View Full Version : Dr. Phil - Friday - 11 March, ADD Dilemma


GaryandRachel
03-07-05, 06:07 PM
I know there are alot of people who hate or dis-like Dr. Phil (i know I do) but this friday his show will be on ADD. Here's a summery.:D

Friday - 11 March, ADD Dilemma
Do you just have a hard time concentrating, or could you be one of the millions of Americans with attention deficit disorder? Kat says her marriage has been on the rocks ever since she was diagnosed with ADD. How can she keep from being a family problem? Next, should a 4-year-old boy who runs his parents ragged every day be on medication or is he just acting his age? And a mom who wants answers for her daughter without giving her drugs. The author of "The ADD Answer" joins Dr. Phil to explore alternative treatments.

Imnapl
03-07-05, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the warning, G&R.

northstar
03-07-05, 10:14 PM
Thanks For The Info! I'll Be Watching.

2 Weeks Ago I Totally Lost Respect For Dr. Phil. The Show Was About Disorganized People, People Who Can't Finish Projects, And A Clumsy Woman Who Constantly Hurts Herself. So, The Disorganized Lady Sounded Like A Classic Case Of Add To Me, She Had All Of The Symptoms And Not Only That Her Son Was Just Diagnosed With Add And She Told Dr. Phil She Thinks She Has It Too. He Said No Way! He Told Her If She Can Get Her House Clean For Company She Couldn't Turn Her Add Off Momentarily To Get Her House Clean. Thats A B.s. I Know If I Have Company Coming I Can Go Full Steam Ahead And Clean The House Only Because I Can Thrive On The Pressure To Get It Done, I May Throw Everything In One Room And Shut The Door, But It The Rest Of The House Looks Clean. I Just Felt So Bad For That Lady I Wanted To Cry. He Blamed All Of Her Disorganization And Frusturations On Her. Thats The Last Thing An Adder Needs. I Thought That Was So Unproffesional Of Him To Tell Her Those Things. As For The Other Guests It Was The Same Thing. To Me It Sounded Like They All Had Symptoms Of Add And It Had Been Going On Their Whole Lives And All Dr. Phil Could Say Was It Was Their Own Fault. Gee, If We Could All Just Be Perfect Like Dr. Phil!!!!!

Thanks For The Vent!!!

exeter
03-07-05, 10:27 PM
Anybody wanna guess who the author of "The ADD Answer" is? Dr. Frank Lawlis. This guy so anti-medication, it makes me wonder if someone he knows had a bad experience with ADD meds.

Gregster
03-08-05, 02:33 AM
I get angry just thinking about how the show is going to go, although I'd also argue against medicating a 4 year old depending on how dangerous she was.....
But the best way to "get even" with Dr Phil is to not watch his show - "vote with your feet" as they say in business - he lives for controversy, it draws viewers and that means ratings and advertising money......and a rich Dr Phil. Start a grass roots movement to ignore the putz! "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about" - I believe Mr Wilde got that right.

GaryandRachel
03-08-05, 09:20 AM
But I still watch Dr. Phil because my in-laws (rachels parents) don't think I have AD/HD even though I've been DX twice now. Go figure, but I will watch cause I know they will use what that moron said to try and prove I don't have it. Like on the last Dr. phil show about ADD where he said it is something you can turn off or on and the lady didn't clean her house. (i like my house clean). And they said I can pay full attention to the TV when something good is on, so I can't have AD/HD. LOL.:D

wendybonsey
03-08-05, 09:39 AM
do you know if the show is gonna be shown in the uk on sky at the same time or do we have to wait months like we usually do.lol

Mee
03-08-05, 11:02 AM
Start a grass roots movement to ignore the putz! But the best way to "get even" with Dr Phil is to not watch his show


Gregster it is hard to believe that a moderator of an ADD Fourm that is here to give the public ideas on how we can make it's community better would be telling people to not watch a show on the subject . I think it is important to keep an open mind about a show that very well may have some good information for people on this forum .


There is a move in this country that has many people concerned about overmedicating of children .... is that so wrong . Parent want all the information they can when it comes to this subject . Dr. Phil's view on medication for ADD is If it's working for you and your children against a backdrop of responsible parenting, then good for you and you shouldn't substitute my judgment or anyone else's for your own. What Dr. Phil and Dr. Lawlis both have a problem with is not medication but the overmedicating our children and the medication being used as a substitute for being responsible parents .

The show will go into many things that may be helpful for a parent with a child who has ADD like ... obtaining a proper diagnosis ... examining your parenting style ...... disciplining your child .... and yes educating yourself about ADD and knowing all the facts before giving your child medication to treat ADD.
I don't think it is responsible of you as a moderator to try and start a grass roots movement to ignore a show on ADD when people need all the information they can get especially when their kids are involved .

FightingBoredom
03-08-05, 01:48 PM
But I still watch Dr. Phil because my in-laws (rachels parents) don't think I have AD/HD even though I've been DX twice now. Go figure, but I will watch cause I know they will use what that moron said to try and prove I don't have it. Like on the last Dr. phil show about ADD where he said it is something you can turn off or on and the lady didn't clean her house. (i like my house clean). And they said I can pay full attention to the TV when something good is on, so I can't have AD/HD. LOL.:D

Garry, maybe I missed this in one of your other posts...but, can you tell me the reason you'd give two cents for what your in-laws think? :confused:

FightingBoredom
03-08-05, 01:58 PM
Gregster it is hard to believe that a moderator of an ADD Fourm that is here to give the public ideas on how we can make it's community better would be telling people to not watch a show on the subject . I think it is important to keep an open mind about a show that very well may have some good information for people on this forum .


Mee, I don't see where it matters that Gregster is a moderator of the forum or not. He's allowed an opinion just like everyone else.
In fact, voicing his opinion, IMO, WAS giving the public an idea on how to make the community better. By filtering out some of the horsehockey that is out there.
I think we're a little too ready to accept what we hear on television as a good source of information. Like there is some moral or ethical police force in place to make sure that talk shows and commercials don't lie to us.
Just becuase it is a source of information doesn't mean there is value in watching it. It seems to me that Gregster is doing you a favor by letting you know that you will likely be let down by this show. It's a book selling promotion at best for the "ADD Answer" at best.

I'm backing Gregster's boycott of the Dr. Phil show on ADD.

Mee
03-08-05, 02:47 PM
Isn't this a forum that is and should be open to all kinds of treatments and suggestions for help with ADD . I would think a place like this would encourage people to gather all the information that one could get on ADD and solution on overcoming it whether it be medicine or alternative options and keep an open mind while gathering that information . Not in telling people what to watch and not watch .

GaryandRachel
03-09-05, 10:26 AM
I don't really care what they think. I just think that it is funny when my In-Laws try to tell I don't have AD/HD because of something they watched. Its just funny every time a show is on about ADD they have a pen and paper ready to write stuff down. I print up alot of stuff for them to read too. But really I don't care I'm use to it and I laugh about it.

And to the other comm.....
I don't think we should boycott Dr Phil even though I don't like his opinions on other stuff, but I think it would be a good learning experience to watch his show. If you only listen to ppl that have the same opinion I think you learn less then listening to both sides. I don't agree with Dr Phil all the time, but I have learned stuff from his show. You don't have to agree with him to learn something. I lost alot of respect for him in a recent episode with a teen boy that was a sexual preditor, I don't agree that there has to be a victom before he is going to learn his lession. There is alot that I don't agree with, but I agree that you can learn alot by watching his show. (and this is coming from a person who I wouldn't say hate but dis-like) I think some problems like that boy should not be on-air because that is only going to make things for him worse. Also there is an update on him Wednsday.

