View Full Version : ADHD a role in human existence


ginniebean
11-19-13, 12:03 PM
let's say for arguments sake that people with adhd do not have any sort of disorder. What would traits such as ours be good for?


If we allow ourselves to be defined as deficient and in your average workaday world we are. Yet let's look at other things about people with adhd?

Before I go further, I think we need to realise also that not everyone diagnosed adhd has adhd.

Never mind subtypes. There are those who seem to have a more refined conscience and those who appear to lack in that regard. This is something I've noticed on the forums. I'm going to say the latter group are not the same at all even tho we may share a lot of symptoms.

The strengths of the first group are the ones I'm interested in.



Heightened emotional sensitivity
Intuitive sense
sense of justice or morality
Seekers
Explorers
Need meaning or we become depressed.

Have little motivation to generate wealth
Find small talk and social contracts strange.
Difficulty prioritizing many things



It's not what we lack that is important in this paradigm but rather what we have to offer.

I'm sure my list is far from exhaustive. What could humanity benefit from these traits in 1/20th of the population?


I have noticed a precocious philosophical/spiritual awareness in most people with ADHD. This awareness appears in such a great amount of people with ADHD it's remarkable in my experience.

I'm not suggesting that in the world, as it is, that adhd is not a disabling condition, I'm suggesting that people like us have qualities suited to certain roles that may not be valued in our culture. I'm also suggesting that unless we develop our particular qualities our suffering and suffering in the world will continue to increase until we perhaps end human existence.

SB often speaks of this an an emergent species, I do not see us as an emergent species but rather a necessary yet devalued subset of humanity that is necessary for healthy functioning of human groups.

There is much about our world that is contrived and excessive, balance is a word that could not be used to descrive what humanity is doing even tho it gets spoken of a lot.

We can see the insanity of the dominant roles where accumulation is the most important aim, where status is bestowed based on accumulation and deception.

Many with ADHD don't want to participate in this and have an inner sense of taint when they do.



I'd like to discuss this with any who are interested. I've put this in the spirituality section because it is about spirituality and because such a conversation is tenuous and debate interferes with the flow and often can shut the conversation down.

So, let's bring it.

dvdnvwls
11-19-13, 02:01 PM
ginniebean: For whatever reasons, it feels to me as if you've "really hit the nail on the head". Thank you for your very perceptive look at [whatever this is] that has lately been discussed so poorly and mis-guidedly.

I'm sorry to begin with something that's half-joking, but I couldn't resist.
In a book called The Restaurant at the End of the Universe by Douglas Adams, the un-named character who is the Ruler of the Universe (a small thoughtful man who lives in a shack and talks to his cat a lot, isn't interested in political importance or priorities or in ruling much of anything at all, and is fascinated by seemingly-insignificant details, and seems not to understand socializing and small-talk very well) seems to fit your description to a certain extent. :)

I think it's significant to note that Adams apparently never mentions how this character's decisions as ruler of the universe come to be implemented. :)

Hopefully others (and maybe me) will have some more-realistic thoughts as well. :)

SB_UK
11-19-13, 02:02 PM
let's say for arguments sake that people with adhd do not have any sort of disorder. What would traits such as ours be good for?


If we allow ourselves to be defined as deficient and in your average workaday world we are. Yet let's look at other things about people with adhd?

Before I go further, I think we need to realise also that not everyone diagnosed adhd has adhd.

Never mind subtypes. There are those who seem to have a more refined conscience and those who appear to lack in that regard. This is something I've noticed on the forums. I'm going to say the latter group are not the same at all even tho we may share a lot of symptoms.

The strengths of the first group are the ones I'm interested in.



Heightened emotional sensitivity
Intuitive sense
sense of justice or morality
Seekers
Explorers
Need meaning or we become depressed.

Have little motivation to generate wealth
Find small talk and social contracts strange.
Difficulty prioritizing many things



It's not what we lack that is important in this paradigm but rather what we have to offer.

