxxx, Ph.D.
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Stevuke79
09-24-13, 05:58 PM
My Letter to the Editor of the Atlantic:
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Dear Mr. James Bennet,
You published an article, “ADHD, or Childhood Narcissism?” by Enrico Gnaulati, which has greatly dismayed many members of the forum “addforums.com,” which has 75,000 members...
As you can see, we are very disappointed with the decline of your editorial standards. A consortium of international scientists directly addressed such articles in the Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, Vol. 5, No. 2, June 2002. Their article, entitled “International Consensus Statement on ADHD,” begins:
"We, the undersigned consortium of international scientists, are deeply concerned about the periodic inaccurate portrayal of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in media reports...
It is signed by approximately eighty scientists, mostly from universities and medical schools (three from Harvard). Please consider this statement when publishing articles on ADHD in the future.
Carol xxxxxx, Ph.D.
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I am in awe! Well freakin done!!

salleh
09-24-13, 09:31 PM
You know what really gets me is how freaked out everyone gets at how the numbers up kids diagnosed is so awful .....

well if it turns out that 10 % of the population has ADHD, then 10% of the population HAS ADHD .....period .....it just means that earlier, fewer people were diagnosed or accurately diagnosed ....


so what if it's 10% or 3% or 20 % ...it is what it is .....

Stevuke79
09-24-13, 10:42 PM
if it turns out that 10 % of the population has ADHD, then 10% of the population HAS ADHD ..
You said it!

BellaVita
09-24-13, 10:50 PM
You know what really gets me is how freaked out everyone gets at how the numbers up kids diagnosed is so awful .....

well if it turns out that 10 % of the population has ADHD, then 10% of the population HAS ADHD .....period .....it just means that earlier, fewer people were diagnosed or accurately diagnosed ....


so what if it's 10% or 3% or 20 % ...it is what it is .....

:goodpost: :)

daveddd
09-25-13, 06:16 AM
ive seen up to 30% percent of the population having some of the human traits that classify adhd

and affecting their life negatively