Gregster
03-10-05, 07:37 PM
My point regarding a "boycott" of Dr Phil has nothing to do with preventing people from educating themselves, it has to do with my negative opinion of Dr Phil. Previous shows that involved ADHD were not well received by the people here who saw it and what I've heard and seen indicates to me that Dr Phil is not much of an expert on ADHD.
Dr Phil is first and foremost and entertainer - he doesn't make his $$$ by billing for psychotherapy, he makes his money by getting good ratings and shilling his books. His ADHD expert isn't much different - the Dr Phil show is part of a book tour - I'd be curious to see how many times the title of the book is mentioned on the show tommorow!
There is no way to "punish" Dr Phil if we don't agree with him - if you don't like a product a company makes, you can write a letter to complain, demand your money back, etc. But for Dr Phil, even a complaint is a good thing - it indicates that people are watching, and that they are interested enough to write a letter, but the most important thing is the viewership.
Love him or hate him, if you are watching Dr Phil's show, you are making him money - controversial issues like ADHD are great, since you'll get viewers that agree and just as many - or more - who disagree and the advertisers don't know or care what people are thinking or feeling as they watch, only that they see the advertising.
My point was that the only way that you can express a negative opinion of Dr Phil in a way that doesn't benefit him directly or indirectly is by ignoring him - don't watch the show, don't buy the book, treat him like every other shmo who's opinion you care nothing about. To do anything else - writing letters, e-mails, etc. - just proves to advertisers that people are watching.

FightingBoredom
03-10-05, 10:31 PM
Gregster, VERY WELL PUT!

FunkyMonkeyLee
03-10-05, 10:53 PM
i though maybe i could learn something from Dr. Frank Lawlis ( not knowing what he believes), not Dr Phil. I agree in away with not watching i only post cause i wanted to spread the word incase someone watches him. I really don't watch Dr Phil and I really don't know where he stands about ADD. Sorry about that. No hard feeling to anyone. I say if yiu wanna boycott "BOYCOTT :)" I would probably would too if I knew where he stood on ADD. :) :) :)

FunkyMonkeyLee
03-10-05, 10:54 PM
wrong username, I'm gary from garyandrachel :)

bnsforu2
03-10-05, 11:21 PM
what time is phil on tv fri march 11?

pm or am?





P
should i tape it or not? :)

addwife2001
03-11-05, 12:14 AM
Dr Phil does not know what he is talking about. This is a repeat of a show that aired in the fall. All it is, is a ploy to sell a book.

lilthingsADDup
03-11-05, 11:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it is NOT a repeat. I saw the show I think you're talking about. The show he showed last fall was about boys with ADD. This one is going to have girls and women on the show.

Mee
03-11-05, 11:58 AM
ADD Dilemma
Do you just have a hard time concentrating, or could you be one of the millions of Americans with attention deficit disorder? Kat says her marriage has been on the rocks ever since she was diagnosed with ADD. How can she keep from being a family problem? Next, should a 4-year-old boy who runs his parents ragged every day be on medication or is he just acting his age? And a mom who wants answers for her daughter without giving her drugs. The author of "The ADD Answer" joins Dr. Phil to explore alternative treatments.



This is a new show and should have lots of information about ADD and treatment .

Gregster
03-11-05, 07:07 PM
So, how bad or good was the show? I forgot to tape it - just as well.

Imnapl
03-11-05, 11:21 PM
Gregster,
I only watched the last half of the show. Dr. Frank Lawlis agreed that ADHD is over-diagnosed in people that don't have it, and under-diagnosed in people that do have ADHD.
L.

bnsforu2
03-11-05, 11:29 PM
Gregster,
I only watched the last half of the show. Dr. Frank Lawlis agreed that ADHD is over-diagnosed in people that don't have it, and under-diagnosed in people that do have ADHD.
L.

what else happened onthe show????

I missed it.



anything worth noting???




P

Imnapl
03-11-05, 11:56 PM
anything worth noting???
Not in the last half hour; pretty traditional information about parenting issues. The opening statement of a young mother told us that she refused to medicate her daughter. Dr. Phil countered with the need for medication for neurological deficits. Mom seems to have changed her mind during the taping of the show.
L.

Gregster
03-12-05, 05:32 PM
"Overdiagnosed in those that don't have it and underdiagnosed in those that do have it"??? Did Dr Lawless have any solution to that dilemma? And what does that mean - that people without ADHD are complaining about it to doctors and getting diagnosed and those with it aren't seeking help?
Still, I doesn't sound like it was too bad, all things considered.

Mee
03-12-05, 06:42 PM
"Overdiagnosed in those that don't have it and underdiagnosed in those that do have it"??? Did Dr Lawless have any solution to that dilemma?

He offered many and suggested SPECT Imaging to help determine if one of the parents child had ADHD and even offered to send them to Dallas to his facility where he would do it for free . It was a good show they spent the whole hour on ADD with 3 different families . Gregster I do not know why you would encourage people on this forum who come here to learn about ADD to avoid a show like this . transcripts and tapes are available here if you want to see or read what you missed .
http://tapesandtranscripts.drphil.com/product.asp?ProductID=440918

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 07:29 PM
He offered many and suggested SPECT Imaging to help determine if one of the parents child had ADHD and even offered to send them to Dallas to his facility where he would do it for free . It was a good show they spent the whole hour on ADD with 3 different families . Gregster I do not know why you would encourage people on this forum who come here to learn about ADD to avoid a show like this . transcripts and tapes are available here if you want to see or read what you missed .
http://tapesandtranscripts.drphil.com/product.asp?ProductID=440918
Mee, those transcripts and tapes cost money.

Save me some bucks since I don't especially want to contribute to this commercial enterprise and just tell me how he uses SPECT to diagnose ADD and whether or not he has "categories" similar to Dr. Amen's.

Also, just out of curiosity: Are moderators not allowed to have opinions?

Regards,
Coral

Andrew
03-12-05, 08:14 PM
Also, just out of curiosity: Are moderators not allowed to have opinions?

Not sure what you mean, but I, and other staff members here have often voiced our opinion on a variety of subjects. Not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, however.

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 08:18 PM
Not sure what you mean, but I, and other staff members here have often voiced our opinion on a variety of subjects. Not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, however.
It is reassuring to know that. The first sentence of post #8 in this thread prompted my inquiry.

Mee
03-12-05, 08:19 PM
You can download the transcript for $6 ..... but there is a summary here http://www.drphil.com/show/show.jhtml?contentId=3102_add.xml

And a discussion going on that you can reply to here http://boards.drphil.com/WebX?14@@.f07f857
There are already about 40 comments ( some very interesting) in this section and it is growing . These two sections are boyh free .

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 08:42 PM
You can download the transcript for $6 ..... but there is a summary here http://www.drphil.com/show/show.jhtml?contentId=3102_add.xml

And a discussion going on that you can reply to here http://boards.drphil.com/WebX?14@@.f07f857
There are already about 40 comments ( some very interesting) in this section and it is growing . These two sections are boyh free .
Mee, I went there and read a summary about a little girl named Savannah and this is what Dr. Lawlis told her mother: "if it is determined that ADD is active then medication may be appropriate."

But I am puzzled. What does he mean by "active?" Is he saying ADD can be dormant or is he just saying that she may or may not have ADD?

Sadly, I saw no summary info on SPECT.

Regards,
Coral

GaryandRachel
03-12-05, 09:37 PM
Rachel said it was a good show but alot of unanswered question from Dr Phil.

latesha
03-12-05, 09:47 PM
After watching the Dr. Phil show on Friday, I must say, I was rather impressed. I do not find that either Dr. Phil or Dr. Lawlis are totally against medication, what I find is that they are BOTH adament about the use of the medication to treat children/ adults who do NOT actually have the neurological condition. They promote testing, they promote behavioral modification, they promote award systems, they promote praise, and yes they did promote a book, but have you ever watched a television show that promoted nothing?

Of course not, that is what TV is all about. It is all a matter of selling products, selling ideas, selling marketing. Needless to say, the show was very worthy or time (and money) spent watching it.