I'm sure my list is far from exhaustive. What could humanity benefit from these traits in 1/20th of the population?


I have noticed a precocious philosophical/spiritual awareness in most people with ADHD. This awareness appears in such a great amount of people with ADHD it's remarkable in my experience.

I'm not suggesting that in the world, as it is, that adhd is not a disabling condition, I'm suggesting that people like us have qualities suited to certain roles that may not be valued in our culture. I'm also suggesting that unless we develop our particular qualities our suffering and suffering in the world will continue to increase until we perhaps end human existence.

SB often speaks of this an an emergent species, I do not see us as an emergent species but rather a necessary yet devalued subset of humanity that is necessary for healthy functioning of human groups.

There is much about our world that is contrived and excessive, balance is a word that could not be used to descrive what humanity is doing even tho it gets spoken of a lot.

We can see the insanity of the dominant roles where accumulation is the most important aim, where status is bestowed based on accumulation and deception.

Many with ADHD don't want to participate in this and have an inner sense of taint when they do.



I'd like to discuss this with any who are interested. I've put this in the spirituality section because it is about spirituality and because such a conversation is tenuous and debate interferes with the flow and often can shut the conversation down.

So, let's bring it.

I don't really have anything much to add.

That's exactly it - the way I see things.

What use are sensitive lil' flowers ?
Well - if we were to imagine a world of only 'lesser' (with the occasional 'greater') dictators - well ... ... it wouldn't be very nice.
Though I guess the lesser dictators 'd be happy trying to climb up above the medium level dictators ... ... and so wouldn't question their lot

- may actually enjoy it ie the thrill of the chase of the 'greater' dictator.

Enter ADD.

Oi!! lesser to greater (taking in all intermediary) dictators
- you know - none of this is real.

Money is a made up construct - and you hated economics at school ... so why the fuss now ?
Gold is just a chemical element - and you hated chemistry at school ... so why the fuss now ?
You don't actually own that expensive car - and you hated mechanics at school ... so why the fuss now ?
Being at a party with pop singers and professional footballers brings the thinking person down with feelings of dread - and you hated vacuous self-centred people at school ... so why the fuss now ?

Onwards to a proper education !

Life's better as a nobody, in the warm, in complete silence with a dog with so much fluff, that she's a dream to cuddle.

ginniebean
11-19-13, 02:24 PM
I don't really have anything much to add.

That's exactly it - the way I see things.

What use are sensitive lil' flowers ?


Enter ADD.

Oi!! lesser to greater (taking in all intermediary) dictators
- you know - none of this is real.


Onwards to a proper education !

Life's better as a nobody, in the warm, in complete silence with a dog with so much fluff, that she's a dream to cuddle.


So, what is this education you speak of? Let's explore that together. What I see, and you've often said in different words is that there are those who are oriented externally and those who are oriented internally.

Our inner life is given pretty short shrift and is often explained away dismissively as 'simply the creakings of the machine.

Can our internal, inner life be mapped? Can we discover it's landscape and use what's there with skill? Not just for our benefit but for the benefit of all, to do otherwise would be 'selfish'.

The undiscovered country, the final frontier is this foggy, hazy, apparently shifting landscape that we spend most of our lives in.

Our lives of composed of exterior events and our internal reactions to them. Where we apparently fail is inwardly, we're told we have the wrong reactions. I'm questioning this, do we?

I save money because I'm supposed to, I personally don't care about money, and see that it motivates greed, anger, condescension, and a host of ugliness that is not acknowledged as "wrong internal reactions" No, these are approved 'feelings'. We're told they are necessary for success. What madness is this?

SB_UK
11-19-13, 02:26 PM
........................

ginniebean
11-19-13, 02:30 PM
ginniebean: For whatever reasons, it feels to me as if you've "really hit the nail on the head". Thank you for your very perceptive look at [whatever this is] that has lately been discussed so poorly and mis-guidedly.

I'm sorry to begin with something that's half-joking, but I couldn't resist.


