View Full Version : Do you believe in reincarnation ?


Gilthranon
09-24-13, 02:19 AM
Ok I got the most awful past life reading. Just because, potentially, a reading from an anonymous woman coincidentally explains some things in my life I should change my beliefs ? No. If I don't have my principles, I don't have anything.

As much as I do not believe in it it had a negative impact on my mood so I'm looking for some intelligent reassurance hopefully proving the impossibility of the theory of reincarnation. Of course, any valuable argument, belief, contribution to the thread is more than welcome.

The results of the past life (being tortured etc.) even have some logical consequences in my current life but there is no scientific logical explanation for reincarnation and it makes no sense. I have deeper theories but I have a meeting to attend so I'll reserve these for later. As this past life really bothers me, I'd like other people's arguments and opinions.

Do you believe, and why, in reincarnation or not ?

Daydreamin22
09-24-13, 02:32 AM
I should have said "other"

IndieVisible
09-24-13, 02:43 AM
I said no because it's unnecessary and a over kill. All you need is a purgatory if one wants to believe in myths.

stef
09-24-13, 02:52 AM
No,I do not believe in reincarnation;
every "life" is new;
however I believe we can be touched by those who have passed.
(there is no logic or reason to this of course).

dvdnvwls
09-24-13, 03:06 AM
No. I don't believe that I will survive my own death. Beliefs in reincarnation, afterlife, heaven, hell, purgatory, and so on, are all based on that same idea of my surviving my own death, and I think they're all equally silly and equally unnecessary. If I survive, then I'm not dead and they shouldn't sign my death certificate or hold a funeral. If I'm dead, then remember me, be kind to each other in memory of me - but that's it, there's nothing of me left.

Hmmm. I don't think I believed in it last time either. :)

Fuzzy12
09-24-13, 03:44 AM
No. I don't believe that I will survive my own death. Beliefs in reincarnation, afterlife, heaven, hell, purgatory, and so on, are all based on that same idea of my surviving my own death, and I think they're all equally silly and equally unnecessary. If I survive, then I'm not dead and they shouldn't sign my death certificate or hold a funeral. If I'm dead, then remember me, be kind to each other in memory of me - but that's it, there's nothing of me left.

Hmmm. I don't think I believed in it last time either. :)

:lol:

I don't believe in it either. Anything is possible of course but I think it's highly unlikely. I do believe in the law of conservation of energy but not in a way that you're sense of self or your ego or any form of you is preserved. Just the basic building blocks of the universe.

Fuzzy12
09-24-13, 03:55 AM
I know somebody who does past life regression therapy and have asked her about it extensively. please trust me when I say it's absolute bollocks. The same person also does angel therapy where she helps you get in touch with your guardian angel. :rolleyes:

stef
09-24-13, 04:02 AM
also a lot of beliefs have caused nothing but pain, suffering and immense guilt, in this life. Introducing concepts of "hell" and "purgatory" to an innocent child can be very damaging. (please remove this post if it is against guidelines...).

dvdnvwls
09-24-13, 04:24 AM
As this past life really bothers me, I'd like other people's arguments and opinions.
Sounds to me as if you're treating this "past life reading" as a given fact. Are you?

sarek
09-24-13, 04:35 AM
I voted other because i personally believe its a bit more complicated than either yes or no.

Abi
09-24-13, 04:54 AM
Voted no...

Unless you count my rotting corpse being fertiliser for plants or something :>

Gilthranon
09-24-13, 08:27 AM
First of - thanks for responding. Although I would have preferred a bit personal support for the fact that I felt awful - but maybe that's me being unreasonable...

Sounds to me as if you're treating this "past life reading" as a given fact. Are you?
Well... my black 'n white mind yes unfortunately, I have an awful tendency to instinctively assume whatever people tell me is a fact... but now... after reading comments... dead means dead. Not life so no... but somewhere it scares me. I will post the reading in a second.