I have found that the majority of peopel who do not like Dr. Phil do not like him because of his blunt honesty. Now, I am not always saying that I agree with everything that he has to say, because I do not. But shouldn't we at least consider it? Those people who go on that show go there for help...they go there for the fact that he is blunt and honest, and he can help them, and he is and does just that.

I read in this thread that Dr. Phil doesnt make his money from Psychotherapy he makes it from his show, and book promo's. Well, that very well may be the case right now, but I am positive there was a time when he himself was a struggling college student, a struggling intern etc. Not everyone starts aut at the top. He has made it a long way, and I give him credit for the work that he does with families who need help. And the help does not end after the show. He stays up to date with them, does follow up shows and interviews to make sure that they are on the right path. And no that doesnt mean HIS PATH. It means the path that fits their lifestyles.

Also, being able to turn your ADD on and off. That doesnt mean that you can clean for company and not clean any other time. In this show in particular, the parents were giving in to a childs irrational behavior. And once they said...ok, I give up, do what you want. The child miraculiously became a saint. THAT is what they were reffering too. They were trying to distinguish between a real diagnosis or a misdiagnosis. And if you notice...the school assessed him, not a doctor. It is all in how you look at it. And all in how you preceive what he says. I guess I am just trying to say that just because it is not what we want to hear, doesnt mean it is not true, factual, or remotely possible.

Mary
03-12-05, 10:02 PM
Latesha,

Even though I missed the show yesterday, I've heard good and bad. Thank you for sharing your honest opinion with the rest of us. What the rest of us need to realize that just because one method doesn't work for some of us... doesn't mean it's not the right method for others and obviously Dr Phil is trying his utmost to make us aware of all possibilities. Thank you, again!

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 10:03 PM
I have found that the majority of peopel who do not like Dr. Phil do not like him because of his blunt honesty.
I have never seen him because I do not watch TV. I am curious. Is he blunt or is he rude? I believe there can be a rather fine line between the two. I hope he is nothing like that dreadful Dr. Laura who is always so rude to people. :eek:

Also, being able to turn your ADD on and off. That doesnt mean that you can clean for company and not clean any other time. I am not sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate?

It seems to me that using several strategies to treat ADD is good, but I found it difficult to apply strategies to myself until I started taking Adderall. Now I am making slow but steady progress.

Could you see my post # 31 in this thread and tell me what Dr. Lawlis means by "active ADD?"

latesha
03-12-05, 10:34 PM
Coral,
I have never really found what Dr. Phil has to say to people to be "rude". He is blunt, but he is honest. And sometimes, I believe that is what we need. We need someone to tell us forthright what it is that we are doing/saying/behaving etc. We need to be honestly critiqued. At least that is how I feel. If I upset someone or hurt their feelings, I would rather them come to me and tell me what it was that I did to hurt them.

In referance to Also, being able to turn your ADD on and off. That doesnt mean that you can clean for company and not clean any other time.
That was actually in response to someone saying earlier on in this thread that there is no such thing as being able to turn it on or off. They mentioned that they could turn on the ablitly to clean if they knew that they had company coming. But any other time, it was an unsurrmountable disaster. (If I misunderstood or am not paraphrazing correctly, I appologize). I just wanted to make it clear that I did not perceive it to be the case in this show. They were referring to a child for starters. And they were referring to a child who could turn it on and off. They said that in their experience that was not true ADHD. And well, I find that to be true.
The focus should be on the fact that people need to be tested...and I mean TESTED for this disorder. I don't mean, tell your doctor that you forget things and such, and have them give you medicine. You need to have an EEG to test the brain waves, see a NEUROPSYCHITRIST in order to have an accurate diagnosis. This child did not have those things. The school "assessed" him, and said he had it and Aspergers. (Sorry I am rambling).

I have not read Dr. Lawlis' book yet. But I would think that in reference to Active ADD, that he would be referring to an actual diagnosis by a professional. And not something done by a school, or a familydoctor/ general practitioner. I don't think that it would encompass the ability for ADD to lay dormant. That is a good question, if there is anyone who has read Dr. Lawlis' book, I also would like some validity to that. I maybe have to just go pick the book up at the store eventually.

Imnapl
03-12-05, 10:47 PM
Mee, I went there and read a summary about a little girl named Savannah and this is what Dr. Lawlis told her mother: "if it is determined that ADD is active then medication may be appropriate." Coral: I saw that part of the show and remember Dr. Phil making this comment.

This quotation is from the online summary:

Dr. Phil elaborates. "Children perceive that they're not fitting in right. They know this isn't going well, and so they start getting tension and anxiety that can exacerbate the problem, whether or not it's neurological," he explains. He addresses Dawn: "We need to help you get this diagnosis done in a very clear and concise way, so you know what to do. And if it is determined that ADD is active, then medication may be appropriate, but then you have to do all the other things that we've been talking about the entire show as well."

But I am puzzled. What does he mean by "active?" Is he saying ADD can be dormant or is he just saying that she may or may not have ADD? The only explanation I can give for the "active" comment is that it is a "live", taped, talk show and the word "active" may have been a verbal miscue. :confused:
L.

Mee
03-12-05, 11:10 PM
actual diagnosis by a professional. And not something done by a school, or a familydoctor/ general practitioner.

if it is determined that ADD is active, then medication may be appropriate, but then you have to do all the other things that we've been talking about the entire show as well."


These are two things that they pointed out in this show that I think were right on track were ... Getting the right diagnosis and really seeing a Dr. who specializes in ADD and then having detailed test done so that the diagnosis can be confirmed .

Then after a confirmed diagnosis do not just use medication ... they stressed using a combination of behavioral modification and medication and not just medication alone .

Both of these things I believe are grosly overlooked by many who have just gone to their Dr and said give me some pills for this condition I think I have .

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 11:40 PM
Coral,
I have never really found what Dr. Phil has to say to people to be "rude". He is blunt, but he is honest. And sometimes, I believe that is what we need. We need someone to tell us forthright what it is that we are doing/saying/behaving etc. We need to be honestly critiqued. At least that is how I feel. If I upset someone or hurt their feelings, I would rather them come to me and tell me what it was that I did to hurt them.

Well I believed that we should be honestly critiqued if we request a critique, and I suppose people on his show are at least implicitly requesting critique but I think the best folks find ways to be tactful but honest. Having watched a bit of TV in the past, I must say that one of the reasons I stopped watching "talk shows" was because I saw too many people willing to pay too high a price in dignity for their 15 minutes of fame. I don't think they always knew how exposed they would be. The eye of the camera is relentless.


In referance to Also, being able to turn your ADD on and off. That doesnt mean that you can clean for company and not clean any other time.
That was actually in response to someone saying earlier on in this thread that there is no such thing as being able to turn it on or off. They mentioned that they could turn on the ablitly to clean if they knew that they had company coming. But any other time, it was an unsurrmountable disaster. (If I misunderstood or am not paraphrazing correctly, I appologize). I just wanted to make it clear that I did not perceive it to be the case in this show. They were referring to a child for starters. And they were referring to a child who could turn it on and off. They said that in their experience that was not true ADHD. And well, I find that to be true.

I beg to differ. The reason people might perceive that ADD can be turned on and off is that the ADDer usually goes towards the stimulus. Cleaning house on a day to day basis with a schedule is boring. Cleaning house when you are expecting company is a little like being about to be hanged. It focuses the mind wonderfully. I think people who do not have ADD underestimate the boredom factor for ADDers. I honestly think it is much more painful for ADDer to be bored than other folks. Because it is almost impossible for ADDers(nonmedicated) to focus his/her mind on a boring (to them) task. It is not merely a matter of self-discipline. From my reading, I have gleaned that one of the hallmarks of ADD is that a concerted effort does not improve focus but diminishes it.