How we begin doesn't matter, and a wry and odd lil funny seems pretty appropriate. I hope we can keep lightness in here and not take ourselves too seriously, yet what I'm pointing towards does have it's one gravity and I can see you acknowledge this. :)

All that matters is that we begin.

ginniebean
11-19-13, 02:33 PM
........................

Equality? Equality is an ideal, it's an air castle in that sense. I'm looking at Unity and of necessity it includes equivalency which is more accurate as a word than equality.

SB_UK
11-19-13, 02:42 PM
So, what is this education you speak of? Let's explore that together. What I see, and you've often said in different words is that there are those who are oriented externally and those who are oriented internally.

Our inner life is given pretty short shrift and is often explained away dismissively as 'simply the creakings of the machine.

Can our internal, inner life be mapped? Can we discover it's landscape and use what's there with skill? Not just for our benefit but for the benefit of all, to do otherwise would be 'selfish'.

The undiscovered country, the final frontier is this foggy, hazy, apparently shifting landscape that we spend most of our lives in.

Our lives of composed of exterior events and our internal reactions to them. Where we apparently fail is inwardly, we're told we have the wrong reactions. I'm questioning this, do we?

I save money because I'm supposed to, I personally don't care about money, and see that it motivates greed, anger, condescension, and a host of ugliness that is not acknowledged as "wrong internal reactions" No, these are approved 'feelings'. We're told they are necessary for success. What madness is this?

I think it sounds complicated when described that way ie inside and outside and ... ... because there's no real distinction - it's all just one big swoosh ie everything in what we call reality is just 1 big swoosh.

All that we need - (to get the species out of the hole we're in) - is sufficient (and it doesn't take much) education - which we can take for ourselves and use to work out how we came to be.

We came to be by a blind watchmaker called God.
Well I say!

Once one's mind makes sense - well ... ... one's mind ceases to care about any of the information which was required to get it up to speed
- and (the incessant questions!!) leave you alone to be happy.

So - what's the best education for enlightenment ?
Ahhh - well that'd be natural scientifitrickery.

The boson has the key.
-- David Lynch.

ginniebean
11-19-13, 02:45 PM
I think it sounds complicated when described that way ie inside and outside and ... ... because there's no real distinction - it's all just one big swoosh ie everything in what we call reality is just 1 big swoosh.

All that we need - (to get the species out of the hole we're in) - is sufficient (and it doesn't take much) education - which we can take for ourselves and use to work out how we came to be.

We came to be by a blind watchmaker called God.


Once one's mind makes sense - well ... ... one's mind ceases to care about any of the information which was required to get it up to speed
- and (the incessant questions!!) leave you alone to be happy.

So - what's the best education for enlightenment ?
Ahhh - well that'd be natural scientifitrickery.

The boson has the key.
-- David Lynch.

Well stick around anyway, I value your input.

SB_UK
11-19-13, 03:02 PM
http://wrestling.isport.com/userfiles/Guide/image/Wrestling/Wrestling_HowtoStackAHalf_01_300x350.jpg

The chap on top with a bow in his hair has us all in a half Nelson - is our mind at 1st contact.

Our goal is simply to get away.

sarek
11-19-13, 03:30 PM
What Ginnie is pointing out in this thread is of grave importance, much graver than we may perhaps realise. Humanities old ways of doing things is a dead end. Wars and poverty are still as much part of the daily life of far too many humans as it has been throughout history. As the solutions advance, so do the problems.

It is time to stop looking to others to tell us what to do and what our conscience should look like. We need better guidance. We need individual personal guidance so that each of us can become aware of the consequences of our thoughts and actions. We can find that guidance inside of us, and spiritual development is of the essence.

And are not people like us ideally suited to pioneer in that field? Could that perhaps be our true niche, the exploration of that final undiscovered country, the world within?

ginniebean
11-19-13, 04:08 PM
I think it is Sarek, just as one example. People with ADHD tend to be good with mimicry (mirroring) and this comes to us naturally.