Gilthranon
09-24-13, 08:27 AM
I see you in Japan



You are an army officer of the 3rd rank in the disenchanting war. (you will need to google)???? I have no idea?



You were in charge of redirecting missiles to the first national guard of France. Your mission was to sabotage the turks.



You and your partner were sitting watching radars, when an explosion imploded your little look out area, you were flung into the air, and one of your arms was blown clean off, up to the shoulder. You landed shoulder down, engraining dirt into your open wound. Your partner died at impact, you could see him laying face down all contorted, when French soldiers came scouring the hit area. You watched as they lifted his head up to check if he was alive or dead, you never knew one way or the other and it looked as though they didn’t either. They shot him anyway, in the head.



You screamed out “NOoooo” and one of them ran and hit you over the head with his rifle butt.



They made you get up, and you discovered you could no longer walk, you had to be helped by them, they were not happy, and they were rough. You leaned on one of their shoulders and hopped back to their camp. Your bad legs foot was dangling as it was broken at the ankle. Just hanging off your leg. You were in a lot of pain and confusion was about you as your hearing etc was effected by the blast.



Thrown to the ground in a makeshift prison cell, where you were kept over time. They threw scraps of food to you and out of extreme hunger you devoured them. Your wounds were not seen to properly and you suffered. Septicaemia kicked in to your shoulder and you became delirious. But in the meantime, you watched as they tortured and degraded some of your fellow soldiers, You grew to hate them passionately. You would cry. You knew they would not torture you because you were in so much pain already that torture would have been wasted on you. Instead they tortured you by making you watch them torture others.



I can see them putting maggots into your arm, to help clean the wound. They could have given you some medicine etc, but this was their way of making it harder for you. They did prefer you were able to be tortured so they could retrieve information from you. But on the other hand they didn’t care if you died slowly.



They eventually noticed you hadn’t moved for days, you were laying in a pool of sweat from the infection in the arm, you were thin and boney from lack of nutrition. And once you were rendered useless to them. They shot you in the head. But you were totally oblivious to that. And when you crossed over to the other side, you were told to stand up, and you were very surprised to find yourself in whiteness with a spirit before you. You felt quite confused but relieved and liked the way your body felt, light and free of pain. You had no idea you had died, so confusion grew. Eventually you were convinced you had died and cross over into the light(so to speak).



In that time in the prison camp, you had learnt to hate, and you envisioned many ways in which you would like to hurt these soldiers who were hurting your fellow prisoners, and you grew to enjoy your visions of them in pain. It was all you could do to keep your sanity. For you could not move, hence you could not react physically at any opportune time, they could not understand your language. So your only solace was to have these stories in your mind, where you would see yourself hurting them in all sorts of painful ways, slow tortures etc. You would merely lay still in all your pain, close your eyes and envision these tortures, especially whilst they were torturing others. It became your bandaide so to speak, it helped you get through and you came to rely on this a great deal. You did this until you died.



So when you were greeted on the other side by the beautiful spirit (your guardian spirit) he said to you “you do not need to have those thoughts anymore.” You believed him, but were unable to let them go out of fear, it was natural for you to obtain this defence system you developed for yourself. It prevented you from feeling pain for those who hurt. But more importantly it prevented you from acknowledging the truth of the situation and continues to do so today.



On some level you believe you enjoy having dark thoughts, and the enjoyment part comes from enjoying watching the enemy suffer in that life (in your mind). but they are merely a diversion from the truth, from pain. You run from your inner truth and this may try to show itself via dreams of escaping attackers etc. This will only grow louder and louder in life and cause a great deal of anxt and sickness if you do not take time for yourself and look inward and face the pain. Accept the pain. Then let it go. The one thing a male does so much better than a female is let things go, women are hopeless when it comes to this as we are more emotional. But men can do it easily and so can you.



It is for you to discover in this life that part of yourself that lets go, in doing so, your defence system will slowly break down. It is not an overnight healing, it will happen over time and as time goes on, it will get easier and easier, and you will grow happier and happier.