The focus should be on the fact that people need to be tested...and I mean TESTED for this disorder. I don't mean, tell your doctor that you forget things and such, and have them give you medicine. You need to have an EEG to test the brain waves, see a NEUROPSYCHITRIST in order to have an accurate diagnosis. This child did not have those things. The school "assessed" him, and said he had it and Aspergers. (Sorry I am rambling).

I think experienced and well-trained teachers may be more likely to spot ADD, but we cannot discount the fact that teachers, often with too large a class to begin with, may have every reason to want ADDers medicated. It makes the teacher's life easier.

I agree that proper diagnosis is important, but I do not think that SPECT scans have yet be accepted by the medical community as the diagnostic tool. I think experienced psychologists and psychiatrists, can make a diagnosis using the tool they have used most often -- self reports by patients. We do not use a scan to diagnose Bipolar Disorder. We do not use a scan to diagnose Asperger's either. :) We have to accept that most insurers will not pay for these new fangled/pioneering (choose your own adjective) tests.

That said, I have two of Dr. Amen's books and think he is doing important work in establishing the variability of ADD behavior. As an Inattentive, I know my behaviors can be very different from a Hyperactive. I can tell that by reading this forum. I do not believe there is one type of ADD/ADHD. In fact, I believe there are several (classifications) which have been placed under that umbrella.


I have not read Dr. Lawlis' book yet. But I would think that in reference to Active ADD, that he would be referring to an actual diagnosis by a professional. And not something done by a school, or a familydoctor/ general practitioner. I don't think that it would encompass the ability for ADD to lay dormant. That is a good question, if there is anyone who has read Dr. Lawlis' book, I also would like some validity to that. I maybe have to just go pick the book up at the store eventually.

Again, we are necessarily dealing with behavior. For instance, I think Minimal Brain Damage may be mistaken for ADD. I also suspect that stimulant drugs would help both.

It is very important that we all keep questioning, keep demanding the best medical care, keep supporting each other and stretching to educate ourselves. I don't think we can afford to leave any possibility out of the equation at this point.

Coral Rhedd
03-12-05, 11:46 PM
These are two things that they pointed out in this show that I think were right on track were ... Getting the right diagnosis and really seeing a Dr. who specializes in ADD and then having detailed test done so that the diagnosis can be confirmed .

Then after a confirmed diagnosis do not just use medication ... they stressed using a combination of behavioral modification and medication and not just medication alone .

Both of these things I believe are grosly overlooked by many who have just gone to their Dr and said give me some pills for this condition I think I have .
I wonder how many of us would love to be able to hire a coach or a behavior modification specialist. Also one of those specialists in organization would be nice to help with our work, school, and living spaces. :rolleyes: I hope everyone reading this thread will write his/her congressman and demand that these things be made available free of charge to every ADD/ADHD adult and child in the U.S.

I am curious about what governments in other nations are willing to provide for the proper treatment of ADD?

Comments?

RhapsodyInBlue
03-13-05, 08:54 AM
I beg to differ. The reason people might perceive that ADD can be turned on and off is that the ADDer usually goes towards the stimulus. Cleaning house on a day to day basis with a schedule is boring. Cleaning house when you are expecting company is a little like being about to be hanged. It focuses the mind wonderfully. I think people who do not have ADD underestimate the boredom factor for ADDers. I honestly think it is much more painful for ADDer to be bored than other folks. Because it is almost impossible for ADDers(nonmedicated) to focus his/her mind on a boring (to them) task. It is not merely a matter of self-discipline. From my reading, I have gleaned that one of the hallmarks of ADD is that a concerted effort does not improve focus but diminishes it.
Coral, this is where I have a great deal of difficulty understanding, and I mean "difficulty" as in completely baffled.

I have complained to many Non ADD'ers about the boring tasks, and they all feel the same. None of them feel motivated to wash, iron, clean. They are bored too. Where is this different? If we have or know so many Non ADD'ers who find repetetive tasks boring, where do we draw the line?

The word bored, as you would know, simply means "uninterested". I wonder, if put to a test, how many Non Adder's would say they found cleaning the bathroom/kitchen/house really interesting?

I'm not going from reading. I am going from asking Non Adder's and seeing ADD'ers capable of doing these things and hate it all the way. But does this make it totally impossible?

When you say "painful", can you define in which terms you mean that. This is one of my hardest areas....not to procrastinate, but I just refuse to give in. I wouldn't find the word "painful" appropriate to me, but more like pushing cement up a hill. Extremely hard, but I still do everything I have to.

So, this is where I get lost and all the wheels fall off. Sometimes lately I think maybe I should try the meds if only to see how much easier my life would be, but I am worried about that "for myself only".

I can see where you are coming from, but would love for you to expand on this from your own opinion. I greatly enjoy your posts, and many make me think, so your input would interest me. :)

~Viktoria

bnsforu2
03-13-05, 11:04 AM
thanks for the feedback, since i could watch the show.

i tried adding the chat for wed 830pm for 1 hour to the calendar, but the dates are all messed up i think.

i clicked wed, the 16th of marcch and it STILL says thurs? why??


P

tnbsmommy
03-13-05, 11:27 AM
I just want to say I have never, did not and do not watch Dr. Phil. I couldn't tell you much about him, I am never home when he is on, and honestly have no interest in watching him. My sister does, however, lol... I have a 10 year old ADD son. She has three children, none of whom have ever been diagnosed with ADD... She watched this episode, and was impressed with Dr. Lawlis, and suggested I look at his book. I went to the bookstore yesterday, and after skimming through it, bought it.

I currently have my son on medication, not by choice. My reasoning for that is, when ADD was first brought up in our situation, it was after we were sent to a psychologist b/c of possible depression in my son by the school councelor. The psychologist assured me they use medication as a last resort and tried behavoir modification techniques first. He said he didn't think my son had depression, but rather a mild form of ADD(concentration/focusing issues) and referred me to a psychiatrist. This man spent ten minutes with me, and five,(yes FIVE) minutes with my son, by the end of the five minutes, he had a prescription for ritalin written out. When I asked him about behavoir modification, he quickly shot that down and said putting my son on ritalin was the best answer. I was NOT happy with that. Nor was my son's father.

Fast forward a year, the teacher recommended I take him to a pediatrician to see if he did have ADD(keep in mind, at this point the child was a straight A student) She explained to me that it was a medical condition, and just like if he had been diagnosed with Diabetes and had to take insulin to treat it, there were medications to treat ADD. So I did, b/c that analagy made sense. Ever since he has been on and off Ritalin, Medidate, and most currently, Concerta. I, personally, would like to find alternatives, HEALTHY alternatives to a lifetime of medication. In skimming the book(I am in the process of reading through it carefully) I have found several different options other than medicine to help my son.

He HATES HATES HATES taking his medicine. It is a struggle every single morning. It has been a struggle every morning for the last year and a half(while he is in school, and not counting the short time he was off his meds for various reasons). I can't continue to go through this until the day he is bigger than me and puts his foot down. It has not mattered one bit what I say, what the teachers say, what his dr. says... he begs and cries every morning about taking the medicine, he doesn't like how it makes him feel. If, IF, one single technique in this book can help, then the book is worth the read, worth the $25. I came to the conclusion that there has to be another way, even if means revamping our entire lifestyle, if it helps him excell in school, and helps him feel better about himself, then it is worth it.

If there is a way to get through this, and help him without subjecting him to the meds every day, then I am going to find it, if there isn't, and if none of the techniques in the book, or any other book, work, and if I find that medication is, in fact, the only answer, then I feel like the money is still well spent, b/c at least I tried, at least I explored EVERY option, at least I gave it OUR best.

I know this post doesn't really have much to do with the beginnings of this thread, I just thought I would put my feelings on the whole dr. lawlis/book issue out there.

chain
03-13-05, 12:44 PM
Gregster,
I only watched the last half of the show. Dr. Frank Lawlis agreed that ADHD is over-diagnosed in people that don't have it, and under-diagnosed in people that do have ADHD.
L.
I would agree with this statement. My "checklist" picks out lots of people who "have it" and occasionally points out those who have been dianosed but do not have it.