Does it have a use in the roles we are meant to fill? Skillful understanding of our peculiar strengths may help us find our calling. By no means am I suggesting it's just one role.

sarek
11-20-13, 04:11 PM
We have done a lot of talking about awareness and meditation and its obvious that it has powerful practical applications.

But what is far more important is that it is also a doorway to the self. And within the self, great mysteries can be found. Judging on the basis of my own, albeit limited, experience so far.
AD(H)D people are perfectly equipped to utilise these methods and go way beyond the surface layer of everyday life, and into the deepest depths humans can achieve.
I picked up both theory and practice very fast, almost as if it was tailor made for me. I took one look at the system(in my case Gurdjieffs Fourth Way) and instantly intuited that it was what i had been waiting for.

doiadhd
11-20-13, 08:22 PM
I think it is Sarek, just as one example. People with ADHD tend to be good with mimicry (mirroring) and this comes to us naturally.

Does it have a use in the roles we are meant to fill? Skillful understanding of our peculiar strengths may help us find our calling. By no means am I suggesting it's just one role.
The mimicking can be seen as mocking
this has been troubling me

i feel as though,thought it may have something to do
with the under development of the brain,as in,children mimic
mirror a lot. . .which ain't a good look for a male adult,especially.

Then there is the equal and exact opposite part,which is mirroring to an extreme

Glad i read your post ginnie,
cordless hand drill,dry wall screw,
or nail,hammer,head x

ginniebean
11-20-13, 11:08 PM
The mimicking can be seen as mocking
this has been troubling me

i feel as though,thought it may have something to do
with the under development of the brain,as in,children mimic
mirror a lot. . .which ain't a good look for a male adult,especially.

Good point, I hadn't considered this. Well,
Never know, might come in handy somehow.


Then there is the equal and exact opposite part,which is mirroring to an extreme

Well, that's kinda what I'm talking about, as it is this makes us peculiar but it is possible that it has a use we don't fully understand.



Glad i read your post ginnie,
cordless hand drill,dry wall screw,
or nail,hammer,head x


I bought a hand drill, not cordless tho, it took years before I decided screw drivers suck, now I'm handier. :)

someothertime
11-21-13, 01:02 AM
Re: mimicking...

I think the process behind the action is what is relevant here.

Is it that we see the whole ( edit: on consideration I beleive I'm more referring to a speakers motivation and subcontextual contributors or even more accurately tueism ) . The often "percieved' deficiency of seperating a speakers actions, tone, mannerisms and specifically... emotion from their words.

I believe ginnie is onto something... in that while for alot of us this gets hooked into internal loops and expectation s... at it's heart... it's an immensely valuable and unique trait, that often does not get the recognition it deserves. Actually, I'd hesitate to say that 95% of the time we act out mimickery it is an expression of anomalies detected...

The whole... and the anomaly... this is what's going on.

Thankyou ginnie, and to every other contributor here and out there who speaks of value and the bigger picture... no amount of tools and therapy can trump acceptance... for that is the truth, the strength and the empowerment.

ginniebean
11-21-13, 03:05 AM
Re: mimicking...

I think the process behind the action is what is relevant here.

Is it that we see the whole ( edit: on consideration I beleive I'm more referring to a speakers motivation and subcontextual contributors or even more accurately tueism ) . The often "percieved' deficiency of seperating a speakers actions, tone, mannerisms and specifically... emotion from their words.


From my experience we do see the whole or rather a shifting between a native means of seeing the world and the expected conditioned view that is imposed.

Would you be able to expand a bit more on theism? I find this quite interesting.



Actually, I'd hesitate to say that 95% of the time we act out mimickery it is an expression of anomalies detected...

At least a experience of something foreign and a response to the anomaly with vocal and postural, even attitudinal trials, not just to discover whether there is a personal familiar match but also an evaluation of whether it's authenticity.