I see you with children in your future and you will feel an overwhelming instinct to protect them, you will have a tendency to overreact to them stepping out in life. Pull yourself back and focus on external reality, not your inner workings or impulses. Learn to separate the two and you will find your way forward.

stef
09-24-13, 08:45 AM
THIS IS HORRIBLE. NO WONDER YOU FOUND IT UPSETTING. :grouphug:

Gilthranon
09-24-13, 09:20 AM
Thanks, yes indeed I didn't like or expect this. Somehow it's ironic cuz before telling my friend she could tell the lady to 'read' my picture of me, I first told her the worst thing for me to expect, my worst fear so to be prepared for the worst and it only could become better - well my worst fear realized :D Thanks for the support stef :) and thank the rest for helping me not believe in this

mctavish23
09-24-13, 09:41 AM
Yes, but wtf is "Other ?" :confused:

Is it like ... "Do You Believe Rasslin Is Real ? " :eyebrow:


u r welcome :cool:

phantasm
09-24-13, 11:54 AM
I said "yes", but like some, would prefer to answer "other" since my reasoning is more complicated as well.

However, I wouldn't take that reading very seriously, as there are many fakers out there who take advantage of people to give them a "reading" only to profit off you.

Take the reading with a grain of salt, or don't take it at all.

dresser
09-24-13, 12:16 PM
WOW.... I believe I am part and parcel of the Big, my location has been here for millions of yrs. why not?? what is life- living, anyway? for anything from a tree to microbe? can we answer that question? with any more certainty ???what is my reason for belonging to this forum why do I come here ????? to answer the question=WTF is "other" ??? this place is the OTHER for me, it taught me there is another way. my life is less of (can I use the word?) a living "HELL" than the life I lived before finding out I have ADD and there was an alternative, I couldn't and didnt' believe there was any other way, until diagnoses,and anyhow we'll all find out soon enough.

dvdnvwls
09-24-13, 01:12 PM
First of - thanks for responding. Although I would have preferred a bit personal support for the fact that I felt awful - but maybe that's me being unreasonable...


Well... my black 'n white mind yes unfortunately, I have an awful tendency to instinctively assume whatever people tell me is a fact... but now... after reading comments... dead means dead. Not life so no... but somewhere it scares me. I will post the reading in a second.
I believe that people here are sympathetic to you. I think the apparent lack of sympathy for just this topic was because (for me at least, probably others) I didn't really believe you had taken it seriously yourself. That was why I asked the extra question that I did - I was like "Wait a minute! Did he really take it seriously? OMG - what if he did! Maybe we've all been just brushing off something that was super-important." But when I read the words of your first post, I thought it just had to be a light-hearted non-serious thing; like "I saw a blue-and-green fairy with wings while I was walking downtown, do you think it was real?"

Sorry I didn't have the sensitivity to pick up at first how serious you were - but I just don't rate reincarnation as something worth being all that serious about.

dvdnvwls
09-24-13, 01:19 PM
At first I thought along with mctavish23, that if you don't believe that the answer is an absolute "no", then the only reasonable answer would be "yes".

But I guess if you thought "some part of us sticks around, but it merges with a collective 'something' and never comes back as a discrete being", then I could see how an answer like "Sort of..." would make sense.

BellaVita
09-24-13, 02:07 PM
No. :) 100% do not.

Rebelyell
09-24-13, 02:20 PM
Yes n no, however I do know that a spiritual realm/plane exists.

Gilthranon
09-24-13, 07:06 PM
I believe that people here are sympathetic to you. I think the apparent lack of sympathy for just this topic was because (for me at least, probably others) I didn't really believe you had taken it seriously yourself. That was why I asked the extra question that I did - I was like "Wait a minute! Did he really take it seriously? OMG - what if he did! Maybe we've all been just brushing off something that was super-important." But when I read the words of your first post, I thought it just had to be a light-hearted non-serious thing; like "I saw a blue-and-green fairy with wings while I was walking downtown, do you think it was real?"