So...

Over diagnosed in white males who magically outgrow the "ADD" (You do not outgrow it)

Under diagnosed in pretty much everyone else.

The person that matches ADD patterns even better than I do is an African American woman I work with. She is amazing... in fact I actually think it is good that some people are not diagnosed (although she may be hiding issues).

She is really cool. I have a complete crush on her, lol !

I also have a Chinese American woman friend that fits it. When I talk about linear, she understands exactly what I mean (a sign of ADD cognition) Ok, I have a crush on her too :)

I also know a Japanese American man with it. He is great in team meetings... When they ask him what is going on in his (work life) he talks about all of his current women problems and he wanders into people's cubes just to let farts.

I also know an undx'd multi-millionare with it. He happens to be Jewish and was a person who planted many of the positive seeds in my mind that have made me who I am. He would never be diagnosed.. he is way too successful!


They are all undiagnosed. When I explain what ADD "is" to them... they are amazed. It fits them all. When they talked to their doctors about it, they are met with disbelief. Doctors are often external referent and linear... THey base their view of ADD on hidden racist and sexist ideas.. i.e. It is a white person's disease with mostly boys being affected.

So.. yeah undx'd in many and overdx'd in many. It is good Dr. Phil felt the heat for his mistreatment of ADDers (I am sure some of whom cut his paychecks) and responded with a better show. We are everywhere... With our bizzare humor, racing minds and lack of fashion sense!

Mee
03-13-05, 01:28 PM
This man spent ten minutes with me, and five,(yes FIVE) minutes with my son, by the end of the five minutes, he had a prescription for ritalin written out. When I asked him about behavoir modification, he quickly shot that down and said putting my son on ritalin was the best answer. I was NOT happy with that. Nor was my son's father.
The quick fix ..... I can remember being forced to take Ritalin like your son as a child I hated the way it made me feel when it wore off but the Dr told my my mom to make me take it . I believe for the teachers and the Dr.'s it was the quick fix ... by that I mean it was the easiest way for them to help me it required no effort . The teacher was overworked and had too many kids in the class and my parents did not have any time to help with things like homework or getting involved in my life ., and the Dr really did not have any tools other than his prescription pad . My heart goes out to the kids who are diagnosed with ADD like I was in that quick trip to the Dr and then put on Ritalin , it was a painful childhood memory . When you are put through this hell at such an early age I feel you are a prime candidate for drug abuse later . I remember after being on Ritalin for so many years just feeling sick most of the day when someone showed me pot it was like a life saver . For the first time I had something that took away the sick and jittery feeling that living with Ritalin gave me . With that I was off and running .Ritalin was my gateway to drug abuse .

All I can say to a parent who is in the position of the Dr and teachers telling them to make their kids take an amphetamine everyday before school is do your homework see many Dr.'s and really keep a close eye on your kids . It would be interesting if we could fast forward about 50 years .. I have a feeling that we will look back on when we gave little kids drugs like Ritalin and Adderall every day as a rather barbaric medical technique . There must be a better way . I know that medication may help many kids at least that is what I am told . I just remember that whole period in my life as you describe your child not wanting to take his pills in the morning and hope for kids in the future there is a better way .
tnbsmommy it is a good thing you are doing getting all the facts and working on other things that may help him .

Mee
03-13-05, 01:49 PM
Is there anyone here who was given medication as a kid ... I think it would be helpful if others could give there experences here .

tnbsmommy
03-13-05, 03:11 PM
Thank you,Mee, I am trying, lol... I am not saying that there aren't cases where medications are necessary... I just truly think ALL other options, from changes in diet, to ruling out allergies, depression(andyes, my son had a VERY good reasons that would bring on depression in the best of us, but the Dr.s didn't want to hear them) to other disorders, to changes in day to day schedules, etc, BEFORE writing out the allmighty prescription...

Also, my ex was on ritalin as a child(he's 30 now) and it was that experience that made him so against medicating our son...his family and him all say it was a horrible experience and he was nothing but a zombie while he was on it....

He is now a druguser who puts his couple bags of weed before paying the bills, and for a while(actually the reason we split up) was smoking crack...

Mee
03-13-05, 04:04 PM
ADHD and Exercise in the Child, Teen and Adult

Exercise has a profound affect on ADHD and the child, teen or adult. In addition to promoting health, a regular exercise program can modifying behavior in the ADHD child and may even promote brain growth.

Aerobic exercise increases levels of the neurotransmitters dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. These neurotransmitters provide emotional stability, the ability to focus, mental alertness and calmness. Conversely, a deficiency in neurotransmitters can cause depression, mood swings, irritability, anxiety, attention problems, stress and sleep problems.

Exercise also releases endorphins, the opiate-classified messengers of our emotional system that elevate mood, increase pleasure and minimize pain.

The degree of chemical change is dependent on the intensity, duration and frequency of the aerobic activity.

Current fitness and exercise research makes a correlation between an active lifestyle and positive changes in brain chemistry, brain growth and development. Studies also show that exercise has a positive affect on curbing negative behaviors common in the ADHD child.

A 2001 State University of New York, Buffalo study showed the positive benefits of exercise on ADHD children. The study group - ADHD children between the ages of 5 and 12 - participated in 40 minutes of intense exercise five days per week.

Children involved in this study showed a significant improvement in behavior over the six-week duration of the study. Behavior changes were generally noticeable two to four weeks after beginning the exercise program and children with oppositional behaviors made the greatest improvements with exercise.

This study makes good common sense; give hyperactive an outlet for their excess energy and they will have less to cause trouble with.

National statistics show that todays children are increasingly less active than children 10 years ago. Not so coincidentally, psychosomatic disorders and ADHD prescriptions have skyrocketed over the same time frame.

If you have an ADHD child or teen or if you are an adult with ADHD, the kindest most healthy treatment plan is one that focuses on routine intense aerobic exercise, and one that includes a nutritious diet and an attentional supplement program to fill any gaps.

The child, teen or adult with ADHD needs to incorporate at least 30 minutes of activity to each day. At least 20 minutes of this exercise needs to be at a moderate to intense level.
It is important for an adult to make the exercise effort a family affair. An adult displaying a positive attitude and a shared interest in exercise supports and encourages the child or teen to follow suit. This may be the time to start addressing those extra pounds that have made way to the body over the years.

I think exersise is one of the most overlooked activites in kids lives and may be one of the most benificial treatments for kids with ADD . The other is diet .... I am not saying these things are a subsitute for medication , but in some cases I think the right diet and exersise program for some kids would reduce their need for medication .

Imnapl
03-13-05, 04:10 PM
Mee, thanks for reminding us. ADHD or not, it is common sense. Everyone needs to take care of their physical and mental health with proper nutrition, hydration, sleep and exercise.

You have reminded me of a story told to me by a competitive ice hockey parent. Her son's physical stamina was deteriorating and the regular medical doctors could find no cause. A naturopath asked the boy to collect and measure his urine output and they discovered he was chronically dehydrated. Regular rehydration solved the stamina problem.

Coral Rhedd
03-13-05, 04:16 PM
Also, my ex was on ritalin as a child(he's 30 now) and it was that experience that made him so against medicating our son...his family and him all say it was a horrible experience and he was nothing but a zombie while he was on it....

That is overmedication. Stims should not be used to control children. This is where I think things most go wrong. But we all know parents, teachers, doctors, etc. who just don't want to put the time in.

As a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate for children), I have seen this over medication. I have seen a child who was zombie-like. This was a poor child in the custody of the state and his foster parent was demanding medication. This guy was obviously only in foster care for the money. :mad: And the doctor was not properly able to do medication management because he was going by the foster care father's description of the child's behavior.

On the other hand, the boy's sister did great on Ritalin. It was like a miracle for her. She was a happier more socially adept child and her math skills really improved.