Thankyou ginnie, and to every other contributor here and out there who speaks of value and the bigger picture... no amount of tools and therapy can trump acceptance... for that is the truth, the strength and the empowerment.

I hope you continue to offer your insight into this thread, and Thankyou.

ginniebean
11-21-13, 03:12 AM
That link between imitation and humanity is at the crux of a new trend in evolutionary science: theories claiming that a class of nerve cells, dubbed "mirror neurons" for their ability to mirror the actions of others, were the spark that allowed our hominid ancestors to branch off from apes. Monkeys and apes also have these neurons (see page 49) but, claim the theories, the humanoid brain capitalized on them in new ways that allowed them to move beyond simple imitation to more complex imitation, and that in turn blossomed into language, music, art, tool-making and even empathy.
University of California, San Diego, neuroscientist and mirror-neuron proponent Vilayanur Ramachandran, MD, PhD, gives these cells credit for causing the big bang of human development, otherwise known as the "great leap forward." That leap occurred somewhere around 50,000 years ago, when human culture experienced a sudden explosion of technological sophistication, widespread cave art, clothes, stereotyped dwellings and the like.
While many researchers think Ramachandran goes too far with his claims, a large and growing group is intrigued enough by mirror neurons that more researchers have begun to investigate their potential role in human evolution.
"They are a mechanism of connecting me with you, one person with another, and therefore may play a vital role in communication and social interaction," says psychologist Sarah-Jayne Blakemore, PhD, of the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience at University College London.
Explaining the 'big bang'

When University of Parma, Italy, neuroscientist Giacomo Rizzolatti, MD, and his team discovered mirror neurons in monkeys in the early 1990s, several researchers immediately saw the potential to link mirror neurons to human evolution. But it was Ramachandran's provocative big bang essay published in 2000 on the Edge Web site (www.edge.org)--an online salon for scientists and other intellectuals--that really got people's attention.
"I predict that mirror neurons will do for psychology what DNA did for biology," wrote Ramachandran. "They will provide a unifying framework and help explain a host of mental abilities that have hitherto remained mysterious and inaccessible to experiments."
In particular, he says, mirror neurons primed the human brain for the great leap forward by allowing us the ability to imitate, read others' intentions and thereby learn from each other.

From http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mimicry.aspx

ginniebean
11-21-13, 04:03 AM
We have done a lot of talking about awareness and meditation and its obvious that it has powerful practical applications.

But what is far more important is that it is also a doorway to the self. And within the self, great mysteries can be found.

I had to take a closer look at what you've written here Sarek. There has been something disturbing to me about the marketing of mindfulness and meditation and this has been percolating in me for some time. I don't know if I can articulate it precisely and I'll give it a go.

It seems that mindfulness and meditation are being marketed as alternate medications, sedative, anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, rejuvinants, etc.. Of the wellness movement. There also seems to be a great deal of discomfort and nervousness about health, aging and disability around which engineered social scripts are being pushed forward. We are being informed how to express aging, illness and disability in the socially accepted way rather than allowing for individual expression, or even truthful reporting of the actual experience.

Mindfulness and meditation are being sold as panacea and it comes with an expectation of compliance with social order yet as you point out mindfulness and meditation open interior Doors and allow us to step beyond mechanical programming. There is much to lose when the methods of self discovery are plastered over to invent a fascade of glowing health. The words themselves become discredited when the association of tyrannical social commands are embedded with their use.

Dunno if that makes sense, maybe it will.

sarek
11-21-13, 04:15 AM
Yes, Ginnie that does make sense. And I am in two minds about this. The ability to be self aware is a human birthright and pretty much everyone is able to make use of it.

Yet, there are important aspects of it that go far beyond the demands of everyday life. It is very unwise to use self awareness merely as a health tool without at the very least thoroughly investigating what it is you're actually doing.

The commercialisation trend might on the one hand seem to be good for popularising the possibilities but at the same time commerce is dangerously polluting the well, which in its pure form is not of a material but a spiritual nature.

someothertime
11-21-13, 08:00 AM
Oooopsie. ( was on smartphone at park this arvo... specifically to read over this thread! )..