Sorry I didn't have the sensitivity to pick up at first how serious you were - but I just don't rate reincarnation as something worth being all that serious about.
Hey mate, thanks for the support, alright I understand, yeah I 100 % don't believe in it, but I have a 'what if' mind and as I could see some logic it scared my anyway. It definitely was half light hearted, but also I mainly posted it because of how it made me feel, so I did take the thread seriously.

:)

Crazygirl79
09-24-13, 07:22 PM
I'm really not sure anymore...

I had a past life reading as well, nowhere near as horrible as Ocyan's and some of what was said was accurate especially in regards to the personality traits.

Apparently I was an Italian male in the 1300's who was the seeker of truth and higher understanding and was highly compassionate (it might explain why I'm burnt out now lol) and that's as much of it as I can remember...lol

Ok while I didn't take it all that seriously I was struck by some of what was said as it relates to parts of who I am now...

I'm not a man, I'm not Italian and I'm not living in the 1300's but the rest is absolutely true of me but that's not to say that I necessarily believe in the concept of afterlife or reincarnation but I don't rule out the existence of it either...I'm kind of on the fence with this one.

Sel x

BellaVita
09-24-13, 07:48 PM
(((((((Ocyan)))))))

Just read the reincarnation story you posted.

That's horrible.

No wonder you're posting about it.

Why not write your own? But better? Anything's better than that.

Crazygirl79
09-24-13, 10:10 PM
Ocyan!

Are you sure this person isn't just a con artist?

Sometimes these people spin sh*t just to make money too and they're not really "psychic" or anything else like that.

Sel x

Gilthranon
10-01-13, 04:08 AM
Ahh hey thnx for the compassion :D no it didn't cost me anything luckily... and if you've read my 'message from my Guardian Angel' than let's just say I'm lucky cause that was also quiet stressful... but frighteningly accurate... that one sounded like someone who knows my past but it again wasn't entirely accurate, but mostly it was.

Writing my own ? Ah, well I was a pirate, that's for sure, a big one too and my highest challenges I put myself were defying the greatest legal ships or slavery transporting ships.

One principle, no killing or torturing. The 'just' pirate :D

midnightstar
10-01-13, 06:46 AM
I voted yes because I believe that there is that option, don't believe past life readings that you are given though because they always pretend you were something like a king or a princess or some leader or other :grouphug: they never claim you were an Egyptian slave whose job was to clean the lavatory ;)

I do believe in the spirit world though but I'm not going into that because it probably comes under the no religion talk thing

Amtram
10-01-13, 10:01 AM
Hon, that was lifted right from a movie screenplay. Total fakery. Right from getting hit in the head with a rifle butt and suffering only a headache.

Regardless of what you might believe about the presence or absence of life after death, these people who do "readings" are just making stuff up.

I happen to believe that this is all there is, but even when I was hopeful about the possibility of reincarnation, I had no trust in these people who claimed to be able to do "past life regressions." It's a fiction.

FogNoggin
10-01-13, 10:58 AM
If reincarnation is not BS, your past life experiences being horrific means your soul has learned a karmic lesson and you have stepped up in your souls evolution.

Bunch of bull no doubt.

Maggots, sounds bad but they are the best at cleaning dead tissue from wounds, they would have done you a favour there.

If reincarnation is true at all, I wish to be a bird, I don't need a job and I can fly away when I feel like it, and I can **** on people I don't like.

Amtram
10-01-13, 11:06 AM
Oooh, transmigration of souls! Not every system that believes in reincarnation also ascribes to transmigration. If it were possible, though, I would come back as an otter. Over and over again. Heh.

FogNoggin
10-01-13, 11:28 AM
When I was a little boy I used to sit in class looking out the window and look at the birds, and be envious that they didn't have to sit in a classroom all day and could do what they wanted, when they wanted.

When we think we are free, we are not.