I don't think the problem is with the medication. I think the problem is with the adults who have unrealistic ideas of how an elementary school child should behave in an overstimulating atomesphere with 25 other children. In the U.S. we are cheating our kids when it comes to education. We are leaving plenty of children behind. :(

Every parent whose child is "diagnosed" ADD by school employee, whether it be a teacher or a school psychologist should demand to observe their child in the classroom over a separate number of days. The schools and the parents do not have interests that coincide. Inadequate funding of education makes their interests necessarily different. Too often the child is short changed due these competing interests.

Tnbsmommy, I cannot give medical advice but I do have some suggestions: Educate yourself about supplementation. Were I dealing with a child with ADD, I would try supplementation first. Also, I found that when I switched to a low carb diet I began to make much better decisions and attend better. (My recent blood work bears out the fact that this decision was a good one. It was perfect. I have reduced my triglicerides by 300pts by low carbing. My heart is great. My glucose is great. I have lost weight and my blood pressure has been steadily coming down.) You must stringently restrict all sugar, white flour products (most breads and pastas), and high carb veggies like potatoes. Carrots are okay. Beans and peas should be restricted at first and gradually reintroduced. Green vegetables are essential. Nutrasweet actually has a bad reaction in some people (me, for instance) so watch the diet sodas. Allow no caffienated beverages after 2 pm.

Do not rule out medication as a possible choice. Your child's education is too important to his future. But do not allow a doctor to prescribe SSRIs as a substitute for stims. (Recent reports of very serious problems with SSRIs and children!) But too many psych docs act live they are in love with SSRIs. I would give my child Dex before I would give her Paxil.

tnbsmommy
03-13-05, 05:38 PM
Coral, thank you for the suggestions... I am currently working on revamping my whole family's eating habits.... I am not ruling out medication...he is on it now b/c I feel his education is so important, I just want to try different avenues also.. I have a couple weeks where the kids are out of school starting the week after next, so I want to use that time to explore other options without meds, and see if there is a change in his behavior/concentration/forgetfulness....

Coral Rhedd
03-13-05, 05:52 PM
I found that the low carbing first helped me with weight loss. If he is on stims you don't want him to lose weight. So that is something to be watchful about. I would use high calories protein. Let him have steaks, homemade salad dressing with lots of olive oil, salmon (canned is recommend because it is generally not fresh water), and eggs and bacon. If he gets starts getting skinny, try legumes in the evening. For sweetner I use sucralose (Splenda).

I find if I keep to proteins in the mornings and afternoons (with all I want of green vegetables) and add some carbs (beans, low-carb bread or tortillas) in the evening, I sleep better. Getting good sleep is absolutely essential.

To people who are panicking at the idea of low-carb: I am absolutely not recommending Atkins type induction for children or anybody else.

Mee
03-13-05, 05:59 PM
The sugar .. food additives and just processed foods in general seem to be the main things to stay away from if you can ...... all the things that most kids love .

Coral Rhedd
03-13-05, 07:04 PM
Coral, this is where I have a great deal of difficulty understanding, and I mean "difficulty" as in completely baffled.

I have complained to many Non ADD'ers about the boring tasks, and they all feel the same. None of them feel motivated to wash, iron, clean. They are bored too. Where is this different? If we have or know so many Non ADD'ers who find repetetive tasks boring, where do we draw the line?

The word bored, as you would know, simply means "uninterested". I wonder, if put to a test, how many Non Adder's would say they found cleaning the bathroom/kitchen/house really interesting?

I'm not going from reading. I am going from asking Non Adder's and seeing ADD'ers capable of doing these things and hate it all the way. But does this make it totally impossible?

Well this is where I may have a rather odd perspective. You see, I used to function much better before depression (and I believe antidepressants) compounded my ADD symptoms. Also, I have had to deal with the PTSD, which just completely saps your mental energy.

In the past, boring tasks were a little less boring for me because I was able by discipline to return myself to focus. I could balance my checkbook, which took about 15 minutes of every Saturday morning. I could stand to do the dishes because this meant filling the dishwasher. It did not take too long.

Overtime, my mental functioning deteriorated and my life and life tasks became more complicated, (Perimenopause also played a role. :rolleyes: ) and I became increasing unable to tolerate boring tasks because my mind would wander so very often. I believe there is a great frustration factor. We want to do what rewards us. We do not want to do what does not. In the past, my reward was a clean kitchen and a balanced checkbook. As my mental condition got worse, the stick part (being bored and frustrated) began to outweigh the carrot part.


When you say "painful", can you define in which terms you mean that. This is one of my hardest areas....not to procrastinate, but I just refuse to give in. I wouldn't find the word "painful" appropriate to me, but more like pushing cement up a hill. Extremely hard, but I still do everything I have to.

Emotionally painful. Feeling like a total failure when I try to do organizational tasks and having that failure recall to my mind verbal abuse I suffered as a result of organizational failures as a child. Sometimes memory can be a horrible thing! The failure of my executive functioning makes me feel like a failure as a person. The yearning to turn from the task at hand at distract myself with something more desirable and less painful is compelling. (Viktoria, I think you of all will understand when I say I am in tears as I write this!)

ADD children cannot escape what must seem to them like verbal abuse. The linear world does not mean to be abusive, but it is much easier to call someone lazy or careless than to seek real solutions. (And of course we all know people who like to place blame.) It think striving at organizational tasks triggers fear in the ADDer. Fear is a great distraction. Our simple survival mechanism is to replace it with another more pleasant distraction.


I can see where you are coming from, but would love for you to expand on this from your own opinion. I greatly enjoy your posts, and many make me think, so your input would interest me. :)

Thank you. As I always enjoy your posts. :)

I hope I have added clarity and not confusion.

tnbsmommy
03-13-05, 09:41 PM
Coral the funny thing is he is already considered on the low end of the scale weightwise. He lost two pounds from Dec. to Jan...but the dr. didn't seem concerned, and Brandon even told her he eats all the time...

Thank you so much for your time! I do appreciate it!

RhapsodyInBlue
03-14-05, 02:16 AM
Coral, thank you. I will come back to this post of yours a little later, as I understand now a little too well. I think you know what I mean.

I'm sorry if it triggered you. Me too now.

Hugs,
Viktoria

RhapsodyInBlue
03-14-05, 06:40 AM
=Coral Rhedd-Well this is where I may have a rather odd perspective. You see, I used to function much better before depression (and I believe antidepressants) compounded my ADD symptoms. Also, I have had to deal with the PTSD, which just completely saps your mental energy.

I totally agree. PTSD saps just about all mental energy that exists. I must admit, I stopped the Anit-Depressants [200mg Doxepin] because they made me feel worse, almost as if life was a dream.

In the past, boring tasks were a little less boring for me because I was able by discipline to return myself to focus. I could balance my checkbook, which took about 15 minutes of every Saturday morning. I could stand to do the dishes because this meant filling the dishwasher. It did not take too long.
Overtime, my mental functioning deteriorated and my life and life tasks became more complicated, (Perimenopause also played a role. :rolleyes: ) and I became increasing unable to tolerate boring tasks because my mind would wander so very often. I believe there is a great frustration factor. We want to do what rewards us. We do not want to do what does not. In the past, my reward was a clean kitchen and a balanced checkbook. As my mental condition got worse, the stick part (being bored and frustrated) began to outweigh the carrot part.

I so much relate to this, and comprehend what you are saying. Even thought I "do" these things, I must admit to times of just feeling totally overwhelmed. Your explanation is very clear, and doesn't make me look forward to perimenopause.:rolleyes: . Frustration is a feeling I can relate to very simply, as easily as I can to the carrot.

An easy, and recent example was when I was cooking dinner, trying to organize chopping food, Andrei's lunch for work, and put groceries away. I just ended up in tears and was terribly sad that Andrei didn't see that I was floundering. I was juggling things again last night, but it still went unnoticed. So, although I manage all of these things, I cry a lot over the difficulty. But I think my PTSD, which has recently been added to, has made this much worse. The carrot does lose it's flavor. Even though I get things done; it is never easy. Farthest thing from easy.

Emotionally painful. Feeling like a total failure when I try to do organizational tasks and having that failure recall to my mind verbal abuse I suffered as a result of organizational failures as a child. Sometimes memory can be a horrible thing! The failure of my executive functioning makes me feel like a failure as a person. The yearning to turn from the task at hand at distract myself with something more desirable and less painful is compelling. (Viktoria, I think you of all will understand when I say I am in tears as I write this!)

Coral, I am so sorry. I did not mean to trigger this in you. I am so sorry, I live with this myself, and yet I seem to not pay it attention and live in denial until I read it written as you have. Part of me still cannot fully come to terms with the physical and emotional abuse. The "memories of abuse" factor is extremely high for me. I must be honest, and say that no matter what I have attained, I never "feel" successful. Like I have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on another. The angel says I have succeeded, the devil says I haven't. I always listen to the devil.

ADD children cannot escape what must seem to them like verbal abuse. The linear world does not mean to be abusive, but it is much easier to call someone lazy or careless than to seek real solutions. (And of course we all know people who like to place blame.) It think striving at organizational tasks triggers fear in the ADDer. Fear is a great distraction. Our simple survival mechanism is to replace it with another more pleasant distraction.

Yes, the things that are said to a child 'can' be seen as abuse; sometimes they are abusive. I can so easily recall my adoptive mother telling me I was so different from others, and why couldn't I be like so and so. I always attained straight A's and B's in school, with a C+ for Math which I detested, but it was never enough due to the mentioned "never pays attention", and every report card was a reason to give physical and verbal abuse. I distracted myself during those times by disassociating. I did not know that then, but have come to know it through therapy. I often wonder how many children go through this needlessly. I often hate to imagine.

Thank you. As I always enjoy your posts. :)

I hope I have added clarity and not confusion.

No. You added great clarity. You also helped me to see what I so often deny within myself. Thank you. :)

VickiS
03-14-05, 10:45 AM
Back to Dr. Phil, I only caught the 2nd half so I may have missed it. I could not help wondering just how long that women was willing to sit back and blame the school for her not having a diagnosis. I think she will be severely disappointed in the end results if she does not start taking more initiative and reduce her expectations of our public school system.

tamtamm71
03-14-05, 11:49 AM
While teaching I couldn't help but notice the non involvement of many parents. This idea that the school should handle it all for them is horrible. I agree that noone should blame the school for non treatment. At some point we have to understand the school is only there to teach (ie. reading, writing, etc.) Parents have to take responsibility for their children. If the child needs help the parent must seek it, not sit around and wait for someone else to do the work for them.


I did not see the show. I am only responding to the last post.

VickiS
03-14-05, 12:37 PM
I am not a teacher, just a parent who could not sit still and watch my child fall through the cracks.
My son's teacher is awesome, not because she has any special skills or is so in-tune with his needs, but because she is willing to work with me and try out many of the ideas I have come up with through my research (books, I-net, workshops) She wants to see him succeed and is thrilled to see his progress, but made it clear from the beginning she needs my help,

FunkyMonkeyLee
03-14-05, 11:30 PM
I'm speeking from my point of view. I was Dx'ed in middle school and was put on ritalin and the school said I had to be medicated your I had to go to a different school. this made me hate to take the meds, I didn't want to feel different so i would pretend to take it and spit it out later. (this was after 2yrs on it) My mom desided to take me off the meds cause i wouldn't take it. So for yrs I told my self I could do it with out the meds. I did the diets was very active, played softball for yrs in a league, bowling everything you could think of I did or tryed. Now I lokk back and realized I totally screwed up by not taking it. All the jobs i had, not finishing school.......so on and so on. Its really hard for kids cause they don't want to feel different, And that is the real reason I hated being on the meds. If I knew what i knew now I would have never stoped taking the meds. I try to imagine what my life would be like if stayed on....So thats my opinion. I think kids hate to take the meds cause they don't want to fell different. Sorry if it offends anyone but that is my opinion. Kinda scared to post this though. but someone ask about being forced to take the meds.

Mee
03-15-05, 12:04 AM
FunkyMonkeyLee at what age did you stop taking Ritalin when you were a kid and how long were you on it . As an adult when did you start taking it again and how long have you been taking it now .

Coral Rhedd
03-15-05, 12:38 AM
I'm speeking from my point of view. I was Dx'ed in middle school and was put on ritalin and the school said I had to be medicated your I had to go to a different school. this made me hate to take the meds, I didn't want to feel different so i would pretend to take it and spit it out later. (this was after 2yrs on it) My mom desided to take me off the meds cause i wouldn't take it. So for yrs I told my self I could do it with out the meds. I did the diets was very active, played softball for yrs in a league, bowling everything you could think of I did or tryed. Now I lokk back and realized I totally screwed up by not taking it. All the jobs i had, not finishing school.......so on and so on. Its really hard for kids cause they don't want to feel different, And that is the real reason I hated being on the meds. If I knew what i knew now I would have never stoped taking the meds. I try to imagine what my life would be like if stayed on....So thats my opinion. I think kids hate to take the meds cause they don't want to fell different. Sorry if it offends anyone but that is my opinion. Kinda scared to post this though. but someone ask about being forced to take the meds.
When I was a child I use to hate to swallow pills. I would gag. Even as a teenager, I would try to avoid them. I remember feeding the supplements my aunt tried to force upon me to the dog. That was one healthy dog!

I think from a child's perspective medication can seem like punishment. An excellent short story is "The Use of Force" by William Carlos Williams. Williams was a doctor as well as a poet, and in this story he tells of how a physician's perspective suddenly shifts to truly understand the fear of the child he is trying to treat.

I have to say that sometimes I wish I had been medicated with a stimulant as a child but I doubt, given my stubborness, that that would even have been possible. My parents weren't the type to try to reason with me or explain things. :rolleyes:

However, when I was a teenager I was given phenobarbital "because [I] chewed [my] fingernails." I actually swallowed those. I was probably an addict. I went to school totally zonked and failed every subject my freshman year except English.

Mee
03-15-05, 12:50 AM
For me it had nothing to do with taking pills or worrying about what people thought about me ... the problem was coming down from the Stimulant and loosing the high it gives you . I did not like being on Ritalin as a kid becuase when it would wear off it just felt horrible .eek: I would take my Ritalin and feel great and then a few hours when it would wear off I would feel sick again . Like a roller coster ride . I must be the exception becuase it does not seem like many people here have this problem when it wears off . I see many here taking other medication to help with the side effects of Stimulants so that may be why some here are not bothered by the side effects .

Coral Rhedd
03-15-05, 01:05 AM
For me it had nothing to do with taking pills or worrying about what people thought about me ... the problem was coming down from the Stimulant and loosing the high it gives you . I did not like being on Ritalin as a kid becuase when it would wear off it just felt horrible .eek: I would take my Ritalin and feel great and then a few hours when it would wear off I would feel sick again . Like a roller coster ride . I must be the exception becuase it does not seem like many people here have this problem when it wears off . I see many here taking other medication to help with the side effects of Stimulants so that may be why some here are not bothered by the side effects .
My problem was when the barbituate the kind family doctor prescribed wore off. I would freak. I was a raving maniac in the evenings.

On Adderall now, I feel very centered. The only problem is feeling fairly tired when it starts to wear off. Mee, I am only taking Adderall and supplements. It is like finally finding my brain!

I think the problem is when people get totally prescriptive (pun) and think what works for them will necessarily work for everyone. The problem with medicating really little kids (under 8) is they cannot verbalize the effects of the medicine. Good communication must surely be a large part of a successful picture.