I mean't true-ism.... I don;t know if that's the right word but it explains what I need to be there in order to connect.

Authenticity of self ( in the other person ).

In other words if the person is being forthcoming totally and is invested in the interaction.

ginniebean
11-21-13, 01:21 PM
Tueism is a word, my pad autocorrected it, it's an interesting word none-the-less. We were on the same page in any case. Thanks for coming back and clarifying.

SB_UK
11-21-13, 04:03 PM
ADHD a role in human existence

Personally - I'm finding that ADD is a tendency towards living a monastery form of life - that is - the life style lived in a monastery.

If people were happy with 'chop wood, carry water' - then the world would be a better place.

Don't need to chop more wood, carry water in ever more imaginative ways.

Just chop wood, carry water.

ginniebean
12-21-13, 03:03 PM
Personally - I'm finding that ADD is a tendency towards living a monastery form of life - that is - the life style lived in a monastery.

If people were happy with 'chop wood, carry water' - then the world would be a better place.

Don't need to chop more wood, carry water in ever more imaginative ways.
Y
Just chop wood, carry water.

The question becomes can we discover the monastery in the world?

If I become free I also free you. You become free to accept or reject me, to be right and be wrong, to be. Just as you are, just as I am. Chop wood, carry water.

I care to be free and I care for others to be free.

The tyranny of my judgements enchain me and enchain you.

It seems to me the intention of a monastery is just this discovery of being free. These chains that enslave us may make us ill.

daveddd
12-21-13, 03:20 PM
i feel the same way

we don't need the building

just a new dress code

no more costumes , no more masks

ginniebean
12-21-13, 03:48 PM
I've been letting myself become naked, or at least as I'm able. To live without the masks and costumes. There is something so vulnerable in this, and perhaps there is a discomfort in witnessing it.


Vulnerability seems to trigger shame which in turn triggers pride. Perhaps, stopping to look at the shame, the place of vulnerability, where I am naked and alone. (Psychologically speaking) is when I am closest to being authentically who I am. Who I am has been rejected, attempts, some successful, some less so, of subjecting me to conditioning taught me that as I am there is something wrong with me, so it's not that I am ashamed but beneath this the discovery that the naked self is a shame.

Not being able to understand and conform and in turn not meeting with approval, there is no pleasure in conforming. It becomes an act, one often done in pain and fear of the consequences. The consequences for us being reminded again that we are a shame.

A life on the run, a deep anxiety ever-present. To be naked in my shame, I fight tooth and nail against any exposure. Pride, false inflation, a posture of holding in, of active suppression of who I am. I cannot breathe out. To breathe out is to release the tenuous hold I have, that keeps my head high, that it may fall and I may never be able to look at myself again.


I refuse, perhaps it's what is called oppositional defiance, to do things the way I'm supposed to. I won't be the "success" I see the oppression in that mask, in that clothing. A lead weight on my being.

I refuse to act "spiritually" covering myself in robes of glamour (magic) some artificial kindness, or artificial compassion. I refuse to fake it until I make it.

And so perhaps I am accused of inflicting upon others my naked self, an unwanted and undesired exposure. I expose my anger, my identification, my flaws, my warts and all. Yes, this causes a movement away, and yes, like some klingon ritual with painsticks I continue in spite of what is called good judgement.

Maybe, in some way,this is our common condition, maybe you too fear your own vulnerability and run from that horror called "making an *** out of yourself". Covering it up, donning attitudes, and pride as vestments to ward off the belief that deep down I am a shame. Maybe this is all meaningless word salad to you. I don't know.

ginniebean
12-21-13, 05:06 PM
You was said plural Dave. I was spilling some out, with no particular audience in mind.

daveddd
12-21-13, 05:16 PM
my vulnerability or being exposed is the root of my fears and my masks

i don't know what I'm ashamed of, is it shame itself, feelings?

I'm learning

daveddd
12-21-13, 05:22 PM
the role in human existence, i believe is compassion

one problem with sensitivities come vulnerabilities

shame, hiding of self and feelings

they put a huge roadblock in front of compassion

eclectic beagle
12-22-13, 01:30 AM
Well, these are just some quick thoughts, I don't know if they are accurate.

[adhd and its role in human existence]

Very blunt honesty. My somewhat limited social experience has led me to see that many people have the capacity to deceive--whether for good or ill. Always find honesty refreshing. I think many adhd-ers can be quite honest, even if they don't intend to be. Though, some adhd-ers can be just as duplicitous as everyone else, I think emotional regulation issues and impulse control problems forces honesty a decent percentage of the time. Hmm, it would make an interesting study, anyway.

I would also say that the disorder almost compels a sort of rampant curiosity about the brain--its malfunctions, specifically. This can lead to insight and empathy.

janiew
12-22-13, 01:40 AM
Workforce

- creativity, different approach

- geek factor - perseveration if channeled can be a marketable thing

Private life -

- empathy factor varies among us but is probably strong

- passion in relationships, regardless of the nature (not limited to romantic/sexual)

ADHD presents challenges in the NT world, but it's not without value. It just has to be recognized, harnessed, and channeled.

This doesn't mean we become NT slaves...

daveddd
12-22-13, 09:31 AM
Well, these are just some quick thoughts, I don't know if they are accurate.

[adhd and its role in human existence]

Very blunt honesty. My somewhat limited social experience has led me to see that many people have the capacity to deceive--whether for good or ill. Always find honesty refreshing. I think many adhd-ers can be quite honest, even if they don't intend to be. Though, some adhd-ers can be just as duplicitous as everyone else, I think emotional regulation issues and impulse control problems forces honesty a decent percentage of the time. Hmm, it would make an interesting study, anyway.

I would also say that the disorder almost compels a sort of rampant curiosity about the brain-- its malfunctions, specifically. This can lead to insight and empathy.[/QUOTE]

this is interesting

daveddd
12-22-13, 09:49 AM
someothertime mentioned a egotistical parrot or plastic robot

i have both of those in my closet too

i hate when i use them

ginniebean
12-22-13, 11:58 AM
Well, these are just some quick thoughts, I don't know if they are accurate.

[adhd and its role in human existence]

Very blunt honesty. My somewhat limited social experience has led me to see that many people have the capacity to deceive--whether for good or ill. Always find honesty refreshing. I think many adhd-ers can be quite honest, even if they don't intend to be. Though, some adhd-ers can be just as duplicitous as everyone else, I think emotional regulation issues and impulse control problems forces honesty a decent percentage of the time. Hmm, it would make an interesting study, anyway.

I would also say that the disorder almost compels a sort of rampant curiosity about the brain--its malfunctions, specifically. This can lead to insight and empathy.


Yes, I too see this same dichotomy of duplicity/honesty and to varying degrees it can be found in everyone. Some diagnosed as adhd are duplicitous in the extreme and others find duplicity a painful necessity.

Awareness of the conditions adhd does compel curiosity about the brain, however, what I'm looking at here is something different.

I guess I am asking who are we, not as a disease state but rather as a subset of humanity. That 1 in 20 people on this earth, rather than being disordered have a role to play, perhaps not all of us, perhaps from within this subset emerge a few that arrive on a grand scale to serve in some sort of manner.

Others, on a lower scale, tho I don't care for the higher/lower dichotomy there is that hindrance in language which can lead to thinking of better best or good and bad but this goes beyond these notions.

I do see a precocious orientation towards a discovery of self, of the world we live in, a philosophical bent, and a deep longing for meaning.

I see this with amazing frequency here where I have no other place. It's caused me to wonder about it.

ginniebean
12-22-13, 12:04 PM
Workforce

- creativity, different approach

- geek factor - perseveration if channeled can be a marketable thing

Private life -

- empathy factor varies among us but is probably strong

- passion in relationships, regardless of the nature (not limited to romantic/sexual)

ADHD presents challenges in the NT world, but it's not without value. It just has to be recognized, harnessed, and channeled.