I also used to marvel at the trash tornados of chip bags and candy wrappers in the corners of the school, I was that bored.

My favourite birds were the seagulls, crows and of course the ever comical pigeon.
I wanted to soar like a seagull especially.

mattif
10-02-13, 05:06 AM
I voted No. If the option had been available, I would've voted No, no, no, no... why would you even... Oh, never mind.

Others have already perfectly expressed the strong, rational reasons for dispensing with the notion that one's consciousness/self can survive after brain death.

But while we're on the subject of "past life regressions" and all the related hokum, just ask yourself this:

Why is it that EVERY past-life description always seems to involve major human events and usually places "you" as some very important person?

Y'know, it's just never something like: You grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere; did nothing of interest to much of anyone; and died of the flu when you were nine.

Or actually, statistically speaking, most past-life stories should sound something more like this: You were a bacterium and for a few days you lived and died in the gut of a beetle. The end.

Wait, what's that you say? Reincarnation only includes humans? Yeahbut, there didn't used to be any humans, so that leaves you with a bit of a chicken/egg dilemma. And yet, if you allow for the full range of living creatures, then most stories should be about bacteria and viruses, with a fair bit of beetles thrown in, as well. There would be rather few human stories, statistically.

Also, if all of life is included in reincarnation (which involves some version of consciousness/self surviving brain death) then we are suddenly faced with a profound moral dilemma: if my Conscious Self is reborn into some new creature, then any or all living things, in their current bodies, can be assumed to have the same sort of awareness as we do now, in these bodies. As such, the taking of those lives, however tiny and insignificant they may appear, is suddenly transformed into the moral equivalent of taking the life of a human being.

Or the converse: if all creatures are reborn, reincarnated, with consciousness as we know it (and in the manner we experience it), then why would we any longer attach any significance to killing people? What? They're coming right back! You push 'em out of the house; they just walk back through the door. Big deal.

It really gets quite silly, quite quickly, once you start thinking about the necessary logical consequences of these sorts of (evidence-free) propositions.

Okay, it's sleepy time for me.
Good night and good luck.

stef
10-02-13, 05:22 AM
I thought of this also : since the population rate keeps growing - at some point, statsisically, we would "run out of souls".
(I am really not sure if that makes sense).

dvdnvwls
10-02-13, 07:48 AM
I thought of this also : since the population rate keeps growing - at some point, statsisically, we would "run out of souls".
(I am really not sure if that makes sense).
Hey, good point. But I guess there wasn't a "no new souls" requirement published anywhere.

And perhaps there have been "spare souls" floating around - like the one who sang that song "I'm a Soul, Man!"

dvdnvwls
10-02-13, 07:52 AM
if my Conscious Self is reborn into some new creature, then any or all living things, in their current bodies, can be assumed to have the same sort of awareness as we do now, in these bodies. As such, the taking of those lives, however tiny and insignificant they may appear, is suddenly transformed into the moral equivalent of taking the life of a human being.

I guess this relates directly to the difficulties reported in years past regarding building anything in Tibet; people were very careful and methodical when digging to prepare a foundation, because they wanted as far as possible to avoid killing worms etc.

Corina86
10-02-13, 08:04 AM
Jewish mystical tradition says that Adam carried within him all the souls of all the people that will ever be born, even though they might not be his children. That's the explanation for how new souls appear, as the number of humans keeps growing. I'm not sure what I believe in, though.

someothertime
10-02-13, 08:09 AM
I do not believe ones energy evaporates, yet, I do not believe a complete rebirth of ones spirit within another being occurs either.

Something in the middle. Like all of our souls "contribute" to the energy of the universe. Close to that anyway...

Fuzzy12
10-02-13, 08:13 AM
Y'know, it's just never something like: You grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere; did nothing of interest to much of anyone; and died of the flu when you were nine.

Or actually, statistically speaking, most past-life stories should sound something more like this: You were a bacterium and for a few days you lived and died in the gut of a beetle. The end.