Mee
03-15-05, 01:15 AM
I think the problem is when people get totally prescriptive (pun) and think what works for them will necessarily work for everyone. The problem with medicating really little kids (under 8) is they cannot verbalize the effects of the medicine. Good communication must surely be a large part of a successful picture.

Yea it is hard to get the dose right when you can not really explain thins in debts with your Dr and come to boards like this . How long have you been on adderall and with other meds did you feel the crash like I was explaining .

Coral Rhedd
03-15-05, 01:23 AM
Mee, I was half-way DXed 6 years ago but I was on so much other stuff for depression that it was difficult to tell what was doing what. I was on Ritalin and it actually made me sort of scattered. I started tons of project but with the depression, I had no follow through. So I was only on Ritalin a couple of months.

Last summer I went off of everything. I wanted to be clean if you know what I mean. I made it through some strange mood swings and after I made it halfway through winter without offing myself, I decided to try Adderall because it was clear that my biggest remaining problem was focus. I started in early January and I really feel pretty good.

My next project is working on entrenched habits. Adderall hasn't made me a new person. I still have me to contend with and all the avoidant habits I acquired from years of ADD. But now, at least it seems possible to improve.

Just one point: I started with 20mgs of AdderallXR. I think XR must be made for people who don't mind giving up sleep. There were times I felt both wired and tired. Now I am on regular release. I take 7 1/2 mgs at 8am and 7 1/2 at 12 noon. In the evening I just let myself be mellow. Now I sleep. :)

Mee
03-15-05, 01:34 AM
Would love to take Adderall again I really miss how it made me feel .. but I do not miss the feeling of it wearing off .... I do not know how to handle the depression it gives me when it wears off I just get sick .. it is to bad.

FunkyMonkeyLee
03-16-05, 10:38 AM
I was Dx'ed at 10 but was not taking ritalin until I was 12. I started taking ritalin for 2 yrs and after 2 yrs i took it very rarely, I would spit it out I really hated the way I was treated. Alot of people and teachers made fun of me cause I had ADD and had to take meds. So my mom found out that i was not taking it and desided to take me out of school and go to work for them at the family business.

AnnAnnAnn
06-05-05, 11:15 AM
Hello --

This is quite a healthy discussion on the various aspects of learning about ADD from so many perspectives.

Some people like things in black and white. They like to know that an answer is either yes or no. Dr. Phil appeals to that type of person.

Answers that fall into a grey area like trying to understand the diagnosis of ADD when the behavior can be different from person to person and also different by degrees bothers people.

It is frightening to realize that many people's thoughts are governed by an overriding desire to be seen as "normal" as it is currently culturally defined; they want to be on the winning side, the side with the power. They never think to question whether those in power are "right."

Life is complex. People are complex and lots of people don't like complexity. It makes making a decision more difficult.

Plus, those people who like to see things in black and white operate on the concept that there are not enough resources for everyone. Not enough jobs, not enough money, not enough medical care, not enough sympathy, so they believe resources are rationed -- and those who are labelled "not normal" -- often are marginalized and denied resources.

In my family, we have a history of depression, alcoholism, ADD, abuse, addiction, and breast cancer, guess which diagnosis gets the sympathy and which get labelled as a character flaw, weakness, or excuse.

Just standing back and watching people process information tells you something. I watch the language people use and it helps me realize how they perceive the world. I guess the saddest thing for me is that our public education system has failed us all.

I am sure that this book is listed somewhere on this site but "Healing ADD" by Thom Hartmann is worth a read.

iforgot
07-21-05, 06:38 PM
Is there a summery anywhere about Dr. Phil's show today? (July 21)

<TABLE class=tborder id=post199060 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap>Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1

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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- message -->:confused: I only caught a part of today's program (I got distracted ;) )


did anyone catch the name of the doctor who suggested some simple steps involving relaxation & excersize etc.?
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sin nombre
07-22-05, 04:10 PM
My mom occasionally watches Dr. Phil and shows like it, and I have to say that I actually respect Dr. Phil more than I would some hack like 'Dr.' Laura. He does make a point of saying that additional help is needed, that no one is 'cured' in an hour.

That said, my mom has recommended things like making sure I eat right, exercising, and all of that. Well, since I don't live on campus (temporary, sadly; I move back next month), I have been eating much better and I exercise every day because I ride my bike to class and back. And guess what? I still need meds.

Without Ritalin, I get easily overwhelmed when given a slew of instructions at work and too easily distracted during lecture, which is 2 hours a day, and lab, which is 3 hours three days a week. Also, my temper is much shorter, especially during lecture when I'm mentally trying to work through things and keep getting distracted by other people's voices.

Even with Ritalin, it's not all sunshine and roses, but I know that it's not supposed to be. I'd say the majority of the linear world doesn't realize that there is no such thing as a complete fix. My mom is sort of ahead of the curve in knowing that the meds can't fix everything, but I believe she still thinks that it can be fixed, somehow.

The same goes with depression, too. I did alright without meds, but I was always either declining mood-wise or extremely motivated to fix the mess I'd made and do really well in class. Incidentally, I think that's the reason why the person who tested me for ADD thinks I have cyclothemia (yay Axis II disorders). Paxil helped substantially, but I wasn't a fan of the risk of weight gain, so I went on Wellbutrin, but it doesn't help much with the anxiety.

QueensU_girl
12-25-05, 03:19 AM
I was upset that

#1. he did not EXPLAIN that ADD/ADHD often cooccurs with other DIsorders.
(a) Not all of us have Conduct Disorders or Anti-Social Personality Disorder (which he fails to explain) and not all of us are Future Criminals!!
(b) some of us have anxiety or depression; and are actually more likely to be Victimized, not Victimizers/Bullies.


#2. his explantion of ADD seems to be "hyperactivity" or "annoying others". Not all of us are like that, and those are HARDLY all the problematic symptoms.

#3. many ADD symptoms are not visible or understood well by Society/Media. (eg the Memory Problems; the Pain of Under=Acheivement, etc.)

Dr. Phil is such a Jerk, via his Omissions in information, sometimes.

Emma

Triana
03-02-06, 09:34 PM
Gregster said: I get angry just thinking about how the show is going to go, although I'd also argue against medicating a 4 year old depending on how dangerous she was.....

I know a 3 yr old that is on Ritalin and the difference is unreal. (The child was not dangerous.) The child is now able to actually sit relatively still and learn, watch a show and interact with peers and enjoy the process. Before the child could not sit still 30 seconds without creating pure chaos. This child seems to have gained so much and enjoys activities now.
Each person or parent must decide for himself/herself. I'm not out to start a med war. I just wish people could see a before/after video of this child.

Humble1
05-02-06, 03:47 PM
Here is my to bitts on the matter: Other people will watch shows like that ( I won't but... ) a lot of misconceptions can come up from them. You can't always answer "Dr phill is an idiot" everytrime someone says something about what they now think is true because its been on tv.

You cannot argue, correct or agree-on what you don't know... prepare and adjust.
Humble1

fuzzybrain
05-03-06, 10:32 PM
I like Dr. Phil, I am one of those black and white people-I like things put to me in that way-seriously with logic so I can "get it" tune in, and be paying attention-he is like a good cup of coffee to me, but I don't necessarily agree with everything he says-and I am not sure I like that Mr. Lawless fellow-I think I don't. just my 2cents.

dormammau2008
05-04-06, 08:46 AM
whats he say then fuzzy ??? i like logic as welllllll.....an i allways pay ation to whats going on around me as well l,)))dorm

fuzzybrain
05-04-06, 02:04 PM
He just makes it real plain to people that you don't make excuses or pretend-you deal honestly and rightly with yourself and others, you expect a lot from yourself-you think and act like a winner and then you will be a winner, have a vision, and then you take steps to make it happen-it is clearcut, and as you can see from my username-I need clearcut. Hope this helps, I can write more if you want-just don't lie to yourself or pretend, be real. Lori