This doesn't mean we become NT slaves...


I am not much a gifter or it's new label "strengths based approach". New label same exact rhetoric. I do see what some call gifts or strengths, bit what I'm seeing with it is the same tired how can we grease these square pegs so they can slide more easily into our round holes. What I am really hoping to discuss is, where do we find the square holes?

It's unlikely to change much, the world itself, we'll need to deal with and so in some way this needing to wedge ourselves into the round hole will still exist. Can we take this in a new direction, the discovery of possibility that square holes may exist? I don't have that answer, I'm just asking the question.

eclectic beagle
12-22-13, 01:55 PM
Yes, I too see this same dichotomy of duplicity/honesty and to varying degrees it can be found in everyone. Some diagnosed as adhd are duplicitous in the extreme and others find duplicity a painful necessity.

Awareness of the conditions adhd does compel curiosity about the brain, however, what I'm looking at here is something different.

I guess I am asking who are we, not as a disease state but rather as a subset of humanity. That 1 in 20 people on this earth, rather than being disordered have a role to play, perhaps not all of us, perhaps from within this subset emerge a few that arrive on a grand scale to serve in some sort of manner.

Others, on a lower scale, tho I don't care for the higher/lower dichotomy there is that hindrance in language which can lead to thinking of better best or good and bad but this goes beyond these notions.

I do see a precocious orientation towards a discovery of self, of the world we live in, a philosophical bent, and a deep longing for meaning.

I see this with amazing frequency here where I have no other place. It's caused me to wonder about it.


Well, I've heard other accounts of adhd--where the person feels the need to lie constantly to stay afloat, because it can be hard to stay coherent. So yes, I suppose it depends on how adhd interacts with other personality traits, over the long-term, during the formative years.

You are looking for something on a grander scale, then. I think those competent enough will tackle the problems closest to them. A prominent example would be Barkley (brother with adhd, I think). And, giving someone with uncommon ability treatment that allows them radical changes in output could have ripple-effects for everyone else.

There's also something else--how adhd is observed by non-adhd people. It could shed some light on other disorders, or just humans in general. Who's to say which is more useful: the observer, or the observed?

It's tempting to have an egocentric conception of how adhd can help others. Indirectly giving someone insight (being observed) can be just as potent as directly doing so, in my opinion.

janiew
12-22-13, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't say I'm in the gifted camp because ADHD can be too painful.

More like we have to make our own squares. We can't wait for the circles to do it for us.

So you use what you have to find your niche and at the same time remain true to yourself.

Finding a few similar or sympathetic people for emotional support is we need while me make our squares.

eclectic beagle
12-22-13, 02:29 PM
its malfunctions, specifically. This can lead to insight and empathy.

I was never more motivated to learn than when I thought something was wrong with me. I guess people deal with that in different ways.

tazoz
01-25-14, 09:47 AM
Looking at the images of the brain scans of those with ADHD, two things I see, that there is indeed less activity in the prefrontal cortex and that there is more activity in an area in the middle of the brain, which as far as I know has been ignored. I suspect that it's an area that is part of what is called the context network (Moshe Bar named the area.) that is responsible for contextual connections and formation of schemata. As the blind man develops better hearing it would make sense that those with an impaired ability to pay attention would develop some sort of extraordinary ability to help deal with the disability. How do you compensate for such a deficiency? By making the process of perception more efficient, by speeding up the brain functions that allow us to categorize objects, that allow us to create links between everything around us.

In the past it would have allowed us for example to be shamans as we would be more aware of the world around us and understand innately the patterns of movement of animals and also see the inner workings of people and understand how to help them. To expand on this, schemata are what we use to predict the future and the most likely outcome of events. Likewise, Shaman used divination to predict the future of the members of the tribe.