:lol: Very true!!!

There are a lot of logical problems with reincarnation but reincarnation or not there is no evidence that killing a human is more morally wrong than killing any other living being (or doing anything else). Morality is relative to the goal you (or the society you are living in) are trying to achieve.

In fact, there is no clear cut evidence for the existence of right/wrong. I think, today's morals and moral actions have evolved because they make evolutionary sense. A society that lives by and believes in common moral constructs is more likely to thrive and survive than one that does not.

So for me, I am faced with a moral dilemma every time I come across an insect in my house. I try to avoid killing them but sometimes I can't and it makes me feel horrible. Funnily enough, not as horrible as killing a human would but I don't think that's got anything to do with fundamental concepts of right or wrong but just an acquired or learnt sense of morality.

I voted No. If the option had been available, I would've voted No, no, no, no... why would you even... Oh, never mind.

Others have already perfectly expressed the strong, rational reasons for dispensing with the notion that one's consciousness/self can survive after brain death.

But while we're on the subject of "past life regressions" and all the related hokum, just ask yourself this:

Why is it that EVERY past-life description always seems to involve major human events and usually places "you" as some very important person?

Y'know, it's just never something like: You grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere; did nothing of interest to much of anyone; and died of the flu when you were nine.

Or actually, statistically speaking, most past-life stories should sound something more like this: You were a bacterium and for a few days you lived and died in the gut of a beetle. The end.

Wait, what's that you say? Reincarnation only includes humans? Yeahbut, there didn't used to be any humans, so that leaves you with a bit of a chicken/egg dilemma. And yet, if you allow for the full range of living creatures, then most stories should be about bacteria and viruses, with a fair bit of beetles thrown in, as well. There would be rather few human stories, statistically.

Also, if all of life is included in reincarnation (which involves some version of consciousness/self surviving brain death) then we are suddenly faced with a profound moral dilemma: if my Conscious Self is reborn into some new creature, then any or all living things, in their current bodies, can be assumed to have the same sort of awareness as we do now, in these bodies. As such, the taking of those lives, however tiny and insignificant they may appear, is suddenly transformed into the moral equivalent of taking the life of a human being.

Or the converse: if all creatures are reborn, reincarnated, with consciousness as we know it (and in the manner we experience it), then why would we any longer attach any significance to killing people? What? They're coming right back! You push 'em out of the house; they just walk back through the door. Big deal.

It really gets quite silly, quite quickly, once you start thinking about the necessary logical consequences of these sorts of (evidence-free) propositions.

Okay, it's sleepy time for me.
Good night and good luck.

Amtram
10-02-13, 10:12 AM
If you're going to ascribe to the idea that all lives are equal, then you run into a real dilemma. Our very existence kills millions of other living creatures, no matter how carefully we might try to live.

Fuzzy12
10-02-13, 11:06 AM
Yes, I do think that fundamentally all lives are equal. I don't see why any type would be more valuable in absolute terms. You'd have to define the terms first to know which species are more equal than others relative to your terms or a goal.

It's not necessarily a paradox. I do know that our very existence kills millions of other living creatures. This doesn't mean that they are less worthy though in anyway. Again, whatever worthy means. I guess, my main point is that I don't believe that is any intrinsic absolute meaning to our lives, which makes all living beings equally worthless or equally worthy.


If you're going to ascribe to the idea that all lives are equal, then you run into a real dilemma. Our very existence kills millions of other living creatures, no matter how carefully we might try to live.

Gilthranon
10-05-13, 12:30 AM
Cool to see how it evolved

Great posts, many posts, and even cooler to see (to me) uncommon users put in their opinion, even more cooler to realize this thread has been treating more deeper levels with a wide variety of funny comparisons, and cool to the freezing point of my broken fridge : is to see how I know laugh at the mere idea of reincarnation, mostly thanks to mattif (please don't make me revive in the form of a virus - unless that means I can squat that lady with her fertile imagination and show her some)

:cool: